Grinding to 50 is Deterring me from Creating Alts. Why is it There?

Garwulf

The game does not begin until you are level 50. A serious failure of One Tamriel. Just get a port to Alik'r Desert and do the dolmen run. Level your character and skills as you grind to 50 and then start playing the game. With everything leveled to you, the only thing of importance is champion points.

Gorilla

Garwulf wrote: »

The game does not begin for me until level 50.

Fixed that for you.

Cpt_Teemo

I leveled my last 4 during the xp event, thankfully

Gorilla

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

I leveled my last 4 during the xp event, thankfully

Wow, 4. I did 1.5...mind numbingly boring but now I have some more alts. Saved my new NB to level up in Morrowind and the new DLC.

Slick_007

bhagwad wrote: »

Because if something challenges your skill and luck, then it's not a grind. Leveling to 50 does neither!

its challenging enough to you and others that you have to come to the forum and whinge about it.
i dont want to lvl. i should start at cp160
why level those skills. i should instantly be given the morphs

what you want is a game without customization, where you can just login and instantly play. something like call of duty maybe. where they just give you the character and you play it.

newsflash precious people: ESO aint it. and should ZOS ever decide it is, that will be the death of the game. because all those people will arent completely lazy and find levelling a challenge will leave. and then you can spend your time in the dungeon q because nobody will be here to play with you.

i get that you dont like levelling and think you should just be able to play end game content. Thats fine. But you know what, you still gotta do it like everyone else. If thats too hard for you, you know where the uninstall button is. You said that we are asking someone to have the same in-game goals as us. Well, you're doing something worse. You're asking an established game to change the game to suit what you think it should be. Not what the game actually is. Thats not necessarily a bad thing, except you want it to be a different game. One where you dont have to put any time or effort into it to get to the top. That is a very bad thing.

altemriel

bhagwad wrote: »

I thought I'd take advantage of the double XP witches festival to level a new magicka NB. I already have a CP 470 Templar and DK, and I run dungeons exclusively. So I'm not interested in questing, or the storyline. That's simply not why I play.

But my god, the tedium of running Dolmens. I hit lvl 31, before I gave up. Why Dolmens, you ask? Because:

1. Questing is too slow
2. Killing zombies in Alik'r requires others not to mess up your kills
3. Grinding skyreach is I don't know - how many levels will I get if I pay for a skyreach run at lvl 31? Also expensive

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

Suggestions:

1. I don't mind paying crowns for a consumable that brings us up to 50. Make it so that you need to already have some characters at lvl cap before you can use it.

2. Award "books" or "tomes" or some other consumable when doing regular content like dungeons. These account bound tomes can be consumed to raise your character's lvl by 1. This way, we can all do stuff on our regular toons and lvl up alts quickly. (Like GW2).

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning. It's just a grind with no enjoyment, no benefits, no learning. I already have my armor sets waiting to equip my lvl 50 toon. Doesn't even matter that I don't know all the skills. Once I'm at 50, I'll go into my house and practice my rotations on a skeleton to polish everything up.

But until the road to 50 is made less tedious, I'm going to hold off on leveling up my NB.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

right, so you want to start a game, then create a character which is already level 50, LOL, did you ever play a MMO before?

newtinmpls

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Try grinding to vet 16 a half a dozen times.

Lvl 50 is nothing

bhagwad wrote: »

Illogical argument. "It was bad in the past, so now put up with it"? How is that reasonable?

I can see both sides of this. I too leveled to vet 12, then 14, then 16. And (not counting deleted characters) I run two accounts with a total of 21 characters.

I think partly it's the "nature of the beast"' when playing a character based MMOPRG each character is treated as an individual (unlike a player based game - I don't know any online ones so the only examples that come to mind are chess or board games like Axis and Allies - but I'm sure you are smart enough to get the principle).

I think ultimately everyone plays a way "they like" or they wouldn't stay.

