Monthly Combat Update – November

luen79rwb17_ESO

ZOS is simply on the next-level awesome with this thread!

Next challenge: implement small patches on the PTS with these changes! I know you can do it ZOS!!!

Vesper_BR

_Salty_ wrote: »

All of these tears shed regarding Perma block builds yet Sorc shields remain untouched. No class couples damage mitigation and burst potential with zero drawbacks like a Sorc.

But hey, let's adjust block cost again and not touch Sorcs. A block build has to be Taylor made to be effective with drawbacks while a Sorc just stacks magicka and Presto!! Huge shields and high burst and escape ability.

As im trying to reason in other post.
Make them critable, make them be reduced with defile.... As any other class has its survivability reduced by defile, since only sorcs have the most of its damage going to shield, they should be weakned like any other class when affected by defile.


@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

Veg

All these posts claiming that it's possible to never drop block and have good damage...

Rickter

Veg wrote: »

All these posts claiming that it's possible to never drop block and have good damage...

care to enlighten us then Veg? considering youve seemed to master perma blocking. . .

bostonguitarkid

This is an outstanding idea. Big props to Gina/Devs/zos for this idea (also the changes look like trending in a positive direction which is even better)

Keep it up!

Veg

Rickter wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

All these posts claiming that it's possible to never drop block and have good damage...

care to enlighten us then Veg? considering youve seemed to master perma blocking. . .

Okay, heres your perma block damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMMcOuD_H2A

Notice that none of my damage can even crit for >3k no matter what ability or ult I use for damage. Yet that nb at the beginning still died. Any time a build like mine gets kills it's because the people attacking me are so focused on doing damage that they don't heal or mitigate any of their damage taken. That nb may be a bad example as they killed themselves on my reflect...

As for why my damage is so low it comes down to what stats I need to keep block up at almost all times without being killed while blocking.

Lets assume i'm in the middle of both opposing factions mega zergs. I'll need around 38k health, 14k stam and maximun block cost reduction to keep blocking and get enough healing from dragon blood, ultimates and potions to not die for at least 8 seconds . Now I need to get the magic regen to extend that 8 seconds. In the current patch I can last around 12 seconds before i'm out of either magic or stam. When that video was recorded I could last forever or die from stun lock.

So there have been some pretty big nerfs to this kind of playstyle. Mainly the doubled block cost and less healing done from champion points. I now have about 600 less magic regen and blocking cost me about 200 more stam per 0,5 seconds.

Heres some examples of maximun tanking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKw1nN51PSs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yaSIwnweHE

Also I still never see any other tanks actually take damage from that many players and not die in 5 seconds. Everyone seems too focused on their crit resistance and armor rating.

Rickter

wow man, your stam doesnt go under 51% - you can block forever. you do realize this is the kind of things ZOS is trying to eliminate right?

Veg

Rickter wrote: »

wow man, your stam doesnt go under 51% - you can block forever. you do realize this is the kind of things ZOS is trying to eliminate right?

Hmm... you seem to have completely missed the point. I used examples from before the blocking and healing nerf to show that you canot have half decent damage and tank like that. It's even more impossible now. Also I did drop below 50% stam. I just use a potion or ult to get my 5-7k stam back.

If you want to see what my tanking is like now (after doubled block cost) just watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwNacQgFVQ&feature=youtu.be

SodanTok

I guess this is not something you would change, but it would be very good if heavy attacks were more standardized . Meaning the speed and damage between faster/lowest and slower/highest were much closer.

In this forced heavy attack meta and sustain need, heavy attack that is 2 times slower has much more burden packed to it than the faster one and having 2 times more resources just does not outweighs it in the slightest. Notably the boring ones - 2h, fire destro, bow.

Rickter

Veg wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

wow man, your stam doesnt go under 51% - you can block forever. you do realize this is the kind of things ZOS is trying to eliminate right?

Hmm... you seem to have completely missed the point. I used examples from before the blocking and healing nerf to show that you canot have half decent damage and tank like that. It's even more impossible now. Also I did drop below 50% stam. I just use a potion or ult to get my 5-7k stam back.

If you want to see what my tanking is like now (after doubled block cost) just watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwNacQgFVQ&feature=youtu.be

no, i got your point and i do very much appreciate your responses and posting of actual footage of your build in action. It's like you had nothing to hide, you know? very honest responses and thank you again.

regardless, I fought against you a few times in BGs and it was just one of the least fun experiences i had ever had. primarily because we were doing domination and you were simply unkillable.

The most recent video still displays a high degree of survivability that is beyond the average ability to survive. Its not fun when opponents dont die. Props for making the build work, i really mean that, you know, no cheese, legit making it work, but i still think it does more harm than good.

Veg

Rickter wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

wow man, your stam doesnt go under 51% - you can block forever. you do realize this is the kind of things ZOS is trying to eliminate right?

Hmm... you seem to have completely missed the point. I used examples from before the blocking and healing nerf to show that you canot have half decent damage and tank like that. It's even more impossible now. Also I did drop below 50% stam. I just use a potion or ult to get my 5-7k stam back.

