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ESO's overland content is too hard
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zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This, its also lots of calls for the craglorn normal trials, do all 3 for 15 crystals and some nice gear.MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think overland is fine as it is.
Yes it's drop dead easy for me with > max CP and yellow set gear, all skills and passives unlocked and some understanding of rotation but I see lowbies dying all the time to mobs in the base zones, so clearly it's not too easy for them.
Since bringing in and keeping new players are the lifeblood of the game, it can't be made harder.
But my point is, why does every zone need to be for lowbies?
When a new player starts the game, they'll usually play through the story in order. By the time they get to the DLC areas, they are in the CP levels.
Because there is no enforced order to play the story! The whole point of this being a TES game is that people can do the zones in whatever order they fancy. Plus, unless people do research and look up the intended story order, it's really, really easy to get sidetracked, since that intended story order is not always clearly defined in-game.
The game's devs made a deliberate choice to make all the zones equal and to fully support wander-in-any-direction questing rather than follow-this-roadmap questing. This is clear from both their design decisions and their public comments on the matter. And frankly, I think this is a perfectly fine model. I have no idea why you are so obsessed with your straightjacket roadmap model that few care for.
And you never replied to my earlier objection: Would a tripling of difficulty make a zone any less boring for you? If you really are a "MLG Pro Player" as your name would suggest, then I would expect that you would find a more difficult zone to be just as boring, only more tedious.
We had that once before, when Craglorn was "hard" and designed for groups. And as a solo player running around Craglorn, I had no problem killing anything I ran across and surviving whatever hazards there were. Was it harder than the regular zones? Sure. Did that make it a challenge? LOL, no. Was it fun? No. What it was, though, was a bloody nuisance on my Nirncrux circuit.
And I have no idea why you are so obsessed with having this be in the open world. There is a reason why the most difficult content is all locked behind private instances, because that's the only way to get the kind of controlled, restricted environment to make the challenge meaningful and to enable interesting mechanics. For example, soloing a DLC world boss is an overland activity that can be challenging and fun--that is, if you ever get a chance to. Even on the rare occasion that I am able to start a world boss solo, 90% of the time, a zerg will show up to mow it down before I'm done with it.
You want a challenge? Great, so do I. Go do the parts of the game that are designed for that. This strange obsession with converting the general overland into something that it was never meant to be is nonsensical.
I like RPGs. I like questing and exploring. I also like being challenged.
Adventuring in an RPG doesn't have to be easy. Dungeons and trials are such a small part of the game, and they don't have any exploration element to them.
The person you quoted, Code is correct. Offered a very good and rational explanation of why the game is how it is and why it will not change as you desire.
For the more challenging content Zos created instanced content. Starting with dungeons, vet dungeons and those that are interested and up for it there is the vet trials and vet HM trials.
I have said before, do the vet trials. Saying it is to much work to put together a 12 man team is an excuse. Join a raid guild and it become very easy. Since you are such a strong and experienced player I expect you will be able to get into a good raid guild.
Either way it is unlikely Zos will change any DLCs or create one to provide a stronger challenge to experienced players. They want to be able to sell the DLCs to everyone. It would be bad for business.
Now I would not mind if CWC had current craglorn difficulty. its not designed to be done by new low level players the same way normal dlc dungeons are not for them,
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think overland is fine as it is.
Yes it's drop dead easy for me with > max CP and yellow set gear, all skills and passives unlocked and some understanding of rotation but I see lowbies dying all the time to mobs in the base zones, so clearly it's not too easy for them.
Since bringing in and keeping new players are the lifeblood of the game, it can't be made harder.
But my point is, why does every zone need to be for lowbies?
When a new player starts the game, they'll usually play through the story in order. By the time they get to the DLC areas, they are in the CP levels.
Because there is no enforced order to play the story! The whole point of this being a TES game is that people can do the zones in whatever order they fancy. Plus, unless people do research and look up the intended story order, it's really, really easy to get sidetracked, since that intended story order is not always clearly defined in-game.
The game's devs made a deliberate choice to make all the zones equal and to fully support wander-in-any-direction questing rather than follow-this-roadmap questing. This is clear from both their design decisions and their public comments on the matter. And frankly, I think this is a perfectly fine model. I have no idea why you are so obsessed with your straightjacket roadmap model that few care for.
And you never replied to my earlier objection: Would a tripling of difficulty make a zone any less boring for you? If you really are a "MLG Pro Player" as your name would suggest, then I would expect that you would find a more difficult zone to be just as boring, only more tedious.
We had that once before, when Craglorn was "hard" and designed for groups. And as a solo player running around Craglorn, I had no problem killing anything I ran across and surviving whatever hazards there were. Was it harder than the regular zones? Sure. Did that make it a challenge? LOL, no. Was it fun? No. What it was, though, was a bloody nuisance on my Nirncrux circuit.
And I have no idea why you are so obsessed with having this be in the open world. There is a reason why the most difficult content is all locked behind private instances, because that's the only way to get the kind of controlled, restricted environment to make the challenge meaningful and to enable interesting mechanics. For example, soloing a DLC world boss is an overland activity that can be challenging and fun--that is, if you ever get a chance to. Even on the rare occasion that I am able to start a world boss solo, 90% of the time, a zerg will show up to mow it down before I'm done with it.
You want a challenge? Great, so do I. Go do the parts of the game that are designed for that. This strange obsession with converting the general overland into something that it was never meant to be is nonsensical.
I like RPGs. I like questing and exploring. I also like being challenged.
Adventuring in an RPG doesn't have to be easy. Dungeons and trials are such a small part of the game, and they don't have any exploration element to them.
The person you quoted, Code is correct. Offered a very good and rational explanation of why the game is how it is and why it will not change as you desire.
For the more challenging content Zos created instanced content. Starting with dungeons, vet dungeons and those that are interested and up for it there is the vet trials and vet HM trials.
I have said before, do the vet trials. Saying it is to much work to put together a 12 man team is an excuse. Join a raid guild and it become very easy. Since you are such a strong and experienced player I expect you will be able to get into a good raid guild.
Either way it is unlikely Zos will change any DLCs or create one to provide a stronger challenge to experienced players. They want to be able to sell the DLCs to everyone. It would be bad for business.
But once again you ignored my point: Trials don't offer any RPG gameplay. They are just short, linear instances.
I've also offered plenty of suggestions to make the overworld content more difficult without affecting other players.
Well, before your point is it was to much effort to find 12 players willing to go at it for 3 hours. Though I do not know would stop you from RPG in trials. I RPG a strong and skilled warrior in trials all the time.
Regardless, nothing is stopping you from RPG in the open world as it is. It does not need to be a significant challenge to RPG.
A core component of open world RPGs is exploration, as I mentioned. Exploration without challenge isn't fun.
No offense, but you kind of have an answer for everything. When one answer is turned upside down you change to another. When the difficulty of putting together a raid was negated it became this RPG thing.
I do not think you would be happy with anything. If they did increase the difficulty it would either not be enough for you or it would be to much.7 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think overland is fine as it is.
