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We need incentives to bring regular players back into Cyrodiil, and to attract non-PvPers to try PvP

NightbladeMechanics
NightbladeMechanics
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I consider Midyear Mayhem a widely popular event, but since its end, PvP on NA/PC has been slower and Cyrodiil emptier than I've ever seen it. My assumption is that everyone was motivated to PvP a ton for the rewards, enjoyed PvP being crammed with players in all corners of the map on every campaign, and then burned out a little after the event ended -- that much is to be expected. However, when regular PvPers recovered from their burnout and considered coming back to the game, they realized how lacking PvP is compared to how it could be, shrugged, and went to do other things.

Many of my friends log on once or twice a week now, down from nightly. I have barely played since the event. PvP has honestly been pretty boring for the last couple months, aside from the event. Vivec doesn't reach locks during the week now, and queues are small on the weekends. We also all know people who have quit outright over the years. We need incentives to bring regular PvPers back to the game.

But we also need incentives to bring new blood to Cyrodiil. I asked some PvEers what ZOS could do to increase their interest in PvP, and one said "what if owning a region in Cyrodiil gave benefits to your faction outside of Cyrodiil, like if you own certain keeps as EP, you get double node drops in Shadowfen?"

Not that I'd be terribly interested in double node drops in Shadowfen myself, but that's the example he gave. I imagine a lot of people would be interested in some sort of benefit bleeding over from Cyrodiil to their activities outside of Cyrodiil as an incentive to get them into PvP. Other ideas I've seen on the forums and heard in conversations haven't reached out to PvE zones, but they include:
  • Reworking RftW.
  • Spontaneous events spawning on the map for us to run to and fight over. These could include giant daedric bosses protecting a special 7th scroll, mobile Imperial caravans to take out, or any other large objectives for the factions to brawl over.
  • More objective flags planted in towns and ruins around the map.
  • High-yield resource nodes spawning around some of said new objective flags, harvestable by the faction which owns the nearest flag. (Players like the idea of sustaining potion usage with their PvP rewards.)
  • A new transitus network that can port a trickle of players -- say 4 per minute -- across long distances based on ownership of objectives around the edges of the map.
  • Finishing the IC island area, letting us cross the broken bridges, and linking Cyrodiil and IC directly.
  • Expanding IC objectives.
  • Reintroducing Master or vMA weapons to end of campaign victory rewards, or creating a new type of 1pc weapon that amplifies Alliance War abilities.
  • Increasing defensive ticks.
  • And I'm sure I'm forgetting many.

Naturally, we should avoid ideas that impact leaderboards (we all know how buff servers went...). What other ideas have you had or heard out there, and what are your thoughts on all of this?
Edited by NightbladeMechanics on August 30, 2017 11:59PM
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Here's a great thread collecting community ideas for PvP updates.

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  • WaltherCarraway
    WaltherCarraway
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    Tons of free AP for ball zerg group anyway
    AFK
  • Kram8ion
    Kram8ion
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    Right now the only thing that keeps me in cyrodil is the golden every week but only need one or two more monster helms and then I don't know
    Cyrodil needs fortnightly or monthly events to keep interest
    ps4eu
    Kramm stam man kittyblade

  • MipMip
    MipMip
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    I agree with the OP saying that we need to attract new / more players to Cyrodiil and I like many of your ideas (Master and / or vMA weapons again as campaign rewards, yay!)

    What I am not sure about is offering rewards (like more drops of loot in PvE areas) that may just attract PvE players to do some PvP even though they dislike it, just as I do PvE even though I dislike it because I need certain sets and Undaunted passives for PvP. It's good for a game to offer both PvP and PvE but players shouldn't be forced to play both if they like only one of the two.
    PC NA ∙ PC EU

    Current Guilds (main): Flame ∙ Tyr ∙ Filthy Faction Hoppers
    Former Guilds (main): Unfriendly Fire ∙ Dracarys

    'My only complaint about ball groups is that there aren't enough of them. Moar Balls.'
    - Vilestride
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Like the ideas aside from a few:

    * More flags: Never liked the concept of flags. Perhaps it has to do with how strong the guards are. Perhaps nerfing the guards a little.

