PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Nightblades

Kilandros

Feanor wrote: »

I don't think NB needs buffs at this point, especially not better passives - they have a lot if those anyway.

But Sorc is in desperate need of buffs, right?

Rataroto

elbow wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

I'm ok with the agony change, the only use for it before was to troll people in Cyrodiil in lakes for 30 seconds.

But please can we have the Debilitate skill (Cripple morph) be stamina based? As well as make the "Magicka Flood" passive into a passive that enhances both max stamina and max magicka?
Here's my line of thought:

Debilitate - Now scales with maximum stamina and weapon damage and deals desiese damage. Uppon target death restores 50% of the stamina cost.

Magicka Flood - Renamed to 'Energy Flood'. With a siphoning ability sloted, increasses maxium magicka and stamina by 3%/6%.

I think its long passed we have these one sided passives, and NO ONE uses Debilitate over Crippling Grasp.

Sorry but I disagree, I prefer debilitate over crippling grasp for the sole reason I can have it on multiple opponents. Sure, crippling grasp is far superior in duels, however in group play the ability to have this dot ticking on several players is extremely useful - Skoria and other sets.
Magica Nightblades do not need additional nerfs!

its called, stam love. enough of 1 sided passives already!

Maryal

DDuke wrote: »

Good skill design is designing skills that are fun to use and useful at all level ranges, especially in a game with extremely limited number of skills you can slot. Skills that aren't too similar to other skills (e.g. Steel Tornado).

It is natural to view the value of our skills/passives through the eyes of our preferred play style, but it is important to keep in mind that there will never be a 'one size fits all' way of gaming. Just because a skill or passive may not be super useful for our chosen play style doesn't mean it isn't awesome for someone else's.

In general:
We have pvp'ers, pve'ers, and a mixture of both
We have people who prefer to group while others prefer to solo
We have people who prefer a more simplistic play style, folks who prefer a more fast pace/challenging playstyle, and folks in between the two
... and for all of the above, we have people with varying levels of experience.

With that in mind, most class skills/passives should work fairly well with most play styles. There will always be some skills/passives that work better with some play as opposed to others, and of those, there should always be a few that work best with more niche play styles.

The same is true for the non-class skill trees such as weapon, fighter's and mage's guild.

What might be nice is if ZOS expanded the fighters/mages guild to 2 skill trees since so many people seem to be in "need" of something they don't currently have, or have access to.

RavenSworn

Maryal wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Good skill design is designing skills that are fun to use and useful at all level ranges, especially in a game with extremely limited number of skills you can slot. Skills that aren't too similar to other skills (e.g. Steel Tornado).

It is natural to view the value of our skills/passives through the eyes of our preferred play style, but it is important to keep in mind that there will never be a 'one size fits all' way of gaming. Just because a skill or passive may not be super useful for our chosen play style doesn't mean it isn't awesome for someone else's.

In general:
We have pvp'ers, pve'ers, and a mixture of both
We have people who prefer to group while others prefer to solo
We have people who prefer a more simplistic play style, folks who prefer a more fast pace/challenging playstyle, and folks in between the two
... and for all of the above, we have people with varying levels of experience.

With that in mind, most class skills/passives should work fairly well with most play styles. There will always be some skills/passives that work better with some play as opposed to others, and of those, there should always be a few that work best with more niche play styles.

The same is true for the non-class skill trees such as weapon, fighter's and mage's guild.

What might be nice is if ZOS expanded the fighters/mages guild to 2 skill trees since so many people seem to be in "need" of something they don't currently have, or have access to.

I agree with this. If we have abilities that are more or less the same with other classes.. Especially for our class skills, then what's the use of differentiating the two classes? I advocated the use of HoTs or 'leeching' for nbs simply because it fits our theme and game play. Not because we need to heal like a Templar. Then use a Templar for gods sake.

Feanor

Kilandros wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I don't think NB needs buffs at this point, especially not better passives - they have a lot if those anyway.

But Sorc is in desperate need of buffs, right?

If you follow my posts I didn't argue for any Sorc buffs. I'd like more diversity in the Sorc toolkit, yes, and I would appreciate a buff to the base shield strength for noCP (while adjusting the shield strength for CP either by way of tuning down Bastion or other means).

If that can't be done I'd want the class to stay as it is - no Sorc asked for the changes made on the last few patches. We didn't want the Curse change, we certainly don't want the frags change, and the Rune Cage change wasn't a Sorc agenda thing either.

aeowulf

Feanor wrote: »

If you follow my posts I didn't argue for any Sorc buffs. I'd like more diversity in the Sorc toolkit, yes, and I would appreciate a buff to the base shield strength for noCP (while adjusting the shield strength for CP either by way of tuning down Bastion or other means).

