The anti nerf sorc thread
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ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And replace it with....? Something nice please - Implosion is a trash skill. I'd love something useful instead (would be hard on stamsorcs tho).. Perhaps a free +15% to all recov stats? 8% max mag? Free resources on ulti use? I'm not fussy.
It's just a slightly more bursty poison injection.. But to compete with other executes - you remove the delay, and you'd have to up the threshold to 25% and probably the damage too. Or (Personally), I'd like to see the non-execute dmg higher to give DW sorcs a nod.
Implosion replaced with dot from any health? Keeps deeps, changes "Ohfuckprocc'd."Drummerx04 wrote: »
I really don't understand why shield stacking triggers people so much. There are so many builds out there on every class that are pretty hard to deal with...- permablocking magDK with a bunch of dots that also heal them + battle roar
- mistforming HA S&B templars, you can barely chase them because their healing ground effects also snare everything
- Wardens with their trees, purge, cone heal, trellis, shimmering armor
- shield stacking magNB with shade port (when not broken) and cloak which force misses direct damage AND DOTS
- Tanks in general, and btw there are a lot of full or semi tanks in this meta
- Perma dodge LoSing stam builds
Most if not all of the above mentioned build styles are also capable of delivering significant amounts of burst or sustained pressure. DK and templar in particular make good use of Skoria, which amounts to a mini ultimate every 10 seconds.
Permablock takes dots and ground based abilities, whilst stopping stam and being constantly nerfed. Heals can be defiled, shimmering is limited targets, again, dots etc. Cloak is quite easily breakable and intensive. Shieldstacking on most classes is bad generally. Perma dodge is very nearly impossible and LOS is skill. Shields only take obliv/bleed dmg to the health, have little sacrifice (both stat and usage wise, no snare, easier to sustain etc.) and are honestly one of the worst things to go against especially in a 1v1.
That said no nerfing shields until a full cloak/shades fix, and sorc returns to its speedy bursty place (buff mines too) with working pets.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
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Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
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I kind of think the new rune-prison was added specifically with miats in mind - but obviously without bearing in mind the slot-limitations sorc has.
It does work well on DW builds - especially against perma-blockers/rollers. But the combination of damage loss from frag-nerf and in the build due to necessary recov for it means that although you can land your burst - it just isn't enough - especially in this semi-tanky meta. Fights are all stalemates with it and it essentially it ends up being another Xv1 tool.
I much prefer mobility now, but even then it only really lets you pick n choose your fights. Playing sorc is an exercise in finding weaklings to burst while running from and/or out-sustaining the rest.
It's too expensive IMO.....the new rune prison I mean0 -
WhitePawPrints✭✭✭✭✭
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The thing is that sorc have already crowded bars. Yes rune prison is now very useful but sorcs now have to choose dmg/control/utility which leads to more balance.
Many says that shield stack is problem. Did any of you tried to kill good magblade in Cyro? Its almost impossible shadowy image(ofc when it works), cloak and good bye. Or warden with their crazy ulti gen and surviveability? There is many unkillable 1v1 specs but most of the time its the player behind the toon matters so, go there and try it for your self
I have played almost every type of class and I wouldn't say that sorcs are strongest.
I specialize in killing cloaking spammers. They’re not hard to keep out of cloak. And it’s hard to compare magblades, who build to escape, to what magsorcs were. Shield stacking is absolutely terrible and still could be addressed. There is no way to counter it. Defile affects healing, barely, but nothing can disrupt shields.
I feel specs are finally on par with other classes in PvP. Shields still need a hard counter - a weapon enchantment that doubles damage to shields would work.Edited by WhitePawPrints on December 11, 2017 9:04PM1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WhitePawPrints wrote: »
I specialize in killing cloaking spammers. They’re not hard to keep out of cloak. And it’s hard to compare magblades, who build to escape, to what magsorcs were. Shield stacking is absolutely terrible and still could be addressed. There is no way to counter it. Defile affects healing, barely, but nothing can disrupt shields.
