We need incentives to bring regular players back into Cyrodiil, and to attract non-PvPers to try PvP

NBrookus

gibous wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@gibous agreed. You're one of my friends who has stopped logging on again recently.

Yeah I know... but I'll be back soon. Have to take regular breaks nowadays - monotony sets in fast every patch due to (as discussed above) the lack of pvp gameplay variety 3+ years in (not counting BGs).

asneakybanana wrote: »

Also, another thing that could make things interesting is creating a sort of PvP raid boss/ world boss system. Similar to molag bol in the sewers but much harder hitting, much better rewards, and much harder to kill. Give the boss like 200m health and have him do large high damage aoe attacks and make it so that the reward is something similar to maelstrom or master weapons where it's a super low chance to receive something good but farming for that piece of gear will help you a lot in the end. Make a server wide notification that he is spawning and have him spawn every 2-5 days to make it not an every day occurrence. (Yes I got this idea from world bosses in BDO).

Sneaky I had the same take-away from BDO - would be hilarious and fun and lots of scroll-fight-esque pvp could come from something like that. They could also use Molag Bal as a balance tool - when a faction caps the whole map and all scrolls, he spawns and starts punching holes in their keep walls so the dominating faction has to spread out and defend.

Clavicus Vile perhaps, or Sheogorath. They like chaos.

Nutshotz

Vdsa weapons should be put back into the end of the campaign rewards for the top tier pvpers. I miss my master weapons. As for them being vMA weapons no. Those should only be earned thru vMA. Now people are gonna say why one and not the other. Well strictly on one reason. We got master weapons before and should receive them again for top tier pvpers. Now I would change on how it works tho.

You could only get them on the 30 day campaigns cuz right now pc na doesn't have the pvp population to keep 7 campaigns open.

Fix the lag
Double the AP from keep defenses. I so miss those chalamo ticks
Fix the FPS issues we've been having for 2 yrs

Last but not least. Rework the RotW like Agrippa mentioned in his post and so many positive comments to make RotW better.

Do that and I can see new player joining and old players coming back.

Elong

Mentioned in another thread the idea of random anchors spawning on keeps letting out mobs of world boss/trial boss ability, or even stronger, capable of taking the keep. It could happen even if there were 2 or 3 factions already present. The NPC race in Aion would do similar, take keeps randomly, and they were a tough fight.

NightbladeMechanics

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Vdsa weapons should be put back into the end of the campaign rewards for the top tier pvpers. I miss my master weapons. As for them being vMA weapons no. Those should only be earned thru vMA. Now people are gonna say why one and not the other. Well strictly on one reason. We got master weapons before and should receive them again for top tier pvpers. Now I would change on how it works tho.

You could only get them on the 30 day campaigns cuz right now pc na doesn't have the pvp population to keep 7 campaigns open.

Fix the lag
Double the AP from keep defenses. I so miss those chalamo ticks
Fix the FPS issues we've been having for 2 yrs

Last but not least. Rework the RotW like Agrippa mentioned in his post and so many positive comments to make RotW better.

Do that and I can see new player joining and old players coming back.

If they reintroduce Master weapons, then they need to rework 2h and destro staves, and potentially others. I'm not thinking through all of them right now.

Although "because they used to" is not logical justification for reintroducing them to the rewards. ZOS removed them "because all trial gear should be exclusive to trial completions." That's a sound principle, and is consistent with making trial gear BoP. In order to have them reintroduced, you'll have to argue on a new principle.

Lag and fps issues are likely out of ZOS' control, seeing as they haven't been fixed yet.

I can get behind defensive tick buffs, but honestly I'd like to see a more extensive rework of PvP rewards, including AP.

Speaking of which, they need to close some campaigns for sure, but I would also like to see incentives to play in all of the campaigns, not just your home campaign. Do away with guest campaigns already, and let us play in all of them. I'd like for end of campaign rewards reworked more than RftW, and awarded for every campaign in which you earn some fraction of your total AP during the period. Perhaps 15% of your total AP if there are three campaigns on the server. You might even do away with home campaigns altogether and let us hold leaderboard positions in all campaigns at once. World's first emperor in two simultaneous campaigns inc?

