The anti nerf sorc thread
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Pinja✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »
LOL, maybe the opposite is true Sorcs needed to L2P without I win buttons.
Like Incap strike??
Ya the last attack button in the fight is a win button, but that's after I win the fight...
Thing is nightblades don't like to fight, they like to hit you from no where with the kill button.Edited by Pinja on December 10, 2017 8:59PM1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorcs are OP in very specific and limited circumstances, such as a deathmatch BG match where they can steal kills, or dueling with a pet build where they can hide inside of or behind their pets.
But in 95% of circumstances, sorcs are underpowered.
But I also think it’s because we haven’t seen the birth of real caster extension setups yet. Now that shuffle has been removed from heavy armor, I think it’s only a matter of time.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp3 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Newton_FirstLaw wrote: »It has been a long time since I saw a nerf sorc thread and for good reasons. I main a sorc and always agreed on nerfing sorcs in the past but imo they overdid themselves now. I was never the best at duelling but considered myself quite a good dueller and I did perform well in these duels with my previous build. Now with all the recent nerfs I completely changed my builld and min/maxed everything. Against other sorcs I most of the time win or either tie, but compared to other classes it slightly underperforms. So this is a shoutout to stop nerfing sorcs for now, we had quite our share. A short list of what directly or inderectly affected sorcs "recently":
1) c-frags: it deserved a nerf, but maybe not 2 nerfs (removed stun, decreased damage by +- 10 %)
2) rune-cage: ok it went from disorient to stun, but the cost increased quite a bit
3) dark deal: increased the cast time
4) completely made the maelstrom destro staff useless in solo PvP (lots of builds ran this)
5) nerfed the necropotence (lots of builds run/ran this)
6) increased the cost of resto ultie (ok this is maybe good, but still it has affected sorcs)
7) Overload Ultimate storage halved
I probably forgot some things but shortly summoned up I have the feeling that sorcs are underperforming compared to other classes this patch. I know I will get people saying: get better or huh sorcs are still too OP, but I would like to have some insight from people who played sorc recently or against them.
Hi, Nightblade here since 4.4.2014 and the only thing we were getting are 24/7 nerfs so grow up and deal with it.4 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Buff stamsorc and leave magsorc alone
Maybe do something against shield stacking and thats it
Id love surge to get a longer diration like double
Un nerf the hurricane nerf back to full power, make bound armaments still cost magicka but affect stamina. Liquid lightning could use a summon tornado stam dps morph.
Allow pets to scale off highest resourge stam or mag whole new world of builds.
Stam morph of storm atro like an air atro that spins in place doing physical dmg.
Bigger tweak since we the toggle class roll surge and bound armor into one skill and make it give brutality or sorcery based on the stam and magicka morphs and let it be a constant active toggle freeing up 1 slot on some builds and making the slotted toggle less of a pain in the ass
Magicka sorcs i admit shield stacks are stupid but bring back the overload builds and uniqueness this pet double team while holding heavy attack is stupidly boring... also can we get some real summons daedric vermin is cute but id rather have summon flame atronachs something actually powerful.. a clannfear and a scamp arent exactly run in terror2 -
Pinja✭✭✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »
Hi, Nightblade here since 4.4.2014 and the only thing we were getting are 24/7 nerfs so grow up and deal with it.
Well besides that 'pivotal' agony change did you loose an entire ability?Edited by Pinja on December 10, 2017 9:16PM0 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Well besides that 'pivotal' agony change did you loose an entire ability?
read all changes... I still miss my old cloak of shadows...0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The issue was always with shields. Specs used to have mobility damage and tankiness. Now, they lost the damage quite a bit since no one runs frags.
Honestly I personally say nerf shields and unnerf nearly everything else. Make ulti 1000 again, lower the streak penalty, make pets have a turret option (like netch/eg) restore frags stun and make rune prison a stam disorient.
MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »
Hi, Nightblade here since 4.4.2014 and the only thing we were getting are 24/7 nerfs so grow up and deal with it.
