Shor PC/NA "Official" Discussion

NBrookus

Datthaw wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

We need to faction stack so that pug zergs can learn to fight outnumbered. Everything can be small group depending on scale.

Idk if pugs in a zerg really want to learn to fight. They are just searching for AP and try to get some last hits. When I first started playing pvp I realized quickly that I need to run solo alot. Playing solo let's you really understand whereyour build and skill levelis at (unfortunately I still suck). I see these people running in zeros like lemmings and don't think they have the same will to get better.

Based on the sheer number of "but I just wanna get caltrops, why won't a pvp guild pick me up?" in zone, I'd totally agree. These guys are sure happy to have Ruin, because there's been no zerg or largish guild group to surf like DC or EP has.

Some of the guys trying pvp just for skills will stay, but most of them want to get their AP and get out of Cyrodiil.

A_G_G_R_O

A shame too really, Cyrodiil is the true endgame, albeit I refused to believe that when I first started. Use to pve, once you beat all the raids then what, beat the same AI faster for... the same rewards? It’s not like trials get released at a fast enough pace for that scene. People want PvP, PvP is whats poppin in the gaming community, its what is selling and getting the views for entertainment and free advertisers. So many ESO players got into the game from watching streamers do pvp. Besides hunting humans is the most dangerous game.

Rickter

At launch, I remember hearing from @IcyDeadPeople (the short amount of time he was in Requiem) that once he experienced PvP, he realized and concluded that it was THE game, the true end game.

I admit i was skeptical, and i stuck with PvE as a main focus until IC DLC. Even after IC we still had two dedicated raid nights but it wasnt until we were being that pve guild trying to farm tel var on a dead campaign that we ran into ol @Lord_Hev

And the rest is history. I got emperor, it launched a huge interest in pvp for Requiem, we formed a dedicated PvP team that dueled during Legend's hayday, and GvG with some of the best - then we had a fall out. most of the dedicated pvpers left the guild (and the game after another 7 months LOL) and I rebuilt my core over this last year and here we are. consistent 8-16 mans without a single advertisement in zone, reddit, internet - all through word of mouth in the entire year of 2017 (which is almost over holy [snip]).

No we arent an elite top end PvP guild. I dont tell people what to wear, what to run, I just call targets, direct movement, coordinate ultis, and tell people to wear their tabards lol. Thats it. So when you steam roll Requiem or Requiem steam rolls you, just keep in mind we're just there for fun. We are casual by nature and thats why my crew is strictly instructed not to teabag, hate whisper, gate camp, or play dirty. We dont want your beef. We just want to pvp.

W0lf_z13

awesome @Rickter ... i remember my first PvP experience ... it was about 2 years ago ... i had only 1 toon and was only lvl 20 ... i heard stories from one of the guys i used to work with here at my full time job of how awesome of a sight Cyrodiil was ... there being "tidal waves" of players in battles ... so one day i was like hey lets give this a try... i didnt realize there was a non vet campaign so i jumped right into azura .... was still new to the game, my friend that i played with and i were both nightblades so i had no idea of what any other skills other than nightblade looked like ...

so here i am in azura running solo ( my friend wasnt online ) so i mount up and ride around ... get to one of the bridges and carefully look around ... coast was clear so started heading up it ... at that moment i met that "tidal wave" of players .... so i turn around and run my [snip] off all the while being chased by said tidal wave .... getting hit with all kind of skills then bam... 5 meteors ... i was like ... wtf was that?!?!?! ... HATED pvp after that for a while ... it wasnt till about 6 months later that Rak messaged me asking if i wanted to be a part of PUGz of Daggerfall ... learned how to pvp and all that and here i am today lol

[Edited to remove profanity]

PenguinInACan

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Catch em out of the herd put em in the dirt they complain “lol it’s a group build”, then they Zerg you down 10 to 1 and give you bags “Lol why you running scrub get gud”

What about "lol its a 1vX build"? Isn't that a valid excuse when the X is better than the 1? Because it seems like that's what happens when someone gets "zerged" by 10 people.

A_G_G_R_O

I mean, I’d be surprised if a legitimate player would even whisper that as an excuse.