Yes it's drop dead easy for me with > max CP and yellow set gear, all skills and passives unlocked and some understanding of rotation but I see lowbies dying all the time to mobs in the base zones, so clearly it's not too easy for them.
Since bringing in and keeping new players are the lifeblood of the game, it can't be made harder.
But my point is, why does every zone need to be for lowbies?
When a new player starts the game, they'll usually play through the story in order. By the time they get to the DLC areas, they are in the CP levels.
Because there is no enforced order to play the story! The whole point of this being a TES game is that people can do the zones in whatever order they fancy. Plus, unless people do research and look up the intended story order, it's really, really easy to get sidetracked, since that intended story order is not always clearly defined in-game.
The game's devs made a deliberate choice to make all the zones equal and to fully support wander-in-any-direction questing rather than follow-this-roadmap questing. This is clear from both their design decisions and their public comments on the matter. And frankly, I think this is a perfectly fine model. I have no idea why you are so obsessed with your straightjacket roadmap model that few care for.
And you never replied to my earlier objection: Would a tripling of difficulty make a zone any less boring for you? If you really are a "MLG Pro Player" as your name would suggest, then I would expect that you would find a more difficult zone to be just as boring, only more tedious.
We had that once before, when Craglorn was "hard" and designed for groups. And as a solo player running around Craglorn, I had no problem killing anything I ran across and surviving whatever hazards there were. Was it harder than the regular zones? Sure. Did that make it a challenge? LOL, no. Was it fun? No. What it was, though, was a bloody nuisance on my Nirncrux circuit.
And I have no idea why you are so obsessed with having this be in the open world. There is a reason why the most difficult content is all locked behind private instances, because that's the only way to get the kind of controlled, restricted environment to make the challenge meaningful and to enable interesting mechanics. For example, soloing a DLC world boss is an overland activity that can be challenging and fun--that is, if you ever get a chance to. Even on the rare occasion that I am able to start a world boss solo, 90% of the time, a zerg will show up to mow it down before I'm done with it.
You want a challenge? Great, so do I. Go do the parts of the game that are designed for that. This strange obsession with converting the general overland into something that it was never meant to be is nonsensical.
I like RPGs. I like questing and exploring. I also like being challenged.
Adventuring in an RPG doesn't have to be easy. Dungeons and trials are such a small part of the game, and they don't have any exploration element to them.
The person you quoted, Code is correct. Offered a very good and rational explanation of why the game is how it is and why it will not change as you desire.
For the more challenging content Zos created instanced content. Starting with dungeons, vet dungeons and those that are interested and up for it there is the vet trials and vet HM trials.
I have said before, do the vet trials. Saying it is to much work to put together a 12 man team is an excuse. Join a raid guild and it become very easy. Since you are such a strong and experienced player I expect you will be able to get into a good raid guild.
Either way it is unlikely Zos will change any DLCs or create one to provide a stronger challenge to experienced players. They want to be able to sell the DLCs to everyone. It would be bad for business.
But once again you ignored my point: Trials don't offer any RPG gameplay. They are just short, linear instances.
I've also offered plenty of suggestions to make the overworld content more difficult without affecting other players.
Well, before your point is it was to much effort to find 12 players willing to go at it for 3 hours. Though I do not know would stop you from RPG in trials. I RPG a strong and skilled warrior in trials all the time.
Regardless, nothing is stopping you from RPG in the open world as it is. It does not need to be a significant challenge to RPG.
A core component of open world RPGs is exploration, as I mentioned. Exploration without challenge isn't fun.
No offense, but you kind of have an answer for everything. When one answer is turned upside down you change to another. When the difficulty of putting together a raid was negated it became this RPG thing.
I do not think you would be happy with anything. If they did increase the difficulty it would either not be enough for you or it would be to much.
Nothing has changed. This was my argument from the very first page.
Literally the fourth post on the first page:MLGProPlayer wrote: »Yes, exactly - overland is for low levels (with some possible exceptions), and vet trials are for end game. The other is for in between.
But that's not fair.
95% of the game is overland content. There are only 6 trials. Trials also take a ton of time to organize and can't happen on a whim (if you're not in a serious trials guild, you're lucky to complete 1-2 trials a week).
There is other end game content too, like vet dungeons, vDSA, and vMA, but again, that's just a drop in the bucket when it comes to the game's content. All the exploration and story telling happens in the overworld.
Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 27, 2017 6:01AM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think overland is fine as it is.
Yes it's drop dead easy for me with > max CP and yellow set gear, all skills and passives unlocked and some understanding of rotation but I see lowbies dying all the time to mobs in the base zones, so clearly it's not too easy for them.
Since bringing in and keeping new players are the lifeblood of the game, it can't be made harder.
But my point is, why does every zone need to be for lowbies?
When a new player starts the game, they'll usually play through the story in order. By the time they get to the DLC areas, they are in the CP levels.
Because there is no enforced order to play the story! The whole point of this being a TES game is that people can do the zones in whatever order they fancy. Plus, unless people do research and look up the intended story order, it's really, really easy to get sidetracked, since that intended story order is not always clearly defined in-game.
The game's devs made a deliberate choice to make all the zones equal and to fully support wander-in-any-direction questing rather than follow-this-roadmap questing. This is clear from both their design decisions and their public comments on the matter. And frankly, I think this is a perfectly fine model. I have no idea why you are so obsessed with your straightjacket roadmap model that few care for.
And you never replied to my earlier objection: Would a tripling of difficulty make a zone any less boring for you? If you really are a "MLG Pro Player" as your name would suggest, then I would expect that you would find a more difficult zone to be just as boring, only more tedious.
We had that once before, when Craglorn was "hard" and designed for groups. And as a solo player running around Craglorn, I had no problem killing anything I ran across and surviving whatever hazards there were. Was it harder than the regular zones? Sure. Did that make it a challenge? LOL, no. Was it fun? No. What it was, though, was a bloody nuisance on my Nirncrux circuit.
And I have no idea why you are so obsessed with having this be in the open world. There is a reason why the most difficult content is all locked behind private instances, because that's the only way to get the kind of controlled, restricted environment to make the challenge meaningful and to enable interesting mechanics. For example, soloing a DLC world boss is an overland activity that can be challenging and fun--that is, if you ever get a chance to. Even on the rare occasion that I am able to start a world boss solo, 90% of the time, a zerg will show up to mow it down before I'm done with it.
You want a challenge? Great, so do I. Go do the parts of the game that are designed for that. This strange obsession with converting the general overland into something that it was never meant to be is nonsensical.
I like RPGs. I like questing and exploring. I also like being challenged.
Adventuring in an RPG doesn't have to be easy. Dungeons and trials are such a small part of the game, and they don't have any exploration element to them.
The person you quoted, Code is correct. Offered a very good and rational explanation of why the game is how it is and why it will not change as you desire.
For the more challenging content Zos created instanced content. Starting with dungeons, vet dungeons and those that are interested and up for it there is the vet trials and vet HM trials.