If you are looking to magically vanish what you see as a grind. We can't help with that, and it seems (so far) that ZoS chooses not to.

If you are looking for advice to make the process "more tolerable" or "slightly less horrific" then maybe ... maybe some of the suggestions here will help.

If you don't want to try them, no problem.

Maybe they will help someone.

Feanor

Getting to 50 is ridiculously easy. The guild skill lines are where it’s really a grind. Still I don’t think the Crown Store should offer a scroll of ready character. If it’s done in a way that would help (e.g. maxing out all skill lines) it would be extremely frowned upon. The sh*tstorm would be tremendous.

Merlin13KAGL

I'm gonna argue that the average is still gonna be close to 50 hours, no matter how you slice it.

You can get the XP faster, sure, but you still need skillpoints, guild/alliance ranks, etc. Hell, even unlocking the necessary wayshrines takes a certain amount of time.

The insta-50 doesn't much matter, in the grand scheme of things. Until skyshards, lorebooks, and crafting skills (alchemy and provo, at least) become daily/hireling based, there will always be more time involved to actually getting to end-game-character status than just pure XP's.

bhagwad

Slick_007 wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Because if something challenges your skill and luck, then it's not a grind. Leveling to 50 does neither!

its challenging enough to you and others that you have to come to the forum and whinge about it.
i dont want to lvl. i should start at cp160
why level those skills. i should instantly be given the morphs

what you want is a game without customization, where you can just login and instantly play. something like call of duty maybe. where they just give you the character and you play it.

newsflash precious people: ESO aint it. and should ZOS ever decide it is, that will be the death of the game. because all those people will arent completely lazy and find levelling a challenge will leave. and then you can spend your time in the dungeon q because nobody will be here to play with you.

i get that you dont like levelling and think you should just be able to play end game content. Thats fine. But you know what, you still gotta do it like everyone else. If thats too hard for you, you know where the uninstall button is. You said that we are asking someone to have the same in-game goals as us. Well, you're doing something worse. You're asking an established game to change the game to suit what you think it should be. Not what the game actually is. Thats not necessarily a bad thing, except you want it to be a different game. One where you dont have to put any time or effort into it to get to the top. That is a very bad thing.

You use the word "challenging". I use the word "boring". If I were to ask you dig a hole and refill it 300 times, would you say it "challenges" you? Or would you just say it bores you?

Merlin13KAGL

bhagwad wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Because if something challenges your skill and luck, then it's not a grind. Leveling to 50 does neither!

its challenging enough to you and others that you have to come to the forum and whinge about it.
i dont want to lvl. i should start at cp160
why level those skills. i should instantly be given the morphs

what you want is a game without customization, where you can just login and instantly play. something like call of duty maybe. where they just give you the character and you play it.

newsflash precious people: ESO aint it. and should ZOS ever decide it is, that will be the death of the game. because all those people will arent completely lazy and find levelling a challenge will leave. and then you can spend your time in the dungeon q because nobody will be here to play with you.

i get that you dont like levelling and think you should just be able to play end game content. Thats fine. But you know what, you still gotta do it like everyone else. If thats too hard for you, you know where the uninstall button is. You said that we are asking someone to have the same in-game goals as us. Well, you're doing something worse. You're asking an established game to change the game to suit what you think it should be. Not what the game actually is. Thats not necessarily a bad thing, except you want it to be a different game. One where you dont have to put any time or effort into it to get to the top. That is a very bad thing.

You use the word "challenging". I use the word "boring". If I were to ask you dig a hole and refill it 300 times, would you say it "challenges" you? Or would you just say it bores you?

Depends, do you get to use an earthmover or a spoon?

You forgot option C: No one is required to dig the hole at all.

Getting to max level on a different role/class doesn't automatically provide proficiency with that role/class. Part of that 'grind' time is for that purpose, regardless of how many times you've played alts.

People requesting insta-end game will be the same people bitching because they're bored because they are no longer challenged, as there are no more new holes to dig and refill.

