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• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 6, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
Monthly Combat Update – November
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Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wow man, your stam doesnt go under 51% - you can block forever. you do realize this is the kind of things ZOS is trying to eliminate right?
Hmm... you seem to have completely missed the point. I used examples from before the blocking and healing nerf to show that you canot have half decent damage and tank like that. It's even more impossible now. Also I did drop below 50% stam. I just use a potion or ult to get my 5-7k stam back.
If you want to see what my tanking is like now (after doubled block cost) just watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwNacQgFVQ&feature=youtu.be
no, i got your point and i do very much appreciate your responses and posting of actual footage of your build in action. It's like you had nothing to hide, you know? very honest responses and thank you again.
regardless, I fought against you a few times in BGs and it was just one of the least fun experiences i had ever had. primarily because we were doing domination and you were simply unkillable.
The most recent video still displays a high degree of survivability that is beyond the average ability to survive. Its not fun when opponents dont die. Props for making the build work, i really mean that, you know, no cheese, legit making it work, but i still think it does more harm than good.
I haven't used my damage build much recently so I can't relate to the frustration of fighting tanks anymore. Apparently it annoys everyone quite a bit... But believe me i'm kill able and when I manage to survive an entire fight its a lot of fun for me.
Guaranteed way to kill anyone (including me): Dawn breaker + jabs. Only requirements are that dawnbreaker stuns the target and you have enough crit chance and damage. Kills me from full health every time. Granted only a few players can pull this off and usually require a healer so they don't die first.
But yeah I don't think that stam DK's, stam/magic sorcs, stam/magic wardens or magic nightblades have any good way of killing me in a small scale fight. Only stamplars and stamblades can steam roll me with burst damage. Really makes me wonder why those 2 extremes aren't acknowledged as much as my tanking.
Another thing; I always end up tanking on my mDK because there is nothing more effective. It's the exact same reason stamplars end up with that dawnbreaker + jabs combo. If fire leap did a DoT instead of giving me a shield i'd be just as good at killing as a stamplar minus the movement mechanics. But wrobel is very insistent that mDK's are for holding your ground and not steam rolling pugs. That is left to the stamplars.
I just wanted to highlight what @Veg stated- yet it seems to get ignored. While his permablocking is extreme and ZoS wants to "take a look" at it- ZoS hasn't addressed some of these quick shot combo builds that damn near instakill anyone. Being instakilled is just as annoying as fighting an unkillable player.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren6 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭wow man, your stam doesnt go under 51% - you can block forever. you do realize this is the kind of things ZOS is trying to eliminate right?
Hmm... you seem to have completely missed the point. I used examples from before the blocking and healing nerf to show that you canot have half decent damage and tank like that. It's even more impossible now. Also I did drop below 50% stam. I just use a potion or ult to get my 5-7k stam back.
If you want to see what my tanking is like now (after doubled block cost) just watch this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwNacQgFVQ&feature=youtu.be
no, i got your point and i do very much appreciate your responses and posting of actual footage of your build in action. It's like you had nothing to hide, you know? very honest responses and thank you again.
regardless, I fought against you a few times in BGs and it was just one of the least fun experiences i had ever had. primarily because we were doing domination and you were simply unkillable.
The most recent video still displays a high degree of survivability that is beyond the average ability to survive. Its not fun when opponents dont die. Props for making the build work, i really mean that, you know, no cheese, legit making it work, but i still think it does more harm than good.
I haven't used my damage build much recently so I can't relate to the frustration of fighting tanks anymore. Apparently it annoys everyone quite a bit... But believe me i'm kill able and when I manage to survive an entire fight its a lot of fun for me.
Guaranteed way to kill anyone (including me): Dawn breaker + jabs. Only requirements are that dawnbreaker stuns the target and you have enough crit chance and damage. Kills me from full health every time. Granted only a few players can pull this off and usually require a healer so they don't die first.
But yeah I don't think that stam DK's, stam/magic sorcs, stam/magic wardens or magic nightblades have any good way of killing me in a small scale fight. Only stamplars and stamblades can steam roll me with burst damage. Really makes me wonder why those 2 extremes aren't acknowledged as much as my tanking.
Another thing; I always end up tanking on my mDK because there is nothing more effective. It's the exact same reason stamplars end up with that dawnbreaker + jabs combo. If fire leap did a DoT instead of giving me a shield i'd be just as good at killing as a stamplar minus the movement mechanics. But wrobel is very insistent that mDK's are for holding your ground and not steam rolling pugs. That is left to the stamplars.
I just wanted to highlight what @Veg stated- yet it seems to get ignored. While his permablocking is extreme and ZoS wants to "take a look" at it- ZoS hasn't addressed some of these quick shot combo builds that damn near instakill anyone. Being instakilled is just as annoying as fighting an unkillable player.
