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My thoughts on improving Cyrodiil

Ghost-Shot
Ghost-Shot
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Warning, this post is going to be fairly long, tl/dr at the bottom. I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately and have come up with some ideas that would, in my opinion, improve both the gameplay experience and reward structure in Cyrodiil. From how the map is played (when it’s actually played at all) to how PvPers gear up, I think it’s time for a serious overhaul. I don’t want to get in to balance discussions in this post, we know it’s a problem and we have discussed it to death over the last few months, we have a balance patch coming up so it’s probably best to see where that goes before beating that horse again. Would love to hear everyone’s input and find out if these are all *** ideas or not!

Gear
In theory, having gear available in the towns was a cool idea but in practice, it’s really annoying. Our purchasable PvP gear needs to be moved back to the gates and made a little more reasonable to acquire. I know that those vendors are pretty much the only reason to go visit the towns right now; I’ll address that issue later.

Ok so first thing to address is the vendors. It’s clear that ZOS is set on using RNG boxes but they don’t have to be as bad as they are now. What should happen is take the 3 vendors, like they are now, so you have a light armor vendor, medium armor vendor, and heavy armor vendor, and put them at one of each faction’s gates. This way you always have access to all the gear vendors regardless of alliance without having to ride across the map and try and cap a town while some scrub is in stealth waiting to flip flags behind you. Then instead of selling one box that can drop every piece of Desert Rose for example, they would have boxes that drop Desert Rose shoes, Desert Rose pants, Desert Rose jewelry and so on. You still maintain some RNG and people don’t gear up immediately but it becomes reasonable. I know the PvE crowd needs some help in this area too, VMA is a real ***, but that is a topic for another post.

Malestrom/Master weapons, or at least some alternative, need to be available by some means through PvP. In the past, we had a chance to get Master weapons from the end of campaign rewards, that would be a good way to start if you are opposed to directly purchasing them for a huge amount of AP. PvEers complain all the time about having to PvP for things like vigor and caltrops so they were made easier for them to obtain, why don’t we get the same treatment?

The next thing to address is rewards for the worthy mails. The items offered in rewards for the worthy were last updated with the Thieves Guild DLC in March; we have been receiving the exact same items for 9 months now. It’s very important that the sets available through rewards for the worthy are updated every few months to give us useful items with the mails. When a group of sets is cycled out of the reward mails, they should be placed on a vendor at the main gates who sells them in boxes. This could be a good implementation of gear seasons, with each vendor carrying a particular season’s gear.

Campaign Scoring & Reward Structure
Let’s be real here, very few people care about the map or winning campaigns anymore (before someone comes in all triggered, I know some of you still do, you are just a minority these days) and that’s pretty sad, Cyrodiil is an AvA zone after all. I believe the lack of interest in winning campaigns is due to the lack of rewards for doing so. If my alliance wins a 30 day campaign and I have tier 3 rewards and I’m in the top 2% for AP earned, I get 30K gold, a few gold items that will likely be trash or something I’ve had for 8 months already and a few wall repairs. There is no incentive there for most of your guild raids and small man’s to care about.

Reward Structure Solution:
First thing is to add two more tiers to end of campaign rewards, tier 4 at 500k AP, tier 5 at 1 million AP. Tier 4 would put your rewards up to 75k gold, 5 pieces of epic gear, and a full stack of repair kits. Tier 5 gets you 150k gold, 5 gold items, a stack of wall repairs and a stack of door repairs, if your alliance wins the campaign. I’m not entirely sure about this one, but maybe when an alliance wins a campaign, the following cycle the get a 10% AP earned bonus. I realize this seems like huge rewards but if you want people to care, the incentive has to be there.

Campaign Score Solution:
The everything is worth 1 point score system needs to go, there is no reason to spread out to different places on the map when none of those locations are actually valuable targets. I have come up with some numbers that I think would be good for score values, would love to hear what everyone thinks about them:

Tri-keeps (Rayles/Wraden/Glademist ) = 5 points each
Tri-keep resources = 2 points each
Dragon/Drake/Brindle and their resources = 3 points each
Emp ring keeps & resources = 2 points for home keeps, 1 point for enemy keeps
Outposts = 2 points each
Towns = 5 points each
Scrolls = 10 points each

Provided proper rewards are implemented for winning a campaign, having higher value targets deep in enemy territory would help spreading people out on the map, you are still going to have the frontline zerg on the ring (it’s never going away, just accept that) but you will also have the more organized forces all over the place.

The other possible way to make people care about the map is probably going to be a bit of a controversial one but I will put it out there anyway, campaign buffs in PvE. I know it creates some issues for leaderboards but I know a lot of people who only ever tried PvP to help get their buff servers back and ended up loving it, it’s a great way to make people want to hold a map and bring new players into PvP. Even when we had enough campaigns to have proper buff servers, going in a breaking up an enemy held buff server was always a fun thing for guilds to do while main servers were slow.

Awesome suggestion by @Crispen_Longbow to gate scoring times by campaign:
Ghost-Shot wrote: »
Campaign Scoring & Reward Structure
Let’s be real here, very few people care about the map or winning campaigns anymore (before someone comes in all triggered, I know some of you still do, you are just a minority these days) and that’s pretty sad, Cyrodiil is an AvA zone after all. I believe the lack of interest in winning campaigns is due to the lack of rewards for doing so. If my alliance wins a 30 day campaign and I have tier 3 rewards and I’m in the top 2% for AP earned, I get 30K gold, a few gold items that will likely be trash or something I’ve had for 8 months already and a few wall repairs. There is no incentive there for most of your guild raids and small man’s to care about.

Campaign Score Solution:
The everything is worth 1 point score system needs to go, there is no reason to spread out to different places on the map when none of those locations are actually valuable targets. I have come up with some numbers that I think would be good for score values, would love to hear what everyone thinks about them:

All of the above are great suggestions. I believe we are missing one crucial one for people to care about campaign wins. Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.

Trueflame
5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

Haderus
5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

Azuras Star
5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)

This would force players to choose timezones that they are active in and end the Night capping / Day Capping issues. This would also help to push different play-styles at different times. Objective play during Primetime Scoring and Emp Pushes, AP farming on off hours.

Alliance Points
Alliance points have been pretty useless for a long time now, I remember when asked about adding things to be purchased for AP, @Wrobel cited the huge sums of AP that some have accumulated as a reason to be cautious adding things but that is only a problem because there is nothing worth buying. The changes to gearing I discussed earlier would go a long way in clearing some of that AP up but we need more. Adding the flower satchels to the Tel Var vendor was an awesome move, maybe having an AP variant as well would be good. Gold tempers would be nice to purchase with AP too, something like 31,250 AP would work out to 250K AP to upgrade one item, I think that’s reasonable.

Cosmetic things are great too, I can’t speak for everyone here but I know for me it was a slap in the face that the alliance themed horses were a cash shop thing and not a PvP reward. I know your cash shop is where the money comes from but give us something. I would like to see the alliance style motifs added to the vendors, maybe some cool costumes or polymorphs like you can buy in IC. With housing coming up there is a huge opportunity to add items we can use in our houses to an AP vendor.

TL/DR:
Make gearing through PvP a viable possibility and continually update rewards for the worthy. Make end of campaign rewards for the winning alliance worth putting in the effort to win a campaign. Provide things to spend our AP on, the only way you will ever dry up the huge supplies of AP that some people have is by making it a useful currency again. I look forward to hearing everyone’s feedback and input on what I went overboard with or anything I missed, let’s make Cyrodiil great again!
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

Edit 12/8 to add time gated scoring suggestion.
Edited by Ghost-Shot on December 9, 2016 1:18AM
<Vehemence Officer>

DC Dark Elf DK - Ghóst-Shot - AR 39 - Legate
DC Imperial Templar - Ghóst Shot - AR 26
DC High Elf Warden - Ghöst Shot - AR 15
EP Dark Elf DK - Ghòst-Shot - AR 23 - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
EP High Elf Sorcerer - Ghost Shót - AR 11
AD High Elf Sorcerer - Ghost Shöt - AR 10
  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
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    HoloYoitsu wrote: »
    1fl7af.jpg

    Cyrodiil balance will be bad as long as they wait 3-4 months to fix balance issues. When they nerf procs sets something else will take their place and we'll have to wait until July to get a fix.
    V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
    V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
    V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
    V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
    V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)

  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    Great suggestions OP! I really like the scoring suggestion!

