Subterranean Assault Overperforming

Waffennacht

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

No combo is stronger than the magblade combo I’ve listed. You probably haven’t fought one using that combo.

That combo? you mean the one where they have to land 4 light attacks first? Yeah its a combo but it's a full CC immunity's worth of attacks to build up to.

Not saying it isn't a strong combo, but its easily countered by an immov pot + block as soon as you see the meteor prompt. And then they are very vulnerable to burst afterwards because they wont be able to resto ult for a while.

If we were to compare that to a warden, youd have to throw a bird in there too, and even with that the warden would be done sooner.

I'm not taking a side here, but if he is who I think he is thogard then he's at least in the same tier of play as you and basing any argument on his lack of skill is illogical.

If anything stam warden needs buffed

I swear to God Lexxy, if you get my Warden nerfed I'm coming for your NB!!!

dude, I literally haven't logged into my NB since I finished my stam warden. The gameplay is so engaging and balanced that I can't imagine playing another class. If anything it needs a buff so I don't have to slot 7 defensive/utility skills and can use more than a 2 skill offensive rotation to kill people. The jump around til I've got a DB up and then 1shot 4 people mechanic is a little too difficult and we need a lower skill floor AND skill ceiling for stamden. Being able to permablock on a guard tank with 4500 weapon damage isn't very strong at all and we need very strong buffs to make stamden competitive finally.

I hate you lmfao.

It's not wardens fault Fury seventh etc exist...

I don't even run those sets!

Thogard

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

No combo is stronger than the magblade combo I’ve listed. You probably haven’t fought one using that combo.

That combo? you mean the one where they have to land 4 light attacks first? Yeah its a combo but it's a full CC immunity's worth of attacks to build up to.

Not saying it isn't a strong combo, but its easily countered by an immov pot + block as soon as you see the meteor prompt. And then they are very vulnerable to burst afterwards because they wont be able to resto ult for a while.

If we were to compare that to a warden, youd have to throw a bird in there too, and even with that the warden would be done sooner.

I'm not taking a side here, but if he is who I think he is thogard then he's at least in the same tier of play as you and basing any argument on his lack of skill is illogical.

If anything stam warden needs buffed

I swear to God Lexxy, if you get my Warden nerfed I'm coming for your NB!!!

dude, I literally haven't logged into my NB since I finished my stam warden. The gameplay is so engaging and balanced that I can't imagine playing another class. If anything it needs a buff so I don't have to slot 7 defensive/utility skills and can use more than a 2 skill offensive rotation to kill people. The jump around til I've got a DB up and then 1shot 4 people mechanic is a little too difficult and we need a lower skill floor AND skill ceiling for stamden. Being able to permablock on a guard tank with 4500 weapon damage isn't very strong at all and we need very strong buffs to make stamden competitive finally.

Well when you put it like that...

Waffennacht

@Lexxypwns just likes getting my goat. He's always knocking me around on the forums

Lexxypwns

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

No combo is stronger than the magblade combo I’ve listed. You probably haven’t fought one using that combo.

That combo? you mean the one where they have to land 4 light attacks first? Yeah its a combo but it's a full CC immunity's worth of attacks to build up to.

Not saying it isn't a strong combo, but its easily countered by an immov pot + block as soon as you see the meteor prompt. And then they are very vulnerable to burst afterwards because they wont be able to resto ult for a while.

If we were to compare that to a warden, youd have to throw a bird in there too, and even with that the warden would be done sooner.

I'm not taking a side here, but if he is who I think he is thogard then he's at least in the same tier of play as you and basing any argument on his lack of skill is illogical.

If anything stam warden needs buffed

I swear to God Lexxy, if you get my Warden nerfed I'm coming for your NB!!!

dude, I literally haven't logged into my NB since I finished my stam warden. The gameplay is so engaging and balanced that I can't imagine playing another class. If anything it needs a buff so I don't have to slot 7 defensive/utility skills and can use more than a 2 skill offensive rotation to kill people. The jump around til I've got a DB up and then 1shot 4 people mechanic is a little too difficult and we need a lower skill floor AND skill ceiling for stamden. Being able to permablock on a guard tank with 4500 weapon damage isn't very strong at all and we need very strong buffs to make stamden competitive finally.

Well when you put it like that...

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Lexxypwns just likes getting my goat. He's always knocking me around on the forums

I'm serious, stamden is balanced guys, stop

Thogard

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

No combo is stronger than the magblade combo I’ve listed. You probably haven’t fought one using that combo.