If you want to see what my tanking is like now (after doubled block cost) just watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwNacQgFVQ&feature=youtu.be

no, i got your point and i do very much appreciate your responses and posting of actual footage of your build in action. It's like you had nothing to hide, you know? very honest responses and thank you again.

regardless, I fought against you a few times in BGs and it was just one of the least fun experiences i had ever had. primarily because we were doing domination and you were simply unkillable.

The most recent video still displays a high degree of survivability that is beyond the average ability to survive. Its not fun when opponents dont die. Props for making the build work, i really mean that, you know, no cheese, legit making it work, but i still think it does more harm than good.

I haven't used my damage build much recently so I can't relate to the frustration of fighting tanks anymore. Apparently it annoys everyone quite a bit... But believe me i'm kill able and when I manage to survive an entire fight its a lot of fun for me.

Guaranteed way to kill anyone (including me): Dawn breaker + jabs. Only requirements are that dawnbreaker stuns the target and you have enough crit chance and damage. Kills me from full health every time. Granted only a few players can pull this off and usually require a healer so they don't die first.

But yeah I don't think that stam DK's, stam/magic sorcs, stam/magic wardens or magic nightblades have any good way of killing me in a small scale fight. Only stamplars and stamblades can steam roll me with burst damage. Really makes me wonder why those 2 extremes aren't acknowledged as much as my tanking.

Another thing; I always end up tanking on my mDK because there is nothing more effective. It's the exact same reason stamplars end up with that dawnbreaker + jabs combo. If fire leap did a DoT instead of giving me a shield i'd be just as good at killing as a stamplar minus the movement mechanics. But wrobel is very insistent that mDK's are for holding your ground and not steam rolling pugs. That is left to the stamplars.

maboleth

Did I get it right? We will get combat patch each month? Or are we just having insight on what will come in 3-4 months time (regular patch)?

DosPanchos

God bless you for dealing with us turds, Gina.

Waffennacht

I'm scared about cool downs being added to all abilities in the future

LordSlif

U ZOS should change the extra fire damage and poison damage that vampires and werewolves recives, specifically on pvp. I do not care about the werewolves, but a lot of players are vamps in this game and there is a class that deals fire damage as
their main damage type, so they are the only one class with an advantege of 25% damage above a lot of players and the all other classes too, do u really know what is 25% extra dmg on pvp? The problem is: there is a class that deals fire damage, exclusively, with all their skills, so this class is getting huge advantge above the others classes.
U should remove it.

ps: skill class
edit because i was tired when i wrote it

_Salty_

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm scared about cool downs being added to all abilities in the future

Good God I hope not. Despite the faults this game has with balance, the combat in general is top notch.

newtinmpls

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’d like to begin giving you a bit more insight as to what the combat team is currently working on, save for any new features or systems that we simply aren’t ready to discuss yet. The plan is to make a new post similar to this each month. In order for this to work, though, everyone must understand that this is all work in development and has a high probability to change. As long as discussions stay civil, we’ll continue posting these updates.

With that said, below are a few things (not everything!) the combat team is currently working on for Update 17.

Goal: Improve Synergies

Wow....that would be terrific. There is SO much trouble with that.

Vesper_BR

LordSlif wrote: »

U ZOS should change the extra fire damage and poison damage that vampires and werewolfs recives, specifically on pvp. I do not care about the werewolfs, but a lot of players are vamps in this game and there is a class that deals fire damage as
their main damage type, so they are only one class with an advantege of 25% damage above a lot of players and the all other classes too, do u really know what 25% extra dmg is on pvp? Im dnt care about 25% extra dmg the problem is: there is exclusivity a class that deals fire damage with all their skills, so this class is getting huge advantge above the others classes
ps: skill class

No...

Don't want to take more fire and poison damage, don't became it...

If not all players will only have it's benefits...

AhPook_Is_Here

I was tossing around playing this game again, is there anyway you can keep a codex of current game rules, exceptions and all ranges, cast times and order of operations for each function? It would also be nice to get expressions of each ability and its potential modifiers.

It would be really nice if there was some source of information that was official and current so one could make intelligent decisions without wasting resources on frivolous experiments.

I wouldn't even know where to start today, so having some kind of tool like this might be a way to recapture a few interested potential players.

kookster

I feel concerned about the interrupting abilities cc's. This feels like mostly a nerf to templar and magsorc who most commonly use channeled abilities in pvp. Though I feel magsorc does need a bit of a nerf. I dont feel magtemplar does.

ManDraKE

kookster wrote: »

I feel concerned about the interrupting abilities cc's. This feels like mostly a nerf to templar and magsorc who most commonly use channeled abilities in pvp. Though I feel magsorc does need a bit of a nerf. I dont feel magtemplar does.

if they force interrupts into hard CC's, is going to be *** for 2 reasons:

- Interrupts set you offbalance, is a 10% damage increase with the CP tree blue passive. We would lost that if they change it to a hard cc
- CC Inmunity will make you interrupt-inmune? no please...inmobable pot and enjoy your 15 seconds interrupt-inmunity lol

This would be a really stupid change

GodHawk

maboleth wrote: »

Did I get it right? We will get combat patch each month? Or are we just having insight on what will come in 3-4 months time (regular patch)?