    How about also instead of gear, rewards for the worthy could contain either some bonus AP to spend OR a token for a free RNG bag at the towns (and make sure all those current mail sets are available at the Cyrodiil vendors). Those mails are worthless and do nothing but clog your inventory with crap you don't want. At least this change would make you go to the town and buy something you do want.
  • SneaK
    SneaK
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    Something needs to be done about the scoring and the AP system no doubt about it. However, I'm not sure if I read it all right but it seems like the things you've mentioned would put more emphasis on AP farming and not objective play. Being able to acquire all those materials/sets with certain amounts of AP, just puts more emphasis on AP farming which is why Cyrodiil is so shallow currently. They need to tie AP to objective play, as well as winning campaigns, etc.

    A couple things I think may help, would be to have some sort of AP offensive/defensive bonus. Not "ticks or flip ticks" but just like other games do in certain game modes like Domination. You kill an enemy on one of your keep flags, he's worth AP+DefensiveBonusAP... I think Offensive bonuses should be worth a little more than defense, in that if I participate in wiping a group while taking an enemy keep, that group is worth more than normal amounts of AP, would be AP+OffensiveBonusAP. This would promote objective game play in the since that even AP farmers would siege keeps to get in there and fight. They could maybe even scale the bonuses with how you have the scoring system listed, defense/offense bonuses are bigger at certain keeps. Another thing that I think they NEED TO DO, is replace the Home Keep Bonus with the Blessing of War bonus. That would also promote AP farmers to at least own their home keeps.

    I think Master Weapons in rewards of the worthy would be a great thing, but should be scaled for winning/losing campaigns. Like, 50% chance for top 5% AP gained of the winning faction, 25% chance for top 5% AP gained of the 2nd place faction, no chance for losers.
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • Ghost-Shot
    Ghost-Shot
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    Ghost-Shot wrote: »
    Campaign Scoring & Reward Structure
    Let’s be real here, very few people care about the map or winning campaigns anymore (before someone comes in all triggered, I know some of you still do, you are just a minority these days) and that’s pretty sad, Cyrodiil is an AvA zone after all. I believe the lack of interest in winning campaigns is due to the lack of rewards for doing so. If my alliance wins a 30 day campaign and I have tier 3 rewards and I’m in the top 2% for AP earned, I get 30K gold, a few gold items that will likely be trash or something I’ve had for 8 months already and a few wall repairs. There is no incentive there for most of your guild raids and small man’s to care about.

    Campaign Score Solution:
    The everything is worth 1 point score system needs to go, there is no reason to spread out to different places on the map when none of those locations are actually valuable targets. I have come up with some numbers that I think would be good for score values, would love to hear what everyone thinks about them:

    All of the above are great suggestions. I believe we are missing one crucial one for people to care about campaign wins. Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.

    Trueflame
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Haderus
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Azuras Star
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)

    This would force players to choose timezones that they are active in and end the Night capping / Day Capping issues. This would also help to push different play-styles at different times. Objective play during Primetime Scoring and Emp Pushes, AP farming on off hours.

    I really like that suggestion Crispy!
    SneaK wrote: »
    Something needs to be done about the scoring and the AP system no doubt about it. However, I'm not sure if I read it all right but it seems like the things you've mentioned would put more emphasis on AP farming and not objective play. Being able to acquire all those materials/sets with certain amounts of AP, just puts more emphasis on AP farming which is why Cyrodiil is so shallow currently. They need to tie AP to objective play, as well as winning campaigns, etc.

    A couple things I think may help, would be to have some sort of AP offensive/defensive bonus. Not "ticks or flip ticks" but just like other games do in certain game modes like Domination. You kill an enemy on one of your keep flags, he's worth AP+DefensiveBonusAP... I think Offensive bonuses should be worth a little more than defense, in that if I participate in wiping a group while taking an enemy keep, that group is worth more than normal amounts of AP, would be AP+OffensiveBonusAP. This would promote objective game play in the since that even AP farmers would siege keeps to get in there and fight. They could maybe even scale the bonuses with how you have the scoring system listed, defense/offense bonuses are bigger at certain keeps. Another thing that I think they NEED TO DO, is replace the Home Keep Bonus with the Blessing of War bonus. That would also promote AP farmers to at least own their home keeps.

    I think Master Weapons in rewards of the worthy would be a great thing, but should be scaled for winning/losing campaigns. Like, 50% chance for top 5% AP gained of the winning faction, 25% chance for top 5% AP gained of the 2nd place faction, no chance for losers.

    The AP farming is never going to stop anyway, so we may as well get things to use all that AP on and get the population spread out a bit in the process.
    <Vehemence Officer>

    DC Dark Elf DK - Ghóst-Shot - AR 39 - Legate
    DC Imperial Templar - Ghóst Shot - AR 26
    DC High Elf Warden - Ghöst Shot - AR 15
    EP Dark Elf DK - Ghòst-Shot - AR 23 - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    EP High Elf Sorcerer - Ghost Shót - AR 11
    AD High Elf Sorcerer - Ghost Shöt - AR 10
  • SneaK
    SneaK
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    Ghost-Shot wrote: »
    SneaK wrote: »
    Something needs to be done about the scoring and the AP system no doubt about it. However, I'm not sure if I read it all right but it seems like the things you've mentioned would put more emphasis on AP farming and not objective play. Being able to acquire all those materials/sets with certain amounts of AP, just puts more emphasis on AP farming which is why Cyrodiil is so shallow currently. They need to tie AP to objective play, as well as winning campaigns, etc.

    A couple things I think may help, would be to have some sort of AP offensive/defensive bonus. Not "ticks or flip ticks" but just like other games do in certain game modes like Domination. You kill an enemy on one of your keep flags, he's worth AP+DefensiveBonusAP... I think Offensive bonuses should be worth a little more than defense, in that if I participate in wiping a group while taking an enemy keep, that group is worth more than normal amounts of AP, would be AP+OffensiveBonusAP. This would promote objective game play in the since that even AP farmers would siege keeps to get in there and fight. They could maybe even scale the bonuses with how you have the scoring system listed, defense/offense bonuses are bigger at certain keeps. Another thing that I think they NEED TO DO, is replace the Home Keep Bonus with the Blessing of War bonus. That would also promote AP farmers to at least own their home keeps.

    I think Master Weapons in rewards of the worthy would be a great thing, but should be scaled for winning/losing campaigns. Like, 50% chance for top 5% AP gained of the winning faction, 25% chance for top 5% AP gained of the 2nd place faction, no chance for losers.

    The AP farming is never going to stop anyway, so we may as well get things to use all that AP on and get the population spread out a bit in the process.

    Right... I never said the AP farming would stop btw. I proposed a couple things that I think would shift the areas the AP farmers fight, in that they'd be fighting, maybe indirectly, to help win the campaign. To me, that's how we could improve Cyrodiil, not just more stuff to use AP on..
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    Good post.

    I love their justification for not adding anything worthwhile to be purchased by AP. We can't put anything valuable for AP because people have to much AP because they have nothing valuable to purchase. Yep that sounds like ZOS.