Regrind real max level on an alt, CP's and all, with gear that's not so easily tradeable among group members,and you'll have a new found appreciation for the fact that the 'grind' to 50 is as generous as it is.

AlnilamE

bhagwad wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

If what you like is running dungeons, get your character to level 10 by exploring the first zone and grabbing all the skyshards (because you will need skill points), and then start running random dungeons.

I usually use Random dungeons to get a character from 40 to 50. Before then, I usually just take them to guild events.

Since my goal is to just run vet DLC dungeons, grinding dolmens is simply faster to level. Normal dungeons at a low level character are a completely different ball game altogether. Half your skills are missing, you can't do rotations, you don't have the gear to complement your playstyle etc etc.

Grind is just grind...

But you will get skill points that the dolmens won't give you.

At the end of the day, it's your choice how to do it, though. I prefer to take a bit longer and have fun while I'm doing it.

Also, you mentioned GW2, and I'm trying to level an alt by giving them the tomes and writs of experience, as well as making her do the dailies that she can, but man is that a slog...

bhagwad

AlnilamE wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

If what you like is running dungeons, get your character to level 10 by exploring the first zone and grabbing all the skyshards (because you will need skill points), and then start running random dungeons.

I usually use Random dungeons to get a character from 40 to 50. Before then, I usually just take them to guild events.

Since my goal is to just run vet DLC dungeons, grinding dolmens is simply faster to level. Normal dungeons at a low level character are a completely different ball game altogether. Half your skills are missing, you can't do rotations, you don't have the gear to complement your playstyle etc etc.

Grind is just grind...

But you will get skill points that the dolmens won't give you.

At the end of the day, it's your choice how to do it, though. I prefer to take a bit longer and have fun while I'm doing it.

Also, you mentioned GW2, and I'm trying to level an alt by giving them the tomes and writs of experience, as well as making her do the dailies that she can, but man is that a slog...

The thing with GW2, is that if you've played for a long time, you'll be absolutely swimming in tomes of knowledge, which automatically grant you a lvl upon consumption. So when I created an alt, I just had to click a button 80 times and in 2 mins, I had a lvl 80.

The reason I was able to get those tomes is because I've already played the game forever. No one is asking for an instant lvl 50 for a new player. Only for experienced ones who've seen and done it all before.

bhagwad

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Because if something challenges your skill and luck, then it's not a grind. Leveling to 50 does neither!

its challenging enough to you and others that you have to come to the forum and whinge about it.
i dont want to lvl. i should start at cp160
why level those skills. i should instantly be given the morphs

what you want is a game without customization, where you can just login and instantly play. something like call of duty maybe. where they just give you the character and you play it.

newsflash precious people: ESO aint it. and should ZOS ever decide it is, that will be the death of the game. because all those people will arent completely lazy and find levelling a challenge will leave. and then you can spend your time in the dungeon q because nobody will be here to play with you.

i get that you dont like levelling and think you should just be able to play end game content. Thats fine. But you know what, you still gotta do it like everyone else. If thats too hard for you, you know where the uninstall button is. You said that we are asking someone to have the same in-game goals as us. Well, you're doing something worse. You're asking an established game to change the game to suit what you think it should be. Not what the game actually is. Thats not necessarily a bad thing, except you want it to be a different game. One where you dont have to put any time or effort into it to get to the top. That is a very bad thing.

You use the word "challenging". I use the word "boring". If I were to ask you dig a hole and refill it 300 times, would you say it "challenges" you? Or would you just say it bores you?

Depends, do you get to use an earthmover or a spoon?

You forgot option C: No one is required to dig the hole at all.

Getting to max level on a different role/class doesn't automatically provide proficiency with that role/class. Part of that 'grind' time is for that purpose, regardless of how many times you've played alts.

People requesting insta-end game will be the same people bitching because they're bored because they are no longer challenged, as there are no more new holes to dig and refill.

