We need incentives to bring regular players back into Cyrodiil, and to attract non-PvPers to try PvP

Satiar

waitwhat wrote: »

Add gold mats to vendors for 100k AP each, perhaps purchasable after a certain alliance rank or after a given daily quest is completed.

Alternatively, Grand Warlord Sorcalin could sent us some--or have a chance to-- in the rewards for the worthy once we reach First Seargant G1.

You don't want to nuke the economy, but handing out useful rewards like that, tied to real, authentic participation would help.

Even AP doesn't cut it. AP doesn't bring life to the map. Imagine: in the middle of the 3 trikeeps there's a resource rich area. Tons of flowers, or tons of mining. Imagine crafting/trade guilds setting up shop there, enemy guilds making raids on the area. You could get an entire pve/pvp ecosystem there, guilds raiding or providing protection, trade guilds forming alliances with pvp guide for protection or to obtain resources.... just one half-baked idea but still! It can't just be AP, it was never enough. Not to create an interconnected pvp community.

waitwhat

Satiar wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Add gold mats to vendors for 100k AP each, perhaps purchasable after a certain alliance rank or after a given daily quest is completed.

Alternatively, Grand Warlord Sorcalin could sent us some--or have a chance to-- in the rewards for the worthy once we reach First Seargant G1.

You don't want to nuke the economy, but handing out useful rewards like that, tied to real, authentic participation would help.

Even AP doesn't cut it. AP doesn't bring life to the map. Imagine: in the middle of the 3 trikeeps there's a resource rich area. Tons of flowers, or tons of mining. Imagine crafting/trade guilds setting up shop there, enemy guilds making raids on the area. You could get an entire pve/pvp ecosystem there, guilds raiding or providing protection, trade guilds forming alliances with pvp guide for protection or to obtain resources.... just one half-baked idea but still! It can't just be AP, it was never enough. Not to create an interconnected pvp community.

@Satiar

I support your idea. Perhaps make it so that the resources of a keep actually produce resources for the alliance that owns it? We'd want these special areas to keep moving.

waitwhat

Also, more than you would thing, there are plenty of us that fight for the pride of winning the campaign by outmaneuvering the other alliances on a large scale over 30 days. We're easy to miss in zone chat if a player is focused on themselves and not the alliance.

Satiar

waitwhat wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Add gold mats to vendors for 100k AP each, perhaps purchasable after a certain alliance rank or after a given daily quest is completed.

Alternatively, Grand Warlord Sorcalin could sent us some--or have a chance to-- in the rewards for the worthy once we reach First Seargant G1.

You don't want to nuke the economy, but handing out useful rewards like that, tied to real, authentic participation would help.

Even AP doesn't cut it. AP doesn't bring life to the map. Imagine: in the middle of the 3 trikeeps there's a resource rich area. Tons of flowers, or tons of mining. Imagine crafting/trade guilds setting up shop there, enemy guilds making raids on the area. You could get an entire pve/pvp ecosystem there, guilds raiding or providing protection, trade guilds forming alliances with pvp guide for protection or to obtain resources.... just one half-baked idea but still! It can't just be AP, it was never enough. Not to create an interconnected pvp community.

@Satiar

I support your idea. Perhaps make it so that the resources of a keep actually produce resources for the alliance that owns it? We'd want these special areas to keep moving.

Possibly, and it goes through whoever owns the keep. Basically you just want to bring two halves of the community together and create supply and demand. It feels like they put PvP in a barren fishbowl and we've been swimming around in it endlessly and 1 by 1 we listlessly stop circling. Same for pve tbh.

Not all will share my view but imo Cyrodiil should have been THE high end zone. All three factions converge there. It was an amazing opportunity.

Ishammael

At this point, it has to be new.
Just adding resources won't change much because they are the same mechanic, 2 years old. Needed to be in the game 2 yrs ago.

Content is king.

NightbladeMechanics

Ishammael wrote: »

At this point, it has to be new.
Just adding resources won't change much because they are the same mechanic, 2 years old. Needed to be in the game 2 yrs ago.

Content is king.

It's a sound and enlightened attitude -- merging PvE and PvP, making Cyrodiil the high end zone where the two fight together over something they both want.

But yea, I need something new too. Not necessarily a new map, though. A new dynamic and new gameplay patterns in Cyro would be enough to keep me engaged.

What could change in Cyro to make you want to come back and play hardcore like you did in the old days? Anything? I don't see ZOS developing any brand new map the same size as Cyro, nor do I see just a new map creating long term enthusiasm for PvP.

