Subterranean Assault Overperforming

Thogard

It's getting ridiculous. We're seeing more and more of it.

Too many people running one-round KO stam warden builds. And they all run the same thing... stampede, dawnbreaker, beetles, and reverse slice.

Subterranean assault needs to be a 1s channel like dark flare currently is. Giving that much burst to an ability that doesn't do its damage on the global cooldown (and stun and fracture) is just a bad idea. But to give it to the class with the best pvp healing and the best pvp sustain is absurd.

Ive been posting here for over a year.. never made a QQ post.

And for those who say "Oh its telegraphed, learn to play!" yeah, the bad wardens do that. I'm talking about the good ones that activate beetles and pop an immov pot out of range, then stampede on top of you right before beetles triggers. unless youre running javelin on templar there is 0 counterplay other than dodgerolling the stampede...

Oh yeah and they have major heroism through shimmering shield, so they can do this about every 15s...

It blows my mind that this ability hasn't been nerfed yet. And thats not even factoring in the whole "ignore the Z axis" element of it. Always fun to be playing BGs in arcane university and get dropped by a beetle being cast by someone two floors above you.

Here's a pic.... but lets not pretend you don't know exactly what im talking about. Just watch kodi's stream for 10min.

its a combo that kills most players in about 1.1s (not counting the stampede travel time). Thats ridiculous.

Everyone who doesn't already have one is making a stam warden on the 2x XP event next week.



EDIT: and in case you cant tell, that is in no CP battlegrounds. Its even worse in CP.

Waffennacht

Well seeing as gap closers over shoot atm, the counter would be walking forward...

So stamden gets: Dive and Shalk and you want to nerf Shalk huh?

Wow, maybe it's so effective because it's the only #$&+ing way to deal damage?

WreckfulAbandon

Subterranean Assault is too strong right now, but heavy armor and S&B's offensive potential need to be nerfed as well. Otherwise it will make little difference.

@ZOS_Wrobel

I humbly request that the combat balance team look into the issue of being able to easily spec to permablock and also put out serious damage. This is literally a handicap for any not wearing S&B and heavy armor. It makes medium much less competitive than heavy, and while light isn't in a bad place in a vacuum, heavy armor builds are still able to check too many boxes in PvP.

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

Well seeing as gap closers over shoot atm, the counter would be walking forward...

So stamden gets: Dive and Shalk and you want to nerf Shalk huh?

Wow, maybe it's so effective because it's the only #$&+ing way to deal damage?

It literally outdamages dawnbreaker and its damage tic doesn't use a tic of the global cooldown. If you think that is balanced... i just can't even comprehend how someone could think that.

Stacking that on top of regular stam DPS from the weapon skill lines is absurd. No other class can come close to that. The stamplar with power of the light.. maybe... but thats purgeable and takes 6s and requires plenty of damage build up for it to actually hit.

saying that beetles is a "balanced" skill for stamina players is beyond ridiculous at this point.

Im OK with it on mag wardens because at least they dont run stampede or a gap closer, meaning they ahve to actually risk compromising their position before it triggers.

Waffennacht

Have you ran warden? Do you know what would happen if the only burst damage component of a class was removed?

Why even be a stamden? You get so very little

WreckfulAbandon

Waffennacht wrote: »

Have you ran warden? Do you know what would happen if the only burst damage component of a class was removed?

Why even be a stamden? You get so very little

My level 24 stamden with purple gear has shown up to duels and wrecked more than a few max CP people. No joke.

You know what though, I'll revise my statement. Subterranean Assault should be reevaluated after Heavy Armor and S&B cease to be BiS armor and weapon choice for most PvP related activities.

Unless you want to be a scroll runner or are prepared to play at a much higher level than all the heavy armor user around you. If you're in light it's not as bad but I do feel sorry for medium users.

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

Have you ran warden? Do you know what would happen if the only burst damage component of a class was removed?

Why even be a stamden? You get so very little

I dont believe it has to be removed.

My issue is that it doesn't follow the global cooldown.

Id rather subterranean assault be a spammable that tics on the GCD than what it is right now. Having it, dawnbreaker, a light attack and reverse slice hit in 1s is just absurd. Especially with how high it delves.