Are you talking about the base shield strength for all shields or just sorc shields with the adjstment to cp changes (that obviously affects all classes)

This change would be a benefit for all classes that use shields as the most likely configuration will free up a few cp for them and the more shields they have access to the easier it will be for them to free up the cp with lesser effect. The class that would benefit most from this would be sorcs as they have a commonly used & strong class shield.

Personally i'd like to see self cast shields set to non-stacking or shields made more of a group thing, where to get your 20k shield, all 4 members need to cast a 5k group shield. Or simply scale all shields on health as that's the resource pool they protect.

But this is all getting very off topic, this is a NB feedback thread. Sorc feedback should be kept in the sorc thread?

Azurya

A healing NB is in the name alone just a paradox!
we had our selfhealing in the siphoning tree once, which was fine, but got nerfed cauze of the haters of our class
I have no need to play a healer with any of my NB-builds
therfor I have a warden right now, fine.
I can tank with my NB, but that also got nerfed
stopp rebuilding the NBskilltrees, we are sick and tired about this

currently working on new build, where it is intended to use NBskills only, first 2 weeks look fine,
wait and see

Izaki

Rataroto wrote: »

I'm ok with the agony change, the only use for it before was to troll people in Cyrodiil in lakes for 30 seconds.

But please can we have the Debilitate skill (Cripple morph) be stamina based? As well as make the "Magicka Flood" passive into a passive that enhances both max stamina and max magicka?
Here's my line of thought:

Debilitate - Now scales with maximum stamina and weapon damage and deals desiese damage. Uppon target death restores 50% of the stamina cost.

Magicka Flood - Renamed to 'Energy Flood'. With a siphoning ability sloted, increasses maxium magicka and stamina by 3%/6%.

I think its long passed we have these one sided passives, and NO ONE uses Debilitate over Crippling Grasp.

I kinda like what you've got going on there with Energy Flood. Don't agree with Debilitate though... We don't have the bar space to run it and it would make Stamblades way too strong. A class with a class spammable and execute AND a DoT? That's way too much.

Power Extraction definitely needs a change though, its just not good enough for an AoE spammable and it will probably never match Steel Tornado, which is why this skill needs a total rework. It has to include some sort of healing component to fit the Siphoning theme and it has to do something other than just being an AoE spammable. Frankly, I'd love for this to be a player based AoE DoT, but that would mean that the skill is far too different from the original morph. One thing is for sure though, the Major Brutality has to be activated even when the skill doesn't touch an enemy.

Feanor

aeowulf wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

If you follow my posts I didn't argue for any Sorc buffs. I'd like more diversity in the Sorc toolkit, yes, and I would appreciate a buff to the base shield strength for noCP (while adjusting the shield strength for CP either by way of tuning down Bastion or other means).

Are you talking about the base shield strength for all shields or just sorc shields with the adjstment to cp changes (that obviously affects all classes)

This change would be a benefit for all classes that use shields as the most likely configuration will free up a few cp for them and the more shields they have access to the easier it will be for them to free up the cp with lesser effect. The class that would benefit most from this would be sorcs as they have a commonly used & strong class shield.

Personally i'd like to see self cast shields set to non-stacking or shields made more of a group thing, where to get your 20k shield, all 4 members need to cast a 5k group shield. Or simply scale all shields on health as that's the resource pool they protect.

But this is all getting very off topic, this is a NB feedback thread. Sorc feedback should be kept in the sorc thread?

I was just answering to a cheek-in-tongue comment as some people seem to see me as Sorc advocate. In fact I was just saying above that I don't think NB needs more buffs now. The Agony change is interesting as far as the idea goes, but the execution may be lacking. I don't know.

Kolzki

Izaki wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

I'm ok with the agony change, the only use for it before was to troll people in Cyrodiil in lakes for 30 seconds.

But please can we have the Debilitate skill (Cripple morph) be stamina based? As well as make the "Magicka Flood" passive into a passive that enhances both max stamina and max magicka?
Here's my line of thought:

Debilitate - Now scales with maximum stamina and weapon damage and deals desiese damage. Uppon target death restores 50% of the stamina cost.

Magicka Flood - Renamed to 'Energy Flood'. With a siphoning ability sloted, increasses maxium magicka and stamina by 3%/6%.

I think its long passed we have these one sided passives, and NO ONE uses Debilitate over Crippling Grasp.

I kinda like what you've got going on there with Energy Flood. Don't agree with Debilitate though... We don't have the bar space to run it and it would make Stamblades way too strong. A class with a class spammable and execute AND a DoT? That's way too much.

Power Extraction definitely needs a change though, its just not good enough for an AoE spammable and it will probably never match Steel Tornado, which is why this skill needs a total rework. It has to include some sort of healing component to fit the Siphoning theme and it has to do something other than just being an AoE spammable. Frankly, I'd love for this to be a player based AoE DoT, but that would mean that the skill is far too different from the original morph. One thing is for sure though, the Major Brutality has to be activated even when the skill doesn't touch an enemy.