Aside from the fact that nbs are by far the best balanced class with their own unique abilities and flare that hasn't been ripped from them.
Nah, the only issue with nb is constantly broken abilities. Other classes have had much worse nerfs and bugs too... Cough cough DK/templars.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Pinja✭✭✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »
read all changes... I still miss my old cloak of shadows...
Are you talking about changes to cloak or changes to invisibility? What patch, well 2 save u time what change? The one I see still does what it did.
To mention Dark cloak is the main morph.Edited by Pinja on December 10, 2017 9:49PM0 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭OP, most things you are talking about are irrelevant.
Frags nerf - who cares, 10% is nothing. Without cc, people are more happy to eat a frag in the face, than before.
Rune prison cost - oh cmon, this skill is now extremely usefull and cost is one of the lowest, you can spam it on multiple targets... Sometimes it is impossible to break free from it...
Overload - nobody cares
Magsorc is ok, at least I don’t feel bullied by anyone in duels.
Shimmering shield is annoying though, this skill should be reworked, if stam/mag warden is pressuring me and spamming shimmering shield - very difficult to turn the table... stamwarden doesn’t need magicka for anything else...
Useless to try to catch stamden as magsorc in “capture the relic” with coward and shimmering shield on
PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq0 -
Bam_Bam✭✭✭✭✭
✭FloppyTouch wrote: »Game is not balance around duels ur points are invalid
Open world pvp negate and cc are still very strong best in game no issue
PvE dps is still very good and most trials have sorcs in them
Nothing about duels matter nor should they when talking about balance
Amen.Joined January 2014
PC EU - PvE & BGs & PvP (Vivec)
Grand Master Crafter
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Stream
Lims Kragm'a
Bam Bam Bara0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Valera Progib wrote: »OP, most things you are talking about are irrelevant.
Frags nerf - who cares, 10% is nothing. Without cc, people are more happy to eat a frag in the face, than before.
Rune prison cost - oh cmon, this skill is now extremely usefull and cost is one of the lowest, you can spam it on multiple targets... Sometimes it is impossible to break free from it...
Overload - nobody cares
Magsorc is ok, at least I don’t feel bullied by anyone in duels.
Shimmering shield is annoying though, this skill should be reworked, if stam/mag warden is pressuring me and spamming shimmering shield - very difficult to turn the table... stamwarden doesn’t need magicka for anything else...
Useless to try to catch stamden as magsorc in “capture the relic” with coward and shimmering shield on
10% IS significant. People run slimecraw for 8% and claim its among the best dmg monster sets for some classes.
Rune-Prison... the combo of moving the stun from frag to rune-prison = 2 casts instead of one to get stun + dmg. That's a LOT more cost - especially for DW sorcs who can find room to slot the extra skill - but now have to sacrifice even more damage (on top of that 10% frag nerf) to make up the extra sustain needed for runecage.
Overload - I care. Runecage is potentially very strong with an overload build. BUT sustaining it is tricky (also surviving with one bar (overload) active is VERY hard.
But yeah, magsorc is ok - doesn't need any more nerfs. Only buff I'd like to see is to allow frags to proc from any bar.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I see a fairly even balance of classes being played and that includes mag sorcs so no I don’t think they’re under performing, they’re not just not the fotm anymore.0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Valera Progib wrote: »OP, most things you are talking about are irrelevant.
Frags nerf - who cares, 10% is nothing. Without cc, people are more happy to eat a frag in the face, than before.
Rune prison cost - oh cmon, this skill is now extremely usefull and cost is one of the lowest, you can spam it on multiple targets... Sometimes it is impossible to break free from it...
Overload - nobody cares
Magsorc is ok, at least I don’t feel bullied by anyone in duels.
Shimmering shield is annoying though, this skill should be reworked, if stam/mag warden is pressuring me and spamming shimmering shield - very difficult to turn the table... stamwarden doesn’t need magicka for anything else...
