The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
We will be performing maintenance for patch 10.0.2 on the PTS on Monday at 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC).
PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Nightblades
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CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
Sorry but you are putting way to much stock into "animation canceling" in this regard. Yes it will be nice to mask the bow firing animation, making it harder to react to in melee range but the projectile travel speed is not changed and thus this will have little actual effect from 20+ meters. Animation canceling isnt going to do anything for you outside of masking the bow firing animation. You will not be speeding anything up and macros are DEFINITELY not going to do you any favors here lol.
The animation cancelling is not about masking the animation, it's about how close together you can get the the bow and incap to hit. It will absolutely change how tight your burst can be. This change will enable you to simultaneously hit both the bow and incap (or another ulti) in many more situations than currently possible. The trick is to not fire it from 20 meters away.
I guess you didn’t comprehend my comment about macros. I know they won’t do any favors. My point was, jokingly, that people will complain more about macros and animation cancelling due to how fast they will drop from an instant assassin’s will when its used right.exeeter702 wrote: »If you think an offensively well built templar or warden isnt as much of a threat as a nb than i dont know what to say. If you believe for some silly arbitrary reason that only templars and wardens should be allowed to build into a strong healer than you have a lot to learn about how the game is designed.
Unless of course your hyperbolic jibberish is pure sarcasm.
Everything in this game can be a threat, I personally think the classes are quite balanced. Idk why you're putting words in my mouth other than the fact that youre not very good at rhetoric or debate.
That being said, nothing has as much potential burst damage as a nightblade. They have both the quickest and also the hardest hitting offensive profile. That’s literally what burst damage is….chaining hard hitting abilities together quickly. Both aspects NBs excel at. Nightblades also have the strongest damage modifiers in the game as well. That’s not even a matter of opinion guy, It’s something you can look up the numbers on.
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IxSTALKERxI✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah to be honest I'm not sure how you would go about making agony fit in with the games content. Such a unique skill.
____________________
The only other way I can think of to go about it would to make it some kind of damage shield instead of heal as damage shields are generally good in some pve content and pvp and would help cover up your missing health. Would also make it more viable on stamina builds. It would need to either hit 2 targets (yourself and ally) or cast multiple small shields over a duration that can possibly stack?
^ Take this suggestion with a grain of salt though haha. Someone is probably bound to point out a flaw with this idea. Oh and it's probably too soon to even know for sure if the current version of the skill is any good or not. Some people say previous version was better etc.Edited by IxSTALKERxI on October 3, 2017 9:23PMNA | PC | Aldmeri DominionLaser Eyes AR 26 Arcanist | Stalker V AR 41 Warden | I Stalker I AR 42 NB | Stalkersaurus AR 31 Templar | Stalker Ill AR 31 Sorc | Nigel the Great of BlackwaterFormer Emperor x11 campaign cyclesVenatus Officer | RIP RÁGE | YouTube Channel0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
Sorry but you are putting way to much stock into "animation canceling" in this regard. Yes it will be nice to mask the bow firing animation, making it harder to react to in melee range but the projectile travel speed is not changed and thus this will have little actual effect from 20+ meters. Animation canceling isnt going to do anything for you outside of masking the bow firing animation. You will not be speeding anything up and macros are DEFINITELY not going to do you any favors here lol.
The animation cancelling is not about masking the animation, it's about how close together you can get the the bow and incap to hit. It will absolutely change how tight your burst can be. This change will enable you to simultaneously hit both the bow and incap (or another ulti) in many more situations than currently possible. The trick is to not fire it from 20 meters away.
I guess you didn’t comprehend my comment about macros. I know they won’t do any favors. My point was, jokingly, that people will complain more about macros and animation cancelling due to how fast they will drop from an instant assassin’s will when its used right.exeeter702 wrote: »If you think an offensively well built templar or warden isnt as much of a threat as a nb than i dont know what to say. If you believe for some silly arbitrary reason that only templars and wardens should be allowed to build into a strong healer than you have a lot to learn about how the game is designed.
Unless of course your hyperbolic jibberish is pure sarcasm.
Everything in this game can be a threat, I personally think the classes are quite balanced. Idk why you're putting words in my mouth other than the fact that youre not very good at rhetoric or debate.
That being said, nothing has as much potential burst damage as a nightblade. They have both the quickest and also the hardest hitting offensive profile. That’s literally what burst damage is….chaining hard hitting abilities together quickly. Both aspects NBs excel at. Nightblades also have the strongest damage modifiers in the game as well. That’s not even a matter of opinion guy, It’s something you can look up the numbers on.
Im not sure what you are trying to get at nor do i really want to get into the mud with you on this but oh well..
You hit assasins will and once the GCD refreshes, you hit incap, no amount of animation canceling is going to shorten the gcd or allow you to circumvent it entirely. Prior to this change, the cast time on assasins will was nearly identical to the GCD so the window in which you would activate AW and an ult is entirely unchanged with AW being instant cast. The only differences now are that you are able to take an action that is off the GCD such as roll dodge, block or bar swap without losing AW since there is no longer a cast time. And the burst combo is actually marginally WORSE as far as possible reaction time is concerned simply because prior to this change, AW cast time pushed the resolution point of the skill slightly to the end of the GCD (100ms) which meant that by the time it fires, the GCD is 10 percent in and you can go into an ult or impale or whatever that much sooner. Animation canceling in no way shape or form will allow you to string 2 consecutive abilities together faster than the games GCD will allow. Competent players use abilities right off the GCD regardless, which causes the byproduct of "animation canceling" to even be a thing.