I have said before, do the vet trials. Saying it is to much work to put together a 12 man team is an excuse. Join a raid guild and it become very easy. Since you are such a strong and experienced player I expect you will be able to get into a good raid guild.
Either way it is unlikely Zos will change any DLCs or create one to provide a stronger challenge to experienced players. They want to be able to sell the DLCs to everyone. It would be bad for business.
But once again you ignored my point: Trials don't offer any RPG gameplay. They are just short, linear instances.
I've also offered plenty of suggestions to make the overworld content more difficult without affecting other players.
Well, before your point is it was to much effort to find 12 players willing to go at it for 3 hours. Though I do not know would stop you from RPG in trials. I RPG a strong and skilled warrior in trials all the time.
Regardless, nothing is stopping you from RPG in the open world as it is. It does not need to be a significant challenge to RPG.
A core component of open world RPGs is exploration, as I mentioned. Exploration without challenge isn't fun.
No offense, but you kind of have an answer for everything. When one answer is turned upside down you change to another. When the difficulty of putting together a raid was negated it became this RPG thing.
I do not think you would be happy with anything. If they did increase the difficulty it would either not be enough for you or it would be to much.
Nothing has changed. This was my argument from the very first page.
Literally the fourth post on the first page:
Read your replies to me again.
Here, I will help with that. This is from page 6MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Just kidding. I see a lot of folks saying the game's overland content difficulty is "just right".
LOL. Yea, there is good HM content in the game for those of us that are interested in a challenge. Overland is not the place for it.
Yet overland is 95% of the game.
Running the same dungeons over and over again is boring. Vet players should be able to experience story content every now and then too.
@MLGProPlayer
Exactly. Considering it is probably much less than 5% of the game that has cleared all trial HMs (not including vAS HM0 it seems clear that overland is as it should be.
Good point.
Oh, and no one is holding back vet players from experiencing the story content. Nothing at all.
Vet trials require herculean organization skills. You need to make sure that 12 people can stay on the computer for a few hours as you work through the mechanics of the trial. That's why so few people run them. It's the same reason no one did group content in Craglorn (forming groups takes a lot of effort).
Stating it is to much work to deal with vet trials though that is incorrect since your example is merely progression for a group and really not a strong argument for someone wanting more challenge.
Then from Page 7 the reason the challenge for vet trials does not count is because you want RPG.MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think overland is fine as it is.
Yes it's drop dead easy for me with > max CP and yellow set gear, all skills and passives unlocked and some understanding of rotation but I see lowbies dying all the time to mobs in the base zones, so clearly it's not too easy for them.
Since bringing in and keeping new players are the lifeblood of the game, it can't be made harder.
But my point is, why does every zone need to be for lowbies?
When a new player starts the game, they'll usually play through the story in order. By the time they get to the DLC areas, they are in the CP levels.
Because there is no enforced order to play the story! The whole point of this being a TES game is that people can do the zones in whatever order they fancy. Plus, unless people do research and look up the intended story order, it's really, really easy to get sidetracked, since that intended story order is not always clearly defined in-game.
The game's devs made a deliberate choice to make all the zones equal and to fully support wander-in-any-direction questing rather than follow-this-roadmap questing. This is clear from both their design decisions and their public comments on the matter. And frankly, I think this is a perfectly fine model. I have no idea why you are so obsessed with your straightjacket roadmap model that few care for.
And you never replied to my earlier objection: Would a tripling of difficulty make a zone any less boring for you? If you really are a "MLG Pro Player" as your name would suggest, then I would expect that you would find a more difficult zone to be just as boring, only more tedious.
We had that once before, when Craglorn was "hard" and designed for groups. And as a solo player running around Craglorn, I had no problem killing anything I ran across and surviving whatever hazards there were. Was it harder than the regular zones? Sure. Did that make it a challenge? LOL, no. Was it fun? No. What it was, though, was a bloody nuisance on my Nirncrux circuit.
And I have no idea why you are so obsessed with having this be in the open world. There is a reason why the most difficult content is all locked behind private instances, because that's the only way to get the kind of controlled, restricted environment to make the challenge meaningful and to enable interesting mechanics. For example, soloing a DLC world boss is an overland activity that can be challenging and fun--that is, if you ever get a chance to. Even on the rare occasion that I am able to start a world boss solo, 90% of the time, a zerg will show up to mow it down before I'm done with it.
You want a challenge? Great, so do I. Go do the parts of the game that are designed for that. This strange obsession with converting the general overland into something that it was never meant to be is nonsensical.
I like RPGs. I like questing and exploring. I also like being challenged.
Adventuring in an RPG doesn't have to be easy. Dungeons and trials are such a small part of the game, and they don't have any exploration element to them.
The person you quoted, Code is correct. Offered a very good and rational explanation of why the game is how it is and why it will not change as you desire.
For the more challenging content Zos created instanced content. Starting with dungeons, vet dungeons and those that are interested and up for it there is the vet trials and vet HM trials.
I have said before, do the vet trials. Saying it is to much work to put together a 12 man team is an excuse. Join a raid guild and it become very easy. Since you are such a strong and experienced player I expect you will be able to get into a good raid guild.
Either way it is unlikely Zos will change any DLCs or create one to provide a stronger challenge to experienced players. They want to be able to sell the DLCs to everyone. It would be bad for business.
But once again you ignored my point: Trials don't offer any RPG gameplay. They are just short, linear instances.
Basically, you want short, linear open world RPG PvE challenge.
As I stated, your reasoning seems to be changing. If there were change I seriously doubt you would be pleased with it. Either it would still not be challenging enough to meet your desires or it will be to challenging for you.
Regardless, it will not happen for the very logical and rational reasoning that others have presented here. Again, if you want challenging content, vMA and vet trials, It will not be happening in the open world, period.
Edited by idk on December 27, 2017 6:34AM4 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think overland is fine as it is.
Yes it's drop dead easy for me with > max CP and yellow set gear, all skills and passives unlocked and some understanding of rotation but I see lowbies dying all the time to mobs in the base zones, so clearly it's not too easy for them.
Since bringing in and keeping new players are the lifeblood of the game, it can't be made harder.
But my point is, why does every zone need to be for lowbies?
When a new player starts the game, they'll usually play through the story in order. By the time they get to the DLC areas, they are in the CP levels.
Because there is no enforced order to play the story! The whole point of this being a TES game is that people can do the zones in whatever order they fancy. Plus, unless people do research and look up the intended story order, it's really, really easy to get sidetracked, since that intended story order is not always clearly defined in-game.
The game's devs made a deliberate choice to make all the zones equal and to fully support wander-in-any-direction questing rather than follow-this-roadmap questing. This is clear from both their design decisions and their public comments on the matter. And frankly, I think this is a perfectly fine model. I have no idea why you are so obsessed with your straightjacket roadmap model that few care for.
And you never replied to my earlier objection: Would a tripling of difficulty make a zone any less boring for you? If you really are a "MLG Pro Player" as your name would suggest, then I would expect that you would find a more difficult zone to be just as boring, only more tedious.
