Monthly Combat Update – November

OdinForge

I'm interested in the interrupt changes.

I was really bored and decided to spend 10 minutes of my life fighting a petsorc without using shield breaker. The sorc was just casting resto ult on cool-down or hiding behind atro occasionally, had shadowrend up practically all the time.

I wanted to experiment with killing the twilight, and seeing if I could prevent him from channeling a new one, and going for a kill. I think he panicked and tried to re-summon the twilight like 10 times in a row. I'd bash him every time while trying to weave in combos for a kill, but he'd shield and eventually I'd stam out and he was free to re-summon like nothing happened.

Essentially it's a waste of time to kill the pets, and better off just trying to catch the petsorc without shields for a combo. A tedious process that can take literally forever (10 minutes of smashing my face into my keyboard out of boredom).

Fights like these are really lame, people are just afraid to take risk and die. They try to build as tanky as possible and the only repercussion seemingly is that they tend to do very little damage, but it's not engaging game-play either way. It'd be nice to see repercussions to a petsorc failing to keep their pets alive.

itsfatbass

LiquidPony wrote: »

In the same vein, can you guys possibly look at resurrection mechanics? In crowded fights with combat tips and synergies popping and a bunch of enemies allies standing over top of a body, it can be nearly impossible to resurrect a teammate. When someone drops, you'll often see several players milling around doing nothing attempting to get the rez. It's not uncommon to end up in a menu or accidentally kick someone from the group or attempt to trade with or duel them when trying to rez. It should be dead-simple but it ends up being just as frustrating as the nonsense with synergies.

The whole process of resurrection could use a complete rework, to be honest. No regen while resurrecting doesn't make sense. Getting pushed out of the way and having the resurrection canceled by a wandering enemy is annoying. It'd be nice to be able to select a teammate to rez from a quick-menu or at least have a unique button combination that automatically starts rezzing if there's a dead friendly target in range.

This is absolutely a major issue with this game and has been for some time. Agreed 100%.

Also, the whole idea of adding a stun requiring cc break is a terrible idea. Magicka toons are already at a disadvantage with cc, so adding another stun to the game just sounds bad. Cc immunity already has major bugs and isn't even applied half the time regardless... No more stuns please!

Ragnarock41

I'm both excited and scared at the moment.
I feel like we are gonna see the changes soon or we won't hear about this ever again, one of both.
Either way,
I am glad that devs had the courage to start this monthly update thing, instead of trying to balance every 6 months, balance is going way too slow I think.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

Could we have an update on when to expect this changes to happen ?

IlCanis_LupuslI

usmcjdking wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Can WW get some much needed love? It is fairly weak in PVE because you have to feed IN COMBAT where there might not be an opportunity to feed.

I had a showerthought that might work to help good ol' PVE WW. Have the WW cost remain the same, but tie it's timer to ultimate generation. Have it drain 3 ultimate per second (base WW transformation time raised to 100 seconds), rework Call of the Pack to provide 10% stamina regeneration and 5% weapon damage PER werewolf to your entire party (hello group synergy) and perhaps have Devour restore a much larger amount of resources as well as apply Major Berserk for 10 seconds.

and Change the Hircines Fortitude to make it cost stamina plz... Make it a Hot like Vigor plz!!! @ZOS_GinaBruno

Waffennacht

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Can WW get some much needed love? It is fairly weak in PVE because you have to feed IN COMBAT where there might not be an opportunity to feed.

I had a showerthought that might work to help good ol' PVE WW. Have the WW cost remain the same, but tie it's timer to ultimate generation. Have it drain 3 ultimate per second (base WW transformation time raised to 100 seconds), rework Call of the Pack to provide 10% stamina regeneration and 5% weapon damage PER werewolf to your entire party (hello group synergy) and perhaps have Devour restore a much larger amount of resources as well as apply Major Berserk for 10 seconds.

and Change the Hircines Fortitude to make it cost stamina plz... Make it a Hot like Vigor plz!!! @ZOS_GinaBruno

@Mangeli200194 balance issues, it's the best curving heal in game, make it Stam based and WW suddenly becomes meh to OP

Edit: oh a HoT? Not bad idea. I would also like to see 1 mag Attack morph for personal RP reasons (WW mage)

Zorgon_The_Revenged

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

Could we have an update on when to expect this changes to happen ?

It's in the first post, update 17 (next update so mid to end of January maybe).