I dont know how else to phrase it. If you think being able to stack the highest delving stamina damage ability on top of a dawnbreaker with a class that has easy access to major heroism and the best sustain / resource management of any stam class is fair, then i dont know how to reach you .

Juhasow

L2Counter'

Block/stun/LoS

WreckfulAbandon

Juhasow wrote: »

L2Counter'

Block/stun/LoS

^
Whistling past the graveyard here.

Guess what? That stamden is likely gonna utilize block better than you. But yeah, sure you can block some of that burst... lol

Waffennacht

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Have you ran warden? Do you know what would happen if the only burst damage component of a class was removed?

Why even be a stamden? You get so very little

I dont believe it has to be removed.

My issue is that it doesn't follow the global cooldown.

Id rather subterranean assault be a spammable that tics on the GCD than what it is right now. Having it, dawnbreaker, a light attack and reverse slice hit in 1s is just absurd. Especially with how high it delves.

I dont know how else to phrase it. If you think being able to stack the highest delving stamina damage ability on top of a dawnbreaker with a class that has easy access to major heroism and the best sustain / resource management of any stam class is fair, then i dont know how to reach you .

Best resource management? Just from Bull? I dunno about that, maybe if you count the lack of things to use your resources on lol

I would argue that Stam sorc has better access

Also, if you're dying to DboS, Shalk and reverse I say you're too squishy!

Oh and Crystal Slab/Shimmering only works on ranged attacks. If you think it's too good, don't attack with range abilities while it's up.

Personally I hate having shimmering slotted against non ranged builds

AverageJo3Gam3r

So it doesn't follow GCD like curse or power of the light...skills that have been in the game for years. Why single out shalks?

Arobain

as a stam warden that does use this ability, i do agree that it over performs, however, i believe it over performs because the aoe of it is insane, and if you guys didnt notice, you could be standing behind the caster, and STILL get hit, i have seen this happen to me very obviously in several duels, so you cant simply just get next to the caster or slightly behind to be safe, i feel because of these issues, its not performing as it should, and should be looked into

Thogard

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

So it doesn't follow GCD like curse or power of the light...skills that have been in the game for years. Why single out shalks?

Because power of the light requires you to take damage. PotL without other sources of damage makes PotL do zero damage.

Curse is great, but you cant put curse on someone without LOS and range.

Shalks can be activated out of range and out of LoS. Then a gap closer + dawnbreaker...

I want to stress that there are plenty of bad wardens that dont know how to use this ability. I'm only concerned about the good ones that can properly time it (and that use immov pots... and forward momentum)

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Have you ran warden? Do you know what would happen if the only burst damage component of a class was removed?

Why even be a stamden? You get so very little

I dont believe it has to be removed.

My issue is that it doesn't follow the global cooldown.

Id rather subterranean assault be a spammable that tics on the GCD than what it is right now. Having it, dawnbreaker, a light attack and reverse slice hit in 1s is just absurd. Especially with how high it delves.

I dont know how else to phrase it. If you think being able to stack the highest delving stamina damage ability on top of a dawnbreaker with a class that has easy access to major heroism and the best sustain / resource management of any stam class is fair, then i dont know how to reach you .

Best resource management? Just from Bull? I dunno about that, maybe if you count the lack of things to use your resources on lol

I would argue that Stam sorc has better access

Also, if you're dying to DboS, Shalk and reverse I say you're too squishy!

Oh and Crystal Slab/Shimmering only works on ranged attacks. If you think it's too good, don't attack with range abilities while it's up.

Personally I hate having shimmering slotted against non ranged builds

Can bash a dark deal. Cant bash a netch. or a shalk.

actually thats a really good idea. Subterranean assault should be bashable.

btw that was over 22k damage. In No CP. Im domination (no sigil). literally standing inside my restoring focus for the 8% minor protection. you can still see it...

RIP.

Waffennacht

Thogard wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

So it doesn't follow GCD like curse or power of the light...skills that have been in the game for years. Why single out shalks?

Because power of the light requires you to take damage. PotL without other sources of damage makes PotL do zero damage.

Curse is great, but you cant put curse on someone without LOS and range.

Shalks can be activated out of range and out of LoS. Then a gap closer + dawnbreaker...

