Ladies and Gents i present you the new Healthy Offering! More like UnHealthy Offering!!!!

CavalryPK

Thanks to this skill. I can literally kill my self in PVP if I need quickly respawn in another keep.. so there is that.

Mystrius_Archaion

That doesn't look like you did it to yourself, but you certainly helped that Verminous Fabricant. You could always let NPCs kill you anyway before.

But yes, health cost skills always see little to no use because hurting yourself when you need all the health you can get in most content is pretty dumb.
I won't be using it on my nightblade, for one, because I can use better heals from other skills without risk.

CavalryPK

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

That doesn't look like you did it to yourself, but you certainly helped that Verminous Fabricant. You could always let NPCs kill you anyway before.

But yes, health cost skills always see little to no use because hurting yourself when you need all the health you can get in most content is pretty dumb.
I won't be using it on my nightblade, for one, because I can use better heals from other skills without risk.

Yeh you get ya self down to nothing.. then let some one smack you

IxSTALKERxI

You can already do this using spell sym and jumping off a keep though. Infact we've always ridden off the back of nikel on our mounts without spell sym and died - allowing us to respawn back at the gate and port to sej when we don't have an open port due to losing roebeck / resources etc.

RoyJade

Nothing new here in a world were spell symmetry exist.

inf.toniceb17_ESO

Well at least SS' morph, Balance, is usable on tanks. Casting unHealthy Offering when you have 20k hp tops is pretty much a suicide.

Izaki

Did they seriously put the cost at 7k Oblivion damage? I gotta get on PTS to see this.

RavenSworn

It's such a weird spell right now. The first iteration for the skill is so much better than this one. It's much easier to manage dot damage than a single, high cost even, damage to cast it.

I blame the initial reaction. They had such a good spell and too many people without even trying out the skill just wailed on it uninformed. I think balance can never be achieved when too many players are thinking of only their side of game play.

danno8

Izaki wrote: »

Did they seriously put the cost at 7k Oblivion damage? I gotta get on PTS to see this.

It's 'cause the damage isn't being affected by Battle Spirit from what I understand. It should be half of that.

CavalryPK

danno8 wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Did they seriously put the cost at 7k Oblivion damage? I gotta get on PTS to see this.

It's 'cause the damage isn't being affected by Battle Spirit from what I understand. It should be half of that.

tested it in duel. you do 7k dmg to your self... every time you cast it. the dmg is not halved.. but the healing is

CavalryPK

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

Well at least SS' morph, Balance, is usable on tanks. Casting unHealthy Offering when you have 20k hp tops is pretty much a suicide.

I love it. Unhealthy Offering! lolz

RoyJade

In pve the 7k damage is really easy to manage. Two simultaneous hots tick (let say : strife + mutagen/spring) will instantly heal you back to full life, and you can even use a shield just before using it. There is so many case when you can cast it without putting you in danger.

In pvp, the 7k damage for halved heal is a little too dangerous. You may mostly cast it when you're out of immediate danger just before/after a healing ward cast on yourself, it'll ask too many micro-management for the heal and the duration. It need more ingame testing, though.

Izaki

RoyJade wrote: »

In pve the 7k damage is really easy to manage. Two simultaneous hots tick (let say : strife + mutagen/spring) will instantly heal you back to full life, and you can even use a shield just before using it. There is so many case when you can cast it without putting you in danger.

In pvp, the 7k damage for halved heal is a little too dangerous. You may mostly cast it when you're out of immediate danger just before/after a healing ward cast on yourself, it'll ask too many micro-management for the heal and the duration. It need more ingame testing, though.

Well this skill won't be used in PvE, will it? Sure even 2 Vigor ticks can out heal that. But what kind of trial group would use a NB healer? Solo play? NBs have more than enough healing already and there isn't any sort of solo PvE content where this skill would be a valuable addition to a skill bar over say Inner Light (because that's literally the only thing you can take off a Magblade's bar).

The problem is PvP, which is where most people were looking forward to using this skill. 7k is basically as strong as my own Surprise Attack. Now if it were halved, then there would be absolutely no problem. 3.5k damage is manageable.

casparian

Izaki wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

In pve the 7k damage is really easy to manage. Two simultaneous hots tick (let say : strife + mutagen/spring) will instantly heal you back to full life, and you can even use a shield just before using it. There is so many case when you can cast it without putting you in danger.

In pvp, the 7k damage for halved heal is a little too dangerous. You may mostly cast it when you're out of immediate danger just before/after a healing ward cast on yourself, it'll ask too many micro-management for the heal and the duration. It need more ingame testing, though.

Well this skill won't be used in PvE, will it? Sure even 2 Vigor ticks can out heal that. But what kind of trial group would use a NB healer? Solo play? NBs have more than enough healing already and there isn't any sort of solo PvE content where this skill would be a valuable addition to a skill bar over say Inner Light (because that's literally the only thing you can take off a Magblade's bar).

The problem is PvP, which is where most people were looking forward to using this skill. 7k is basically as strong as my own Surprise Attack. Now if it were halved, then there would be absolutely no problem. 3.5k damage is manageable.