I totally agree, it would be wise to eliminate the 1-2 punch kill gameplay (looking at you, DBoS) in tandem with addressing the extreme survivability issues.
YET it's the instant death combos that ZOS is specifically endorsing - stamina Warden makes this obvious. What a gross miscarriage and disaster that class is. I'll just end my comment here before I start saying rude things that could get me banned.0 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wow man, your stam doesnt go under 51% - you can block forever. you do realize this is the kind of things ZOS is trying to eliminate right?
Hmm... you seem to have completely missed the point. I used examples from before the blocking and healing nerf to show that you canot have half decent damage and tank like that. It's even more impossible now. Also I did drop below 50% stam. I just use a potion or ult to get my 5-7k stam back.
If you want to see what my tanking is like now (after doubled block cost) just watch this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwNacQgFVQ&feature=youtu.be
no, i got your point and i do very much appreciate your responses and posting of actual footage of your build in action. It's like you had nothing to hide, you know? very honest responses and thank you again.
regardless, I fought against you a few times in BGs and it was just one of the least fun experiences i had ever had. primarily because we were doing domination and you were simply unkillable.
The most recent video still displays a high degree of survivability that is beyond the average ability to survive. Its not fun when opponents dont die. Props for making the build work, i really mean that, you know, no cheese, legit making it work, but i still think it does more harm than good.
I haven't used my damage build much recently so I can't relate to the frustration of fighting tanks anymore. Apparently it annoys everyone quite a bit... But believe me i'm kill able and when I manage to survive an entire fight its a lot of fun for me.
Guaranteed way to kill anyone (including me): Dawn breaker + jabs. Only requirements are that dawnbreaker stuns the target and you have enough crit chance and damage. Kills me from full health every time. Granted only a few players can pull this off and usually require a healer so they don't die first.
But yeah I don't think that stam DK's, stam/magic sorcs, stam/magic wardens or magic nightblades have any good way of killing me in a small scale fight. Only stamplars and stamblades can steam roll me with burst damage. Really makes me wonder why those 2 extremes aren't acknowledged as much as my tanking.
Another thing; I always end up tanking on my mDK because there is nothing more effective. It's the exact same reason stamplars end up with that dawnbreaker + jabs combo. If fire leap did a DoT instead of giving me a shield i'd be just as good at killing as a stamplar minus the movement mechanics. But wrobel is very insistent that mDK's are for holding your ground and not steam rolling pugs. That is left to the stamplars.
I just wanted to highlight what @Veg stated- yet it seems to get ignored. While his permablocking is extreme and ZoS wants to "take a look" at it- ZoS hasn't addressed some of these quick shot combo builds that damn near instakill anyone. Being instakilled is just as annoying as fighting an unkillable player.
I totally agree, it would be wise to eliminate the 1-2 punch kill gameplay (looking at you, DBoS) in tandem with addressing the extreme survivability issues.
YET it's the instant death combos that ZOS is specifically endorsing - stamina Warden makes this obvious. What a gross miscarriage and disaster that class is. I'll just end my comment here before I start saying rude things that could get me banned.
While I wholeheartedly agree that stamWarden is overperforming, I'll speak up in favor of the possibility of quick kills in PVP. Part of the fun of PVP is that it feels dangerous. Maybe it's the Dark Souls player in me, but PVP would lose a lot of its appeal for many of us if it turned into a Skyrim-esque pillowfight.
What there shouldn't be is the possiblity of builds that can pull off such powerful burst combos while also being extraordinarily tanky, being able to wear heavy armor, having access to powerful heals, and being able to provide immense group support (looking at you, stamWarden). My stamplar can pull off very quick kills with DBoS -> Jabs, but he isn't going to survive being focused unless I have quick access to effective LOS or a healer buddy nearby, because I have to give up a lot of survivability in order to achieve my 6k weapon damage. The problem with stamWardens isn't that they can kill things as quickly as my stamplar can, it's that they can do so without the tradeoffs the rest of us have to make.
I'll also say that if you get "insta"-killed 1v1 in this game, it's almost always because you did something wrong or your opponent outmaneuvered you. Quick death in both of those cases is warranted.Edited by casparian on November 10, 2017 3:02PM7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.3 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭wow man, your stam doesnt go under 51% - you can block forever. you do realize this is the kind of things ZOS is trying to eliminate right?
Hmm... you seem to have completely missed the point. I used examples from before the blocking and healing nerf to show that you canot have half decent damage and tank like that. It's even more impossible now. Also I did drop below 50% stam. I just use a potion or ult to get my 5-7k stam back.
If you want to see what my tanking is like now (after doubled block cost) just watch this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwNacQgFVQ&feature=youtu.be
no, i got your point and i do very much appreciate your responses and posting of actual footage of your build in action. It's like you had nothing to hide, you know? very honest responses and thank you again.
regardless, I fought against you a few times in BGs and it was just one of the least fun experiences i had ever had. primarily because we were doing domination and you were simply unkillable.
