Grinding to 50 is Deterring me from Creating Alts. Why is it There?

AlnilamE

If what you like is running dungeons, get your character to level 10 by exploring the first zone and grabbing all the skyshards (because you will need skill points), and then start running random dungeons.

I usually use Random dungeons to get a character from 40 to 50. Before then, I usually just take them to guild events.

bhagwad

Rouven wrote: »

I think the PvP crown would like to have a word with you on "grind" re content that does not improve their skills for their preferred mode of play.


Not sure if this was mentioned already, but since it sounds like you only want to try it out why not create a character on the test server?

And I completely agree that PvP players should not have to mindlessly grind out 1-50. It makes zero sense. What is the value? What is the goal? Where is the fun?

I'm frankly astounded that there aren't more demands for instant leveling like this. The capacity of humans to endure with bad circumstances is quite limitless apparently.

bhagwad

AlnilamE wrote: »

If what you like is running dungeons, get your character to level 10 by exploring the first zone and grabbing all the skyshards (because you will need skill points), and then start running random dungeons.

I usually use Random dungeons to get a character from 40 to 50. Before then, I usually just take them to guild events.

Since my goal is to just run vet DLC dungeons, grinding dolmens is simply faster to level. Normal dungeons at a low level character are a completely different ball game altogether. Half your skills are missing, you can't do rotations, you don't have the gear to complement your playstyle etc etc.

Grind is just grind...

DMuehlhausen

bhagwad wrote: »

I thought I'd take advantage of the double XP witches festival to level a new magicka NB. I already have a CP 470 Templar and DK, and I run dungeons exclusively. So I'm not interested in questing, or the storyline. That's simply not why I play.

But my god, the tedium of running Dolmens. I hit lvl 31, before I gave up. Why Dolmens, you ask? Because:

1. Questing is too slow
2. Killing zombies in Alik'r requires others not to mess up your kills
3. Grinding skyreach is I don't know - how many levels will I get if I pay for a skyreach run at lvl 31? Also expensive

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

Suggestions:

1. I don't mind paying crowns for a consumable that brings us up to 50. Make it so that you need to already have some characters at lvl cap before you can use it.

2. Award "books" or "tomes" or some other consumable when doing regular content like dungeons. These account bound tomes can be consumed to raise your character's lvl by 1. This way, we can all do stuff on our regular toons and lvl up alts quickly. (Like GW2).

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning. It's just a grind with no enjoyment, no benefits, no learning. I already have my armor sets waiting to equip my lvl 50 toon. Doesn't even matter that I don't know all the skills. Once I'm at 50, I'll go into my house and practice my rotations on a skeleton to polish everything up.

But until the road to 50 is made less tedious, I'm going to hold off on leveling up my NB.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

Well by your logic...from the time I log in I should be max level. Given all the Trial gear in perfect rolls and all the collectibles and achievements.

They are trying to tell a story. So instead of worry about how long it takes per kill and your per second xp you are earning read the quests, choose different answers look at the world that the people at ZoS took years to make. Stop whining and feeling like you are entitled to the point where you should just be the best with no work.

Take it to professional life. Nobody is hired by a company and just immediately installed at the top. The only way that is possible is if you start your own company. Even though for the first few years (normally) you are working 80+ hours a week just to stay a float and not turning a profit. The way you want people could just be I want to start a business and boom are given the profits of Amazon.

I've also never seen the point of having more than 1 character of each class. The people that complain about this normally have 1 of each build, each sex, from each faction if you could have that many. Well of course you are going to get bored to a point. nobody needs to see the game that many times.

CavalryPK

Getting to lvl 50 is EZ... getting undaunted and mages guild is the real problem.

Biro123

bhagwad wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

I will assume that all ways of playing the game are equally valid.

Correct ... and equally valid is the concept that no one forces grinding on any player.

Only the player, who thinks they have to grind to get to level 50, forces that upon themself.

If playing vet dungeons is a valid way of play, then leveling from 1-50 becomes an automatic grind since nothing in the process of leveling from 1-50 has any connection to how you play while in a vet dungeon.

Does 1-50 give gear you can use in vet dungeons? No.
Does it give you CP? No.
Does it improve the skills you use in vet dungeons? No. (That's an entirely different skill set)

Therefore, it is a grind.

He's right though.

imo the definition of a grind is repeating content that you do not enjoy to achieve an objective.