Grumble_and_Grunt

gibous wrote: »

You are pvping as DC. You open up your map, "where should I go" you ask yourself. You have been playing this game for a while now, and have already tried fighting for the faction going keep to keep. It was fun for a while, but got too repetitive. You have become good enough in pvp that you laugh at the days when you just light attacked enemies as if you had no abilities and were playing Skyrim in 2012. Still looking at the map, there's no swords nearby, but you see that "the bridge is open" and there's baby red/yellow swords on it. You mount up, slot rapids and ride for ~5-10 mins, feeling bad for not feeding your horse more regularly. At the bridge there's 3 stealthed DC one-shotting low CP players. Maybe they are having fun you wonder, or maybe they are just bored. On the bridge you see that there is an EP 6-man group farming casuals who don't yet feel shame for running into the meat grinder. You know better than to go in on them, so you turn around and kill a few pugs coming out of Alessia. After they respawn you don't feel like killing them again so you try to cross the bridge. The 6-man EP group is in comms - they recognize you as someone looking for decent small-scale, so they let you pass. But just as you crest the bridge, a full EP raid comes in hot, and as you try to jump off into the water they chain you back and then you dead.

Could be 20-30 mins gone by, and you had zero fun, and the map feels like zero fun all around. The only outlet is to complain about people zerging.

I know it's not exactly everyone's experience, but the point is that the pvp design is one dimensional. If you are not fighting keep to keep, there is no place for you. This is why people take resources - they are hoping for a smaller fight, and they get sad when 24 players come to take the resource back. Look at how big Cyrodiil is - it's a great map, but the pvp is played out in just a fraction of it. It's a design and gameplay issue above all else. The main incentive to pvp should be the gameplay - the rewards and progression (items/achievements) should be cherry-on-top. The gameplay should be a deep satisfying rhythm and the rewards a catchy melody.

We need:

1. A meaningful spread of smaller objectives around the map.*
2. A more regular calendar of events - why not have a double AP weekend once a month?
3. Better rewards system, as many have proposed.

*The devs need to look at what they did with the towns and ask themselves why it wasn't successful. Perhaps too far away? Too long to capture? No impact on campaign score? It was promising that they added something new to Cyrodiil - but the implementation was poor, and long term they have added little to nothing to overall pvp gameplay.

TL;DR - Great ideas @KenaPKK put out there for bringing in new blood - but to retain new blood Cyrodiil needs more gameplay options - rewards aren't enough to keep people around.

Could not have said it better. OP has some great ideas. I am all for anything that encourages fights in various environments away from Keeps and resources. First cause of action however should be shutting down the campaigns they added alongside the event, no idea why there are still there.

Thing is if you're someone that has played this game for a while Cyrodiil just isn't that interesting a fighting environment to PvP in anymore, which is partially why IC was so much fun when it came out, the environment was so different to what we were used to. Any form of update along those lines is what I really long for nowadays and I know it won't last, but I dunno Cyrodiil just isn't as fun when you feel like you know and have exhausted every blade of grass available there, even the places that see little to no play on a daily basis.

So as @gibous says increasing incentive isn't everything, one dimensional gameplay is the main gripe, with the former being the go to approach for new blood and the latter for the returning players.

PvP just doesn't feel competitive in Cyrodiil if you are someone who plays typically solo or in a small group. Majority of the time I find myself in PvP winning fights I expect to win, losing fights I expect to lose (Zerged, unable to kite any longer or pull enemies successfully) and not engaging in fights you know are a lost cause (Large Groups) with all the in-between being people you know who just leave you be.

Point is I rarely get that awesome feeling of a good fight anymore, which is a shame.