The 20 meter comment was specifically made because of the fact that at melee range little has changed and you are not reacting to it at melee range regardless. But at 20 meters which is a rough range of which you can see and react to the projectile it will be harder since you can block, bar swap or roll and they wont see the bow firing animation... curious then is it that the latest PTS has nerfed the projectile speed?
Assasins Will cast =100ms
Global Cool Down =1000ms
Cast time removed, projectile speed reduced by 10%
You are not going to fire the bow and use another skill, including an ULT since ults obey the GCD, within any smaller a window than 2 seconds front to back.
1=Assasins Will activation(triggering cast time)
2(*)=Assasins Will bow fire
3=Incap
*=100ms
We are going from this:
1*2(*)*******3
To this:
2**********3
Edited by exeeter702 on October 4, 2017 1:25AM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
Sorry but you are putting way to much stock into "animation canceling" in this regard. Yes it will be nice to mask the bow firing animation, making it harder to react to in melee range but the projectile travel speed is not changed and thus this will have little actual effect from 20+ meters. Animation canceling isnt going to do anything for you outside of masking the bow firing animation. You will not be speeding anything up and macros are DEFINITELY not going to do you any favors here lol.
The animation cancelling is not about masking the animation, it's about how close together you can get the the bow and incap to hit. It will absolutely change how tight your burst can be. This change will enable you to simultaneously hit both the bow and incap (or another ulti) in many more situations than currently possible. The trick is to not fire it from 20 meters away.
I guess you didn’t comprehend my comment about macros. I know they won’t do any favors. My point was, jokingly, that people will complain more about macros and animation cancelling due to how fast they will drop from an instant assassin’s will when its used right.exeeter702 wrote: »If you think an offensively well built templar or warden isnt as much of a threat as a nb than i dont know what to say. If you believe for some silly arbitrary reason that only templars and wardens should be allowed to build into a strong healer than you have a lot to learn about how the game is designed.
Unless of course your hyperbolic jibberish is pure sarcasm.
Everything in this game can be a threat, I personally think the classes are quite balanced. Idk why you're putting words in my mouth other than the fact that youre not very good at rhetoric or debate.
That being said, nothing has as much potential burst damage as a nightblade. They have both the quickest and also the hardest hitting offensive profile. That’s literally what burst damage is….chaining hard hitting abilities together quickly. Both aspects NBs excel at. Nightblades also have the strongest damage modifiers in the game as well. That’s not even a matter of opinion guy, It’s something you can look up the numbers on.
Im not sure what you are trying to get at nor do i really want to get into the mud with you on this but oh well..
You hit assasins will and once the GCD refreshes, you hit incap, no amount of animation canceling is going to shorten the gcd or allow you to circumvent it entirely. Prior to this change, the cast time on assasins will was nearly identical to the GCD so the window in which you would activate AW and an ult is entirely unchanged with AW being instant cast. The only differences now are that you are able to take an action that is off the GCD such as roll dodge, block or bar swap without losing AW since there is no longer a cast time. And the burst combo is actually marginally WORSE as far as possible reaction time is concerned simply because prior to this change, AW cast time pushed the resolution point of the skill slightly to the end of the GCD (100ms) which meant that by the time it fires, the GCD is 10 percent in and you can go into an ult or impale or whatever that much sooner. Animation canceling in no way shape or form will allow you to string 2 consecutive abilities together faster than the games GCD will allow. Competent players use abilities right off the GCD regardless, which causes the byproduct of "animation canceling" to even be a thing.
The 20 meter comment was specifically made because of the fact that at melee range little has changed and you are not reacting to it at melee range regardless. But at 20 meters which is a rough range of which you can see and react to the projectile it will be harder since you can block, bar swap or roll and they wont see the bow firing animation... curious then is it that the latest PTS has nerfed the projectile speed?
Assasins Will cast =100ms
Global Cool Down =1000ms
Cast time removed, projectile speed reduced by 10%
You are not going to fire the bow and use another skill, including an ULT since ults obey the GCD, within any smaller a window than 2 seconds front to back.
1=Assasins Will activation(triggering cast time)
2(*)=Assasins Will bow fire
3=Incap
*=100ms
We are going from this:
1*2(*)*******3
To this:
2**********3
To be fair, it's very deadly now the other way around (Incap->AW) - very hard to CC break & dodge in time.
Though I'm a EU player, so it might be still possible to CC break->dodge roll without the latency.
Maybe some NA player could test that on PTS?0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
Sorry but you are putting way to much stock into "animation canceling" in this regard. Yes it will be nice to mask the bow firing animation, making it harder to react to in melee range but the projectile travel speed is not changed and thus this will have little actual effect from 20+ meters. Animation canceling isnt going to do anything for you outside of masking the bow firing animation. You will not be speeding anything up and macros are DEFINITELY not going to do you any favors here lol.
