Grinding to 50 is Deterring me from Creating Alts. Why is it There?

Ilithyania

Dont mind the XP grind. having 10 + alts is my own choice.

But, if there was a token, ill buy it.

Khenarthi

At level 31, you can bring your alt to random normal dungeons for levelling. If dungeons are what you find fun... level your NB while having fun. No?

Storymaster

I agree with @bhagwad 100%

Stinkyremy

Why don't you do the logical thing and do undaunted and pledge dailies, doing all the pub dungeons while you queue for random normal dungeons. You are leveling, leveling undaunted and getting a skill point in every group and pub dungeon, plus a guaranteed skyshard in each pub dungeon. Obviously use full training gear, at least blue quality. With CP you can run through the mobs everywhere.
I have levelled an alt form 15-50 in a day doing just that and I hit 50 doing the last group dungeon.

Girl_Number8

The game is beautiful, enjoy it! Try exploring the different areas and quests with your new character. The devs have put a lot of countless hours into these zones. Why dumb it down for someone who doesn't even care about 95% of the content and wants to play with a dummy?

Rawkan

You're acting like you're forced to level alts. Just do alts on the side when you feel like it. If it starts feeling like a job then stop and do something else.

Caligamy_ESO

I would have been bored 2 years ago and moved on if you didn't have to level your alts.

Surak73

Well, nowadays with double xp, ambrosia and the like you can reach level 50 on a new toon in a couple of days, if you want. In some more days, you can get more skill points and level your mages guild / undaunted as well. This is not exactly what I call a big grinding. A year and half ago, when you had to grind to rank 16 with any new character, THAT was a grinding...

Anyway, this is an MMO and levelling up chars is an essential part of the game. Maybe it should be the most important, as someone said. As for me, I can say that the time when I enjoyed the game the most was at launch (on PS4), two year and half ago, when I reached lev 50 on my first character in about a month doing all the quests from Auridon to Coldharbor, and then I reached veteran rank 14 in another couple of months doing all the quest in EP and DC. Of course, redoing all the process with any new toon would be much less enjoyable... But now, as said, you can have a new fully functional toon in less than a week.

MCBIZZLE300

Atleast you don't have to re grind cp again, that really would be a joke.

NordSwordnBoard

bhagwad wrote: »

To all the responses against instantly leveling from 1-50:

1. It's an MMO - that's the way it is!

That's an illogical response. It does not address why something should be there. Only that "It's always been this way".

2. It was much, much worse before with vet levels etc

Again, this is not a logical argument to make someone grind from 1-50. Sure, it might have been worse before. But so what? That has no impact on whether or not the current grind is necessary.

3. You should enjoy questing, developing your character etc.

Everyone plays for different reasons. You like to quest. Great! You like to develop your character. Fantastic! Others like me, like to play in the toughest content, and grinding from 1-50 gives me nothing by itself. It's just a meaningless hurdle - ESPECIALLY when we already have multiple characters at level cap.

4. Grinding allows you to learn your character

I ground my very first magplar from 1-50 the slow way. It did NOT prepare me for my vet dungeon rotations, weaving light attacks, timing buffs, resource management etc. The skills required to output maximum sustained DPS, healing, tanking, have NOTHING to do with the way you play while leveling up questing.

Not to mention that if you dolmen grind your skills, or get a skyreach carry, you won't learn anything anyway!

If I hit lvl 50 instantly, I will THEN learn how to do a proper DPS by repeatedly parsing and perfecting my skills on a target skeleton before I even set foot in a dungeon.

5. You won't have enough skill points if you just reach 50.

Since I've already maxed out crafting on my other two characters, I need just 80 skill points in total to complete my new build. I get 64 by leveling, 2 from stepping into Cyrodill. That means just 14 more points, and I can get those from finishing the dungeon quests. Problem solved.

Is there any OTHER reason anyone can give me to not instantly level from 1-50?

Yes. Like Adarklore said What is zos going to do with all those exp scrolls for sale that already become useless at cp 160?