It seems to me that pre-buffing Major Brutality would be very nightblade. NB's seem to need targets for their buffs, be it for protection (at least for stam), speed, healing through SA or Sap or major brutality/sorcery. I think it's one of the reasons that nightblades are squishy (limited pre-buffs) but it also pushes them towards an aggressive play style.

I think the problem with Power Extraction is that it applies a buff that many people are already running from potions in end game content or competitive pvp. Magika users get brutality (for some reason), sorcery and group healing. Stamina only gets brutality.

Just make Power Extraction proc an additional buff/debuff and people will use it.

Feanor

Kolzki wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

I'm ok with the agony change, the only use for it before was to troll people in Cyrodiil in lakes for 30 seconds.

But please can we have the Debilitate skill (Cripple morph) be stamina based? As well as make the "Magicka Flood" passive into a passive that enhances both max stamina and max magicka?
Here's my line of thought:

Debilitate - Now scales with maximum stamina and weapon damage and deals desiese damage. Uppon target death restores 50% of the stamina cost.

Magicka Flood - Renamed to 'Energy Flood'. With a siphoning ability sloted, increasses maxium magicka and stamina by 3%/6%.

I think its long passed we have these one sided passives, and NO ONE uses Debilitate over Crippling Grasp.

I kinda like what you've got going on there with Energy Flood. Don't agree with Debilitate though... We don't have the bar space to run it and it would make Stamblades way too strong. A class with a class spammable and execute AND a DoT? That's way too much.

Power Extraction definitely needs a change though, its just not good enough for an AoE spammable and it will probably never match Steel Tornado, which is why this skill needs a total rework. It has to include some sort of healing component to fit the Siphoning theme and it has to do something other than just being an AoE spammable. Frankly, I'd love for this to be a player based AoE DoT, but that would mean that the skill is far too different from the original morph. One thing is for sure though, the Major Brutality has to be activated even when the skill doesn't touch an enemy.

It seems to me that pre-buffing Major Brutality would be very nightblade. NB's seem to need targets for their buffs, be it for protection (at least for stam), speed, healing through SA or Sap or major brutality/sorcery. I think it's one of the reasons that nightblades are squishy (limited pre-buffs) but it also pushes them towards an aggressive play style.

I think the problem with Power Extraction is that it applies a buff that many people are already running from potions in end game content or competitive pvp. Magika users get brutality (for some reason), sorcery and group healing. Stamina only gets brutality.

Just make Power Extraction proc an additional buff/debuff and people will use it.

Pre-buffing should at least break stealth. Under no circumstance you should be able to get buffs and still stay invisible. This isn't nightblade exclusive of course, but cloak makes it a lot easier for them.

As for the rest, the constant ridiculous buff suggestions are a reason why NBs find close to no sympathy for their concerns. What's next on the NB wish list? Major Mending for 8 seconds when you activate a class ability?

Master_Kas

Feanor wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

I'm ok with the agony change, the only use for it before was to troll people in Cyrodiil in lakes for 30 seconds.

But please can we have the Debilitate skill (Cripple morph) be stamina based? As well as make the "Magicka Flood" passive into a passive that enhances both max stamina and max magicka?
Here's my line of thought:

Debilitate - Now scales with maximum stamina and weapon damage and deals desiese damage. Uppon target death restores 50% of the stamina cost.

Magicka Flood - Renamed to 'Energy Flood'. With a siphoning ability sloted, increasses maxium magicka and stamina by 3%/6%.

I think its long passed we have these one sided passives, and NO ONE uses Debilitate over Crippling Grasp.

I kinda like what you've got going on there with Energy Flood. Don't agree with Debilitate though... We don't have the bar space to run it and it would make Stamblades way too strong. A class with a class spammable and execute AND a DoT? That's way too much.

Power Extraction definitely needs a change though, its just not good enough for an AoE spammable and it will probably never match Steel Tornado, which is why this skill needs a total rework. It has to include some sort of healing component to fit the Siphoning theme and it has to do something other than just being an AoE spammable. Frankly, I'd love for this to be a player based AoE DoT, but that would mean that the skill is far too different from the original morph. One thing is for sure though, the Major Brutality has to be activated even when the skill doesn't touch an enemy.

It seems to me that pre-buffing Major Brutality would be very nightblade. NB's seem to need targets for their buffs, be it for protection (at least for stam), speed, healing through SA or Sap or major brutality/sorcery. I think it's one of the reasons that nightblades are squishy (limited pre-buffs) but it also pushes them towards an aggressive play style.

I think the problem with Power Extraction is that it applies a buff that many people are already running from potions in end game content or competitive pvp. Magika users get brutality (for some reason), sorcery and group healing. Stamina only gets brutality.