Useless to try to catch stamden as magsorc in “capture the relic” with coward and shimmering shield on
The thing is that sorc have already crowded bars. Yes rune prison is now very useful but sorcs now have to choose dmg/control/utility which leads to more balance.
Many says that shield stack is problem. Did any of you tried to kill good magblade in Cyro? Its almost impossible shadowy image(ofc when it works), cloak and good bye. Or warden with their crazy ulti gen and surviveability? There is many unkillable 1v1 specs but most of the time its the player behind the toon matters so, go there and try it for your self
I have played almost every type of class and I wouldn't say that sorcs are strongest. Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭
10% IS significant. People run slimecraw for 8% and claim its among the best dmg monster sets for some classes.
Rune-Prison... the combo of moving the stun from frag to rune-prison = 2 casts instead of one to get stun + dmg. That's a LOT more cost - especially for DW sorcs who can find room to slot the extra skill - but now have to sacrifice even more damage (on top of that 10% frag nerf) to make up the extra sustain needed for runecage.
Overload - I care. Runecage is potentially very strong with an overload build. BUT sustaining it is tricky (also surviving with one bar (overload) active is VERY hard.
But yeah, magsorc is ok - doesn't need any more nerfs. Only buff I'd like to see is to allow frags to proc from any bar.
Slimecraw gives 8% to all damage. Well, 10% frag damage nerf is a lot, but not game changing, I honestly don't care about it, though, with the cc removal the 10% nerf is ridiculousPC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq0 -
I see there are lots of different opinions and discussions ongoing. Really good that it can be discussed.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »Game is not balance around duels ur points are invalid
Open world pvp negate and cc are still very strong best in game no issue
PvE dps is still very good and most trials have sorcs in them
Nothing about duels matter nor should they when talking about balance
Same thing would be to balance PvE after class performance in vMA0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Valera Progib wrote: »
Slimecraw gives 8% to all damage. Well, 10% frag damage nerf is a lot, but not game changing, I honestly don't care about it, though, with the cc removal the 10% nerf is ridiculous
True - but from the perspective of a high-burst, DW setup - where frag really matters, it IS significant. I mean, its curse/empowered frag/wrath - and out of those, wrath doesn't matter too much since he's dead regardless if it procs - so the only difference in that particular comparison is curse every 3.5 seconds. Yeah, ulti makes a difference too when used. But I definitely feel the loss of that 10% on high-burst builds - to the point where I don't even run them now.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭Poor sorcs. Someday Cyrodiil will be full of nightblades. Nerf nblades.Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language2 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Newton_FirstLaw wrote: »It has been a long time since I saw a nerf sorc thread and for good reasons. I main a sorc and always agreed on nerfing sorcs in the past but imo they overdid themselves now. I was never the best at duelling but considered myself quite a good dueller and I did perform well in these duels with my previous build. Now with all the recent nerfs I completely changed my builld and min/maxed everything. Against other sorcs I most of the time win or either tie, but compared to other classes it slightly underperforms. So this is a shoutout to stop nerfing sorcs for now, we had quite our share. A short list of what directly or inderectly affected sorcs "recently":
1) c-frags: it deserved a nerf, but maybe not 2 nerfs (removed stun, decreased damage by +- 10 %)
2) rune-cage: ok it went from disorient to stun, but the cost increased quite a bit
3) dark deal: increased the cast time
4) completely made the maelstrom destro staff useless in solo PvP (lots of builds ran this)
5) nerfed the necropotence (lots of builds run/ran this)
6) increased the cost of resto ultie (ok this is maybe good, but still it has affected sorcs)
7) Overload Ultimate storage halved
I probably forgot some things but shortly summoned up I have the feeling that sorcs are underperforming compared to other classes this patch. I know I will get people saying: get better or huh sorcs are still too OP, but I would like to have some insight from people who played sorc recently or against them.