The most recent video still displays a high degree of survivability that is beyond the average ability to survive. Its not fun when opponents dont die. Props for making the build work, i really mean that, you know, no cheese, legit making it work, but i still think it does more harm than good.
I haven't used my damage build much recently so I can't relate to the frustration of fighting tanks anymore. Apparently it annoys everyone quite a bit... But believe me i'm kill able and when I manage to survive an entire fight its a lot of fun for me.
Guaranteed way to kill anyone (including me): Dawn breaker + jabs. Only requirements are that dawnbreaker stuns the target and you have enough crit chance and damage. Kills me from full health every time. Granted only a few players can pull this off and usually require a healer so they don't die first.
But yeah I don't think that stam DK's, stam/magic sorcs, stam/magic wardens or magic nightblades have any good way of killing me in a small scale fight. Only stamplars and stamblades can steam roll me with burst damage. Really makes me wonder why those 2 extremes aren't acknowledged as much as my tanking.
Another thing; I always end up tanking on my mDK because there is nothing more effective. It's the exact same reason stamplars end up with that dawnbreaker + jabs combo. If fire leap did a DoT instead of giving me a shield i'd be just as good at killing as a stamplar minus the movement mechanics. But wrobel is very insistent that mDK's are for holding your ground and not steam rolling pugs. That is left to the stamplars.
I just wanted to highlight what @Veg stated- yet it seems to get ignored. While his permablocking is extreme and ZoS wants to "take a look" at it- ZoS hasn't addressed some of these quick shot combo builds that damn near instakill anyone. Being instakilled is just as annoying as fighting an unkillable player.
I totally agree, it would be wise to eliminate the 1-2 punch kill gameplay (looking at you, DBoS) in tandem with addressing the extreme survivability issues.
YET it's the instant death combos that ZOS is specifically endorsing - stamina Warden makes this obvious. What a gross miscarriage and disaster that class is. I'll just end my comment here before I start saying rude things that could get me banned.
While I wholeheartedly agree that stamWarden is overperforming, I'll speak up in favor of the possibility of quick kills in PVP. Part of the fun of PVP is that it feels dangerous. Maybe it's the Dark Souls player in me, but PVP would lose a lot of its appeal for many of us if it turned into a Skyrim-esque pillowfight.
What there shouldn't be is the possiblity of builds that can pull off such powerful burst combos while also being extraordinarily tanky, being able to wear heavy armor, having access to powerful heals, and being able to provide immense group support (looking at you, stamWarden). My stamplar can pull off very quick kills with DBoS -> Jabs, but he isn't going to survive being focused unless I have quick access to effective LOS or a healer buddy nearby, because I have to give up a lot of survivability in order to achieve my 6k weapon damage. The problem with stamWardens isn't that they can kill things as quickly as my stamplar can, it's that they can do so without the tradeoffs the rest of us have to make.
I'll also say that if you get "insta"-killed 1v1 in this game, it's almost always because you did something wrong or your opponent outmaneuvered you. Quick death in both of those cases is warranted.
I definitely don't want a pillow fight either - I think under normal circumstances, kills should only be as fast as ~4-5 globals unless the target is in defensive mode. This is already the case for most magicka builds (ie magsorc) and several stamina builds.
If we're being honest, it's really Dawnbreaker of Smiting that is over-tuned, and it's not necessarily the damage but the stun... It should lose the stun IMO. The morph choices are then still very attractive, offering good passive damage with great ult damage OR great ult damage with good passive damage.
Other things that should be gently addressed are Implosion and Scorch/Dive. Also they should return the scaling mechanic to Death Stroke!
But let's be real about the current state of 1-shots - the vast majority of times it doesn't happen because you made a gameplay mistake, it just happens because you were wearing medium/light armor.3 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This sounds great!@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wow man, your stam doesnt go under 51% - you can block forever. you do realize this is the kind of things ZOS is trying to eliminate right?
Hmm... you seem to have completely missed the point. I used examples from before the blocking and healing nerf to show that you canot have half decent damage and tank like that. It's even more impossible now. Also I did drop below 50% stam. I just use a potion or ult to get my 5-7k stam back.
If you want to see what my tanking is like now (after doubled block cost) just watch this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwNacQgFVQ&feature=youtu.be
no, i got your point and i do very much appreciate your responses and posting of actual footage of your build in action. It's like you had nothing to hide, you know? very honest responses and thank you again.
regardless, I fought against you a few times in BGs and it was just one of the least fun experiences i had ever had. primarily because we were doing domination and you were simply unkillable.
The most recent video still displays a high degree of survivability that is beyond the average ability to survive. Its not fun when opponents dont die. Props for making the build work, i really mean that, you know, no cheese, legit making it work, but i still think it does more harm than good.