    * vMA/vDSA weapons as rewards: I know vDSA weapons used to come as rewards but I think trialdrops should come from trials only (not to be compared to overland gear that can be obtained by AP-boxes, overland gear is a different thing).
    Retired werewolf player, currently getting carried by whatever the FOTM is

    Characters:
    EU
    DC - Octius Ciel - Magicka Sorcerer - Breton
    DC - Evelina Septim - Magicka Templar - Breton
    EP - Josephine Tharn - Magicka Templar - Breton
    DC - Zireael the White Flame - Stamina Sorcerer - Bosmer
    EP - Qbi-One-Kenobi -Stamina DK - Argonian
    AD - Anconeus - Magicka Nightblade - High Elf
    EP - Cirilla Élen Riannon - Magica Dragonknight - Dark Elf
    AD - The Cub of Cintra - Stamina Nightblade - Bosmer
    AD - Alinare Larentius - StaminaTemplar - Redguard
    DC - The Alt-Knight - Stamina Dragonknight - Nord
    DC - Féreldir - Magicka Warden - Argonian
    AD - Kuvirá - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - 1vX Material - Stamina Warden - Orc
    EP - Fenrir the Windwalker - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - Q_Q Mancer Stamina Necromancer - Dark Elf

    NA
    EP - Sister Q - Stamina Sorcerer - Nord

    Trials
    vAA + HM: Completed
    vHRC + HM: Completed
    vSO + HM: Completed
    vMoL+ HM: Completed (Dro-m'Athra Destroyer x 2)
    vMA: Completed, and with 10 characters as Flawless Conquerors.
    vDSA: Completed
    vAS HM: Completed (Immortal Redeemer)
    vHoF + HM: Completed
    vCR +3 (Gryphon Heart)
    vBRP
    vSS HM: Completed
  • MipMip
    MipMip
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Like the ideas aside from a few:
    ....
    * vMA/vDSA weapons as rewards: I know vDSA weapons used to come as rewards but I think trialdrops should come from trials only (not to be compared to overland gear that can be obtained by AP-boxes, overland gear is a different thing).

    I would be ok with that if there were some other similarly interesting weapons that could be obtained through PvP, and yes that would probably be even better
    PC NA ∙ PC EU

    Current Guilds (main): Flame ∙ Tyr ∙ Filthy Faction Hoppers
    Former Guilds (main): Unfriendly Fire ∙ Dracarys

    'My only complaint about ball groups is that there aren't enough of them. Moar Balls.'
    - Vilestride
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    MipMip wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Like the ideas aside from a few:
    ....
    * vMA/vDSA weapons as rewards: I know vDSA weapons used to come as rewards but I think trialdrops should come from trials only (not to be compared to overland gear that can be obtained by AP-boxes, overland gear is a different thing).

    I would be ok with that if there were some other similarly interesting weapons that could be obtained through PvP, and yes that would probably be even better

    I would be ok with this :)
    Retired werewolf player, currently getting carried by whatever the FOTM is

    Characters:
    EU
    DC - Octius Ciel - Magicka Sorcerer - Breton
    DC - Evelina Septim - Magicka Templar - Breton
    EP - Josephine Tharn - Magicka Templar - Breton
    DC - Zireael the White Flame - Stamina Sorcerer - Bosmer
    EP - Qbi-One-Kenobi -Stamina DK - Argonian
    AD - Anconeus - Magicka Nightblade - High Elf
    EP - Cirilla Élen Riannon - Magica Dragonknight - Dark Elf
    AD - The Cub of Cintra - Stamina Nightblade - Bosmer
    AD - Alinare Larentius - StaminaTemplar - Redguard
    DC - The Alt-Knight - Stamina Dragonknight - Nord
    DC - Féreldir - Magicka Warden - Argonian
    AD - Kuvirá - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - 1vX Material - Stamina Warden - Orc
    EP - Fenrir the Windwalker - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - Q_Q Mancer Stamina Necromancer - Dark Elf

    NA
    EP - Sister Q - Stamina Sorcerer - Nord

    Trials
    vAA + HM: Completed
    vHRC + HM: Completed
    vSO + HM: Completed
    vMoL+ HM: Completed (Dro-m'Athra Destroyer x 2)
    vMA: Completed, and with 10 characters as Flawless Conquerors.
    vDSA: Completed
    vAS HM: Completed (Immortal Redeemer)
    vHoF + HM: Completed
    vCR +3 (Gryphon Heart)
    vBRP
    vSS HM: Completed
  • Arthg
    Arthg
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    Your suggestions are great, I love them, I so agree that more enticements to PvP should be implemented and all, but I just can't shed that feeling that you, we, are just flagelating a cadaverous bronco.
    PC/EU. NoCP PvP. sDK Orc IRL. Flawless tamperor. AR 41+. CP 900+. Pro scrub.