    About PvE buffs. I have been thinking along those same lines. There were other ways to fix the situation back then but they went this route because it was the easiest. So now we have no reason for people to try PvP if they haven't before, and because PvP has gotten so bad it doesn't really get advertised as a selling point. Numbers have now dwindled to really 1 campaign despite the large influx of Japanese players.

    If we restore the old buff we will get the same problem as last time but there are other ways we can do it. If we add performance buffs in PvE we will get the random guild zerging but if we add personal buffs we should only get personal participation. For example...
    • % increase to material harvested from nodes and chance to double alchemy harvest
    • increased chance for a chest to drop a weapon/shield or Jewelry
    • % chance to acquire a gold item from refining and craft 2 extra potions.
    All those buffs will draw individuals not zergs.

    To make the score valuable you can attach each of these 3 buffs to scoreboard so if you are in last place you get 1 buff, second place 2 buffs, 1st place all 3 buffs. You can also make the towns act as a multiplier for those 3 buffs. Capturing a town gives a 1hr long multiplier bonus to the score bonus that refreshes each hour if the flag is not flipped.
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • booksmcread
    booksmcread
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    Ghost-Shot wrote: »
    Warning, this post is going to be fairly long, tl/dr at the bottom. I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately and have come up with some ideas that would, in my opinion, improve both the gameplay experience and reward structure in Cyrodiil. From how the map is played (when it’s actually played at all) to how PvPers gear up, I think it’s time for a serious overhaul. I don’t want to get in to balance discussions in this post, we know it’s a problem and we have discussed it to death over the last few months, we have a balance patch coming up so it’s probably best to see where that goes before beating that horse again. Would love to hear everyone’s input and find out if these are all *** ideas or not!

    Gear
    In theory, having gear available in the towns was a cool idea but in practice, it’s really annoying. Our purchasable PvP gear needs to be moved back to the gates and made a little more reasonable to acquire. I know that those vendors are pretty much the only reason to go visit the towns right now; I’ll address that issue later.

    Ok so first thing to address is the vendors. It’s clear that ZOS is set on using RNG boxes but they don’t have to be as bad as they are now. What should happen is take the 3 vendors, like they are now, so you have a light armor vendor, medium armor vendor, and heavy armor vendor, and put them at one of each faction’s gates. This way you always have access to all the gear vendors regardless of alliance without having to ride across the map and try and cap a town while some scrub is in stealth waiting to flip flags behind you. Then instead of selling one box that can drop every piece of Desert Rose for example, they would have boxes that drop Desert Rose shoes, Desert Rose pants, Desert Rose jewelry and so on. You still maintain some RNG and people don’t gear up immediately but it becomes reasonable. I know the PvE crowd needs some help in this area too, VMA is a real ***, but that is a topic for another post.

    Malestrom/Master weapons, or at least some alternative, need to be available by some means through PvP. In the past, we had a chance to get Master weapons from the end of campaign rewards, that would be a good way to start if you are opposed to directly purchasing them for a huge amount of AP. PvEers complain all the time about having to PvP for things like vigor and caltrops so they were made easier for them to obtain, why don’t we get the same treatment?

    The next thing to address is rewards for the worthy mails. The items offered in rewards for the worthy were last updated with the Thieves Guild DLC in March; we have been receiving the exact same items for 9 months now. It’s very important that the sets available through rewards for the worthy are updated every few months to give us useful items with the mails. When a group of sets is cycled out of the reward mails, they should be placed on a vendor at the main gates who sells them in boxes. This could be a good implementation of gear seasons, with each vendor carrying a particular season’s gear.

    Campaign Scoring & Reward Structure
    Let’s be real here, very few people care about the map or winning campaigns anymore (before someone comes in all triggered, I know some of you still do, you are just a minority these days) and that’s pretty sad, Cyrodiil is an AvA zone after all. I believe the lack of interest in winning campaigns is due to the lack of rewards for doing so. If my alliance wins a 30 day campaign and I have tier 3 rewards and I’m in the top 2% for AP earned, I get 30K gold, a few gold items that will likely be trash or something I’ve had for 8 months already and a few wall repairs. There is no incentive there for most of your guild raids and small man’s to care about.

    Reward Structure Solution:
    First thing is to add two more tiers to end of campaign rewards, tier 4 at 500k AP, tier 5 at 1 million AP. Tier 4 would put your rewards up to 75k gold, 5 pieces of epic gear, and a full stack of repair kits. Tier 5 gets you 150k gold, 5 gold items, a stack of wall repairs and a stack of door repairs, if your alliance wins the campaign. I’m not entirely sure about this one, but maybe when an alliance wins a campaign, the following cycle the get a 10% AP earned bonus. I realize this seems like huge rewards but if you want people to care, the incentive has to be there.

    Campaign Score Solution:
    The everything is worth 1 point score system needs to go, there is no reason to spread out to different places on the map when none of those locations are actually valuable targets. I have come up with some numbers that I think would be good for score values, would love to hear what everyone thinks about them:

    Tri-keeps (Rayles/Wraden/Glademist ) = 5 points each
    Tri-keep resources = 2 points each
    Dragon/Drake/Brindle and their resources = 3 points each
    Emp ring keeps & resources = 2 points for home keeps, 1 point for enemy keeps
    Outposts = 2 points each
    Towns = 5 points each
    Scrolls = 10 points each

    Provided proper rewards are implemented for winning a campaign, having higher value targets deep in enemy territory would help spreading people out on the map, you are still going to have the frontline zerg on the ring (it’s never going away, just accept that) but you will also have the more organized forces all over the place.

    The other possible way to make people care about the map is probably going to be a bit of a controversial one but I will put it out there anyway, campaign buffs in PvE. I know it creates some issues for leaderboards but I know a lot of people who only ever tried PvP to help get their buff servers back and ended up loving it, it’s a great way to make people want to hold a map and bring new players into PvP. Even when we had enough campaigns to have proper buff servers, going in a breaking up an enemy held buff server was always a fun thing for guilds to do while main servers were slow.

    Alliance Points
    Alliance points have been pretty useless for a long time now, I remember when asked about adding things to be purchased for AP, @Wrobel cited the huge sums of AP that some have accumulated as a reason to be cautious adding things but that is only a problem because there is nothing worth buying. The changes to gearing I discussed earlier would go a long way in clearing some of that AP up but we need more. Adding the flower satchels to the Tel Var vendor was an awesome move, maybe having an AP variant as well would be good. Gold tempers would be nice to purchase with AP too, something like 31,250 AP would work out to 250K AP to upgrade one item, I think that’s reasonable.

    Cosmetic things are great too, I can’t speak for everyone here but I know for me it was a slap in the face that the alliance themed horses were a cash shop thing and not a PvP reward. I know your cash shop is where the money comes from but give us something. I would like to see the alliance style motifs added to the vendors, maybe some cool costumes or polymorphs like you can buy in IC. With housing coming up there is a huge opportunity to add items we can use in our houses to an AP vendor.

    TL/DR:
    Make gearing through PvP a viable possibility and continually update rewards for the worthy. Make end of campaign rewards for the winning alliance worth putting in the effort to win a campaign. Provide things to spend our AP on, the only way you will ever dry up the huge supplies of AP that some people have is by making it a useful currency again. I look forward to hearing everyone’s feedback and input on what I went overboard with or anything I missed, let’s make Cyrodiil great again!
    @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

    giphy.gif
  • DHale
    DHale
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    People that run at night would have a huge advantage. Not in favor of any scoring changes.
    Sorcerna, proud beta sorc.
    RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases.
    Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Beacuse a 6 k shield is f ing useless.
    Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew.
    16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 1444 plus 16 level 50 toons.
    NA, PC, Kaal
    #SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.
  • Jazbay_Grape
    Jazbay_Grape
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    Well, for what it's worth, I like ... every single one of your suggestions.
  • Crispen_Longbow
    Crispen_Longbow
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    DHale wrote: »
    People that run at night would have a huge advantage. Not in favor of any scoring changes.