The animation cancelling is not about masking the animation, it's about how close together you can get the the bow and incap to hit. It will absolutely change how tight your burst can be. This change will enable you to simultaneously hit both the bow and incap (or another ulti) in many more situations than currently possible. The trick is to not fire it from 20 meters away.
I guess you didn’t comprehend my comment about macros. I know they won’t do any favors. My point was, jokingly, that people will complain more about macros and animation cancelling due to how fast they will drop from an instant assassin’s will when its used right.exeeter702 wrote: »If you think an offensively well built templar or warden isnt as much of a threat as a nb than i dont know what to say. If you believe for some silly arbitrary reason that only templars and wardens should be allowed to build into a strong healer than you have a lot to learn about how the game is designed.
Unless of course your hyperbolic jibberish is pure sarcasm.
Everything in this game can be a threat, I personally think the classes are quite balanced. Idk why you're putting words in my mouth other than the fact that youre not very good at rhetoric or debate.
That being said, nothing has as much potential burst damage as a nightblade. They have both the quickest and also the hardest hitting offensive profile. That’s literally what burst damage is….chaining hard hitting abilities together quickly. Both aspects NBs excel at. Nightblades also have the strongest damage modifiers in the game as well. That’s not even a matter of opinion guy, It’s something you can look up the numbers on.
Im not sure what you are trying to get at nor do i really want to get into the mud with you on this but oh well..
You hit assasins will and once the GCD refreshes, you hit incap, no amount of animation canceling is going to shorten the gcd or allow you to circumvent it entirely. Prior to this change, the cast time on assasins will was nearly identical to the GCD so the window in which you would activate AW and an ult is entirely unchanged with AW being instant cast. The only differences now are that you are able to take an action that is off the GCD such as roll dodge, block or bar swap without losing AW since there is no longer a cast time. And the burst combo is actually marginally WORSE as far as possible reaction time is concerned simply because prior to this change, AW cast time pushed the resolution point of the skill slightly to the end of the GCD (100ms) which meant that by the time it fires, the GCD is 10 percent in and you can go into an ult or impale or whatever that much sooner. Animation canceling in no way shape or form will allow you to string 2 consecutive abilities together faster than the games GCD will allow. Competent players use abilities right off the GCD regardless, which causes the byproduct of "animation canceling" to even be a thing.
The 20 meter comment was specifically made because of the fact that at melee range little has changed and you are not reacting to it at melee range regardless. But at 20 meters which is a rough range of which you can see and react to the projectile it will be harder since you can block, bar swap or roll and they wont see the bow firing animation... curious then is it that the latest PTS has nerfed the projectile speed?
Assasins Will cast =100ms
Global Cool Down =1000ms
Cast time removed, projectile speed reduced by 10%
You are not going to fire the bow and use another skill, including an ULT since ults obey the GCD, within any smaller a window than 2 seconds front to back.
1=Assasins Will activation(triggering cast time)
2(*)=Assasins Will bow fire
3=Incap
*=100ms
We are going from this:
1*2(*)*******3
To this:
2**********3
To be fair, it's very deadly now the other way around (Incap->AW) - very hard to CC break & dodge in time.
Though I'm a EU player, so it might be still possible to CC break->dodge roll without the latency.
Maybe some NA player could test that on PTS?
Oh for sure, i was using that order just as an example.0 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭re the new agony:
This is a very unique skill, it is the only one I am ware of that actually puts the casting in more danger when it's cast. (Although maybe guard can be considered the same?) It's undergoing some pretty radical/major tweaks at the moment which is not at all suprising considering it's the first skill in the game to have a health cost.
Other skills are mostly about converting a resource (stamina or magicka) into something else, like health or damage. Rather than directly converting health to health (this will either be efficient or not and thus slotted or not) maybe it should look at converting health to damage/resources, specifically for the group rather than a single target. It could pump out an AE group blast of lifesteal for x seconds? The morphs could add either magicka or stamina steal for a shorter duration. This adds group utility to the class too. The 'steal' effect fits in with the siphoning tree extremely well, or atleast the image it has in my head.
providing 'steal' effects with a fixed return value also mean that NB healers might end up popping a few more points into their health pool as they don't scale with magicka/stamina.
Aeo
Edited by aeowulf on October 4, 2017 8:44AM0 -
zammo✭✭✭@ZOS_Wrobel
Malevolent/Healthy/Shrewd Offering.
First of all, I can only speak from a PVP DPS point of view. Also, as I understand it, in PVP the damage isn't affected by battle spirit, but the heal is. I presume this is an oversight, and not intended, so what I write assumes that this is corrected further down the line so we get the true heal in PVP.
The skill in it's first iteration, I would have used; the skill as it is now, I couldn't touch.
I'm a mageblade in light armour. I build enough health into my setup to be able to survive being attacked, and react. Often I'll get taken to <5k health before I can pop a shield, then set a HoT running to bring my health back up. With the latest update, I could not rely on this skill as I might not even be able to cast it.
This is of course specific to how I would use the skill. I read nightblade healers saying how this change is better for them, and that of course is great.