Splattercat_83

Please do not mess with off balance. Since you released the mistake that you called "Morrowind" off balance helped lessen the damage gap you created by killing sustain.

That patch caused two of my trials guilds to die. People quit playing, and we disbanded. I understand you want to make the game challenging and dynamic, but dont remove or change something where you get a good ammount of damage like off balance the same way you did with sustain.

Not everyone is an alcast, or a gilliam the rouge, and not every group is hodor, or aquila raiders. Youre making it hard on the average player to even better than average players to clear vet trials much less hardmodes or getting speed runs.

Crom_CCCXVI

Adding immunity to off balance is going to ruin a number of builds that already use off balance tactically (like a Power Lash Concussion build DK) and need a reliable, time sensitive result - in favor of some mindless heavy attacks spam build? I will explain this in depth when I get a moment.

If you really want to improve the usage of off balance,
Simply allow status effects to hit people using a damage shield, in PvP anyway

Crom_CCCXVI

OFF BALANCE IMMUNITY would destroy several builds that already use "off balance" tactically. Not all "off balance" is about a damage increase for heavy attacks. For my build the timing of that "off balance" is my heal, my proc timing for BS or CA, immunity from a 3rd party would be fatal.

This is about as well thought out as I can make it.
I understand the appeal, I see the Asylum weapons, and the simplicity of just spamming heavy attacks and crushing shock probably sounds great to some--- but respect the value of diversity, and recognize how fun the game is when your not just doing the same thing as everyone else.

I hate talking about my build, because I came to it on my own, and I like playing something different
However, - I don't want to lose my Concussion Build DK. If off balance immunity is in the game, this will be worthless as timing is everything.
Charged Staff with a Lightning Glyph and off balance is easy to get already with practice.
Shock Reach + Elemental Barrier = Off Balance, then I can attack with several Power Lash’s.
--- Now I am trying to time this with the proc on Burning Spellweave or Clev. Alch, and many times in PvP I’m near death and need the heal that comes with Power Lash.. I know I will get it, if I can hit those 3 things. If there is some guy off to the side just doing heavy attack spam and giving all my targets off balance immunity, I’m dead, or at best why bother with any combinations.
It isn'y overpowered, I lose 1 v 1's, the damage isn't PVE vet quality, maybe 20-25 on a dummy, and it isn’t cheap and easy, it is just a really fun way to play the game that is in jeopardy because we want people to line up with destro staffs and just spam the same skills back and forth like Sorcs already do, without even having to target most of the time.

I know it's not META, I'm not even saying it's a great way to play, maybe it sucks.... but the point is, we shouldn't be losing diversity for the sake of a heavy attack spam build essentially.
I have included two video’s that were never really meant for the public. One was to teach a guildmate how to play this build, and I guess one was to show off to my guildmates. But I really hope the developers at least consider this.
This one was for my friend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c-4_CnwHJw

and this one was just in PvP action, where knowing that the heal will be there is what makes it possible... it needs to be reliable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xYKafsYZUQ

Kel

Splattercat_83 wrote: »

Please do not mess with off balance. Since you released the mistake that you called "Morrowind" off balance helped lessen the damage gap you created by killing sustain.

That patch caused two of my trials guilds to die. People quit playing, and we disbanded. I understand you want to make the game challenging and dynamic, but dont remove or change something where you get a good ammount of damage like off balance the same way you did with sustain.

Not everyone is an alcast, or a gilliam the rouge, and not every group is hodor, or aquila raiders. Youre making it hard on the average player to even better than average players to clear vet trials much less hardmodes or getting speed runs.

I cannot agree with this more.
Please do not take away this wonderful tool that helps average players reach for better content while actually helping and doing better damage.
I love Xynode's sorc build, and I feel this would devastate what makes it so effective....getting concussion to proc off balance.
What brought me back to ESO is this build and the enjoyment of actually playing effective and contributions to group activity instead of being a liability.

Qbiken

Goal: Improving Off Balance + Heavy Attacks
•Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
•Effect is only consumed if the target is knocked down from a Heavy Attack
•Attacking an Off Balance enemy with a Heavy Attack restores 2x resources
•After Off Balance ends, the target is immune for a period of time

•Test making the following changes to make Heavy Attacks feel better: •Shorten the Heavy Attack cooldown to approximately 300ms from 700ms
•Shorten the global cast speed penalty of Heavy Attacks to 50% from 75%

I`m not quite sure how these changes will affect balance in the game so can´t really say too much.