@Satiar what about you? What could ZOS do that would bring back our enthusiasm for Cyro, if anything?

tinythinker

OP, as others have said, there used to be PvP/PvE crossover but it was removed. There are many things they could do to make Cyro and IC more interesting (the AvA section is at bottom), but there is another issue that someone points out:

Beardimus wrote: »

Too many decent players keep rolling toons to steam roll people - and THAT puts people off. People need half a chance in PvP to survive...

I don't begrudge players who have great gear/builds and skill, but you don't learn much by getting totally waxed. My own experience in 3+ years of PvP, when facing a 1v1, is pretty simple. I lose.

Imagine ranking players on 1 to 10 scale. A 1 means no experience in PvP with random pieces of dropped gear and a 10 is "I can kill you naked with my fists" level of skill and an all gold well-designed custom gear setup. I started as 1 and stayed there for a while. I used to improve, before patch 2.0, and got up to a rank 3. But, if I am solo and alone, I always run into a 5+ player. If I do run into a rank 1 or 2 or 3, another 10 players show up from my side or theirs before the fight really gets going. Out of hundreds of these encounters, I've survived/won maybe 6-8 times. The average fight takes 3 seconds, with many being 0.2 second ganks and the odd outlier being a 40-60 second actual engagement. If you can't survive, you can't learn from the encounter or get any practice. You just die.

So, as a "forever 3", even with years of experience and knowing all about the way you *should* (if you can) make a good build, I just stick close to groups even when I am solo, focus on support/heals/weakening enemies, and run siege. I am excellent at knowing when things are going bad before everyone else and finding my escape route when the tide turns.

Why do I describe this? Because many people won't enjoy Cyro enough to just be healing/siege support, especially since the opportunities for diversifying roles exclusive to AvA and PvP aren't capitalized on. And if they are getting rolled, new/low skill-rank PvPers will either get into a massive zerg or leave.

It would be nice if there was some kind of ranked competition to let players get comfortable with PvP at their own speed and figure out which approaches/builds would suit them best. I had really hoped this would be an option with Battlegrounds, but it isn't. BGs are just a distillation of what those rank 1-3 find most discouraging in AvA. Dueling is an option if you rank yourselves and have a group/guild to practice with, but it would be helpful if ZOS provided more opportunities to "rank up" via sorting in BGs.

zyk

PVE in Cyrodiil isn't easy to balance because of the population cap. If the campaigns held 2k total players, sure, let's have crazy diversity. But player estimates generally seem to hit at about 150 per faction. The last thing we need are for servers to be poplocked primarily because of PVE activities.

Furthermore, I don't think PVP is made better by spending our time bombing PVE harvesting zergs.

What I would like to see are some high risk/high reward areas of the map. These areas would be inherently more difficult to play in and less rewarding to less effective players. The goal would be to attract the best players in the game to compete for lucrative loot/AP rewards. By attracting the best players to these areas, the skill barrier in other parts of the map becomes reduced.

Some ideas on how to make some areas more challenging to play in:
- No FCs -- if your group wipes, the fight is over. You lost. Enjoy horse sim.
- Perhaps, *gasp*, death penalties.
- High AP objectives that only reward a limited number of players.
-- These objectives would take group contributions into account so a tank who doesn't heal or do damage in a successful group is one of the few rewarded; the high damage solo guy is not. No leeching.
-- The number of players rewarded could vary to promote group play of different sizes.

Perhaps these high risk/high reward areas can be activated dynamically based on server conditions. For example, when there's a need for players to spread out. When the campaign is dead, they are deactivated to encourage players to condense.

By limiting the number of areas like this, good players are encouraged to spread out across all three factions instead of condensing in one or two factions.

I think IC was supposed to be something like this, but that opportunity was lost when it became a DLC and therefore needed to be accessible to all players, regardless of aptitude.

Joy_Division

tinythinker wrote: »

OP, as others have said, there used to be PvP/PvE crossover but it was removed. There are many things they could do to make Cyro and IC more interesting (the AvA section is at bottom), but there is another issue that someone points out:

Beardimus wrote: »

Too many decent players keep rolling toons to steam roll people - and THAT puts people off. People need half a chance in PvP to survive...

I don't begrudge players who have great gear/builds and skill, but you don't learn much by getting totally waxed. My own experience in 3+ years of PvP, when facing a 1v1, is pretty simple. I lose.