The fact that you choose to achieve that objective as quickly as possible at the expense of fun is what makes it a grind in that instance.
If you instead found a way to play that you enjoy which also levelled you up - same results - but not a grind.

The choice is yours.

I'd also add a counter to your specific arguments..:

Does 1-50 give gear you can use in vet dungeons? Is 'grinding' for that gear when you get to 50 not also a grind?

Does it give you CP? Again - how are you getting CP.. if its all that important - are you also 'grinding' it when you get to 50?

Does it improve the skills you use in vet dungeons? perhaps not - perhaps - does it improve your knowledge of the character, its full skillset, and open up options for new and unique builds? yes- if you choose so.

But if your choice of game is to rush to endgame then 'grind out' gear for that cookie-cutter build from youtube, and grind cp's by repeating dungeon after dungeon - then I guess I just don't get it and don't get why anyone aiming for that kind of gameplay would complain about 'grind'.

Are you one of those players that views re-gearing after a patch as a 'grind' too? Oh noes! I'll have to grind more dungeons so I can get the bis gear I need to be able to grind dungeons.. Woe is me! I hate grinding these dungeons and want to get back to grinding dungeons instead...!!!

Yeah, I'm a PVPer - I just don't get this kind of endgame perspective.

IcyDeadPeople

bhagwad wrote: »

But until the road to 50 is made less tedious, I'm going to hold off on leveling up my NB.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

For me it's already incredibly fast and easy compared to how it used to be, which was a daunting grind. It took me 6 months to level up to veteran ranks in PVP at launch, and then I still had to go grind up to V10 or V12 in Craglorn.

Now even without witches festival it only takes a week or two playing normally, PVP or quests. Grinding takes just a few hours.

Would be nice if lowbie Battlegrounds awarded more XP, though - might incentivize at least 12 people to join so we can actually start a match.

Certainly not against your idea, however, if some want to level up to 50 via crown store I wouldn't view this as pay to win scenario.

bhagwad

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

I thought I'd take advantage of the double XP witches festival to level a new magicka NB. I already have a CP 470 Templar and DK, and I run dungeons exclusively. So I'm not interested in questing, or the storyline. That's simply not why I play.

But my god, the tedium of running Dolmens. I hit lvl 31, before I gave up. Why Dolmens, you ask? Because:

1. Questing is too slow
2. Killing zombies in Alik'r requires others not to mess up your kills
3. Grinding skyreach is I don't know - how many levels will I get if I pay for a skyreach run at lvl 31? Also expensive

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

Suggestions:

1. I don't mind paying crowns for a consumable that brings us up to 50. Make it so that you need to already have some characters at lvl cap before you can use it.

2. Award "books" or "tomes" or some other consumable when doing regular content like dungeons. These account bound tomes can be consumed to raise your character's lvl by 1. This way, we can all do stuff on our regular toons and lvl up alts quickly. (Like GW2).

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning. It's just a grind with no enjoyment, no benefits, no learning. I already have my armor sets waiting to equip my lvl 50 toon. Doesn't even matter that I don't know all the skills. Once I'm at 50, I'll go into my house and practice my rotations on a skeleton to polish everything up.

But until the road to 50 is made less tedious, I'm going to hold off on leveling up my NB.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

Well by your logic...from the time I log in I should be max level. Given all the Trial gear in perfect rolls and all the collectibles and achievements.

They are trying to tell a story. So instead of worry about how long it takes per kill and your per second xp you are earning read the quests, choose different answers look at the world that the people at ZoS took years to make. Stop whining and feeling like you are entitled to the point where you should just be the best with no work.

Take it to professional life. Nobody is hired by a company and just immediately installed at the top. The only way that is possible is if you start your own company. Even though for the first few years (normally) you are working 80+ hours a week just to stay a float and not turning a profit. The way you want people could just be I want to start a business and boom are given the profits of Amazon.

I've also never seen the point of having more than 1 character of each class. The people that complain about this normally have 1 of each build, each sex, from each faction if you could have that many. Well of course you are going to get bored to a point. nobody needs to see the game that many times.

You're asking someone to have the same "in-game" goals as you. You like stories? Great! I don't. My style of play is as valid as yours unless ZOS themselves come out and say that it's invalid.

No one is asking for trial gear. Because to get trial gear, you have to complete challenges. Getting to lvl 50 is not a challenge. It's a bore. A grind.