Just make Power Extraction proc an additional buff/debuff and people will use it.

Pre-buffing should at least break stealth. Under no circumstance you should be able to get buffs and still stay invisible. This isn't nightblade exclusive of course, but cloak makes it a lot easier for them.

As for the rest, the constant ridiculous buff suggestions are a reason why NBs find close to no sympathy for their concerns. What's next on the NB wish list? Major Mending for 8 seconds when you activate a class ability?

Perhaps you should go to the sorcerer thread instead of trying to get nb nerfed or shooting down every suggestion?

Feanor

@Master_Kas

There is a difference between QQing for nerfs and just not wanting more buffs.

Master_Kas

Feanor wrote: »

@Master_Kas

There is a difference between QQing for nerfs and just not wanting more buffs.

Why are you so against power extraction getting pre-buffed major sorcery without breaking stealth? I mean you can already do it with rally on any class..

Power extraction is the morph that most peole never use, it needs SOMETHING so it's worth slotting. As in, a buff. It's a legitimate concern.

Its a feedback thread, people got the right to make suggestions and all I seem to see is you trying to shoot it down.

I see from your signature you don't really play the class? I rest my case xD

Feanor

Master_Kas wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Master_Kas

There is a difference between QQing for nerfs and just not wanting more buffs.

Why are you so against power extraction getting pre-buffed major sorcery without breaking stealth? I mean you can already do it with rally on any class..

Power extraction is the morph that most peole never use, it needs SOMETHING so it's worth slotting. As in, a buff. It's a legitimate concern.

Its a feedback thread, people got the right to make suggestions and all I seem to see is you trying to shoot it down.

I see from your signature you don't really play the class? I rest my case xD

What I actually meant was no skill should allow buffing without stealth being broken. As for power extraction allowing to buff without a target needed, sure, by all means. And yes, my NB playtime is limited. So what? I'm just voicing concerns. As if ZOS would listen anyway.

Master_Kas

Feanor wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Master_Kas

There is a difference between QQing for nerfs and just not wanting more buffs.

Why are you so against power extraction getting pre-buffed major sorcery without breaking stealth? I mean you can already do it with rally on any class..

Power extraction is the morph that most peole never use, it needs SOMETHING so it's worth slotting. As in, a buff. It's a legitimate concern.

Its a feedback thread, people got the right to make suggestions and all I seem to see is you trying to shoot it down.

I see from your signature you don't really play the class? I rest my case xD

What I actually meant was no skill should allow buffing without stealth being broken. As for power extraction allowing to buff without a target needed, sure, by all means. And yes, my NB playtime is limited. So what? I'm just voicing concerns. As if ZOS would listen anyway.

LOL touché. Alright then carry on

Ragnaroek93

Nightblade seems to be pretty overpowered with the buffs: They are the only class which has Major Evasion on heavy armor which sets it ahead from all other heavy armor builds (for both, stam and magblade).
Next thing is Assassins Will instant cast which is a huge buff. Right now my burst combos are Assassins Will -> Incap -> Ability or Ability -> Incap -> Assassins Will. Both combos can be avoided because you can break free after a CC before Assassins Will hits and you can react to Incap if the nb casts Assassins Will before it. By making it an instant cast the combo Ability -> Incap -> Assassins Will is unavoidable and extremely deadly (would probably rate magicka nightblade as one of the strongest classes next and stamblade a bit behind it).

Don't know why ZOS wants to make burst uncounterable. Same argumentation goes for sorc which can now land a guaranteed hit on their burst combo with that new stun.

NyassaV

Just make grim refresh please? Or if your too lazy to figure that out extend it by 1 or 2 seconds maybe? 2 bloody seconds would help SOOOO much. The change made is helpful but not enough. Or go back to 4 light attacks, either is cool.

Can we increase the duration of Path of Darkness by .5 seocnds. With the Shadow passive it sits at an awkward 11.5 duration and increasing it's duration would help

The Siphoning ultimate should have a reduced cost to around 125 or 100 down from 150. The only thing I find it useful for is killing guards at resources since they negate all freaking magical skills

@ZOS_Wrobel

Kilandros

Master_Kas wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

I'm ok with the agony change, the only use for it before was to troll people in Cyrodiil in lakes for 30 seconds.

But please can we have the Debilitate skill (Cripple morph) be stamina based? As well as make the "Magicka Flood" passive into a passive that enhances both max stamina and max magicka?
Here's my line of thought:

Debilitate - Now scales with maximum stamina and weapon damage and deals desiese damage. Uppon target death restores 50% of the stamina cost.

Magicka Flood - Renamed to 'Energy Flood'. With a siphoning ability sloted, increasses maxium magicka and stamina by 3%/6%.

I think its long passed we have these one sided passives, and NO ONE uses Debilitate over Crippling Grasp.

