Grinding to 50 is Deterring me from Creating Alts. Why is it There?

Bevik

Maybe they should slow down the leveling instead of speeding it up. Maybe people will be able to play their classes afterall. I see a lot of new players, CP160 and higher chars and has no idea how to play their classes. It is very frustrating for someone like me who loves running group dungeons and see the players don't even know the way with max CP. I've seen a guy didn't know where to go from the 1st room in Wayrest 1... He left the group anyway. But it's ridiculous.

WrathOfInnos

The 1-50 grind is intended to let you unlock skills one by one, while trying them and learning them. Also to get familiar with your character before jumping into endgame content completely unprepared.

PlagueSD

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I would be ok with there being a potion/scroll to make your alts level 50 instantly, but only if you already have a completely leveled character, as the OP said.

NOPE..That's exactly what I DON'T want. All you need to do is roll an OP Sorc, easy grind to 50, then you can instantly make your alts 50? Now you have these max level characters with NO IDEA how to play them.

dodgehopper_ESO

@bhagwad !!!

I have the solution to your problem. Once your character is level 10 go to Cyrodiil - Kyne. Don't leave til you hit 50. You will have pvp'd your way to the top, and you won't even have noticed it. Added bonus: All your Alliance War skills will be maxed. You'll be ready for the world, you'll feel refreshed, rejuvenated and you will have had fun.

Betsararie

Because everything shouldn't just be handed to you.

I have some alts that may NEVER achieve undaunted lvl 10 because it just takes too much time. You won't ever see me complaining.

tizodd

Buying a level 50 character is a slippery slope to p2w. But what I've seen other mmos do is give a bonus for each max level character you have. So each max character you have would add 10-15% to your exp gain. Imo that's a way to reward all your grinding w/o making the game p2w.

Kay1

So it's the 2-4h grind to get to 50 that annoy you.

Not the 5-6h of Undaunted farm in vet or the weeks it takes if you don't have a team to do achievements with, or the 8h to get Mages Guild to 10 in console (2-3h on PC)

Makes a lot of sense to me yeah

Getting skill lines to 50 and morphing the Ultimate is not annoying neither.

Rawkan

Yes, why have leveling at all? Just start everyone out at max level and max CP. Why even play the game? Just give us BiS gear so we don't have to do trials or dungeons for it. Why have dailies when they can just give us the motifs? Why spend months researching traits when they can just remove the research timers?

It's almost like grinding is a core part of MMO's. It's disliked by many, but it's necessary for the longetivity of the game.

lagrue

Bevik wrote: »

Leveling is already way too easy anyway from couple of hours to 1-2 weeks tops if you are doing it very slowly. 1 more week for undaunted and skyshards+lorebooks. That's nothing for an MMO. You have double xp weeks, scrolls everything to help you level up a new toon. I like the feel when I level up a skill and it becomes stronger. Reach the morph. Get the passives. I do feel like it's going damn slow then I realize I only play that char for a week. I'm only playing since April and I only have 1 more char slot and I'm still planning to make more chars. Already bought the 2nd acc anyway. I have not yet completed the main story nor all the zones nor the DLCs. Still not tried a lot of trials not even on normal but already above 600 CP. Leveling is really not an issue here. ZOS should focus on bigger issues like how to teach people the basic mechanics. How to sink the gold out of the game. Fix queue for DDs, fix PvP lags, disconnects. Try to balance the game as much as possible, add more content to PvE and PvPers aswell, new areas maybe classes, skill lines and make all these in a reasonable time. They really do a good job since I play. And you can tell this game is getting better.

A couple hours... come on dude, be atleast a bit realistic - even with full training gear, XP pots and XP scrolls it takes about 8-10 hours UNLESS you're being carried through Skyreach. And that's just for a straight grind to 50.

lagrue

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Every zone has 2-3 zombie hordes. Alik'r is just the most popular one because it's right next to the city. Look around and find an empty one. You can level 1-50 in about 10 hours with regular 50% potions.

Dolmens take like 25 hours. They're horribly inefficient.

Skyreach is the best but might cost you (it takes like 5 hours to do 1-50). You can always ask for free runs in guild chat though. Whenever I have time, I will run someone since I need to clear my enlightenment. A lot of other players do the same thing.