NB trials healers aren't unheard of.

The problem is that ZOS continues to think of healers as players whose main job is to restore other players' health, instead of players whose job is to buff the team while restoring other players' health. Magblade healers didn't need MOAR HEALING (though the Minor Mending is appreciated), they needed more group utility (a class synergy that isn't Veil of Blades, ways to restore resources to the group other than Orbs, etc.). Unfortunately, ZOS doesn't seem to know what healers do in this game, as they keep introducing sets and skills directed at healers, but which do nothing except add sources of healing -- the one thing healers already have in great abundance.

umagon

I think the problem with the skill comes down to one of the bigger issues about the skills’ design the devs seem to prioritize form over function. And I think they want to keep this idea of the skill using life force to match the skill tree theme. I suggested this in the nightblade feedback:

“How about malevolent offering be changed to use part health and part magicka as a cost. Healthy offering be changed to use health and part magicka as a cost with minor mending being the additive. Shrewd offering be made to scale off stamina and use health and part stamina as a cost with minor protection being the additive. That way there is a choice for magicka/stam/hybrid build types, at the same time preserving the idea of sacrificing life force which goes along with the skill tree theme.”

Izaki

casparian wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

In pve the 7k damage is really easy to manage. Two simultaneous hots tick (let say : strife + mutagen/spring) will instantly heal you back to full life, and you can even use a shield just before using it. There is so many case when you can cast it without putting you in danger.

In pvp, the 7k damage for halved heal is a little too dangerous. You may mostly cast it when you're out of immediate danger just before/after a healing ward cast on yourself, it'll ask too many micro-management for the heal and the duration. It need more ingame testing, though.

Well this skill won't be used in PvE, will it? Sure even 2 Vigor ticks can out heal that. But what kind of trial group would use a NB healer? Solo play? NBs have more than enough healing already and there isn't any sort of solo PvE content where this skill would be a valuable addition to a skill bar over say Inner Light (because that's literally the only thing you can take off a Magblade's bar).

The problem is PvP, which is where most people were looking forward to using this skill. 7k is basically as strong as my own Surprise Attack. Now if it were halved, then there would be absolutely no problem. 3.5k damage is manageable.

NB trials healers aren't unheard of.

The problem is that ZOS continues to think of healers as players whose main job is to restore other players' health, instead of players whose job is to buff the team while restoring other players' health. Magblade healers didn't need MOAR HEALING (though the Minor Mending is appreciated), they needed more group utility (a class synergy that isn't Veil of Blades, ways to restore resources to the group other than Orbs, etc.). Unfortunately, ZOS doesn't seem to know what healers do in this game, as they keep introducing sets and skills directed at healers, but which do nothing except add sources of healing -- the one thing healers already have in great abundance.

Yeah true that. A great example of what you're saying is the Warden actually, who have a whole bloody skill tree that does nothing other than healing (and then they have some heals in the skill line that is meant to be for tanking only). I don't agree too much on the sets however, most of the trial sets meant for healers are focused on buffing the group: Mending reduces the incoming damage, Twilight Rememdy (sucks) provides a damage buff, Spell Power Cure also provides a damage buff (not a trial set though), Worm helps with resource management for magicka DDs (used to be a trial set), Inventor's Guard gives a defensive buff, Sanctuary is great for dealing with healing debuffs (vMoL HM), etc. Then of course most of the other healing sets, especially the monster sets, just give extra sources of healing.

danno8

CavalryPK wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Did they seriously put the cost at 7k Oblivion damage? I gotta get on PTS to see this.

It's 'cause the damage isn't being affected by Battle Spirit from what I understand. It should be half of that.

tested it in duel. you do 7k dmg to your self... every time you cast it. the dmg is not halved.. but the healing is

Yes that's what I said. Damage from other players in Cyrodiil (or in a duel) should be half. But since this damage comes from oneself I'm sure ZoS simply didn't code it properly.

Remember when Strife, Puncturing Sweeps, Radiant Glory and all other skills that do healing based on the damage done were double dipping into that mechanic, such that the damage was halved so then the healing was halved, but then the healing was halved a second time? Well this is basically that problem in reverse.

I'm sure ZoS will fix it, it's just that they tend to never get anything new coded correctly the first time, lol.

Lexxypwns

7k is too much, 5.5k is the sweet spot imo. Then you can build to overcome the damage but only if you're building for the minor mending on a heavy healing build. 7k is too much without a burst heal.

At 7k it's only usable on tanks and heavy stamblade duel specs and only when you enter cloak with full health and have a rally burst heal you need to refresh to keep your buffs up, then it's worth casting right before you refresh rally, if it doesnt break cloak. That's too niche, agony was better than this. I'm sad because this skill had the potential to make me say goodbye to cloak forever

DeadlyRecluse

7k is a lot. As powerful of a HoT as it is, it's gotta be up there, but at 7k it becomes a very risky cast outside of prefight.

CavalryPK

you guys did notice that healing was reduced? my tooltip used to say 19k healing now it sais 15k healing.