Integral1900

How to get more players into cyrodiil.... assuming I can spell it... create pve only instances of that and imperial city... job done

Integral1900

Seriousely though, like most pve types I only pvp when we have little to no choice

In pve i can put the rare... and I do mean rare... a-hole you encounter on ignore, but grinding warhorn for my tank was one of the most vile and toxic experiences I've had in any game. I wouldn't do it again no matter how vast the reward is

I would rather pay crowns to level those skills than go back to pvp

Chances are that if you want more pvp players you will have to get them from outside the game for the most part

Derra

Kilandros wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

One of the most important things is imo:

Reduce groupsize.
Large groups put up a huge barrier people have to overcome to participate. The smaller the amount of people needed - the easier it is to get people to try to participate.
It´s easier to grab 5 friends out of a guild and form a semi functional group than it is to grab 15.
It also places more focus on guilds (multiple groups organised within the guild) and less one large group.
It´s a disincentive to run purgebots/rapidbots in group that put you at a huge advantage over "normal" players/builds.

Artificially trying to promote smaller group play by capping group size won't change anything. The only way to get small scale action to make a return is by reining back the balance changes that have made numbers the dominant meta.

Parties of 5 can still stack together to steamroll a single Party of 5

Oh i don´t want that to promote smallscale action.
I want it to promote zerg action where people feel compelled to participate.
I´m actually a huge fan of zerging and largescale pvp - eso is just delivering a pretty trash experience in that regard.

Currently the ability of a large group to change the tide of battle (or just mindlessly farm pugs for hours) is far to influencial on general pvp. You can not fight a large group unless you´re running one yourself (or you can fight but you can not kill them).
This is a huge hurdle to overcome for new players.

Changing groupsize changes the dynamic of zerging because it becomes harder to organize (and optimizing at the same level we´re seeing at the moment won´t be possible anymore because sth like rapid or purgebots will simply vanish).
Getting 4 parties of 5 to stick together is way harder than getting 19 people to follow crown AND it´s less effective if you restrict certain effects to group only.

The core argument is: Finding 5 people to play with is easier than finding 15.
Pvp needs to be accessible. Largescale pvp is the main goal for cyrodiil - yet it´s the most inaccessible form of pvp there is.
It´s not about changing how people play. It´s about getting them to play in the first place and having it as accessible as possible.

To promote smallscale you´d have to bring mobility back. That´s an entirely different page.

zyk

Here's a way to stop discouraging new players from playing PVP:

Stop forming OP groups and farming randoms. Instead, why not look for other OP groups for actually good fights?

It's really surprising to me that this is still *such* a thing.

pcar944

the RotW have been asked to be reworked for as long as I can remember, and nothing

useless gear vs siege that you can actually use ...

Apherius

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

• Make achievement point useful
• introduce more Motif that we can buy with AP.

Achievement point ?
Did you mean Alliance point ?

no achievement points, once you have 26 500 achievement point you have to go in cyrodiil to increase this , and make achievement point useful could bring some PVE players in PVP cause ( excuse me ) it's not so hard to gain achievement in PVP ...

anitajoneb17_ESO

Apherius wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

• Make achievement point useful
• introduce more Motif that we can buy with AP.

Achievement point ?
Did you mean Alliance point ?

no achievement points, once you have 26 500 achievement point you have to go in cyrodiil to increase this , and make achievement point useful could bring some PVE players in PVP cause ( excuse me ) it's not so hard to gain achievement in PVP ...

Well... 2 things here...
1/ People with over 25K achievement points are very, very few and far between. Completely irrelevant when it comes to "re-populating Cyrodiil".
2/ I think PvP achievements are very hard to obtain. Unless you stick to a zerg (the very boring type of PvP in my humble opinion).

TBois

Man I miss zos's /lurk days

Autumnhart

PvE-ers like clear objectives. Once they get that taking ring keeps means emperor for the faction and scrolls mean buffs for the faction, that's what they want to do. Meanwhile PvP vets are farming AP or ignoring the map and scrolls and just looking for fights. Or PvE guy has stumbled into a buff server and there's nobody there from their faction, or their faction already has everything. I wouldn't come back either.

Vivec is less populated now because that many PvPers are more interested in single-color buff servers. Well done ZOS for figuring out how to take the population pressure off, I guess.

Population balance would help a lot. So would better performance. So would scoring and AP gains changes. I'll just hold my breath waiting for that.