I kinda like what you've got going on there with Energy Flood. Don't agree with Debilitate though... We don't have the bar space to run it and it would make Stamblades way too strong. A class with a class spammable and execute AND a DoT? That's way too much.

Power Extraction definitely needs a change though, its just not good enough for an AoE spammable and it will probably never match Steel Tornado, which is why this skill needs a total rework. It has to include some sort of healing component to fit the Siphoning theme and it has to do something other than just being an AoE spammable. Frankly, I'd love for this to be a player based AoE DoT, but that would mean that the skill is far too different from the original morph. One thing is for sure though, the Major Brutality has to be activated even when the skill doesn't touch an enemy.

It seems to me that pre-buffing Major Brutality would be very nightblade. NB's seem to need targets for their buffs, be it for protection (at least for stam), speed, healing through SA or Sap or major brutality/sorcery. I think it's one of the reasons that nightblades are squishy (limited pre-buffs) but it also pushes them towards an aggressive play style.

I think the problem with Power Extraction is that it applies a buff that many people are already running from potions in end game content or competitive pvp. Magika users get brutality (for some reason), sorcery and group healing. Stamina only gets brutality.

Just make Power Extraction proc an additional buff/debuff and people will use it.

Pre-buffing should at least break stealth. Under no circumstance you should be able to get buffs and still stay invisible. This isn't nightblade exclusive of course, but cloak makes it a lot easier for them.

As for the rest, the constant ridiculous buff suggestions are a reason why NBs find close to no sympathy for their concerns. What's next on the NB wish list? Major Mending for 8 seconds when you activate a class ability?

Perhaps you should go to the sorcerer thread instead of trying to get nb nerfed or shooting down every suggestion?

The irony is he spends much of his time on the Sorcerer thread complaining about how underpowered they are and requesting buffs for the class.

Kolzki

I don't see the problem with adding a minor buff/debuff to a skill people don't use. We all only have 10 skill slots. For nightblade to use it they would have to drop something else.

Power Extraction is also not a pvp skill. It would just be nice to make it situationally useful for pve.

Maryal

Nightblades should be able to siphon the enemy's sight ... (blindness). This type of ability is in line with shadow magic as well as the siphoning tree.

1.) It could be enacted through some type of small ground based trap (traps should only have a 25-50% chance to proc the blindness to avoid them being OP). The blindness would last 3-5 seconds. While 'blind' you would be unable to damage any enemy for the duration, although you could still heal yourself, block, roll dodge, etc. The trap would not be visible to the enemy.

2.) Another way this could work is by the caster imbuing themselves with a burst of shadow magic ...upon activation the caster would have numerous dark, wispy, shadowy tendrils radiating outward from their body ...temporary blindness would befall any enemy touched by the shadowy tendrils. There should be a telegraph or something to indicate this spell is OTW so as to give an opportunity for counter play ...kind of like that glow you can see around the caster before Selene procs.

Because this would not be an 'unseen trap' ... any enemy coming in contact with the tendrils would 100% suffer temporary blindness .... HOWEVER ... the duration of the blindness would be RNG .. lasting 3,4, or 5 seconds. You need the RNG duration feature for a variety of reasons for both sides.

While blinded, the enemy would be unable to attack ... anyone. However, they would still be able to do things like self heal, block, roll dodge, etc.

Oh yea, I think the changed Agony should be scrapped and replaced with the blindness de-buff.

--> Edit --taking damage while blind will cause the shadow realm's siphon-link to sever, resulting in the immediate return of vision

Feanor

Kilandros wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

I'm ok with the agony change, the only use for it before was to troll people in Cyrodiil in lakes for 30 seconds.

But please can we have the Debilitate skill (Cripple morph) be stamina based? As well as make the "Magicka Flood" passive into a passive that enhances both max stamina and max magicka?
Here's my line of thought:

Debilitate - Now scales with maximum stamina and weapon damage and deals desiese damage. Uppon target death restores 50% of the stamina cost.

Magicka Flood - Renamed to 'Energy Flood'. With a siphoning ability sloted, increasses maxium magicka and stamina by 3%/6%.

I think its long passed we have these one sided passives, and NO ONE uses Debilitate over Crippling Grasp.

I kinda like what you've got going on there with Energy Flood. Don't agree with Debilitate though... We don't have the bar space to run it and it would make Stamblades way too strong. A class with a class spammable and execute AND a DoT? That's way too much.

Power Extraction definitely needs a change though, its just not good enough for an AoE spammable and it will probably never match Steel Tornado, which is why this skill needs a total rework. It has to include some sort of healing component to fit the Siphoning theme and it has to do something other than just being an AoE spammable. Frankly, I'd love for this to be a player based AoE DoT, but that would mean that the skill is far too different from the original morph. One thing is for sure though, the Major Brutality has to be activated even when the skill doesn't touch an enemy.