I feel specs are finally on par with other classes in PvP. Shields still need a hard counter - a weapon enchantment that doubles damage to shields would work.
Defile has counters in the form of buffs like Mending and Vitality. If shields were subject to a debuff like Defile, there would need to be a corresponding BUFF that shield users could employ to counter it! As it stands now there are NO percentage based buffs to shield size other than the Bastion CP.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
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ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WhitePawPrints wrote: »
I specialize in killing cloaking spammers. They’re not hard to keep out of cloak. And it’s hard to compare magblades, who build to escape, to what magsorcs were. Shield stacking is absolutely terrible and still could be addressed. There is no way to counter it. Defile affects healing, barely, but nothing can disrupt shields.
I feel specs are finally on par with other classes in PvP. Shields still need a hard counter - a weapon enchantment that doubles damage to shields would work.
Shield stacking is a problem. Shields are not.
Hardcounters are generally bad for balance and only really make sense with abilities that deal in absolutes themselves, such as reflect or dodge. (That said, dmg increase vs shields isn't a hardcounter anyway.)DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
Defile has counters in the form of buffs like Mending and Vitality. If shields were subject to a debuff like Defile, there would need to be a corresponding BUFF that shield users could employ to counter it! As it stands now there are NO percentage based buffs to shield size other than the Bastion CP.
Minor/Major Protection? Maim?PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Valera Progib wrote: »
Minor/Major Protection? Maim?
That's not the point - these are merely buffs/debuffs that also work on shields, and already have counterparts in Vulnerability and Berserk respectively.
It would make sense to expect a corresponding buff if a standard shield debuff were to be introduced. Shields would then have to be balanced with both of them in mind.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭
That's not the point - these are merely buffs/debuffs that also work on shields, and already have counterparts in Vulnerability and Berserk respectively.
It would make sense to expect a corresponding buff if a standard shield debuff were to be introduced. Shields would then have to be balanced with both of them in mind.
Agree, just trying to be "devils advocate"... I think shield stack should be removed from the game. Hardened ward + healing ward is ok, as sorc doesn't have a heal otherwise... Harness should not stack with any class wards and shield breaker should be removed in that case With one move, we can reduce the salt level to super low. Though, people will find what to complain about... PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Valera Progib wrote: »
Minor/Major Protection? Maim?
Like ToRelax said, those things work for everybody, including self-healers and health regen builds. There is no Major/Minor buff to boost shields.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Sygil05✭✭✭Are there many magsorcs running both Hardened Ward & Harness Magicka? I see a lot of people complain about this, but just don't see how I could give up a slot on my bar to run another shield without handicapping my burst1
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Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The problem with Sorcs is all they are good at is damage.
They have too many skills that are very similar, some CC and a little damage. The biggest offender of that is the dark magic tree that needs more varitey and honestly I'd rework it to be the tanking/ultility tree.
Other than twlight all thier healing is self healing and all thier tankiness seems to come with damage or pets (which die when tanking) or costs a lot of resources a tank doesn't have.
A bunch of skills and morphs and perhaps even passives, (Looking at you useless rebate passive) really need an update.
Having to have everything double barred is a huge restriction particularly for tanks and healers who might need some situational skills. Sorcs need an update to work more like Wardens. Perhaps not every pet skill but a bunch of them (maybe even morphs) should be more one shot effects rather than perminate.
As for weaknesses I think a suitable class weakness would be cast times, having to double bar some skills and well the derpiness of pets. whille I think they already have these weaknesses I'd like thier importance be shifted around a bit.1 -
Hurtfan✭✭✭✭✭Removing stun from crystal frags has made it harder for me in PvP. It was great against the runners, now I just let them go. Maybe I need to think about switching that ability for something else.For the Pact!Keyboard not found, press any key to continue0
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Are there many magsorcs running both Hardened Ward & Harness Magicka? I see a lot of people complain about this, but just don't see how I could give up a slot on my bar to run another shield without handicapping my burst
I do. Although I don't use healing ward.