I want to stress that there are plenty of bad wardens that dont know how to use this ability. I'm only concerned about the good ones that can properly time it (and that use immov pots... and forward momentum)

Good players doing well?!?! What blasphemy!!

How dare players win!?

How the heck would you prefer to lose?

WreckfulAbandon

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Have you ran warden? Do you know what would happen if the only burst damage component of a class was removed?

Why even be a stamden? You get so very little

I dont believe it has to be removed.

My issue is that it doesn't follow the global cooldown.

Id rather subterranean assault be a spammable that tics on the GCD than what it is right now. Having it, dawnbreaker, a light attack and reverse slice hit in 1s is just absurd. Especially with how high it delves.

I dont know how else to phrase it. If you think being able to stack the highest delving stamina damage ability on top of a dawnbreaker with a class that has easy access to major heroism and the best sustain / resource management of any stam class is fair, then i dont know how to reach you .

Best resource management? Just from Bull? I dunno about that, maybe if you count the lack of things to use your resources on lol

I would argue that Stam sorc has better access

Also, if you're dying to DboS, Shalk and reverse I say you're too squishy!

Oh and Crystal Slab/Shimmering only works on ranged attacks. If you think it's too good, don't attack with range abilities while it's up.

Personally I hate having shimmering slotted against non ranged builds

Can bash a dark deal. Cant bash a netch. or a shalk.

actually thats a really good idea. Subterranean assault should be bashable.

btw that was over 22k damage. In No CP. Im domination (no sigil). literally standing inside my restoring focus for the 8% minor protection. you can still see it...

RIP.

And unless they only switched to 2h for the execute they still did it wrong. Same combo in S&B does less damage but allows almost zero counterplay.

paulsimonps

I love it, everyone says Wardens are trash but yet you can find a "NERF X" thread for almost all of their abilities. But no, remember, the Wardens are trash.

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

So it doesn't follow GCD like curse or power of the light...skills that have been in the game for years. Why single out shalks?

Because power of the light requires you to take damage. PotL without other sources of damage makes PotL do zero damage.

Curse is great, but you cant put curse on someone without LOS and range.

Shalks can be activated out of range and out of LoS. Then a gap closer + dawnbreaker...

I want to stress that there are plenty of bad wardens that dont know how to use this ability. I'm only concerned about the good ones that can properly time it (and that use immov pots... and forward momentum)

Good players doing well?!?! What blasphemy!!

How dare players win!?

How the heck would you prefer to lose?

i said good wardens, not good players.

you really setting me up for that one.

Thogard

paulsimonps wrote: »

I love it, everyone says Wardens are trash but yet you can find a "NERF X" thread for almost all of their abilities. But no, remember, the Wardens are trash.

wardens are trash in PvE apparently. I dont think anyone believes they're bad in PvP.

Waffennacht

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

So it doesn't follow GCD like curse or power of the light...skills that have been in the game for years. Why single out shalks?

Because power of the light requires you to take damage. PotL without other sources of damage makes PotL do zero damage.

Curse is great, but you cant put curse on someone without LOS and range.

Shalks can be activated out of range and out of LoS. Then a gap closer + dawnbreaker...

I want to stress that there are plenty of bad wardens that dont know how to use this ability. I'm only concerned about the good ones that can properly time it (and that use immov pots... and forward momentum)

Good players doing well?!?! What blasphemy!!

How dare players win!?

How the heck would you prefer to lose?

i said good wardens, not good players.

you really setting me up for that one.

Lol, I feel like I'm setting myself up for a big face smack 90% of the time lol

But seriously though, how would you expect a stamden to win? Let's say ZoS does their thing and just straight up Reduces the damage (because it's rare ZoS does anything else) their bar would be entirely weapon skills really.

I'm not saying it's not Uber powerful, I say it's that way because without it being Uber powerful Stamden won't kill anything - especially a SnB user

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

So it doesn't follow GCD like curse or power of the light...skills that have been in the game for years. Why single out shalks?

Because power of the light requires you to take damage. PotL without other sources of damage makes PotL do zero damage.

Curse is great, but you cant put curse on someone without LOS and range.

Shalks can be activated out of range and out of LoS. Then a gap closer + dawnbreaker...

