The anti nerf sorc thread

Newton's_bane

It has been a long time since I saw a nerf sorc thread and for good reasons. I main a sorc and always agreed on nerfing sorcs in the past but imo they overdid themselves now. I was never the best at duelling but considered myself quite a good dueller and I did perform well in these duels with my previous build. Now with all the recent nerfs I completely changed my builld and min/maxed everything. Against other sorcs I most of the time win or either tie, but compared to other classes it slightly underperforms. So this is a shoutout to stop nerfing sorcs for now, we had quite our share. A short list of what directly or inderectly affected sorcs "recently":

1) c-frags: it deserved a nerf, but maybe not 2 nerfs (removed stun, decreased damage by +- 10 %)
2) rune-cage: ok it went from disorient to stun, but the cost increased quite a bit
3) dark deal: increased the cast time
4) completely made the maelstrom destro staff useless in solo PvP (lots of builds ran this)
5) nerfed the necropotence (lots of builds run/ran this)
6) increased the cost of resto ultie (ok this is maybe good, but still it has affected sorcs)
7) Overload Ultimate storage halved

I probably forgot some things but shortly summoned up I have the feeling that sorcs are underperforming compared to other classes this patch. I know I will get people saying: get better or huh sorcs are still too OP, but I would like to have some insight from people who played sorc recently or against them.

Morgul667

Buff stamsorc and leave magsorc alone

Maybe do something against shield stacking and thats it

Newton's_bane

@Morgul667 I found that shield stacking was indeed the major issue with sorcs, they could have for example added critical to shields or such. But now if they gonna also nerf shields I have the feeling you won't encounter many sorcs in duels anymore...

Beardimus

Amen Sorc brother.

Be ready for the avalanche of hate now however!! But the current nerfs have def put Sorcs on the back foot in many areas.

Add in:
Last years ward Nerf,
healing ward bugged for 10 months,
losing webs as a spammable (DW Nerf),
sustain cost increases making active defence way harder,
Overload Ultimate storage halved
Etc...

Problem is the PvP noobs kept moaning cos they couldn't/wouldnt adapt tactics and counter Sorcs despite the nerfs. Thus ZOS compelled to act.

I think Frag stun back is prob the one clincher that would bring balance back.

Newton's_bane

@Beardimus Thx for the nice additions and indeed I am already bracing myself for the incoming hate but it has to be said at a certain point. Indeed bringing back the stun from c-frags could maybe even out things again, but the main reason why I posted it, is to hopefully raise awareness and not to receive more nerfs.

Pastas

Newton_FirstLaw wrote: »

It has been a long time since I saw a nerf sorc thread and for good reasons. I main a sorc and always agreed on nerfing sorcs in the past but imo they overdid themselves now. I was never the best at duelling but considered myself quite a good dueller and I did perform well in these duels with my previous build. Now with all the recent nerfs I completely changed my builld and min/maxed everything. Against other sorcs I most of the time win or either tie, but compared to other classes it slightly underperforms. So this is a shoutout to stop nerfing sorcs for now, we had quite our share. A short list of what directly or inderectly affected sorcs "recently":

1) c-frags: it deserved a nerf, but maybe not 2 nerfs (removed stun, decreased damage by +- 10 %)
2) rune-cage: ok it went from disorient to stun, but the cost increased quite a bit
3) dark deal: increased the cast time
4) completely made the maelstrom destro staff useless in solo PvP (lots of builds ran this)
5) nerfed the necropotence (lots of builds run/ran this)
6) increased the cost of resto ultie (ok this is maybe good, but still it has affected sorcs)

I probably forgot some things but shortly summoned up I have the feeling that sorcs are underperforming compared to other classes this patch. I know I will get people saying: get better or huh sorcs are still too OP, but I would like to have some insight from people who played sorc recently or against them.

2)Rune cage got a huge buff, consider this change a nerf despite of the cost increase is not appropiate.
3)With Morrowind patch many class substain mechanics were nerfed. Sinphoning Strikes (Nb), Battle Roar (DK).. while Dark Deal remained untouched.
4)Not a sorc issue, all clases can use Maelstrom staff
5)Not a sorc issue again.
6)Not a sorc issue again.

Newton's_bane

2) indeed I implied that it got a buff, but compared to a free stun from c-frags a high cost ability is not a good alternative imo
3) Dark Deal is now almost completely useless against stamina players, normally it did only get interrupted by people who were paying very close attention, but now everyone can interrupt it.
4, 5, 6) Indeed not sorc specific but since lots of sorcs were running with it, it affected sorcs much

KingYogi415

Bursting is much harder on a max mag or regen build sorc.

It's like ESO is going to path of destiny, making solo pvp play dead....

Shame really.

FloppyTouch

Game is not balance around duels ur points are invalid

Open world pvp negate and cc are still very strong best in game no issue

PvE dps is still very good and most trials have sorcs in them

Nothing about duels matter nor should they when talking about balance

Pastas

2)Frag stun was easy to block/dodge, now you have a 28m range unblockable and undodgeable stun. It looks like an interesting alternative in my opinion.
3)I concede that DD can be countered more easyly in duels, where you only have to focus in one target.
4)Maelstrom staff was used by all classes, myself were using one with my MagDK last patch.
5)Necropocence 5p bunus nerf was outshined by the buffs to 2p ,3p and 4p max magicka bonus and the Mague Mundus Stone.
6)Nerf for everyone using that ultimate, lot of templars, nb , dks and wardens too. Needed in my opinion btw.

Newton's_bane

@FloppyTouch So not balanced around duels, not balanced around 1v1 PvP, what is the balance point then zerg vs zerg?

FloppyTouch

Newton_FirstLaw wrote: »

@FloppyTouch So not balanced around duels, not balanced around 1v1 PvP, what is the balance point then zerg vs zerg?