Imagine ranking players on 1 to 10 scale. A 1 means no experience in PvP with random pieces of dropped gear and a 10 is "I can kill you naked with my fists" level of skill and an all gold well-designed custom gear setup. I started as 1 and stayed there for a while. I used to improve, before patch 2.0, and got up to a rank 3. But, if I am solo and alone, I always run into a 5+ player. If I do run into a rank 1 or 2 or 3, another 10 players show up from my side or theirs before the fight really gets going. Out of hundreds of these encounters, I've survived/won maybe 6-8 times. The average fight takes 3 seconds, with many being 0.2 second ganks and the odd outlier being a 40-60 second actual engagement. If you can't survive, you can't learn from the encounter or get any practice. You just die.

So, as a "forever 3", even with years of experience and knowing all about the way you *should* (if you can) make a good build, I just stick close to groups even when I am solo, focus on support/heals/weakening enemies, and run siege. I am excellent at knowing when things are going bad before everyone else and finding my escape route when the tide turns.

Why do I describe this? Because many people won't enjoy Cyro enough to just be healing/siege support, especially since the opportunities for diversifying roles exclusive to AvA and PvP aren't capitalized on. And if they are getting rolled, new/low skill-rank PvPers will either get into a massive zerg or leave.

It would be nice if there was some kind of ranked competition to let players get comfortable with PvP at their own speed and figure out which approaches/builds would suit them best. I had really hoped this would be an option with Battlegrounds, but it isn't. BGs are just a distillation of what those rank 1-3 find most discouraging in AvA. Dueling is an option if you rank yourselves and have a group/guild to practice with, but it would be helpful if ZOS provided more opportunities to "rank up" via sorting in BGs.

Excellent post.

Many of us have said for year now that ZoS needs to do something to incentivize going to the unused 85% of the map. With real reasons to spread out, everyone would get into more of the manageable smaller fights that would help players like tiny describes here become better all around (i.e. not just healing and sieging).

generalmyrick

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I consider Midyear Mayhem a widely popular event, but since its end, PvP on NA/PC has been slower and Cyrodiil emptier than I've ever seen it. My assumption is that everyone was motivated to PvP a ton for the rewards, enjoyed PvP being crammed with players in all corners of the map on every campaign, and then burned out a little after the event ended -- that much is to be expected. However, when regular PvPers recovered from their burnout and considered coming back to the game, they realized how lacking PvP is compared to how it could be, shrugged, and went to do other things.

Many of my friends log on once or twice a week now, down from nightly. I have barely played since the event. PvP has honestly been pretty boring for the last couple months, aside from the event. Vivec doesn't reach locks during the week now, and queues are small on the weekends. We also all know people who have quit outright over the years. We need incentives to bring regular PvPers back to the game.

But we also need incentives to bring new blood to Cyrodiil. I asked some PvEers what ZOS could do to increase their interest in PvP, and one said "what if owning a region in Cyrodiil gave benefits to your faction outside of Cyrodiil, like if you own certain keeps as EP, you get double node drops in Shadowfen?"

Not that I'd be terribly interested in double node drops in Shadowfen myself, but that's the example he gave. I imagine a lot of people would be interested in some sort of benefit bleeding over from Cyrodiil to their activities outside of Cyrodiil as an incentive to get them into PvP. Other ideas I've seen on the forums and heard in conversations haven't reached out to PvE zones, but they include:

• Reworking RftW.
• Spontaneous events spawning on the map for us to run to and fight over. These could include giant daedric bosses protecting a special 7th scroll, mobile Imperial caravans to take out, or any other large objectives for the factions to brawl over.
• More objective flags planted in towns and ruins around the map.
• High-yield resource nodes spawning around some of said new objective flags, harvestable by the faction which owns the nearest flag. (Players like the idea of sustaining potion usage with their PvP rewards.)
• A new transitus network that can port a trickle of players -- say 4 per minute -- across long distances based on ownership of objectives around the edges of the map.
• Finishing the IC island area, letting us cross the broken bridges, and linking Cyrodiil and IC directly.
• Expanding IC objectives.
• Reintroducing Master or vMA weapons to end of campaign victory rewards, or creating a new type of 1pc weapon that amplifies Alliance War abilities.
• Increasing defensive ticks.
• And I'm sure I'm forgetting many.