The only thing that worries me are the bolded parts. There´s one class, and one class only that will take harm from immunity to off-balance, and that´s magicka DK. All other classes can sustain and do good damage without off-balance support, magDK can´t.
Since Morrowind, sustain has been absolutely horrible for magicka DK´s (In comparison to how it was before Morrowind, even though sustain wasn´t the best back then either on magDK). This is my view on magDK´s in it´s current state:

* The nerf to Battle Roar and Helping Hands hit DK´s really hard and in my opinion it kinda "killed" what´s special about DK´s.
* At the moment it´s impossible to sustain the usage of Molten Whip, I´ve yet to be proven the opposite.
* In order to sustain you´re FORCED to use Flame-Lash into Power-Lash. In order to proc this you need a high uptime on concussion and off-balance.
* Off-balance/concussion is very unreliable and with many other builds utilizing heavy attacks into their rotations (because they need to sustain as well) off-balance get consumed and as a magDK you won´t get the benefit from Power-Lash, since the target isn´t off-balanced anymore.

•Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
It´s already useful for everyone. The difference is that magDK needs it, while other classes/setups doesn´t. Sure, you can run a pure heavy attack build on magDK, but a magsorcs can do that even better, so why bother bringing a magDK unless you need a chainer to vMoL?

My suggestions:
* I would prefer to keep off-balance as it is at the moment. These changes above feel like another hit to magDK in PvE. In PvP Power-Lash already has a cooldown against other players and can´t be spammed anyway, so off-balance isn´t a "PvP-issue". At the moment magDK is the only class/setup that needs off-balance. All other classes can do fine without it, even tho their DPS might get lowered without it, they´re not dependent on it the way magDK is.

* But if you were to apply the changes to off-balance as suggested I would like to see some/one of the following:
- Reduced cost of DK´s skills
- Add a reduce cost passive
- Revert changes of Battle Roar and Helping Hands (or at least buff the resource return)
- Make Molten Whip Reduce the cost of all abilities by X% instead of increasing spell-damage of Ardent Flame abiilties

FloppyTouch

Can we stop nerfing dk via blanket nerfs? This has been one of the hugest mistakes the ZoS keeps making over and over again. Mdk already suck in pve taken the off balance change will effect this class more then anyone.

I suggest that if ur going to keep this change mdks are going to need some real buffs
-stronger dot damage
-lower skill cost
-buff batttle roar
-buff helping hands

We can’t sustain at all right now it’s horrible

#bringbackbattleroar

Kalante

please get rid off perma blockers in pvp.

Inarre

synergy improvement?

I lurve you eso team

ak_pvp

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Can we stop nerfing dk via blanket nerfs? This has been one of the hugest mistakes the ZoS keeps making over and over again. Mdk already suck in pve taken the off balance change will effect this class more then anyone.

I suggest that if ur going to keep this change mdks are going to need some real buffs
-stronger dot damage
-lower skill cost
-buff batttle roar
-buff helping hands

We can’t sustain at all right now it’s horrible

#bringbackbattleroar

They plan to make heavy attacks only consume offbalance if it knocks the target down, which bosses cannot be. How about the same with whip? Make it knock down targets in PvP too and you have a fair tradeoff. (They did abuse our other stun) Also offbalance immunity shouldn't be longer than 2/3s else it would hurt too much.

Old battle roar should be a given.

Dots in general should get a buff since they can be purged/cloaked/healed too easily. Though I am not sure dmg needs a buff, light DK deals so much damage both pressure and burst if needed. A defense outside of block would be nice so DKs can maintain that dmg without squishing.

earichardson79ub17_ESO

code65536 wrote: »

Goal: Investigating Perma-blocking
Let's amend that to "Investigating Perma-blocking in PvP".

Keep in mind block cost reduction is a very important part of PvE tanking, where either due to damage or mechanics or CC, there are many things that must be blocked. Furthermore, the way the 2s stamina regen penalty works (where it's a fresh new penalty every time block is activated) means that "tactical blocking" is often not possible or extremely difficult in endgame PvE.

The preference should either be in PvP-specific fixes, like CP stars that increase cost, item sets that increase cost, or even Battle Spirit fixes--since those won't be applicable to tanks outside of PvP or if you elect to do a global nerf of block cost, then it is vital that all PvE content be audited and adjusted to make this "tactical" blocking more feasible and accessible (particularly to people who are learning to tank and people who have less than perfect game performance).

