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Grinding to 50 is Deterring me from Creating Alts. Why is it There?

bhagwad
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I thought I'd take advantage of the double XP witches festival to level a new magicka NB. I already have a CP 470 Templar and DK, and I run dungeons exclusively. So I'm not interested in questing, or the storyline. That's simply not why I play.

But my god, the tedium of running Dolmens. I hit lvl 31, before I gave up. Why Dolmens, you ask? Because:

1. Questing is too slow
2. Killing zombies in Alik'r requires others not to mess up your kills
3. Grinding skyreach is I don't know - how many levels will I get if I pay for a skyreach run at lvl 31? Also expensive

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

Suggestions:

1. I don't mind paying crowns for a consumable that brings us up to 50. Make it so that you need to already have some characters at lvl cap before you can use it.

2. Award "books" or "tomes" or some other consumable when doing regular content like dungeons. These account bound tomes can be consumed to raise your character's lvl by 1. This way, we can all do stuff on our regular toons and lvl up alts quickly. (Like GW2).

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning. It's just a grind with no enjoyment, no benefits, no learning. I already have my armor sets waiting to equip my lvl 50 toon. Doesn't even matter that I don't know all the skills. Once I'm at 50, I'll go into my house and practice my rotations on a skeleton to polish everything up.

But until the road to 50 is made less tedious, I'm going to hold off on leveling up my NB.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Have you considered it is okay not to have alts? If you think it is such a pain maybe you ought to be okay with just one toon.
  • Maikon
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    It's an MMO, enough said.
  • IronCrystal
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    If those are the only three ways you think there are to level up...you should explore the world of tamriel some more.

    Especially with the introduction of One Tamriel, you can grind pretty much anywhere there is a steady income of enemies.

    FYI, I always do zombie in Alik'r if I'm by myself, so I'm not sure what problems you have. It's the same as any other public area with other players.
    Edited by IronCrystal on October 31, 2017 10:26PM
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  • redspecter23
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    3 hours of grind is too much for you? This game is amazingly alt friendly due to the CP system. You also don't need to do any quests if you choose not to. Or you can. It's up to you. Collect as many or as few skill points as you want. It's all up to you.

    I wish ZOS would have a level 50 token in the store so people can pay $100 for a level 50 character only to realize they still need to go collect skills and skill points to get where they need to be. Getting to 50 is easy. The other character advancement is the actual time sink.
  • Darethran
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    It's a mechanic that the gaming industry won't let go of. Back in the days of the 80886, sure, I can understand why developers would artificially extend the length of a game made to fit on a floppy disk.

    Nowadays, it's a way to force you to keep playing, which means you're more likely to spend on the cash shop.
    In Scotland | @Darethran

    [EU] Ervona Saranith (EP) - Lvl 50 CP >560 - Dunmer Healer
  • Parrot1986
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    I’d rather run maelstrom arena, levels up fighters guild you get plunder skulls and it’s not as boring as skyreach or dolmens.

    Either way you can get to 50 in less than 10 hours without even trying.
  • Elsonso
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    bhagwad wrote: »
    My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

    For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

    It's an RPG, which means that the game starts when you create the character, not when you hit Level 50. It sounds to me like you are looking for something else.

    All of my level 50 characters are "done" for me. All they are good for is "maintenance" stuff like daily writs. I might use them for new content, like Morrowind or CWC, but my active characters are all under level 50.

    I know that I am far from the norm here, but this is how I play RPG games. Max level means "game over", start again.
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  • SirDopey
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    With the Witches Festival double XP and experience pots skyreach is super fast. I helped a guild mate grind her character from 34 to 50 and it took an hour and 52 minutes.

    How expensive that is I don't know as I never charge for it when I do it.....

    As for my reasons for keeping it as it is, there are already enough people on vet characters that have no idea how to play. Not everyone will be like you and go practice on the skeleton instead they'll waltz into vet dungeons with no clue about their character and ruin the experience for other players.
    Edited by SirDopey on October 31, 2017 10:41PM
    NA PC | AD
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  • Alaztor91
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    Kinda agree with OP, overland content is so easy that grinding to 50 vs a consumable that brings you to lvl 50 wouldn't really make a difference since you don't really learn anything about your character doing quests or delves.(I just had a CP 690 sorc in vBC1 pledge hard casting crystal frags over and over... come on)

    As for your second suggestion it's something that directly competes with crown store xp scrolls so ZOS probably won't add them.
  • SirAxen
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    bhagwad wrote: »
    My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

    For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

    It's an RPG, which means that the game starts when you create the character, not when you hit Level 50. It sounds to me like you are looking for something else.

    All of my level 50 characters are "done" for me. All they are good for is "maintenance" stuff like daily writs. I might use them for new content, like Morrowind or CWC, but my active characters are all under level 50.

    I know that I am far from the norm here, but this is how I play RPG games. Max level means "game over", start again.

    I would also add onto this with: If you don't care at all about story or the universe in which you're playing in, then why play ESO as well? At the end of the day, it's an Elder Scrolls Game that is played Online. I couldn't imagine playing this game and having zero interest in the universe/lore I was running around in.
  • mirta000b16_ESO
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    "questing is too slow"
    What is there at end game that you require a fully leveled character for it? Planning it for PvP? Then go and PvP. Need it for raids? Well do you need it for raids RIGHT NOW? If not, then perhaps take the slow but not boring root? If you do, then tedium is just the price you'll have to pay...
  • geonsocal
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    ewwww, scary subject: buying level 50...

    and - the answer: nope...

    not even sure why - just a hard no...never gave it thought before to be honest...

    hmmmm, i don't know - maybe this is the future of mmo's...can't imagine it not being a huge revenue generator...

    until, lots of folks left the game...or, who knows - maybe this is the future of mmo's...
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place
  • kargen27
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    Why grind? Enjoy the game. Low level characters can run dungeons and with the changes you won't be getting the DLC dungeons unless you want to run them specifically. Just grabbing skyshards and doing delves will have you to level 50 fairly quick and you get the added bonus of enough skill points to have most of your skill well on their way to leveled.

    You don't have to hop on a new character and stay with him/her until she reaches 50.

    I'm not sure how you can find going up against a world boss more tedious than standing in front of a practice dummy. There is content out there that will both level you and let you work out your rotations. Take advantage.

    I've got eleven characters fully leveled and am thinking about deleting my mule and running up a 12th character. Some of them I leveled through questing some just by starting on one side of a zone and killing everything I saw until I reached the other side. Others I did in delves and dungeons. I never let it become a grind. If leveling your character is becoming a grind put it away for a while or try something different with it. Hitting level 50 even with just goofing off doesn't take a whole lot of time so my advice is simply slow down and enjoy playing the character. The leveling will take care of itself.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • AlienatedGoat
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    I'd be fine with a level 50 potion as long as it was:
    • Also available in game for gold.
    • Only usable by accounts that have a level 50 character.

    If done right, it would be fair and balanced. The character slot cap already is a built-in measure so that people will still have a limited number of alts.

    That being said, there are a few downsides to being instantly level 50.

    You won't get skyshards, lorebooks, and other things through the sub-50 exploration that most people do to level alts.

    You won't get a chance to gain experience and "a feel" for your character and class. Most people by level 50 have a good idea on how to play their alt.
    Edited by AlienatedGoat on October 31, 2017 10:50PM
    PC-NA Goat
  • PlagueSD
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    leveling is fine in this game. My two friends and I wanted to swap our normal roles up and create alts. Tank rolls healer, healer rolls dps, and I roll a tank. Just casually running dungeons together and I'm already level 40 on my tank. I see leveling as a chance to learn the class, not a grind.

    I hope to God there never is an insta-50 character option in ESO. That's one of the top reasons I no longer play WoW. Too many players with max level characters that have absolutely NO IDEA how to play them.
  • dmnqwk
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    Games usually come in two styles - achievement or storytelling - but MMOs have so far always had both parts.

    Achievement games are not all about scoring imaginary points but setting personal goals and focusing on achieving them. Sports games, where there is very rarely a way to achieve actual completion, are commonly found within this segment of gaming. Often designed with a competitive player in mind they also cater to those looking to simply kill time (Clicker games often fall into this category). The end is generally determined by a player's decision to finish as opposed to anything the developer designs.

    Storytelling games, such as most action or adventure games are all about following the beginning, middle and end of the story (either with a single, fixed ending or sometimes containing multiple endings to encourage replayability). Because they have a more rigid structure in terms of where you can go or what you can do, you often find these sorts of games come with an expected playtime (as in when you play through this is how long it should take you). The end is determined by the developer as opposed to the player.

    What MMO developers decided to do was create an Adventure game that allowed a player to go further than the story allowed, expanding into the realm of sports games where the player could choose when they ended their time in the game.
    I actually agree that the initial levelling is a drag, especially on second or third characters, but why hasn't a single game decided to abandon classes to give a player the freedom to have everything on a single character without additional levelling? The answer generally lies in how many games still believe this initial levelling period is necessary to ensure the game will be successful. Perhaps in time we will see MMOs who focus entirely on Achievements instead of Storytelling, and thus begin all characters in the end game, but I don't believe it will be any time soon purely because it's much easier to get players hooked with the initial levelling period than it is by letting a player do whatever they want from the outset with no clear guide to ease them into the game!
  • Iluvrien
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    I know it won't happen, but I have this wonderful dream about ZOS creating an "Endgame" server.

    Players who want to, and have hit 50 on at least one character could be offered the option to transfer to the Endgame server. Once there, they could create as many other L50s as they want and ZOS could carry out their balance passes there (rather than on NA or EU).

    NA and EU characters would get messed around less often.

    The competitive content community could focus on what they like, the casual community could focus on what they like... and never the twain shall meet. Both would be happier, I suspect.

    If you think that the "real game starts after that" (L50) then we are playing different games. I wish ZOS would recognise this.


    Still, just wishful thinking, never going to happen.
  • Denyiir
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    I bet even if they increased exp gain x 10, there will always be some guy making posts it's to slow anyway.

    ZOS please bring back veteran ranks, let them feel the pain because they don't know what they talking about. I'd like to take a bath in those tears :)
  • code65536
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    LOL! If you thought that grinding to 50 is bad, you should've been here over a year ago.

    You see, back then, you had to level a character to 50. And then you hit the vet ranks. And you had to level each character from VR1 to VR16 before they could wear max-level gear and use max-level consumables. And each vet rank cost 850K XP, which wasn't so bad, because each rank used to cost 1 million XP. And even that was a lot faster than the original system where each rank cost more than the previous.

    When vet ranks were removed (VR16 gear became CP160 gear, and VR15 potions became CP150 potions), the VR1-16 progression was replaced by the CP10-160 progression. Aside from CP10-160 being something that you did only once per account instead of once per character, the CP10-160 progression was also cheaper, and it benefits from daily CP enlightenment (which VR did not).

    Those of us who remember those VR days think that leveling these days is trivially easy. And it's absolutely hilarious to see people complaining about 1-50. You're complaining about having to walk four blocks down the road to buy milk, when leveling used to be like running a Marathon. We just look at this thread and think, "Aww, how quaint."

    Also, dolmens? Skywatch carries? LOL. The 1-50 leveling is supposed to be where you learn the class and get a feel for how to play it. You learn nothing when you waste away at a dolmen or pay for a Skywatch carry. Go do normal Maelstrom instead. The XP is fast, the action is fun, and you'll actually learn a thing or two about how to play.
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  • Sheezabeast
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    The purpose of the grind to 50 is for people to learn how to play the character and for them to develop their skill lines.
    Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!
  • PlagueSD
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    but why hasn't a single game decided to abandon classes to give a player the freedom to have everything on a single character without additional levelling?

    You've never played The Secret World, have you? There are no "classes" in that game. Although will take quite a long time to accomplish, you can also get EVERY SINGLE ABILITY in that game.
  • zaria
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    If those are the only three ways you think there are to level up...you should explore the world of tamriel some more.

    Especially with the introduction of One Tamriel, you can grind pretty much anywhere there is a steady income of enemies.

    FYI, I always do zombie in Alik'r if I'm by myself, so I'm not sure what problems you have. It's the same as any other public area with other players.
    This, public dungeons are nice, you get an skill point.
    Random normals once a day will give you a level with quest and kills, 2 during the event, this works much better now, no more level 10 in ICP.

    you also need skill point in addition to levels, lore books if magic build.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • bhagwad
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    To those who're asking, I spend 100% of my time in vet DLC dungeons. I wanted to test out the performance of a magicka nightblade.

    Can anyone tell me what value a lvl 1-50 grind is going to bring me?
    Edited by bhagwad on October 31, 2017 11:28PM
  • SydneyGrey
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    I would be ok with there being a potion/scroll to make your alts level 50 instantly, but only if you already have a completely leveled character, as the OP said. It would be a bad idea for a newbie to miss out on leveling up their character, because they learn so much about the game the first time they level one up.

    With me, I'm currently leveling my 14th character. I have zero desire to level her up slowly. I already know how to play just fine. If there was an insta-leveling scroll, I'd snag one right now.
  • rynth
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    I agree always felt they should have a crown token to lvl 50 where you only get skill pts and attribute pts for regular lvls 1 through 50. hell TOR and WOW off those same type of tokens, I'm sure it's not far off they off lvl 50 tokens.
    When asked what he would do for a Klondike bar. Grand Moff Tarkin said "why I would blow up Alderaan."
  • jaws343
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    The purpose of the grind to 50 is for people to learn how to play the character and for them to develop their skill lines.

    I use the grind to 50 to get a feel for my character. No skyreach grind (unless I go solo), no zombie or dolmen grind. Just dungeon and dolmen zone clears and random normal dungeon runs. Getting those skill points from the dungeon quests is very helpful and running dungeons, even on a PVP build, gives you a good feel for how the build will work, plus ot gets you started on the undaunted and fighters guild skill lines.
  • pod88kk
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    It takes a day & you learn which skills work for you. If you don't want alts dont make them, if you do, do... Simple
  • Asardes
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    During seasonal events you can grind to 50 quite fast on dolmens or nMA. Then go quest fully leveled and get maximum rewards from quests.
    Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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  • bmannb16_ESO
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    I can grind up a magica char in 6-8 hours, with the Halloween event I just did it in 4. And I only ran the first main quest mission, and 1 random daily dungeon.

    To be fair I'm at 700+ cp, so that can make a huge difference.
    Edited by bmannb16_ESO on October 31, 2017 11:51PM
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  • KRBMMO
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    They should just make CP 160 the new level one and rescale everything to CP 10,000.
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