OP, Craglorn was once an "adventure zone," where mobs were larger — six to eight per mob — and each member of said mob hit three to six times harder than mobs in other zones. Same held true for Craglorn's world bosses.

Craglorn was also mostly abandoned by the player base during this time. Why? Because it had a reputation, and the majority of the game's players avoided it, rather than plunge into the "adventure zone" to face a long slog to completing quest lines there (many of which required *multiple* players to complete).

In those days, the only people you found in Craglorn were the nirncrux hunters and gluttons for punishment. Sometimes they were one and the same (me!).

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Dude, youre an end game build, your opinion on the matter is biased, no matter what skills or buffs you dont use.

We need non champ players in here giving their 2 cents.

That's my point. Why shouldn't endgame players be able to enjoy overland content too?

Because they are relatively few and therefore sit on relatively small bag of money. At the same time, while ZOS tries hard to turn game into a treadmill where players would have to work not to have more power, but the same power at the next level, powercreep is still there, levelled up chracters still have more power and therefore it is impossible to adjust difficulty of the same, shared overland content for players with different amount of power (let alone skill). They would have to add layer of bonuses/penalties, that would cause endgame players to do less damage to and receive more damage from the same, shared monster.
So, when they have to decide the difficulty level of a new DLC, they set it to autoplaying level to please players who sit on the largest bag of money instead.

EDIT: besides, generally, content has to sell, not necessarily amuse. It it contains some new OP items...or classes...endgame players will buy it anyway.

You can downscale players to simulate difficulty.

...Okay hangon. "Simulate" difficulty.

"Simulate" difficulty. So basicly all you want is a additional time to kill? That's not freakin' difficulty, that's -tedium-. If that's what you want, you definately need to find another game.

all you have to do to get that experience is use group finder

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

He's spot on about this.

It's far too easy. Find it truly concerning that anyone thinks it's "just right".

Well, brace yourself because a lot of us are pretty content.

Not all of us are young, quick and into adrenaline rushes. Some of us enjoy a more moderate experience.

I think there should be an option, though, for those who crave the challenge but I do NOT think it (increased difficulty) should be "across the board". Too many would leave and we don't want that.

I'm notyoung,and am stoned all the time.Still prefer elevated difficulty.

Good for you!

Therefore, I hope that, if this is considered (and I highly doubt it will be) that it is optional so that you can have a good old stoned time and I can enjoy myself as well.

Presto! Both satisfied.

If read some of my other posts you would realize that I am in favor keeping more difficult ares separate.so my idea could actually have some merit.with elite world bosses they could even rarely drop gold jewels for that zone.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Just kidding. I see a lot of folks saying the game's overland content difficulty is "just right". So I made a quick video.

I see many people on either side of this conversation, and my personal opinion agrees. Content should be much more difficult. However, I was just in a discord with a bunch of my friends, and something someone said fits perfectly here.

"Just because content is easy for you, doesn't mean it's easy for everyone."

What we need is the option to increase the difficulty of content. Not a slider, but perhaps when you hit champion rank you can toggle the entire over world into a "veteran" version of itself. Veteran instances would be separate instances to cater to players who do enjoy more difficult content.

If this proposal was implemented, everyone can be happy. The casual players can play in a relaxed manner and the hardcore players can challenge themselves wherever they go.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Dude, youre an end game build, your opinion on the matter is biased, no matter what skills or buffs you dont use.

We need non champ players in here giving their 2 cents.

That's my point. Why shouldn't endgame players be able to enjoy overland content too?

Look at Morrowind. It released with 30 hours of content for new players and just one piece of content for veterans (and that being only for veterans who do 12-man content, while solo/small group vets were completely ignored). The game overwhelmingly caters to new players.

Because overland is meant for new players, and we all got our fill of its difficulty when we were new and still learning. Now that we did learn and have hundreds of CP, we earned our place to steamroll it now. Its not our place to demand it be rehashed and hardened so we can get our kicks again. Where does that leave new players? For us easy becomes hard and for them hard becomes impossible?

I also think that the open world is too easy. I can scarcely imagine anyone who has ever played a different Elder Scrolls game having trouble with it.

But, this is an MMO, and there are a lot of people that don't play this video game to play a video game, but to be social.

I do think one aspect of ESO is quite challenging: trying to find a group that won't disperse immediately if something goes wrong. I must qualify that by adding the condition of not having friends/acquaintances/allies available and not being part of a group that forms regularly... i.e., PuGing is very unforgiving in ESO.

