Monthly Combat Update – November

ak_pvp

Joy_Division wrote: »

Eirella wrote: »

I think you guys need to look at healing: it's way too strong in PVP.

Sure. Give me back Blinding Flashes so I have a means of actually defending myself like sorcs (shields), NBs (cloak + teleport), and DKs (blockcast) that aren't reliant on heals, then let's discuss it.

Purge? But I agree, flashes instead of the heal morph of core. Would be unique and useful.

What needs to be done with PvP heals is to half external sources of healing, and limit outside healing to 2 people. Would be a huge hit to zergbads who stack healers and make personal skill more useful. Alternatively a

Hempyre

Hopefully not too off topic here, but npc Crystal Frag still has the stun.

Since it was removed from the player version, should it not also be from the npc version?

JDC1985

Why don't you fix magplar dps for pve its still broken and is not being multiplied correctly yet you have fixed nbs executes, sorc executes and so on I'm talking pure pve here its been this way for months there has been multiple post about it and its being ignored.

Lord_Ninka

Neat. I especially like that you don't want group members to fight for synergies.

I also think the idea about increased resource return for heavy attacks on off-balance targets is interesting, but I am worried that this will be something for group members to fight for, and I wouldn't like that any better than I like fighting for synergies.

I'm excited to hear more about what you work out. As always

FloppyTouch

can dks have battle roar back and helping hands there really was no need to double nerf our sustain. We are running out and our dps is much lower.

Also if ur going to change how block works you might really want to think about this slight buff to battle roar and helping hands.

Thank you for the communication!

scipionumatia

thank you so much for communication, I really appreciate this

CavalryPK

for more visibility from @Astrid_V

1. Master Assassin passive is not working - when I'm invisible, in character window I have increased weapon and spell damage, it also affects tooltips of my abilities on bar, BUT when I attack from stealth my abilities and weapon attacks hit for excatly the same values as when I'm attacking while not being in stealth. Tested with combat metrics.

2. Concealed Weapon is not stunning and giving off balance - when I attack someone while being stealthed they're just getting raw damage from this skill, nothing more. Tested in duels with friends.

3. Shadowy Disguise doesn't grant 100% crit chance - tested only with assassins will at the moment, when I use cloak and then use AW, it sometimes doesn't crit. The "precision" buff is present in character window tho.

4. Shadow Image is not working - I'm in range of my shadow but my character can't teleport to it even on flat terrain, teleporting animation exist but my character is still standing in the same spot.

Joy_Division

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Eirella wrote: »

I think you guys need to look at healing: it's way too strong in PVP.

Sure. Give me back Blinding Flashes so I have a means of actually defending myself like sorcs (shields), NBs (cloak + teleport), and DKs (blockcast) that aren't reliant on heals, then let's discuss it.

Purge? But I agree, flashes instead of the heal morph of core. Would be unique and useful.

What needs to be done with PvP heals is to half external sources of healing, and limit outside healing to 2 people. Would be a huge hit to zergbads who stack healers and make personal skill more useful. Alternatively a

The thing with Purge is other classes don't have it and do just fine. It's not necessary for succeeding in Cyrodiil. Actual skills and mechanics that defend players are. Templars don't have them and thus rely on healing. Non-templars can complain to the devs how healing and zergbads are OP because they can survive through alternative means.

Tasear

Review and standardize balance for synergy abilities; Ultimate synergies should be stronger than regular abilities

Please look at storm attonach... nobody uses anymore, but if synergy could effect more people then this would be a great boon.

Undaunted altar synergy is the worst offender. Nobody knows how to use it. Also is useable if you also have it sloted as a skill then can't use Ally's

VaxtinTheWolf

CavalryPK wrote: »

for more visibility from @Astrid_V

1. Master Assassin passive is not working - when I'm invisible, in character window I have increased weapon and spell damage, it also affects tooltips of my abilities on bar, BUT when I attack from stealth my abilities and weapon attacks hit for excatly the same values as when I'm attacking while not being in stealth. Tested with combat metrics.

If I remember correctly, they changed this to not work against players to reduce the amount of burst Nightblades can do from stealth in PvP, but it still works against PvE environment..

Nephilim_NL

usmcjdking wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Can WW get some much needed love? It is fairly weak in PVE because you have to feed IN COMBAT where there might not be an opportunity to feed.

I had a showerthought that might work to help good ol' PVE WW. Have the WW cost remain the same, but tie it's timer to ultimate generation. Have it drain 3 ultimate per second (base WW transformation time raised to 100 seconds), rework Call of the Pack to provide 10% stamina regeneration and 5% weapon damage PER werewolf to your entire party (hello group synergy) and perhaps have Devour restore a much larger amount of resources as well as apply Major Berserk for 10 seconds.

How about making it so that we can use class specific buffs while in Werewolf form.
Yes, we lose our weapon(skills), but there are skills one can cast while not carrying one.