That combo? you mean the one where they have to land 4 light attacks first? Yeah its a combo but it's a full CC immunity's worth of attacks to build up to.

Not saying it isn't a strong combo, but its easily countered by an immov pot + block as soon as you see the meteor prompt. And then they are very vulnerable to burst afterwards because they wont be able to resto ult for a while.

If we were to compare that to a warden, youd have to throw a bird in there too, and even with that the warden would be done sooner.

I'm not taking a side here, but if he is who I think he is thogard then he's at least in the same tier of play as you and basing any argument on his lack of skill is illogical.

If anything stam warden needs buffed

I swear to God Lexxy, if you get my Warden nerfed I'm coming for your NB!!!

dude, I literally haven't logged into my NB since I finished my stam warden. The gameplay is so engaging and balanced that I can't imagine playing another class. If anything it needs a buff so I don't have to slot 7 defensive/utility skills and can use more than a 2 skill offensive rotation to kill people. The jump around til I've got a DB up and then 1shot 4 people mechanic is a little too difficult and we need a lower skill floor AND skill ceiling for stamden. Being able to permablock on a guard tank with 4500 weapon damage isn't very strong at all and we need very strong buffs to make stamden competitive finally.

Well when you put it like that...

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Lexxypwns just likes getting my goat. He's always knocking me around on the forums

I'm serious, stamden is balanced guys, stop

Erroneous! It clearly won’t be balanced until mine is finished.

Lexxypwns

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

No combo is stronger than the magblade combo I’ve listed. You probably haven’t fought one using that combo.

That combo? you mean the one where they have to land 4 light attacks first? Yeah its a combo but it's a full CC immunity's worth of attacks to build up to.

Not saying it isn't a strong combo, but its easily countered by an immov pot + block as soon as you see the meteor prompt. And then they are very vulnerable to burst afterwards because they wont be able to resto ult for a while.

If we were to compare that to a warden, youd have to throw a bird in there too, and even with that the warden would be done sooner.

I'm not taking a side here, but if he is who I think he is thogard then he's at least in the same tier of play as you and basing any argument on his lack of skill is illogical.

If anything stam warden needs buffed

I swear to God Lexxy, if you get my Warden nerfed I'm coming for your NB!!!

dude, I literally haven't logged into my NB since I finished my stam warden. The gameplay is so engaging and balanced that I can't imagine playing another class. If anything it needs a buff so I don't have to slot 7 defensive/utility skills and can use more than a 2 skill offensive rotation to kill people. The jump around til I've got a DB up and then 1shot 4 people mechanic is a little too difficult and we need a lower skill floor AND skill ceiling for stamden. Being able to permablock on a guard tank with 4500 weapon damage isn't very strong at all and we need very strong buffs to make stamden competitive finally.

Well when you put it like that...

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Lexxypwns just likes getting my goat. He's always knocking me around on the forums

I'm serious, stamden is balanced guys, stop

Erroneous! It clearly won’t be balanced until mine is finished.

I've leveled 3 characters during the event dude, get on it

Thogard

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

No combo is stronger than the magblade combo I’ve listed. You probably haven’t fought one using that combo.

That combo? you mean the one where they have to land 4 light attacks first? Yeah its a combo but it's a full CC immunity's worth of attacks to build up to.

Not saying it isn't a strong combo, but its easily countered by an immov pot + block as soon as you see the meteor prompt. And then they are very vulnerable to burst afterwards because they wont be able to resto ult for a while.

If we were to compare that to a warden, youd have to throw a bird in there too, and even with that the warden would be done sooner.

I'm not taking a side here, but if he is who I think he is thogard then he's at least in the same tier of play as you and basing any argument on his lack of skill is illogical.

If anything stam warden needs buffed

I swear to God Lexxy, if you get my Warden nerfed I'm coming for your NB!!!

dude, I literally haven't logged into my NB since I finished my stam warden. The gameplay is so engaging and balanced that I can't imagine playing another class. If anything it needs a buff so I don't have to slot 7 defensive/utility skills and can use more than a 2 skill offensive rotation to kill people. The jump around til I've got a DB up and then 1shot 4 people mechanic is a little too difficult and we need a lower skill floor AND skill ceiling for stamden. Being able to permablock on a guard tank with 4500 weapon damage isn't very strong at all and we need very strong buffs to make stamden competitive finally.