Naturally, we should avoid ideas that impact leaderboards (we all know how buff servers went...). What other ideas have you had or heard out there, and what are your thoughts on all of this?

i like this @NightbladeMechanics dude...very smart and...smart! :-)

Mureel

There's no POINT to PVP in this game. I don't give two sharts about the keeps. *shrugs*

Many PVPers complain/ask for nerfs too much all the time.

I wish PVP was utterly reinvented or flat out deleted.

That said, I still do sometimes PVP, if I am OMW anywhere (I like Cyrodiil what can I say, PVP happens), but other than the more skillpoints and and skills I need, meh. I don't wanna spend my gold and ap buying stuff to fight a brick wall so I can repair it and have a big, boring building.

If the area improved over time, that would be nice. If the Guild who owned that keep got sent some kind of bonus divided among members that would be nice.

Reward mails (at least the standard rank and file sergeant ones) are junk, too.

PVP just needs a rework into something that has a point.

NightbladeMechanics

Mureel wrote: »

There's no POINT to PVP in this game. I don't give two sharts about the keeps. *shrugs*

Many PVPers complain/ask for nerfs too much all the time.

I wish PVP was utterly reinvented or flat out deleted.

That said, I still do sometimes PVP, if I am OMW anywhere (I like Cyrodiil what can I say, PVP happens), but other than the more skillpoints and and skills I need, meh. I don't wanna spend my gold and ap buying stuff to fight a brick wall so I can repair it and have a big, boring building.

If the area improved over time, that would be nice. If the Guild who owned that keep got sent some kind of bonus divided among members that would be nice.

Reward mails (at least the standard rank and file sergeant ones) are junk, too.

PVP just needs a rework into something that has a point.

What attracts you to the types of play that you enjoy regularly?

generalmyrick wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I consider Midyear Mayhem a widely popular event, but since its end, PvP on NA/PC has been slower and Cyrodiil emptier than I've ever seen it. My assumption is that everyone was motivated to PvP a ton for the rewards, enjoyed PvP being crammed with players in all corners of the map on every campaign, and then burned out a little after the event ended -- that much is to be expected. However, when regular PvPers recovered from their burnout and considered coming back to the game, they realized how lacking PvP is compared to how it could be, shrugged, and went to do other things.

Many of my friends log on once or twice a week now, down from nightly. I have barely played since the event. PvP has honestly been pretty boring for the last couple months, aside from the event. Vivec doesn't reach locks during the week now, and queues are small on the weekends. We also all know people who have quit outright over the years. We need incentives to bring regular PvPers back to the game.

But we also need incentives to bring new blood to Cyrodiil. I asked some PvEers what ZOS could do to increase their interest in PvP, and one said "what if owning a region in Cyrodiil gave benefits to your faction outside of Cyrodiil, like if you own certain keeps as EP, you get double node drops in Shadowfen?"

Not that I'd be terribly interested in double node drops in Shadowfen myself, but that's the example he gave. I imagine a lot of people would be interested in some sort of benefit bleeding over from Cyrodiil to their activities outside of Cyrodiil as an incentive to get them into PvP. Other ideas I've seen on the forums and heard in conversations haven't reached out to PvE zones, but they include:

• Reworking RftW.
• Spontaneous events spawning on the map for us to run to and fight over. These could include giant daedric bosses protecting a special 7th scroll, mobile Imperial caravans to take out, or any other large objectives for the factions to brawl over.
• More objective flags planted in towns and ruins around the map.
• High-yield resource nodes spawning around some of said new objective flags, harvestable by the faction which owns the nearest flag. (Players like the idea of sustaining potion usage with their PvP rewards.)
• A new transitus network that can port a trickle of players -- say 4 per minute -- across long distances based on ownership of objectives around the edges of the map.
• Finishing the IC island area, letting us cross the broken bridges, and linking Cyrodiil and IC directly.
• Expanding IC objectives.
• Reintroducing Master or vMA weapons to end of campaign victory rewards, or creating a new type of 1pc weapon that amplifies Alliance War abilities.
• Increasing defensive ticks.
• And I'm sure I'm forgetting many.

Naturally, we should avoid ideas that impact leaderboards (we all know how buff servers went...). What other ideas have you had or heard out there, and what are your thoughts on all of this?

i like this @NightbladeMechanics dude...very smart and...smart! :-)

just doing my best to look out for everyone.

Autumnhart

Satiar wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Add gold mats to vendors for 100k AP each, perhaps purchasable after a certain alliance rank or after a given daily quest is completed.