They would be replacing one revenue stream with another, new one, that is probably going to bring in less revenue. Especially if you can buy your idea with gold to avoid p2w arguments.

They usually sweeten dlc packs with scrolls and have sales. The crown crates have versions too.

They make more profit charging people for quick level ups for two hours, than they would a one time charge.

Magdalina

O.O

This gotta be a necro from several years ago...that's...that's impossible that someone'd be complaining about leveling new chars NOW, right?

At launch leveling took you literally MONTHS(best case - weeks of grinding, and we didn't really have grinding til much later anyway) and it was character specific...no account wide cp or anything...I hit veteran 10(highest at the time) in my Reaper's March back then, having done EVERY SINGLE QUEST in every single zone in base game(15 alliance zones+Coldharbour+starter islands)...when I was last leveling a brand new character on EU a few months ago, she hit cp 160(meaning first she hit level 50, then got all the way to cp 160 for the first time on that server) after literally THREE full zones completed. Now admittedly I'm a completionist so "completed" implies pretty much every single quest in the zone but...are you serious? At this point you hit level 50 before you even finish leveling Fighters' guild...

With xp buff(there're so many now!) it'd probably take like one full zone to level 50. Or Idk couple hours of grinding. After which you'd still need to go level FG, MG if magicka and even class skilltrees because you hit lvl 50 so damn fast you barely have time to level anything, let alone learn the game if it's your first character.

The "painful grind"(lol) to 50 is the literally the shortest part of getting a new character. You also need to level FG, MG, UD, all your class trees, likely Alliance war skilltrees a bit, weapon trees etc. Seriously, if you simply go try to level FG(in whichever way you choose) from 1 to 10 on a brand new toon I bet you will hit level 50 BEFORE you hit level 10 FG, especially during those xp events.

The actual leveling part of getting an alt is already as easy as it can be, it's 100% pointless to make it any easier. In fact now that I realize just how fast it is even without cp, I do kind of wish it was longer for the sake of giving new players more time to get acquainted with the game before jumping into vet content.

Beardimus

Don't grind, its dull - just play the game and enjoy re-exploring the game with a new Toon. with all the double XP events it takes VERY little time to get a new character to L50

Grinding is the issue not L1-50

Iselin

You're choosing to play a game in a way other than the way it's designed to be played - which is fine, live and let live...

But then you QQ about it? Boggles the mind.

Gargath

Levelling new alt in a slow way can also be interesting. Watching the experience bar to increase than we get a new level, skill and attribute points, that's really cool. Once you reached lvl50, it's no more that feeling.
Recently I found boring to have 10 alts CP750 and deleted one just to start from scratch. To feel how it is though all the levels, how it is to ride slowly on the mount etc. From all 9 alts I play maybe 3 or 4 a bit plus a lot more on this newly created. CP750 alts already have builds and sets that I've chosen for them, but that new one I can still shape in different ways, craft new gears and change abilities.
Grinding and fast levelling is overrated, slow levelling has it's own purpose. And questing in those quests and areas long forgotten, like in the starting zones.

Iselin

Gargath wrote: »

Levelling new alt in a slow way can also be interesting. Watching the experience bar to increase than we get a new level, skill and attribute points, that's really cool. Once you reached lvl50, it's no more that feeling.
Recently I found boring to have 10 alts CP750 and deleted one just to start from scratch. To feel how it is though all the levels, how it is to ride slow on the mount etc. From all 9 alts I play maybe 3 or 4 a bit plus a lot more in this newly created.
Grinding and fast levelling is overrated, slow levelling has it's own purpose. And questing in those quests and areas long forgotten, like in the starting zones.

I do that on a regular basis with 3 slots, deleting and starting over when they hit 50. I started doing that when I played in the <50 PVP campaign a lot but now I also do it just for PVE... it's fun.

NotNormanBates

For me, the fun part of the game is in min-maxing and becoming as proficient as possible with a class. Leveling to 50 is essentially just a time sink in which i follow a dolman train or run in a circle repetitively killing zombies because its the fastest way to do it.

