Subterranean Assault Overperforming

Maulkin

I don't see a problem with that picture. I mean if instead of Stampede, Dawnbreaker, Shalk, Executioner you had Crushing Shock, Meteor, Curse, Fury would it have been any different?

Stamdens are bursty. The delayed damage from the Shalks makes them that. In the same way the delayed damage from Curse makes Sorcs bursty.

Bursty classes be bursty.

Waffennacht

@Thogard are you PC or console?

Thogard

Maulkin wrote: »

I don't see a problem with that picture. I mean if instead of Stampede, Dawnbreaker, Shalk, Executioner you had Crushing Shock, Meteor, Curse, Fury would it have been any different?

Stamdens are bursty. The delayed damage from the Shalks makes them that. In the same way the delayed damage from Curse makes Sorcs bursty.

Bursty classes be bursty.

yes. if a sorc casts those four abilities back to back it means they haven't recast their shield. furthermore, it means the sorc was in range for all 4s.

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Thogard are you PC or console?

PC.

Sanctum74

Thogard wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

So a highly telegraphed skill that leaves a ring around the caster till it goes off, can only be used once every 3 seconds(5 seconds in lag), and requires the caster to be facing the opponent when the 3 seconds is up is op and needs to be nerfed!?

I'd suggest the many counters you have available to you, but I have a feeling just like the nerf potion thread, nerf is the only solution.

Again, i want to stress that this post is not directed at the 90% of bad players who tried playing stam warden and couldn't land their shalks.

This is against the 10% of players who were good enough to figure out how to land it without offering a counter.

Just because you can't make it work doesn't mean that other players can't either.

If only 10% can figure out how to land it effectively and only 10% can counter it against a good player then that's how it should be when you fight a good player.

I have no problem landing a combo, avoiding it, or just keeping my buffs and heal over times up at all times so that I am always ready if an enemy hits me with a burst combo from any class.

Instead of calling for a nerf, try to figure out what you did wrong and what they did right and learn from it. That's how you become a better player.

Maybe a roll dodge, immovability pot, rally, vigor, shield, healing ward, mutagen, shuffle, more health or resistance, etc would have given you enough of an edge to stay in the game.

The only thing in this game that is op and does not have a counter is lag and I don't think they will be nerfing lag anytime soon.

Maulkin

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I don't see a problem with that picture. I mean if instead of Stampede, Dawnbreaker, Shalk, Executioner you had Crushing Shock, Meteor, Curse, Fury would it have been any different?

Stamdens are bursty. The delayed damage from the Shalks makes them that. In the same way the delayed damage from Curse makes Sorcs bursty.

Bursty classes be bursty.

yes. if a sorc casts those four abilities back to back it means they haven't recast their shield. furthermore, it means the sorc was in range for all 4s.

Takes 4 seconds to fire 4 instant abilities and the shields last 6. Also "in range", a Sorc can pull that combo off from 28m away, the Stamden has to be with 5 meters for the Dawnbreaker and Executioner to hit.

I'm sorry what was your point again?

Lexxypwns

Waffennacht wrote: »

Have you ran warden? Do you know what would happen if the only burst damage component of a class was removed?

Why even be a stamden? You get so very little

Stamden is hands down the best pvp spec in the game. A 10% nerf to sub assault damage would still let you "1 shot" squishies with a bird-sub-DB combo but wouldn't devastate the class.

And yes, I've played stamden

Waffennacht

@Thogard actually I am now watching videos of PC gameplay and it's almost an entirely different game.

Example: on console, to choose a potion it requires both thumbs to navigate the cursor, meaning all motion and camera etc completely stops for a player, while on PC because of your options characters can continue to move

On console, if you watch any player use abilities, you'll notice abilities being hit 2 or 3 times to get it to register, this is not needed on PC

On console our buffs and debuffs and visual ques are far more difficult to distinguish, our buff tracker is far smaller and in very inconvenient location

Our cursor controls are much slower, our abilities fire less reliably.

I'm thinking the difficulty level against other players will be higher with PC E.G. far more Shalks will land on PC than Console.

The only option we have to improve our experience is to use an elite controller ( I don't have one)

You'll experience much better bursts, more correctly aimed abilities.

