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Subterranean Assault Overperforming
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Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again within 5 seconds vs sub assult 3 seconds. Would you dodge a 20 meter dawnbreaker?
-Cloak cloak cloak. obviously a l2p issue on that one.
-stun = 5 second cool-down due to cc immunity... so each 5 seconds they will get a guarantee chance to hit you for dawnbreaker like damage assuming you can stun then each 5 seconds which is likely not going to happen.
The burst needs to be increased to once every 6 seconds and if its going to ignore block and dodge it should also ignore shields. Stop giving these 25k+ shields a free pass.
All in all though it hits for too much as much as a dawnbreaker, it hits farther than a dawnbreaker, and does not cost ultimate like a dawnbreaker...
I might be able to counter it if i could reliably root cheaply.
This skill is laughable, I only see casual to low level players complaining about it. You can easily snare, cc, kite left or right or walk through them altogether. OR BETTER YET, pressure them off their front bar to their back bar.(this is the most skilled decision to do)
None of those options work in the conditions being discussed. Not a single one.
Why do all console players seem to think PvP happens with both parties standing in one place and taking turns hitting each other?PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again within 5 seconds vs sub assult 3 seconds. Would you dodge a 20 meter dawnbreaker?
-Cloak cloak cloak. obviously a l2p issue on that one.
-stun = 5 second cool-down due to cc immunity... so each 5 seconds they will get a guarantee chance to hit you for dawnbreaker like damage assuming you can stun then each 5 seconds which is likely not going to happen.
The burst needs to be increased to once every 6 seconds and if its going to ignore block and dodge it should also ignore shields. Stop giving these 25k+ shields a free pass.
All in all though it hits for too much as much as a dawnbreaker, it hits farther than a dawnbreaker, and does not cost ultimate like a dawnbreaker...
I might be able to counter it if i could reliably root cheaply.
This skill is laughable, I only see casual to low level players complaining about it. You can easily snare, cc, kite left or right or walk through them altogether. OR BETTER YET, pressure them off their front bar to their back bar.(this is the most skilled decision to do)
None of those options work in the conditions being discussed. Not a single one.
Why do all console players seem to think PvP happens with both parties standing in one place and taking turns hitting each other?
All of those options work every time if you use them. I use them dozens of times every night and the only time I have ever died to that combo was from being targeted by multiple players. If you don't want to use the counters fine, but please stop saying they don't work because you're starting to lose all credibility at this point.
0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭LoL, that skill takes time to activate and you actually can get easy out of it,
it is only good in static boss fights and
against hunks who are not able to move their chars around.
and even then it is not an execute^^1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again within 5 seconds vs sub assult 3 seconds. Would you dodge a 20 meter dawnbreaker?
-Cloak cloak cloak. obviously a l2p issue on that one.
-stun = 5 second cool-down due to cc immunity... so each 5 seconds they will get a guarantee chance to hit you for dawnbreaker like damage assuming you can stun then each 5 seconds which is likely not going to happen.
The burst needs to be increased to once every 6 seconds and if its going to ignore block and dodge it should also ignore shields. Stop giving these 25k+ shields a free pass.
All in all though it hits for too much as much as a dawnbreaker, it hits farther than a dawnbreaker, and does not cost ultimate like a dawnbreaker...
I might be able to counter it if i could reliably root cheaply.
This skill is laughable, I only see casual to low level players complaining about it. You can easily snare, cc, kite left or right or walk through them altogether. OR BETTER YET, pressure them off their front bar to their back bar.(this is the most skilled decision to do)
None of those options work in the conditions being discussed. Not a single one.
Why do all console players seem to think PvP happens with both parties standing in one place and taking turns hitting each other?
All of those options work every time if you use them. I use them dozens of times every night and the only time I have ever died to that combo was from being targeted by multiple players. If you don't want to use the counters fine, but please stop saying they don't work because you're starting to lose all credibility at this point.
Buddy. You must be one of those guys who duels but doesn’t do any real PvP.
Immov pot
FM
Gap close
Dawnbreaker
None of your counters work.
What does work is gap closing the warden gap closing you. Walk through does not work against a decent warden because the sub is timed to hit during the stampede, not at the end.
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again within 5 seconds vs sub assult 3 seconds. Would you dodge a 20 meter dawnbreaker?
-Cloak cloak cloak. obviously a l2p issue on that one.
-stun = 5 second cool-down due to cc immunity... so each 5 seconds they will get a guarantee chance to hit you for dawnbreaker like damage assuming you can stun then each 5 seconds which is likely not going to happen.