Comparing getting to the top in a company to grinding to 50 is a joke. Has anyone become the CEO of a company by digging a hole deeper and deeper? No - because becoming the CEO is a challenge, and not everyone can do it. Grinding to 50 it not a challenge.

It's not about the raw, boring effort, but the challenge. There is no challenge in grinding to 50.

And stop trying to claim that "your way of playing" is better than everyone else's. You do your stories. I'll do my dungeons. We can both be happy.

bhagwad

Biro123 wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

I will assume that all ways of playing the game are equally valid.

Correct ... and equally valid is the concept that no one forces grinding on any player.

Only the player, who thinks they have to grind to get to level 50, forces that upon themself.

If playing vet dungeons is a valid way of play, then leveling from 1-50 becomes an automatic grind since nothing in the process of leveling from 1-50 has any connection to how you play while in a vet dungeon.

Does 1-50 give gear you can use in vet dungeons? No.
Does it give you CP? No.
Does it improve the skills you use in vet dungeons? No. (That's an entirely different skill set)

Therefore, it is a grind.

He's right though.

imo the definition of a grind is repeating content that you do not enjoy to achieve an objective.

The fact that you choose to achieve that objective as quickly as possible at the expense of fun is what makes it a grind in that instance.
If you instead found a way to play that you enjoy which also levelled you up - same results - but not a grind.

The choice is yours.

I'd also add a counter to your specific arguments..:

Does 1-50 give gear you can use in vet dungeons? Is 'grinding' for that gear when you get to 50 not also a grind?

Does it give you CP? Again - how are you getting CP.. if its all that important - are you also 'grinding' it when you get to 50?

Does it improve the skills you use in vet dungeons? perhaps not - perhaps - does it improve your knowledge of the character, its full skillset, and open up options for new and unique builds? yes- if you choose so.

But if your choice of game is to rush to endgame then 'grind out' gear for that cookie-cutter build from youtube, and grind cp's by repeating dungeon after dungeon - then I guess I just don't get it and don't get why anyone aiming for that kind of gameplay would complain about 'grind'.

Are you one of those players that views re-gearing after a patch as a 'grind' too? Oh noes! I'll have to grind more dungeons so I can get the bis gear I need to be able to grind dungeons.. Woe is me! I hate grinding these dungeons and want to get back to grinding dungeons instead...!!!

Yeah, I'm a PVPer - I just don't get this kind of endgame perspective.

Is 'grinding' for that gear when you get to 50 not also a grind?

No, it's not a grind. It's a challenge since it's not a foregone conclusion. I have to be good enough to complete the dungeon. I have to be lucky enough as well. None of these are a factor when grinding to 50. It's neither a skill challenge, nor is it a matter of luck. Hence a grind.

Again - how are you getting CP.. if its all that important - are you also 'grinding' it when you get to 50?

I do vet dungeons to get CP. Again - a challenge. Not mindless grinding.

But if your choice of game is to rush to endgame then 'grind out' gear for that cookie-cutter build from youtube, and grind cp's by repeating dungeon after dungeon - then I guess I just don't get it and don't get why anyone aiming for that kind of gameplay would complain about 'grind'.


Because if something challenges your skill and luck, then it's not a grind. Leveling to 50 does neither!

Yeah, I'm a PVPer - I just don't get this kind of endgame perspective.

That's ok. It's live and let live. We don't need to understand something to accept it. I'm not gay and don't find guys attractive. That doesn't mean I have a problem with gay people and it doesn't mean I don't want them to get married. Let them do their thing and I'll do mine. I won't question their lifestyle and they don't question mine. We can all be happy.

Biro123

bhagwad wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

I will assume that all ways of playing the game are equally valid.

Correct ... and equally valid is the concept that no one forces grinding on any player.

Only the player, who thinks they have to grind to get to level 50, forces that upon themself.

If playing vet dungeons is a valid way of play, then leveling from 1-50 becomes an automatic grind since nothing in the process of leveling from 1-50 has any connection to how you play while in a vet dungeon.

Does 1-50 give gear you can use in vet dungeons? No.
Does it give you CP? No.
Does it improve the skills you use in vet dungeons? No. (That's an entirely different skill set)

Therefore, it is a grind.

He's right though.

imo the definition of a grind is repeating content that you do not enjoy to achieve an objective.