  • Subversus
    Subversus
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    I like all your ideas tbh. Especially the one where they make 1p weapons buffing something else. I don't mind if they made like 1p swords buffing/reducing the cost of like vigor and 1p staves reducing the cost of purge or something. And make them give max resources like vDSA or damage like vMA drops.
    @Subversuss PC EU

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  • antihero727
    antihero727
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    I consider Midyear Mayhem a widely popular event, but since its end, PvP on NA/PC has been slower and Cyrodiil emptier than I've ever seen it. My assumption is that everyone was motivated to PvP a ton for the rewards, enjoyed PvP being crammed with players in all corners of the map on every campaign, and then burned out a little after the event ended -- that much is to be expected. However, when regular PvPers recovered from their burnout and considered coming back to the game, they realized how lacking PvP is compared to how it could be, shrugged, and went to do other things.

    Many of my friends log on once or twice a week now, down from nightly. I have barely played since the event. PvP has honestly been pretty boring for the last couple months, aside from the event. Vivec doesn't reach locks during the week now, and queues are small on the weekends. We also all know people who have quit outright over the years. We need incentives to bring regular PvPers back to the game.

    But we also need incentives to bring new blood to Cyrodiil. I asked some PvEers what ZOS could do to increase their interest in PvP, and one said "what if owning a region in Cyrodiil gave benefits to your faction outside of Cyrodiil, like if you own certain keeps as EP, you get double node drops in Shadowfen?"

    Not that I'd be terribly interested in double node drops in Shadowfen myself, but that's the example he gave. I imagine a lot of people would be interested in some sort of benefit bleeding over from Cyrodiil to their activities outside of Cyrodiil as an incentive to get them into PvP. Other ideas I've seen on the forums and heard in conversations haven't reached out to PvE zones, but they include:
    • Reworking RftW.
    • Spontaneous events spawning on the map for us to run to and fight over. These could include giant daedric bosses protecting a special 7th scroll, mobile Imperial caravans to take out, or any other large objectives for the factions to brawl over.
    • More objective flags planted in towns and ruins around the map.
    • High-yield resource nodes spawning around some of said new objective flags, harvestable by the faction which owns the nearest flag. (Players like the idea of sustaining potion usage with their PvP rewards.)
    • A new transitus network that can port a trickle of players -- say 4 per minute -- across long distances based on ownership of objectives around the edges of the map.
    • Finishing the IC island area, letting us cross the broken bridges, and linking Cyrodiil and IC directly.
    • Expanding IC objectives.
    • Reintroducing Master or vMA weapons to end of campaign victory rewards, or creating a new type of 1pc weapon that amplifies Alliance War abilities.
    • Increasing defensive ticks.
    • And I'm sure I'm forgetting many.

    Naturally, we should avoid ideas that impact leaderboards (we all know how buff servers went...). What other ideas have you had or heard out there, and what are your thoughts on all of this?

    There were incentives like this earlier in the game. If you had emperor you got pve buffs, it's been so long I can't remember exactly what. But we had buff servers back then and ever time you messed with them all the pve people would swarm the server get Emp and leave immediately. I believe this was even before imperial city. If you look back to the old forums people had real issues with it. We pve we don't want to pvp to get through trials and such. Can't win either way honestly. ZOS has catered to the casual crown store cash cow too much. Even they are getting bored with completely changing the meta and mechanics every 6 months. By the time the casual players farm the new meta gear it's already irrelevant. It's a bad model for keeping players interested. They always feel behind the 8ball and instead of playing the game they are always farming, that gets old quickly.
    Edited by antihero727 on August 31, 2017 1:01PM
    Veldrn-AD Magica Sorc
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  • Iyas
    Iyas
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    Stopped playing after the ap Event. Cant stand it anymore to have to fight against the same 30 tryhards like always
    Noricum/ Kitesquad/ PC/EU

    Kitesquad Vol. 1

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  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Taking away lag is highest priority. It's bad performance that destroys the fun and gives even higher adventage to larger teams because they'll rush spamming 1-2 skills anyway but smaller group wont be able to outplay that with 900 ping. We need mechanics that will encourage people to split on whole map or even punish them for zerging too long in 1 place by drasticly lowering AP gain. That's silly that most of the time over 2/3 of campaign population fight in 1 place and rest of map is dead place but because of that crowd in 1 place whole map will lag anyway.
  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
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    To bring new people into PvP, you need better incentives.