Part of me supposes that you could make the argument that if overland was more difficult, PuGers wouldn't quail when they see that group content requires the player to be much more proactive, and the quality of PuGs in general would be higher.

ArchMikem wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Dude, youre an end game build, your opinion on the matter is biased, no matter what skills or buffs you dont use.

We need non champ players in here giving their 2 cents.

That's my point. Why shouldn't endgame players be able to enjoy overland content too?

Look at Morrowind. It released with 30 hours of content for new players and just one piece of content for veterans (and that being only for veterans who do 12-man content, while solo/small group vets were completely ignored). The game overwhelmingly caters to new players.

Because overland is meant for new players, and we all got our fill of its difficulty when we were new and still learning. Now that we did learn and have hundreds of CP, we earned our place to steamroll it now. Its not our place to demand it be rehashed and hardened so we can get our kicks again. Where does that leave new players? For us easy becomes hard and for them hard becomes impossible?

Most people will be endgame-level by the time they reach the DLC content. The base game can be for new players. But at least make the DLC a higher difficulty as you're asking veteran players to buy it.

There has to be a way to make it more enjoyable for end game characters without making it impossibly hard for newbies. Come on people its 21st century.

Removing the cost of disabling/enabling CP would be a good start. Or make it an optional nerf that gives increased drop rate or something.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

People defending the overworld content clearly aren't seeing the big picture.

What does the overland content do to prepare you for dungeons? It does not punish you for having a bad build, not knowing what a rotation is and just spamming one skill, not weaving and animation cancelling, using bad skills, not using food, or even not understanding the game's basic combat functions. I could hand the controller to my brother, who has literally never touched an ES game in his life, and he could complete any non-craglorn non-world-boss overland content he could find. That is NOT GOOD DESIGN.

The overland needs a BIG change to difficulty, or at the very least Zenimax needs to commit at least one DLC to an overworld with proper difficulty. I don't mean making every trash add as strong as a vet trial add, but at least make all of the quest objectives not only appropriately difficult to complete, but more rewarding for doing so.

Where does it state that overland content is there to "prepare players for dungeons"? I have never seen this posted by a developer or a game company anywhere ever. Its always an argument that eventually comes out of discussions over turning the games general difficulty up. It is always a poorly thought out argument by a player who tries to describe overland content the way they personally view it should be. And the only way it would absolutely work the way they imagine it, is if everyone is forced into it.

First it was that Players wanted overland content to be more difficult so they could enjoy it. Which is a fine, its okay to say youre looking for something different than what you are currently getting. Its also fine for those who dont think its needed to speak up and say they dont want that here. Then those arguing for it moved to the next logical step in the discussion and said itll be optional, so you dont have to do it if you dont want to! Which people replied that it would likely impact drops, exp and other things you can gain from overland content. At some point someone always makes it a "newbs need to learn!" thing. Now its morphed into "We're trying to help the newbs and inexperienced players...Look how noble we are". Well, that doesnt make a lick of sense. If its absolutely optional, what is going to drive these newbs and experienced players to "prepare for dungeons" by using this difficulty slider? Nothing. So youre either going to have to force them into this, or this argument about new players and using overland content to prepare for endgame content is just a terrible lie.

At most some will try it only to get absolutely smashed by the HP Sponges and OSK mechanics. The majority that will give it a go will get frustrated and return to the normal mode. A few, with a similiar mindset as yours, or simply want to get better at the game will stick with it. But it will be a very small fraction of the playerbase. And so the content that requires more than one player like World Bosses and even Delves, especially with the new slider changing how content is approached. Will be difficult to accomplish not because of the difficulty slider but because of the lack of presence by players in this new mode. So in no time, youll be back on here complaining that you cant find anyone to group with and that the Hardmode Overland Content is a wasteland with no one to play with. ZOS you done &^%%ed it up! ZOS you cant get anything right! If its not you, itll definitely be someone else.

So what would become of Hardmode Overland? Well likely ZOS will have moved on to other projects and Hardmode Overland will become the new Craglorn. Barren and unused by the playerbase outside of some players farming it. Maybe in about 2-3 years when ZOS is looking for something to fill their docket with, theyll decide they need to retouch Hardmode. But that doesnt guarantee it will be a successful change or that itll entice those newbs to "git gud".