My point here is that we have two morphs. Why not for example leave Healthy Offering in it's first iteration with the DoT and HoT, and have Shrewd Offering in it's newer form with the up front damage and HoT?2 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭There should be more bonuses / rewards for using this health cost skill. Just having minor mending is not enough imo for the damage it does to the caster. Healthy gives out minor mending and a bonus splash heal at the end of the HoTs from the target with the current iteration. Shrewd offering should reduce the cost, dot damage and is able to be casted onto two maximum targets. (or 3 for better returns)
So you have two different but still similarly themed ability morphs.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »We’d like to address a few common concerns we’ve been seeing in this thread. First: Agony. We appreciate all the feedback we’ve received so far on the changes to this ability, but understand some of you feel casting Agony on multiple players currently feels too risky. To counter this, we’re planning to change this to an upfront cost instead of damage each tick, and reduce its duration. We also want to make Executioner more useful, and will be implementing some changes in an upcoming PTS patch. This will include having it give resources back instantly, and making it proc when an enemy dies within a couple seconds of using an Assassination ability.
As an aside, we’re also looking at making Assassin’s Will an instant cast instead of having it be a super short cast.
We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health. While we won’t be addressing these in this update, it’s something we’re exploring for the future.
We appreciate everyone who’s taken the time to test the class changes on the PTS and provide feedback. Keep it coming!
well, I like the changes, but fact is that you have wrecked this class so far now that if I join a grp for something (raid, daily, trial, dungeon) the first request is to come with another of my toons, NO NEED for NB anymore nowadays!
And why, cauze you love to please those who play PvP and nerfed my loved class to nothing, to meaningless, to an existence in the marge of ESO.
I just plee for some love for my loved class so we can go somewhere with NBskills on the bar, which can make an difference in PVE. About PvP I don´t wanna talk, cauze there all is lost already long ago.
It can not be intended that as NB you can play your toon solo, but get no love for grp-play.1 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭Would also like to add I think this skill looks like it's intended for use by NB healers. I don't think it's intended to be used by NB DPS or tanks, so either of those roles saying they won't use it, is probably correct.0
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NBs just got a nice Executioner passive buff. Nobody talking about those of course.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Would also like to add I think this skill looks like it's intended for use by NB healers. I don't think it's intended to be used by NB DPS or tanks, so either of those roles saying they won't use it, is probably correct.
I would agree, but it'd be nice if it was a few seconds longer in duration.
It's not a skill you're supposed to use on everyone, but it's an extremely good HoT to have running on your Tank. I preferred when it was a DoT on you personally, because you could position yourself closest to the tank and by using Funnel Health + Mutagen+ Healthy Offering you would more than offset the DoT damage while having supreme HoTs on the Tank with the Mutagen ready to kick in if an "oh ***" moment came.
I certainly preferred it to taking a large damage equal to 40% of your health pool upfront, which could be catastrophic if you time it wrongly.
Edited by Maulkin on October 4, 2017 2:49PMEU | PC | AD0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374269/ladies-and-gents-i-present-you-the-new-healthy-offering-more-like-unhealthy-offering#latest
Look at that, omg
wtf is intended with that skill??
What good should that bring, WHAT IS THE REASON, JUST WRECK NB ON AND ON?!?Edited by Azurya on October 4, 2017 2:55PM0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@exeeter702 For the record, Im speaking strictly from a PvP perspective.
You literally could not cancel or weave the ability before, and now you will be able to do so. If you can't see how the removal of a cast delay will make the skill more versatile, or how skilled Nightblades will be able to deliver tighter burst damage, I honestly don't care to debate this with you further. We will just have to agree to disagree and see the results in practice.
0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZOS_Wrobel
Malevolent/Healthy/Shrewd Offering.
First of all, I can only speak from a PVP DPS point of view. Also, as I understand it, in PVP the damage isn't affected by battle spirit, but the heal is. I presume this is an oversight, and not intended, so what I write assumes that this is corrected further down the line so we get the true heal in PVP.
The skill in it's first iteration, I would have used; the skill as it is now, I couldn't touch.
I'm a mageblade in light armour. I build enough health into my setup to be able to survive being attacked, and react. Often I'll get taken to <5k health before I can pop a shield, then set a HoT running to bring my health back up. With the latest update, I could not rely on this skill as I might not even be able to cast it.
This is of course specific to how I would use the skill. I read nightblade healers saying how this change is better for them, and that of course is great.
My point here is that we have two morphs. Why not for example leave Healthy Offering in it's first iteration with the DoT and HoT, and have Shrewd Offering in it's newer form with the up front damage and HoT?
I agree with you that it would be nice to have two differing morphs, one that is an upfront cost, and one that is a cost over time. The question would be then how those two morphs get treated in terms of the bonus.
In my opinion I think that Healthy Offering should be the upfront cost and grant minor mending on cast, you gotta lot of health to spread around.
I think the base skill should be the the HP Damage Over time, with Shrewd offering giving reduced damage to yourself (cost)0 -
NBs just got a nice Executioner passive buff. Nobody talking about those of course.