The fact that you choose to achieve that objective as quickly as possible at the expense of fun is what makes it a grind in that instance.
If you instead found a way to play that you enjoy which also levelled you up - same results - but not a grind.

The choice is yours.

I'd also add a counter to your specific arguments..:

Does 1-50 give gear you can use in vet dungeons? Is 'grinding' for that gear when you get to 50 not also a grind?

Does it give you CP? Again - how are you getting CP.. if its all that important - are you also 'grinding' it when you get to 50?

Does it improve the skills you use in vet dungeons? perhaps not - perhaps - does it improve your knowledge of the character, its full skillset, and open up options for new and unique builds? yes- if you choose so.

But if your choice of game is to rush to endgame then 'grind out' gear for that cookie-cutter build from youtube, and grind cp's by repeating dungeon after dungeon - then I guess I just don't get it and don't get why anyone aiming for that kind of gameplay would complain about 'grind'.

Are you one of those players that views re-gearing after a patch as a 'grind' too? Oh noes! I'll have to grind more dungeons so I can get the bis gear I need to be able to grind dungeons.. Woe is me! I hate grinding these dungeons and want to get back to grinding dungeons instead...!!!

Yeah, I'm a PVPer - I just don't get this kind of endgame perspective.

Is 'grinding' for that gear when you get to 50 not also a grind?

No, it's not a grind. It's a challenge since it's not a foregone conclusion. I have to be good enough to complete the dungeon. I have to be lucky enough as well. None of these are a factor when grinding to 50. It's neither a skill challenge, nor is it a matter of luck. Hence a grind.

Again - how are you getting CP.. if its all that important - are you also 'grinding' it when you get to 50?

I do vet dungeons to get CP. Again - a challenge. Not mindless grinding.

But if your choice of game is to rush to endgame then 'grind out' gear for that cookie-cutter build from youtube, and grind cp's by repeating dungeon after dungeon - then I guess I just don't get it and don't get why anyone aiming for that kind of gameplay would complain about 'grind'.


Because if something challenges your skill and luck, then it's not a grind. Leveling to 50 does neither!

Yeah, I'm a PVPer - I just don't get this kind of endgame perspective.

That's ok. It's live and let live. We don't need to understand something to accept it. I'm not gay and don't find guys attractive. That doesn't mean I have a problem with gay people and it doesn't mean I don't want them to get married. Let them do their thing and I'll do mine. I won't question their lifestyle and they don't question mine. We can all be happy.

Ah, gotcha. You see vet dungeons as challenging. Won't take long, though, I guess, till they're a walk in the park for you, then I have a sneaking suspicion that you may change your view.

DMuehlhausen

bhagwad wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

I thought I'd take advantage of the double XP witches festival to level a new magicka NB. I already have a CP 470 Templar and DK, and I run dungeons exclusively. So I'm not interested in questing, or the storyline. That's simply not why I play.

But my god, the tedium of running Dolmens. I hit lvl 31, before I gave up. Why Dolmens, you ask? Because:

1. Questing is too slow
2. Killing zombies in Alik'r requires others not to mess up your kills
3. Grinding skyreach is I don't know - how many levels will I get if I pay for a skyreach run at lvl 31? Also expensive

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

Suggestions:

1. I don't mind paying crowns for a consumable that brings us up to 50. Make it so that you need to already have some characters at lvl cap before you can use it.

2. Award "books" or "tomes" or some other consumable when doing regular content like dungeons. These account bound tomes can be consumed to raise your character's lvl by 1. This way, we can all do stuff on our regular toons and lvl up alts quickly. (Like GW2).

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning. It's just a grind with no enjoyment, no benefits, no learning. I already have my armor sets waiting to equip my lvl 50 toon. Doesn't even matter that I don't know all the skills. Once I'm at 50, I'll go into my house and practice my rotations on a skeleton to polish everything up.

But until the road to 50 is made less tedious, I'm going to hold off on leveling up my NB.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

Well by your logic...from the time I log in I should be max level. Given all the Trial gear in perfect rolls and all the collectibles and achievements.

They are trying to tell a story. So instead of worry about how long it takes per kill and your per second xp you are earning read the quests, choose different answers look at the world that the people at ZoS took years to make. Stop whining and feeling like you are entitled to the point where you should just be the best with no work.