I haven't used my damage build much recently so I can't relate to the frustration of fighting tanks anymore. Apparently it annoys everyone quite a bit... But believe me i'm kill able and when I manage to survive an entire fight its a lot of fun for me.
Guaranteed way to kill anyone (including me): Dawn breaker + jabs. Only requirements are that dawnbreaker stuns the target and you have enough crit chance and damage. Kills me from full health every time. Granted only a few players can pull this off and usually require a healer so they don't die first.
But yeah I don't think that stam DK's, stam/magic sorcs, stam/magic wardens or magic nightblades have any good way of killing me in a small scale fight. Only stamplars and stamblades can steam roll me with burst damage. Really makes me wonder why those 2 extremes aren't acknowledged as much as my tanking.
Another thing; I always end up tanking on my mDK because there is nothing more effective. It's the exact same reason stamplars end up with that dawnbreaker + jabs combo. If fire leap did a DoT instead of giving me a shield i'd be just as good at killing as a stamplar minus the movement mechanics. But wrobel is very insistent that mDK's are for holding your ground and not steam rolling pugs. That is left to the stamplars.
I just wanted to highlight what @Veg stated- yet it seems to get ignored. While his permablocking is extreme and ZoS wants to "take a look" at it- ZoS hasn't addressed some of these quick shot combo builds that damn near instakill anyone. Being instakilled is just as annoying as fighting an unkillable player.
I totally agree, it would be wise to eliminate the 1-2 punch kill gameplay (looking at you, DBoS) in tandem with addressing the extreme survivability issues.
YET it's the instant death combos that ZOS is specifically endorsing - stamina Warden makes this obvious. What a gross miscarriage and disaster that class is. I'll just end my comment here before I start saying rude things that could get me banned.
While I wholeheartedly agree that stamWarden is overperforming, I'll speak up in favor of the possibility of quick kills in PVP. Part of the fun of PVP is that it feels dangerous. Maybe it's the Dark Souls player in me, but PVP would lose a lot of its appeal for many of us if it turned into a Skyrim-esque pillowfight.
What there shouldn't be is the possiblity of builds that can pull off such powerful burst combos while also being extraordinarily tanky, being able to wear heavy armor, having access to powerful heals, and being able to provide immense group support (looking at you, stamWarden). My stamplar can pull off very quick kills with DBoS -> Jabs, but he isn't going to survive being focused unless I have quick access to effective LOS or a healer buddy nearby, because I have to give up a lot of survivability in order to achieve my 6k weapon damage. The problem with stamWardens isn't that they can kill things as quickly as my stamplar can, it's that they can do so without the tradeoffs the rest of us have to make.
I'll also say that if you get "insta"-killed 1v1 in this game, it's almost always because you did something wrong or your opponent outmaneuvered you. Quick death in both of those cases is warranted.
I definitely don't want a pillow fight either - I think under normal circumstances, kills should only be as fast as ~4-5 globals unless the target is in defensive mode. This is already the case for most magicka builds (ie magsorc) and several stamina builds.
If we're being honest, it's really Dawnbreaker of Smiting that is over-tuned, and it's not necessarily the damage but the stun... It should lose the stun IMO. The morph choices are then still very attractive, offering good passive damage with great ult damage OR great ult damage with good passive damage.
Other things that should be gently addressed are Implosion and Scorch/Dive. Also they should return the scaling mechanic to Death Stroke!
But let's be real about the current state of 1-shots - the vast majority of times it doesn't happen because you made a gameplay mistake, it just happens because you were wearing medium/light armor.
As a light armor magplar/medium armor stamplar, I can't disagree with this
7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.1 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭And again... getting dragged into the skill and class balance arguments.
Thanks a lot guys!
We won't be seeing any more of these threads.
Ah well... it was too good to last. ZOS gave us phones, we used them to play Angry Birds on it instead for communication.4 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »
Just lolZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »[*] Synergies are the way to help groups be stronger than solo players, damage and resource sustain should always be better while in a group
because outnumbering a solo player isn't strong enough is it?
Lets just carry mindless players who already abuse broken abilities coupled with siphoner and befouled cp to a point where player skill is even more irrelevant...
No freaking crap.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
He he. Switch around the words heals for shields in these posts and it would be right at home in any 'nerf sorc' thread
Seriously though, I agree with some of the other posters here. Both damage and defence simply scale too much. I tried a build not long ago that hit one guy for a 16.5k on a single overload light attack but against the next guy, hits for just over 1k (if not dodged). That difference is massive.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
DoonerSeraph✭✭✭✭Big thumbs up for communication, thanks
As many people have said, you need to thread carefully on the block changes to not destroy PvE tanks, and mantain value of the cost reduction glyphs.
IMO Introducing a set to increase block cost on enemy is a bad idea, if we look at an example we have a set to balance shield stacking (shieldbreaker) and the results werent positive.
Champion system would be the way to go, a counter to Shadow Ward. Just dont forget about people who play non-CP pvp otherwise you will just take care of half of the problem.