I want to stress that there are plenty of bad wardens that dont know how to use this ability. I'm only concerned about the good ones that can properly time it (and that use immov pots... and forward momentum)

Good players doing well?!?! What blasphemy!!

How dare players win!?

How the heck would you prefer to lose?

i said good wardens, not good players.

you really setting me up for that one.

Lol, I feel like I'm setting myself up for a big face smack 90% of the time lol

But seriously though, how would you expect a stamden to win? Let's say ZoS does their thing and just straight up Reduces the damage (because it's rare ZoS does anything else) their bar would be entirely weapon skills really.

I'm not saying it's not Uber powerful, I say it's that way because without it being Uber powerful Stamden won't kill anything - especially a SnB user

a bar that's almost entirely weapon skills? How terrible. My stam DK feels so sorry...

but seriously they'd still have birds, which can still be used to burst. They also dont have to slot 2h for brutality and heals and can run the passive damage abilities from DW and stack that with 1h/shield's reverb.

Sanctum74

So a highly telegraphed skill that leaves a ring around the caster till it goes off, can only be used once every 3 seconds(5 seconds in lag), and requires the caster to be facing the opponent when the 3 seconds is up is op and needs to be nerfed!?

I'd suggest the many counters you have available to you, but I have a feeling just like the nerf potion thread, nerf is the only solution.

Waffennacht

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

So it doesn't follow GCD like curse or power of the light...skills that have been in the game for years. Why single out shalks?

Because power of the light requires you to take damage. PotL without other sources of damage makes PotL do zero damage.

Curse is great, but you cant put curse on someone without LOS and range.

Shalks can be activated out of range and out of LoS. Then a gap closer + dawnbreaker...

I want to stress that there are plenty of bad wardens that dont know how to use this ability. I'm only concerned about the good ones that can properly time it (and that use immov pots... and forward momentum)

Good players doing well?!?! What blasphemy!!

How dare players win!?

How the heck would you prefer to lose?

i said good wardens, not good players.

you really setting me up for that one.

Lol, I feel like I'm setting myself up for a big face smack 90% of the time lol

But seriously though, how would you expect a stamden to win? Let's say ZoS does their thing and just straight up Reduces the damage (because it's rare ZoS does anything else) their bar would be entirely weapon skills really.

I'm not saying it's not Uber powerful, I say it's that way because without it being Uber powerful Stamden won't kill anything - especially a SnB user

a bar that's almost entirely weapon skills? How terrible. My stam DK feels so sorry...

but seriously they'd still have birds, which can still be used to burst. They also dont have to slot 2h for brutality and heals and can run the passive damage abilities from DW and stack that with 1h/shield's reverb.

No snare removal with that set up fyi, invasion can be a gap closer but messes up reverb - meaning you'll never catch a NB (which is fotm right now) and then die to a 15k Will

Your healing will blow on that, esp from defile (Incap)

Your burst is horrible on that as well, if you gap close, no CC meaning no hits and they'll easily Regen to full

Templars will love you as they purge your offense and force you to fight in their house (snared btw)

You almost Have to run FM (esp with shuffle changes) meaning you have to run 2H (killin set options)

In solo play, you'll be very hard pressed to kill almost any mag build without that sub burst

Thogard

Sanctum74 wrote: »

So a highly telegraphed skill that leaves a ring around the caster till it goes off, can only be used once every 3 seconds(5 seconds in lag), and requires the caster to be facing the opponent when the 3 seconds is up is op and needs to be nerfed!?

I'd suggest the many counters you have available to you, but I have a feeling just like the nerf potion thread, nerf is the only solution.

Again, i want to stress that this post is not directed at the 90% of bad players who tried playing stam warden and couldn't land their shalks.

This is against the 10% of players who were good enough to figure out how to land it without offering a counter.

Just because you can't make it work doesn't mean that other players can't either.

ak_pvp

If you play sorc or DK. Root, turn around. They can heavy attack to turn, but then it fks their burst. If you play NB. Cloak and move. If you play templar. Javelin them? (Less usability tbh.) If you play warden, well, then you are probably using it.