When its laggy, and bar-swaps are slow/messy, I need a guarantee that when I hit a button, I will be casting a shield no matter what bar I'm on. I always set up so that I have defensive abilities on the same 'slots' on each bar.. eg, for stam, I'll always have rally and vigour bound to '3' so no matter what bar I'm on, pressing '3' will give me a heal.
I could double-slot hardened instead, since most of the time I do only have one shield up - but to be fair, it is sometimes useful to stack. It doesn't help vs high sustained dmg, nor do much more vs burst - but it can help to overlap your shields for a sec before the other is about to run out (decent defence vs those trying to time burst with your shield running out) - and its useful to stack before rushing through a chokepoint (open keep door etc.).
But I have to make do without an execute to do it though.
Minalan owes me a beer.
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Drummerx04✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are there many magsorcs running both Hardened Ward & Harness Magicka? I see a lot of people complain about this, but just don't see how I could give up a slot on my bar to run another shield without handicapping my burst
I typically do when running solo/small group.
A good 60+% of the time I don't even stack the harness in because it's so expensive compared to hardened, but when dealing with a bunch of magicka dots or a bunch of players when solo, I often will. When fighting stam builds 1v1 I usually don't use harness because it costs like 3.5k for < 8k damage shield, which many stam builds can remove with one Dizzying Swing.
Everyone makes out triple shield stacking to be so broken god mode survivability... Give me one good teammate and the two of us can probably kill 98% of triple shield stacking sorcs inside of 1-2 minutes, and the sorc will barely have time to try to fight back.PC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
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Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭
2)Rune cage got a huge buff, consider this change a nerf despite of the cost increase is not appropiate.
3)With Morrowind patch many class substain mechanics were nerfed. Sinphoning Strikes (Nb), Battle Roar (DK).. while Dark Deal remained untouched.
4)Not a sorc issue, all clases can use Maelstrom staff
5)Not a sorc issue again.
6)Not a sorc issue again.
Rune cage is delayed and is bad. Do you know how hard it is to small scale with rune cage?Edited by Micah_Bayer on December 12, 2017 7:29PM1 -
cschwingeb14_ESO✭✭✭✭My solution to no-stun frags had been to switch from crushing shock to Master staff+reach. Sadly, all I have is lightning one. Still need to farm a fire staff
It works fairly well if you are careful to run burst cycles properly and don't accidentally give CC immunity spamming reach
With a Master staff, reach deals more damage up front than CS, and costs a lot less.It also has a dot and chance to proc status effect, so this is a decent trade off. I'm able to run with less regen due to lower cost, so it's worth the 1-slot bonus
Perhaps a solution to shield stacking, taken as a whole:
When you shield YOURSELF with a second shield, the OLDER shield(s) remaining value gets cut in half
AND, add a major/minor buff for shields. The major buff is more accessible to sorcs than other classes
AND, shields are affected by defile0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Valera Progib wrote: »OP, most things you are talking about are irrelevant.
Frags nerf - who cares, 10% is nothing. Without cc, people are more happy to eat a frag in the face, than before.
Rune prison cost - oh cmon, this skill is now extremely usefull and cost is one of the lowest, you can spam it on multiple targets... Sometimes it is impossible to break free from it...
Overload - nobody cares
Magsorc is ok, at least I don’t feel bullied by anyone in duels.
Shimmering shield is annoying though, this skill should be reworked, if stam/mag warden is pressuring me and spamming shimmering shield - very difficult to turn the table... stamwarden doesn’t need magicka for anything else...