Yes large group play and pve trials and 4 man group duels don’t matter

If ur point is valid then mdk need huge nerfs bc they do great in 1v1 but that can’t be farther from the truth.

As soon as u talked about duels ur post meant nothing

Newton's_bane

@Pastas
2) Thats true, but you still have to slot an extra skill, which in my case means dropping out other good skills. And the skill has quite a delay which is good to do damage afterwards but not good for a oh crap I'm almost dead lets stun the enemy situation

Newton's_bane

@FloppyTouch
So are you saying the game is partly balanced on pvp zergs?? For all I know there is not much to be balanced in zergs, maybe just aoe damage for PvP raids. And as you can clearly see there is not such a nerf listed in my thread so I hardly doubt it is balanced on large groups. I know though that the only balance factor is not duels, but also small groups and PvE for example. And mdk's in general do not outshine any other builds in 1v1, I would rather say they excel in 1vX situations.

TequilaFire

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Bursting is much harder on a max mag or regen build sorc.

It's like ESO is going to path of destiny, making solo pvp play dead....

Shame really.

This game was never about solo PvP that is a player wish thing.
Sure they added duels later to try to appease those that wanted 1v1 but the game never was intended to be 1vX and therefore not balanced for solo PvP..

FloppyTouch

Newton_FirstLaw wrote: »

@FloppyTouch
So are you saying the game is partly balanced on pvp zergs?? For all I know there is not much to be balanced in zergs, maybe just aoe damage for PvP raids. And as you can clearly see there is not such a nerf listed in my thread so I hardly doubt it is balanced on large groups. I know though that the only balance factor is not duels, but also small groups and PvE for example. And mdk's in general do not outshine any other builds in 1v1, I would rather say they excel in 1vX situations.

I’m saying the game is balance around group play and what classes bring to the group support or dps. Sorcs are in a great spot dps is great survival is great mobility is great. Bc you don’t feel strong in a 1v1 really does not matter. If we balance the game around 1v1 it would be horrible.

Just bc the class is not stupid Op and more balance then ever does not mean it needs any buffs at all it in a great spot.

Newton's_bane

@FloppyTouch
This was not a buff sorc thread, the title literally says anti-nerf. Sorc is just at the point of slightly underperforming in 1v1, but in the rest like you say it is still quite good. I was just posting this thread cause some people are still saying sorc is OP in duels which is absolutely not the case anymore, I just want to prevent any more nerfs for 1v1.

Shardan4968

Don't nerf sorcs, buff nbs.

Newton's_bane

@Shardan4968
imo magblades outperform magsorcs in 1v1 situations right now, in open world I don't really know

Shardan4968

@Newton_FirstLaw
Hmm.. buff sorcs a little bit, buff stamblades more!

Emma_Overload

I don't want the Crystal Frag stun back nearly as much I want the extra 10% damage that got taken away with the earlier Frag nerf. This spell is so difficult to land now, it NEEDS to hit HARD.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

And that's what happens when PVPers call to nerf what they can't deal with. It ruins the game for so many people while "fixing" it for those that need to L2P.

Zer0oo

Be happy 90% of all sorcs are free ap packages.

TequilaFire

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

And that's what happens when PVPers call to nerf what they can't deal with. It ruins the game for so many people while "fixing" it for those that need to L2P.

LOL, maybe the opposite is true Sorcs needed to L2P without I win buttons.

Voxicity

Mag sorc still stupidly OP. The day it either loses it's extremely high damage, loses it's insane tankability or loses it's insane mobility, may be the day that mag sorc is somewhat balanced

Waffennacht

There is no way you can say Sorc is OP!

Compared to Warden, NB, and even imo Templars, they at best stand on par.

One of the few main burst purgeable, other nerfed and dodgeable, very telegraphed.

There's just no way. I mean the healz of other classes out perform it. The damage abilities are not even the hardest hitters, I'll give them mobility.

The only thing they do better than anyone else is steal kills

WreckfulAbandon

If you don't want sorc to get nerfed anymore it's probably best to just not talk about it...

See now this thread has given a few people a chance to come out and say things like "Mag sorc still stupidly OP"

And we really shouldn't be inviting ignorance like that to be a part of balance discussions

Ragnarock41

I gotta admit I fear magblades much more than magsorcs, but they are still, very friggen strong.
I don't want any nerfs to sorc but I'm pretty sure sorcs don't deserve any buffs at the moment,
both stamina and magicka, perform very well in both PvP/PvE.

nightblades on the other hand, are a bit extreme at the moment. Especially in the hands of a good player, there is just nothing you can do about them,they are very, I mean veeeery slippery, Its so frustrating I find myself using skills purely to counter nightblades,
fossilize, wings,take flight,troll king(cus defile).. and so on...

Vs magsorcs tho I can just roll with my current build anyways,they are easier to catch even with all that mobility because you can actually target them, and If a sorc is sitting on mines/pets I will literally refuse to fight and move away. cus ıts open world, why would I fight the lamest thing in the game on his own terms?

Pinja

Sorcs are soo, underpowerd. Like the main spam isn't even a class move.

Pinja

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

If you don't want sorc to get nerfed anymore it's probably best to just not talk about it...

See now this thread has given a few people a chance to come out and say things like "Mag sorc still stupidly OP"

And we really shouldn't be inviting ignorance like that to be a part of balance discussions

No the war is starting.

DeadlyRecluse

I think all classes are pretty balanced right now, tbh. The only things that feel a little unbalanced to me atm is warden survivability and the 7th legion set.

The crystal frags nerf was a terribly designed nerf, but was more or less balanced by the unblockable rune CC. Not a decision I would have made, I don't think anyone really complained about CC being attached to an obvious, dodgeable, blockable projectile.