    Read my section about locking scoring by time. Would solve any scoring advantages from night/day caps.

    All of the above are great suggestions. I believe we are missing one crucial one for people to care about campaign wins. Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.

    Trueflame
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Haderus
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Azuras Star
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    Crispen Longbow - Daggerfall Covenant (DC): NB - Rank:50 (NA/PC) - RIP (VE, Khole, LoM, MO)
    Crispen Longboww - Aldmeri Dominion(AD): NB - Rank:45 (NA/PC) - Omni
  • Sallington
    Sallington
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    DHale wrote: »
    People that run at night would have a huge advantage. Not in favor of any scoring changes.

    Read my section about locking scoring by time. Would solve any scoring advantages from night/day caps.

    All of the above are great suggestions. I believe we are missing one crucial one for people to care about campaign wins. Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.

    Trueflame
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Haderus
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Azuras Star
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)

    Genius suggestion. I love it.
    Daggerfall Covenant
    Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
    Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
    Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
    Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DHale wrote: »
    People that run at night would have a huge advantage. Not in favor of any scoring changes.

    Read my section about locking scoring by time. Would solve any scoring advantages from night/day caps.

    All of the above are great suggestions. I believe we are missing one crucial one for people to care about campaign wins. Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.

    Trueflame
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Haderus
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Azuras Star
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)

    This would help greatly.

    Though I don't think the scoring is enough to help pull zergs away.

    The very least, we need the town's to contribute to the scoreboard, but it still won't solve players looking to get an hour's worth of pure pvp. That means we need more battles that are both off the inner keep ring's path and won't entice large zergs pulling down the server performance:

    - the town's must be connected via travel ports and additional towns created. This should let factions gain other footholds and entice players to defend or attack the objectives.
    - The towns must have their own unique way of adding to the score board.
    - the winning faction must earn a chance to get Maelstrom gear. All sets, aside from bound on pick up and monster helms, must be available at faction wins/reward teirs. Without uptodate gear incentive attached to the score, I'm afraid no one aside from us "score jockeys" will care if factions win.
    - rewards of the worthy should drop all sets. The RNG would still be annoying, but at least you can get spinners without sitting around for a boss to spawn.


    That's my contribution. I'm sure I'll have more.
    Edited by Minno on December 8, 2016 8:56PM
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Sallington
    Sallington
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    DHale wrote: »
    People that run at night would have a huge advantage. Not in favor of any scoring changes.

    Read my section about locking scoring by time. Would solve any scoring advantages from night/day caps.

    All of the above are great suggestions. I believe we are missing one crucial one for people to care about campaign wins. Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.

    Trueflame
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Haderus
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Azuras Star
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)

    This would help greatly.

    Though I don't think the scoring is enough to help pull zergs away.

    The very least, we need the town's to contribute to the scoreboard, but it still won't solve players looking to get an hour's worth of pure pvp. That means we need more battles that are both off the inner keep ring's path and won't entice large zergs pulling down the server performance:

    - the town's must be connected via travel ports and additional towns created. This should let factions gain other footholds and entice players to defend or attack the objectives.
    - The towns must have their own unique way of adding to the score board.
    - the winning faction must earn a chance to get Maelstrom gear. All sets, aside from bound on pick up and monster helms, must be available at faction wins/reward teirs. Without uptodate gear incentive attached to the score, I'm afraid no one aside from us "score jockeys" will care if factions win.
    - rewards of the worthy should drop all sets. The RNG would still be annoying, but at least you can get spinners without sitting around for a boss to spawn.


    That's my contribution. I'm sure I'll have more.

    I think that extra objectives/towns need to be added for sure, these objectives need to give substantial AP for a capture/defend, AND owning these objectives needs to give a substantial advantage to their associated keeps.

    Owning the towns/camps around a certain keep should allow for extra "supplies" or "soldiers" for reinforcing its respective keep. Maybe these increases the power of guards by a large amount, maybe owning all surrounding objectives spawns a raid-strength Captain of the Guard in the keep or something. Maybe boost a factions resource pools by 10% per objective owned while within the walls of the respective keep.

    Something definitely needs to be done to encourage people to split up between multiple objectives, while still having meaningful contribution to their faction.
    Edited by Sallington on December 8, 2016 9:07PM
    Daggerfall Covenant
    Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
    Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
    Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
    Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sallington wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    DHale wrote: »
    People that run at night would have a huge advantage. Not in favor of any scoring changes.

    Read my section about locking scoring by time. Would solve any scoring advantages from night/day caps.

    All of the above are great suggestions. I believe we are missing one crucial one for people to care about campaign wins. Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.

    Trueflame
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Haderus
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Azuras Star
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)

    This would help greatly.

    Though I don't think the scoring is enough to help pull zergs away.

    The very least, we need the town's to contribute to the scoreboard, but it still won't solve players looking to get an hour's worth of pure pvp. That means we need more battles that are both off the inner keep ring's path and won't entice large zergs pulling down the server performance:

    - the town's must be connected via travel ports and additional towns created. This should let factions gain other footholds and entice players to defend or attack the objectives.
    - The towns must have their own unique way of adding to the score board.
    - the winning faction must earn a chance to get Maelstrom gear. All sets, aside from bound on pick up and monster helms, must be available at faction wins/reward teirs. Without uptodate gear incentive attached to the score, I'm afraid no one aside from us "score jockeys" will care if factions win.
    - rewards of the worthy should drop all sets. The RNG would still be annoying, but at least you can get spinners without sitting around for a boss to spawn.


    That's my contribution. I'm sure I'll have more.

    I think that extra objectives/towns need to be added for sure, these objectives need to give substantial AP for a capture/defend, AND owning these objectives needs to give a substantial advantage to their associated keeps.

    Owning the towns/camps around a certain keep should allow for extra "supplies" or "soldiers" for reinforcing its respective keep. Maybe these increases the power of guards by a large amount, maybe owning all surrounding objectives spawns a raid-strength Captain of the Guard in the keep or something. Maybe boost a factions resource pools by 10% per objective owned while within the walls of the respective keep.

    Something definitely needs to be done to encourage people to split up between multiple objectives, while still having meaningful contribution to their faction.

    Yea, and those changes I can see.

    If we distill cyro combat into a pure ideology, it would be this:
    - everyone just wanted a quick, satisfied fight within 60 minutes.

    As much as we want amazing changes, a player should go to any objective, and find a battle quickly. But here are the problems limiting this simple request:
    - server population were reduced consistently since launch. There aren't enough players to fill up the size of cyro.
    - current pop still can cause annoying lag. Why ride far from a keep with a quick respawn location, when lag will kill your player's responses. Better to just ride from a keep to another keep, and rez quickly to maximize your limited playing time.
    - insane dmg caused people to find insane healing and insane tanking builds. The players that don't have time to plan those heal/tank builds, zerg up to protect themselves. The zergs ride to both keeps/resources and remove incentive to spreadout.
    - gear out of date from pvp rewards. No incentive to go into a town for the trader, when you are already wearing BiS gear. Needs a change like when they added flower bags in IC.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Sallington
    Sallington
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    Sallington wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    DHale wrote: »
    People that run at night would have a huge advantage. Not in favor of any scoring changes.

    Read my section about locking scoring by time. Would solve any scoring advantages from night/day caps.

    All of the above are great suggestions. I believe we are missing one crucial one for people to care about campaign wins. Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.

    Trueflame
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Haderus
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Azuras Star
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)

    This would help greatly.

    Though I don't think the scoring is enough to help pull zergs away.