I can pretty much guarantee that id have alot more fun and alot more types of characters, as well as dip into pvp if there wasnt a 50 hour grind to get to place where i can start having fun.

The first few times were cool, now its just an unnecessary burden.

bhagwad

thedude33 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

It's an RPG, which means that the game starts when you create the character, not when you hit Level 50. It sounds to me like you are looking for something else.

All of my level 50 characters are "done" for me. All they are good for is "maintenance" stuff like daily writs. I might use them for new content, like Morrowind or CWC, but my active characters are all under level 50.

I know that I am far from the norm here, but this is how I play RPG games. Max level means "game over", start again.

Exactly. Not sure what the OP expects when he hits level 50. A parade ? A reward of 200 virgins?

It's simple. I would smack on my max level gear, put on my skill, hit the target dummy, practice my rotations, then go to vet DLC dungeons. That's where I spend all my time.

I can't do that with a sub lvl 50 character.

Biro123

levelled up an old magblade from 25 to 50 during the witches festival - just doing CWC quests (new zone, new quests, new character/skills to unlock/learn so wasn't dull) - while also doing a few random dungeons (one or 2/day just for the exp from first time quests/first random and the skillpoints).

Took 4-5 days(maybe 3 -4 hrs per day) - but the point is that I enjoyed playing and it wasn't a grind at all. The best way to 'grind' is not to grind. :-)

Of course I'm still unlocking skills (mainly weapon lines) in PVP - but again.. that isn't a grind either.. I just come up with new and interesting ways to play to get around those key missing skills.

Nogawd

Iselin wrote: »

You're choosing to play a game in a way other than the way it's designed to be played - which is fine, live and let live...

But then you QQ about it? Boggles the mind.

Yeah I don't get most of these people man. They seem to want everything at the snap of fingers, but then some will complain when there is no challenge. Maybe just this era we are in? Entitled cry babies really sour these forums.

Kode

I am in complete agreement with the OP, I think the leveling system is antiquated. ZOS is right there... they removed vet levels, they have a skill leveling system already in place, they have a champion point system that scales, every character essentially acts like they are level 50 from creation.
The downside is, they still have levels, gearing before level 50 is pointless since the leveling goes so quickly. Any gear earned at that time is worthless because nobody wants low level gear.
I would 100% support the removal of levels.

theslynx

Half of this thread is iterations upon 'play the game properly, OP.' 'Properly' is subjective for an open-ended game. It's great if people like raising alts, but if OP has some rationale by which reaching level cap is unsatisfying, that's fine. I doubt OP is alone in not enjoying the trek to 50 a second, third or seventh time. I kind of sympathise with him, and don't love bringing up alts. For instance, I like having a defined build, and leveling up means gear becomes obsolete often, so maintaining that build isn't particularly enjoyable for me.

Some responses amount to 'in my day, leveling was uphill both ways, so count your blessings.' I don't this this response as having much validity. 'Things used to be worse' isn't much of an argument for giving up on the possibility of future progress.

A bunch of comments in this thread distill down to 'you have to earn it.' But OP has suggested a few ways to earn level-ups, such as a GW2-type system. Do people feel this is not demanding enough?

I would suggest another might be that you can get a blessing removing Enlightenment on your CP-rank characters so you don't earn CP levels while playing, but you do earn account-bound XP scrolls or tomes for your alts.

I am a bit wary of real-money solutions, as this can incentivize slowing the process down for players to get more sales on consumables. I feel like there's enough that's already monetised in this game that this isn't something we should be suggesting for just about anything at this point.

Rouven

theslynx wrote: »

(...)

I would suggest another might be that you can get a blessing removing Enlightenment on your CP-rank characters so you don't earn CP levels while playing, but you do earn account-bound XP scrolls or tomes for your alts.
(...)

While I sort of like this suggestion - although I have a feeling if implemented the "switch" would probably be missing, so enlightenment will simply apply as an XP-boost to your character - we are going back to "ZOS is selling XP boosting scrolls" and I could imagine this hurting sales right there.