How it works lore-wise I don't know. But simply turning into a wolf, not being able to do anything besides acting like a rabid dog seems like an awful trade-off for the amount of Ultimate it costs. Cloaked Wolf? Hurricane Wolf? Purrifying Light Wolf? Volatile Armor Wolf? #MakeTransformationsActuallyWorthIT

LoganSniper

Well I guess in the background you've already attacked the Templar again, since I singed in this morning and my templar seems to be weak as crap again after working on it for 2 years and had it putting out 30k DPS as of yesterday and today I'm lucky to get 10k DPS. I guess I will stop paying you monthly and give up on this game since you constantly Pick on the templar so that everything else in the game can slam it with one shot kills. I am so very tired of my templar being Nerfed down to a wet noodle because PVP'ers are so threatened by a templar DPS. what I'm seeing is what you did almost a year ago to the templar in the background and then after everyone started complaining you finally changed it back and now you're doing it again. what a load of crap on you and if you say you're not doing this I'll straight up in your face tell you your lier. I've been in this game and know the templar build inside and out and I know when something has been changed in the background. When my DPS Goes from 30k constant to 10k constant you did something. I would have to say out of all the games I've played in my life time which is a lot, this is the most worse working game and I understand why so many people use cheats in the game to compensate for your actions with undermining the players abilities and damage while setting the monsters health and abilities so damn high that the player is left in defeat, no one wants to play a game that they can never win at you bunch of dumb asses. People play a game to enjoy and have fun in the game. you are trying to turn this game into WOW spin off and if you dont rember let me remind you People left WOW because of the crap you did in that game. so if you want this game to have a short shelf life keep on with what you're doing and see how that go's for you. you already saw the exodus last year with all the stuff you were doing then, one think you would have learned from that. But wait I told you then it was coming and you didn't listen, so why would you listened now. I'm just a player, with my thumb on the heartbeat of the game and it's players I know where and what people are feeling about this game and you're vary close to losing them all. the only ones you will be left with are those that haven't played it before and the numbers will be small. So good luck with that. Too many bugs you had most of them fixed and the game was running nice at the beginning of the year, til you hired the WOW engineers and then everything went to ***. so go find my account and mess with it as you have for nearly a year and half so that nothing is working right.

ak_pvp

Joy_Division wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Eirella wrote: »

I think you guys need to look at healing: it's way too strong in PVP.

Sure. Give me back Blinding Flashes so I have a means of actually defending myself like sorcs (shields), NBs (cloak + teleport), and DKs (blockcast) that aren't reliant on heals, then let's discuss it.

Purge? But I agree, flashes instead of the heal morph of core. Would be unique and useful.

What needs to be done with PvP heals is to half external sources of healing, and limit outside healing to 2 people. Would be a huge hit to zergbads who stack healers and make personal skill more useful. Alternatively a

The thing with Purge is other classes don't have it and do just fine. It's not necessary for succeeding in Cyrodiil. Actual skills and mechanics that defend players are. Templars don't have them and thus rely on healing. Non-templars can complain to the devs how healing and zergbads are OP because they can survive through alternative means.

It's still a very good means of defense, breaking dot builds and removing snares. The cost increase was a little silly. (I'd prefer a 3s, 1/2/2 removal to stop spam) If there was just a maj/minor snare system it'd be even more effective. What templar needs is methods to lock down. (flashes being a good idea) So they can deliver damage without it all being negated or too hurt in the mean time.

Healing is its own issue with earthgore and having many pocket heal AP *** to carry them. I'd limit healing to 2 people and yourself (updating every few sec) and half external healing for pvp.

Side note, if a javelined player cannot move further due to terrain it should pin them to it. Would be fun af.

Aerem

Veg wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

wow man, your stam doesnt go under 51% - you can block forever. you do realize this is the kind of things ZOS is trying to eliminate right?

Hmm... you seem to have completely missed the point. I used examples from before the blocking and healing nerf to show that you canot have half decent damage and tank like that. It's even more impossible now. Also I did drop below 50% stam. I just use a potion or ult to get my 5-7k stam back.

If you want to see what my tanking is like now (after doubled block cost) just watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwNacQgFVQ&feature=youtu.be

no, i got your point and i do very much appreciate your responses and posting of actual footage of your build in action. It's like you had nothing to hide, you know? very honest responses and thank you again.

regardless, I fought against you a few times in BGs and it was just one of the least fun experiences i had ever had. primarily because we were doing domination and you were simply unkillable.

The most recent video still displays a high degree of survivability that is beyond the average ability to survive. Its not fun when opponents dont die. Props for making the build work, i really mean that, you know, no cheese, legit making it work, but i still think it does more harm than good.