The burst needs to be increased to once every 6 seconds and if its going to ignore block and dodge it should also ignore shields. Stop giving these 25k+ shields a free pass.
All in all though it hits for too much as much as a dawnbreaker, it hits farther than a dawnbreaker, and does not cost ultimate like a dawnbreaker...
I might be able to counter it if i could reliably root cheaply.
This skill is laughable, I only see casual to low level players complaining about it. You can easily snare, cc, kite left or right or walk through them altogether. OR BETTER YET, pressure them off their front bar to their back bar.(this is the most skilled decision to do)
None of those options work in the conditions being discussed. Not a single one.
Why do all console players seem to think PvP happens with both parties standing in one place and taking turns hitting each other?
All of those options work every time if you use them. I use them dozens of times every night and the only time I have ever died to that combo was from being targeted by multiple players. If you don't want to use the counters fine, but please stop saying they don't work because you're starting to lose all credibility at this point.
Buddy. You must be one of those guys who duels but doesn’t do any real PvP.
Immov pot
FM
Gap close
Dawnbreaker
None of your counters work.
What does work is gap closing the warden gap closing you. Walk through does not work against a decent warden because the sub is timed to hit during the stampede, not at the end.zParallaxz wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again within 5 seconds vs sub assult 3 seconds. Would you dodge a 20 meter dawnbreaker?
-Cloak cloak cloak. obviously a l2p issue on that one.
-stun = 5 second cool-down due to cc immunity... so each 5 seconds they will get a guarantee chance to hit you for dawnbreaker like damage assuming you can stun then each 5 seconds which is likely not going to happen.
The burst needs to be increased to once every 6 seconds and if its going to ignore block and dodge it should also ignore shields. Stop giving these 25k+ shields a free pass.
All in all though it hits for too much as much as a dawnbreaker, it hits farther than a dawnbreaker, and does not cost ultimate like a dawnbreaker...
I might be able to counter it if i could reliably root cheaply.
This skill is laughable, I only see casual to low level players complaining about it. You can easily snare, cc, kite left or right or walk through them altogether. OR BETTER YET, pressure them off their front bar to their back bar.(this is the most skilled decision to do)
None of those options work in the conditions being discussed. Not a single one.
Why do all console players seem to think PvP happens with both parties standing in one place and taking turns hitting each other?
All of those options work every time if you use them. I use them dozens of times every night and the only time I have ever died to that combo was from being targeted by multiple players. If you don't want to use the counters fine, but please stop saying they don't work because you're starting to lose all credibility at this point.
Buddy. You must be one of those guys who duels but doesn’t do any real PvP.
Immov pot
FM
Gap close
Dawnbreaker
None of your counters work.
What does work is gap closing the warden gap closing you. Walk through does not work against a decent warden because the sub is timed to hit during the stampede, not at the end.
I don't duel, but I do pvp about 5 hours a day so I've got plenty of experience playing with and against wardens. I've got my magden up to general and I've only lost 3 fights with it which gets to the real problem of the warden, survivability is too good.
Anyway back on subject, so in your case you can't cc them because of fm and immov pot, but you can still gap close them and try to burst them down. No use sitting there waiting 3 seconds after a very obvious skill animation. Sometimes applying pressure is the best defense.
You can also use hot's and block to mitigate some of the damage and if your dieing to just db and sa then your build is too squishy.
As far as walk through or roll dodge through the person goes it works every time. If your close enough then they can't even use the gap closer and if your not close enough you have 3 seconds to react which is plenty of time. Situational awareness is key in any fight.
You can also just go defensive until their cc immunity is up and then do your burst combo while they have to wait to get their ult back up since it's really the combo your complaining about not the actual skill itself.
Point is there are plenty of options to survive this highly telegraphed combo that also relies on an ult to be effective. The only players that pull this off effectively are good players and they are going to be good on whatever class they play on. Sorry I just can't get on board to nerfing a skill that requires cc immunity, gap closer, ult, and someone not paying attention to be effective.
0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again within 5 seconds vs sub assult 3 seconds. Would you dodge a 20 meter dawnbreaker?
-Cloak cloak cloak. obviously a l2p issue on that one.
-stun = 5 second cool-down due to cc immunity... so each 5 seconds they will get a guarantee chance to hit you for dawnbreaker like damage assuming you can stun then each 5 seconds which is likely not going to happen.