On the flipside maybe they could sell more character slots

Edit" Splelling is hard especially when you haven't had your coffee yet.

Khenarthi

theslynx wrote: »

Half of this thread is iterations upon 'play the game properly, OP.' 'Properly' is subjective for an open-ended game. It's great if people like raising alts, but if OP has some rationale by which reaching level cap is unsatisfying, that's fine. I doubt OP is alone in not enjoying the trek to 50 a second, third or seventh time. I kind of sympathise with him, and don't love bringing up alts. For instance, I like having a defined build, and leveling up means gear becomes obsolete often, so maintaining that build isn't particularly enjoyable for me.

Some responses amount to 'in my day, leveling was uphill both ways, so count your blessings.' I don't this this response as having much validity. 'Things used to be worse' isn't much of an argument for giving up on the possibility of future progress.

A bunch of comments in this thread distill down to 'you have to earn it.' But OP has suggested a few ways to earn level-ups, such as a GW2-type system. Do people feel this is not demanding enough?

I would suggest another might be that you can get a blessing removing Enlightenment on your CP-rank characters so you don't earn CP levels while playing, but you do earn account-bound XP scrolls or tomes for your alts.

I am a bit wary of real-money solutions, as this can incentivize slowing the process down for players to get more sales on consumables. I feel like there's enough that's already monetised in this game that this isn't something we should be suggesting for just about anything at this point.

I'm a big advocate of "play the way you want". So if the OP likes running dungeons, they can level while running dungeons. With a fresh class, I'm sure there will be a benefit to going to the normal difficulty ones, earning XP and skill points, before jumping into vet DLC ones.

br0steen

Back in my day it would take 40 hrs or more to grind a character to 50! Kids these days!

Get off my lawn!

Danksta

I don't think that the benefits that come with having more characters should just be handed to you. It's easy and quick enough as it is.

bhagwad

I have yet another suggestion. Let leveling to 50 be like researching an item trait that takes 1 month. I mean, grinding dolmens is not adding anything to my life. Might as well let the game do it for me in the background. I don't care how long it takes. As long as I don't have to sit in front of the screen with the controller doing it!

New passive: "Grind dolmens when offline!"

bhagwad

Danksta wrote: »

I don't think that the benefits that come with having more characters should just be handed to you. It's easy and quick enough as it is.

What is there to "earn" here exactly? It's not like it's some precious loot where you have the satisfaction of seeing the item you want finally drop. It's just an artificial hurdle.

Might as well say "Dig a hole for 50 hours and you're lvl 50".

Actually, here's another idea. Make leveling to 50 like an item drop. Every time you gain XP, you have a small chance to obtain an item that raises your max level by 1. This will make grinding for XP more fun since there's always the chance that you'll find something that will speed up your progress.

Finally, there's no "proper" way to play the game. Until a developer comes and says "This is our intention, and running vet DLC dungeons 100% of the time is UNINTENDED", I will assume that all ways of playing the game are equally valid.

Taleof2Cities

bhagwad wrote: »

I will assume that all ways of playing the game are equally valid.

Correct ... and equally valid is the concept that no one forces grinding on any player.

Only the player, who thinks they have to grind to get to level 50, forces that upon themself.

bhagwad

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

I will assume that all ways of playing the game are equally valid.

Correct ... and equally valid is the concept that no one forces grinding on any player.

Only the player, who thinks they have to grind to get to level 50, forces that upon themself.

If playing vet dungeons is a valid way of play, then leveling from 1-50 becomes an automatic grind since nothing in the process of leveling from 1-50 has any connection to how you play while in a vet dungeon.

Does 1-50 give gear you can use in vet dungeons? No.
Does it give you CP? No.
Does it improve the skills you use in vet dungeons? No. (That's an entirely different skill set)

Therefore, it is a grind.

Rouven

I think the PvP crown would like to have a word with you on "grind" re content that does not improve their skills for their preferred mode of play.


Not sure if this was mentioned already, but since it sounds like you only want to try it out why not create a character on the test server?