Thanks again for the communication.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »Good choice on addressing synergies.
E.g., non-Templar healers would like to make heavy use of Energy Orb, but many teammates understandably fail to grab the synergy as it floats by.
And of course the whole idea of one player "stealing" a synergy from teammates has always been weird.
It would also help if the cooldown was somehow shown. We are tossing orbs... but what if the ally already used them? On a related note maybe if orbs worked like a boomrang then it would help with using it?0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Test making the following changes to make Heavy Attacks feel better:
Shorten the Heavy Attack cooldown to approximately 300ms from 700ms
Shorten the global cast speed penalty of Heavy Attacks to 50% from 75%
I might be the only one trying... but it must be mentioned it's really hard to sustain asylum frost desto staff. It's very fun, but feels a bit like it might have gone unnoticed in testing after the initial changes.Edited by Tasear on November 12, 2017 11:29PM0 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭Great communication and good suggestions.
However, the solution to permablock is making it work frontally only. It's really stupid to block an attack on your back.Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.2 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mainly, please fix all the shadow image bugs (this skill is vital for PVP) and also fix healing not working in trials (also needs a hotfix asap)!!0 -
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Synergies are the way to help groups be stronger than solo players, damage and resource sustain should always be better while in a group
Facepalm.2 -
IxSTALKERxI✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think you guys need to look at healing: it's way too strong in PVP.
Healing is quite strong at the moment and there are multiple reasons for this.
1. Earthgore is quite powerful.
2. Power creep (this also applies to damage, not just healing) At the moment players health bars are going up and down like a yo-yo. There is very high amounts of damage followed by very high amounts of healing. Earthgore aside, I feel like both healing and damage in the game is too strong by around 10% imo. (light armor users feel they need to wear defensive sets such as wizards riposte & players tend to run 10% higher base health pools on average than they used to in order to survive.) Also worth noting that players strongly dislike balancing via battlespirit which has been done in the past.
_______________________________________________________
Despite being nerfs to sharpened, crit mundus stones, item 5 sets and proc sets there was a few changes in HotR patch which benefited healing / damage.
-Earthgore was added to game.
-Nirnhoned: Increased the bonus to the weapon’s damage to 15% from 11%. (increasing self heals / off heals on dps builds)
-Powered: Increased the bonus to healing done to 9% from 7%.
- 2,3,4 set bonuses were changed.
Max Health, Magicka, or Stamina has been increased by 13.3%
Weapon Critical or Spell Critical rating has been increased by 21% (this increases crit healing)
Physical or Spell Resistance has been increased by 13.8% (only specific sets have these bonuses, the dps sets stack all offensive stats and defensive sets offer lots of defensive stats creating large disparity between dps builds and tank builds)
The Apprentice: Increased Spell Damage to 238 from 167.
The Mage: Increased Max Magicka to 2028 from 1320.
The Tower: Increased Max Stamina to 2028 from 1320.
The Warrior: Increased Weapon Damage to 238 from 167.
(this increases the power of self heals / off heals for those not using ritual)
On top of this we get more champion points to dump into crit damage/ crit healing which is amplified by some of the crit buffs etc.
Whilst diversity was achieved from nerfing sharpened and crit mundus stones - there still ended up a power creep and healing got quite a bit of a buff especially self healing and off healing on dps builds.
@Eirella @Joy_DivisionEdited by IxSTALKERxI on November 14, 2017 9:10AMNA | PC | Aldmeri DominionLaser Eyes AR 26 Arcanist | Stalker V AR 41 Warden | I Stalker I AR 42 NB | Stalkersaurus AR 31 Templar | Stalker Ill AR 31 Sorc | Nigel the Great of BlackwaterFormer Emperor x11 campaign cyclesVenatus Officer | RIP RÁGE | YouTube Channel2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IxSTALKERxI wrote: »I think you guys need to look at healing: it's way too strong in PVP.
Healing is quite strong at the moment and there are multiple reasons for this.
1. Earthgore is quite powerful.
2. Power creep (this also applies to damage, not just healing) At the moment players health bars are going up and down like a yo-yo. There is very high amounts of damage followed by very high amounts of healing. Earthgore aside, I feel like both healing and damage in the game is too strong by around 10% imo. (light armor users feel they need to wear defensive sets such as wizards riposte & players tend to run 10% higher base health pools on average than they used to in order to survive.) Also worth noting that players strongly dislike balancing via battlespirit which has been done in the past.
_______________________________________________________
Despite being nerfs to sharpened, crit mundus stones, item 5 sets and proc sets there was a few changes in HotR patch which benefited healing / damage.
-Earthgore was added to game.
-Nirnhoned: Increased the bonus to the weapon’s damage to 15% from 11%. (increasing self heals / off heals on dps builds)
-Powered: Increased the bonus to healing done to 9% from 7%.