It is indeed a nice buff but it still has very limited usage. Only 3 skills and a proc from the skilltree do damage: Death stroke Ult, Assasin's Blade, Teleport Strike and Assasin's Will proc. And since it requires a kill - it's almost usless during boss fights.
Let's look at it from PvE perspective as a DD: you don't really use Ults on adds normally, most of them have too low hp to use an execute and Teleport Strike is downright useless in PvE. That leaves us with an occasional Assasins' Will proc. So yeah while it's a nice buff you don't really want to rely on that passive too much.
Now, the most fun part: They mentioned that it will be a buff for NB tanks. However none of these skills are of any use for a tank. Only Assassination tree skills that are useful for a tank don't do any damage.
I can't really comment on how good it is from PvP perspective but i imagine it's also not that good since every fight is similar to a PvE boss fight. Unless you are steamrolling over a bunch of noobs.
Short version: Just like heals from Assasin's Blade and Mark Target new passive is nothing more than a nice bonus. It's not something you can rely on or build around.Edited by inf.toniceb17_ESO on October 4, 2017 7:55PM1 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the NB is supposed to be more of a 'solo' player, then perhaps most of it's "healing" skills should focus on themselves first.
My opinion:
Malevolent Offering is initially a Flat HP cost Ability that is only a self-target ability. It will heal the user for a base amount above the amount used (at least in PvE) over a duration. This will satisfy the 'selfish' nature of the NB archetype.
Then come the morphs:
The first morph: Shrewd Offering, will decrease the amount it costs to cast the ability, in essence giving you a stronger heal for yourself.
the second morph: Benevolent Offering, will heal allies for [x] over a duration, and damage you for [y]% of healing done as well as granting you Minor Mending.
With this, the skill essentially has two paths: a healer path for a NB with a change of heart, and the standard: go it alone morph for a solo player.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »NBs just got a nice Executioner passive buff. Nobody talking about those of course.
It is indeed a nice buff but it still has very limited usage. Only 3 skills and a proc from the skilltree do damage: Death stroke Ult, Assasin's Blade, Teleport Strike and Assasin's Will proc. And since it requires a kill - it's almost usless during boss fights.
Let's look at it from PvE perspective as a DD: you don't really use Ults on adds normally, most of them have too low hp to use an execute and Teleport Strike is downright useless in PvE. That leaves us with an occasional Assasins' Will proc. So yeah while it's a nice buff you don't really want to rely on that passive too much.
Now, the most fun part: They mentioned that it will be a buff for NB tanks. However none of these skills are of any use for a tank. Only Assassination tree skills that are useful for a tank don't do any damage.
I can't really comment on how good it is from PvP perspective but i imagine it's also not that good since every fight is similar to a PvE boss fight. Unless you are steamrolling over a bunch of noobs.
Short version: Just like heals from Assasin's Blade and Mark Target new passive is nothing more than a nice bonus. It's not something you can rely on or build around.
You don't need to kill. You just need to do damage and the opponent to die within 2 seconds. That's pretty strong in PvP.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭You don't need to kill. You just need to do damage and the opponent to die within 2 seconds. That's pretty strong in PvP.
with an assaination ability. Or is that also removed from the tooltip now? Won't be able to look until the weekend
AeoEdited by aeowulf on October 5, 2017 7:11AM0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭
With an assassination skill. I think it's pretty much niche build since tanks to have killers blade or assassin will might be a bit hard pressed to find,both in PvP and pve.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health. While we won’t be addressing these in this update, it’s something we’re exploring for the future.
I've always liked Power Extraction, am I the only one? Sure it's not as awesome to a Stamblade as Sap Essence is to a Magblade, but I think that's why the complaint threads came up in the first place, just people whining that their Stamblade can't heal like the Magblades who plow through hordes of mobs without the slightest blip to their health.
The skill is amazing, do I want a big AOE damaging skill close to the radius of steelnado while dealing approximately the same damage of steelnado while gaining major brutality while spending 30% less stamina? Yes please.
Any Stamblade who's going into a dungeon for the first time, or playing casually, or pugging has much to gain from this skill. It's on my "Cheap DPS" bar, I hardly ever use up power potions, and my optional 2-H build uses this for more AOE DPS.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health. While we won’t be addressing these in this update, it’s something we’re exploring for the future.
I've always liked Power Extraction, am I the only one? Sure it's not as awesome to a Stamblade as Sap Essence is to a Magblade, but I think that's why the complaint threads came up in the first place, just people whining that their Stamblade can't heal like the Magblades who plow through hordes of mobs without the slightest blip to their health.
The skill is amazing, do I want a big AOE damaging skill close to the radius of steelnado while dealing approximately the same damage of steelnado while gaining major brutality while spending 30% less stamina? Yes please.
Any Stamblade who's going into a dungeon for the first time, or playing casually, or pugging has much to gain from this skill. It's on my "Cheap DPS" bar, I hardly ever use up power potions, and my optional 2-H build uses this for more AOE DPS.
It has less range than Steel Tornado, deals less damage most of the time (depends on target health) and isn't currently part of any PvE/PvP build for a reason.