Well when you put it like that...

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Lexxypwns just likes getting my goat. He's always knocking me around on the forums

I'm serious, stamden is balanced guys, stop

Erroneous! It clearly won’t be balanced until mine is finished.

I've leveled 3 characters during the event dude, get on it

I’m too busy being miserable playing the ceepeebeegees. I’m boycotting them in protest. And by boycotting I mean playing all the time.

If there’s one thing I hate dealing with more than tanks in ceepeebeegees, it’s hearing that skyreach dude say “aaaAAAahh more guests” .

Lexxypwns

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

No combo is stronger than the magblade combo I’ve listed. You probably haven’t fought one using that combo.

That combo? you mean the one where they have to land 4 light attacks first? Yeah its a combo but it's a full CC immunity's worth of attacks to build up to.

Not saying it isn't a strong combo, but its easily countered by an immov pot + block as soon as you see the meteor prompt. And then they are very vulnerable to burst afterwards because they wont be able to resto ult for a while.

If we were to compare that to a warden, youd have to throw a bird in there too, and even with that the warden would be done sooner.

I'm not taking a side here, but if he is who I think he is thogard then he's at least in the same tier of play as you and basing any argument on his lack of skill is illogical.

If anything stam warden needs buffed

I swear to God Lexxy, if you get my Warden nerfed I'm coming for your NB!!!

dude, I literally haven't logged into my NB since I finished my stam warden. The gameplay is so engaging and balanced that I can't imagine playing another class. If anything it needs a buff so I don't have to slot 7 defensive/utility skills and can use more than a 2 skill offensive rotation to kill people. The jump around til I've got a DB up and then 1shot 4 people mechanic is a little too difficult and we need a lower skill floor AND skill ceiling for stamden. Being able to permablock on a guard tank with 4500 weapon damage isn't very strong at all and we need very strong buffs to make stamden competitive finally.

Well when you put it like that...

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Lexxypwns just likes getting my goat. He's always knocking me around on the forums

I'm serious, stamden is balanced guys, stop

Erroneous! It clearly won’t be balanced until mine is finished.

I've leveled 3 characters during the event dude, get on it

I’m too busy being miserable playing the ceepeebeegees. I’m boycotting them in protest. And by boycotting I mean playing all the time.

If there’s one thing I hate dealing with more than tanks in ceepeebeegees, it’s hearing that skyreach dude say “aaaAAAahh more guests” .

Lol, you can sit at a dolmens with the xp buff and get to 50 and FG10 relatively quickly. I've finished my stamden, made an argonian magden, an argonian mDK, and I'm working on an argonian magplar

lynog85

Waffennacht wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

It's always interesting to see the mental gymnastics people will go through in an effort to keep their class/spec from getting nerfed in an MMO. "I'm largely immune to your damage, while having the capacity to 1-shot you, OMG LRN2PLAY NEWB LOL!!!"

Landing the Magicka Warden Shalks is more difficult than landing the Stamina counterpart, but I'm still able to hit with them most of the time. Mag DKs can completely ruin my ability to deal effective damage, and some players are really good at avoiding them even without rooting or stunning me, but getting caught in my burst combo isn't something that's as easily avoidable as some people make it sound...and it's still much easier to avoid than Stam Warden burst.

One shotting equally leveled/geared opponents in MMO PvP simply shouldn't be a thing. Period. And of course Stam Wardens aren't the only ones capable of doing this nonsense, they're just one of the classes that have it the easiest, while simultaneously being quite survivable.

Some players say, Low TTK and one shotting is the only "skillful" way of winning, you say it shouldn't be possible. A big disconnect amongst players.

Sub Assault is way easier to land because Stam abilities move your character to face the enemy for you.

Thing is, against shield wall, literally Shalk is the ONLY ability that can deal damage from a Warden

Dive may not be reflected but it'll still be reduced by 90%

With everybody running SnB, any Shalk nerf ruins Warden.

Also, SA + Incap + Execute can be just as devastating, has defile and is way cheaper

Sa incap execute isnt AOE. Stamdens are wiping out small groups with their combo. Its so OP its funny.

Thogard

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

No combo is stronger than the magblade combo I’ve listed. You probably haven’t fought one using that combo.

That combo? you mean the one where they have to land 4 light attacks first? Yeah its a combo but it's a full CC immunity's worth of attacks to build up to.