We had that once before, when Craglorn was "hard" and designed for groups. And as a solo player running around Craglorn, I had no problem killing anything I ran across and surviving whatever hazards there were. Was it harder than the regular zones? Sure. Did that make it a challenge? LOL, no. Was it fun? No. What it was, though, was a bloody nuisance on my Nirncrux circuit.
And I have no idea why you are so obsessed with having this be in the open world. There is a reason why the most difficult content is all locked behind private instances, because that's the only way to get the kind of controlled, restricted environment to make the challenge meaningful and to enable interesting mechanics. For example, soloing a DLC world boss is an overland activity that can be challenging and fun--that is, if you ever get a chance to. Even on the rare occasion that I am able to start a world boss solo, 90% of the time, a zerg will show up to mow it down before I'm done with it.
You want a challenge? Great, so do I. Go do the parts of the game that are designed for that. This strange obsession with converting the general overland into something that it was never meant to be is nonsensical.
I like RPGs. I like questing and exploring. I also like being challenged.
Adventuring in an RPG doesn't have to be easy. Dungeons and trials are such a small part of the game, and they don't have any exploration element to them.
The person you quoted, Code is correct. Offered a very good and rational explanation of why the game is how it is and why it will not change as you desire.
For the more challenging content Zos created instanced content. Starting with dungeons, vet dungeons and those that are interested and up for it there is the vet trials and vet HM trials.
I have said before, do the vet trials. Saying it is to much work to put together a 12 man team is an excuse. Join a raid guild and it become very easy. Since you are such a strong and experienced player I expect you will be able to get into a good raid guild.
Either way it is unlikely Zos will change any DLCs or create one to provide a stronger challenge to experienced players. They want to be able to sell the DLCs to everyone. It would be bad for business.
But once again you ignored my point: Trials don't offer any RPG gameplay. They are just short, linear instances.
I've also offered plenty of suggestions to make the overworld content more difficult without affecting other players.
Well, before your point is it was to much effort to find 12 players willing to go at it for 3 hours. Though I do not know would stop you from RPG in trials. I RPG a strong and skilled warrior in trials all the time.
Regardless, nothing is stopping you from RPG in the open world as it is. It does not need to be a significant challenge to RPG.
A core component of open world RPGs is exploration, as I mentioned. Exploration without challenge isn't fun.
No offense, but you kind of have an answer for everything. When one answer is turned upside down you change to another. When the difficulty of putting together a raid was negated it became this RPG thing.
I do not think you would be happy with anything. If they did increase the difficulty it would either not be enough for you or it would be to much.
Nothing has changed. This was my argument from the very first page.
Literally the fourth post on the first page:
Read your replies to me again.
Here, I will help with that. This is from page 6MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Just kidding. I see a lot of folks saying the game's overland content difficulty is "just right".
LOL. Yea, there is good HM content in the game for those of us that are interested in a challenge. Overland is not the place for it.
Yet overland is 95% of the game.
Running the same dungeons over and over again is boring. Vet players should be able to experience story content every now and then too.
@MLGProPlayer
Exactly. Considering it is probably much less than 5% of the game that has cleared all trial HMs (not including vAS HM0 it seems clear that overland is as it should be.
Good point.
Oh, and no one is holding back vet players from experiencing the story content. Nothing at all.
Vet trials require herculean organization skills. You need to make sure that 12 people can stay on the computer for a few hours as you work through the mechanics of the trial. That's why so few people run them. It's the same reason no one did group content in Craglorn (forming groups takes a lot of effort).
Stating it is to much work to deal with vet trials though that is incorrect since your example is merely progression for a group and really not a strong argument for someone wanting more challenge.
Then from Page 7 the reason the challenge for vet trials does not count is because you want RPG.MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think overland is fine as it is.
Yes it's drop dead easy for me with > max CP and yellow set gear, all skills and passives unlocked and some understanding of rotation but I see lowbies dying all the time to mobs in the base zones, so clearly it's not too easy for them.
Since bringing in and keeping new players are the lifeblood of the game, it can't be made harder.
But my point is, why does every zone need to be for lowbies?
When a new player starts the game, they'll usually play through the story in order. By the time they get to the DLC areas, they are in the CP levels.
Because there is no enforced order to play the story! The whole point of this being a TES game is that people can do the zones in whatever order they fancy. Plus, unless people do research and look up the intended story order, it's really, really easy to get sidetracked, since that intended story order is not always clearly defined in-game.
The game's devs made a deliberate choice to make all the zones equal and to fully support wander-in-any-direction questing rather than follow-this-roadmap questing. This is clear from both their design decisions and their public comments on the matter. And frankly, I think this is a perfectly fine model. I have no idea why you are so obsessed with your straightjacket roadmap model that few care for.
And you never replied to my earlier objection: Would a tripling of difficulty make a zone any less boring for you? If you really are a "MLG Pro Player" as your name would suggest, then I would expect that you would find a more difficult zone to be just as boring, only more tedious.
We had that once before, when Craglorn was "hard" and designed for groups. And as a solo player running around Craglorn, I had no problem killing anything I ran across and surviving whatever hazards there were. Was it harder than the regular zones? Sure. Did that make it a challenge? LOL, no. Was it fun? No. What it was, though, was a bloody nuisance on my Nirncrux circuit.
And I have no idea why you are so obsessed with having this be in the open world. There is a reason why the most difficult content is all locked behind private instances, because that's the only way to get the kind of controlled, restricted environment to make the challenge meaningful and to enable interesting mechanics. For example, soloing a DLC world boss is an overland activity that can be challenging and fun--that is, if you ever get a chance to. Even on the rare occasion that I am able to start a world boss solo, 90% of the time, a zerg will show up to mow it down before I'm done with it.
You want a challenge? Great, so do I. Go do the parts of the game that are designed for that. This strange obsession with converting the general overland into something that it was never meant to be is nonsensical.
I like RPGs. I like questing and exploring. I also like being challenged.
Adventuring in an RPG doesn't have to be easy. Dungeons and trials are such a small part of the game, and they don't have any exploration element to them.
The person you quoted, Code is correct. Offered a very good and rational explanation of why the game is how it is and why it will not change as you desire.
For the more challenging content Zos created instanced content. Starting with dungeons, vet dungeons and those that are interested and up for it there is the vet trials and vet HM trials.
I have said before, do the vet trials. Saying it is to much work to put together a 12 man team is an excuse. Join a raid guild and it become very easy. Since you are such a strong and experienced player I expect you will be able to get into a good raid guild.
Either way it is unlikely Zos will change any DLCs or create one to provide a stronger challenge to experienced players. They want to be able to sell the DLCs to everyone. It would be bad for business.
But once again you ignored my point: Trials don't offer any RPG gameplay. They are just short, linear instances.
Basically, you want short, linear open world RPG PvE challenge.
As I stated, your reasoning seems to be changing. If there were change I seriously doubt you would be pleased with it. Either it would still not be challenging enough to meet your desires or it will be to challenging for you.