Adenoma

I need clear defined guidelines for conversation regarding "legitimate players," "zerg," and "small group."

A_G_G_R_O

Small group 4, medium group 8, large group 12 (congrats you can do trials when the campaign dies), 16 Zerg.

Legitimate player, anyone with a pulse.

I cant imagine anyone arguing losing a 1vX because they were in 1vX build. Just seems like a nonsensical jab to create a counter point where there was none.

PenguinInACan

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Small group 4, medium group 8, large group 12 (congrats you can do trials when the campaign dies), 16 Zerg.

Legitimate player, anyone with a pulse.

I cant imagine anyone arguing losing a 1vX because they were in 1vX build. Just seems like a nonsensical jab to create a counter point where there was none.

The counterpoint was that maybe 16 people is needed to fight 30, or 40, or maybe even 50, and maybe those 16 people don't have any single target dps skills, because maybe its more efficient to fight 30 people with aoe instead of stam single target dps. So maybe the "lol I'm in a group build" actually makes sense. And maybe the term "zerg" is just overused by people that don't like losing to more numbers instead of just accepting they got outplayed.

Just because you don't like a playstyle doesn't mean you get to discredit it. I don't like duels, doesn't mean players who are good at it are bad players.

A_G_G_R_O

PenguinInACan wrote: »

And maybe the term "zerg" is just overused by people that don't like losing to more numbers instead of just accepting they got outplayed.

TIL losing to more numbers means getting outplayed. I have lost faith in this community.

PenguinInACan

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

And maybe the term "zerg" is just overused by people that don't like losing to more numbers instead of just accepting they got outplayed.

TIL losing to more numbers means getting outplayed. I have lost faith in this community.

No, losing to more numbers and claiming "it was because they zerged me" MIGHT mean you were outplayed. You can't have an arbitrary term for "more people" and use it every time you lose. Sometimes the "getting outplayed" means you shouldn't have tried to fight the group with more numbers...

technohic

PenguinInACan wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

And maybe the term "zerg" is just overused by people that don't like losing to more numbers instead of just accepting they got outplayed.

TIL losing to more numbers means getting outplayed. I have lost faith in this community.

No, losing to more numbers and claiming "it was because they zerged me" MIGHT mean you were outplayed. You can't have an arbitrary term for "more people" and use it every time you lose. Sometimes the "getting outplayed" means you shouldn't have tried to fight the group with more numbers...

I don’t care if you are a group of all pros that just ran over the worse solo player ever; it will still not mean you outplayed them.

StaticWave

Uhmm 3 well placed dawnbreaker will most likely dropped 6 people to 20% health, then reverse slice spam for the aoe execute. Any competent group will not get wiped by a destro ult bomb.

Of course people are salty losing to more numbers. There’s no fairness in fighting 5+ people by yourself. They weren’t outplayed by a zerg. They got zerged down.

StaticWave

PenguinInACan wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

And maybe the term "zerg" is just overused by people that don't like losing to more numbers instead of just accepting they got outplayed.

TIL losing to more numbers means getting outplayed. I have lost faith in this community.

No, losing to more numbers and claiming "it was because they zerged me" MIGHT mean you were outplayed. You can't have an arbitrary term for "more people" and use it every time you lose. Sometimes the "getting outplayed" means you shouldn't have tried to fight the group with more numbers...

There’s no outplaying 1 person with your group of 15. Nobody is stupid enough to fight a zerg by himself. If you actually soloed, or at least observed, you would notice that soloers or small scalers often run into a zerg, then get chased to death.

PenguinInACan

technohic wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

And maybe the term "zerg" is just overused by people that don't like losing to more numbers instead of just accepting they got outplayed.

TIL losing to more numbers means getting outplayed. I have lost faith in this community.

No, losing to more numbers and claiming "it was because they zerged me" MIGHT mean you were outplayed. You can't have an arbitrary term for "more people" and use it every time you lose. Sometimes the "getting outplayed" means you shouldn't have tried to fight the group with more numbers...

I don’t care if you are a group of all pros that just ran over the worse solo player ever; it will still not mean you outplayed them.