I play NB in allmost every possible skilling direction possible(I have 11, and NO healer among tem!). The last years my class got so much needless Nerfs that it my blades are no longer wanted in raids or dungeons etc.
So I can feel with the sorc, with nerfs glooming at the horizon. and I say: let it be!
N O M O R E N E R F S!!!!!
It is getting from bad to worst, and still ppl will complain, because they were killed in Cyro by this or that ability. It is not the classes that needs nerfs, it is the brains that needs a nerf! It is normal to die in PvP, it is even essential to die, otherwise there would be no movement and the map wouldn´t be very dynamic.
N O N E R F!!!!
let´s make it possible!1 -
Drummerx04✭✭✭✭✭
✭I guess I'll weigh in here as a long time magsorc.
All the latest sorc changes worked out about exactly as I expected.- Frag stun loss really only hurt average to low skill sorcs who can no longer get a lucky stun to help them out.
- Rune Cage sounds fantastic on paper and works quite well in practice, but somehow everyone overlooks cost of casting it in the extra skill slot, global cooldown, and magicka. Why don't I use it? I can't justify removing any of the skills on my bar. Vampire drain has been an unblockable - and I think undodgeable - stun for years, and I never slotted that either.
The reality of Cyrodiil is also pretty harsh on magsorc as well.
The best mobility in the game: 1 stamina player with a snare is often enough to allow the zerg to catch up or make escaping almost impossible. Hell, half the time 20+ players will literally take turns mounting up to chase me down while the ones on the ground spam CC and snares.
Shield stacking: Survives periodic burst very well, but sustained pressure wrecks it, and once those shields do go down... your health can disappear real quick.
Sorc burst: The full combo is among the most telegraphed combo in the game. There are also quite a few damage builds that can tank the full combo to the face, and heal to full before the next combo.
I really don't understand why shield stacking triggers people so much. There are so many builds out there on every class that are pretty hard to deal with...- permablocking magDK with a bunch of dots that also heal them + battle roar
- mistforming HA S&B templars, you can barely chase them because their healing ground effects also snare everything
- Wardens with their trees, purge, cone heal, trellis, shimmering armor
- shield stacking magNB with shade port (when not broken) and cloak which force misses direct damage AND DOTS
- Tanks in general, and btw there are a lot of full or semi tanks in this meta
- Perma dodge LoSing stam builds
Most if not all of the above mentioned build styles are also capable of delivering significant amounts of burst or sustained pressure. DK and templar in particular make good use of Skoria, which amounts to a mini ultimate every 10 seconds.
And before the NBs come out of the woodworks to complain about cloak, don't make me laugh. I slotted some invis pots again recently, and just... wow. I escaped 1v10+ odds actively trying to kill me 4+ times yesterday with an invisibility effect tied to a 45 second cooldown and 16 second duration. I have no pity for you at all.Sorcs are good as is. Dodge should buffed. All effects should be dodgeable.
All effects? If you can't see the problem with that, then I can't help you.
And to touch on magsorc PvE... There are still people who think magsorc is top tier dps 50k+ ranged ST and that raid groups are still 7 pet sorc dps. Enough said.PC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
Lilith Arujo - DC sorc tank/dps/healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Gryphon Heart, Grand Warlord
Lilith Tortorici - DC templar trials healer
Notable Completions:
vAS (72k), vMoL HM (160k), vAA HM (135k), vHRC HM, vSO HM (141k), vHoF HM (168k), vCR+3(129k), vDSA 45k, vMA 591k
Original Addons:
Lilith's Group Manager
Lilith's Lazy Hacks - Auto Recharge/Repair
Bot Scanner 2000
Lilith's Command History
Maintained Addons:
Kill Counter2 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Remove Implosion as it's the stupidest skill in the game with little too no counter play. Mages wrath should not place a bomb on your enemy that procs at 20% health. It steals kills in battle grounds and is stupid in general. Give frags it's 10% damage backFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
And replace it with....? Something nice please - Implosion is a trash skill. I'd love something useful instead (would be hard on stamsorcs tho).. Perhaps a free +15% to all recov stats? 8% max mag? Free resources on ulti use? I'm not fussy.Remove Implosion as it's the stupidest skill in the game with little too no counter play.