NightbladeMechanics

Derra wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

One of the most important things is imo:

Reduce groupsize.
Large groups put up a huge barrier people have to overcome to participate. The smaller the amount of people needed - the easier it is to get people to try to participate.
It´s easier to grab 5 friends out of a guild and form a semi functional group than it is to grab 15.
It also places more focus on guilds (multiple groups organised within the guild) and less one large group.
It´s a disincentive to run purgebots/rapidbots in group that put you at a huge advantage over "normal" players/builds.

Artificially trying to promote smaller group play by capping group size won't change anything. The only way to get small scale action to make a return is by reining back the balance changes that have made numbers the dominant meta.

Parties of 5 can still stack together to steamroll a single Party of 5

Oh i don´t want that to promote smallscale action.
I want it to promote zerg action where people feel compelled to participate.
I´m actually a huge fan of zerging and largescale pvp - eso is just delivering a pretty trash experience in that regard.

Currently the ability of a large group to change the tide of battle (or just mindlessly farm pugs for hours) is far to influencial on general pvp. You can not fight a large group unless you´re running one yourself (or you can fight but you can not kill them).
This is a huge hurdle to overcome for new players.

Changing groupsize changes the dynamic of zerging because it becomes harder to organize (and optimizing at the same level we´re seeing at the moment won´t be possible anymore because sth like rapid or purgebots will simply vanish).
Getting 4 parties of 5 to stick together is way harder than getting 19 people to follow crown AND it´s less effective if you restrict certain effects to group only.

The core argument is: Finding 5 people to play with is easier than finding 15.
Pvp needs to be accessible. Largescale pvp is the main goal for cyrodiil - yet it´s the most inaccessible form of pvp there is.
It´s not about changing how people play. It´s about getting them to play in the first place and having it as accessible as possible.

To promote smallscale you´d have to bring mobility back. That´s an entirely different page.

This is.....a very interesting and compelling argument.

I too love unorganized large scale PvP -- "unorganized" meaning no ball groups present, just a big siege with mostly small groups and pugs and maybe a few large groups who don't ball up on each other and roll over everyone else, with several skirmishes happening at the same time all over and around the keep.

I wonder how such a change would affect the game in the long term for the current large scale players. @Satiar @Vincelex and @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO if ZOS were to implement a group cap of 5, how would you and your guildies react?

montiferus

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Vdsa weapons should be put back into the end of the campaign rewards for the top tier pvpers. I miss my master weapons. As for them being vMA weapons no. Those should only be earned thru vMA. Now people are gonna say why one and not the other. Well strictly on one reason. We got master weapons before and should receive them again for top tier pvpers. Now I would change on how it works tho.
.

Your argument is illogical. Just because it was done in the past doesn't mean it should be available now. Just because you grind AP doesn't entitle you to rewards for the hardest 4 man content in the game. No trial gear should ever drop in PVP. As others have mentioned there should be top tier PVP specific sets given to top tier PVP players.

Satiar

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

One of the most important things is imo:

Reduce groupsize.
Large groups put up a huge barrier people have to overcome to participate. The smaller the amount of people needed - the easier it is to get people to try to participate.
It´s easier to grab 5 friends out of a guild and form a semi functional group than it is to grab 15.
It also places more focus on guilds (multiple groups organised within the guild) and less one large group.
It´s a disincentive to run purgebots/rapidbots in group that put you at a huge advantage over "normal" players/builds.

Artificially trying to promote smaller group play by capping group size won't change anything. The only way to get small scale action to make a return is by reining back the balance changes that have made numbers the dominant meta.

Parties of 5 can still stack together to steamroll a single Party of 5

Oh i don´t want that to promote smallscale action.
I want it to promote zerg action where people feel compelled to participate.
I´m actually a huge fan of zerging and largescale pvp - eso is just delivering a pretty trash experience in that regard.

Currently the ability of a large group to change the tide of battle (or just mindlessly farm pugs for hours) is far to influencial on general pvp. You can not fight a large group unless you´re running one yourself (or you can fight but you can not kill them).
This is a huge hurdle to overcome for new players.