The problem lies in the difference of strength between overland mobs and vet players. That difference is pretty obvious; even someone well-geared for PvP (which is to say, more focus on survivability and utility than exclusively damage) can 1-2 shot mobs. While the fun solution for us would be to make them stronger, far stronger, consider the case of a total, day-one newb, or a vet player who wiped their CP, attributes, morphs, passives, and removed gear. I've done that once for testing purposes (to find that the available information about general stats is correct) and challenged some of the mobs early in glenumbra, coincidentally the first quest I ever came across when I started playing years ago. A group of 2 was nightmarishly difficult to defeat and I found myself kiting away a lot because, while I could keep up when jabbing, I ran out of magicka after a handful of them and the crappy regen needed like 5 ticks to recover one additional use.

Now, certainly, I was doing it wrong (and I believe I died a few times to them...) but that is how well I fared even with two years of experience: knowing kiting (running tf away w/o triggering despawn) tactics, knowing to avoid those tripwires on the ground, and knowing what skill I needed to wait for when regen came through. A newb, or potato? Nah. Give him perfect gear and toss him in a vet dungeon and he'll fare no better.

The problem is power creep.

Ah, I should mention that I don't subscribe to the idea that overland is "for casuals" and dungeons and "for vets." If you're doing the game right, all content is for everyone who wants to do it, and accessible to them. What's more, each tier of mob grouping to fight should prepare you for the next one, so someone who has killed overland mobs should be prepare to take on a quest, which should prepare them for something bigger not too far removed from a dungeon. Not to say you'll be immediately successful and anyone can quit anywhere, but it is within reach. As it stands, the transition is too large and the problem is power creep.

im glad it's relatively easy, there's harder stuff too which I do and also enjoy but you can always make things harder for yourself easily without changing the whole experience for everyone. It's nigh impossible to make stuff easier for others who aren't at your level
Maybe you could start a naked run leaderboard or other events with specialist guilds
And if it was harder there'd be fewer alts

Craglorn and old vet zones were not simply deserted because they were hard, but also because there was no appropriate reward for the difficulty. Difficulty and reward go hand in hand, so the obvious question is:
What's the reward for overland content that it should be more difficult?

Because as it is right now, it's just story fluff. There's nothing special to be gained from any of it, the zone-dependant item sets can be gotten by even easier means, such as treaure chests. Even the rather difficult world bosses don't have a substantial reward to them. So making unrewarding fluff and trash fights more difficult is not exactly fun.

Nevertheless, I'd welcome more rewarding, difficult overland-style content, mainly because you can do it with any number of people and aren't locked into groups of 4 or 12, like for dungeons and trials. Currently there is nothing like this for endgame PvE.
My hopes in this regard are either

1) Add new public dungeons similar in difficulty to old IC sewers / veteran DLC dungeons. Possibly with a system similar to Tel Vars (and free-roaming bosses!).
2) Rework current public dungeons to veteran difficulty, like world bosses were reworked with One Tamriel. It's supposed to be group content anyway. Somehow integrate them into the Undaunted reward structure, they are dungeons too after all.

Alternatively, as has been suggested many times, there could be an optional difficulty slider, as long as it also provided better rewards - otherwise, nobody will use that feature.
The best solution would be something like a debuff akin to Battle Spirit in Cyrodiil, possibly granted by a Daedric Prince (or even a variety of debuffs from different deities, nicely expanding this to a system for religious factions/reputation). While in this debuffed state you get a new currency that you can trade in for rewards. Could also be a source for new achievements.

MercyKilling wrote: »

*points to signature*

All this would be solved if we could set our own personal difficulty for the game, no? All it would take is instancing missions and such. Too bad such a basic MMO concept is lost with this game and it's white knights.

It already exists. Tell me why you need your armor.

Seri wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

*points to signature*

All this would be solved if we could set our own personal difficulty for the game, no? All it would take is instancing missions and such. Too bad such a basic MMO concept is lost with this game and it's white knights.

It already exists. Tell me why you need your armor.

I'll assume you won't accept 'to improve damage' as valid so I'll offer 'to improve regen sufficiently to actually be able to use all the skills that ZoS allow us to slot' rather than heavy attacking all day long.

Sounds like easy mode. There’s no way to achieve this in weaker gear? Maybe level 1? You want a harder game, but you want sufficient regen. Perhaps the difficulty slider would not be so tailored to your own personal expectations. What if it just cut every stat you had in half? Couldn’t you just do that yourself?