Regardless, it will not happen for the very logical and rational reasoning that others have presented here. Again, if you want challenging content, vMA and vet trials, It will not be happening in the open world, period.
Did you miss the post I quoted? Page 1, post 4. That was my original argument. Nothing changed.
You're literally creating a strawman.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 27, 2017 6:57AM1 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭My theory is that MMOs are full of new age kids who think everything should be "accessible", but then again this is my first and only MMO.
The overworld is too easy even with no CP. There should at least be some mix of the past and new level scaling. Best case scenario is that they add difficulties to choose from WHERE THE ENEMIES DON'T JUST HAVE MORE HP AND DEAL MORE DAMAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....... but where their chance to block, dodge, reposition, and bash is increased.𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ain't gonna happen. For every endgame player that's just steamrolling thru the overland there are tons of newish players struggling just to take down a 3 man mob with 30k health each. I witness this on a constant basis.
How would even adding in an option be beneficial for Zos? It would only be a matter of time before the very same folks who are clamoring for these changes abandoned these zones because once again given enough time that content would no longer be challenging and just tedious.
I mean seriously, best case scenario is them simply buffing the npc's health making them boring damage sponges or nerf everyone. Will more nerfs make you lot happy? The most telling motivation to me is the required "added bonuses". So this really isn't about challenging oneself, it's about gaining access to more powerful gear and lame ass bragging rights.
The reward is accomplishing something few others have done, but of course no one else will know this without a title or visual sign, right? Bottom line, if this was truly about challenge these folks would simply nerf themselves. Anything other than that incentive tells me it's about getting better loot or bragging rights.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway6 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Whilst waiting for a boss respawn in a public dungeon the other day, someone had obviously parked their lvl 33 toon waiting on the respawn too. I stood there for about 3mins watching a single trash mob enemy hack away at him. The guy's health regen all but negated the npc's damage output. After 3mins the guy had come back from whatever he was doing and carried on as normal. It's kind of farcical tbh.
Just wait for next eso event...now I see benefits of invorgorating....p.s all boots will be using ozorgo soon.0 -
Madamova✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Yes, exactly - overland is for low levels (with some possible exceptions), and vet trials are for end game. The other is for in between.
But that's not fair.
95% of the game is overland content. There are only 6 trials. Trials also take a ton of time to organize and can't happen on a whim (if you're not in a serious trials guild, you're lucky to complete 1-2 trials a week).
There is other end game content too, like vet dungeons, vDSA, and vMA, but again, that's just a drop in the bucket when it comes to the game's content. All the exploration and story telling happens in the overworld.
Hm hm... And now why don't you go and stand next to one of the numerous overland world bosses and see how long it's going to take for you to die...
I say there is plenty of challenging overland content, you are just pulling the straws5 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭people be fair!
I see often enough other (new) players hacking and battling around NPC-enemies, that don´t even bother me.
But they have a hard time and enjoying that as it is hard for them to do so.
If you are new it is hard here.
but I liked in the old days the concept of WoW more were you had zones for distinct lvl´s, and that was more challenging for
a progress oriented player.
but yeah for 95% of the new players it is challenge enough to work about an npc for 10 minutes, and that is not a boss(!)1 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Before 1T, zones were level specific. Go too far into even the starting zone and you were hitting content above your level that you may or may not be able to complete.
Personally, I hated it. It was the absolute counter to my wander, free spirit approach to the game. I couldn't just travel in whatever direction I wanted and do quests along the way because the game wanted me to do a very linear approach. I left and didn't come back until after 1T.
I have 2 characters above cp160. Only 1 has finished the second zone in her alliance, but she's still on the 3rd. The one who is still in Deshaan has done all the TG, DB, and CWC PVE content. The quest givers showed up in the den and the bank and the mages guild and I just bumbled along because, hey, why not.
What it seems like is people want to go back to pre-1T. Which is clearly the opposite direction of what ZOS wants/intends.
Again, I'm for some kind of personal player-specific debuff that doesn't affect anyone else and can be chosen at will. But changing things for everyone or locking entire zones for elite players is definitely a no for me.
PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS6 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭people be fair!
I see often enough other (new) players hacking and battling around NPC-enemies, that don´t even bother me.
But they have a hard time and enjoying that as it is hard for them to do so.
If you are new it is hard here.
but I liked in the old days the concept of WoW more were you had zones for distinct lvl´s, and that was more challenging for
a progress oriented player.
but yeah for 95% of the new players it is challenge enough to work about an npc for 10 minutes, and that is not a boss(!)
Well when they do nothing but light attack....then they should die to be fair....1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think overland is fine as it is.
Yes it's drop dead easy for me with > max CP and yellow set gear, all skills and passives unlocked and some understanding of rotation but I see lowbies dying all the time to mobs in the base zones, so clearly it's not too easy for them.
Since bringing in and keeping new players are the lifeblood of the game, it can't be made harder.
But my point is, why does every zone need to be for lowbies?
When a new player starts the game, they'll usually play through the story in order. By the time they get to the DLC areas, they are in the CP levels.
Because there is no enforced order to play the story! The whole point of this being a TES game is that people can do the zones in whatever order they fancy. Plus, unless people do research and look up the intended story order, it's really, really easy to get sidetracked, since that intended story order is not always clearly defined in-game.
The game's devs made a deliberate choice to make all the zones equal and to fully support wander-in-any-direction questing rather than follow-this-roadmap questing. This is clear from both their design decisions and their public comments on the matter. And frankly, I think this is a perfectly fine model. I have no idea why you are so obsessed with your straightjacket roadmap model that few care for.
And you never replied to my earlier objection: Would a tripling of difficulty make a zone any less boring for you? If you really are a "MLG Pro Player" as your name would suggest, then I would expect that you would find a more difficult zone to be just as boring, only more tedious.
We had that once before, when Craglorn was "hard" and designed for groups. And as a solo player running around Craglorn, I had no problem killing anything I ran across and surviving whatever hazards there were. Was it harder than the regular zones? Sure. Did that make it a challenge? LOL, no. Was it fun? No. What it was, though, was a bloody nuisance on my Nirncrux circuit.
And I have no idea why you are so obsessed with having this be in the open world. There is a reason why the most difficult content is all locked behind private instances, because that's the only way to get the kind of controlled, restricted environment to make the challenge meaningful and to enable interesting mechanics. For example, soloing a DLC world boss is an overland activity that can be challenging and fun--that is, if you ever get a chance to. Even on the rare occasion that I am able to start a world boss solo, 90% of the time, a zerg will show up to mow it down before I'm done with it.
You want a challenge? Great, so do I. Go do the parts of the game that are designed for that. This strange obsession with converting the general overland into something that it was never meant to be is nonsensical.
I like RPGs. I like questing and exploring. I also like being challenged.
Adventuring in an RPG doesn't have to be easy. Dungeons and trials are such a small part of the game, and they don't have any exploration element to them.
The person you quoted, Code is correct. Offered a very good and rational explanation of why the game is how it is and why it will not change as you desire.