Changing groupsize changes the dynamic of zerging because it becomes harder to organize (and optimizing at the same level we´re seeing at the moment won´t be possible anymore because sth like rapid or purgebots will simply vanish).
Getting 4 parties of 5 to stick together is way harder than getting 19 people to follow crown AND it´s less effective if you restrict certain effects to group only.

The core argument is: Finding 5 people to play with is easier than finding 15.
Pvp needs to be accessible. Largescale pvp is the main goal for cyrodiil - yet it´s the most inaccessible form of pvp there is.
It´s not about changing how people play. It´s about getting them to play in the first place and having it as accessible as possible.

To promote smallscale you´d have to bring mobility back. That´s an entirely different page.

This is.....a very interesting and compelling argument.

I too love unorganized large scale PvP -- "unorganized" meaning no ball groups present, just a big siege with mostly small groups and pugs and maybe a few large groups who don't ball up on each other and roll over everyone else, with several skirmishes happening at the same time all over and around the keep.

I wonder how such a change would affect the game in the long term for the current large scale players. @Satiar @Vincelex and @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO if ZOS were to implement a group cap of 5, how would you and your guildies react?

If it happened a long time ago we'd probably rush to make teams and squads and such. As is we're probably too tired and worn out with the game to really expend the energy

Morgul667

What is impacting my pvp experience? It is when one faction is pop locked and there is noone in the opposite team. Map is dead and no fun whichever side you are on

A way to reduce this would be a move in the right direction

Drummerx04

Honestly, just drastically improving the performance and stability of Cyrodiil would go a very long way to making PvP more engaging. People leave my group daily because they crash or otherwise disconnect 5 times in an hour just to come back into cyrodiil with 3 second skill delay and 10 frames on a decently built computer.

It's really not okay, and it looks really bad from an outside perspective. How can I show someone how fun ESO is with insane skill lag and 10 fps?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

One of the most important things is imo:

Reduce groupsize.
Large groups put up a huge barrier people have to overcome to participate. The smaller the amount of people needed - the easier it is to get people to try to participate.
It´s easier to grab 5 friends out of a guild and form a semi functional group than it is to grab 15.
It also places more focus on guilds (multiple groups organised within the guild) and less one large group.
It´s a disincentive to run purgebots/rapidbots in group that put you at a huge advantage over "normal" players/builds.

Artificially trying to promote smaller group play by capping group size won't change anything. The only way to get small scale action to make a return is by reining back the balance changes that have made numbers the dominant meta.

Parties of 5 can still stack together to steamroll a single Party of 5

Oh i don´t want that to promote smallscale action.
I want it to promote zerg action where people feel compelled to participate.
I´m actually a huge fan of zerging and largescale pvp - eso is just delivering a pretty trash experience in that regard.

Currently the ability of a large group to change the tide of battle (or just mindlessly farm pugs for hours) is far to influencial on general pvp. You can not fight a large group unless you´re running one yourself (or you can fight but you can not kill them).
This is a huge hurdle to overcome for new players.

Changing groupsize changes the dynamic of zerging because it becomes harder to organize (and optimizing at the same level we´re seeing at the moment won´t be possible anymore because sth like rapid or purgebots will simply vanish).
Getting 4 parties of 5 to stick together is way harder than getting 19 people to follow crown AND it´s less effective if you restrict certain effects to group only.

The core argument is: Finding 5 people to play with is easier than finding 15.
Pvp needs to be accessible. Largescale pvp is the main goal for cyrodiil - yet it´s the most inaccessible form of pvp there is.
It´s not about changing how people play. It´s about getting them to play in the first place and having it as accessible as possible.

To promote smallscale you´d have to bring mobility back. That´s an entirely different page.

This is.....a very interesting and compelling argument.

I too love unorganized large scale PvP -- "unorganized" meaning no ball groups present, just a big siege with mostly small groups and pugs and maybe a few large groups who don't ball up on each other and roll over everyone else, with several skirmishes happening at the same time all over and around the keep.