Take it to professional life. Nobody is hired by a company and just immediately installed at the top. The only way that is possible is if you start your own company. Even though for the first few years (normally) you are working 80+ hours a week just to stay a float and not turning a profit. The way you want people could just be I want to start a business and boom are given the profits of Amazon.

I've also never seen the point of having more than 1 character of each class. The people that complain about this normally have 1 of each build, each sex, from each faction if you could have that many. Well of course you are going to get bored to a point. nobody needs to see the game that many times.

You're asking someone to have the same "in-game" goals as you. You like stories? Great! I don't. My style of play is as valid as yours unless ZOS themselves come out and say that it's invalid.

No one is asking for trial gear. Because to get trial gear, you have to complete challenges. Getting to lvl 50 is not a challenge. It's a bore. A grind.

Comparing getting to the top in a company to grinding to 50 is a joke. Has anyone become the CEO of a company by digging a hole deeper and deeper? No - because becoming the CEO is a challenge, and not everyone can do it. Grinding to 50 it not a challenge.

It's not about the raw, boring effort, but the challenge. There is no challenge in grinding to 50.

And stop trying to claim that "your way of playing" is better than everyone else's. You do your stories. I'll do my dungeons. We can both be happy.

I by no way was comparing play styles. I agree that it's a grind, MMOs are a grind. It's there for new players mostly. My point was you know it's there, it's never really going to go away. Stop complaining about it being there. I wouldn't be surprised if he already has multiples of every class so why go through it again and don't say bank space or inventory cause unless you are collecting every single set in all weights and traits you should have more than enough spots specially if you have ESO+ and the crafting material bag.

I mean I guess they could just say oh you have a max level character, here you go level 50!. now do they get all the skyshard, books, achievements (yes I believe most achievements should be account wide) or is just the level 50 they get?

Defilted

Public dungeon in Vardenfell is a great place to level and it is free and requires no questing. The one on the north side. Go all the way to the bottom level and just keep running that circle. endless mobs

SoLooney

as much as i hate grinding a new toon to 50, its a necessary thing not only to get used to your character but to earn skill points and level up skills. have fun leveling skill lines and skills when you are automatically lvl 50, grind gonna feel much worse

Magdalina

bhagwad wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

It's an RPG, which means that the game starts when you create the character, not when you hit Level 50. It sounds to me like you are looking for something else.

All of my level 50 characters are "done" for me. All they are good for is "maintenance" stuff like daily writs. I might use them for new content, like Morrowind or CWC, but my active characters are all under level 50.

I know that I am far from the norm here, but this is how I play RPG games. Max level means "game over", start again.

Exactly. Not sure what the OP expects when he hits level 50. A parade ? A reward of 200 virgins?

It's simple. I would smack on my max level gear, put on my skill, hit the target dummy, practice my rotations, then go to vet DLC dungeons. That's where I spend all my time.

I can't do that with a sub lvl 50 character.

No you wouldn't. For the sake of an example let's imagine ZOS gave you an "insta level 50" token. Cool, yay...now you go hunt skyshards/do quests for skillpoints, level Fighters', Mages' guilds, Undaunted, weapon skills, class skills(or are those supposed to come with level 50 token? Maxed out skills you have possibly(even if it's an alt but of a different class) never used before doesn't sound overly legit to me), Alliance war(for most roles) etc before you can actually fully aid your team in vet dlc dungeons.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

bhagwad wrote: »

I thought I'd take advantage of the double XP witches festival to level a new magicka NB. I already have a CP 470 Templar and DK, and I run dungeons exclusively. So I'm not interested in questing, or the storyline. That's simply not why I play.

But my god, the tedium of running Dolmens. I hit lvl 31, before I gave up. Why Dolmens, you ask? Because:

1. Questing is too slow
2. Killing zombies in Alik'r requires others not to mess up your kills
3. Grinding skyreach is I don't know - how many levels will I get if I pay for a skyreach run at lvl 31? Also expensive

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

Suggestions:

1. I don't mind paying crowns for a consumable that brings us up to 50. Make it so that you need to already have some characters at lvl cap before you can use it.

2. Award "books" or "tomes" or some other consumable when doing regular content like dungeons. These account bound tomes can be consumed to raise your character's lvl by 1. This way, we can all do stuff on our regular toons and lvl up alts quickly. (Like GW2).