For the more challenging content Zos created instanced content. Starting with dungeons, vet dungeons and those that are interested and up for it there is the vet trials and vet HM trials.
I have said before, do the vet trials. Saying it is to much work to put together a 12 man team is an excuse. Join a raid guild and it become very easy. Since you are such a strong and experienced player I expect you will be able to get into a good raid guild.
Either way it is unlikely Zos will change any DLCs or create one to provide a stronger challenge to experienced players. They want to be able to sell the DLCs to everyone. It would be bad for business.
But once again you ignored my point: Trials don't offer any RPG gameplay. They are just short, linear instances.
I've also offered plenty of suggestions to make the overworld content more difficult without affecting other players.
Well, before your point is it was to much effort to find 12 players willing to go at it for 3 hours. Though I do not know would stop you from RPG in trials. I RPG a strong and skilled warrior in trials all the time.
Regardless, nothing is stopping you from RPG in the open world as it is. It does not need to be a significant challenge to RPG.
A core component of open world RPGs is exploration, as I mentioned. Exploration without challenge isn't fun.
No offense, but you kind of have an answer for everything. When one answer is turned upside down you change to another. When the difficulty of putting together a raid was negated it became this RPG thing.
I do not think you would be happy with anything. If they did increase the difficulty it would either not be enough for you or it would be to much.
Nothing has changed. This was my argument from the very first page.
Literally the fourth post on the first page:
Read your replies to me again.
Here, I will help with that. This is from page 6MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Just kidding. I see a lot of folks saying the game's overland content difficulty is "just right".
LOL. Yea, there is good HM content in the game for those of us that are interested in a challenge. Overland is not the place for it.
Yet overland is 95% of the game.
Running the same dungeons over and over again is boring. Vet players should be able to experience story content every now and then too.
@MLGProPlayer
Exactly. Considering it is probably much less than 5% of the game that has cleared all trial HMs (not including vAS HM0 it seems clear that overland is as it should be.
Good point.
Oh, and no one is holding back vet players from experiencing the story content. Nothing at all.
Vet trials require herculean organization skills. You need to make sure that 12 people can stay on the computer for a few hours as you work through the mechanics of the trial. That's why so few people run them. It's the same reason no one did group content in Craglorn (forming groups takes a lot of effort).
Stating it is to much work to deal with vet trials though that is incorrect since your example is merely progression for a group and really not a strong argument for someone wanting more challenge.
Then from Page 7 the reason the challenge for vet trials does not count is because you want RPG.MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think overland is fine as it is.
Yes it's drop dead easy for me with > max CP and yellow set gear, all skills and passives unlocked and some understanding of rotation but I see lowbies dying all the time to mobs in the base zones, so clearly it's not too easy for them.
Since bringing in and keeping new players are the lifeblood of the game, it can't be made harder.
But my point is, why does every zone need to be for lowbies?
When a new player starts the game, they'll usually play through the story in order. By the time they get to the DLC areas, they are in the CP levels.
Because there is no enforced order to play the story! The whole point of this being a TES game is that people can do the zones in whatever order they fancy. Plus, unless people do research and look up the intended story order, it's really, really easy to get sidetracked, since that intended story order is not always clearly defined in-game.
The game's devs made a deliberate choice to make all the zones equal and to fully support wander-in-any-direction questing rather than follow-this-roadmap questing. This is clear from both their design decisions and their public comments on the matter. And frankly, I think this is a perfectly fine model. I have no idea why you are so obsessed with your straightjacket roadmap model that few care for.
And you never replied to my earlier objection: Would a tripling of difficulty make a zone any less boring for you? If you really are a "MLG Pro Player" as your name would suggest, then I would expect that you would find a more difficult zone to be just as boring, only more tedious.
We had that once before, when Craglorn was "hard" and designed for groups. And as a solo player running around Craglorn, I had no problem killing anything I ran across and surviving whatever hazards there were. Was it harder than the regular zones? Sure. Did that make it a challenge? LOL, no. Was it fun? No. What it was, though, was a bloody nuisance on my Nirncrux circuit.
And I have no idea why you are so obsessed with having this be in the open world. There is a reason why the most difficult content is all locked behind private instances, because that's the only way to get the kind of controlled, restricted environment to make the challenge meaningful and to enable interesting mechanics. For example, soloing a DLC world boss is an overland activity that can be challenging and fun--that is, if you ever get a chance to. Even on the rare occasion that I am able to start a world boss solo, 90% of the time, a zerg will show up to mow it down before I'm done with it.
You want a challenge? Great, so do I. Go do the parts of the game that are designed for that. This strange obsession with converting the general overland into something that it was never meant to be is nonsensical.
I like RPGs. I like questing and exploring. I also like being challenged.
Adventuring in an RPG doesn't have to be easy. Dungeons and trials are such a small part of the game, and they don't have any exploration element to them.
The person you quoted, Code is correct. Offered a very good and rational explanation of why the game is how it is and why it will not change as you desire.
For the more challenging content Zos created instanced content. Starting with dungeons, vet dungeons and those that are interested and up for it there is the vet trials and vet HM trials.
I have said before, do the vet trials. Saying it is to much work to put together a 12 man team is an excuse. Join a raid guild and it become very easy. Since you are such a strong and experienced player I expect you will be able to get into a good raid guild.
Either way it is unlikely Zos will change any DLCs or create one to provide a stronger challenge to experienced players. They want to be able to sell the DLCs to everyone. It would be bad for business.
But once again you ignored my point: Trials don't offer any RPG gameplay. They are just short, linear instances.
Basically, you want short, linear open world RPG PvE challenge.
As I stated, your reasoning seems to be changing. If there were change I seriously doubt you would be pleased with it. Either it would still not be challenging enough to meet your desires or it will be to challenging for you.
Regardless, it will not happen for the very logical and rational reasoning that others have presented here. Again, if you want challenging content, vMA and vet trials, It will not be happening in the open world, period.
Did you miss the post I quoted? Page 1, post 4. That was my original argument. Nothing changed.
You're literally creating a strawman.
Not at all. I am merely pointing out your excuse for not doing the more challenging content in the game has changed when the original excuse was pointed out to be empty.
You may call it a strawman, but it is clearly not a misrepresentation at all. Again, regardless, your oppion will likely not lead to changes in overworld content because it is not good for the game overall. Take your armor off if you want more challenge out there.3 -
Sadetius✭✭✭Hello,
I haven't been playing ESO since a long while (quit with 3-4 other friends due to lack of challenge while questing). However I still lurk the forums from time to time, in order to see if any changes were made that would make me and my friends come back.
I see these kinds of threads popping up periodically, which is good for me and like minded people. As it shows that there is at least a recurring portion of players who desire additional challenge/difficulty in the over world; which in turn might increase chances of changes occurring in the game.
The flip side is though, that these threads always end up in a screaming competition between both sides. And the debate seems to always go towards the reasons why some players prefer more difficult or easy content.