Of course it doesn't. I never said it does. I said sometimes getting beat when you are outnumbered means you were outplayed. Most times it doesn't. But lumping "more numbers" into a playstyle that has no skill makes no sense when the majority of small scale pvp-ers look to fight outnumbered in the first place. Sometimes you pick the wrong fights, that is a scenario that I think means "I got outplayed". When 4 small scale players attack a group of obviously organized 12-14 using every ability/ultimate they have, why is it when the 12-14 respond with the same that they are labeled as a zerg and without skill crutching on numbers, instead of realizing the 4 shouldn't have attacked them to begin with?

PenguinInACan

StaticWave wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

And maybe the term "zerg" is just overused by people that don't like losing to more numbers instead of just accepting they got outplayed.

TIL losing to more numbers means getting outplayed. I have lost faith in this community.

No, losing to more numbers and claiming "it was because they zerged me" MIGHT mean you were outplayed. You can't have an arbitrary term for "more people" and use it every time you lose. Sometimes the "getting outplayed" means you shouldn't have tried to fight the group with more numbers...

There’s no outplaying 1 person with your group of 15. Nobody is stupid enough to fight a zerg by himself. If you actually soloed, or at least observed, you would notice that soloers or small scalers often run into a zerg, then get chased to death.

That is fighting a zerg solo. These zergs go to the same place every night. If you go to Chalman mine solo and complain about being zerged down by EP or DC then I don't know what to tell you. Same thing for the Alessia bridge or the Roe/Nik/Ash corridor.

DeadlyRecluse

I would like more campaign discussion threads turned into playstyle judgement threads, please.

PenguinInACan

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I would like more campaign discussion threads turned into playstyle judgement threads, please.

It's either I talk about it now, or people complain when I bring 15 people into the server on a weekend and scream "zerg ballgroup destro no skill". At least this way I can vent pre-maturely and then just say it was fun and ignore the hate afterwords.

But you're right, this isn't the place for a continuation of the 4 year old "zerg" argument. I'll see you all on the weekend.

Adenoma

@DeadlyRecluse , we've got two going on. It's sweet.

Stridig

Adenoma wrote: »

@DeadlyRecluse , we've got two going on. It's sweet.

I think both of you should fight me tonight. At the same time.

A_G_G_R_O

Can we at least come to the concensus that we need to gate Camp AD, that way the have some keeps to gnaw on when they login to a dead server.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

StaticWave wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

And maybe the term "zerg" is just overused by people that don't like losing to more numbers instead of just accepting they got outplayed.

TIL losing to more numbers means getting outplayed. I have lost faith in this community.

No, losing to more numbers and claiming "it was because they zerged me" MIGHT mean you were outplayed. You can't have an arbitrary term for "more people" and use it every time you lose. Sometimes the "getting outplayed" means you shouldn't have tried to fight the group with more numbers...

There’s no outplaying 1 person with your group of 15. Nobody is stupid enough to fight a zerg by himself. If you actually soloed, or at least observed, you would notice that soloers or small scalers often run into a zerg, then get chased to death.

I fight zergs all the time by myself. I don’t know if I can name guilds or not but the funniest guild I 1vxed is the guild that just flips resources on ad’s home keeps. They were trying to ignore me and ride off to the distance. I took out one of the baby elephants in the back, they all turned around to get the Rez off and defend as well. Long story short they all died trying to Rez. It’s wasnt 15 I don’t think but 9-12 probably.

NBrookus

Hell no. I've spent enough early evening hours taking back AD's tri-keeps.

usmcjdking

StaticWave wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

And maybe the term "zerg" is just overused by people that don't like losing to more numbers instead of just accepting they got outplayed.

TIL losing to more numbers means getting outplayed. I have lost faith in this community.

No, losing to more numbers and claiming "it was because they zerged me" MIGHT mean you were outplayed. You can't have an arbitrary term for "more people" and use it every time you lose. Sometimes the "getting outplayed" means you shouldn't have tried to fight the group with more numbers...