    The very least, we need the town's to contribute to the scoreboard, but it still won't solve players looking to get an hour's worth of pure pvp. That means we need more battles that are both off the inner keep ring's path and won't entice large zergs pulling down the server performance:

    - the town's must be connected via travel ports and additional towns created. This should let factions gain other footholds and entice players to defend or attack the objectives.
    - The towns must have their own unique way of adding to the score board.
    - the winning faction must earn a chance to get Maelstrom gear. All sets, aside from bound on pick up and monster helms, must be available at faction wins/reward teirs. Without uptodate gear incentive attached to the score, I'm afraid no one aside from us "score jockeys" will care if factions win.
    - rewards of the worthy should drop all sets. The RNG would still be annoying, but at least you can get spinners without sitting around for a boss to spawn.


    That's my contribution. I'm sure I'll have more.

    I think that extra objectives/towns need to be added for sure, these objectives need to give substantial AP for a capture/defend, AND owning these objectives needs to give a substantial advantage to their associated keeps.

    Owning the towns/camps around a certain keep should allow for extra "supplies" or "soldiers" for reinforcing its respective keep. Maybe these increases the power of guards by a large amount, maybe owning all surrounding objectives spawns a raid-strength Captain of the Guard in the keep or something. Maybe boost a factions resource pools by 10% per objective owned while within the walls of the respective keep.

    Something definitely needs to be done to encourage people to split up between multiple objectives, while still having meaningful contribution to their faction.

    Yea, and those changes I can see.

    If we distill cyro combat into a pure ideology, it would be this:
    - everyone just wanted a quick, satisfied fight within 60 minutes.

    As much as we want amazing changes, a player should go to any objective, and find a battle quickly. But here are the problems limiting this simple request:
    - server population were reduced consistently since launch. There aren't enough players to fill up the size of cyro.
    - current pop still can cause annoying lag. Why ride far from a keep with a quick respawn location, when lag will kill your player's responses. Better to just ride from a keep to another keep, and rez quickly to maximize your limited playing time.
    - insane dmg caused people to find insane healing and insane tanking builds. The players that don't have time to plan those heal/tank builds, zerg up to protect themselves. The zergs ride to both keeps/resources and remove incentive to spreadout.
    - gear out of date from pvp rewards. No incentive to go into a town for the trader, when you are already wearing BiS gear. Needs a change like when they added flower bags in IC.

    It all comes down to them not being able to delver on their original promise of "hundreds of players on screen at once", a phrase they've even taken off their website. Their tech just could handle their original vision.

    sadpanda.jpg
    Daggerfall Covenant
    Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
    Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
    Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
    Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||
  • SkylarkX
    SkylarkX
    ✭✭✭✭
    I think they should implement the token system for trials, vMA, vDSA AND PVP campaign rewards - this would get people going.

    Also introducing achievements, titles, dyes and skins for winning campaigns would encourage players to care about map objectives.
    Nocturnal - Oceanic PvX Guild
    Skylärk / Dunmer DK
    Skylårk / Bosmer NB
    Skylörd / Khajiit Sorcerer
    Elizabeth Skylark / Breton Templar
    PC/NA/AD
  • maxjapank
    maxjapank
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like the suggestions, Op. But I'm not in favor of any of the locked scoring that Crispen suggested. It's just my opinion, but I don't think that it is really necessary. Populations are not that bad during Oceanic time, except for EP. And it's my opinion that if one of the factions has a point lead, it's the responsibility of the other two factions to cut into that lead. I like the idea of a 24 hour campaign where guilds from around the world are helping to continue the fight.
    Alchuri Templar Healer /dps
  • HoloYoitsu
    HoloYoitsu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Sallington wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Sallington wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    DHale wrote: »
    People that run at night would have a huge advantage. Not in favor of any scoring changes.

    Read my section about locking scoring by time. Would solve any scoring advantages from night/day caps.

    All of the above are great suggestions. I believe we are missing one crucial one for people to care about campaign wins. Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.

    Trueflame
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Haderus
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Azuras Star
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)

    This would help greatly.

    Though I don't think the scoring is enough to help pull zergs away.

    The very least, we need the town's to contribute to the scoreboard, but it still won't solve players looking to get an hour's worth of pure pvp. That means we need more battles that are both off the inner keep ring's path and won't entice large zergs pulling down the server performance:

    - the town's must be connected via travel ports and additional towns created. This should let factions gain other footholds and entice players to defend or attack the objectives.
    - The towns must have their own unique way of adding to the score board.
    - the winning faction must earn a chance to get Maelstrom gear. All sets, aside from bound on pick up and monster helms, must be available at faction wins/reward teirs. Without uptodate gear incentive attached to the score, I'm afraid no one aside from us "score jockeys" will care if factions win.
    - rewards of the worthy should drop all sets. The RNG would still be annoying, but at least you can get spinners without sitting around for a boss to spawn.


    That's my contribution. I'm sure I'll have more.

    I think that extra objectives/towns need to be added for sure, these objectives need to give substantial AP for a capture/defend, AND owning these objectives needs to give a substantial advantage to their associated keeps.

    Owning the towns/camps around a certain keep should allow for extra "supplies" or "soldiers" for reinforcing its respective keep. Maybe these increases the power of guards by a large amount, maybe owning all surrounding objectives spawns a raid-strength Captain of the Guard in the keep or something. Maybe boost a factions resource pools by 10% per objective owned while within the walls of the respective keep.

    Something definitely needs to be done to encourage people to split up between multiple objectives, while still having meaningful contribution to their faction.

    Yea, and those changes I can see.

    If we distill cyro combat into a pure ideology, it would be this:
    - everyone just wanted a quick, satisfied fight within 60 minutes.

    As much as we want amazing changes, a player should go to any objective, and find a battle quickly. But here are the problems limiting this simple request:
    - server population were reduced consistently since launch. There aren't enough players to fill up the size of cyro.
    - current pop still can cause annoying lag. Why ride far from a keep with a quick respawn location, when lag will kill your player's responses. Better to just ride from a keep to another keep, and rez quickly to maximize your limited playing time.
    - insane dmg caused people to find insane healing and insane tanking builds. The players that don't have time to plan those heal/tank builds, zerg up to protect themselves. The zergs ride to both keeps/resources and remove incentive to spreadout.
    - gear out of date from pvp rewards. No incentive to go into a town for the trader, when you are already wearing BiS gear. Needs a change like when they added flower bags in IC.

    It all comes down to them not being able to delver on their original promise of "hundreds of players on screen at once", a phrase they've even taken off their website. Their tech just could handle their original vision.

    sadpanda.jpg
    I got ya, fam.
    KTKjtw1.jpg
    Deleting your own website isn't enough to hide the truth from me, ZOS.
    Edited by HoloYoitsu on December 9, 2016 7:39AM
    Cyrodiil (the PvP map) is open-world and supports up to 2000 players in it at the same time. ESO’s client is designed to be able to handle (on the recommended spec) 200 players on screen at the same time.
  • Blackfyre20
    Blackfyre20
    ✭✭✭✭
    How bout the idea of scaling AP gained from killing players and capturing objectives based on the scoreboard? What I mean by this is make it worth more for someone to kill a player from the alliance in first place than someone from the alliance in third place. Same for taking keeps, resources, etc. This would further encourage the war to be fought how it is supposed to, with the two losing factions putting in a little more effort together to knock of whoever is in first.

    Also taking objectives need to result in more AP. Taking a resource, keep, outpost, or town should never result in a tiny fraction of the AP you get from killing just one player no matter how poorly it was defended. It's all about different incentives and ZOS has done nothing to improve incentives in Cyrodiil.

    Oh and I agree with every single thing from OP, except for the PVE buffs but I just don't PVE much so I can't really comment on that. I did like the idea someone mentioned of adding non-performance buffs for harvesting nodes, drops from chests, and extracting resins. I hope ZOS takes a look at this thread because despite their best efforts they still have a gem in Cyrodiil that could bring players back with some polishing.
    Buff Soft Caps
  • IxSTALKERxI
    IxSTALKERxI
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Crispen_Longbow
    The problem with that is only a 3rd of the prime time population can participate in the alliance war (presuming 3 times more players play during prime time than the other times) due to not everyone being able to fit into trueflame.