- 2,3,4 set bonuses were changed.
Max Health, Magicka, or Stamina has been increased by 13.3%
Weapon Critical or Spell Critical rating has been increased by 21% (this increases crit healing)
Physical or Spell Resistance has been increased by 13.8% (only specific sets have these bonuses, the dps sets stack all offensive stats and defensive sets offer lots of defensive stats creating large disparity between dps builds and tank builds)
The Apprentice: Increased Spell Damage to 238 from 167.
The Mage: Increased Max Magicka to 2028 from 1320.
The Tower: Increased Max Stamina to 2028 from 1320.
The Warrior: Increased Weapon Damage to 238 from 167.
(this increases the power of self heals / off heals for those not using ritual)
On top of this we get more champion points to dump into crit damage/ crit healing which is amplified by some of the crit buffs etc.
Whilst diversity was achieved from nerfing sharpened and crit mundus stones - there still ended up a power creep and healing got quite a bit of a buff especially self healing and off healing on dps builds.
@Eirella @Joy_Division
Yes and No.
Earthgore is a OP set. Classes and the game overall has lost much of its appeal to me anyway because ZoS keeps nerfing them because there is too much easily accessible generic power that has replaced what our classes once did. This ZoS trend needed to stop two years ago. We should not be asking them to continue it.
Morrowind did increase a lot of the ancillary mechanics that effect healing such as max magicka and the mundas stones. It had to because they nerfed sharpened in half, so it was how they compensated to ensure DPs didn't take too much of a hit.
But there is still relatively less healing because they put a pretty hefty nerf on on both stars in the champion system that had to do with healing: Blessed and Quick Recovery were once capped at at 25% and now they only cap out at 15%. This aside from the fact that someone who uses The Atronach or Lover or Shadow mundas stones won't have these ancillary buffs effect their healing in the first place.
And let's not forget that Defile has become more accessible and that was buffed too.
I've hit Honor the Dead tens of thousands of times while in Cyrodiil and that perspective is not diluted playing other class with burst healing such as a DK or a Rally user. For a long, long time, under normal combat conditions, my non-crit default Honor cast was about 7400. Now that value is about 6100. No more major mending, CP healing nerfs, assorted Templar passives nerfs, need to spec for more recovery because Morrowind, et al, all have taken their toll. And that's not even mentioning poisons, debuffs, and the prevalence of defile and other assorted poisons/debuffs, which do this:
and
So I and every templar has to get stuck with that because ball-groups are running around with some ridiculous set? Healing is so easily countered - unlike shields and block - that people don't need more of ZoS's nerfs to baby them in cyrodiil.Edited by Joy_Division on November 14, 2017 2:56PM3 -
Eirella✭✭✭✭✭@Joy_Division @IxSTALKERxI
Interesting, you both make really good points!
Idk, all I'm saying is that when I am trying to kill one person and 3+ people behind that person are spamming heals and keeping them alive, it's just frustrating xD. I guess that is just a 1vX problem though >_<
Also Joy, sorry for my kind of snarky comment to you a few days ago (the "sure, whatever") I must have been having a bad day or something
Edited by Eirella on November 14, 2017 3:16PM0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IxSTALKERxI wrote: »I think you guys need to look at healing: it's way too strong in PVP.
Healing is quite strong at the moment and there are multiple reasons for this.
1. Earthgore is quite powerful.
2. Power creep (this also applies to damage, not just healing) At the moment players health bars are going up and down like a yo-yo. There is very high amounts of damage followed by very high amounts of healing. Earthgore aside, I feel like both healing and damage in the game is too strong by around 10% imo. (light armor users feel they need to wear defensive sets such as wizards riposte & players tend to run 10% higher base health pools on average than they used to in order to survive.) Also worth noting that players strongly dislike balancing via battlespirit which has been done in the past.
_______________________________________________________
Despite being nerfs to sharpened, crit mundus stones, item 5 sets and proc sets there was a few changes in HotR patch which benefited healing / damage.
-Earthgore was added to game.
-Nirnhoned: Increased the bonus to the weapon’s damage to 15% from 11%. (increasing self heals / off heals on dps builds)
-Powered: Increased the bonus to healing done to 9% from 7%.
- 2,3,4 set bonuses were changed.
Max Health, Magicka, or Stamina has been increased by 13.3%
Weapon Critical or Spell Critical rating has been increased by 21% (this increases crit healing)
Physical or Spell Resistance has been increased by 13.8% (only specific sets have these bonuses, the dps sets stack all offensive stats and defensive sets offer lots of defensive stats creating large disparity between dps builds and tank builds)
The Apprentice: Increased Spell Damage to 238 from 167.
The Mage: Increased Max Magicka to 2028 from 1320.
The Tower: Increased Max Stamina to 2028 from 1320.
The Warrior: Increased Weapon Damage to 238 from 167.