Regrind real max level on an alt, CP's and all, with gear that's not so easily tradeable among group members,and you'll have a new found appreciation for the fact that the 'grind' to 50 is as generous as it is.

So where is the "earthmover" for ESO? Where is the tool that I can use to lvl up a new character in 10 minutes? That's an earthmover. So far, we have only spoons.

Proficiency with the class is acquired by spending a long time in front of the practice dummy, getting your rotations, light weaves, buff timings, potions, weapon enchant procs etc down pat. None of that is obtained by leveling a toon from 1-50. You're missing half the skills, your resource pools don't match the end game, you don't have the gear that will give you desired buffs.

Basically, end game is COMPLETELY different from leveling. There is zero value trade over. Absolutely 0. It has as much value as digging a hole.

And again, saying things were bad before is not a reasonable excuse to keep a bad situation around.

IcyDeadPeople

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Try grinding to vet 16 a half a dozen times.

Lvl 50 is nothing

bhagwad wrote: »

Illogical argument. "It was bad in the past, so now put up with it"? How is that reasonable?

[/quote]

More like it was really bad in the past and it has improved tremendously. Quite fast to level any character to 50 - these days it now takes longer to get the mage books and skill points.

Tonturri

Most efficient way to level:

- Find a grind (or switch between them to mix it up, whatever floats your boat)
- Make a set of training gear. Make it blue quality, or purple if you really want (mats are cheap, but I'm cheap so I do blue)
- Get an exp potion. Use it

Then start doing the grind of your choice. If you really want to be efficient, get a buddy and marry them.

Heck, though, you can probably get a good ways to 50 just collecting all the stuff a lv50 character needs to be efficient (skyshards, doing dungeon quests, etc)

Docmandu

SirAxen wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

It's an RPG, which means that the game starts when you create the character, not when you hit Level 50. It sounds to me like you are looking for something else.

All of my level 50 characters are "done" for me. All they are good for is "maintenance" stuff like daily writs. I might use them for new content, like Morrowind or CWC, but my active characters are all under level 50.

I know that I am far from the norm here, but this is how I play RPG games. Max level means "game over", start again.

I would also add onto this with: If you don't care at all about story or the universe in which you're playing in, then why play ESO as well? At the end of the day, it's an Elder Scrolls Game that is played Online. I couldn't imagine playing this game and having zero interest in the universe/lore I was running around in.

I play this game solely for PvP (Cyrodiil, large scale persistent map).. have zero interest in the story/lore of the game.

Wreuntzylla

After skyreach, running Cyrodiil hub quests are probably the fastest leveling.

Solexe

Parrot1986 wrote: »

I’d rather run maelstrom arena, levels up fighters guild you get plunder skulls and it’s not as boring as skyreach or dolmens.

Either way you can get to 50 in less than 10 hours without even trying.

Just factually incorrect. With actually trying during festival (full training gear and scrolls or pots), my played averaged 8-12 hrs from lvl 3-50. That was with me try harding pretty hard. You can definetly do it quicker but not without a plan, friends willing to run you through skyreach (or knowledge of player hidden grind zones) and serious focus.

Don't spread false rumors. It is definetly very easy and quick to hit 50 in this MMO, but saying you'll get there in ten hours without effort will simply deter new players that are excited for the game but get discouraged from all the experienced players telling them they'll get there in a day easily when theyve been playing for a couple weeks and still are only thirty or so.

TL;DR
Try rephrasing to say you CAN get there easily in ten hours rather than suggesting that you will.

Solexe

bmannb16_ESO wrote: »

I can grind up a magica char in 6-8 hours, with the Halloween event I just did it in 4. And I only ran the first main quest mission, and 1 random daily dungeon.

To be fair I'm at 700+ cp, so that can make a huge difference.

HOW!?!?!? I tried the same. Full training gear, witches festival boon, and xp pot/scrolls. I got a lvl and a half or less per quest in that questline. You're either lieing or experienced a glitch.