Not saying it isn't a strong combo, but its easily countered by an immov pot + block as soon as you see the meteor prompt. And then they are very vulnerable to burst afterwards because they wont be able to resto ult for a while.

If we were to compare that to a warden, youd have to throw a bird in there too, and even with that the warden would be done sooner.

I'm not taking a side here, but if he is who I think he is thogard then he's at least in the same tier of play as you and basing any argument on his lack of skill is illogical.

If anything stam warden needs buffed

I swear to God Lexxy, if you get my Warden nerfed I'm coming for your NB!!!

dude, I literally haven't logged into my NB since I finished my stam warden. The gameplay is so engaging and balanced that I can't imagine playing another class. If anything it needs a buff so I don't have to slot 7 defensive/utility skills and can use more than a 2 skill offensive rotation to kill people. The jump around til I've got a DB up and then 1shot 4 people mechanic is a little too difficult and we need a lower skill floor AND skill ceiling for stamden. Being able to permablock on a guard tank with 4500 weapon damage isn't very strong at all and we need very strong buffs to make stamden competitive finally.

Well when you put it like that...

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Lexxypwns just likes getting my goat. He's always knocking me around on the forums

I'm serious, stamden is balanced guys, stop

Erroneous! It clearly won’t be balanced until mine is finished.

I've leveled 3 characters during the event dude, get on it

I’m too busy being miserable playing the ceepeebeegees. I’m boycotting them in protest. And by boycotting I mean playing all the time.

If there’s one thing I hate dealing with more than tanks in ceepeebeegees, it’s hearing that skyreach dude say “aaaAAAahh more guests” .

Lol, you can sit at a dolmens with the xp buff and get to 50 and FG10 relatively quickly. I've finished my stamden, made an argonian magden, an argonian mDK, and I'm working on an argonian magplar

ANd let all those bad players run around unkilled? Not on my watch!

But no I’ve been busy at work this week. I’m in finance / sales and one of my coworkers quit on Wednesday and I’ve been trying to retain her client list that defaulted to me, while she’s been trying to bring the clients with her. Kinda like in Jerry magquire when Tom cruise quits, except in this case I’m the bad guy lol.

Waffennacht

lynog85 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

It's always interesting to see the mental gymnastics people will go through in an effort to keep their class/spec from getting nerfed in an MMO. "I'm largely immune to your damage, while having the capacity to 1-shot you, OMG LRN2PLAY NEWB LOL!!!"

Landing the Magicka Warden Shalks is more difficult than landing the Stamina counterpart, but I'm still able to hit with them most of the time. Mag DKs can completely ruin my ability to deal effective damage, and some players are really good at avoiding them even without rooting or stunning me, but getting caught in my burst combo isn't something that's as easily avoidable as some people make it sound...and it's still much easier to avoid than Stam Warden burst.

One shotting equally leveled/geared opponents in MMO PvP simply shouldn't be a thing. Period. And of course Stam Wardens aren't the only ones capable of doing this nonsense, they're just one of the classes that have it the easiest, while simultaneously being quite survivable.

Some players say, Low TTK and one shotting is the only "skillful" way of winning, you say it shouldn't be possible. A big disconnect amongst players.

Sub Assault is way easier to land because Stam abilities move your character to face the enemy for you.

Thing is, against shield wall, literally Shalk is the ONLY ability that can deal damage from a Warden

Dive may not be reflected but it'll still be reduced by 90%

With everybody running SnB, any Shalk nerf ruins Warden.

Also, SA + Incap + Execute can be just as devastating, has defile and is way cheaper

Sa incap execute isnt AOE. Stamdens are wiping out small groups with their combo. Its so OP its funny.

Spread out

Waffennacht

I'm fairly confident you won't see a change any time soon, better start learning to deal

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm fairly confident you won't see a change any time soon, better start learning to deal

SA will get nerfed. It’s either nerf SA or nerf the entire sustain kit consisting of multiple skills, or adjust SA in a way that lowers its burst synergy with dawnbreaker but increases its overall DPS to make the PvE people happy. That’s definitely the path of least resistance.

BroanBeast1215

honestly seems like this thread belongs in the bg subsection because it seems like that's where the OP is encountering such a high number of wardens running this combo, whereas in cyro ive seen exactly one person(kodi)

I do far more smallscale(1vx 2vx etc) than I do BGs but it seems that this burst issue is exacerbated in bgs because their is limited space to maneuver. in open world this combo would be nearly impossible to pull off unless you're fighting potatoes(see kodi's 1vx video for said potatoes.)