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning. It's just a grind with no enjoyment, no benefits, no learning. I already have my armor sets waiting to equip my lvl 50 toon. Doesn't even matter that I don't know all the skills. Once I'm at 50, I'll go into my house and practice my rotations on a skeleton to polish everything up.

But until the road to 50 is made less tedious, I'm going to hold off on leveling up my NB.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

You can do group dongeon a soon as lv 10

lynog85

The grind right now on this game is one of the easiest on all mmos. Getting 50 now is so so easy compared to the vr16 days. Getting to 50 then was so slow and then you had to grind all your veteran levels. 1mill xp per level. Thank god zos has made it how it currently is.

Psyonico

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

I've also never seen the point of having more than 1 character of each class.

Stamina vs magic builds.

kargen27

bhagwad wrote: »

To all the responses against instantly leveling from 1-50:

1. It's an MMO - that's the way it is!

That's an illogical response. It does not address why something should be there. Only that "It's always been this way".

2. It was much, much worse before with vet levels etc

Again, this is not a logical argument to make someone grind from 1-50. Sure, it might have been worse before. But so what? That has no impact on whether or not the current grind is necessary.

3. You should enjoy questing, developing your character etc.

Everyone plays for different reasons. You like to quest. Great! You like to develop your character. Fantastic! Others like me, like to play in the toughest content, and grinding from 1-50 gives me nothing by itself. It's just a meaningless hurdle - ESPECIALLY when we already have multiple characters at level cap.

4. Grinding allows you to learn your character

I ground my very first magplar from 1-50 the slow way. It did NOT prepare me for my vet dungeon rotations, weaving light attacks, timing buffs, resource management etc. The skills required to output maximum sustained DPS, healing, tanking, have NOTHING to do with the way you play while leveling up questing.

Not to mention that if you dolmen grind your skills, or get a skyreach carry, you won't learn anything anyway!

If I hit lvl 50 instantly, I will THEN learn how to do a proper DPS by repeatedly parsing and perfecting my skills on a target skeleton before I even set foot in a dungeon.

5. You won't have enough skill points if you just reach 50.

Since I've already maxed out crafting on my other two characters, I need just 80 skill points in total to complete my new build. I get 64 by leveling, 2 from stepping into Cyrodill. That means just 14 more points, and I can get those from finishing the dungeon quests. Problem solved.

Is there any OTHER reason anyone can give me to not instantly level from 1-50?

You could easily level while gaining the passives you need for most end game builds. Why start at fifty and not have everything you need to be viable? You are going to need to level mages guild, fighters guild, undaunted, maybe Vampire and Legerdemain for the passives. Knowing that there is simply no reason to start at fifty.

From the game perspective instead of the individual player perspective MMOs survive on content being repeated. That is why we get more than one character and why those characters don't start out all decked out and ready to go.

IcyDeadPeople

Psyonico wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

I've also never seen the point of having more than 1 character of each class.

Stamina vs magic builds.

And some completely different kinds of builds you can try that play quite differently despite both favoring magicka for example, or stamina.

BlazingDynamo

Try grinding to vet 16 a half a dozen times.

Lvl 50 is nothing

bhagwad

Magdalina wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

It's an RPG, which means that the game starts when you create the character, not when you hit Level 50. It sounds to me like you are looking for something else.

All of my level 50 characters are "done" for me. All they are good for is "maintenance" stuff like daily writs. I might use them for new content, like Morrowind or CWC, but my active characters are all under level 50.

I know that I am far from the norm here, but this is how I play RPG games. Max level means "game over", start again.

Exactly. Not sure what the OP expects when he hits level 50. A parade ? A reward of 200 virgins?

It's simple. I would smack on my max level gear, put on my skill, hit the target dummy, practice my rotations, then go to vet DLC dungeons. That's where I spend all my time.

I can't do that with a sub lvl 50 character.

No you wouldn't. For the sake of an example let's imagine ZOS gave you an "insta level 50" token. Cool, yay...now you go hunt skyshards/do quests for skillpoints, level Fighters', Mages' guilds, Undaunted, weapon skills, class skills(or are those supposed to come with level 50 token? Maxed out skills you have possibly(even if it's an alt but of a different class) never used before doesn't sound overly legit to me), Alliance war(for most roles) etc before you can actually fully aid your team in vet dlc dungeons.