It seems to me that pre-buffing Major Brutality would be very nightblade. NB's seem to need targets for their buffs, be it for protection (at least for stam), speed, healing through SA or Sap or major brutality/sorcery. I think it's one of the reasons that nightblades are squishy (limited pre-buffs) but it also pushes them towards an aggressive play style.

I think the problem with Power Extraction is that it applies a buff that many people are already running from potions in end game content or competitive pvp. Magika users get brutality (for some reason), sorcery and group healing. Stamina only gets brutality.

Just make Power Extraction proc an additional buff/debuff and people will use it.

Pre-buffing should at least break stealth. Under no circumstance you should be able to get buffs and still stay invisible. This isn't nightblade exclusive of course, but cloak makes it a lot easier for them.

As for the rest, the constant ridiculous buff suggestions are a reason why NBs find close to no sympathy for their concerns. What's next on the NB wish list? Major Mending for 8 seconds when you activate a class ability?

Perhaps you should go to the sorcerer thread instead of trying to get nb nerfed or shooting down every suggestion?

The irony is he spends much of his time on the Sorcerer thread complaining about how underpowered they are and requesting buffs for the class.

The irony is you seem to be unable to comprehend. I never argued for Sorc buffs. I just opposed further nerfs.

Izaki

Maryal wrote: »

Nightblades should be able to siphon the enemy's sight ... (blindness). This type of ability is in line with shadow magic as well s the siphoning tree.

1.) It could be enacted through some type of small ground based trap (traps should only have a 25-50% chance to proc the blindness to avoid them being OP). The blindness would last 3-5 seconds. While 'blind' the enemy would be unable to damage any enemy for the duration, although they could heal themselves, block, roll dodge, etc. The trap would not be visible to the enemy.

2.) Another way this could work is by the caster imbuing themselves with a burst of shadow magic ...upon activation the caster would have numerous dark, wispy, shadowy tendrils radiating outward from their body ...temporary blindness would befall any enemy touched by the shadowy tendrils. There should be a telegraph or something to indicate this spell is OTW so as to give an opportunity for counter play ...kind of like that glow you can see around the caster before Selene procs.

Because this would not be an 'unseen trap' ... any enemy coming in contact with the tendrils would 100% suffer temporary blindness .... HOWEVER ... the duration of the blindness would be RNG .. lasting 3,4, or 5 seconds. You need the RNG duration feature for a variety of reasons for both sides.

While blinded, the enemy would be unable to attack ... anyone. However, they would still be able to do things like heal, block, roll dodge, etc.

Oh yea, I think the changed Agony should be scrapped and replaced with the blindness de-buff.

Yeah... This is a bit of a strech.

Maryal

Izaki wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Nightblades should be able to siphon the enemy's sight ... (blindness). This type of ability is in line with shadow magic as well s the siphoning tree.

1.) It could be enacted through some type of small ground based trap (traps should only have a 25-50% chance to proc the blindness to avoid them being OP). The blindness would last 3-5 seconds. While 'blind' the enemy would be unable to damage any enemy for the duration, although they could heal themselves, block, roll dodge, etc. The trap would not be visible to the enemy.

2.) Another way this could work is by the caster imbuing themselves with a burst of shadow magic ...upon activation the caster would have numerous dark, wispy, shadowy tendrils radiating outward from their body ...temporary blindness would befall any enemy touched by the shadowy tendrils. There should be a telegraph or something to indicate this spell is OTW so as to give an opportunity for counter play ...kind of like that glow you can see around the caster before Selene procs.

Because this would not be an 'unseen trap' ... any enemy coming in contact with the tendrils would 100% suffer temporary blindness .... HOWEVER ... the duration of the blindness would be RNG .. lasting 3,4, or 5 seconds. You need the RNG duration feature for a variety of reasons for both sides.

While blinded, the enemy would be unable to attack ... anyone. However, they would still be able to do things like heal, block, roll dodge, etc.

Oh yea, I think the changed Agony should be scrapped and replaced with the blindness de-buff.

Yeah... This is a bit of a strech.

It's call 'thinking outside the box' ...
And .. it is very much in line with shadow magic
And ... it's not the 'same old same old'
And ... it would give uniqueness to NBs

Oh yea!

Kilandros

Feanor wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

I'm ok with the agony change, the only use for it before was to troll people in Cyrodiil in lakes for 30 seconds.

But please can we have the Debilitate skill (Cripple morph) be stamina based? As well as make the "Magicka Flood" passive into a passive that enhances both max stamina and max magicka?
Here's my line of thought:

Debilitate - Now scales with maximum stamina and weapon damage and deals desiese damage. Uppon target death restores 50% of the stamina cost.

Magicka Flood - Renamed to 'Energy Flood'. With a siphoning ability sloted, increasses maxium magicka and stamina by 3%/6%.