Disclaimer: not disagreeing with the OP, stamden is stupidly overpowered lol, jumped into bgs as a lvl 44 before CWC update and nobody short of 3 ppl could kill me.

Thogard

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

honestly seems like this thread belongs in the bg subsection because it seems like that's where the OP is encountering such a high number of wardens running this combo, whereas in cyro ive seen exactly one person(kodi)

I do far more smallscale(1vx 2vx etc) than I do BGs but it seems that this burst issue is exacerbated in bgs because their is limited space to maneuver. in open world this combo would be nearly impossible to pull off unless you're fighting potatoes(see kodi's 1vx video for said potatoes.)

Disclaimer: not disagreeing with the OP, stamden is stupidly overpowered lol, jumped into bgs as a lvl 44 before CWC update and nobody short of 3 ppl could kill me.

I think BGs are a good place to watch balance because it’s an even playing field with fewer variables than cyrodil. That being said, i do agree with you.. wardens don’t have a block dmg passive which means they aren’t as good at mitigating damage as DKs or templars, so I think they’re more vulnerable to being overwhelmed. (Mitigating vs healing) But I don’t think that 1v10 capability should be a huge factor in balance decisions

At twitch con, rich lambert actually mentioned that they watched the compiled data of BG outcomes.. it’s easy for them to track who wins and loses, whether it’s premade or pug, what the classes are, what the damage is, etc. it’s a ton of data that they get compiled from all of the matches on all of the servers and platforms, and that raw data is sometbing they closely monitor when making balance decisions.

techprince

Yes it is.

Waffennacht

@Thogard I was thinking at minimum... 2 months at least till a change...

It's not like it's Balance and @Lexxypwns idea OP

Lexxypwns

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Thogard I was thinking at minimum... 2 months at least till a change...

It's not like it's Balance and @Lexxypwns idea OP

Stamden is balanced. Maybe a little too weak

Waffennacht

What about some how making it where it can't be combined with a gap closer?

I dunno, I want my ability to be playable without 2H, I just have visions of a nerf that make it have to be paired with a closer

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

What about some how making it where it can't be combined with a gap closer?

I dunno, I want my ability to be playable without 2H, I just have visions of a nerf that make it have to be paired with a closer

I would LOVE for it to become a ground target DOT like liquid lightning or cinder storm. Cut the damage in half but make it tic every second so the DPS is up 50%. The PvEers would love that too, and it’d still go through block so wardens would have as many skills that go through block as DKs do.

Or even if it isn’t a dot, just make it so it doesn’t follow the warden like a Destro ult. It should be ground target, not CAOE

Or hell, give it the selene’s and tremorscale treatment so that there’s a window of time where the AOE is set and we can still dodge out of it.

Waffennacht

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

What about some how making it where it can't be combined with a gap closer?

I dunno, I want my ability to be playable without 2H, I just have visions of a nerf that make it have to be paired with a closer

I would LOVE for it to become a ground target DOT like liquid lightning or cinder storm. Cut the damage in half but make it tic every second so the DPS is up 50%. The PvEers would love that too, and it’d still go through block so wardens would have as many skills that go through block as DKs do.

Or even if it isn’t a dot, just make it so it doesn’t follow the warden like a Destro ult. It should be ground target, not CAOE

Or hell, give it the selene’s and tremorscale treatment so that there’s a window of time where the AOE is set and we can still dodge out of it.

Those suggestions make it absolutely horrible for PvP though. Sorc has LL because it also has curse frag and wrath, the only direct damage ability (forget flies) would be dive

SodanTok

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

What about some how making it where it can't be combined with a gap closer?

I dunno, I want my ability to be playable without 2H, I just have visions of a nerf that make it have to be paired with a closer

I would LOVE for it to become a ground target DOT like liquid lightning or cinder storm. Cut the damage in half but make it tic every second so the DPS is up 50%. The PvEers would love that too, and it’d still go through block so wardens would have as many skills that go through block as DKs do.

Or even if it isn’t a dot, just make it so it doesn’t follow the warden like a Destro ult. It should be ground target, not CAOE

Or hell, give it the selene’s and tremorscale treatment so that there’s a window of time where the AOE is set and we can still dodge out of it.