If you want access to Major Brutality without using pots or 2H, Shrouded Daggers provides you way more AoE DPS and is actually a very good skill in PvP as well (3rd bounce of it deals more damage than a Surprise Attack), while costing only 10% more stamina (not that this matters for most builds).1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health. While we won’t be addressing these in this update, it’s something we’re exploring for the future.
I've always liked Power Extraction, am I the only one? Sure it's not as awesome to a Stamblade as Sap Essence is to a Magblade, but I think that's why the complaint threads came up in the first place, just people whining that their Stamblade can't heal like the Magblades who plow through hordes of mobs without the slightest blip to their health.
The skill is amazing, do I want a big AOE damaging skill close to the radius of steelnado while dealing approximately the same damage of steelnado while gaining major brutality while spending 30% less stamina? Yes please.
Any Stamblade who's going into a dungeon for the first time, or playing casually, or pugging has much to gain from this skill. It's on my "Cheap DPS" bar, I hardly ever use up power potions, and my optional 2-H build uses this for more AOE DPS.
It has less range than Steel Tornado, deals less damage most of the time (depends on target health) and isn't currently part of any PvE/PvP build for a reason.
If you want access to Major Brutality without using pots or 2H, Shrouded Daggers provides you way more AoE DPS and is actually a very good skill in PvP as well (3rd bounce of it deals more damage than a Surprise Attack), while costing only 10% more stamina (not that this matters for most builds).
What would you change it to? I think it would be bad for balance overall if Power Extraction simply outperformed Steel Tornado as an AoE DPS ability.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health. While we won’t be addressing these in this update, it’s something we’re exploring for the future.
I've always liked Power Extraction, am I the only one? Sure it's not as awesome to a Stamblade as Sap Essence is to a Magblade, but I think that's why the complaint threads came up in the first place, just people whining that their Stamblade can't heal like the Magblades who plow through hordes of mobs without the slightest blip to their health.
The skill is amazing, do I want a big AOE damaging skill close to the radius of steelnado while dealing approximately the same damage of steelnado while gaining major brutality while spending 30% less stamina? Yes please.
Any Stamblade who's going into a dungeon for the first time, or playing casually, or pugging has much to gain from this skill. It's on my "Cheap DPS" bar, I hardly ever use up power potions, and my optional 2-H build uses this for more AOE DPS.
It has less range than Steel Tornado, deals less damage most of the time (depends on target health) and isn't currently part of any PvE/PvP build for a reason.
If you want access to Major Brutality without using pots or 2H, Shrouded Daggers provides you way more AoE DPS and is actually a very good skill in PvP as well (3rd bounce of it deals more damage than a Surprise Attack), while costing only 10% more stamina (not that this matters for most builds).
Sorry I just don't use shrouded in dungeons, doesn't hit enough enemies. If I wanted to deal AOE and get major Brutality without using up power pots I go with Power Extraction, the skill bar isn't big enough for shrouded and steelnado while accessing everything else I want.0 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭Power Extraction also procs axe bleeds and any set that requires direct damage to proc, steel tornado doesn't.
Power Extraction's radius is 8 meters instead of 9. That's a 16 meter diameter circle instead of 18, it still pretty much hits the entire room and hits enemies with more up front damage than steelnado until they have close to 30% missing health, that's the point where steel tornado starts to match the damage of Power Extraction.
Shrouded Daggers only bounces up to 5 meters, that's it. If you hit a mob in the middle that is flanked by two other mobs, and the dagger bounces right 3 meters, it would ignore the mobs that are left of center by more than 2 meters.
Power Extraction is left out of min maxer dps guides that require power pots, but it DOES show up in this guide as a "No Potion Group" build,
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stamina-nightblade-pve-dps-for-morrowind/
No Potion Group DPS is every new player that starts out as a Stamblade, and casual players that don't have a large amount of gold, and every player that doesn't want to burn up all their power pots as they work with a non-optimized group.
If Power Extraction changes into something dumb like a tank skill, Stamblades will be more boxed into the weapon skill meta than ever.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health. While we won’t be addressing these in this update, it’s something we’re exploring for the future.
I've always liked Power Extraction, am I the only one? Sure it's not as awesome to a Stamblade as Sap Essence is to a Magblade, but I think that's why the complaint threads came up in the first place, just people whining that their Stamblade can't heal like the Magblades who plow through hordes of mobs without the slightest blip to their health.
The skill is amazing, do I want a big AOE damaging skill close to the radius of steelnado while dealing approximately the same damage of steelnado while gaining major brutality while spending 30% less stamina? Yes please.
Any Stamblade who's going into a dungeon for the first time, or playing casually, or pugging has much to gain from this skill. It's on my "Cheap DPS" bar, I hardly ever use up power potions, and my optional 2-H build uses this for more AOE DPS.
It has less range than Steel Tornado, deals less damage most of the time (depends on target health) and isn't currently part of any PvE/PvP build for a reason.
If you want access to Major Brutality without using pots or 2H, Shrouded Daggers provides you way more AoE DPS and is actually a very good skill in PvP as well (3rd bounce of it deals more damage than a Surprise Attack), while costing only 10% more stamina (not that this matters for most builds).
What would you change it to? I think it would be bad for balance overall if Power Extraction simply outperformed Steel Tornado as an AoE DPS ability.