Alternatively, Grand Warlord Sorcalin could sent us some--or have a chance to-- in the rewards for the worthy once we reach First Seargant G1.

You don't want to nuke the economy, but handing out useful rewards like that, tied to real, authentic participation would help.

Even AP doesn't cut it. AP doesn't bring life to the map. Imagine: in the middle of the 3 trikeeps there's a resource rich area. Tons of flowers, or tons of mining. Imagine crafting/trade guilds setting up shop there, enemy guilds making raids on the area. You could get an entire pve/pvp ecosystem there, guilds raiding or providing protection, trade guilds forming alliances with pvp guide for protection or to obtain resources.... just one half-baked idea but still! It can't just be AP, it was never enough. Not to create an interconnected pvp community.

@Satiar

I support your idea. Perhaps make it so that the resources of a keep actually produce resources for the alliance that owns it? We'd want these special areas to keep moving.

Possibly, and it goes through whoever owns the keep. Basically you just want to bring two halves of the community together and create supply and demand. It feels like they put PvP in a barren fishbowl and we've been swimming around in it endlessly and 1 by 1 we listlessly stop circling. Same for pve tbh.

Not all will share my view but imo Cyrodiil should have been THE high end zone. All three factions converge there. It was an amazing opportunity.

I wonder if Craglorn had been a PVP-enabled zone instead of a group-quest zone, would it have died so fast and hard? They don't seem to know where to go with endgame. It should have been PVP.

But that thought always brings me full circle to: whatever the reason, the server can't handle it.

Vilestride

Autumnhart wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Add gold mats to vendors for 100k AP each, perhaps purchasable after a certain alliance rank or after a given daily quest is completed.

Alternatively, Grand Warlord Sorcalin could sent us some--or have a chance to-- in the rewards for the worthy once we reach First Seargant G1.

You don't want to nuke the economy, but handing out useful rewards like that, tied to real, authentic participation would help.

Even AP doesn't cut it. AP doesn't bring life to the map. Imagine: in the middle of the 3 trikeeps there's a resource rich area. Tons of flowers, or tons of mining. Imagine crafting/trade guilds setting up shop there, enemy guilds making raids on the area. You could get an entire pve/pvp ecosystem there, guilds raiding or providing protection, trade guilds forming alliances with pvp guide for protection or to obtain resources.... just one half-baked idea but still! It can't just be AP, it was never enough. Not to create an interconnected pvp community.

@Satiar

I support your idea. Perhaps make it so that the resources of a keep actually produce resources for the alliance that owns it? We'd want these special areas to keep moving.

Possibly, and it goes through whoever owns the keep. Basically you just want to bring two halves of the community together and create supply and demand. It feels like they put PvP in a barren fishbowl and we've been swimming around in it endlessly and 1 by 1 we listlessly stop circling. Same for pve tbh.

Not all will share my view but imo Cyrodiil should have been THE high end zone. All three factions converge there. It was an amazing opportunity.

I wonder if Craglorn had been a PVP-enabled zone instead of a group-quest zone, would it have died so fast and hard? They don't seem to know where to go with endgame. It should have been PVP.

But that thought always brings me full circle to: whatever the reason, the server can't handle it.

While I agree with that statement about end game being pvp. Unfortunately the vast majority of players would not and would strongly protest having to do any pvp.

Vaoh

Good suggestions!

However, these wouldn't help with your goal. The only way to really get a lot more people legitimately interested in PvP is for ZOS to follow up on their old promise of fixing Cyrodiil lag.

In other words - never gonna happen. What's sad is that lag/FPS drops is not even excusive to Cyrodiil yet they still won't dedicate the time to have a true performance improvement update.

Satiar

waitwhat wrote: »

Also, more than you would thing, there are plenty of us that fight for the pride of winning the campaign by outmaneuvering the other alliances on a large scale over 30 days. We're easy to miss in zone chat if a player is focused on themselves and not the alliance.

Yeah, I should know.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

At this point, it has to be new.
Just adding resources won't change much because they are the same mechanic, 2 years old. Needed to be in the game 2 yrs ago.

Content is king.

It's a sound and enlightened attitude -- merging PvE and PvP, making Cyrodiil the high end zone where the two fight together over something they both want.

But yea, I need something new too. Not necessarily a new map, though. A new dynamic and new gameplay patterns in Cyro would be enough to keep me engaged.