    With the scoring restriction based on time - I was thinking of something similar but using it to balance server population rather than just scoring.

    I don't have any actual data, but here are some made up population/server numbers to show an example:

    A server can hold 150 AD, 150 EP and 150 DC.
    During 5:00PM - 1:00AM EST - 450 players play on each faction a cross all servers (total of 1350)
    During 1:00AM - 9:00AM EST - 150 players play on each faction a cross all servers (total of 450)
    During 9:00AM - 5:00PM EST - 150 players play on each faction a cross all servers (total of 450)

    This means you could have:

    Trueflame - open 24/7 with 150 players on all 3 factions 24/7.
    Haderus - open 5:00PM - 1:00AM EST with 150 players on all 3 factions
    Azura - open 5:00PM - 1:00AM EST with 150 players on all 3 factions


    So just have the other servers open up to make room for the extra people who play during prime time - then close them so people don't night cap. Maybe boot people out or make it so flags can't be flipped and ap can't be earned. But only if there is no queue on Trueflame.
    NA | PC | Aldmeri Dominion
    Stalker V AR 30 Warden | I Stalker I AR 42 NB | Stalkersaurus AR 28 Templar | Stalker Ill AR 29 Sorc | Stalker Il AR 19 DK | Nigel the Great of Blackwater
    Former Emperor x10 campaign cycles
    Venatus Officer
    RIP RÁGE
    YouTube Channel
  • Armitas
    Armitas
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    HoloYoitsu wrote: »
    I got ya, fam.
    KTKjtw1.jpg
    Deleting your own website isn't enough to hide the truth from me, ZOS.

    Wow it can't even handle half that. More like

    The elder scrolls online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players and npcs on screen at once in a power point presentation slide show of combat in an open world fight or load screen boss battle.
    Edited by Armitas on December 9, 2016 3:44PM
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Good brainstorming here.
    Armitas wrote: »
    To make the score valuable you can attach each of these 3 buffs to scoreboard so if you are in last place you get 1 buff, second place 2 buffs, 1st place all 3 buffs. You can also make the towns act as a multiplier for those 3 buffs. Capturing a town gives a 1hr long multiplier bonus to the score bonus that refreshes each hour if the flag is not flipped.

    This would just encourage faction stacking in whatever campaign that faction currently leads in. I think it would also encourage gate camping to improve the score lead.

    Any pop or emp lock based on times zones should not include one campaign that is not like the others (Azuras). Playing no CP should be a choice, not one effectively forced on you by your preferred time zone.
    PC NA
    Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Breton Magicka Templar, Orc Stamina DK, Bosmer Stamina NB, Nord Stamina Warden, Redguard Stamina Necro
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka NB, Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Orc Stamina Warden
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka Sorcerer
  • AhPook_Is_Here
    AhPook_Is_Here
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ghost-Shot wrote: »
    Warning, this post is going to be fairly long, tl/dr at the bottom. I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately and have come up with some ideas that would, in my opinion, improve both the gameplay experience and reward structure in Cyrodiil. From how the map is played (when it’s actually played at all) to how PvPers gear up, I think it’s time for a serious overhaul. I don’t want to get in to balance discussions in this post, we know it’s a problem and we have discussed it to death over the last few months, we have a balance patch coming up so it’s probably best to see where that goes before beating that horse again. Would love to hear everyone’s input and find out if these are all *** ideas or not!

    Gear
    In theory, having gear available in the towns was a cool idea but in practice, it’s really annoying. Our purchasable PvP gear needs to be moved back to the gates and made a little more reasonable to acquire. I know that those vendors are pretty much the only reason to go visit the towns right now; I’ll address that issue later.

    Ok so first thing to address is the vendors. It’s clear that ZOS is set on using RNG boxes but they don’t have to be as bad as they are now. What should happen is take the 3 vendors, like they are now, so you have a light armor vendor, medium armor vendor, and heavy armor vendor, and put them at one of each faction’s gates. This way you always have access to all the gear vendors regardless of alliance without having to ride across the map and try and cap a town while some scrub is in stealth waiting to flip flags behind you. Then instead of selling one box that can drop every piece of Desert Rose for example, they would have boxes that drop Desert Rose shoes, Desert Rose pants, Desert Rose jewelry and so on. You still maintain some RNG and people don’t gear up immediately but it becomes reasonable. I know the PvE crowd needs some help in this area too, VMA is a real ***, but that is a topic for another post.

    Malestrom/Master weapons, or at least some alternative, need to be available by some means through PvP. In the past, we had a chance to get Master weapons from the end of campaign rewards, that would be a good way to start if you are opposed to directly purchasing them for a huge amount of AP. PvEers complain all the time about having to PvP for things like vigor and caltrops so they were made easier for them to obtain, why don’t we get the same treatment?

    The next thing to address is rewards for the worthy mails. The items offered in rewards for the worthy were last updated with the Thieves Guild DLC in March; we have been receiving the exact same items for 9 months now. It’s very important that the sets available through rewards for the worthy are updated every few months to give us useful items with the mails. When a group of sets is cycled out of the reward mails, they should be placed on a vendor at the main gates who sells them in boxes. This could be a good implementation of gear seasons, with each vendor carrying a particular season’s gear.

    Campaign Scoring & Reward Structure
    Let’s be real here, very few people care about the map or winning campaigns anymore (before someone comes in all triggered, I know some of you still do, you are just a minority these days) and that’s pretty sad, Cyrodiil is an AvA zone after all. I believe the lack of interest in winning campaigns is due to the lack of rewards for doing so. If my alliance wins a 30 day campaign and I have tier 3 rewards and I’m in the top 2% for AP earned, I get 30K gold, a few gold items that will likely be trash or something I’ve had for 8 months already and a few wall repairs. There is no incentive there for most of your guild raids and small man’s to care about.

    Reward Structure Solution:
    First thing is to add two more tiers to end of campaign rewards, tier 4 at 500k AP, tier 5 at 1 million AP. Tier 4 would put your rewards up to 75k gold, 5 pieces of epic gear, and a full stack of repair kits. Tier 5 gets you 150k gold, 5 gold items, a stack of wall repairs and a stack of door repairs, if your alliance wins the campaign. I’m not entirely sure about this one, but maybe when an alliance wins a campaign, the following cycle the get a 10% AP earned bonus. I realize this seems like huge rewards but if you want people to care, the incentive has to be there.

    Campaign Score Solution:
    The everything is worth 1 point score system needs to go, there is no reason to spread out to different places on the map when none of those locations are actually valuable targets. I have come up with some numbers that I think would be good for score values, would love to hear what everyone thinks about them:

    Tri-keeps (Rayles/Wraden/Glademist ) = 5 points each
    Tri-keep resources = 2 points each
    Dragon/Drake/Brindle and their resources = 3 points each
    Emp ring keeps & resources = 2 points for home keeps, 1 point for enemy keeps
    Outposts = 2 points each
    Towns = 5 points each
    Scrolls = 10 points each

    Provided proper rewards are implemented for winning a campaign, having higher value targets deep in enemy territory would help spreading people out on the map, you are still going to have the frontline zerg on the ring (it’s never going away, just accept that) but you will also have the more organized forces all over the place.

    The other possible way to make people care about the map is probably going to be a bit of a controversial one but I will put it out there anyway, campaign buffs in PvE. I know it creates some issues for leaderboards but I know a lot of people who only ever tried PvP to help get their buff servers back and ended up loving it, it’s a great way to make people want to hold a map and bring new players into PvP. Even when we had enough campaigns to have proper buff servers, going in a breaking up an enemy held buff server was always a fun thing for guilds to do while main servers were slow.