    To keep experienced PvPers in PvP, you need new mechanics/challenges, etc.

    ...and to make it actually work, you need to make the rewards only active in non-buff servers (or delete the empty/buff/emp flip servers that have been left around since MYM.
    Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub
  • jcasini222ub17_ESO
    jcasini222ub17_ESO
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    A simple step would be to revert many of the changes to mount and character speed.

    It's simply no fun after a days work playing horse sim. I may have 60 to 90 minutes to play a day m-f. If I log in and see most of the action is brindle/dc, or the idea to ride and flag a keep to cut off another I haven't done in months specifically because of how slow a max speed mount feels now. I very well will log off and read a book. Riding to those locations at the current mount speed is that off putting for me.

    I used to absolutely PvP daily, the speed changes across the board have really decreased my play time.



  • Minno
    Minno
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Like the ideas aside from a few:

    * More flags: Never liked the concept of flags. Perhaps it has to do with how strong the guards are. Perhaps nerfing the guards a little.

    * vMA/vDSA weapons as rewards: I know vDSA weapons used to come as rewards but I think trialdrops should come from trials only (not to be compared to overland gear that can be obtained by AP-boxes, overland gear is a different thing).

    The concept of flags is fine; it's the idea that they should deny you a fast rez that's the issue.

    If we can decrease the horse ride without somehow impacting the speed in which keeps are taken, then it's possible players will come back. Fast + easy access to PvP will bring players; the lag and inability to understand the mechanics might keep them from staying.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • zyk
    zyk
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    All innovations in the world will not change anything as long as the PvPers themselves don't change their mentality (taunting, insulting, rage whispers, tea-bagging, etc. )

    It's just too toxic.

    Also the design promotes too much zerging and "stick-to-the-crown" type of gameplay, instead of spreading over, developing strategies, etc. I'm sorry but I don't log into the game to have to follow the crown's a** like on dog on a lane.

    Pretty much in agreement here. Cyrodiil is the reason new players don't stick around in Cyrodiil very long. It's a slow downward spiral towards the point where the only residents are people who've become numb to it.

    I can't speak to XB1, but in PC gaming, there is a greater PVP community. The players in this community tend to have a thick skin and the "toxicity" of eso would roll off most PVP enthusiasts. Toxicity isn't the reason ESO PVP isn't successful.

    ESO's PVP community is so tame, it's kind of boring. Heated rivalries are a sign of a good PVP game.

    It comes down to the PVP. If ESO had better PVP, word would spread and bona fide PVP players would return to play it. PVP players will play a good PVP game for no rewards at all.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you"
    pvp videos: eso zyk on youtube
    enjin profile
    66
    I played Brutus at school once, and I was the one everybody stabbed
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  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    @NightbladeMechanics

    What about the fact that you need different gear for pvp? I know we can't homogenize all encounters so 1 set of gear fits every situation, but new players come to pvp and die near instantly because they're not running impen, enough sustain, whatever.

    Perhaps a vendor that allows you to "borrow" blue gear while in cyrodiil. You hop in cyro and go to vendor X and get your impen gear in a small selection of sets for stam/mag/tanks. This gear can't be re-enchanted, traded, upgraded, modified in any way, or used outside cyrodiil.

    I really like your ideas and love the concept of this thread! Something has to give and any way we can find to break down the barriers for getting into pvp will be huge. As I'm sure you are, I'm tired of fighting the same small selection of people all the time.
    PC NA
    @lexxypwns
    Xbox NA
    GT: Champion Points
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  • Theodard
    Theodard
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    NBrookus wrote: »
    The incentive I need to play more often is helping balance campaign populations, right-size fights and stop stacking extra advantages to the faction/group that already has the numbers or buffs. Ideas:
    • Scrolls should have a bigger impact on score, but not give the faction that has them combat buffs.
    • Home keep d-ticks and o-ticks should be much higher than taking or defending enemy keeps. Choosing to go into enemy territory should be strategic or for fun, not an AP farming operation.
      ....
    • Better group tools. Crown should be able to assign a player to co-administer the group (invites/kicks) and be the default crown inheritor if the crown crashes so crown can focus on leading.
      ....