The burst needs to be increased to once every 6 seconds and if its going to ignore block and dodge it should also ignore shields. Stop giving these 25k+ shields a free pass.
All in all though it hits for too much as much as a dawnbreaker, it hits farther than a dawnbreaker, and does not cost ultimate like a dawnbreaker...
I might be able to counter it if i could reliably root cheaply.
This skill is laughable, I only see casual to low level players complaining about it. You can easily snare, cc, kite left or right or walk through them altogether. OR BETTER YET, pressure them off their front bar to their back bar.(this is the most skilled decision to do)
None of those options work in the conditions being discussed. Not a single one.
Why do all console players seem to think PvP happens with both parties standing in one place and taking turns hitting each other?
All of those options work every time if you use them. I use them dozens of times every night and the only time I have ever died to that combo was from being targeted by multiple players. If you don't want to use the counters fine, but please stop saying they don't work because you're starting to lose all credibility at this point.
Buddy. You must be one of those guys who duels but doesn’t do any real PvP.
Immov pot
FM
Gap close
Dawnbreaker
None of your counters work.
What does work is gap closing the warden gap closing you. Walk through does not work against a decent warden because the sub is timed to hit during the stampede, not at the end.zParallaxz wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again within 5 seconds vs sub assult 3 seconds. Would you dodge a 20 meter dawnbreaker?
-Cloak cloak cloak. obviously a l2p issue on that one.
-stun = 5 second cool-down due to cc immunity... so each 5 seconds they will get a guarantee chance to hit you for dawnbreaker like damage assuming you can stun then each 5 seconds which is likely not going to happen.
The burst needs to be increased to once every 6 seconds and if its going to ignore block and dodge it should also ignore shields. Stop giving these 25k+ shields a free pass.
All in all though it hits for too much as much as a dawnbreaker, it hits farther than a dawnbreaker, and does not cost ultimate like a dawnbreaker...
I might be able to counter it if i could reliably root cheaply.
This skill is laughable, I only see casual to low level players complaining about it. You can easily snare, cc, kite left or right or walk through them altogether. OR BETTER YET, pressure them off their front bar to their back bar.(this is the most skilled decision to do)
None of those options work in the conditions being discussed. Not a single one.
Why do all console players seem to think PvP happens with both parties standing in one place and taking turns hitting each other?
All of those options work every time if you use them. I use them dozens of times every night and the only time I have ever died to that combo was from being targeted by multiple players. If you don't want to use the counters fine, but please stop saying they don't work because you're starting to lose all credibility at this point.
Buddy. You must be one of those guys who duels but doesn’t do any real PvP.
Immov pot
FM
Gap close
Dawnbreaker
None of your counters work.
What does work is gap closing the warden gap closing you. Walk through does not work against a decent warden because the sub is timed to hit during the stampede, not at the end.
I don't duel, but I do pvp about 5 hours a day so I've got plenty of experience playing with and against wardens. I've got my magden up to general and I've only lost 3 fights with it which gets to the real problem of the warden, survivability is too good.
Anyway back on subject, so in your case you can't cc them because of fm and immov pot, but you can still gap close them and try to burst them down. No use sitting there waiting 3 seconds after a very obvious skill animation. Sometimes applying pressure is the best defense.
You can also use hot's and block to mitigate some of the damage and if your dieing to just db and sa then your build is too squishy.
As far as walk through or roll dodge through the person goes it works every time. If your close enough then they can't even use the gap closer and if your not close enough you have 3 seconds to react which is plenty of time. Situational awareness is key in any fight.
You can also just go defensive until their cc immunity is up and then do your burst combo while they have to wait to get their ult back up since it's really the combo your complaining about not the actual skill itself.
Point is there are plenty of options to survive this highly telegraphed combo that also relies on an ult to be effective. The only players that pull this off effectively are good players and they are going to be good on whatever class they play on. Sorry I just can't get on board to nerfing a skill that requires cc immunity, gap closer, ult, and someone not paying attention to be effective.
For magden, yes, but not stamden. It’s not a highly telegraphed combo for a stamden in medium and with runspeed pots. I put my shalks down out of LoS, pop an immov / speed pot (with clever alch), and then stampede the target.
It takes a bit of practice to have the shalks land half way through the stampede (as opposed to at the end, which is vulnerable to walk through). But once you get the hang of it, it’s pretty easy to replicate, and the shalks have a very long range which gives a lot of room for error.
TBH nerfing the range of shalks would make them easier to counter when used by a good player.