It's just a slightly more bursty poison injection.. But to compete with other executes - you remove the delay, and you'd have to up the threshold to 25% and probably the damage too. Or (Personally), I'd like to see the non-execute dmg higher to give DW sorcs a nod.Mages wrath should not place a bomb on your enemy that procs at 20% health. It steals kills in battle grounds and is stupid in general. Give frags it's 10% damage back
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »
Hi, Nightblade here since 4.4.2014 and the only thing we were getting are 24/7 nerfs so grow up and deal with it.
And what makes your class the special snowflake? All classes have been gutted and nerfed since Launch.
Yes, even sorcerers.1 -
VizigothAlaric✭✭✭I am sick of this threads coming back all the *** time tbh.
From pve end-game perspective tbh sorcs are really good balanced atm.
They cannot seperate buffs,nerfs pvp-pve why do u want them to *** this class again specially stam sorc in pve atm...
I hope they *** remove the class and put a new one with expension so ppl can enjoy payin for playin class...Edited by VizigothAlaric on December 11, 2017 4:01PMVizi - PC EU1 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I don't want the Crystal Frag stun back nearly as much I want the extra 10% damage that got taken away with the earlier Frag nerf. This spell is so difficult to land now, it NEEDS to hit HARD.
If Miats PvP crutch add-on goes away I'd feel much better about my frags nerfs.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not even the highest dps in game.
The desto ayslum nerf was ridiculously sad. They should consider relooking at sustain cost for this is just sad.
Dark deal is useless as cast time was overall going up to 1.4 secs. Just can't use in Pve with active gameplay.0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »
If Miats PvP crutch add-on goes away I'd feel much better about my frags nerfs.
I kind of think the new rune-prison was added specifically with miats in mind - but obviously without bearing in mind the slot-limitations sorc has.
It does work well on DW builds - especially against perma-blockers/rollers. But the combination of damage loss from frag-nerf and in the build due to necessary recov for it means that although you can land your burst - it just isn't enough - especially in this semi-tanky meta. Fights are all stalemates with it and it essentially it ends up being another Xv1 tool.
I much prefer mobility now, but even then it only really lets you pick n choose your fights. Playing sorc is an exercise in finding weaklings to burst while running from and/or out-sustaining the rest.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Newton_FirstLaw wrote: »It has been a long time since I saw a nerf sorc thread and for good reasons. I main a sorc and always agreed on nerfing sorcs in the past but imo they overdid themselves now. I was never the best at duelling but considered myself quite a good dueller and I did perform well in these duels with my previous build. Now with all the recent nerfs I completely changed my builld and min/maxed everything. Against other sorcs I most of the time win or either tie, but compared to other classes it slightly underperforms. So this is a shoutout to stop nerfing sorcs for now, we had quite our share. A short list of what directly or inderectly affected sorcs "recently":
1) c-frags: it deserved a nerf, but maybe not 2 nerfs (removed stun, decreased damage by +- 10 %)
2) rune-cage: ok it went from disorient to stun, but the cost increased quite a bit
3) dark deal: increased the cast time
4) completely made the maelstrom destro staff useless in solo PvP (lots of builds ran this)
5) nerfed the necropotence (lots of builds run/ran this)
6) increased the cost of resto ultie (ok this is maybe good, but still it has affected sorcs)
7) Overload Ultimate storage halved
I probably forgot some things but shortly summoned up I have the feeling that sorcs are underperforming compared to other classes this patch. I know I will get people saying: get better or huh sorcs are still too OP, but I would like to have some insight from people who played sorc recently or against them.
Your saying previously you won a lot and now not so much. There is an explanation for this other than sorcs having been overnerfed...0