I wonder how such a change would affect the game in the long term for the current large scale players. @Satiar @Vincelex and @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO if ZOS were to implement a group cap of 5, how would you and your guildies react?

For me group size is dependant on enemies we are fighting if the cap of 5 encouraged less faction stacking we would potentially just run a few 5 man's spread across the map. If it didn't we would run a few 5 man's together on the map. No point being a huge raid if you don't have something to fight it with. The issue would be support chars with purge and rapids being group locked. Stam raids would probs be the way for people who want to play as large groups still to go hypothetically.

Juhasow

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Vdsa weapons should be put back into the end of the campaign rewards for the top tier pvpers. I miss my master weapons. As for them being vMA weapons no. Those should only be earned thru vMA. Now people are gonna say why one and not the other. Well strictly on one reason. We got master weapons before and should receive them again for top tier pvpers. Now I would change on how it works tho.

You could only get them on the 30 day campaigns cuz right now pc na doesn't have the pvp population to keep 7 campaigns open.

Fix the lag
Double the AP from keep defenses. I so miss those chalamo ticks
Fix the FPS issues we've been having for 2 yrs

Last but not least. Rework the RotW like Agrippa mentioned in his post and so many positive comments to make RotW better.

Do that and I can see new player joining and old players coming back.

How that change is connected to thread title ? Top tier players dont need to be attracted to PvP. They're spending there all their free time and casual players most likely will go on vDSA to get the weapons then spend 30 days on Cyro to have a chance to get them. It's 1-2 hours against 30 days where is attracvtion here ?

I dont see the reason why vDSA weapons should be reintroduced in PvP again and reasoning this with fact it was that way in the past isnt enough for me since lot of things changed since that days.

Doubling the AP for keep defenses will result quite opposite to other 2 wishes because more people will zerg in 1 place which will result larger lag and lower FPS on whole map which make PvP less enjoyable so people who plays for fun not for AP's will leave.

Kilandros

Derra wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

One of the most important things is imo:

Reduce groupsize.
Large groups put up a huge barrier people have to overcome to participate. The smaller the amount of people needed - the easier it is to get people to try to participate.
It´s easier to grab 5 friends out of a guild and form a semi functional group than it is to grab 15.
It also places more focus on guilds (multiple groups organised within the guild) and less one large group.
It´s a disincentive to run purgebots/rapidbots in group that put you at a huge advantage over "normal" players/builds.

Artificially trying to promote smaller group play by capping group size won't change anything. The only way to get small scale action to make a return is by reining back the balance changes that have made numbers the dominant meta.

Parties of 5 can still stack together to steamroll a single Party of 5

Oh i don´t want that to promote smallscale action.
I want it to promote zerg action where people feel compelled to participate.
I´m actually a huge fan of zerging and largescale pvp - eso is just delivering a pretty trash experience in that regard.

Currently the ability of a large group to change the tide of battle (or just mindlessly farm pugs for hours) is far to influencial on general pvp. You can not fight a large group unless you´re running one yourself (or you can fight but you can not kill them).
This is a huge hurdle to overcome for new players.

Changing groupsize changes the dynamic of zerging because it becomes harder to organize (and optimizing at the same level we´re seeing at the moment won´t be possible anymore because sth like rapid or purgebots will simply vanish).
Getting 4 parties of 5 to stick together is way harder than getting 19 people to follow crown AND it´s less effective if you restrict certain effects to group only.

The core argument is: Finding 5 people to play with is easier than finding 15.
Pvp needs to be accessible. Largescale pvp is the main goal for cyrodiil - yet it´s the most inaccessible form of pvp there is.
It´s not about changing how people play. It´s about getting them to play in the first place and having it as accessible as possible.

To promote smallscale you´d have to bring mobility back. That´s an entirely different page.

Ah, I understand. It's an interesting thought. I, too, enjoy large scale PvP--but unfortunately performance has deteriorated to such a degree that the game simply can't handle the fights we were promised. But I also enjoy small scale PvP--again, unfortunately, balance has deteriorated to such a degree that throwing larger numbers at virtually at any fight is the single greatest advantage one side can have.