    Just wanted to touch on these points here, because honestly these _should_ be fairly small additions to the game that would be a great help. Especially the grouping tools aspect. I hadn't thought of that before much, but for my money that right there would be a great feature to have.
    Theodard Stenan <<>> Thelodyn

  • Anazasi
    Anazasi
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    I think an immediate fix would be eliminating the campaigns that were created for the pvp event. Please take them away. I know from my perspective AD NA PC east coast prime time. AD Is so underpopulated that holding the tri-keeps is simply a challenge and EP and DC during this time are so overpopulated that if a small group does try and work the map they are swarmed by 50 players. This type of behavior is why most AD are gone and soon to be more leaving.

    Tackling the lag issues is a major task that ZOS has made great strides in, however, the FPS bug that has been around since launch should come first and foremost. In fact it very well could resolve the lag issue so many complain about. After that adding new content or changes always comes with a 50/50 chance something will be broken and honestly we just don't need more broken stuff in PVP. In fact we need all the broken stuff fixed before adding new broken stuff.

    Fix rapids
    Fix FPS
    Fix lag
    Fix the guards that spam relentlessly the same ability over and over
    Fix the super tank builds with max DPS
    Fix the proc sets
    Fix the rampant use of CE to increase base stats like magic, stam, pen, resists and dodge chance.
    Fix the stuff that makes PVP worth playing or just close it down and make it a PVE area.
    noun An·a·sa·zi \ˌä-nə-ˈsä-zē\
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  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
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    If the golden or the towns elite gear merchant constantly had legendary SPC, Worm, Ebon, Willpower etc....I know quite a few that would be in Cyrodil way more often.

    But instead we get Senche, Syrbane, Shadow Poo, etc...

    Gotta put something there PvE ers actually want.
    PlayStation NA
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    DC Orc Warden Stormproof
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    kylewwefan wrote: »
    If the golden or the towns elite gear merchant constantly had legendary SPC, Worm, Ebon, Willpower etc....I know quite a few that would be in Cyrodil way more often.

    But instead we get Senche, Syrbane, Shadow Poo, etc...

    Gotta put something there PvE ers actually want.

    Definitely! The biggest non-bug/lag issues we have are: inaccessibility to non-pvpers, lack of incentive/rewards, and repetitive goals that get old to most people.
    PC NA
    @lexxypwns
    Xbox NA
    GT: Champion Points
    GT: Crown Crates

    Mageblade main
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    Everyone's free to think people just need thicker skin, and players are free to not return to PvP when they're treated with what they might perceive as insulting behavior. I'm fine with it, I'm in PvP daily. I'd rather have new players join and stay in PvP than leave, so I don't try to be insulting.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • CavalryPK
    CavalryPK
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    In my not so professional opinion pumping more ppl in cyro would just contribute to lag and larger zergs... what i would like to see is small scale fights ... where ppl are forced to go to certain locations of the maps. To incentivize this zos could do the following:
    • mini quest the sends you to a random location on the map to gather resources for you alliance - this will make the farmers, traders and crafters come the pvp in order to get resources (crafting mats for armor or furniture). This place is random therefore hungry wolfs like ( @NightbladeMechanics ) who likes to murder and drink blood of his enemies would not be able to camp the spot.
    • each alliance would give the quest with that has the same location to few ppl only . these way small groups would end up at each spot thus providing opportunity for a small scale pvp.
    • resources that need to be collected can not be double looted... this means if DC already looted then AD has to kill the DC and loot their body for the resource.. (could function similar to telvar )

    I don't think this is gonna be easy to implement. then again In my not so professional opinion I see it working well in my head.
    THE CAVELRY HAS ARRIVED! Cav is a professional magblade, (in his not so professional opinion). He is immortal and is fighting for the Pact since 2E 572, amidst the turmoil of the Second Akaviri Invasion. He protects the provinces of Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh.

    Check out his PVP YouTube channel !

    https://youtube.com/TheCavalryPK
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