I haven't used my damage build much recently so I can't relate to the frustration of fighting tanks anymore. Apparently it annoys everyone quite a bit... But believe me i'm kill able and when I manage to survive an entire fight its a lot of fun for me.

Guaranteed way to kill anyone (including me): Dawn breaker + jabs. Only requirements are that dawnbreaker stuns the target and you have enough crit chance and damage. Kills me from full health every time. Granted only a few players can pull this off and usually require a healer so they don't die first.

But yeah I don't think that stam DK's, stam/magic sorcs, stam/magic wardens or magic nightblades have any good way of killing me in a small scale fight. Only stamplars and stamblades can steam roll me with burst damage. Really makes me wonder why those 2 extremes aren't acknowledged as much as my tanking.

Another thing; I always end up tanking on my mDK because there is nothing more effective. It's the exact same reason stamplars end up with that dawnbreaker + jabs combo. If fire leap did a DoT instead of giving me a shield i'd be just as good at killing as a stamplar minus the movement mechanics. But wrobel is very insistent that mDK's are for holding your ground and not steam rolling pugs. That is left to the stamplars.

Lord the things I would do for a dot attached to leap.

ShadowProc

Either way to late or they are playing the same dance once again. How many times do u all need to be fooled. Nothing has changed. THEY DONT CARE ABOUT PVP.

They are just stringing u along AGAIN

Dredlord

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thank you for the communication.

As to block cost, please add the changes to battle spirit.

Why do that when the issue is affecting pve just as much. Content is far far too easy to tank with block how it is now...

ak_pvp

Lord the things I would do for a dot attached to leap.

The hate tells and nerf cries for leap on amazing as is. 10-15k aoe leaps on over half the builds I face, and never below 6k even on tanky characters.

Add a DB level dot and the cries will be massive.

Ranger209

Dredlord wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thank you for the communication.

As to block cost, please add the changes to battle spirit.

Why do that when the issue is affecting pve just as much. Content is far far too easy to tank with block how it is now...

interesting

Aerem

ak_pvp wrote: »

Lord the things I would do for a dot attached to leap.

The hate tells and nerf cries for leap on amazing as is. 10-15k aoe leaps on over half the builds I face, and never below 6k even on tanky characters.

Add a DB level dot and the cries will be massive.

@ak_pvp I mean at that point it would completely overshadow meteor, only reason I use meteor is for the dot damage that comes with it.

But a dot on leap would be just nasty. As someone who builds for higher damage leaps, at the expense of being squishier, the dot would be outrageous.

Maura_Neysa

I agree, messing with Block Cost again is going to anger a lot of people. The Morrowind changes already force tank Meta to all Sturdy.
Adding it to Battlespirt or Champion points makes sense, also possibly adjust the Heavy Armor passives, though that may depend on the effect of removing Wrath( nerfing Heavy Armor DPS)

Personally being both a PvP and PvE tank, I like where block is at in both. It should take an extremely top end DPS/multiple DPS to take down a tank in Cyrodiil and it should be hard fought for it.
- A build designed to stay alive through 4+ average players attacking, but unable to kill them, should be viable

Honestly I think those that complain about perma-blocking just aren't countering Block properly, and potentially because of hybrid DPS/Tanks. - Break Free and Dodge Rolls cost 4 times that of block and are rarely needed in PvE content in comparison. Tanks can stay CC'd because they are staying in the Heals too. Where as in Cryodiil, having Block force dropped by a hard CC while DoTs are layed forces the Break Free. If used properly sooner or later the Permablocker is out of stamina to Breakfree.

The real issue I believe is the balance between trading defensive and offensive. If someone wants to be unkillable and uneffective what does that matter?

Maura_Neysa

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Bowser wrote: »

Block cost increase in PvE is unacceptable.

I don't know about that . Block cost is so low even average PVE players can solo tank world bosses for so long their minuscule damage eventually brings them down . An these world bosses were buffed to be group attacked .

Average DPS solo World Bosses too. I can even solo Wrathgar , Vvardenfell, and Clockwork bosses in Light Armor magikca Warden (Lowest DPS in the game.) A tank willing to spend 4 times as long to solo them isn't an issue.

Considering that post Morrowind the Stamina loss due to blocking in all sturdy with cost reduction is still 250/0.5 seconds or -1000 recovery, block really isn't all that cheap

Savos_Saren

I'd suggest that ZoS delicately balances block costs while keeping in mind that they've somewhat pigeonholed mDKs and magplars into stand-your-ground builds with very limited mobility.

If suddenly our blocking isn't viable for standing our ground- then they need to compensate the classes with some form of reliable mobility. (Chains is garbage and neither class should be forced into vampirism just for mobility.)

The only reason mDKs don't have an mobility or an execute is because of their "class defining" tankiness (which is in danger of being nerfed) and resource management (which has already been nerfed).

jkolb2030

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

These are amazing . I love them . And you will be doing this every month ?! I am so happy . I really am .