I think its long passed we have these one sided passives, and NO ONE uses Debilitate over Crippling Grasp.

I kinda like what you've got going on there with Energy Flood. Don't agree with Debilitate though... We don't have the bar space to run it and it would make Stamblades way too strong. A class with a class spammable and execute AND a DoT? That's way too much.

Power Extraction definitely needs a change though, its just not good enough for an AoE spammable and it will probably never match Steel Tornado, which is why this skill needs a total rework. It has to include some sort of healing component to fit the Siphoning theme and it has to do something other than just being an AoE spammable. Frankly, I'd love for this to be a player based AoE DoT, but that would mean that the skill is far too different from the original morph. One thing is for sure though, the Major Brutality has to be activated even when the skill doesn't touch an enemy.

It seems to me that pre-buffing Major Brutality would be very nightblade. NB's seem to need targets for their buffs, be it for protection (at least for stam), speed, healing through SA or Sap or major brutality/sorcery. I think it's one of the reasons that nightblades are squishy (limited pre-buffs) but it also pushes them towards an aggressive play style.

I think the problem with Power Extraction is that it applies a buff that many people are already running from potions in end game content or competitive pvp. Magika users get brutality (for some reason), sorcery and group healing. Stamina only gets brutality.

Just make Power Extraction proc an additional buff/debuff and people will use it.

Pre-buffing should at least break stealth. Under no circumstance you should be able to get buffs and still stay invisible. This isn't nightblade exclusive of course, but cloak makes it a lot easier for them.

As for the rest, the constant ridiculous buff suggestions are a reason why NBs find close to no sympathy for their concerns. What's next on the NB wish list? Major Mending for 8 seconds when you activate a class ability?

Perhaps you should go to the sorcerer thread instead of trying to get nb nerfed or shooting down every suggestion?

The irony is he spends much of his time on the Sorcerer thread complaining about how underpowered they are and requesting buffs for the class.

The irony is you seem to be unable to comprehend. I never argued for Sorc buffs. I just opposed further nerfs.

And yet you spend much of your time in the DK and NB threads asking for nerfs to those classes. Do you have trouble on Sorc? Is that the issue? Help me understand.

LegacyDM

Are you guys trying to kill the mageblade night blade class? Where do you come up with these crazy ideas that you think is going to make people want to play NB? Seriously? A self damaging heal? A burst proc that requires 5 la to micromanage and can be easily dodged, blocked, or dodge rolled at a flick of the wrist or push of a key? Do you guys sit around the cafeteria lunch table and brainstorm these ideas on a napkin? There's a reason hardly anyone plays a mageblade in pvp and there are better choices n pve trials. I just don't get it.

Why don't you work with the community before you come up with these half assed ideas. Find out what the community wants and solicite feedback and ideas from the community rather than cramming dumb ideas down our throats.

Kolzki

Kolzki wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

I'm ok with the agony change, the only use for it before was to troll people in Cyrodiil in lakes for 30 seconds.

But please can we have the Debilitate skill (Cripple morph) be stamina based? As well as make the "Magicka Flood" passive into a passive that enhances both max stamina and max magicka?
Here's my line of thought:

Debilitate - Now scales with maximum stamina and weapon damage and deals desiese damage. Uppon target death restores 50% of the stamina cost.

Magicka Flood - Renamed to 'Energy Flood'. With a siphoning ability sloted, increasses maxium magicka and stamina by 3%/6%.

I think its long passed we have these one sided passives, and NO ONE uses Debilitate over Crippling Grasp.

I kinda like what you've got going on there with Energy Flood. Don't agree with Debilitate though... We don't have the bar space to run it and it would make Stamblades way too strong. A class with a class spammable and execute AND a DoT? That's way too much.

Power Extraction definitely needs a change though, its just not good enough for an AoE spammable and it will probably never match Steel Tornado, which is why this skill needs a total rework. It has to include some sort of healing component to fit the Siphoning theme and it has to do something other than just being an AoE spammable. Frankly, I'd love for this to be a player based AoE DoT, but that would mean that the skill is far too different from the original morph. One thing is for sure though, the Major Brutality has to be activated even when the skill doesn't touch an enemy.

It seems to me that pre-buffing Major Brutality would be very nightblade. NB's seem to need targets for their buffs, be it for protection (at least for stam), speed, healing through SA or Sap or major brutality/sorcery. I think it's one of the reasons that nightblades are squishy (limited pre-buffs) but it also pushes them towards an aggressive play style.

I think the problem with Power Extraction is that it applies a buff that many people are already running from potions in end game content or competitive pvp. Magika users get brutality (for some reason), sorcery and group healing. Stamina only gets brutality.

Just make Power Extraction proc an additional buff/debuff and people will use it.