I agree that it's super tedious though, hence why I only have 2 characters (and I only made the second one since warden wasn't available at launch; if it was, I would have only 1).

Mindless grinding is the worst kind of content in video games.

Mmmm no.... Dolmens takes about 8-10 hours....

Cpt_Teemo

Gorilla wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

I leveled my last 4 during the xp event, thankfully

Wow, 4. I did 1.5...mind numbingly boring but now I have some more alts. Saved my new NB to level up in Morrowind and the new DLC.

Yeah was worth it though 4 extra characters to do daily writs on

Slick_007

bhagwad wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning.

Ah the good old "I am not the only one" - for when your argument is so weak that you have to rely on hypothetical others.

When deciding whether or not to implement a feature, developers obviously look at the demand for it. It's not to make my argument stronger, but merely to say that the demand exists.

and yet i'd suggest people who goto the forums and complain they are too lazy to do something and it should simply be handed to them, are the first ones ignored when it comes to what ideas to implement. especially when people didnt even understand the post they replied to such as yourself.

having done some game development, there were 3 ways we implemented changes. And this had oversight.
1. We thought it was cool. ie our idea. new skills, changes to existing skills, cosmetics.
2. Players suggested cool ideas. requests for upgrades/downgrades were ignored here. We did listen to a few players we trusted, especially when they broke out the 'holy crap that was overpowered', but then took that to #3
3. Game data didnt add up the way we thought it would, or should. Numbers were off the intended targets. Yes, game developers can see this information. Much more detailed than you ever could. and they know what was intended and you do not.

Players bitching about how lazy they were, telling us they knew better? well, if you know better, do it yourself.

Azurya

bhagwad wrote: »

I thought I'd take advantage of the double XP witches festival to level a new magicka NB. I already have a CP 470 Templar and DK, and I run dungeons exclusively. So I'm not interested in questing, or the storyline. That's simply not why I play.


For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

I am against it, because it don´t makes sense giving a whiny child what it wants.
If you don´t like it, don´t do it! It´s just as simple.
Or find a way to do it quicker.
I lvl a toon to 50 in less then a week, and I only have a few hours at night to do so.

so please grow up, sit for the screen and make it happen, you can do it, I know it!

Bevik

tizodd wrote: »

Buying a level 50 character is a slippery slope to p2w. But what I've seen other mmos do is give a bonus for each max level character you have. So each max character you have would add 10-15% to your exp gain. Imo that's a way to reward all your grinding w/o making the game p2w.

This is actually a really good idea, the problem is the XP scrolls, pots, ESO+. Noone would buy them after having 5-6 alts. Well some probably would but less people.

Still a good idea tho, could implement that in the subscription bonus but that already has an extra 10%.

The Uninvited

LOL. We used to have to grind to veteran 16. By the time you got to Craglorn you were like 13 or 14 and had to grind the last levels there. 50 is nothing, I can do that in 2 days.

bhagwad

Slick_007 wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning.

Ah the good old "I am not the only one" - for when your argument is so weak that you have to rely on hypothetical others.

When deciding whether or not to implement a feature, developers obviously look at the demand for it. It's not to make my argument stronger, but merely to say that the demand exists.

and yet i'd suggest people who goto the forums and complain they are too lazy to do something and it should simply be handed to them, are the first ones ignored when it comes to what ideas to implement. especially when people didnt even understand the post they replied to such as yourself.

having done some game development, there were 3 ways we implemented changes. And this had oversight.
1. We thought it was cool. ie our idea. new skills, changes to existing skills, cosmetics.
2. Players suggested cool ideas. requests for upgrades/downgrades were ignored here. We did listen to a few players we trusted, especially when they broke out the 'holy crap that was overpowered', but then took that to #3
3. Game data didnt add up the way we thought it would, or should. Numbers were off the intended targets. Yes, game developers can see this information. Much more detailed than you ever could. and they know what was intended and you do not.

Players bitching about how lazy they were, telling us they knew better? well, if you know better, do it yourself.

Not sure what this means. Are you asking me to go join ZOS and change the code myself?

bhagwad

Azurya wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

I thought I'd take advantage of the double XP witches festival to level a new magicka NB. I already have a CP 470 Templar and DK, and I run dungeons exclusively. So I'm not interested in questing, or the storyline. That's simply not why I play.