RoyJade

CavalryPK wrote: »

you guys did notice that healing was reduced? my tooltip used to say 19k healing now it sais 15k healing.

Perhaps due to the 2 second less duration ?

And while I'm thinking abut it, I'm afraid that the pvp cost not halved is not a bug. Oblivion damage is the only type of damage who isn't affected by battle spirit : oblivion glyphs, spell symmetry and now healthy offering does exactly the same amount of damage in pvp and in pve, and only by following the classic ingame mechanic...

Kilandros

CavalryPK wrote: »

you guys did notice that healing was reduced? my tooltip used to say 19k healing now it sais 15k healing.

My tooltip is over 20k

Maulkin

Bad change in my humble opinion. At least when it was a DoT and a HoT it meant that you never took that big loss of early HP.

If you are in a Trial as a healer with 17-18k HP, using this puts you straight in the danger zone where one stray attack from the boss or a mob will knock you out. Whereas before it was just about carefully managing who you apply it to so you don't over-damage yourself. But with careful application you'd never dip below 90% HP.

I don't know, seem like a bad change in my eyes due to early QQ.

danno8

RoyJade wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

you guys did notice that healing was reduced? my tooltip used to say 19k healing now it sais 15k healing.

Perhaps due to the 2 second less duration ?

And while I'm thinking abut it, I'm afraid that the pvp cost not halved is not a bug. Oblivion damage is the only type of damage who isn't affected by battle spirit : oblivion glyphs, spell symmetry and now healthy offering does exactly the same amount of damage in pvp and in pve, and only by following the classic ingame mechanic...

You're missing a couple of facts though.

First, the Oblivion damage enchant was reduced by 36% for HoTR.

Also, Spell Symmetry does cost the same health in PvE and PvP, BUT the amount of magicka restored is also the same.

So I still think they simply forgot about what would happen to this skill in PvP, especially given how they have overlooked so many other skills that have a similar "dependency" on damage or healing.

mb10

LOL its too far to turn back now

Scraping the idea will make ZOS look like fools but this is really quite embarrassing on their side.

An absolutely TERRIBLE idea of a skill. Whoever thought of it is a fool and probably quite bad at the game.

CavalryPK

The only reason they changed it to upfront health cost was due to ppl in trails. not able to stop the dmg tics.... Wrobl's words not mine from the ESO live. So this change has a PVE written all over it...... ugh

Where is the love for pvpers ?

IxSTALKERxI

I think it's cool that the combat team are trying something different. Takes a lot of balls. So good on them imo. Kinda why this skill peaked my interest. Tbh I'm not really sure how you would go about making this ability effective - it's a mechanic that hasn't really been in the game before so would take a lot of playing around with to work out how to make it best fit in with the games content.

CavalryPK

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I think it's cool that the combat team are trying something different. Takes a lot of balls. So good on them imo. Kinda why this skill peaked my interest. Tbh I'm not really sure how you would go about making this ability effective - it's a mechanic that hasn't really been in the game before so would take a lot of playing around with to work out how to make it best fit in with the games content.

i used this skill in many duels... horrible horrible idea. dmg is to high. duration is short.. to much micromanaging.

first week of PTS.... the skill was wired .. but I saw the benefit after using it for a while. This change is an un necessary pressure on your self ... when you are fighting a competent player.

IxSTALKERxI

CavalryPK wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I think it's cool that the combat team are trying something different. Takes a lot of balls. So good on them imo. Kinda why this skill peaked my interest. Tbh I'm not really sure how you would go about making this ability effective - it's a mechanic that hasn't really been in the game before so would take a lot of playing around with to work out how to make it best fit in with the games content.

i used this skill in many duels... horrible horrible idea. dmg is to high. duration is short.. to much micromanaging.

first week of PTS.... the skill was wired .. but I saw the benefit after using it for a while. This change is an un necessary pressure on your self ... when you are fighting a competent player.

Yeah I think the ability still needs work - the only way I think mechanics like this can be effective is when damage shields are brought into the equation.

Kilandros

CavalryPK wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I think it's cool that the combat team are trying something different. Takes a lot of balls. So good on them imo. Kinda why this skill peaked my interest. Tbh I'm not really sure how you would go about making this ability effective - it's a mechanic that hasn't really been in the game before so would take a lot of playing around with to work out how to make it best fit in with the games content.

i used this skill in many duels... horrible horrible idea. dmg is to high. duration is short.. to much micromanaging.

first week of PTS.... the skill was wired .. but I saw the benefit after using it for a while. This change is an un necessary pressure on your self ... when you are fighting a competent player.

They were pretty quick to rework the base mechanic after the initial iteration so there's still a chance they'll tweak the numbers. That being said, I don't think it's quite as weak as you're suggesting (in part because duels are literally the worst indicator of a skill's open world performance, but I know on the pts there's no open world pvp to be had). The skill definitely has loads of potential for duos and small-scale groups who rely on cross heals rather than a designated healer.

SirMewser

Let's just say, hypothetically, I am infected with 5 different diseases all beginning with the letter "H", do my allies receive debuffs like an HIV+ bonus when I use this skill?