I tried PvPing a couple of nights ago for the first time in weeks. Wherever our group of 3 went, we got a response of 30+. When we finally decided to defend BRK for a bit, the lag was so bad that sound cut out, abilities failed to fire, we were rubberbanding across the keep.

It's basically a lose-lose situation right now. Balance changes and sustain changing have made fighting outnumbered pretty painful. I used to love holding a tower with 5 people against 30. But ZOS has decided that numbers should always win no matter how bad the player. Fine, so be it. But then I try to do large scale PvP and the servers just can't handle it.

This is why people aren't logging in anymore. It's not that we're burnt out after double AP. It's that we're burnt out because PvP sucks no matter what your playstyle.

Kilandros

montiferus wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Vdsa weapons should be put back into the end of the campaign rewards for the top tier pvpers. I miss my master weapons. As for them being vMA weapons no. Those should only be earned thru vMA. Now people are gonna say why one and not the other. Well strictly on one reason. We got master weapons before and should receive them again for top tier pvpers. Now I would change on how it works tho.
.

Your argument is illogical. Just because it was done in the past doesn't mean it should be available now. Just because you grind AP doesn't entitle you to rewards for the hardest 4 man content in the game. No trial gear should ever drop in PVP. As others have mentioned there should be top tier PVP specific sets given to top tier PVP players.

VDSA is hard?

Adenoma

I don't think vDSA is hard. Certainly not as hard as the new DLC dungeons or the old ones pre nerfs. We had a great team, but we only had one or two deaths our first run through together.

I like the idea of reducing group size. Five might be drastic, but eight to twelve seems reasonable. @Derra is 100% correct that it's a lot less of a barrier to find a couple people to stick on crown compared to 12+.

WillhelmBlack

I've wanted Daedric Artifacts for years.

The artifacts when equipped could provide massive buffs to yourself and group. The can despawn and respawn in random places on the map. Inside dungeons or under bridges etc. They would show up on the map.

Imagine turning players into chickens with the Wabbajack.

I also wanna see banners that provide small buffs to your group. Bannermen could provide a damage shield to friendly players inside a 12m radius for example. If the Bannermen are killed enemy teams can burn it. You'd then have to buy another with AP or craft one.

montiferus

Kilandros wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Vdsa weapons should be put back into the end of the campaign rewards for the top tier pvpers. I miss my master weapons. As for them being vMA weapons no. Those should only be earned thru vMA. Now people are gonna say why one and not the other. Well strictly on one reason. We got master weapons before and should receive them again for top tier pvpers. Now I would change on how it works tho.
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Your argument is illogical. Just because it was done in the past doesn't mean it should be available now. Just because you grind AP doesn't entitle you to rewards for the hardest 4 man content in the game. No trial gear should ever drop in PVP. As others have mentioned there should be top tier PVP specific sets given to top tier PVP players.

VDSA is hard?

that isnt what i said. re read

Derra

Kilandros wrote: »

It's basically a lose-lose situation right now. Balance changes and sustain changing have made fighting outnumbered pretty painful. I used to love holding a tower with 5 people against 30. But ZOS has decided that numbers should always win no matter how bad the player. Fine, so be it. But then I try to do large scale PvP and the servers just can't handle it.

This is why people aren't logging in anymore. It's not that we're burnt out after double AP. It's that we're burnt out because PvP sucks no matter what your playstyle.

This hits pretty close to home. True words!

zyk

Kilandros wrote: »

It's basically a lose-lose situation right now. Balance changes and sustain changing have made fighting outnumbered pretty painful. I used to love holding a tower with 5 people against 30. But ZOS has decided that numbers should always win no matter how bad the player. Fine, so be it. But then I try to do large scale PvP and the servers just can't handle it.

I don't think those were ever good fights. At least not by my definition. My background in competitive play was in first person shooters and no one cared about how good anyone else was on public servers. Nor would anyone in any developed competitive medium from sports to writing to games like chess.