*sheds a tear*

Yep, the plan is to do a general combat-related update each month. Next month, you can likely expect to see updates on what we talked about here, if anything has changed or pivoted, if we're looking at anything different, etc. And thanks for the constructive feedback so far - the team is reading, and we appreciate you all chiming in with your thoughts!

I like hearing this!

Question though... Are you guys looking into making the magDK whip act the same as a heavy attack on enemies affected by off-balance? Currently, magDK have all but lost their spots in competitive Trials because their whips using up off-balance; this is moreso a problem than heavy attacks in general because the whip is the magDK spammable skill.

It would be very nice to see the magDK whips work the same as heavy attacks in regards to this off-balance update.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

NBrookus

Aerem wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Lord the things I would do for a dot attached to leap.

The hate tells and nerf cries for leap on amazing as is. 10-15k aoe leaps on over half the builds I face, and never below 6k even on tanky characters.

Add a DB level dot and the cries will be massive.

@ak_pvp I mean at that point it would completely overshadow meteor, only reason I use meteor is for the dot damage that comes with it.

But a dot on leap would be just nasty. As someone who builds for higher damage leaps, at the expense of being squishier, the dot would be outrageous.

Forget buffing Leap. It's fine; good damage and utility (except when it bugs out). Give DKs another way to actually kill someone other than waiting for your leap to get up. The first 2 ticks of a class DoT can't be purged, or something like that.

Chims

double the dps on baleful mist so it becomes usable

Maura_Neysa

Veg wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

wow man, your stam doesnt go under 51% - you can block forever. you do realize this is the kind of things ZOS is trying to eliminate right?

Hmm... you seem to have completely missed the point. I used examples from before the blocking and healing nerf to show that you canot have half decent damage and tank like that. It's even more impossible now. Also I did drop below 50% stam. I just use a potion or ult to get my 5-7k stam back.

If you want to see what my tanking is like now (after doubled block cost) just watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwNacQgFVQ&feature=youtu.be

no, i got your point and i do very much appreciate your responses and posting of actual footage of your build in action. It's like you had nothing to hide, you know? very honest responses and thank you again.

regardless, I fought against you a few times in BGs and it was just one of the least fun experiences i had ever had. primarily because we were doing domination and you were simply unkillable.

The most recent video still displays a high degree of survivability that is beyond the average ability to survive. Its not fun when opponents dont die. Props for making the build work, i really mean that, you know, no cheese, legit making it work, but i still think it does more harm than good.

I haven't used my damage build much recently so I can't relate to the frustration of fighting tanks anymore. Apparently it annoys everyone quite a bit... But believe me i'm kill able and when I manage to survive an entire fight its a lot of fun for me.

Guaranteed way to kill anyone (including me): Dawn breaker + jabs. Only requirements are that dawnbreaker stuns the target and you have enough crit chance and damage. Kills me from full health every time. Granted only a few players can pull this off and usually require a healer so they don't die first.

But yeah I don't think that stam DK's, stam/magic sorcs, stam/magic wardens or magic nightblades have any good way of killing me in a small scale fight. Only stamplars and stamblades can steam roll me with burst damage. Really makes me wonder why those 2 extremes aren't acknowledged as much as my tanking.

Another thing; I always end up tanking on my mDK because there is nothing more effective. It's the exact same reason stamplars end up with that dawnbreaker + jabs combo. If fire leap did a DoT instead of giving me a shield i'd be just as good at killing as a stamplar minus the movement mechanics. But wrobel is very insistent that mDK's are for holding your ground and not steam rolling pugs. That is left to the stamplars.

Tanks are meant to be survivable. It’s not even limited to DKs my Warden tank fights look the same way.. There are absolutely builds out there that can solo a tank, but that definitely isn’t the average player.
https://youtu.be/a1maQEIHflM

Cinbri

The problem of "being in group should grant better sustain" for templar not working.
For example ordinary group of 4man - templar-heal, dk tank, nb and sorc dds. Templar will gtant all the sustain to team by Shards but he himself won't get better sustain for being in group.
This was fair only during first weeks of morrowind when luminous shards restored resources to caster by synnergy, i.e. giving better sustain from being in group.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

Was this for November 2017?

UppGRAYxDD

I like all the issues being looked at, but why not look at removing AOE caps to fight this zerg mentality that has been ravaging cyrodil lately?

ak_pvp

Cinbri wrote: »

The problem of "being in group should grant better sustain" for templar not working.
For example ordinary group of 4man - templar-heal, dk tank, nb and sorc dds. Templar will gtant all the sustain to team by Shards but he himself won't get better sustain for being in group.
This was fair only during first weeks of morrowind when luminous shards restored resources to caster by synnergy, i.e. giving better sustain from being in group.

Let's not buff groups more.