I can do the same as a DK, my ST burst combo is prebuff inferno. Talons, deep breath, whip, power whip. Deep breath, power whip, and inferno pop at the same time. Thats 2 abilities ignoring GCD. 3 if you count a random skoria proc. Or more close to the warden example. Breath, talons, leap. with DB explosion and a probable skoria popping to deal decent damage to groups. But mine is full AoE

Same with POTL or curse. Imo shalk is fine and doesn't need a nerf. IF ANYTHING. Then it has to be within range to cast.

Jade1986

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Subterranean Assault is too strong right now, but heavy armor and S&B's offensive potential need to be nerfed as well. Otherwise it will make little difference.

@ZOS_Wrobel

I humbly request that the combat balance team look into the issue of being able to easily spec to permablock and also put out serious damage. This is literally a handicap for any not wearing S&B and heavy armor. It makes medium much less competitive than heavy, and while light isn't in a bad place in a vacuum, heavy armor builds are still able to check too many boxes in PvP.

Did you just say SnB offensive needs to be nerfed, are you out of your mind?! Literally every weapon line is more powerful than sNb atm....

Thogard

ak_pvp wrote: »

If you play sorc or DK. Root, turn around. They can heavy attack to turn, but then it fks their burst. If you play NB. Cloak and move. If you play templar. Javelin them? (Less usability tbh.) If you play warden, well, then you are probably using it.

I can do the same as a DK, my ST burst combo is prebuff inferno. Talons, deep breath, whip, power whip. Deep breath, power whip, and inferno pop at the same time. Thats 2 abilities ignoring GCD. 3 if you count a random skoria proc. Or more close to the warden example. Breath, talons, leap. with DB explosion and a probable skoria popping to deal decent damage to groups. But mine is full AoE

Same with POTL or curse. Imo shalk is fine and doesn't need a nerf. IF ANYTHING. Then it has to be within range to cast.

I dont know how many times i have to say it.

The stam warden activates shalks off screen and out of range. 2 seconds later, the stam warden moves into range and uses stampede. The shalks hit right when stampede hits. There is zero counterplay.

EDIT: took out some mean things i said. i apologize for that.

WreckfulAbandon

laced wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Subterranean Assault is too strong right now, but heavy armor and S&B's offensive potential need to be nerfed as well. Otherwise it will make little difference.

@ZOS_Wrobel

I humbly request that the combat balance team look into the issue of being able to easily spec to permablock and also put out serious damage. This is literally a handicap for any not wearing S&B and heavy armor. It makes medium much less competitive than heavy, and while light isn't in a bad place in a vacuum, heavy armor builds are still able to check too many boxes in PvP.

Did you just say SnB offensive needs to be nerfed, are you out of your mind?!

Are you? Wrath passive? Free 5% weapon damage? Great sets like seventh legion to use with that permablock? Yes, it's highly unbalanced that such great offensive and defensive potential are available to S&B. Literally simultaneously available.

Wrath is not OP on its own, neither is 5% weapon damage. Look at the big picture. You can effortlessly permablock and still put out solid burst with S&B.

Waffennacht

.

Thogard wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

If you play sorc or DK. Root, turn around. They can heavy attack to turn, but then it fks their burst. If you play NB. Cloak and move. If you play templar. Javelin them? (Less usability tbh.) If you play warden, well, then you are probably using it.

I can do the same as a DK, my ST burst combo is prebuff inferno. Talons, deep breath, whip, power whip. Deep breath, power whip, and inferno pop at the same time. Thats 2 abilities ignoring GCD. 3 if you count a random skoria proc. Or more close to the warden example. Breath, talons, leap. with DB explosion and a probable skoria popping to deal decent damage to groups. But mine is full AoE

Same with POTL or curse. Imo shalk is fine and doesn't need a nerf. IF ANYTHING. Then it has to be within range to cast.

I dont know how many times i have to say it.

The stam warden activates shalks off screen and out of range. 2 seconds later, the stam warden moves into range and uses stampede. The shalks hit right when stampede hits. There is zero counterplay.

EDIT: took out some mean things i said. i apologize for that.

1 counter play would be use a shield if mag
Another would be block
Another is have more than 20k health

I just can't feel bad about a DD being dealt damage, that's your trade off, you can kill like non other, but you die just as easily as you kill.