    Awesome suggestion by @Crispen_Longbow to gate scoring times by campaign:
    Ghost-Shot wrote: »
    Campaign Scoring & Reward Structure
    Let’s be real here, very few people care about the map or winning campaigns anymore (before someone comes in all triggered, I know some of you still do, you are just a minority these days) and that’s pretty sad, Cyrodiil is an AvA zone after all. I believe the lack of interest in winning campaigns is due to the lack of rewards for doing so. If my alliance wins a 30 day campaign and I have tier 3 rewards and I’m in the top 2% for AP earned, I get 30K gold, a few gold items that will likely be trash or something I’ve had for 8 months already and a few wall repairs. There is no incentive there for most of your guild raids and small man’s to care about.

    Campaign Score Solution:
    The everything is worth 1 point score system needs to go, there is no reason to spread out to different places on the map when none of those locations are actually valuable targets. I have come up with some numbers that I think would be good for score values, would love to hear what everyone thinks about them:

    All of the above are great suggestions. I believe we are missing one crucial one for people to care about campaign wins. Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.

    Trueflame
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Haderus
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Azuras Star
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)

    This would force players to choose timezones that they are active in and end the Night capping / Day Capping issues. This would also help to push different play-styles at different times. Objective play during Primetime Scoring and Emp Pushes, AP farming on off hours.

    Alliance Points
    Alliance points have been pretty useless for a long time now, I remember when asked about adding things to be purchased for AP, @Wrobel cited the huge sums of AP that some have accumulated as a reason to be cautious adding things but that is only a problem because there is nothing worth buying. The changes to gearing I discussed earlier would go a long way in clearing some of that AP up but we need more. Adding the flower satchels to the Tel Var vendor was an awesome move, maybe having an AP variant as well would be good. Gold tempers would be nice to purchase with AP too, something like 31,250 AP would work out to 250K AP to upgrade one item, I think that’s reasonable.

    Cosmetic things are great too, I can’t speak for everyone here but I know for me it was a slap in the face that the alliance themed horses were a cash shop thing and not a PvP reward. I know your cash shop is where the money comes from but give us something. I would like to see the alliance style motifs added to the vendors, maybe some cool costumes or polymorphs like you can buy in IC. With housing coming up there is a huge opportunity to add items we can use in our houses to an AP vendor.

    TL/DR:
    Make gearing through PvP a viable possibility and continually update rewards for the worthy. Make end of campaign rewards for the winning alliance worth putting in the effort to win a campaign. Provide things to spend our AP on, the only way you will ever dry up the huge supplies of AP that some people have is by making it a useful currency again. I look forward to hearing everyone’s feedback and input on what I went overboard with or anything I missed, let’s make Cyrodiil great again!
    @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Edit 12/8 to add time gated scoring suggestion.

    The Crispin idea was pretty good. But instead of closing down campaigns why not do something a lot easier and just make regional scoring zones. Same idea of the world in 3rd, but each campaign would have Asia/Pacific scoring, Europe Africa and Russia scoring and finally the Americas. Scoring would be open for each third 4 hours before and after each zones prime time, after that map changes would have impact on the next scoring zone. A player is rewarded for their contribution to a scoring zone. Emps would then be regional too, and that might make for some instant thrones/dethrones as the map changes but i don't think that would be as incongruous as suddenly realizing you need to switch servers because it's 1:01AM and the server has entered duel/AP farm mode till 5PM tomorrow.

    I think Crispin's idea will lead to less player liquidity because as soon as a new active sever hits you will pop off the one you are on to it, and likely on one of your other faction alts. This might lead to some severs having bigger balance issues as players will home their faction alt to the server with the best performing faction in that time slot, essentially creating 3 imbalanced "buff" servers instead of one active one.

    I also think gear should be pretty easy to get to encourage new players to hit it. at this stage in the game nobody wants to farm stuff, I want to just get bis gear with cheap ap and have fun playing. I don't want to wait for RNG vendors, or drops, or farm boring things days/weeks/years.
    “Whatever.”
    -Unknown American
  • Ghost-Shot
    Ghost-Shot
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Ghost-Shot wrote: »
    Warning, this post is going to be fairly long, tl/dr at the bottom. I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately and have come up with some ideas that would, in my opinion, improve both the gameplay experience and reward structure in Cyrodiil. From how the map is played (when it’s actually played at all) to how PvPers gear up, I think it’s time for a serious overhaul. I don’t want to get in to balance discussions in this post, we know it’s a problem and we have discussed it to death over the last few months, we have a balance patch coming up so it’s probably best to see where that goes before beating that horse again. Would love to hear everyone’s input and find out if these are all *** ideas or not!

    Gear
    In theory, having gear available in the towns was a cool idea but in practice, it’s really annoying. Our purchasable PvP gear needs to be moved back to the gates and made a little more reasonable to acquire. I know that those vendors are pretty much the only reason to go visit the towns right now; I’ll address that issue later.

    Ok so first thing to address is the vendors. It’s clear that ZOS is set on using RNG boxes but they don’t have to be as bad as they are now. What should happen is take the 3 vendors, like they are now, so you have a light armor vendor, medium armor vendor, and heavy armor vendor, and put them at one of each faction’s gates. This way you always have access to all the gear vendors regardless of alliance without having to ride across the map and try and cap a town while some scrub is in stealth waiting to flip flags behind you. Then instead of selling one box that can drop every piece of Desert Rose for example, they would have boxes that drop Desert Rose shoes, Desert Rose pants, Desert Rose jewelry and so on. You still maintain some RNG and people don’t gear up immediately but it becomes reasonable. I know the PvE crowd needs some help in this area too, VMA is a real ***, but that is a topic for another post.

    Malestrom/Master weapons, or at least some alternative, need to be available by some means through PvP. In the past, we had a chance to get Master weapons from the end of campaign rewards, that would be a good way to start if you are opposed to directly purchasing them for a huge amount of AP. PvEers complain all the time about having to PvP for things like vigor and caltrops so they were made easier for them to obtain, why don’t we get the same treatment?

    The next thing to address is rewards for the worthy mails. The items offered in rewards for the worthy were last updated with the Thieves Guild DLC in March; we have been receiving the exact same items for 9 months now. It’s very important that the sets available through rewards for the worthy are updated every few months to give us useful items with the mails. When a group of sets is cycled out of the reward mails, they should be placed on a vendor at the main gates who sells them in boxes. This could be a good implementation of gear seasons, with each vendor carrying a particular season’s gear.

    Campaign Scoring & Reward Structure
    Let’s be real here, very few people care about the map or winning campaigns anymore (before someone comes in all triggered, I know some of you still do, you are just a minority these days) and that’s pretty sad, Cyrodiil is an AvA zone after all. I believe the lack of interest in winning campaigns is due to the lack of rewards for doing so. If my alliance wins a 30 day campaign and I have tier 3 rewards and I’m in the top 2% for AP earned, I get 30K gold, a few gold items that will likely be trash or something I’ve had for 8 months already and a few wall repairs. There is no incentive there for most of your guild raids and small man’s to care about.

    Reward Structure Solution:
    First thing is to add two more tiers to end of campaign rewards, tier 4 at 500k AP, tier 5 at 1 million AP. Tier 4 would put your rewards up to 75k gold, 5 pieces of epic gear, and a full stack of repair kits. Tier 5 gets you 150k gold, 5 gold items, a stack of wall repairs and a stack of door repairs, if your alliance wins the campaign. I’m not entirely sure about this one, but maybe when an alliance wins a campaign, the following cycle the get a 10% AP earned bonus. I realize this seems like huge rewards but if you want people to care, the incentive has to be there.