I would change it to something completely different. It's not like stamina builds lack any AoE (in fact, with vMA bow you usually don't even slot spammable AoE in Trials for example).
I'd like to see the stamina morph become a single target delayed heal (I believe ZOS actually stated they intend for Siphoning to become a "healing" skill line). Something like this:
Power Extraction
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: X seconds
Cost: X stamina
Apply a ticking bomb on the enemy that deals Y damage after X seconds and heals you for Z. You may detonate the bomb earlier for less damage and healing.
Also grants you Major Brutality for 30 seconds.
Just an idea, anything really works as long as it's better than the current form (worst, most unreliable way of getting Major Brutality in game).
@Bladerunner1 with all due respect to Jeckll (who's a fantastic player), I'm quite certain Shrouded Daggers would perform better in most situations.
There are edge cases where you're fighting 6 or more enemies where Power Extraction would possibly perform better, but those are too niche imo (and usually just steamrolled through as those are pretty much always trash mob encounters) to really warrant slotting Power Extraction. Most of the time you're better off with Shrouded Daggers.
Besides, designing skills so that they are only worth using as a new player significantly reduces build diversity at the top level, where things like min-maxing & even having a build start to matter.
Good skill design is designing skills that are fun to use and useful at all level ranges, especially in a game with extremely limited number of skills you can slot. Skills that aren't too similar to other skills (e.g. Steel Tornado).Edited by DDuke on October 5, 2017 3:21PM2 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »We’d like to address a few common concerns we’ve been seeing in this thread. First: Agony. We appreciate all the feedback we’ve received so far on the changes to this ability, but understand some of you feel casting Agony on multiple players currently feels too risky. To counter this, we’re planning to change this to an upfront cost instead of damage each tick, and reduce its duration. We also want to make Executioner more useful, and will be implementing some changes in an upcoming PTS patch. This will include having it give resources back instantly, and making it proc when an enemy dies within a couple seconds of using an Assassination ability.
As an aside, we’re also looking at making Assassin’s Will an instant cast instead of having it be a super short cast.
We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health. While we won’t be addressing these in this update, it’s something we’re exploring for the future.
We appreciate everyone who’s taken the time to test the class changes on the PTS and provide feedback. Keep it coming!
Will the instant cast of Assassin's Will apply to Assassin's Scourge also? Will it change travel time at all? I'm excited to see if this will prevent the ability sometimes doing nothing after casting then bar swapping.
The executioner passive change sounds very powerful. Maybe a reduction in magicka returned if you don't get the kill?
2k magicka or stamina on kill is actually not too powerfuThe_Protagonist wrote: »How about a change to cripple? For Stamblades?
Stamblades will become WAY too OP in PvE. They are already on the same level as Stam DKs.
This is without War Machine (with it I've hit up to 50.5k). Add Cripple into the mix and we'll be well into the 51k+ range. Now obviously this is only a dummy, but in raids, we'd be well above DKs, with more group utility due to War Machine.
I mean I'm all for having a Cripple stam morph. But I'm afraid that that will bring nerfs to other Stamblade aspects.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health. While we won’t be addressing these in this update, it’s something we’re exploring for the future.
I've always liked Power Extraction, am I the only one? Sure it's not as awesome to a Stamblade as Sap Essence is to a Magblade, but I think that's why the complaint threads came up in the first place, just people whining that their Stamblade can't heal like the Magblades who plow through hordes of mobs without the slightest blip to their health.
The skill is amazing, do I want a big AOE damaging skill close to the radius of steelnado while dealing approximately the same damage of steelnado while gaining major brutality while spending 30% less stamina? Yes please.
Any Stamblade who's going into a dungeon for the first time, or playing casually, or pugging has much to gain from this skill. It's on my "Cheap DPS" bar, I hardly ever use up power potions, and my optional 2-H build uses this for more AOE DPS.
It has less range than Steel Tornado, deals less damage most of the time (depends on target health) and isn't currently part of any PvE/PvP build for a reason.
If you want access to Major Brutality without using pots or 2H, Shrouded Daggers provides you way more AoE DPS and is actually a very good skill in PvP as well (3rd bounce of it deals more damage than a Surprise Attack), while costing only 10% more stamina (not that this matters for most builds).
What would you change it to? I think it would be bad for balance overall if Power Extraction simply outperformed Steel Tornado as an AoE DPS ability.
I would change it to something completely different. It's not like stamina builds lack any AoE (in fact, with vMA bow you usually don't even slot spammable AoE in Trials for example).
I'd like to see the stamina morph become a single target delayed heal (I believe ZOS actually stated they intend for Siphoning to become a "healing" skill line). Something like this:
Power Extraction
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: X seconds
Cost: X stamina
Apply a ticking bomb on the enemy that deals Y damage after X seconds and heals you for Z. You may detonate the bomb earlier for less damage and healing.
Also grants you Major Brutality for 30 seconds.
Just an idea, anything really works as long as it's better than the current form (worst, most unreliable way of getting Major Brutality in game).
@Bladerunner1 with all due respect to Jeckll (who's a fantastic player), I'm quite certain Shrouded Daggers would perform better in most situations.