If you had 30-40k health or were defensive oriented you wouldn't have these issues.

I think too many players are too offensively oriented and lead this game into pure glass cannons.

Everyone wants to be a 1vXer which isn't good for the game

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

Thogard wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

If you play sorc or DK. Root, turn around. They can heavy attack to turn, but then it fks their burst. If you play NB. Cloak and move. If you play templar. Javelin them? (Less usability tbh.) If you play warden, well, then you are probably using it.

I can do the same as a DK, my ST burst combo is prebuff inferno. Talons, deep breath, whip, power whip. Deep breath, power whip, and inferno pop at the same time. Thats 2 abilities ignoring GCD. 3 if you count a random skoria proc. Or more close to the warden example. Breath, talons, leap. with DB explosion and a probable skoria popping to deal decent damage to groups. But mine is full AoE

Same with POTL or curse. Imo shalk is fine and doesn't need a nerf. IF ANYTHING. Then it has to be within range to cast.

I dont know how many times i have to say it.

The stam warden activates shalks off screen and out of range. 2 seconds later, the stam warden moves into range and uses stampede. The shalks hit right when stampede hits. There is zero counterplay.

EDIT: took out some mean things i said. i apologize for that.

1 counter play would be use a shield if mag
Another would be block
Another is have more than 20k health

I just can't feel bad about a DD being dealt damage, that's your trade off, you can kill like non other, but you die just as easily as you kill.

If you had 30-40k health or were defensive oriented you wouldn't have these issues.

I think too many players are too offensively oriented and lead this game into pure glass cannons.

Everyone wants to be a 1vXer which isn't good for the game

Stop thinking about it in terms of whether its possible or not, and think of it in terms of "If any class should be able to do it, which one is that?"

It should be a stam blade. Or a mag sorc.

But certainly not the class with the best pvp healing and sustain in the game...... ...... ..........

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Let’s all be honest here. Any class can do this type of burst setup. An Stamblade can cloak, HA, SA, IC, KB with animation canceling and kill someone in a second and a half. A mage blade will hit with a 13k assassins will and impale. A DK will whip or wrecking blow, leap, executioner, all canceled animation and dead in a second and a half or less. Templar spams Jabs until dawn breaker is up, use it, then radiant. A sorc will have curse on you, mages fury, and procced frags, and as you hit low HP mages fury’s second effect occurs to execute.

Literally all the above combos can kill someone in 1.5 seconds. But let me rephrase that...any of the above combos will kill a MEDIUM armor wearer in 1.5 seconds. There’s the issue.

All these heavy armor super tank builds that are running around these days can have damn near all the above happen at the same time and if someone wasn’t clever enough to CC them they block through it and laugh (slightly exaggerating here lol). You wear medium? You’re in a world of hurt. Now don’t get me wrong. I wear medium and do more than fine. But I have to work twice as hard to survive and no matter what, when a persons timing is just right they can melt me or anyone else wearing medium in a second because there is no counter play as the majority of the above combos have at least one or two huge damage attacks that are undodgable. Personally, I hold block and usually survive. But like I said, there are plenty of times where everything is going fine and above 90% HP then suddenly dead and it’s like “wtf just happened” and it all took place in one second, even faster than the break free animation trying to get away and heal.

People over exaggerate saying taking away major evasion from people in 5 heavy will some how be a huge nerf to these super tanks but that’s a load of crap. It will slightly help and maybe force some people to choose between forward momentum and rally if they want to remove snares, but overall these people are already so spec’d into block cost reduction they don’t need to evade anything.

Call me salty all you want, but heavy out performs medium. Light out performs medium. Keeping shuffle to just medium armor is not a buff to medium armor. If anything, wearing 5 or more medium dodge roll fatigue should be reduced by 50% and if you receive AoE damage while dodging the damage is reduced by 50%. NB no longer gets the 30% stamina recovery bonus and cost for everything has been increased in general so the ancient infinite dodge rollers would never be as bad as they were in the past. Honestly, shuffles snare immunity to give a flat 6 seconds of snare removal if 5 or more medium is worn. It’s expensive as it is so don’t think people will just spam it endlessly.

That’s my 2 cents.