Exactly run a sorc tank cp 390ish (not important enough, I made it to cp and she was one of my first when 3 years ago) I am also very poor and moving while in combat so I geared and skilled her specifically to be a block tank, I have some damage sheilds and some buffs but even on my 2h bar this girlie takes about 5 minutes to kill a regular easy one on one anything. I am working on being more mobile, you are talking about the one thing this toon is built around. Please zos not again

Sethro_27

Just in my opinion.
Interrupts shouldn't allow CC immunity that's just gives someone all the more reason to rush in get the immunity and then heal themselves til everyone just gets bored.
Maybe scale dmg like you did with ultimates so everyone can use whatever weapon they want but have to decide what morph they want based on character choice.
I'm just trying to help.

Sethro_27

Also keep up the good work! Thanks for all of the hard work!

Tasear

How about a battle emote wheel for like need orb or shards? Maybe bind to numberpad?

Shinkhan

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’d like to begin giving you a bit more insight as to what the combat team is currently working on, save for any new features or systems that we simply aren’t ready to discuss yet. The plan is to make a new post similar to this each month. In order for this to work, though, everyone must understand that this is all work in development and has a high probability to change. As long as discussions stay civil, we’ll continue posting these updates.

With that said, below are a few things (not everything!) the combat team is currently working on for Update 17.

Goal: Improve Synergies

• Ensure that when players are prompted to use a synergy, they can always use it
• Players should always know where a synergy is; working to improve visual effects to support this
• Group mates shouldn’t have to fight each other to use a synergy
• When players use a synergy, it should fire immediately with no delay
• Synergies are the way to help groups be stronger than solo players, damage and resource sustain should always be better while in a group
• Review and standardize balance for synergy abilities; Ultimate synergies should be stronger than regular abilities

Goal: Improve Interrupt

• Add a stun to interrupts – if a player gets interrupted, they get stunned (and therefore get CC immunity when they break it)
• Add a short cooldown to an interrupted ability to add interesting gameplay to interrupts
• Add interrupt telegraphs to cast time abilities when players are not CC immune

Goal: Investigating Perma-blocking

• Adjust the block calculations so that cost reduction happens first (might have to reduce the block cost slightly as a result)
• Investigate adding something to Champion passives, or an item set to increase the block cost

Goal: Improving Off Balance + Heavy Attacks

• Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
  • Effect is only consumed if the target is knocked down from a Heavy Attack
  • Attacking an Off Balance enemy with a Heavy Attack restores 2x resources
  • After Off Balance ends, the target is immune for a period of time
• Test making the following changes to make Heavy Attacks feel better:
  • Shorten the Heavy Attack cooldown to approximately 300ms from 700ms
  • Shorten the global cast speed penalty of Heavy Attacks to 50% from 75%

You may notice we haven’t listed any class balance changes in this list. This doesn’t mean there won’t be any adjustments; we’re just still looking at what needs to be tweaked.

hello ! we are waiting for the one of december !

Ragnarock41

ak_pvp wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Can we stop nerfing dk via blanket nerfs? This has been one of the hugest mistakes the ZoS keeps making over and over again. Mdk already suck in pve taken the off balance change will effect this class more then anyone.

I suggest that if ur going to keep this change mdks are going to need some real buffs
-stronger dot damage
-lower skill cost
-buff batttle roar
-buff helping hands

We can’t sustain at all right now it’s horrible

#bringbackbattleroar

Old battle roar should be a given.

This is the one and only fix Dk needs, in terms of sustain, but lets not overwhelm zos with balance arguments. I feel like they are up to something good this time. Lets wait and see the changes, then we can complain about them

Solariken

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Goal: Improve Interrupt

• Add interrupt telegraphs to cast time abilities when players are not CC immune

I just want to highlight this bit and voice my concern that it effectively sounds like a huge nerf toward Bow and Dawn's Wrath and nothing else, which would be a senseless change.

I love the general idea of an interrupt telegraph, but there just aren't enough interruptable cast-time abilities in game. Many players *say* they hate cast-time/channel abilities, but I really like them and would like to see more implemented. The strongest abilities should be those that can't be animation cancelled, ie cast-times and channels.

If you do add a telegraph, please consider broadening the scope of cast times and make them all interruptable but with compensatory buffs. Uppercut, Soul Assault, Solar Barrage, whatever else to start. Also add a cast time to Power Bash. Boost the base damage of Crystal Shard/Frag/Blast and reduce the instant proc chance of Frag. Give full mobility to Rite of Passage. Etc etc.

ccfeeling

Would you consider how we non-dk class could tank effective like DK?