Useless to try to catch stamden as magsorc in “capture the relic” with coward and shimmering shield on
Rune cage costs 3k it's the most expensive ability on mag sorc minus harness magicka and that isn't even a sorc ability1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »My solution to no-stun frags had been to switch from crushing shock to Master staff+reach. Sadly, all I have is lightning one. Still need to farm a fire staff
It works fairly well if you are careful to run burst cycles properly and don't accidentally give CC immunity spamming reach
With a Master staff, reach deals more damage up front than CS, and costs a lot less.It also has a dot and chance to proc status effect, so this is a decent trade off. I'm able to run with less regen due to lower cost, so it's worth the 1-slot bonus
Perhaps a solution to shield stacking, taken as a whole:
When you shield YOURSELF with a second shield, the OLDER shield(s) remaining value gets cut in half
AND, add a major/minor buff for shields. The major buff is more accessible to sorcs than other classes
AND, shields are affected by defile
Defile should NOT affect shields. If shields need to be debuffed, there should be a whole new Major/Minor debuff invented for this purpose. Nobody should get shield debuffing thrown in for free when they are already debuffing healing, which Sorcerers need to do as well as shield. Also if shields are given debuffs, there need to be corresponding Major/Minor buffs for shields created, too.Edited by Emma_Overload on December 13, 2017 8:19AM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
Pinja✭✭✭✭Sorcs stop talking about shields, there a cotton mouth distraction just like they are in combat. A sorcs Dps is really out matched by alot of cyrodiil runners, think perhaps all the base classes have stronger combos now. Wardens with better sustain.
that whole false about shields was fixed a year ago.0 -
Pinja✭✭✭✭The sorc hasn't had true pvp glory in years. Bomb-blades & Gank-blades, took the show years ago to the point those two titles of one class(night-blade,) are famous amongst even the rookie Pvp populations. The Dual wield sorc went extinct from bis with sustain changes & the dual wield nerf of one tamrial. Run now by 5,5,2 fantasizers with it no were near what it needs to be 4 open world viability. Ya it can stay back & watch some1 else do 80% of the work but that means your being carried because it sucks. Ya, I've seen those fabled BG KDs, and they where on the loosing team. Effect= 4 4 400% vs 320 blazing endless fury with your sustain issues. Those sorcs can't even proc enchantments, can't hold an objective.
PRetty much the whole class is running on illusion magic they sell to night-blades who run it better.Edited by Pinja on December 13, 2017 3:48PM0 -
Pinja✭✭✭✭We need dual wands, & our frags back!
They weren't overloaded. They were nerfed three ways, & three shattering times.
They were projectiles, random procs, & cut on damage.
They took 2 damage nerfs & became the only ability to get nerfed an ability. Meaning most sorcs lost an ability for no reason.Edited by Pinja on December 13, 2017 4:03PM0 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭As a magsorc community we need to agree to remove shieldstack between Harness and any class shield from this game...
I feel that the only matchup where I need to use harness is against other shieldstacking sorcs... Instant class heal without double bar pets, would be nice...PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq0 -
Hurtfan✭✭✭✭✭No moar nerfs, the stun removal from frags sucks...trying to figure out a new play-style in PvP because of it...
As for shield stacking, the few times I've seen 3 shields stacked, they did zero damage, but their survivability was great, of course.We need dual wands, & our frags back!
They weren't overloaded. They were nerfed three ways, & three shattering times.
They were projectiles, random procs, & cut on damage.
They took 2 damage nerfs & became the only ability to get nerfed an ability. Meaning most sorcs lost an ability for no reason.
I agree with needing frags back. I hate to be the one crying about this nerf but I'm rethinking my abilities because of it, it sucks.For the Pact!Keyboard not found, press any key to continue0 -
Hurtfan✭✭✭✭✭We need dual wands, & our frags back!
They weren't overloaded. They were nerfed three ways, & three shattering times.
They were projectiles, random procs, & cut on damage.
They took 2 damage nerfs & became the only ability to get nerfed an ability. Meaning most sorcs lost an ability for no reason.
I agree with needing frags back. I hate to be the one crying about this nerf but I'm rethinking my abilities because of it, it sucks.Edited by Hurtfan on December 13, 2017 4:31PMFor the Pact!Keyboard not found, press any key to continue0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Remove Implosion as it's the stupidest skill in the game with little too no counter play. Mages wrath should not place a bomb on your enemy that procs at 20% health. It steals kills in battle grounds and is stupid in general. Give frags it's 10% damage back
Implosion isn't a skill, it's a " passive ability " .
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