    Campaign Score Solution:
    The everything is worth 1 point score system needs to go, there is no reason to spread out to different places on the map when none of those locations are actually valuable targets. I have come up with some numbers that I think would be good for score values, would love to hear what everyone thinks about them:

    Tri-keeps (Rayles/Wraden/Glademist ) = 5 points each
    Tri-keep resources = 2 points each
    Dragon/Drake/Brindle and their resources = 3 points each
    Emp ring keeps & resources = 2 points for home keeps, 1 point for enemy keeps
    Outposts = 2 points each
    Towns = 5 points each
    Scrolls = 10 points each

    Provided proper rewards are implemented for winning a campaign, having higher value targets deep in enemy territory would help spreading people out on the map, you are still going to have the frontline zerg on the ring (it’s never going away, just accept that) but you will also have the more organized forces all over the place.

    The other possible way to make people care about the map is probably going to be a bit of a controversial one but I will put it out there anyway, campaign buffs in PvE. I know it creates some issues for leaderboards but I know a lot of people who only ever tried PvP to help get their buff servers back and ended up loving it, it’s a great way to make people want to hold a map and bring new players into PvP. Even when we had enough campaigns to have proper buff servers, going in a breaking up an enemy held buff server was always a fun thing for guilds to do while main servers were slow.

    Awesome suggestion by @Crispen_Longbow to gate scoring times by campaign:
    Ghost-Shot wrote: »
    Campaign Scoring & Reward Structure
    Let’s be real here, very few people care about the map or winning campaigns anymore (before someone comes in all triggered, I know some of you still do, you are just a minority these days) and that’s pretty sad, Cyrodiil is an AvA zone after all. I believe the lack of interest in winning campaigns is due to the lack of rewards for doing so. If my alliance wins a 30 day campaign and I have tier 3 rewards and I’m in the top 2% for AP earned, I get 30K gold, a few gold items that will likely be trash or something I’ve had for 8 months already and a few wall repairs. There is no incentive there for most of your guild raids and small man’s to care about.

    Campaign Score Solution:
    The everything is worth 1 point score system needs to go, there is no reason to spread out to different places on the map when none of those locations are actually valuable targets. I have come up with some numbers that I think would be good for score values, would love to hear what everyone thinks about them:

    All of the above are great suggestions. I believe we are missing one crucial one for people to care about campaign wins. Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.

    Trueflame
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Haderus
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)

    Azuras Star
    5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
    9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)

    This would force players to choose timezones that they are active in and end the Night capping / Day Capping issues. This would also help to push different play-styles at different times. Objective play during Primetime Scoring and Emp Pushes, AP farming on off hours.

    Alliance Points
    Alliance points have been pretty useless for a long time now, I remember when asked about adding things to be purchased for AP, @Wrobel cited the huge sums of AP that some have accumulated as a reason to be cautious adding things but that is only a problem because there is nothing worth buying. The changes to gearing I discussed earlier would go a long way in clearing some of that AP up but we need more. Adding the flower satchels to the Tel Var vendor was an awesome move, maybe having an AP variant as well would be good. Gold tempers would be nice to purchase with AP too, something like 31,250 AP would work out to 250K AP to upgrade one item, I think that’s reasonable.

    Cosmetic things are great too, I can’t speak for everyone here but I know for me it was a slap in the face that the alliance themed horses were a cash shop thing and not a PvP reward. I know your cash shop is where the money comes from but give us something. I would like to see the alliance style motifs added to the vendors, maybe some cool costumes or polymorphs like you can buy in IC. With housing coming up there is a huge opportunity to add items we can use in our houses to an AP vendor.

    TL/DR:
    Make gearing through PvP a viable possibility and continually update rewards for the worthy. Make end of campaign rewards for the winning alliance worth putting in the effort to win a campaign. Provide things to spend our AP on, the only way you will ever dry up the huge supplies of AP that some people have is by making it a useful currency again. I look forward to hearing everyone’s feedback and input on what I went overboard with or anything I missed, let’s make Cyrodiil great again!
    @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Edit 12/8 to add time gated scoring suggestion.

    The Crispin idea was pretty good. But instead of closing down campaigns why not do something a lot easier and just make regional scoring zones. Same idea of the world in 3rd, but each campaign would have Asia/Pacific scoring, Europe Africa and Russia scoring and finally the Americas. Scoring would be open for each third 4 hours before and after each zones prime time, after that map changes would have impact on the next scoring zone. A player is rewarded for their contribution to a scoring zone. Emps would then be regional too, and that might make for some instant thrones/dethrones as the map changes but i don't think that would be as incongruous as suddenly realizing you need to switch servers because it's 1:01AM and the server has entered duel/AP farm mode till 5PM tomorrow.

    I think Crispin's idea will lead to less player liquidity because as soon as a new active sever hits you will pop off the one you are on to it, and likely on one of your other faction alts. This might lead to some severs having bigger balance issues as players will home their faction alt to the server with the best performing faction in that time slot, essentially creating 3 imbalanced "buff" servers instead of one active one.

    I also think gear should be pretty easy to get to encourage new players to hit it. at this stage in the game nobody wants to farm stuff, I want to just get bis gear with cheap ap and have fun playing. I don't want to wait for RNG vendors, or drops, or farm boring things days/weeks/years.

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here but the idea isn't to close the campaigns outside of those times, just to shut down score evaluations and emp crowning outside of the specified time frame. That you can PvP and AP farm to your hearts content any time but at each servers prime time you have your chance to help earn a nice reward at the end of the campaign.
    <Vehemence Officer>

    DC Dark Elf DK - Ghóst-Shot - AR 39 - Legate
    DC Imperial Templar - Ghóst Shot - AR 26
    DC High Elf Warden - Ghöst Shot - AR 15
    EP Dark Elf DK - Ghòst-Shot - AR 23 - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    EP High Elf Sorcerer - Ghost Shót - AR 11
    AD High Elf Sorcerer - Ghost Shöt - AR 10
  • KisoValley
    KisoValley
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Decent.
    EU PC
    Kíso Dunmer DK AD
    Casserole Altmer Sorc AD
    H dot Shine Redguard Templar AD
    Eva Lovia Altmer Templar AD
    Maggie Grace Dunmer DK AD
    Michelle Keegan Altmer Nightblade DC
    Bodied Altmer Sorc EP
    Man Like Me Redguard DK DC
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
  • AhPook_Is_Here
    AhPook_Is_Here
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ghost-Shot wrote: »

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here but the idea isn't to close the campaigns outside of those times, just to shut down score evaluations and emp crowning outside of the specified time frame. That you can PvP and AP farm to your hearts content any time but at each servers prime time you have your chance to help earn a nice reward at the end of the campaign.

    I wasn't very clear, what I meant was instead of rolling scoring to a new campaign every 8 hours while scoring is suspended on 2 servers for 16 hours, why not just have each campaign have 3 separate scoring zones you can participate in and get rewarded for? This way you can still have other campaigns with different rule sets and you don't have to switch to another server every 8 hours to get scoring participation on a different server you are homed on (obviously requires alts).

    What I'm suggesting is that each server's campaign cycle has an opportunity for 3 different wins based on global time zones. At wherever the 8 hours blocks concluded the score board would change to the next scoring zone for 8 hours, then the next after those 8 hours then return to the 1st after those 8 hours. Each homed character could build score for themselves (towards emp) and their faction at any time and participate in any of the 3 scoring blocks. Obviously it would be possible for a faction to win 1, 2 or all 3 scoring zones over the period of a campaign cycle.

    The problem I see with your alternative was players who want to build score for emp or move a campaign would have to move to the next active server at any time one servers campaign scoring was suspended. This will encourage players to home alts on other campaigns that belong to the dominating faction during that scoring cycle to optimize their time/reward investment. The end result will be a bias towards imbalanced factions on all servers.

    “Whatever.”
    -Unknown American
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