It is safe to say "different folks different strokes". Players have different reasons for playing games, as demonstrated in a research by Nicole Lazzaro named : " Why We Play Games" , source
There is 'Hard Fun' and 'Easy Fun', needless to say some player enjoy one or the other. And there is nothing wrong with being on one or the other side, we all have different preferences.
The problem is, as others mentioned is that questing and the over world are a huge bulk of the content. And while there are dungeons and trials this is only a small fraction of the content. And running that small percentage of content ad nauseam isn't really fun.
The Problem is while frustration is definitely a factor for players to abandon a game, so is boredom.
Don't forget the flow theory .
The other fun thing is that frustration can actually lead to heightened immersion and a better emotional engagement : Source. Now it is important though that the research paper does make a distinction between negative and positive frustration. Nonetheless it is a important factor that might significantly increase player enjoyment in a game.
I don't there is much more needed to be said about why some players prefer 'hard fun'. Now to the practical issue at hand, I definitely think the compromise lies within in creating some sort difficulty option. I personally favor the option for separate over world instances. And yes while it would split player population to some degree, I think having a smaller player population in an instance could have its advantages, reduced server strain, a more immersive experience in the wilderness, and it would not affect the players that prefer the 'Easy Fun'. Additionally it might even reduce the clashes between more causal and hardcore players in dungeons, trials and other activities
in addition with separate instances more interesting things can be done in creating difficulty and challenge. And while it would take up some resources in making it, a lot can be done efficiently by tuning certain statistics like : enemy attack timings, attack patterns, and abilities. Quite a lot be done when reusing assets, and tweaking certain statistics.
And PVP and city zones can still remain to be shared instances.
I think the main question is "does the current back end infrastructure support this?". I have no idea what the back end and server setup looks like at ZOS.
Now in aspect of rewards, Personally I don't really care for additional rewards, I just want to be able to go on adventures with my friends and tell tales of how we fought our way through the most precarious situations
. However I do understand that some player would want some form of extra rewards. I think increasing the drop rates for cosmetic motifs would be a good solution as other players won't be forced to play on the higher difficulty to get certain gear.
Now I think we all want to enjoy the game, I love the ES series I still player Skyrim up till this day. However I just cannot play ESO since I hit that boredom wall so fast. There is nothing worse, while being immersed in a quest, and being told that I have to be careful for the dangerous spider queen, and then proceeding to kill said spider queen with little to no effort. While this might not be a problem for the 'Easy Fun' players it does ruin the experience and immersion for the ' Hard Fun' players.
I would really love to see optional difficulty options being included in ESO, I already at least 5 friends who would jump back in immediately. It would also make ESO a really unique beast that really caters to all kinds of play styles
.
Now for all the other ' Hard Fun' players, the bad news is all the other MMOs have the same issue, 90% of the content is faceroll; I've looked, I've tried and it is basically all the same all around. Now the good news is though that the current in development MMOs, seem to want to do things differently (Ashes of Creation, Pantheon Rise of the Fallen, Chronicles of Elyria etc.), and provide steeper difficulty curves and increased difficulty and challenge all around. The bad news again though is that it will at least take another 1-2 years before they are finished sadly.
in closing I want to refer to a quote from Gamasutra by John Harris, while it does not hold for all player types, I think the 'Hard Fun' players have definitely encountered this issue frequently :
" However, it's reached the point where "adventuring" in an RPG rarely feels risky. Gaining experience is supposed to carry the risk of harm and failure. Without that risk, gaining power becomes a foregone conclusion.
It has reached the point where the mere act of spending time playing the game appears to give players the right to have their characters become more powerful. The obstacles that provide experience become simply an arbitrary wall to scale before more power is granted; this, in a nutshell, is the type of play that has brought us grind, where the journey is simple and boring and the destination is something to be raced to.
Edited by Sadetius on December 27, 2017 1:55PM3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Sadetius
Many of those who have disagreed with OP are interested in challenging content. We go to that challenging content in the game.
What differs us from OP is we understand the reasoning of why different content is designed as it is and understand how we can choose to make other content more challenging if we choose.
We haven't engaged in a shouting match as you seem to state but have merely pointed out the fallacies of OPs argument.
Everyone is entitled to their oppinions but some oppinions have a more solid basis than others. That's were the difference here lies.8 -
GabaloSoul Shriven@Sadetius
Great comment! I also have 3 friends that left the game because of the lack of challenge, where they did quests and adventuring all day long and never got under 50% health. And even if for some odd reason they would die, it only took 1 cheap gem and like 10 seconds to revive.
Note these were completely new players to the game. No CP, no builds knowledge (apart from the casual advice I gave them).
I don't know where has anyone seen a new player fight furiously against a mob. I haven't. Except for world bosses (props to that! Those actually give a lot of fun to the game).
@idk
Yes, there is hard and very hard content in the game. And you can make it even harder if you don't go BiS, things like that.
But as someone mentioned above, the hard content is very limited. Vet dungeons, trials and like half of the normal dungeons, and that I think is the main topic of this post.
For me, it's a shame that ZoS made such a great map, incredibly big and with many cool places to explore (waterfalls, deserts, mountains, etc..) but then took away all the challenge and fun in exploring it. It's basically only sight-seeing now, with a couple of tedious wolfs behind you taking 1% of your health bar per second.
And yes, say what you want but a 12-people functioning group IS hard to form.
What is the solution?
I don't think a 'difficulty slider' would work.
Definitely, ZoS won't go back to pre-1T.
I think it would be nice to have all regions accessible to everyone, BUT in each region have different difficulties. That way, both me (CP500) and a level 20 newcomer, could visit Eastmarch, for example. But then lets say there's a village in Eastmarch with ugly trolls which hit very hard with a hidden chest at the end. I could prepare get some potions and clear that up by myself with some challenge. The newcomer could still figure his way to the chest, sneaking or something. Or he could gather a team of 5 newcomers and have a hard time killing the trolls but still make it. Then they would return to their tavern to drink beer and tell stories on how they cleared the village and only loosing one friend in the way. And when they want easy stuff, they could go to the other many areas in the map.
This actually exists, in some way, with Skyreach. It's one of the very few places where I would try to get to the final chest with my level 30 toon and die. We could have more places like this, not necessarily being instances.
PD: The OP has many communication flaws (as I may do with this comment), but you shouldn't focus on bashing him for those, just try to get the main idea of the post and comment on that.
Edit: typosEdited by Gabalo on December 27, 2017 6:59PM0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This, its also lots of calls for the craglorn normal trials, do all 3 for 15 crystals and some nice gear.MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think overland is fine as it is.
Yes it's drop dead easy for me with > max CP and yellow set gear, all skills and passives unlocked and some understanding of rotation but I see lowbies dying all the time to mobs in the base zones, so clearly it's not too easy for them.
Since bringing in and keeping new players are the lifeblood of the game, it can't be made harder.
But my point is, why does every zone need to be for lowbies?
When a new player starts the game, they'll usually play through the story in order. By the time they get to the DLC areas, they are in the CP levels.