Depends on the build. The build I have in mind needs 80 skill points. So with 64 points from lvl 50 + 2 points from Cyrodill, I only need 14 more. But I'll be effective enough to start running vet dungeons and I can finish their quests to get the rest. Yes, undaunted is going to take me a while (only for that passive though), but I can finish it much faster if I'm a powerful character running vet dungeons instead of a weakling who can't pull > 5k dps! Not to mention that I'll be able to practice real rotations for decent DPS.

bhagwad

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Try grinding to vet 16 a half a dozen times.

Lvl 50 is nothing

Illogical argument. "It was bad in the past, so now put up with it"? How is that reasonable?

Katahdin

code65536 wrote: »

LOL! If you thought that grinding to 50 is bad, you should've been here over a year ago.

You see, back then, you had to level a character to 50. And then you hit the vet ranks. And you had to level each character from VR1 to VR16 before they could wear max-level gear and use max-level consumables. And each vet rank cost 850K XP, which wasn't so bad, because each rank used to cost 1 million XP. And even that was a lot faster than the original system where each rank cost more than the previous.

When vet ranks were removed (VR16 gear became CP160 gear, and VR15 potions became CP150 potions), the VR1-16 progression was replaced by the CP10-160 progression. Aside from CP10-160 being something that you did only once per account instead of once per character, the CP10-160 progression was also cheaper, and it benefits from daily CP enlightenment (which VR did not).

Those of us who remember those VR days think that leveling these days is trivially easy. And it's absolutely hilarious to see people complaining about 1-50. You're complaining about having to walk four blocks down the road to buy milk, when leveling used to be like running a Marathon. We just look at this thread and think, "Aww, how quaint."

Also, dolmens? Skywatch carries? LOL. The 1-50 leveling is supposed to be where you learn the class and get a feel for how to play it. You learn nothing when you waste away at a dolmen or pay for a Skywatch carry. Go do normal Maelstrom instead. The XP is fast, the action is fun, and you'll actually learn a thing or two about how to play.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

Getting to 50 is EZPZ now.

kargen27

So let's turn this question around.

What is the advantage of starting at 50 if you are going to have to grind passives anyway?

What reason is there for starting at 50 if end game play is your goal?

Linaleah

the entire time I actualy used to level a character during the event, I maybe ran.. i don't know 3 dolmens? 4? and even then, solely becasue I was on my way to some quest objective and it just happened to activate as i was riding past. aside from a few quests here and there, and a delve or two, about 80% of the leveling I did through... gasp.. running normal dungeons through groupfinder. its actualy as fast if not faster then dolmens and a lot more fun, even with occasionally .. interesting group :P but seriously.

1. you don't need alts.
2. you don't need to rush to get them to 50
3. you don't need to grind content you find boring to get them to 50.

that said. the fact that my character leveled almost exclusively through dungeon running, did a WHOLE lot of first time dungeon quests and random dailies each day and didn't even hit undaunted 4 by the time she got to 50? is a bloody disgrace. Undaunted. needs. a rework. seriously.

Jayman1000

Questing should be more rewarding and interesting, both in terms of XP, loot and distinctively different outcomes depending on your choice. Instead it quickly becomes bland, unrewarding and the same over and over again; it already becomes that on the first playthrough which of course just amplfies the issue when you do it with alts.

Curragraigue

bhagwad wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Try grinding to vet 16 a half a dozen times.

Lvl 50 is nothing

Illogical argument. "It was bad in the past, so now put up with it"? How is that reasonable?

That argument is that grinding VRs was a legitimate grind. Grinding to 50 is not a legitimate grind as it can be done very quickly.

You get an instant max character or even if you grind the same spot you are a weak link in any group. The reason being that you haven't learned your class, you haven't learned how to fight different mob attacks on your class, you haven't gotten enough skill points and you haven't levelled MG, FG, Undaunted and AR. If you can't think of ways to play the game and level that are fun for you seriously how long do you think you will be playing the game if you were given a free max level alt? Why would playing the game be any different with the new alt that wouldn't be the same on a lowbie?

Gorilla

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Kinda agree with OP, overland content is so easy that grinding to 50 vs a consumable that brings you to lvl 50 wouldn't really make a difference since you don't really learn anything about your character doing quests or delves.(I just had a CP 690 sorc in vBC1 pledge hard casting crystal frags over and over... come on)

As for your second suggestion it's something that directly competes with crown store xp scrolls so ZOS probably won't add them.

