We need incentives to bring regular players back into Cyrodiil, and to attract non-PvPers to try PvP

NightbladeMechanics

I consider Midyear Mayhem a widely popular event, but since its end, PvP on NA/PC has been slower and Cyrodiil emptier than I've ever seen it. My assumption is that everyone was motivated to PvP a ton for the rewards, enjoyed PvP being crammed with players in all corners of the map on every campaign, and then burned out a little after the event ended -- that much is to be expected. However, when regular PvPers recovered from their burnout and considered coming back to the game, they realized how lacking PvP is compared to how it could be, shrugged, and went to do other things.

Many of my friends log on once or twice a week now, down from nightly. I have barely played since the event. PvP has honestly been pretty boring for the last couple months, aside from the event. Vivec doesn't reach locks during the week now, and queues are small on the weekends. We also all know people who have quit outright over the years. We need incentives to bring regular PvPers back to the game.

But we also need incentives to bring new blood to Cyrodiil. I asked some PvEers what ZOS could do to increase their interest in PvP, and one said "what if owning a region in Cyrodiil gave benefits to your faction outside of Cyrodiil, like if you own certain keeps as EP, you get double node drops in Shadowfen?"

Not that I'd be terribly interested in double node drops in Shadowfen myself, but that's the example he gave. I imagine a lot of people would be interested in some sort of benefit bleeding over from Cyrodiil to their activities outside of Cyrodiil as an incentive to get them into PvP. Other ideas I've seen on the forums and heard in conversations haven't reached out to PvE zones, but they include:

• Reworking RftW.
• Spontaneous events spawning on the map for us to run to and fight over. These could include giant daedric bosses protecting a special 7th scroll, mobile Imperial caravans to take out, or any other large objectives for the factions to brawl over.
• More objective flags planted in towns and ruins around the map.
• High-yield resource nodes spawning around some of said new objective flags, harvestable by the faction which owns the nearest flag. (Players like the idea of sustaining potion usage with their PvP rewards.)
• A new transitus network that can port a trickle of players -- say 4 per minute -- across long distances based on ownership of objectives around the edges of the map.
• Finishing the IC island area, letting us cross the broken bridges, and linking Cyrodiil and IC directly.
• Expanding IC objectives.
• Reintroducing Master or vMA weapons to end of campaign victory rewards, or creating a new type of 1pc weapon that amplifies Alliance War abilities.
• Increasing defensive ticks.
• And I'm sure I'm forgetting many.

Naturally, we should avoid ideas that impact leaderboards (we all know how buff servers went...). What other ideas have you had or heard out there, and what are your thoughts on all of this?

WaltherCarraway

Tons of free AP for ball zerg group anyway

Kram8ion

Right now the only thing that keeps me in cyrodil is the golden every week but only need one or two more monster helms and then I don't know
Cyrodil needs fortnightly or monthly events to keep interest

NBrookus

The incentive I need to play more often is helping balance campaign populations, right-size fights and stop stacking extra advantages to the faction/group that already has the numbers or buffs. Ideas:

• Scrolls should have a bigger impact on score, but not give the faction that has them combat buffs.
• Home keep d-ticks and o-ticks should be much higher than taking or defending enemy keeps. Choosing to go into enemy territory should be strategic or for fun, not an AP farming operation.
• Instead of giving the faction with low pop extra points towards the score, they should get buffs so it's easier to fight outnumbered and, perhaps, more AP.
• Dynamic population caps. Don't let one faction stack 3 bars into a campaign with 5 people on the opposite side if there are campaigns with open slots for their faction. This would mean getting rid of the lock for home/guest and letting people play any camp (except non-vet) as a guest.
• Stop empowering zergs with extra powerful aoe damage and healing skills and sets. Instead being too close to a large number of friendly players -- grouped or not -- reduces your damage and healing; debuffs which grow with escalating numbers.
• Better group tools. