Monthly Combat Update – November

ZOS_GinaBruno

We’d like to begin giving you a bit more insight as to what the combat team is currently working on, save for any new features or systems that we simply aren’t ready to discuss yet. The plan is to make a new post similar to this each month. In order for this to work, though, everyone must understand that this is all work in development and has a high probability to change. As long as discussions stay civil, we’ll continue posting these updates.

With that said, below are a few things (not everything!) the combat team is currently working on for Update 17.

Goal: Improve Synergies

• Ensure that when players are prompted to use a synergy, they can always use it
• Players should always know where a synergy is; working to improve visual effects to support this
• Group mates shouldn’t have to fight each other to use a synergy
• When players use a synergy, it should fire immediately with no delay
• Synergies are the way to help groups be stronger than solo players, damage and resource sustain should always be better while in a group
• Review and standardize balance for synergy abilities; Ultimate synergies should be stronger than regular abilities

Goal: Improve Interrupt

• Add a stun to interrupts – if a player gets interrupted, they get stunned (and therefore get CC immunity when they break it)
• Add a short cooldown to an interrupted ability to add interesting gameplay to interrupts
• Add interrupt telegraphs to cast time abilities when players are not CC immune

Goal: Investigating Perma-blocking

• Adjust the block calculations so that cost reduction happens first (might have to reduce the block cost slightly as a result)
• Investigate adding something to Champion passives, or an item set to increase the block cost

Goal: Improving Off Balance + Heavy Attacks

• Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
  • Effect is only consumed if the target is knocked down from a Heavy Attack
  • Attacking an Off Balance enemy with a Heavy Attack restores 2x resources
  • After Off Balance ends, the target is immune for a period of time
• Test making the following changes to make Heavy Attacks feel better:
  • Shorten the Heavy Attack cooldown to approximately 300ms from 700ms
  • Shorten the global cast speed penalty of Heavy Attacks to 50% from 75%

You may notice we haven’t listed any class balance changes in this list. This doesn’t mean there won’t be any adjustments; we’re just still looking at what needs to be tweaked.

Lexxypwns

Thank you for the communication.

As to block cost, please add the changes to battle spirit.

Turelus

That was very interesting to read. Thanks Gina and to the combat team for this, I do hope people can remain mature with these as it'll be great to see updates like this each month.

I hate to be that guy that always asks for more, but is there any chance we could have one of these regarding PvP each month as well? It's been a long time since we really heard from Wheeler and I know a lot of my old PvP buddies are getting restless with the lack of news or knowledge of where things are going.

Turelus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

As to block cost, please add the changes to battle spirit.

I would agree with this. If the combat team are happy how blocking performs in PvE right now maybe consider using Combat Spirit to handle and PvP balance as to not break one for the other (which upsets a lot of people).

That said though if they're not happy with how it's working in PvE then make changes there but try to make a note of why it was also changed for PvE to avoid the "this was nerfed because of PvP" threads.

Alanar

For Off Balance and Heavy Attacks, I love these changes.

Having the effect consumed by a Heavy Attack definitely reduces it's usefulness in PVE, trials in particular, so that's a very welcome change. Increased resource return from Off Balance enemies would also be very useful.

For immunity, I'd recommend tying the immunity proc to whether the target is knocked down as well. This would prevent constant knock-downs in PVP while reducing the randomness in PVE. When fighting an Off Balance trial boss for example, it's difficult to tell whether the boss is Off Balance, so having them randomly get immune to Off Balance would be frustrating.

Tyrion87

Wow thanks for this update. We may agree or disagree with the changes, but such idea of giving us insight on what you're currently working on is really appreciated.

Koolio

This post is the start of something great

Dragath

be ready to buff mDKs when you change the block calculations.

Neoauspex

Thanks for the communication @ZOS_GinaBruno

rhapsodious

SYNERGY FIXES AAAAAAAAA

Can you elaborate a bit on "fighting" to get the synergy? Is that implying that the synergy won't be consumed as soon as someone takes it?

But thank you so much for this, it means a lot. Looking forward to any class-based threads or the next monthly one.

Dissentinel

Thanks so much for coming out with this so quickly! Excited to read these every month and hopefully give helpful feedback on ESO's combat. I'm really excited about the changes to synergies in particular. They feel clunky to use right now, and hopefully they can be made to feel more consistent without becoming overpowered.

Qwazzy

Please don't make the counter to block cost similar to siphoning. Most players won't use such points as they don't see a direct impact to their stats. The cp system is currently a way to buff your character, it should stay that way. My suggestion would be to increase base block cost, or decrease the block cost reduction passives under the sword/shield skill line, not both. The current issue is stems more from the passive block cost reduction gained prior to looking at sturdy/cost reduction glyphs. Adding such a debuff to battle spirit would be a good alternative as well.
Just my 2¢

casparian

Thank you so much for doing these!

Also, I want everyone to notice this line:

everyone must understand that this is all work in development and has a high probability to change.

Please, no posts six months from now saying "where's that block cost overhaul Gina promised?" Nothing in this thread is a promise. It's an indication of what the team is looking at right now. What this post provides is transparency, not guarantees.

code65536

Goal: Investigating Perma-blocking

Let's amend that to "Investigating Perma-blocking in PvP".

Keep in mind block cost reduction is a very important part of PvE tanking, where either due to damage or mechanics or CC, there are many things that must be blocked. Furthermore, the way the 2s stamina regen penalty works (where it's a fresh new penalty every time block is activated) means that "tactical blocking" is often not possible or extremely difficult in endgame PvE.

The preference should either be in PvP-specific fixes, like CP stars that increase cost, item sets that increase cost, or even Battle Spirit fixes--since those won't be applicable to tanks outside of PvP or if you elect to do a global nerf of block cost, then it is vital that all PvE content be audited and adjusted to make this "tactical" blocking more feasible and accessible (particularly to people who are learning to tank and people who have less than perfect game performance).

CavalryPK

I am liking this sort of communication from ZOS. Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno. I am looking forward to more posts like this. Preferably that include class balance ideas.

Flaminir

Great idea Gina!

Hopefully this will lead to early community feedback that can then be taken into account before reaching the almost fait acompli stage of when a patch is basically finished and on PTS for last minute bug checking.

Synergies & Interupts look great... bith in bad need of improvements.

Heavy attacks and blocking needs some thought...

As others have mentioned, you eed to be careful that the need to adjust something to counter perma block near unkillable builds in PvP doesn't impact PvE too much. Some of the more recent content in PvE is getting harder, and with the sustain changes in recent patches making it too difficult to sustain blocking will just punish those least able to adapt and work around it who play solo and in less coordinated groups.

I'd be all for a battlespirit tweak in there to adjust this... perhaps an increasing cost mechanic where the more blocks within X timeframe and the cost goes up... similar to bolt escape cost increase but with blocking.

That way you don't punish the magicka builds who have little stamina and still need to block occasionally, but get rid of the perma blockers who will find it harder to just hold RMB down.

Autumnhart

Good. Fixing synergies would make a huge difference for group play. Making heavy attacks feel better would be much appreciated. See also: light attacks with lightning and resto staves.

Thanks, Gina.

Torbschka

Thx for doing this, although the interruption section is just another nerf for mag/stam sorcerer (hello dark deal).

Thx for the info .

Rohamad_Ali

What a pleasant surprise to see . Keep it coming .

TheRealPotoroo

Unfortunately, the line I was looking for is missing - apparently the Combat Team are not looking into how to balance PvP without simultaneously wrecking PvE.

Camb0Sl1ce

Pretty content with these proposed changes, except for the increase to block cost from a pve tank perspective and the off balance immunity. The section about synergies is pretty sweet, maybe we can go back to orbs giving other players nearby resources when one pops it?

Bowser

Block cost increase in PvE is unacceptable.

casparian

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Unfortunately, the line I was looking for is missing - apparently the Combat Team are not looking into how to balance PvP without simultaneously wrecking PvE.

With that said, below are a few things (not everything!) the combat team is currently working on for Update 17.

sigh

CavalryPK

Bowser wrote: »

Block cost increase in PvE is unacceptable.

one of the comments mentioned to some how apply block cost adjustments using battle spirit... so that block cost is not affected in pve at all.

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Goal: Improving Off Balance + Heavy Attacks

• Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
  • Effect is only consumed if the target is knocked down from a Heavy Attack

Finally some indirect buffs to magicka setups in PvE as mostly off balance is consumed by stamina setups as their heavy attack weaves are a lot faster.

Stamina setups still have a lot more damage output mainly for the synergies that sunderflame and night mother sets give to the group. There should be equivalents for magicka setups.

Suggestion: Make the staffs heavy attack weave faster to charge. Even without those changes magicka builds are starting to revert back to light attack weaves (mainly because of the asylumn staffs) as charging heavy attacks is now a DPS loss. More DPS is now being produced with light attack weaving in combination with some recovery and an asylum staff.

Additionally, the time window that is presented to players to activate synergies is too low. Casting a spell could cause a player to miss his change to activate a synergy and therefore people are forced to spam the X button even before they see that a synergy can be activated.

Liofa

These are amazing . I love them . And you will be doing this every month ?! I am so happy . I really am .

*sheds a tear*

Rohamad_Ali

Bowser wrote: »

Block cost increase in PvE is unacceptable.

I don't know about that . Block cost is so low even average PVE players can solo tank world bosses for so long their minuscule damage eventually brings them down . An these world bosses were buffed to be group attacked .

MopeyHat

CavalryPK wrote: »

Bowser wrote: »

Block cost increase in PvE is unacceptable.

one of the comments mentioned to some how apply block cost adjustments using battle spirit... so that block cost is not affected in pve at all.

Absolutely agree. Hate hate hate the siphoning star, putting more of that in makes it even harder to shift from PvP to PvE. I love both! Don't force me to pigeonhole, please.

Everything else here sounds like some amazing QoL changes.

Cinbri

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Add interrupt telegraphs to cast time abilities when players are not CC immune

Than it should have telegraph all the time coz Interrupt ignore CC immunity and since forever you can interrupt CC immuned enemies.
Or does it will be changed to no longer ignore CC immunity? @ZOS_GinaBruno

Drummerx04

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Goal: Improve Synergies

Yes to everything on this list. with some minor comments.

• Synergies activate instantly -- this should work similar to the way bash works now. Bash is on a separate cooldown priority, so you can do a combo like, LA->skill->bash in one smooth motion. Simply adding synergies to a similar cooldown so that you can, LA->skill->synergy in one smooth motion would be excellent. The limiting factor is that I don't want to be able to just hit 5+ synergies in 1 second as this could lead to its own balance issues.
• While ultimate synergies should be stronger, I'd prefer that strength to come from buffing the synergies, not nerfing conduit and impale for instance.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Goal: Improve Interrupt

• Add a stun to interrupts – if a player gets interrupted, they get stunned (and therefore get CC immunity when they break it)
• Add a short cooldown to an interrupted ability to add interesting gameplay to interrupts
• Add interrupt telegraphs to cast time abilities when players are not CC immune

I'd like some clarity here.

• bashing/crushing/venom already cause a 3 second stagger/stun and CC immunity when breaking free. What's new here?
• Elaborate on the short cooldown? Do you mean the interrupted ability will become unavailable, or that the ability can only be interrupted once for a short time? The difference is very important here.
• So I'm going to show glowing red lines whenever casting (lol) crystal blast?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Goal: Investigating Perma-blocking

• Adjust the block calculations so that cost reduction happens first (might have to reduce the block cost slightly as a result)
• Investigate adding something to Champion passives, or an item set to increase the block cost

You need to be very careful here. Permablocking is only a balance issue in PvP, and for PvE, permablocking is almost mandatory. In trials (where it actually matters) there are so many things that hit for 20-30k+ while blocking as a DK with damage reduction passives and or CC you that dropping block really isn't a viable option.

Any changes you make to block, should really go into battle spirit for pvp. I know the combat balance team is allergic to balancing separately, but every change you have thus made to blocking has made it less useful to non permablockers and basically hasn't affected permablocking builds.

Putting block cost reduction glyphs into the beginning of the block cost calculation makes them just about useless, please don't.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Goal: Improving Off Balance + Heavy Attacks

• Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
  • Effect is only consumed if the target is knocked down from a Heavy Attack
  • Attacking an Off Balance enemy with a Heavy Attack restores 2x resources
  • After Off Balance ends, the target is immune for a period of time
• Test making the following changes to make Heavy Attacks feel better:
  • Shorten the Heavy Attack cooldown to approximately 300ms from 700ms
  • Shorten the global cast speed penalty of Heavy Attacks to 50% from 75%

This is mostly interesting from a dps perspective.

• I like anything that provides more resources, but 2x more might be a bit OP
• I like the knockdown being the thing that removes OB
• I don't like the OB immunity. Maybe change it so the immunity only triggers if the target does get knocked down? Keep in mind, on live, even with every dps consuming off balance, the uptime of OB can still be comfortably above 50% on a trial boss. Your immunity cooldown would ideally not change this. Alternatively, since OB would be really easy to maintain without heavy attacks consuming it and no immunity to the status effect, you could lower the potency of the exploiter CP passive a bit.
• I have no idea what the last two heavy attack changes actually reference.

Summary: synergy improvements YES THANK YOU

Anyway that's my two cents.

Gilliamtherogue

First off let me say, I think I'm in love. Improved communication and transparency is vital to success in today's day and age of information and open discussions. I know it brings a lot of flak, and it's definitely easy to focus on the negative, but please continue doing this. Back and forth discussions like this will breathe new life into community engagement, and general perception of game health. Nothing will ever be perfect, but damn if it isn't worth fighting to be anyways. Here's some of my personal thoughts and advice on the proposed changes, to try and help that fight

Improving Off Balance and Heavy Attacks

Truly a wondrous thing to see you guys prioritize this. The over importance of Off Balance in an end game setting of PvE is one of the dozens of factors that crush many class's potentials, as well as severely punishing unoptimized groups. Please keep us updated on the values you are examining for the immunity periods, etc! Exciting stuff.

Examining Permablocking

You will receive a lot of negative attention from this by the PvE crowd. People will blatantly ignore the restore return cost of Heavy attacking off balance targets (which if they're elites, they can't be knocked down, thus preventing Off Balance from fading early) as well as the suggested improved resource return of synergies. I highly suggest highlighting some basic math to show the increased drain of your proposed block changes in vacuum, as well as adding in the occurrence of base line heavy attacking off balance targets, and hitting synergies at a specific intervals. As you mentioned, groups should have better resource management. If you show this is a buff to sustain for tanks in PvE, people will relax (sort of... people will always overreact).

Improved Interruption

By the Nine and all that is holy this is one of the most exciting things I've seen come to PvP mechanics for a long time. As much as I love the proposed changes, please also consider putting a cooldown on interrupts as well- or investigating how some skills interact with being interrupted. Cast times already incur severe operational losses, and susceptibility to increased counter play might punish them a bit too much. There's nothing worse than being prevented from actions by a player who does nothing but bash repeatedly. I implore you to investigate adding risks to interrupting as well, so it is a two-way street of interaction.