(this increases the power of self heals / off heals for those not using ritual)
On top of this we get more champion points to dump into crit damage/ crit healing which is amplified by some of the crit buffs etc.
Whilst diversity was achieved from nerfing sharpened and crit mundus stones - there still ended up a power creep and healing got quite a bit of a buff especially self healing and off healing on dps builds.
@Eirella @Joy_Division
There´s also a huge amount of minor/major buffs that will increase your healing done and healing received + HP-recovery. They´re probably the main villain here. Not specific sets.2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IxSTALKERxI wrote: »I think you guys need to look at healing: it's way too strong in PVP.
Healing is quite strong at the moment and there are multiple reasons for this.
1. Earthgore is quite powerful.
2. Power creep (this also applies to damage, not just healing) At the moment players health bars are going up and down like a yo-yo. There is very high amounts of damage followed by very high amounts of healing. Earthgore aside, I feel like both healing and damage in the game is too strong by around 10% imo. (light armor users feel they need to wear defensive sets such as wizards riposte & players tend to run 10% higher base health pools on average than they used to in order to survive.) Also worth noting that players strongly dislike balancing via battlespirit which has been done in the past.
_______________________________________________________
Despite being nerfs to sharpened, crit mundus stones, item 5 sets and proc sets there was a few changes in HotR patch which benefited healing / damage.
-Earthgore was added to game.
-Nirnhoned: Increased the bonus to the weapon’s damage to 15% from 11%. (increasing self heals / off heals on dps builds)
-Powered: Increased the bonus to healing done to 9% from 7%.
- 2,3,4 set bonuses were changed.
Max Health, Magicka, or Stamina has been increased by 13.3%
Weapon Critical or Spell Critical rating has been increased by 21% (this increases crit healing)
Physical or Spell Resistance has been increased by 13.8% (only specific sets have these bonuses, the dps sets stack all offensive stats and defensive sets offer lots of defensive stats creating large disparity between dps builds and tank builds)
The Apprentice: Increased Spell Damage to 238 from 167.
The Mage: Increased Max Magicka to 2028 from 1320.
The Tower: Increased Max Stamina to 2028 from 1320.
The Warrior: Increased Weapon Damage to 238 from 167.
(this increases the power of self heals / off heals for those not using ritual)
On top of this we get more champion points to dump into crit damage/ crit healing which is amplified by some of the crit buffs etc.
Whilst diversity was achieved from nerfing sharpened and crit mundus stones - there still ended up a power creep and healing got quite a bit of a buff especially self healing and off healing on dps builds.
@Eirella @Joy_Division
There´s also a huge amount of minor/major buffs that will increase your healing done and healing received + HP-recovery. They´re probably the main villain here. Not specific sets.
Huge amount? Please be specific.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Joy_Division @IxSTALKERxI
Interesting, you both make really good points!
Idk, all I'm saying is that when I am trying to kill one person and 3+ people behind that person are spamming heals and keeping them alive, it's just frustrating xD. I guess that is just a 1vX problem though >_<
Also Joy, sorry for my kind of snarky comment to you a few days ago (the "sure, whatever") I must have been having a bad day or something
It's OK. I can totally see how trying to 1vX the past year would have that effect.0 -
kookster✭✭✭✭
This is absolutely awesome, thank you for being so transparent. This seriously makes me very happy to see and is exciting to have a glimpse of whats going on behind the scene.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We’d like to begin giving you a bit more insight as to what the combat team is currently working on, save for any new features or systems that we simply aren’t ready to discuss yet. The plan is to make a new post similar to this each month. In order for this to work, though, everyone must understand that this is all work in development and has a high probability to change. As long as discussions stay civil, we’ll continue posting these updates.
With that said, below are a few things (not everything!) the combat team is currently working on for Update 17.
Right now i think the big issue is it seems like synergies don't prompt you unless you stop where the synergy is. I would like to see ultimates not justify their higher costs because of a synergy too.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Goal: Improve Synergies- Ensure that when players are prompted to use a synergy, they can always use it
- Players should always know where a synergy is; working to improve visual effects to support this
- Group mates shouldn’t have to fight each other to use a synergy
- When players use a synergy, it should fire immediately with no delay
- Synergies are the way to help groups be stronger than solo players, damage and resource sustain should always be better while in a group
- Review and standardize balance for synergy abilities; Ultimate synergies should be stronger than regular abilities
I like the stunned idea for interruptible abilities, but the other two ideas I don't think would be wise.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Goal: Improve Interrupt- Add a stun to interrupts – if a player gets interrupted, they get stunned (and therefore get CC immunity when they break it)
- Add a short cooldown to an interrupted ability to add interesting gameplay to interrupts
- Add interrupt telegraphs to cast time abilities when players are not CC immune
The Champion passive i think is a good idea. Perhaps something you should consider is making it so while you are blocking nothing can return/give stam, just a thought.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Goal: Investigating Perma-blocking- Adjust the block calculations so that cost reduction happens first (might have to reduce the block cost slightly as a result)
- Investigate adding something to Champion passives, or an item set to increase the block cost
My only concern about this is the reduction in full heavy time, this could make some heavy attack builds that are already really powerful more powerful. So if this change happens, please review sets and skills that are triggered by or buff heavy attacks.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Goal: Improving Off Balance + Heavy Attacks- Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
- Effect is only consumed if the target is knocked down from a Heavy Attack
- Attacking an Off Balance enemy with a Heavy Attack restores 2x resources
- After Off Balance ends, the target is immune for a period of time
- Test making the following changes to make Heavy Attacks feel better:
- Shorten the Heavy Attack cooldown to approximately 300ms from 700ms
- Shorten the global cast speed penalty of Heavy Attacks to 50% from 75%
Potato Pact - PC NA0 -
S'yn✭✭✭If the perma block builds are such a huge issue in PVP, why not just reduce or even eliminate stamina recovery while blocking in Cyrodiil?
Also, thank you for creating a post like this to communicate with your playerbase. Yes there will be some guff on the thread, but the intention is awesome and should be supported and continued.
A small suggestion for the forums though- I think it would be nice to have class threads under the combat mechanics. This would help you as developers to get focused feedback from players who main a specific class when you are doing rebalance work and such.0 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Goal: Improve Interrupt- Add a stun to interrupts – if a player gets interrupted, they get stunned (and therefore get CC immunity when they break it)
- Add a short cooldown to an interrupted ability to add interesting gameplay to interrupts
- Add interrupt telegraphs to cast time abilities when players are not CC immune
Goal: Improving Off Balance + Heavy Attacks- Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
- Effect is only consumed if the target is knocked down from a Heavy Attack
- Attacking an Off Balance enemy with a Heavy Attack restores 2x resources
- After Off Balance ends, the target is immune for a period of time
With regards to CC in general has there ever been any thought as to have the CC immunity apply directly after the CC takes effect rather than have CC immunity apply as the break free takes effect? There seem to be too many instances where a person can be chain stunned or perma stunned as stuns can keep landing with effects that make it impossible to break free. At least this is what I am interpreting is happening to me on occasion. Usually with knockdown effects. Maybe I am misinterpreting what is happening, but this is how it appears.
By having the CC immunity apply directly after the CC effect I would think it would disallow the ability to chain stun. So the purpose of break free would at that point be only to remove the current CC effect and it itself would no longer grant immunity as a person would already be immune from the moment of being CC'ed.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If the perma block builds are such a huge issue in PVP, why not just reduce or even eliminate stamina recovery while blocking in Cyrodiil?
It’s already like this, you know. Even in PvE.
Edited by Feanor on November 16, 2017 10:29AMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.4 -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Goal: Improve Synergies- Synergies are the way to help groups be stronger than solo players, damage and resource sustain should always be better while in a group
Can we just revert the Morrowind sustain bs already? It seems like you guys are starting to regret some of the changes, which makes sense considering how many people left after that mess hit Live. Honestly, it makes me kind of sad to read "fast-paced combat" every time you guys mention combat changes, since PvE has become a boring slugfest, which is not at all improved by the ridiculous health stats of the new trial bosses.. like 100million, what the actual..
Anyway, I feel like this whole "listening to the community" is nothing more than warm air, when most threads concerning sustain problems in Morrowind, on the closed beta forum, were almost entirely ignored, and yet we are still somehow to believe you guys care about what we have to say.
I really like ESO (and I used to love it, even), but I don't understand the developers and the direction they are going, though that has been a consistent struggle for years. It's not for the sake of the fans, because the way things are you guys seem perfectly fine attributing to the revolving-door syndrome that plagues so many other MMOs that also tout the "we listen to our consumers" line.4 -
zeroIndex✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Goal: Improving Off Balance . . .-
. . . with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
I feel like trying to 'balance' game play around one specific passive - in a stamina damage tree - might not be the best approach. I feel that it was a build up of things like this that caused the tragedy of Marrowind in the first place.2 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The biggest issue with Tanking and Healing in Cyrodiil is that they overperform on the fringe cases (those who spec heavily into Healing and Tanking) but now underperform on more well-rounded or DPS focused builds due to nerfs.
On my DPS Magplar, I used to be able to toss out decent (not great, but good) offheals to my group. I could also turtle up for a few seconds on my S/B back bar to soak up some damage via block. Currently, my offhealing is atrocious and if I'm heavily outnumbered I can't block for more than 1-2 seconds if I want to save any stamina for a CC break. But you still see crazy healplars and tankplars because ZOS hasn't addressed the fringe builds that are built solely to heal or tank. All the changes to block cost and the increased effectiveness of Befoul have done is make it harder for DPS builds to utilize these mechanics.
Same on my mDK.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4