What could change in Cyro to make you want to come back and play hardcore like you did in the old days? Anything? I don't see ZOS developing any brand new map the same size as Cyro, nor do I see just a new map creating long term enthusiasm for PvP.

@Satiar what about you? What could ZOS do that would bring back our enthusiasm for Cyro, if anything?

Not much to do there. Vehemence is retiring from ESO and so am I. Only real way we'd come back is if the game was a thriving pvp haven, without performance issues that plagued it for years. As is it just doesn't work right and pretty much all the old competitors are gone with naught to replace them.

Eyesinthedrk

Meh. Most people I've talked to have left for two reasons

Troll tanks and proc cheese.

You can make a whole newer better most awesomest cyrodiil. But if I'm still having to chase tanks around trees or getting killed by armor rather than people, I'm out. I'd rather PUG a dungeon.

Agrippa_Invisus

Satiar wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Also, more than you would thing, there are plenty of us that fight for the pride of winning the campaign by outmaneuvering the other alliances on a large scale over 30 days. We're easy to miss in zone chat if a player is focused on themselves and not the alliance.

Yeah, I should know.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

At this point, it has to be new.
Just adding resources won't change much because they are the same mechanic, 2 years old. Needed to be in the game 2 yrs ago.

Content is king.

It's a sound and enlightened attitude -- merging PvE and PvP, making Cyrodiil the high end zone where the two fight together over something they both want.

But yea, I need something new too. Not necessarily a new map, though. A new dynamic and new gameplay patterns in Cyro would be enough to keep me engaged.

What could change in Cyro to make you want to come back and play hardcore like you did in the old days? Anything? I don't see ZOS developing any brand new map the same size as Cyro, nor do I see just a new map creating long term enthusiasm for PvP.

@Satiar what about you? What could ZOS do that would bring back our enthusiasm for Cyro, if anything?

Not much to do there. Vehemence is retiring from ESO and so am I. Only real way we'd come back is if the game was a thriving pvp haven, without performance issues that plagued it for years. As is it just doesn't work right and pretty much all the old competitors are gone with naught to replace them.

Steve,

You know my feelings towards VE very well already.

I will say I am going to miss the challenge of dealing with them.

Competitors thrive when there's challenge and sport on the other side.

Now DC's just going to be a chore to deal with, not a challenge.

Good luck to you and Kirsi and Kirin.

Satiar

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Also, more than you would thing, there are plenty of us that fight for the pride of winning the campaign by outmaneuvering the other alliances on a large scale over 30 days. We're easy to miss in zone chat if a player is focused on themselves and not the alliance.

Yeah, I should know.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

At this point, it has to be new.
Just adding resources won't change much because they are the same mechanic, 2 years old. Needed to be in the game 2 yrs ago.

Content is king.

It's a sound and enlightened attitude -- merging PvE and PvP, making Cyrodiil the high end zone where the two fight together over something they both want.

But yea, I need something new too. Not necessarily a new map, though. A new dynamic and new gameplay patterns in Cyro would be enough to keep me engaged.

What could change in Cyro to make you want to come back and play hardcore like you did in the old days? Anything? I don't see ZOS developing any brand new map the same size as Cyro, nor do I see just a new map creating long term enthusiasm for PvP.

@Satiar what about you? What could ZOS do that would bring back our enthusiasm for Cyro, if anything?

Not much to do there. Vehemence is retiring from ESO and so am I. Only real way we'd come back is if the game was a thriving pvp haven, without performance issues that plagued it for years. As is it just doesn't work right and pretty much all the old competitors are gone with naught to replace them.

Steve,

You know my feelings towards VE very well already.

I will say I am going to miss the challenge of dealing with them.

Competitors thrive when there's challenge and sport on the other side.

Now DC's just going to be a chore to deal with, not a challenge.

Good luck to you and Kirsi and Kirin.

I still think us rerolling caused more bad feelings than if we'd just been a native DC guild, but overall I doubt most ppl even know we were EP these days. ''Tis all ancient history.

My only real sadness is that DC never developed more guilds during our tenure. We really hoped that our presence would inspire more guilds to climb the ranks as it were, but it's mostly in the same spot we found it. That's prob more on ZoS than anything else tho.

Telel

ZOS needs to adopt a little motto that Telel brings up every time the pack runs a deep penetration into the Backside's of our opponents home areas.

Make every inch count

That is to say that all that 'empty' land mass khajiit and company run amok in needs to have a reason to be seen , and not just be there because Oblivion was set in the same general region.