Aren’t you on PC NA? I feel like we’ve fought before in the BGs or on shor.
I’ll be running an EP 4man in shor doing syncd sub assaults this evening. Now that AOE caps are gone and destro ult’s range is nerfed, wardens are the new kings.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again within 5 seconds vs sub assult 3 seconds. Would you dodge a 20 meter dawnbreaker?
-Cloak cloak cloak. obviously a l2p issue on that one.
-stun = 5 second cool-down due to cc immunity... so each 5 seconds they will get a guarantee chance to hit you for dawnbreaker like damage assuming you can stun then each 5 seconds which is likely not going to happen.
The burst needs to be increased to once every 6 seconds and if its going to ignore block and dodge it should also ignore shields. Stop giving these 25k+ shields a free pass.
All in all though it hits for too much as much as a dawnbreaker, it hits farther than a dawnbreaker, and does not cost ultimate like a dawnbreaker...
I might be able to counter it if i could reliably root cheaply.
This skill is laughable, I only see casual to low level players complaining about it. You can easily snare, cc, kite left or right or walk through them altogether. OR BETTER YET, pressure them off their front bar to their back bar.(this is the most skilled decision to do)
None of those options work in the conditions being discussed. Not a single one.
Why do all console players seem to think PvP happens with both parties standing in one place and taking turns hitting each other?
All of those options work every time if you use them. I use them dozens of times every night and the only time I have ever died to that combo was from being targeted by multiple players. If you don't want to use the counters fine, but please stop saying they don't work because you're starting to lose all credibility at this point.
Buddy. You must be one of those guys who duels but doesn’t do any real PvP.
Immov pot
FM
Gap close
Dawnbreaker
None of your counters work.
What does work is gap closing the warden gap closing you. Walk through does not work against a decent warden because the sub is timed to hit during the stampede, not at the end.zParallaxz wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again within 5 seconds vs sub assult 3 seconds. Would you dodge a 20 meter dawnbreaker?
-Cloak cloak cloak. obviously a l2p issue on that one.
-stun = 5 second cool-down due to cc immunity... so each 5 seconds they will get a guarantee chance to hit you for dawnbreaker like damage assuming you can stun then each 5 seconds which is likely not going to happen.
The burst needs to be increased to once every 6 seconds and if its going to ignore block and dodge it should also ignore shields. Stop giving these 25k+ shields a free pass.
All in all though it hits for too much as much as a dawnbreaker, it hits farther than a dawnbreaker, and does not cost ultimate like a dawnbreaker...
I might be able to counter it if i could reliably root cheaply.
This skill is laughable, I only see casual to low level players complaining about it. You can easily snare, cc, kite left or right or walk through them altogether. OR BETTER YET, pressure them off their front bar to their back bar.(this is the most skilled decision to do)
None of those options work in the conditions being discussed. Not a single one.
Why do all console players seem to think PvP happens with both parties standing in one place and taking turns hitting each other?
All of those options work every time if you use them. I use them dozens of times every night and the only time I have ever died to that combo was from being targeted by multiple players. If you don't want to use the counters fine, but please stop saying they don't work because you're starting to lose all credibility at this point.
Buddy. You must be one of those guys who duels but doesn’t do any real PvP.
Immov pot
FM
Gap close
Dawnbreaker
None of your counters work.
What does work is gap closing the warden gap closing you. Walk through does not work against a decent warden because the sub is timed to hit during the stampede, not at the end.
I don't duel, but I do pvp about 5 hours a day so I've got plenty of experience playing with and against wardens. I've got my magden up to general and I've only lost 3 fights with it which gets to the real problem of the warden, survivability is too good.
Anyway back on subject, so in your case you can't cc them because of fm and immov pot, but you can still gap close them and try to burst them down. No use sitting there waiting 3 seconds after a very obvious skill animation. Sometimes applying pressure is the best defense.
You can also use hot's and block to mitigate some of the damage and if your dieing to just db and sa then your build is too squishy.
As far as walk through or roll dodge through the person goes it works every time. If your close enough then they can't even use the gap closer and if your not close enough you have 3 seconds to react which is plenty of time. Situational awareness is key in any fight.
You can also just go defensive until their cc immunity is up and then do your burst combo while they have to wait to get their ult back up since it's really the combo your complaining about not the actual skill itself.