Those suggestions make it absolutely horrible for PvP though. Sorc has LL because it also has curse frag and wrath, the only direct damage ability (forget flies) would be dive

Why horrible? OP would not die anymore and that is apparently the only thing that matters to him.
Srsly. One thing is looking for ways to lower the burst of wardens, but some of these suggestion in this thread (mostly from OP) are just ways to make warden worst PVP class.

Making it insta cast or single target are at least sensible ways to limit 1sec combo, but AoE Ground DOTs? Lol.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Make SA pop after 2.5 seconds and lower the damage by 15%. That'll lower burst

This has nothing to do with me wanting to use it with Heem-Jaz set to chain kills with major berserk

Thogard

Aren’t birds enough for y

SodanTok wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

What about some how making it where it can't be combined with a gap closer?

I dunno, I want my ability to be playable without 2H, I just have visions of a nerf that make it have to be paired with a closer

I would LOVE for it to become a ground target DOT like liquid lightning or cinder storm. Cut the damage in half but make it tic every second so the DPS is up 50%. The PvEers would love that too, and it’d still go through block so wardens would have as many skills that go through block as DKs do.

Or even if it isn’t a dot, just make it so it doesn’t follow the warden like a Destro ult. It should be ground target, not CAOE

Or hell, give it the selene’s and tremorscale treatment so that there’s a window of time where the AOE is set and we can still dodge out of it.

Those suggestions make it absolutely horrible for PvP though. Sorc has LL because it also has curse frag and wrath, the only direct damage ability (forget flies) would be dive

Why horrible? OP would not die anymore and that is apparently the only thing that matters to him.
Srsly. One thing is looking for ways to lower the burst of wardens, but some of these suggestion in this thread (mostly from OP) are just ways to make warden worst PVP class.

Making it insta cast or single target are at least sensible ways to limit 1sec combo, but AoE Ground DOTs? Lol.

Granted, changing it to a DOT would be a bit overkill... but what would you propose? Just lower the dmg? The PvE'ers will never go for that.

wheem_ESO

Hopefully they'll find some way to tone down Stamina Warden without completely ruining Magicka Warden at the same time.

Waffennacht

.

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Hopefully they'll find some way to tone down Stamina Warden without completely ruining Magicka Warden at the same time.

It's really not all that complicated. It's a single ability that circumvents the GCD one time. It's no different than Curse only for stamina and AoE. If LoS is such a big deal then that's a fine change.

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Hopefully they'll find some way to tone down Stamina Warden without completely ruining Magicka Warden at the same time.

It's really not all that complicated. It's a single ability that circumvents the GCD one time. It's no different than Curse only for stamina and AoE. If LoS is such a big deal then that's a fine change.

curse is also purgeable, and can easily be prehealed by paying attention to your debuff bar. Furthermore, it makes the caster select there target, go in range, and be vulnerable for the 3s before it goes off... and sorcs are a bit easier to kill than stam wardens.

stam wardens just pop it before going into the fight and then stampede whoever they think is the easiest target 2s later.

Waffennacht

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Hopefully they'll find some way to tone down Stamina Warden without completely ruining Magicka Warden at the same time.

It's really not all that complicated. It's a single ability that circumvents the GCD one time. It's no different than Curse only for stamina and AoE. If LoS is such a big deal then that's a fine change.

curse is also purgeable, and can easily be prehealed by paying attention to your debuff bar. Furthermore, it makes the caster select there target, go in range, and be vulnerable for the 3s before it goes off... and sorcs are a bit easier to kill than stam wardens.

stam wardens just pop it before going into the fight and then stampede whoever they think is the easiest target 2s later.

Waffennacht wrote: »

If LoS is such a big deal then that's a fine change.

Lord-Otto

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm fairly confident you won't see a change any time soon, better start learning to deal

SA will get nerfed. It’s either nerf SA or nerf the entire sustain kit consisting of multiple skills, or adjust SA in a way that lowers its burst synergy with dawnbreaker but increases its overall DPS to make the PvE people happy. That’s definitely the path of least resistance.

Take off Major Fracture, add sneak cost reduction while slotted. Done.

Thogard

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm fairly confident you won't see a change any time soon, better start learning to deal

SA will get nerfed. It’s either nerf SA or nerf the entire sustain kit consisting of multiple skills, or adjust SA in a way that lowers its burst synergy with dawnbreaker but increases its overall DPS to make the PvE people happy. That’s definitely the path of least resistance.

Take off Major Fracture, add sneak cost reduction while slotted. Done.

make it bashable and you have yourself a deal.