Just spotted my typo. I meant to say that pre-buffing is *not* very nightblade. It's a class feature that makes my stam nb the glass cannon that he is and adds balance. Pre-buffing is for the tanky low burst classes.

NBrookus

.

Maryal wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Nightblades should be able to siphon the enemy's sight ... (blindness). This type of ability is in line with shadow magic as well s the siphoning tree.

1.) It could be enacted through some type of small ground based trap (traps should only have a 25-50% chance to proc the blindness to avoid them being OP). The blindness would last 3-5 seconds. While 'blind' the enemy would be unable to damage any enemy for the duration, although they could heal themselves, block, roll dodge, etc. The trap would not be visible to the enemy.

2.) Another way this could work is by the caster imbuing themselves with a burst of shadow magic ...upon activation the caster would have numerous dark, wispy, shadowy tendrils radiating outward from their body ...temporary blindness would befall any enemy touched by the shadowy tendrils. There should be a telegraph or something to indicate this spell is OTW so as to give an opportunity for counter play ...kind of like that glow you can see around the caster before Selene procs.

Because this would not be an 'unseen trap' ... any enemy coming in contact with the tendrils would 100% suffer temporary blindness .... HOWEVER ... the duration of the blindness would be RNG .. lasting 3,4, or 5 seconds. You need the RNG duration feature for a variety of reasons for both sides.

While blinded, the enemy would be unable to attack ... anyone. However, they would still be able to do things like heal, block, roll dodge, etc.

Oh yea, I think the changed Agony should be scrapped and replaced with the blindness de-buff.

Yeah... This is a bit of a strech.

It's call 'thinking outside the box' ...
And .. it is very much in line with shadow magic
And ... it's not the 'same old same old'
And ... it would give uniqueness to NBs

Oh yea!

It was called Blinding Flashes.

Elsterchen

Maryal wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Good skill design is designing skills that are fun to use and useful at all level ranges, especially in a game with extremely limited number of skills you can slot. Skills that aren't too similar to other skills (e.g. Steel Tornado).

It is natural to view the value of our skills/passives through the eyes of our preferred play style, but it is important to keep in mind that there will never be a 'one size fits all' way of gaming. Just because a skill or passive may not be super useful for our chosen play style doesn't mean it isn't awesome for someone else's.

In general:
We have pvp'ers, pve'ers, and a mixture of both
We have people who prefer to group while others prefer to solo
We have people who prefer a more simplistic play style, folks who prefer a more fast pace/challenging playstyle, and folks in between the two
... and for all of the above, we have people with varying levels of experience.

With that in mind, most class skills/passives should work fairly well with most play styles. There will always be some skills/passives that work better with some play as opposed to others, and of those, there should always be a few that work best with more niche play styles.

The same is true for the non-class skill trees such as weapon, fighter's and mage's guild.

What might be nice is if ZOS expanded the fighters/mages guild to 2 skill trees since so many people seem to be in "need" of something they don't currently have, or have access to.

Just jumping in, I agree on the arguments, however i strongly disagree on the conclusion.
Yes, more skills for everyone might seem a fast and satisfying solution, but imo, the way zeni handles its "tweaks" since beta its only going to be "more of the same".

Maybe thats exactly what you want and need, to me this would be final watering down of what I expected from an elder scrolls game to a game that remotely reminds me of elder scrolls because of the graphics. I don't know if you have been put up to decide which class to choose back at launch, after having a little time to gasp a look at all different and unique classes during beta. I have, and I feel that lately zeni is creating a watered down "one size to fit-them-all" - mainstream themepark with an elder scrolls skin. "More of the same" will just nail that coffin for me, maybe some other people too. Its not what i want to see and i know there is another solution.

aeowulf

Feanor wrote: »

In fact I was just saying above that I don't think NB needs more buffs now.

Feanor wrote: »

And yes, my NB playtime is limited. So what?

Are you saying you don't think a class should be buffed because you have limited play time on it? Oh dear...

Can I make a suggestion and that is to provide feedback on classes you actually main?

Or you could be more constructive & let us know what aspects of NB do you believe require nerfs, what aspects you feel are balanced & what aspects do you feel they they need buffs?

There are many aspects to every class, and coming out with a blanket statement about a class is not helpful to any developers looking at a feedback thread. So are you talking about dungeon tanking? What about trial tanking? Or healing in PVP? I can write an essay about NB tanks, why & where they were viable and why & where their limitations were, and what changes happened to break them. I can't say anything about PVP or healing, I know a bit about NB PVE DPS, both dungeon & trials. I know tanking on DK, and warden fairly well, and sorc/templar a bit. I limit my feedback to those scenarios, have you thought about doing the same?

Re the buff from stealth thing, completely agree, should be no buffing from stealth for any class. Potion drinking only. But I personally would like to see more 'siphoning' in general for NB, like siphoning our buffs from enemies instead, not this pre cast stuff.