I think PC experience is so different that regarding balancing issues they need to be addressed individually

Thogard

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I don't see a problem with that picture. I mean if instead of Stampede, Dawnbreaker, Shalk, Executioner you had Crushing Shock, Meteor, Curse, Fury would it have been any different?

Stamdens are bursty. The delayed damage from the Shalks makes them that. In the same way the delayed damage from Curse makes Sorcs bursty.

Bursty classes be bursty.

yes. if a sorc casts those four abilities back to back it means they haven't recast their shield. furthermore, it means the sorc was in range for all 4s.

Takes 4 seconds to fire 4 instant abilities and the shields last 6. Also "in range", a Sorc can pull that combo off from 28m away, the Stamden has to be with 5 meters for the Dawnbreaker and Executioner to hit.

I'm sorry what was your point again?

The sorc is vulnerable to gap close, CC, and attack the whole time. the warden lines up shalks out of LOS and out of range. Its completely different, and if you cant understand that then there's no point in us continuing this dialogue.

The closest comparable skill to the stam warden's shalks is the proxy det from arcane university red portals.

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Thogard actually I am now watching videos of PC gameplay and it's almost an entirely different game.

Example: on console, to choose a potion it requires both thumbs to navigate the cursor, meaning all motion and camera etc completely stops for a player, while on PC because of your options characters can continue to move

On console, if you watch any player use abilities, you'll notice abilities being hit 2 or 3 times to get it to register, this is not needed on PC

On console our buffs and debuffs and visual ques are far more difficult to distinguish, our buff tracker is far smaller and in very inconvenient location

Our cursor controls are much slower, our abilities fire less reliably.

I'm thinking the difficulty level against other players will be higher with PC E.G. far more Shalks will land on PC than Console.

The only option we have to improve our experience is to use an elite controller ( I don't have one)

You'll experience much better bursts, more correctly aimed abilities.

I think PC experience is so different that regarding balancing issues they need to be addressed individually

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Thogard actually I am now watching videos of PC gameplay and it's almost an entirely different game.

Example: on console, to choose a potion it requires both thumbs to navigate the cursor, meaning all motion and camera etc completely stops for a player, while on PC because of your options characters can continue to move

On console, if you watch any player use abilities, you'll notice abilities being hit 2 or 3 times to get it to register, this is not needed on PC

On console our buffs and debuffs and visual ques are far more difficult to distinguish, our buff tracker is far smaller and in very inconvenient location

Our cursor controls are much slower, our abilities fire less reliably.

I'm thinking the difficulty level against other players will be higher with PC E.G. far more Shalks will land on PC than Console.

The only option we have to improve our experience is to use an elite controller ( I don't have one)

You'll experience much better bursts, more correctly aimed abilities.

I think PC experience is so different that regarding balancing issues they need to be addressed individually

I dont think i could play effectively on console - the whole "cant rotate character faster than joystick" thing would drive me insane. everyone would just walkthrough all the wrecking blows, flurries, jabs, etc, since i couldn't do a 180 fast enough with joystick.

Watching console vids is always weird to me. I know the combat isnt slower, but the camera certainly moves slower and it gives a sense that the overall combat is slower (which it isn't).

but certain defensive maneuvers like walkthrough or stepping forwards into a charge wont work on PC b/c mouse tracks faster.

Maulkin

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I don't see a problem with that picture. I mean if instead of Stampede, Dawnbreaker, Shalk, Executioner you had Crushing Shock, Meteor, Curse, Fury would it have been any different?

Stamdens are bursty. The delayed damage from the Shalks makes them that. In the same way the delayed damage from Curse makes Sorcs bursty.

Bursty classes be bursty.

yes. if a sorc casts those four abilities back to back it means they haven't recast their shield. furthermore, it means the sorc was in range for all 4s.

Takes 4 seconds to fire 4 instant abilities and the shields last 6. Also "in range", a Sorc can pull that combo off from 28m away, the Stamden has to be with 5 meters for the Dawnbreaker and Executioner to hit.

I'm sorry what was your point again?

The sorc is vulnerable to gap close, CC, and attack the whole time. the warden lines up shalks out of LOS and out of range. Its completely different, and if you cant understand that then there's no point in us continuing this dialogue.

The closest comparable skill to the stam warden's shalks is the proxy det from arcane university red portals.

Indeed there's no point to discuss, because you have no point to make.