Point is there are plenty of options to survive this highly telegraphed combo that also relies on an ult to be effective. The only players that pull this off effectively are good players and they are going to be good on whatever class they play on. Sorry I just can't get on board to nerfing a skill that requires cc immunity, gap closer, ult, and someone not paying attention to be effective.
For magden, yes, but not stamden. It’s not a highly telegraphed combo for a stamden in medium and with runspeed pots. I put my shalks down out of LoS, pop an immov / speed pot (with clever alch), and then stampede the target.
It takes a bit of practice to have the shalks land half way through the stampede (as opposed to at the end, which is vulnerable to walk through). But once you get the hang of it, it’s pretty easy to replicate, and the shalks have a very long range which gives a lot of room for error.
TBH nerfing the range of shalks would make them easier to counter when used by a good player.
Aren’t you on PC NA? I feel like we’ve fought before in the BGs or on shor.
I’ll be running an EP 4man in shor doing syncd sub assaults this evening. Now that AOE caps are gone and destro ult’s range is nerfed, wardens are the new kings.
mNBs may disagree with you about who is king
and if Templars aren't all bugged up, they may also wanna try for the throne.
But... Skoria on a magden is pretty freaking solid0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »zParallaxz wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again within 5 seconds vs sub assult 3 seconds. Would you dodge a 20 meter dawnbreaker?
-Cloak cloak cloak. obviously a l2p issue on that one.
-stun = 5 second cool-down due to cc immunity... so each 5 seconds they will get a guarantee chance to hit you for dawnbreaker like damage assuming you can stun then each 5 seconds which is likely not going to happen.
The burst needs to be increased to once every 6 seconds and if its going to ignore block and dodge it should also ignore shields. Stop giving these 25k+ shields a free pass.
All in all though it hits for too much as much as a dawnbreaker, it hits farther than a dawnbreaker, and does not cost ultimate like a dawnbreaker...
I might be able to counter it if i could reliably root cheaply.
This skill is laughable, I only see casual to low level players complaining about it. You can easily snare, cc, kite left or right or walk through them altogether. OR BETTER YET, pressure them off their front bar to their back bar.(this is the most skilled decision to do)
None of those options work in the conditions being discussed. Not a single one.
Why do all console players seem to think PvP happens with both parties standing in one place and taking turns hitting each other?
All of those options work every time if you use them. I use them dozens of times every night and the only time I have ever died to that combo was from being targeted by multiple players. If you don't want to use the counters fine, but please stop saying they don't work because you're starting to lose all credibility at this point.
Buddy. You must be one of those guys who duels but doesn’t do any real PvP.
Immov pot
FM
Gap close
Dawnbreaker
None of your counters work.
What does work is gap closing the warden gap closing you. Walk through does not work against a decent warden because the sub is timed to hit during the stampede, not at the end.zParallaxz wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again within 5 seconds vs sub assult 3 seconds. Would you dodge a 20 meter dawnbreaker?
-Cloak cloak cloak. obviously a l2p issue on that one.
-stun = 5 second cool-down due to cc immunity... so each 5 seconds they will get a guarantee chance to hit you for dawnbreaker like damage assuming you can stun then each 5 seconds which is likely not going to happen.
The burst needs to be increased to once every 6 seconds and if its going to ignore block and dodge it should also ignore shields. Stop giving these 25k+ shields a free pass.
All in all though it hits for too much as much as a dawnbreaker, it hits farther than a dawnbreaker, and does not cost ultimate like a dawnbreaker...
I might be able to counter it if i could reliably root cheaply.
This skill is laughable, I only see casual to low level players complaining about it. You can easily snare, cc, kite left or right or walk through them altogether. OR BETTER YET, pressure them off their front bar to their back bar.(this is the most skilled decision to do)
None of those options work in the conditions being discussed. Not a single one.
Why do all console players seem to think PvP happens with both parties standing in one place and taking turns hitting each other?
All of those options work every time if you use them. I use them dozens of times every night and the only time I have ever died to that combo was from being targeted by multiple players. If you don't want to use the counters fine, but please stop saying they don't work because you're starting to lose all credibility at this point.
Buddy. You must be one of those guys who duels but doesn’t do any real PvP.
Immov pot
FM
Gap close
Dawnbreaker
None of your counters work.
What does work is gap closing the warden gap closing you. Walk through does not work against a decent warden because the sub is timed to hit during the stampede, not at the end.
I don't duel, but I do pvp about 5 hours a day so I've got plenty of experience playing with and against wardens. I've got my magden up to general and I've only lost 3 fights with it which gets to the real problem of the warden, survivability is too good.