Why DK could access most of the major buffs?

Ragnarock41

ccfeeling wrote: »

Would you consider how we non-dk class could tank effective like DK?

Why DK could access most of the major buffs?

Dk has access to major brutality, a very expensive major defile, other than that
The major buffs from GDB are accessible with a single tri-stat potion, which is what you should probably run on a PvE tank anyways.

I understand you want different classes to be viable tanks, but you don't even know what makes Dk a good tank.
And believe it or not, wardens are just as good as Dk when it comes to being a main tank, yes, in a trial. Dk is no longer the one and only tank anymore.

Do you really believe major brutality, major endurance or major defile for 250 friggen ultimate, makes dk a good trial tank?
None of those even matter in any pve content for a tank. none of it.

Azurya

we are already in December!

WillhelmBlack

Crushing Shock will now CC, OK! and apply Burning, Chilled and Concussed.

ccfeeling

It's major mending combo.

Maura_Neysa

@ccfeeling I do think DKs can take a little harder hits, but yeah Wardens are @mn good tanks. Stamina return while blocking, CC for days, good self heals, good group utlity. Some will probably argue this, but I say BiS is one of each.

Major Endurance from Falcon Swiftness . Not sure why thats important, usually blocking
Major Defile? Thats the healing recived debuff. Have it though in Corrupting Pollen. Only use that in Pvp though
Minor and Major Maim - The damage done debuff, the one I think you meant.
Major Brutality (+ Major Sourcery) from my Netch. Though also not buffs I'm worried about having.

Any way , what Wardens can do

https://youtu.be/So3A13kSefQ

Xvorg

Qbiken wrote: »

Goal: Improving Off Balance + Heavy Attacks
•Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
•Effect is only consumed if the target is knocked down from a Heavy Attack
•Attacking an Off Balance enemy with a Heavy Attack restores 2x resources
•After Off Balance ends, the target is immune for a period of time

•Test making the following changes to make Heavy Attacks feel better: •Shorten the Heavy Attack cooldown to approximately 300ms from 700ms
•Shorten the global cast speed penalty of Heavy Attacks to 50% from 75%

I`m not quite sure how these changes will affect balance in the game so can´t really say too much.

The only thing that worries me are the bolded parts. There´s one class, and one class only that will take harm from immunity to off-balance, and that´s magicka DK. All other classes can sustain and do good damage without off-balance support, magDK can´t.
Since Morrowind, sustain has been absolutely horrible for magicka DK´s (In comparison to how it was before Morrowind, even though sustain wasn´t the best back then either on magDK). This is my view on magDK´s in it´s current state:

* The nerf to Battle Roar and Helping Hands hit DK´s really hard and in my opinion it kinda "killed" what´s special about DK´s.
* At the moment it´s impossible to sustain the usage of Molten Whip, I´ve yet to be proven the opposite.
* In order to sustain you´re FORCED to use Flame-Lash into Power-Lash. In order to proc this you need a high uptime on concussion and off-balance.
* Off-balance/concussion is very unreliable and with many other builds utilizing heavy attacks into their rotations (because they need to sustain as well) off-balance get consumed and as a magDK you won´t get the benefit from Power-Lash, since the target isn´t off-balanced anymore.

•Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
It´s already useful for everyone. The difference is that magDK needs it, while other classes/setups doesn´t. Sure, you can run a pure heavy attack build on magDK, but a magsorcs can do that even better, so why bother bringing a magDK unless you need a chainer to vMoL?

My suggestions:
* I would prefer to keep off-balance as it is at the moment. These changes above feel like another hit to magDK in PvE. In PvP Power-Lash already has a cooldown against other players and can´t be spammed anyway, so off-balance isn´t a "PvP-issue". At the moment magDK is the only class/setup that needs off-balance. All other classes can do fine without it, even tho their DPS might get lowered without it, they´re not dependent on it the way magDK is.

* But if you were to apply the changes to off-balance as suggested I would like to see some/one of the following:
- Reduced cost of DK´s skills
- Add a reduce cost passive
- Revert changes of Battle Roar and Helping Hands (or at least buff the resource return)
- Make Molten Whip Reduce the cost of all abilities by X% instead of increasing spell-damage of Ardent Flame abiilties

I knew something was wrong when I read the announcement but I couldn't get what was that.

Though the ideas go in line with I have seen since a couple years now... according to @Wrobbel , DKs must be erased from Nirn...