WreckfulAbandon

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I don't see a problem with that picture. I mean if instead of Stampede, Dawnbreaker, Shalk, Executioner you had Crushing Shock, Meteor, Curse, Fury would it have been any different?

Stamdens are bursty. The delayed damage from the Shalks makes them that. In the same way the delayed damage from Curse makes Sorcs bursty.

Bursty classes be bursty.

yes. if a sorc casts those four abilities back to back it means they haven't recast their shield. furthermore, it means the sorc was in range for all 4s.

Takes 4 seconds to fire 4 instant abilities and the shields last 6. Also "in range", a Sorc can pull that combo off from 28m away, the Stamden has to be with 5 meters for the Dawnbreaker and Executioner to hit.

I'm sorry what was your point again?

The sorc is vulnerable to gap close, CC, and attack the whole time. the warden lines up shalks out of LOS and out of range. Its completely different, and if you cant understand that then there's no point in us continuing this dialogue.

The closest comparable skill to the stam warden's shalks is the proxy det from arcane university red portals.

Indeed there's no point to discuss, because you have no point to make.

Right, those permablocking Msorcs sure are a problem...

Thogard

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I don't see a problem with that picture. I mean if instead of Stampede, Dawnbreaker, Shalk, Executioner you had Crushing Shock, Meteor, Curse, Fury would it have been any different?

Stamdens are bursty. The delayed damage from the Shalks makes them that. In the same way the delayed damage from Curse makes Sorcs bursty.

Bursty classes be bursty.

yes. if a sorc casts those four abilities back to back it means they haven't recast their shield. furthermore, it means the sorc was in range for all 4s.

Takes 4 seconds to fire 4 instant abilities and the shields last 6. Also "in range", a Sorc can pull that combo off from 28m away, the Stamden has to be with 5 meters for the Dawnbreaker and Executioner to hit.

I'm sorry what was your point again?

The sorc is vulnerable to gap close, CC, and attack the whole time. the warden lines up shalks out of LOS and out of range. Its completely different, and if you cant understand that then there's no point in us continuing this dialogue.

The closest comparable skill to the stam warden's shalks is the proxy det from arcane university red portals.

Indeed there's no point to discuss, because you have no point to make.

Right, those permablocking Msorcs sure are a problem...

actually they are... but very few people know about it yet. but it'll be "meta" soon. it has to do with purposely picking up one of the destro passives and purposely avoiding a different one...

but i doubt that that's what the poster you were quoting was referring to

WreckfulAbandon

Thogard wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I don't see a problem with that picture. I mean if instead of Stampede, Dawnbreaker, Shalk, Executioner you had Crushing Shock, Meteor, Curse, Fury would it have been any different?

Stamdens are bursty. The delayed damage from the Shalks makes them that. In the same way the delayed damage from Curse makes Sorcs bursty.

Bursty classes be bursty.

yes. if a sorc casts those four abilities back to back it means they haven't recast their shield. furthermore, it means the sorc was in range for all 4s.

Takes 4 seconds to fire 4 instant abilities and the shields last 6. Also "in range", a Sorc can pull that combo off from 28m away, the Stamden has to be with 5 meters for the Dawnbreaker and Executioner to hit.

I'm sorry what was your point again?

The sorc is vulnerable to gap close, CC, and attack the whole time. the warden lines up shalks out of LOS and out of range. Its completely different, and if you cant understand that then there's no point in us continuing this dialogue.

The closest comparable skill to the stam warden's shalks is the proxy det from arcane university red portals.

Indeed there's no point to discuss, because you have no point to make.

Right, those permablocking Msorcs sure are a problem...

actually they are... but very few people know about it yet. but it'll be "meta" soon. it has to do with purposely picking up one of the destro passives and purposely avoiding a different one...

Regardless, the problem is with the permablock mechanic. He said "bursty classes be bursty" which I generally agree with, but when you throw permablock into the mix it's more like "tanky class be bursty."

Thogard

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I don't see a problem with that picture. I mean if instead of Stampede, Dawnbreaker, Shalk, Executioner you had Crushing Shock, Meteor, Curse, Fury would it have been any different?

Stamdens are bursty. The delayed damage from the Shalks makes them that. In the same way the delayed damage from Curse makes Sorcs bursty.

Bursty classes be bursty.

yes. if a sorc casts those four abilities back to back it means they haven't recast their shield. furthermore, it means the sorc was in range for all 4s.