Alchemical

I actually have no problem with character boosts, totally unrestricted or anything.

I leveled in another MMO from 1-100 15 times. Manually. By hand. No boosts. When they introduced boosts it was so utterly pointless for me, I'd already had the method down pat. I could do a new toon 1-90 in a weekend. It wasn't a challenge, it wasn't hard. It was just something I did. I played a lot because I was bored, because I was extremely sick at the time and couldn't go anywhere or do anything else.

That's not the case anymore, but I remember the grind, and how methodical it was, and how it meant literally nothing to me any more. Grinding isn't special. Leveling isn't special. It's not something sacred I feel we need to be offended by if people DON'T want to do it, especially if they've already done it before. I know the price of boosts in other games is high because they don't want to 'devalue' leveling experience, but leveling has no value. It's just an obligation. And it's especially redundant in ESO, considering that none of the content is barred from you aside from veteran dungeons and trials.

And don't pretend someone suddenly learns how to play their class from doing overland content, because you can complete 99% of it spamming light attacks. I just got my 4th level 50 ( just five levels off having a 5th) thanks to the Festival. I still have no *** clue what I'm doing half the time.

I_killed_Vivec

Hmmm..

I suppose you buying a fully-fledged toon doesn't really affect me, but I do wonder...

Buy insta level 50... "but my skills are all at 1". So now you'll want to buy skill levels too.

"I bought level 50, I bought my skill levels... but I have no skyshards". So now you will want to buy skill points.

"I bought level 50, I bought my skill levels, I bought my skyshards, but I don't have undaunted, mages guild and fighters guild". So now you want to buy guild skills.

And what about CP? Nobody wants to grind up from 160 CP all the way to the cap... let's buy some CP too then

Then there's horse-riding skills and crafting knowledge, but you can already buy them.

Would it really hurt me if someone bought a complete CP maxed, fully skilled toon ready to go, with gear to match and a bunch of mats in the bank?

I suppose not, but it does seem wrong...

Ojustaboo

bhagwad wrote: »

I thought I'd take advantage of the double XP witches festival to level a new magicka NB. I already have a CP 470 Templar and DK, and I run dungeons exclusively. So I'm not interested in questing, or the storyline. That's simply not why I play.

But my god, the tedium of running Dolmens. I hit lvl 31, before I gave up. Why Dolmens, you ask? Because:

1. Questing is too slow
2. Killing zombies in Alik'r requires others not to mess up your kills
3. Grinding skyreach is I don't know - how many levels will I get if I pay for a skyreach run at lvl 31? Also expensive

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

Suggestions:

1. I don't mind paying crowns for a consumable that brings us up to 50. Make it so that you need to already have some characters at lvl cap before you can use it.

2. Award "books" or "tomes" or some other consumable when doing regular content like dungeons. These account bound tomes can be consumed to raise your character's lvl by 1. This way, we can all do stuff on our regular toons and lvl up alts quickly. (Like GW2).

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning. It's just a grind with no enjoyment, no benefits, no learning. I already have my armor sets waiting to equip my lvl 50 toon. Doesn't even matter that I don't know all the skills. Once I'm at 50, I'll go into my house and practice my rotations on a skeleton to polish everything up.

But until the road to 50 is made less tedious, I'm going to hold off on leveling up my NB.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

In the past I would strongly have disagreed with you, creating alts and leveling them is all part of the fun etc etc etc

However, this game is so incredibly easy to get to level 50, it just becomes a one button click fest of a chore to get all the skyshards to get the skill points etc, it's anything but fun.

I would always have said its madness to have a level 50 character for sale in the crown store, but I've now changed my mind, as it's just a pointless waste of two to three weeks of boredom, grinding a new alt.

I've only ever played a sorc since public beta, a couple of months ago I decided to play a DK. Illness meant I haven't played as much as I liked. I finally got him to level 50 this week, Was a tedious grind, running through dungeons to skyshards, ignoring all mobs with zero consequences in most cases (one shot and they run away) and in those group dungeons that I ran through solo and died, I had so many soul gems it didn't matter.