Just a insight what its comming

Vesper_BR

It's would be cool if they release a combat update every month... With many things to adjust, monthly updates are far better than at every new dlc...

Dubhliam

Can we please move out of the "class balance" discussion?

I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss class balance, just NOT HERE.

ZOS gave us insight into their plans, how about we give them costructive feedback about what they plan on doing instead of what we think they should do.

Didgerion

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Goal: Improve Interrupt

• Add a stun to interrupts – if a player gets interrupted, they get stunned (and therefore get CC immunity when they break it)
• Add a short cooldown to an interrupted ability to add interesting gameplay to interrupts
• Add interrupt telegraphs to cast time abilities when players are not CC immune

Feels bad man, there are just few skills that can be interrupted, and none of them will be used after the above implementation.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Goal: Improving Off Balance + Heavy Attacks

• Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
  • Effect is only consumed if the target is knocked down from a Heavy Attack
  • Attacking an Off Balance enemy with a Heavy Attack restores 2x resources
  • After Off Balance ends, the target is immune for a period of time
• Test making the following changes to make Heavy Attacks feel better:
  • Shorten the Heavy Attack cooldown to approximately 300ms from 700ms
  • Shorten the global cast speed penalty of Heavy Attacks to 50% from 75%

Make sure you balance CP tree accordingly. Setting an enemy of balance by roll-dodging an attack will give stamina builds an edge over the magica builds (not like they don't have the edge already).

Also Off-balance thing will synergy better on some classes (mag DKs for example). If you add this game-changing mechanic then make sure that all classes have ways of setting enemies of-balance.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I was tossing around playing this game again, is there anyway you can keep a codex of current game rules, exceptions and all ranges, cast times and order of operations for each function? It would also be nice to get expressions of each ability and its potential modifiers.

It would be really nice if there was some source of information that was official and current so one could make intelligent decisions without wasting resources on frivolous experiments.

I wouldn't even know where to start today, so having some kind of tool like this might be a way to recapture a few interested potential players.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Skills this link is exactly what you want, you will find all skills, pretty much up to date and you can even find everyone if the skills "expressions of each ability and its potential modifiers"

techprince

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’d like to begin giving you a bit more insight as to what the combat team is currently working on, save for any new features or systems that we simply aren’t ready to discuss yet. The plan is to make a new post similar to this each month. In order for this to work, though, everyone must understand that this is all work in development and has a high probability to change. As long as discussions stay civil, we’ll continue posting these updates.

With that said, below are a few things (not everything!) the combat team is currently working on for Update 17.

Goal: Improve Synergies

• Ensure that when players are prompted to use a synergy, they can always use it
• Players should always know where a synergy is; working to improve visual effects to support this
• Group mates shouldn’t have to fight each other to use a synergy
• When players use a synergy, it should fire immediately with no delay
• Synergies are the way to help groups be stronger than solo players, damage and resource sustain should always be better while in a group
• Review and standardize balance for synergy abilities; Ultimate synergies should be stronger than regular abilities

Goal: Improve Interrupt

• Add a stun to interrupts – if a player gets interrupted, they get stunned (and therefore get CC immunity when they break it)
• Add a short cooldown to an interrupted ability to add interesting gameplay to interrupts
• Add interrupt telegraphs to cast time abilities when players are not CC immune

Goal: Investigating Perma-blocking

• Adjust the block calculations so that cost reduction happens first (might have to reduce the block cost slightly as a result)
• Investigate adding something to Champion passives, or an item set to increase the block cost

Goal: Improving Off Balance + Heavy Attacks

• Test the following changes, with the end goal to have Off Balance be more useful for everyone:
  • Effect is only consumed if the target is knocked down from a Heavy Attack
  • Attacking an Off Balance enemy with a Heavy Attack restores 2x resources
  • After Off Balance ends, the target is immune for a period of time
• Test making the following changes to make Heavy Attacks feel better:
  • Shorten the Heavy Attack cooldown to approximately 300ms from 700ms
  • Shorten the global cast speed penalty of Heavy Attacks to 50% from 75%

You may notice we haven’t listed any class balance changes in this list. This doesn’t mean there won’t be any adjustments; we’re just still looking at what needs to be tweaked.

So, what about perma roll dodging or perma shielding, perma healing?

Eirella

I think you guys need to look at healing: it's way too strong in PVP.

Rickter

Eirella wrote: »

I think you guys need to look at healing: it's way too strong in PVP.

because of Earthgore?

Qbiken

Rickter wrote: »

Eirella wrote: »

I think you guys need to look at healing: it's way too strong in PVP.

because of Earthgore?

I´ve seen a lot of posts/threads lately that Malubeth (when it procs) makes all your healing ignore battle spirit. My theory is that it´s not the Malubeth set itself causing this, but the buff it provides (Major Vitality). This is just pure theory and I haven´t tested it, but I think it could be worth testing to see if that could be a reason to "big heals".