Takes 4 seconds to fire 4 instant abilities and the shields last 6. Also "in range", a Sorc can pull that combo off from 28m away, the Stamden has to be with 5 meters for the Dawnbreaker and Executioner to hit.

I'm sorry what was your point again?

The sorc is vulnerable to gap close, CC, and attack the whole time. the warden lines up shalks out of LOS and out of range. Its completely different, and if you cant understand that then there's no point in us continuing this dialogue.

The closest comparable skill to the stam warden's shalks is the proxy det from arcane university red portals.

Indeed there's no point to discuss, because you have no point to make.

Right, those permablocking Msorcs sure are a problem...

actually they are... but very few people know about it yet. but it'll be "meta" soon. it has to do with purposely picking up one of the destro passives and purposely avoiding a different one...

Regardless, the problem is with the permablock mechanic. He said "bursty classes be bursty" which I generally agree with, but when you throw permablock into the mix it's more like "tanky class be bursty."

agreed. and cant forget about the healing

Waffennacht

I'm going to say I would Love for this change:

Shalks requires a target, but auto aims

Edit: @Thogard you're also correct about wrecking blow etc with the camera, makes hitting without a CC soft or hard impossible

Maulkin

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I don't see a problem with that picture. I mean if instead of Stampede, Dawnbreaker, Shalk, Executioner you had Crushing Shock, Meteor, Curse, Fury would it have been any different?

Stamdens are bursty. The delayed damage from the Shalks makes them that. In the same way the delayed damage from Curse makes Sorcs bursty.

Bursty classes be bursty.

yes. if a sorc casts those four abilities back to back it means they haven't recast their shield. furthermore, it means the sorc was in range for all 4s.

Takes 4 seconds to fire 4 instant abilities and the shields last 6. Also "in range", a Sorc can pull that combo off from 28m away, the Stamden has to be with 5 meters for the Dawnbreaker and Executioner to hit.

I'm sorry what was your point again?

The sorc is vulnerable to gap close, CC, and attack the whole time. the warden lines up shalks out of LOS and out of range. Its completely different, and if you cant understand that then there's no point in us continuing this dialogue.

The closest comparable skill to the stam warden's shalks is the proxy det from arcane university red portals.

Indeed there's no point to discuss, because you have no point to make.

Right, those permablocking Msorcs sure are a problem...

Ah so the goal posts have moved to talking about perma-blocking now. Buddy, the topic is about Wardens and Subterrean Assault. Permablocking is not a Warden exclusivity. All classes can build a permablocking stam tank and at least 3 (if not 4) can build a magicka tank.

olsborg

Only issues I have with it (and any skill of the warden) is that all class-dmg is undodgeable and the subassault hits through LOS, walls, floors, terrain etc. That needs to be adressed.

Lexxypwns

@Waffennacht I've played both. The difference in gameplay isn't as much as you make it out to be.

Sub assault is ridiculously strong tho

Solariken

Agree with OP, Sub Assault is one of the several ways ZOS really screwed the pooch with Warden and PvP design/balance.

The current mechanic is acceptable for Deep Fissure on magicka Warden as it can't be worked easily into a 1-shot combo. They can still set up a super dangerous damage combo, but one that allows counterplay.

Sub Assault is off the damned chain though. The size of the AoE and Major Fracture/Breach are fine, but it's too much instant damage on top of all that (plus free heals and ult gen!). Since it deals poison damage, it would be more balanced and thematically appropriate to put that damage into a DOT (maybe 6 second duration).

Thogard

Solariken wrote: »

Agree with OP, Sub Assault is one of the several ways ZOS really screwed the pooch with Warden and PvP design/balance.

The current mechanic is acceptable for Deep Fissure on magicka Warden as it can't be worked easily into a 1-shot combo. They can still set up a super dangerous damage combo, but one that allows counterplay.

Sub Assault is off the damned chain though. The size of the AoE and Major Fracture/Breach are fine, but it's too much instant damage on top of all that (plus free heals and ult gen!). Since it deals poison damage, it would be more balanced and thematically appropriate to put that damage into a DOT (maybe 6 second duration).

I'd totally be OK with it being a dot. Even if they made it conal and increased the total damage to make the PvE'ers happy.

SodanTok

Thogard wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Agree with OP, Sub Assault is one of the several ways ZOS really screwed the pooch with Warden and PvP design/balance.

The current mechanic is acceptable for Deep Fissure on magicka Warden as it can't be worked easily into a 1-shot combo. They can still set up a super dangerous damage combo, but one that allows counterplay.

Sub Assault is off the damned chain though. The size of the AoE and Major Fracture/Breach are fine, but it's too much instant damage on top of all that (plus free heals and ult gen!). Since it deals poison damage, it would be more balanced and thematically appropriate to put that damage into a DOT (maybe 6 second duration).

I'd totally be OK with it being a dot. Even if they made it conal and increased the total damage to make the PvE'ers happy.

Sure you would be. You dont play warden lol.

I disagree with everything you said except the gapcloser combo. That part I agree with is maybe too strong, because it always guarantees hit without caster doing anything. But as someone that do not uses this combo I can speak for everyone else that any way that nerfs the burst potential of warden for us (non gapclosing folks) would just kill the class.

P.S. It does not outdamages dawnbreaker, nor something like crystal frag or dizzy swing.

Waffennacht

@Lexxypwns maybe it's my awesomely amazing and well worth it (/sarcasm) Comcast internet

Edit: stupid auto correct

WreckfulAbandon

Maulkin wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

I don't see a problem with that picture. I mean if instead of Stampede, Dawnbreaker, Shalk, Executioner you had Crushing Shock, Meteor, Curse, Fury would it have been any different?

Stamdens are bursty. The delayed damage from the Shalks makes them that. In the same way the delayed damage from Curse makes Sorcs bursty.

Bursty classes be bursty.

yes. if a sorc casts those four abilities back to back it means they haven't recast their shield. furthermore, it means the sorc was in range for all 4s.

Takes 4 seconds to fire 4 instant abilities and the shields last 6. Also "in range", a Sorc can pull that combo off from 28m away, the Stamden has to be with 5 meters for the Dawnbreaker and Executioner to hit.

I'm sorry what was your point again?

The sorc is vulnerable to gap close, CC, and attack the whole time. the warden lines up shalks out of LOS and out of range. Its completely different, and if you cant understand that then there's no point in us continuing this dialogue.

The closest comparable skill to the stam warden's shalks is the proxy det from arcane university red portals.

Indeed there's no point to discuss, because you have no point to make.

Right, those permablocking Msorcs sure are a problem...

Ah so the goal posts have moved to talking about perma-blocking now. Buddy, the topic is about Wardens and Subterrean Assault. Permablocking is not a Warden exclusivity. All classes can build a permablocking stam tank and at least 3 (if not 4) can build a magicka tank.

Right but everything contributing to the over performing nature of Shalks is fair game, or so I thought. On permablocking, sure everyone can do it, but only Stamplar and Stamblade have similar burst potential as Stamden. But not nearly the same group utility of Stamden, not even heals on Stamplar (lol).

Also Stamdens can permablock with that netch so they do it more effectively than anyone else. And have the most lethal burst combo. And amazing heals. Gotta look at everything.

Waffennacht

Also, what class can I play more than 1 dlc before the nerf threads show up? I wanna play the class that's not being nerfed

DDuke

Thogard wrote: »

It's getting ridiculous. We're seeing more and more of it.

Too many people running one-round KO stam warden builds. And they all run the same thing... stampede, dawnbreaker, beetles, and reverse slice.

Subterranean assault needs to be a 1s channel like dark flare currently is. Giving that much burst to an ability that doesn't do its damage on the global cooldown (and stun and fracture) is just a bad idea. But to give it to the class with the best pvp healing and the best pvp sustain is absurd.

Ive been posting here for over a year.. never made a QQ post.

And for those who say "Oh its telegraphed, learn to play!" yeah, the bad wardens do that. I'm talking about the good ones that activate beetles and pop an immov pot out of range, then stampede on top of you right before beetles triggers. unless youre running javelin on templar there is 0 counterplay other than dodgerolling the stampede...

Oh yeah and they have major heroism through shimmering shield, so they can do this about every 15s...

It blows my mind that this ability hasn't been nerfed yet. And thats not even factoring in the whole "ignore the Z axis" element of it. Always fun to be playing BGs in arcane university and get dropped by a beetle being cast by someone two floors above you.