Anyway back on subject, so in your case you can't cc them because of fm and immov pot, but you can still gap close them and try to burst them down. No use sitting there waiting 3 seconds after a very obvious skill animation. Sometimes applying pressure is the best defense.
You can also use hot's and block to mitigate some of the damage and if your dieing to just db and sa then your build is too squishy.
As far as walk through or roll dodge through the person goes it works every time. If your close enough then they can't even use the gap closer and if your not close enough you have 3 seconds to react which is plenty of time. Situational awareness is key in any fight.
You can also just go defensive until their cc immunity is up and then do your burst combo while they have to wait to get their ult back up since it's really the combo your complaining about not the actual skill itself.
Point is there are plenty of options to survive this highly telegraphed combo that also relies on an ult to be effective. The only players that pull this off effectively are good players and they are going to be good on whatever class they play on. Sorry I just can't get on board to nerfing a skill that requires cc immunity, gap closer, ult, and someone not paying attention to be effective.
For magden, yes, but not stamden. It’s not a highly telegraphed combo for a stamden in medium and with runspeed pots. I put my shalks down out of LoS, pop an immov / speed pot (with clever alch), and then stampede the target.
It takes a bit of practice to have the shalks land half way through the stampede (as opposed to at the end, which is vulnerable to walk through). But once you get the hang of it, it’s pretty easy to replicate, and the shalks have a very long range which gives a lot of room for error.
TBH nerfing the range of shalks would make them easier to counter when used by a good player.
Aren’t you on PC NA? I feel like we’ve fought before in the BGs or on shor.
I’ll be running an EP 4man in shor doing syncd sub assaults this evening. Now that AOE caps are gone and destro ult’s range is nerfed, wardens are the new kings.
mNBs may disagree with you about who is king and if Templars aren't all bugged up, they may also wanna try for the throne.
But... Skoria on a magden is pretty freaking solid
mNBs and Templars are PBAOE bombers.
Sub assault is much longer range, albeit directional. Stamdens are also much harder to kill.
I’ll try to record some footage tonight. Not sure how it’ll turn out, but I can guess..
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭How to counter sub. assault:
-Dodge roll right before
-Cloak if nightblade
-Stun user and walk left or right
L2P
-It is undodgable and dodge cost stack if used again with-in 5 seconds. Sub assault wins.
-???
-stun has a 5 second cc cooldown and they cast it every 3 seconds... so you have to hope that the latency will not kill you due to the(!!!!!!) 20m range and the cone-like-hit-box.
To be honest the hit box is too wide... if the counter is side-stepping it really doesn't work due to latency.
And it hits as hard as a dawnbreaker initial hit... to top it off. I wish I could spam half a dawnbreaker every 3 seconds and combine it with an actual dawnbreaker+golf swing.Edited by AddictionX on February 15, 2018 8:08PM0 -
Freecry✭✭✭Think it's not the skill the problem
the problem is the combo but you have the same problem with NB combo and sorc combo
the skill even with lag is easy to avoid just move around the warden (in 1vs1 situation) now if you stay in front of ...0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Best opinion so far:
Warden is balanced because you can simply stay away from and not fight it. Classic.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.4 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well, as I understand it the issue @Thogard presented was Sub Assault -> Crit Rush/Stampede -> DBoS -> Execute. The solution to this simply isn’t “stay away” or “try to kite”.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Subterranean Assault hits about as hard as a Dawnbreaker's initial hit. It's also unblockable, undodgeable, applies major fracture and is AoE in addition to being delayed and thus really easy to line up with the rest of your burst.
It's hard not to call it overperforming
In battlegrounds is for sure OP, in 1 vs 1 is OP and in small cyrodiil group or IC PVP its Op1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Subterranean Assault hits about as hard as a Dawnbreaker's initial hit. It's also unblockable, undodgeable, applies major fracture and is AoE in addition to being delayed and thus really easy to line up with the rest of your burst.
It's hard not to call it overperforming
In battlegrounds is for sure OP, in 1 vs 1 is OP and in small cyrodiil group or IC PVP its Op
I Think 1v1 is the only area where it isn’t OP because you will know exactly when the warden will gap close you and when the fight starts.
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Freecry✭✭✭Oh Jesus no 1vs1 isn't op at all.
Subterranassault is too ramdon
you hit a key and you hope that your opponent (3 secons later) will be in the effect's area.
But in a group in front of MG's keep it's fine
.
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