For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

I am against it, because it don´t makes sense giving a whiny child what it wants.
If you don´t like it, don´t do it! It´s just as simple.
Or find a way to do it quicker.
I lvl a toon to 50 in less then a week, and I only have a few hours at night to do so.

so please grow up, sit for the screen and make it happen, you can do it, I know it!

Translation: You must always suffer through a bad situation instead of trying to change it for the better. Otherwise, you're a "whiny child".

The Uninvited

I had 5 toons on vet 16 when they dropped the veteran system btw.

MercyKilling

bhagwad wrote: »

Translation: You must always suffer through a bad situation instead of trying to change it for the better. Otherwise, you're a "whiny child".

Except not everyone shares your views on what constitutes a "bad situation". If you cannot be bothered to learn how to play via leveling, then perhaps you should go back to Hello Kitty Online.

AlnilamE

bhagwad wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

If what you like is running dungeons, get your character to level 10 by exploring the first zone and grabbing all the skyshards (because you will need skill points), and then start running random dungeons.

I usually use Random dungeons to get a character from 40 to 50. Before then, I usually just take them to guild events.

Since my goal is to just run vet DLC dungeons, grinding dolmens is simply faster to level. Normal dungeons at a low level character are a completely different ball game altogether. Half your skills are missing, you can't do rotations, you don't have the gear to complement your playstyle etc etc.

Grind is just grind...

But you will get skill points that the dolmens won't give you.

At the end of the day, it's your choice how to do it, though. I prefer to take a bit longer and have fun while I'm doing it.

Also, you mentioned GW2, and I'm trying to level an alt by giving them the tomes and writs of experience, as well as making her do the dailies that she can, but man is that a slog...

The thing with GW2, is that if you've played for a long time, you'll be absolutely swimming in tomes of knowledge, which automatically grant you a lvl upon consumption. So when I created an alt, I just had to click a button 80 times and in 2 mins, I had a lvl 80.

The reason I was able to get those tomes is because I've already played the game forever. No one is asking for an instant lvl 50 for a new player. Only for experienced ones who've seen and done it all before.

Well, I most definitely have not played GW2 forever, though I do have a couple of level 80 boosts from buying the expansions. Though they seem like a waste to me, because you still need to run all over the place and get Hero Points to complete your specs so that you can unlock your elite specs.

The same thing could be said for ESO. I mean, if they did give you a level 50 unlock, you would have 64 skill points and that's it.

Would you also want all your skill trees to be maxed out? Or would it be reasonable to expect that you level the ones you are using like you would in normal gameplay (because at level 50 you'll not have earned enough XP to level all your skill lines to 50).

If your skill lines are not maxed and your skills not unlocked because you don't have enough skill points, don't you still have to go out and grind those as well?

If you calculate how many skill points you need for your build, and you set out to get them, you would probably be pretty close to 50 by the time you were done with that.

(and others have mentioned leveling FG, MG and Undaunted as well)

So where would you draw the line at this insta-boost you are proposing?

idk

It looks like the message has been loud and clear.

Leveling an alt to max level is so extreemly easy and especially so since the vet ranks have been removed.

It does seem that when leveling a new character to 50 is an arduous task that maybe that class doesn't suit the player. This make sense because of her e easy and fast it is to level up an alt.

bhagwad

MercyKilling wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Translation: You must always suffer through a bad situation instead of trying to change it for the better. Otherwise, you're a "whiny child".

Except not everyone shares your views on what constitutes a "bad situation". If you cannot be bothered to learn how to play via leveling, then perhaps you should go back to Hello Kitty Online.

Except that I've given my reasons for why I think it's bad. You're more than welcome to argue your point of view logically. Seems to me however, that you have nothing except insults. Remind me why I should engage with you as an adult?

bhagwad

idk wrote: »

It looks like the message has been loud and clear.

Leveling an alt to max level is so extreemly easy and especially so since the vet ranks have been removed.

It does seem that when leveling a new character to 50 is an arduous task that maybe that class doesn't suit the player. This make sense because of her e easy and fast it is to level up an alt.

I think a lot of people here are biased because they remember how bad things used to be. This is clouding their judgment about the actual situation at this point in time. For them, 10 hours of leveling is nothing because they used to spend 100 hours grinding vet ranks.