And what is the result. I haven't a clue how to play him. I would still be like this if I had slowly gone through each quest as I could simply use one skill on most mobs without even trying.

I've read up on DK builds, I've started going through Morrowind for my first time (only recently bought it when I found the discovery upgrade pack for sale for just £17.86) and doesn't matter how I try to learn the skills, the mobs are all dead in seconds.

So at some point I'm going to be one of those guys with 690 CP who gets invited to a group and hasn't a clue how to play.

IF when I rolled my alt, leveling was a fun challenge, it would have been a good experience and I would have enjoyed taking a month or three to get there, plus I would have learned my class on the way. But being able to one button everything, it's just tedious

Zinaroth

bhagwad wrote: »

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning.

Ah the good old "I am not the only one" - for when your argument is so weak that you have to rely on hypothetical others.

Nogawd

Great, let's just promote easier ways for people to get their flavor of the month builds.

Getting to max level should not be easy. In this game it is, period. Complaining about it is extremely silly. You could have knocked out a couple max toons in the time you took to make these posts here.

bhagwad

Zinaroth wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning.

Ah the good old "I am not the only one" - for when your argument is so weak that you have to rely on hypothetical others.

When deciding whether or not to implement a feature, developers obviously look at the demand for it. It's not to make my argument stronger, but merely to say that the demand exists.

Unfadingsilence

I know 3 hours just takes to long for new toons.....

Banana

Id like to be able to clone my main to another slot for a respec. Leveling alts does suck [snip].

[Edited to remove profanity]

Danksta

bhagwad wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

I don't think that the benefits that come with having more characters should just be handed to you. It's easy and quick enough as it is.

What is there to "earn" here exactly? It's not like it's some precious loot where you have the satisfaction of seeing the item you want finally drop. It's just an artificial hurdle.

Might as well say "Dig a hole for 50 hours and you're lvl 50".

Actually, here's another idea. Make leveling to 50 like an item drop. Every time you gain XP, you have a small chance to obtain an item that raises your max level by 1. This will make grinding for XP more fun since there's always the chance that you'll find something that will speed up your progress.

Finally, there's no "proper" way to play the game. Until a developer comes and says "This is our intention, and running vet DLC dungeons 100% of the time is UNINTENDED", I will assume that all ways of playing the game are equally valid.

More characters at level 50 means more characters to do dailies/weeklies/leaderboards with.

Linaleah

Solexe wrote: »

bmannb16_ESO wrote: »

I can grind up a magica char in 6-8 hours, with the Halloween event I just did it in 4. And I only ran the first main quest mission, and 1 random daily dungeon.

To be fair I'm at 700+ cp, so that can make a huge difference.

HOW!?!?!? I tried the same. Full training gear, witches festival boon, and xp pot/scrolls. I got a lvl and a half or less per quest in that questline. You're either lieing or experienced a glitch.

random dungeons. even doing more then one is ridiculously fast, but first random dungeon per day awards insane amounts of xp. they are also very fast to run on normal. for me, I was also leveling on a healer, so queue pops were instantaneous. I think the only reason it took me 6 hours rather then 4, is because I sprinkled a few quests in there for a change of pace. I also did skyreach with couple of guildies (not carry, 3 under 50 characters storming through, so we didn't pull the entire thing at once) and to be honest? I found dungeons to be as fast and a lot more fun. if you are lucky enough to get a new to character dungeon with every pop - you get random dungeon bonus, all the kills bonus AND first time quest turn in bonus + skill point.

the person you are replying to didn't run entire coldharbour quest chain. just the first mission. they ran random daily dungeons to level.

edited - I know it was about 6 hours becasue i used up three 2 hour xp scrolls. there was a few minutes left on the last one, when my alt hit lvl 50