I disagree -- it's how many of us learned. Turn off the CPs, don't use food, use white gear, etc. Lot's of ways to increase the difficulty and challenge onself.

SFDB

Magdalina wrote: »

O.O

This gotta be a necro from several years ago...that's...that's impossible that someone'd be complaining about leveling new chars NOW, right?

At launch leveling took you literally MONTHS(best case - weeks of grinding, and we didn't really have grinding til much later anyway) and it was character specific...no account wide cp or anything...

*shudder* I still remember grinding vet levels with Alik'r zombies, Rivenspire zombies, Auridon plague victims, just running that loop to get partway up one vet rank on one character...

*shudder* I think I put more tedious effort into getting one character to vet 5 than I did getting the last six characters to level 50.

Gorilla

bhagwad wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

I thought I'd take advantage of the double XP witches festival to level a new magicka NB. I already have a CP 470 Templar and DK, and I run dungeons exclusively. So I'm not interested in questing, or the storyline. That's simply not why I play.

But my god, the tedium of running Dolmens. I hit lvl 31, before I gave up. Why Dolmens, you ask? Because:

1. Questing is too slow
2. Killing zombies in Alik'r requires others not to mess up your kills
3. Grinding skyreach is I don't know - how many levels will I get if I pay for a skyreach run at lvl 31? Also expensive

My question is this - what is the purpose of the grind to 50? The real game for me starts after that anyway. I can understand for a new player, getting to 50 can be an adventure. But not when I already have alts, and I won't be able to do the real content until I hit 50.

Suggestions:

1. I don't mind paying crowns for a consumable that brings us up to 50. Make it so that you need to already have some characters at lvl cap before you can use it.

2. Award "books" or "tomes" or some other consumable when doing regular content like dungeons. These account bound tomes can be consumed to raise your character's lvl by 1. This way, we can all do stuff on our regular toons and lvl up alts quickly. (Like GW2).

Because to players like me (and I bet there are lots and lots of us), getting to 50 is just a hurdle with no meaning. It's just a grind with no enjoyment, no benefits, no learning. I already have my armor sets waiting to equip my lvl 50 toon. Doesn't even matter that I don't know all the skills. Once I'm at 50, I'll go into my house and practice my rotations on a skeleton to polish everything up.

But until the road to 50 is made less tedious, I'm going to hold off on leveling up my NB.

For anyone against this idea, could you tell me what benefit the grind to 50 on a new character brings to a player like me?

Well by your logic...from the time I log in I should be max level. Given all the Trial gear in perfect rolls and all the collectibles and achievements.

They are trying to tell a story. So instead of worry about how long it takes per kill and your per second xp you are earning read the quests, choose different answers look at the world that the people at ZoS took years to make. Stop whining and feeling like you are entitled to the point where you should just be the best with no work.

Take it to professional life. Nobody is hired by a company and just immediately installed at the top. The only way that is possible is if you start your own company. Even though for the first few years (normally) you are working 80+ hours a week just to stay a float and not turning a profit. The way you want people could just be I want to start a business and boom are given the profits of Amazon.

I've also never seen the point of having more than 1 character of each class. The people that complain about this normally have 1 of each build, each sex, from each faction if you could have that many. Well of course you are going to get bored to a point. nobody needs to see the game that many times.

You're asking someone to have the same "in-game" goals as you. You like stories? Great! I don't. My style of play is as valid as yours unless ZOS themselves come out and say that it's invalid.

No one is asking for trial gear. Because to get trial gear, you have to complete challenges. Getting to lvl 50 is not a challenge. It's a bore. A grind.

Comparing getting to the top in a company to grinding to 50 is a joke. Has anyone become the CEO of a company by digging a hole deeper and deeper? No - because becoming the CEO is a challenge, and not everyone can do it. Grinding to 50 it not a challenge.

It's not about the raw, boring effort, but the challenge. There is no challenge in grinding to 50.

And stop trying to claim that "your way of playing" is better than everyone else's. You do your stories. I'll do my dungeons. We can both be happy.

I don't think any of us in this thread represent the average gamer on ESO. My son plays this game with many others and they take months to go up ten levels. And they have great fun.

So as far as validity goes, yeah sure every one can do there own thing but box sales are dominated by casuals. We can tell that just from the trophy award percentages.

Anyways, i hope you get your feature. It will cost you 5,000 crowns.