However, it 10 hours of mindless grinding is still 10 hours of mindless grinding. I say it's a problem. The fact that it's a lesser problem than before has no bearing on its status right now.

And just in case anyone needed reminding, this is for an alt character when you already have multiple max toons. You've seen and done it all before. Now you just need to hit 50 so you can start using the gear that you've already farmed, and go wail on a skeleton to get your rotations right.

Linaleah

bhagwad wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It looks like the message has been loud and clear.

Leveling an alt to max level is so extreemly easy and especially so since the vet ranks have been removed.

It does seem that when leveling a new character to 50 is an arduous task that maybe that class doesn't suit the player. This make sense because of her e easy and fast it is to level up an alt.

I think a lot of people here are biased because they remember how bad things used to be. This is clouding their judgment about the actual situation at this point in time. For them, 10 hours of leveling is nothing because they used to spend 100 hours grinding vet ranks.

However, it 10 hours of mindless grinding is still 10 hours of mindless grinding. I say it's a problem. The fact that it's a lesser problem than before has no bearing on its status right now.

And just in case anyone needed reminding, this is for an alt character when you already have multiple max toons. You've seen and done it all before. Now you just need to hit 50 so you can start using the gear that you've already farmed, and go wail on a skeleton to get your rotations right.

I actualy didn't come back to the game until one tamriel, and I originally left before my free month was up. yes it was bad, but the thing is.. as others have pointed out, considering all the other MUCH lengthier grinds you have to do to get your character abilities they need? skill points, mage guild, undaunted etc, the mere leveling to 50 just seems like such an odd hill to die on when its something you just do while getting all those other necessary things. even with GW2, just having a character at lvl 80 means absolutely nothing. and in WoW, the other game you brought up, you dont get a max level - you get a character that is ready to go into a current expansion, but you still need to level and gear them and get through the class hall campaign, etc etc. and unlike CP, artifact power is per character. talk about alt unfriendly...

AlnilamE

bhagwad wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It looks like the message has been loud and clear.

Leveling an alt to max level is so extreemly easy and especially so since the vet ranks have been removed.

It does seem that when leveling a new character to 50 is an arduous task that maybe that class doesn't suit the player. This make sense because of her e easy and fast it is to level up an alt.

I think a lot of people here are biased because they remember how bad things used to be. This is clouding their judgment about the actual situation at this point in time. For them, 10 hours of leveling is nothing because they used to spend 100 hours grinding vet ranks.

However, it 10 hours of mindless grinding is still 10 hours of mindless grinding. I say it's a problem. The fact that it's a lesser problem than before has no bearing on its status right now.

And just in case anyone needed reminding, this is for an alt character when you already have multiple max toons. You've seen and done it all before. Now you just need to hit 50 so you can start using the gear that you've already farmed, and go wail on a skeleton to get your rotations right.

Again, think about what you are asking for.

Are you asking for straight level 50 with 64 skill points and all skill lines at level 1?

Are you asking for skill lines to be leveled? If so, all of them or just some of them?

Are you asking for all the skill points from quests you've already done on a different character? What about skyshards you've already found?

Alliance ranks?

What I'm trying to say is that getting a level 50 character is not going to solve your problem and put you in front of your dummy to practice rotations if it doesn't come with skill points and skill lines unlocked.

And if you are going to go out and get all those skill points and skill lines (including Alliance Ranks if you need Caltrops and Vigor or Purge), then you will get to level 50 doing that anyway.

helediron

I have about 40 veterans. Usually i spend 30 hours (or faster with xp buffs) per character to get them to 50 with 120 skill points and at least one guild close to max. I don't grind. Instead i cherry pick skill point quests, WBs and do once each dolmen and public dungeon. This can be done solo or in group and is never boring. What's the problem?

bloodthirstyvampire

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

go back to your cave troll

He has a cave troll?

Rawkan

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Fingolfinn01 wrote: »

go back to your cave troll

He has a cave troll?

Better put on the mithrill vest.

Nogawd

I would love to see this user in Cyro.

Yeah, I suggest leveling that way.

ElderScrollsFan137

I would rather grind to level 50, then reach max level CP automatically. But that's probably because I haven't found a more effective way of grinding yet.