Because there is no enforced order to play the story! The whole point of this being a TES game is that people can do the zones in whatever order they fancy. Plus, unless people do research and look up the intended story order, it's really, really easy to get sidetracked, since that intended story order is not always clearly defined in-game.
The game's devs made a deliberate choice to make all the zones equal and to fully support wander-in-any-direction questing rather than follow-this-roadmap questing. This is clear from both their design decisions and their public comments on the matter. And frankly, I think this is a perfectly fine model. I have no idea why you are so obsessed with your straightjacket roadmap model that few care for.
And you never replied to my earlier objection: Would a tripling of difficulty make a zone any less boring for you? If you really are a "MLG Pro Player" as your name would suggest, then I would expect that you would find a more difficult zone to be just as boring, only more tedious.
We had that once before, when Craglorn was "hard" and designed for groups. And as a solo player running around Craglorn, I had no problem killing anything I ran across and surviving whatever hazards there were. Was it harder than the regular zones? Sure. Did that make it a challenge? LOL, no. Was it fun? No. What it was, though, was a bloody nuisance on my Nirncrux circuit.
And I have no idea why you are so obsessed with having this be in the open world. There is a reason why the most difficult content is all locked behind private instances, because that's the only way to get the kind of controlled, restricted environment to make the challenge meaningful and to enable interesting mechanics. For example, soloing a DLC world boss is an overland activity that can be challenging and fun--that is, if you ever get a chance to. Even on the rare occasion that I am able to start a world boss solo, 90% of the time, a zerg will show up to mow it down before I'm done with it.
You want a challenge? Great, so do I. Go do the parts of the game that are designed for that. This strange obsession with converting the general overland into something that it was never meant to be is nonsensical.
I like RPGs. I like questing and exploring. I also like being challenged.
Adventuring in an RPG doesn't have to be easy. Dungeons and trials are such a small part of the game, and they don't have any exploration element to them.
The person you quoted, Code is correct. Offered a very good and rational explanation of why the game is how it is and why it will not change as you desire.
For the more challenging content Zos created instanced content. Starting with dungeons, vet dungeons and those that are interested and up for it there is the vet trials and vet HM trials.
I have said before, do the vet trials. Saying it is to much work to put together a 12 man team is an excuse. Join a raid guild and it become very easy. Since you are such a strong and experienced player I expect you will be able to get into a good raid guild.
Either way it is unlikely Zos will change any DLCs or create one to provide a stronger challenge to experienced players. They want to be able to sell the DLCs to everyone. It would be bad for business.
Now I would not mind if CWC had current craglorn difficulty. its not designed to be done by new low level players the same way normal dlc dungeons are not for them,
Firstly, it'd make it tedious and boring.
Secondly, yes it is designed for new players to get into. Or new -characters- to get into.
What people are overlooking is that sometimes people who roll up alts do Orsinium or something like that -first-, because they like the writing better and find it more fun. And there's nothing -wrong- with that.
You only think there is.
[Edit to remove profanity]Edited by [Deleted User] on December 27, 2017 9:32PM0 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Overland content is excessively easy to the detriment of the game as a whole. At minimum the damage by mobs and health of mobs should get a 10% - 15% increase across the board.1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Quests are a chore, instead of an adventure, especially since one tamerial.
I miss the days where you fight a murcrab in s life or death match
1 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My theory is that MMOs are full of new age kids who think everything should be "accessible", but then again this is my first and only MMO.
The overworld is too easy even with no CP. There should at least be some mix of the past and new level scaling. Best case scenario is that they add difficulties to choose from WHERE THE ENEMIES DON'T JUST HAVE MORE HP AND DEAL MORE DAMAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....... but where their chance to block, dodge, reposition, and bash is increased.
Your theory is faulty and doesnt even come close to reality. Most gamers are men 18 to 35 and women 40 and above. Meaning most gamers are adults with adult responsibilities and time consuming activities like work and family. The reason there is this shift from "everything has to be time consuming and extremely difficult to accomplish" to "I would like to enjoy myself but still feel rewarded for my time". Is because adults dont want to spend the 1 maybe 2 hours they have here and there getting absolutely no where in a video game they play for fun.
If you want difficulty, if you want punishment there are games like Dark Souls out there for you.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Gabalo
Yes the hardest content is limited. Considering somewhere between 1% and 5% if the game has cleared all the vet HM trials (not including vAS since it's so new) it seems the content is sufficient.
It's really a great design. Having instances content of varying difficulty levels as they do and is pretty much the common. MMORPG in this era.
More to the point, OP doesn't even try To tackle the challenging content. He has commented in here it's to much effort. He also added that he cannot RPG it as he wants to RPG.
Again, take your armor off and open world becomes more challenging. Considering that is the the only option I'd suggest those interested in open work challenge do it. OPs idea is young no where.Edited by idk on December 27, 2017 8:39PM0 -
Bryanonymous✭✭✭✭✭Not just armor. Respect and make a hybrid build with both resource abilities on your bars. That will also be more challenging too.
Let’s recap:
1. Remove armor.
2. Use a hybrid.
3. Remove champion points.
4. Turn the UI off.
5. ???
6. Profit!Edited by Bryanonymous on December 27, 2017 8:41PM0 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.Edited by martinhpb16_ESO on December 27, 2017 8:44PMAt least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*2 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »He's spot on about this.
It's far too easy. Find it truly concerning that anyone thinks it's "just right".
Well, brace yourself because a lot of us are pretty content.
Not all of us are young, quick and into adrenaline rushes. Some of us enjoy a more moderate experience.
I think there should be an option, though, for those who crave the challenge but I do NOT think it (increased difficulty) should be "across the board". Too many would leave and we don't want that.
I'm notyoung,and am stoned all the time.Still prefer elevated difficulty.
Im in my 50s and the overland content is way too easy for me. Suited more to under 12's rather than adults.At least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*6 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »I've stopped playing overland its just not worth it. I gave up on the last 3 DLC etc because it was so easy and therefore, for me meh.
This is a real shame as one of he reasons I came to this game from LOTRO was that ESO had decent, varied,overland content.
Sadly ESO has gone for the lowest common denominator on its overland difficulty levels. I miss adventuring in tamriel.
Overland content is now like farming for mats.
If the difficulty is what kept you engaged, I'm not sorry the game has lost you.
Because in this respect, the game has changed for the better. If they got they're head out of they're tookus, and started designing something where classes had nuance, or multiple setups worked, we might actually be able to get closer to what brought you into the series.
The problem, here, is the game simply isn't good enough to be difficult, while being fun. Time and again it's shown this. When it is difficult, it tends to be because of mechanical overload. Rather than a test of skill or speed, or build. The closest is Maelstrom. (Which I will continue to call a test of your ability to memorize enemy spawns and your DPS until the day I die.) Which is damn near abandoned.
People keep expecting this game to become dark souls. It's not good enough to be dark souls. Or even anything else close to it.
I have yet to see one person argue it should be dark souls difficulty, and I would welcome some proof of your assumptions.2