Our competitive culture here is an anomaly because the rewards have always made experienced/organized/hardcore vs inexperienced/disorganized/casual the default engagement. Farming less capable players has always been most profitable which is just bad design.

I've spent my afternoon fighting good groups running resource farms. Sure, those groups are outnumbered, but they have every other advantage. The one or two decent players who show up don't make it a good fight.

I would actually like to run in some small groups, but the small group culture in this game is just dumb. I would rather get farmed with incapable teammates than look for incapable opponents. At least I'm fighting good opponents when I do.

We should drop this outnumbered absurdity and try to arrange actually good fights against comparable opponents. It's impossible to always achieve this in AvA, but we can do much better than we are doing. An added benefit to this is that the casuals who would be farmed have a greater opportunity to have a good time fighting each other. That makes them more likely to keep playing and grow into experienced players.

WillhelmBlack

zyk wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

It's basically a lose-lose situation right now. Balance changes and sustain changing have made fighting outnumbered pretty painful. I used to love holding a tower with 5 people against 30. But ZOS has decided that numbers should always win no matter how bad the player. Fine, so be it. But then I try to do large scale PvP and the servers just can't handle it.

I don't think those were ever good fights. At least not by my definition. My background in competitive play was in first person shooters and no one cared about how good anyone else was on public servers. Nor would anyone in any developed competitive medium from sports to writing to games like chess.

Our competitive culture here is an anomaly because the rewards have always made experienced/organized/hardcore vs inexperienced/disorganized/casual the default engagement. Farming less capable players has always been most profitable which is just bad design.

I've spent my afternoon fighting good groups running resource farms. Sure, those groups are outnumbered, but they have every other advantage. The one or two decent players who show up don't make it a good fight.

I would actually like to run in some small groups, but the small group culture in this game is just dumb. I would rather get farmed with incapable teammates than look for incapable opponents. At least I'm fighting good opponents when I do.

We should drop this outnumbered absurdity and try to arrange actually good fights against comparable opponents. It's impossible to always achieve this in AvA, but we can do much better than we are doing. An added benefit to this is that the casuals who would be farmed have a greater opportunity to have a good time fighting each other. That makes them more likely to keep playing and grow into experienced players.

Nice one Zyk. Feel exactly the same. There's some players in game that love nothing better than hate whisper. It's always a small scaler. The other whispers I get from opponents usually from a pug group, are compliments and questions and I answer all of them. I literally stop what I'm doing and tell them every detail of my build and how to counter it so they can get better and be more competitive.

I've always preferred the fight, not rolling over everyone with broken ultimates, skills etc.

Satiar

zyk wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

It's basically a lose-lose situation right now. Balance changes and sustain changing have made fighting outnumbered pretty painful. I used to love holding a tower with 5 people against 30. But ZOS has decided that numbers should always win no matter how bad the player. Fine, so be it. But then I try to do large scale PvP and the servers just can't handle it.

I don't think those were ever good fights. At least not by my definition. My background in competitive play was in first person shooters and no one cared about how good anyone else was on public servers. Nor would anyone in any developed competitive medium from sports to writing to games like chess.

Our competitive culture here is an anomaly because the rewards have always made experienced/organized/hardcore vs inexperienced/disorganized/casual the default engagement. Farming less capable players has always been most profitable which is just bad design.

I've spent my afternoon fighting good groups running resource farms. Sure, those groups are outnumbered, but they have every other advantage. The one or two decent players who show up don't make it a good fight.

I would actually like to run in some small groups, but the small group culture in this game is just dumb. I would rather get farmed with incapable teammates than look for incapable opponents. At least I'm fighting good opponents when I do.

We should drop this outnumbered absurdity and try to arrange actually good fights against comparable opponents. It's impossible to always achieve this in AvA, but we can do much better than we are doing. An added benefit to this is that the casuals who would be farmed have a greater opportunity to have a good time fighting each other. That makes them more likely to keep playing and grow into experienced players.

It's a side effect of top end guilds capping their numbers for years. Over time it's created a mentality that it's more about how few people you have and how many you're fighting. It's a dumb mentality and it's always been dumb.