Nobody is stupid enough to fight a zerg by himself.

i am lol

Rickter

I personally dont like to zerg. It might seem that way now, but you have to understand only in the last two weeks have i been running the group sizes i have. in an entire year, two weeks.

seriously.

in any case, Im going to quote what Crown told me when i presented the issue i was dealing with in regards to my guild's recent growth:




So idk guys, i try and tell my group not to push 1 person. Some TRUE 1vXers (who dont complain about getting zerged and accept it like a real hardcore boss - looking at you @OdinForge ) tell me not to change a thing and its refreshing to see 1vXers accept their disadvantages while enjoying their strengths and advantages when they do.

Seriously folks, i understand and agree its not fair or honorable to curb stomp 1 guy with 10+ but at the same token, you put yourself out there and run that risk. Own it. Dont complain.

So its a two way street. you either a 1vXer (with all the disadvantages thereof) or you aint.

OdinForge

Rickter wrote: »

So its a two way street. you either a 1vXer (with all the disadvantages thereof) or you aint.

@Rickter

I think this is an important thing to realize, and many don't (sometimes I don't). If you're intentionally putting yourself in a 1vX situation I think you forfeit the ability to complain about losing 1vX. Killing many players without dying is fun, but if there was no X there would be no fun (for me at least).

When I fought your group in Bruma that one time, after the fight was over you sent me a defensive whisper about being sorry you killed me. I didn't really know how to respond to that because no one has ever sent me an honest tell like that, in truth your team never bagged me or hate whispered me, and I was just fighting you because you were there and having fun and felt no resentment for my eventual loss to your team.

There are times where zerging is very frustrating to me, that are very different from me running into Requiem en route to an objective they need a group for. Situations like Chaos Riders bringing 20 people into IC to farm stones or stealth camp flags to fight 1 person. Or like Kush taking 24 people to flip resources at AD home keeps all night, situations where the amount of people required for the job doesn't make sense, versus forming a group to legitimately play the map in Cyrodiil.

anamenobodyelsehas

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

And maybe the term "zerg" is just overused by people that don't like losing to more numbers instead of just accepting they got outplayed.

TIL losing to more numbers means getting outplayed. I have lost faith in this community.

Look, some people have a simple philosophy: if you kill them, you suck; if they kill you, you suck. Once you accept that, there's nothing to get annoyed about

Raknosh

Rickter wrote: »

No we arent an elite top end PvP guild. I dont tell people what to wear, what to run, I just call targets, direct movement, coordinate ultis, and tell people to wear their tabards lol. Thats it. So when you steam roll Requiem or Requiem steam rolls you, just keep in mind we're just there for fun. We are casual by nature and thats why my crew is strictly instructed not to teabag, hate whisper, gate camp, or play dirty. We dont want your beef. We just want to pvp.

Amen!

Kartalin

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

And maybe the term "zerg" is just overused by people that don't like losing to more numbers instead of just accepting they got outplayed.

TIL losing to more numbers means getting outplayed. I have lost faith in this community.

No, losing to more numbers and claiming "it was because they zerged me" MIGHT mean you were outplayed. You can't have an arbitrary term for "more people" and use it every time you lose. Sometimes the "getting outplayed" means you shouldn't have tried to fight the group with more numbers...

There’s no outplaying 1 person with your group of 15. Nobody is stupid enough to fight a zerg by himself. If you actually soloed, or at least observed, you would notice that soloers or small scalers often run into a zerg, then get chased to death.

I fight zergs all the time by myself. I don’t know if I can name guilds or not but the funniest guild I 1vxed is the guild that just flips resources on ad’s home keeps. They were trying to ignore me and ride off to the distance. I took out one of the baby elephants in the back, they all turned around to get the Rez off and defend as well. Long story short they all died trying to Rez. It’s wasnt 15 I don’t think but 9-12 probably.

Probably Kush if it was Vivec, don’t know if they’ve brought those shenanigans to Shor or not (#Shornanigans). But yeah, completely disregard the concept of no man left behind. Kinda embarrassing really but they get outplayed by smaller groups regularly. We 6v20ed them at one point with our TM “small man”.

jaysins

I honestly think the most frustrating thing about fighting outnumbered is the AOE caps. It very much hurts the smaller group and for no reason other than, from what I can see, being smaller in numbers. If we ulti-bomb your group of sixteen we have to hope that the damage gets distributed in a way that helps us get kills but have no real control over. I think it'd help deter balling up so much and is a good change for PvP as a whole.