Here's a pic.... but lets not pretend you don't know exactly what im talking about. Just watch kodi's stream for 10min.

its a combo that kills most players in about 1.1s (not counting the stampede travel time). Thats ridiculous.

Everyone who doesn't already have one is making a stam warden on the 2x XP event next week.



EDIT: and in case you cant tell, that is in no CP battlegrounds. Its even worse in CP.

It's a strong combo for sure... but can't you just block the DBOS+Shalks (stam morph doesn't have a stun btw) & dodge the Reverse Slice follow up?

If it's perfectly timed with Stampede I guess that can be difficult, but in that scenario I'd say my opponent "deserves" to land that combo.


...
In any case, the damage is pretty much the same as stamblade Cloak->Heavy Attack+SA->Incap and pretty much as difficult/easy to land I'd say.

Waffennacht

Ok I do want everyone to see this

Kodi is running the META sets that Every META Stam player runs.

Seven Legion and or etc etc

There's a reason every meta player runs these sets, the above thread is all about it.

But I'll let you know right now

Kodi's Build, that build on any class Cannot win against @RouDeR 's build and it Cannot win against @Lexxypwns build (without saying too much)

That build would have to retreat to stay alive. I know the Wardens tool kit and I know all 3 builds intimately now.

It'll destroy 75% of the population, but is completely vulnerable to other builds.

Edit: 1v1

Lexxypwns

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ok I do want everyone to see this

Kodi is running the META sets that Every META Stam player runs.

Seven Legion and or etc etc

There's a reason every meta player runs these sets, the above thread is all about it.

But I'll let you know right now

Kodi's Build, that build on any class Cannot win against @RouDeR 's build and it Cannot win against @Lexxypwns build (without saying too much)

That build would have to retreat to stay alive. I know the Wardens tool kit and I know all 3 builds intimately now.

It'll destroy 75% of the population, but is completely vulnerable to other builds.

Edit: 1v1

And the fact that my build is only magden instead of stamden because woe is cheaper than caltrops?

Vaoh

LOL. This is incredible.

So Warden is absolutely horrible in PvE. Magicka Warden is atrocious. Warden tank is much weaker than a DK and unwanted - groups would rather take almost any other tank before a Warden.
However, they are okay at Stamina DPS (thanks to Subterranean Assault's DPS+utlility) as well as Healing thanks to Secluded Grove (which they shouldn't use in trials but that's different story). Next patch they are nerfing the HoT on Secluded Grove, meaning that the Warden Healer is even farther behind a Templar Healer than before and Healing is honestly out the window if it wasn't already before.

This leaves a Stamina Warden DPS as the singular role that a Warden can choose without totally being a liability to the group, even though anyone who has been a part of any decent group understands you will take any other Stamina DPS before looking at the Warden. Now people are asking to nerf Subterranean Assault.

Are we ever going to fix this class or is it just going to remain a never-ending cycle of bad PvPers qqing that Kodi or Sypher killed them therefore nerf the entire class?

Lexxypwns

Vaoh wrote: »

LOL. This is incredible.

So Warden is absolutely horrible in PvE. Magicka Warden is atrocious. Warden tank is much weaker than a DK and unwanted - groups would rather take almost any other tank before a Warden.
However, they are okay at Stamina DPS (thanks to Subterranean Assault's DPS+utlility) as well as Healing thanks to Secluded Grove (which they shouldn't use in trials but that's different story). Next patch they are nerfing the HoT on Secluded Grove, meaning that the Warden Healer is even farther behind a Templar Healer than before and Healing is honestly out the window if it wasn't already before.

This leaves a Stamina Warden DPS as the singular role that a Warden can choose without totally being a liability to the group, even though anyone who has been a part of any decent group understands you will take any other Stamina DPS before looking at the Warden. Now people are asking to nerf Subterranean Assault.

Are we ever going to fix this class or is it just going to remain a never-ending cycle of bad PvPers qqing that Kodi or Sypher killed them therefore nerf the entire class?

Excuse me? Now I'm a bad PvPer because I have a brain, can pick up a warden in very basic gear, and drop 20k aoe burst and realize that's too strong?

The Pve buffs to make warden competitive are fairly obvious and have nothing to do with the core Pvp toolkit.

Nerfing sub assault 10% isn't going to break the class for PVE if ZoS just ties the correct pve buffs in with this nerf then overall they should perform better in PvE than on live.