For example all these ruins, camps, and stockades would make great places to place some kind of temporary base. These bases could then permit respawning for group members who placed 'supplies' in the base. If you limit the respawn range to an area roughly as big as the space between two keeps you now have a respawn option besides camps that plays to the style of fast and mobile PVPers. Specifically those of us who fight in smaller groups and often get wiped by much larger ones.

This one has also long said that reworking the emperor mechanic to include more map control would also be nice. Not just holding keeps but actually controlling other points on the maps like the small towns, certain delves, choke points, etc. Then have it operate more like flag flipping but on a huge scale.

E.G the more map spots you control the faster the emp gauge fills up. Once it's full someone gets Emperor until it drops below a certain amount.

Bonus points if they'd also include something for PVEers to do to help their alliance. Then perhaps they'd be less looked down upon by those of us who are fighting zergs while they're running out of keeps that are under siege.

Also move IC to its own server just like BGs.

diskiukas

Satiar wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Also, more than you would thing, there are plenty of us that fight for the pride of winning the campaign by outmaneuvering the other alliances on a large scale over 30 days. We're easy to miss in zone chat if a player is focused on themselves and not the alliance.

Yeah, I should know.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

At this point, it has to be new.
Just adding resources won't change much because they are the same mechanic, 2 years old. Needed to be in the game 2 yrs ago.

Content is king.

It's a sound and enlightened attitude -- merging PvE and PvP, making Cyrodiil the high end zone where the two fight together over something they both want.

But yea, I need something new too. Not necessarily a new map, though. A new dynamic and new gameplay patterns in Cyro would be enough to keep me engaged.

What could change in Cyro to make you want to come back and play hardcore like you did in the old days? Anything? I don't see ZOS developing any brand new map the same size as Cyro, nor do I see just a new map creating long term enthusiasm for PvP.

@Satiar what about you? What could ZOS do that would bring back our enthusiasm for Cyro, if anything?

Not much to do there. Vehemence is retiring from ESO and so am I. Only real way we'd come back is if the game was a thriving pvp haven, without performance issues that plagued it for years. As is it just doesn't work right and pretty much all the old competitors are gone with naught to replace them.

Thats really sad for DC, always liked you guys.

Vizier

PvP is it's own reward, but I hear ya.

Actually balancing the game would be a good start for giving incentive for folks to pvp... still..I hear ya.

Midyear Mayhem was fun and earned tons of AP. If truth be told, I played too much. Pushed it for that AP. It was impossible to maintain that pace after the event and I think it just burned out a ton of players. If they are anything like me they had to take a break..still. I hear ya bud.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

The most frustrating thing about Cyrodil is that half of the time, you are fighting not other players but the game itself. On NA PC, there is only one CP campaign and by 4 pm, it is poplocked. So, you sit in queue for a few minutes. And finally, you can enter Cyrodil. Ten minutes later, you are at Bleaks and the game starts to crash...ping is 999+ and you are at single digit FPS. You crash and when you log back in, you get to sit in the queue again. You spend more time in the queue than you do actually in Cyrodil. You get back in Cyrodil and get to the fight and are zerged and die...you rez at the nearest home keep and LOADING SCREEN. You don't want to close the game because of the queue and you sit in the loading screen... only to finally exit the loading screen dead... remember, it was your home keep but while in the loading screen, it was burst and taken by the enemy. You obviously came out of the load screen for the other faction long before you saw the end of the load screen.

THEN, you see the people who never take any damage, the other factions able to spawn at FCs or repairing the breech when you are actively hitting it with siege and you are never able to do such, it gets very frustrating. Or you hear about the bolstering where people are basically trading kill AP to get to the top of the leaderboards. All you need is a guildie to make a character in the other faction and then trade kills. Honestly, I don't get it. The RotW are not very good.

I will be the first to admit that I PVP more for the social aspect of the guild that I run with than the AP. These days, it is fewer and fewer people. We use to have groups of 12-16, but these days, we are lucky to get 4 in for PVP. Usually the same 4 people. There are many nights that I am solo and just trying to contribute to the faction. I find it amusing that the other factions send half a raid to kill an arthritic 50 year old lady who is just by herself with a ballista who is still learning how to PVP.

SmellyUnlimited

Sandman929 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

All innovations in the world will not change anything as long as the PvPers themselves don't change their mentality (taunting, insulting, rage whispers, tea-bagging, etc. )

It's just too toxic.