There are edge cases where you're fighting 6 or more enemies where Power Extraction would possibly perform better, but those are too niche imo (and usually just steamrolled through as those are pretty much always trash mob encounters) to really warrant slotting Power Extraction. Most of the time you're better off with Shrouded Daggers.
Besides, designing skills so that they are only worth using as a new player significantly reduces build diversity at the top level, where things like min-maxing & even having a build start to matter.
Good skill design is designing skills that are fun to use and useful at all level ranges, especially in a game with extremely limited number of skills you can slot. Skills that aren't too similar to other skills (e.g. Steel Tornado).
The only reason I had for bringing this up was Wrobel's comment:
"We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health."
The sentence reeks of tanking. Think about it, they just took one "useless" nightblade skill and turned it into a "healing" skill.
We don't need them to take what you consider a useless skill and turned it into a "tanking" skill. 90% of the stamblade DPS playerbase has need of it in it's current form because shrouded daggers is so lame, it hits up to three targets if you aim at the furthest enemy, and the other two are standing within a 5meter end-to-end arrangement like dominos falling over. Aim at the middle enemy and you get two hits...it's lame.
Players without a Maelstrom bow have terrible AOE DPS, and more often than not they don't have power pots, and those players make up a majority of Stamblades.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »Bladerunner1 wrote: »ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health. While we won’t be addressing these in this update, it’s something we’re exploring for the future.
I've always liked Power Extraction, am I the only one? Sure it's not as awesome to a Stamblade as Sap Essence is to a Magblade, but I think that's why the complaint threads came up in the first place, just people whining that their Stamblade can't heal like the Magblades who plow through hordes of mobs without the slightest blip to their health.
The skill is amazing, do I want a big AOE damaging skill close to the radius of steelnado while dealing approximately the same damage of steelnado while gaining major brutality while spending 30% less stamina? Yes please.
Any Stamblade who's going into a dungeon for the first time, or playing casually, or pugging has much to gain from this skill. It's on my "Cheap DPS" bar, I hardly ever use up power potions, and my optional 2-H build uses this for more AOE DPS.
It has less range than Steel Tornado, deals less damage most of the time (depends on target health) and isn't currently part of any PvE/PvP build for a reason.
If you want access to Major Brutality without using pots or 2H, Shrouded Daggers provides you way more AoE DPS and is actually a very good skill in PvP as well (3rd bounce of it deals more damage than a Surprise Attack), while costing only 10% more stamina (not that this matters for most builds).
What would you change it to? I think it would be bad for balance overall if Power Extraction simply outperformed Steel Tornado as an AoE DPS ability.
I would change it to something completely different. It's not like stamina builds lack any AoE (in fact, with vMA bow you usually don't even slot spammable AoE in Trials for example).
I'd like to see the stamina morph become a single target delayed heal (I believe ZOS actually stated they intend for Siphoning to become a "healing" skill line). Something like this:
Power Extraction
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Duration: X seconds
Cost: X stamina
Apply a ticking bomb on the enemy that deals Y damage after X seconds and heals you for Z. You may detonate the bomb earlier for less damage and healing.
Also grants you Major Brutality for 30 seconds.
Just an idea, anything really works as long as it's better than the current form (worst, most unreliable way of getting Major Brutality in game).
@Bladerunner1 with all due respect to Jeckll (who's a fantastic player), I'm quite certain Shrouded Daggers would perform better in most situations.
There are edge cases where you're fighting 6 or more enemies where Power Extraction would possibly perform better, but those are too niche imo (and usually just steamrolled through as those are pretty much always trash mob encounters) to really warrant slotting Power Extraction. Most of the time you're better off with Shrouded Daggers.
Besides, designing skills so that they are only worth using as a new player significantly reduces build diversity at the top level, where things like min-maxing & even having a build start to matter.
Good skill design is designing skills that are fun to use and useful at all level ranges, especially in a game with extremely limited number of skills you can slot. Skills that aren't too similar to other skills (e.g. Steel Tornado).
The only reason I had for bringing this up was Wrobel's comment:
"We’ve also seen requests to modify Power Extraction, and to add an ability that scales off your maximum health."
The sentence reeks of tanking. Think about it, they just took one "useless" nightblade skill and turned it into a "healing" skill.
We don't need them to take what you consider a useless skill and turned it into a "tanking" skill. 90% of the stamblade DPS playerbase has need of it in it's current form because shrouded daggers is so lame, it hits up to three targets if you aim at the furthest enemy, and the other two are standing within a 5meter end-to-end arrangement like dominos falling over. Aim at the middle enemy and you get two hits...it's lame.
Players without a Maelstrom bow have terrible AOE DPS, and more often than not they don't have power pots, and those players make up a majority of Stamblades.
Interesting. Do you have some concrete proof of those statistics or is that just an "estimation"?
I don't think I've ever seen anyone use this skill since it got changed to a stamina ability, I tested it out a couple of times & determined it was garbage and resulted in less DPS than Shrouded Daggers in almost all pug runs where I often cba to use potions.
I do agree though, changing this skill to a "tank ability" wouldn't be much of an "improvement"...Edited by DDuke on October 5, 2017 3:56PM0