Also the design promotes too much zerging and "stick-to-the-crown" type of gameplay, instead of spreading over, developing strategies, etc. I'm sorry but I don't log into the game to have to follow the crown's a** like on dog on a lane.

Pretty much in agreement here. Cyrodiil is the reason new players don't stick around in Cyrodiil very long. It's a slow downward spiral towards the point where the only residents are people who've become numb to it.

Amen. There is too much disparity between PvE and PvP (entirely different builds, different skills, different play styles). It's very demoralizing for new PvPers to go up against a "pro" who can single-handedly wipe out 5 of them. The schism the grows, because thats just not fun (and that's what this game should be about).

Also, side note, Cyrodil is the most boring looking zone in the game. Just green fields, and castles that look exactly the same. I can't understand the desire that some people want to play exclusively in PvP. PvE is where ESO truly shines.

Lore_lai

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Amen. There is too much disparity between PvE and PvP (entirely different builds, different skills, different play styles). It's very demoralizing for new PvPers to go up against a "pro" who can single-handedly wipe out 5 of them. The schism the grows, because thats just not fun (and that's what this game should be about).

See, I don't think it's harder now for the newbie.
Back before battle-leveling was introduced across the board, when you could only play in CP enabled campaign with no CP cap, and when gear was harder to get - that is when I think it was harder to start out.
At least if you were low VR. Don't get me wrong - it was terrible to have lowbie PvP with CP enabled because high CP players were just face-rolling that, but when you got to VR and had 10 CP (lol), had no battle leveling so your stats were absolutely terrible and you ran into CP 700 players - yeah good luck.

Gear was much harder to get too - back before undaunted keys were not as easy to get in great amounts like now, when you had to grind for an eternity sometimes to get that helmet you wanted, when you couldn't trade with players in your group, when it would take you what felt like forever to get that full set of VR16 gear, even if it was crafted because of how much you had to grind for Ancestor Silk etc.

Now everyone is rolling around in sets, monster sets and with 50k health left and right.

Azurya

Being every night in an endless queue for Cyro, tells me there are enough who want to get there.
so don´t really get the point about bringing more ppl there...........

Derra

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Also, side note, Cyrodil is the most boring looking zone in the game. Just green fields, and castles that look exactly the same. I can't understand the desire that some people want to play exclusively in PvP. PvE is where ESO truly shines.

I think cyrodiil is one of the most beautiful zones in the game an certainly the most diverse in terms of settings/locations.

It´s just nobody ever goes anywhere but the emp keep ring.

Thrymbauld

I think AP really IS where it's at, at least as a starter item, I'll build into why that is.

How many "PvP only" players are actually doing a fair bit of PvE just to get their Undaunted passives, or to get gear and coin to finance their PvP habit?

The answer for me is....all the PvE. I've no interest in trials, no interest in dungeons I can't solo, any of that PvE rot. I enjoyed it a great deal once upon a time, but it's just not where my hearts at. Every piece of gear I get is intended for PvP use or experimentation.

The vast majority of that gear is gained through PvE because the vast majority of truly usable DPS gear is PvE.

The solution to drawing people to PvP? Let them buy it with the AP they earn from it. And from this, I do mean everything, whether it be a gold conversion(a real one, not the workarounds people use) to let you buy it on merchants or outright allow the purchase of anything conceivably useful in PvP with AP.

Now, they are earning AP toward the items they would otherwise be PvEing for in the first place. People needn't be drawn there that don't want to be there, and people that want to be there exclusively can do so. The population will come to rest at precisely the size that the PvP population actually wants to be.

Tenn60

I agree with some of the other posts. Pvp and pve both have potential to be toxic. I think the biggest thing is who you play with. Teabaging doesn't bother me as much as people just telling someone they can't do something without offering help or even advice. I've left a lot more trial guilds then I have pvp guilds simply because most trial guilds become ________(fill in the blank with any word probably not allowed on the forums) after a while even ones started as "teaching" guilds. I think it more depends on what you enjoy your naturally going to be more numb to the bad parts of that then the bad parts of something you don't enjoy as much. And personally I see the worst part of pvp is how many people are scared to die or be "exposed" like you aren't good if you get killed. I die a lot and kill a lot doesn't affect me, either way I'm going to wake up the next morning and go back to work and come home and do it again. My advice is do what you enjoy doing, if you want more people in pvp then talk to people, help them get into pvp because I have only stayed playing this game because of the people I play with

casparian

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

On NA PC, there is only one CP campaign

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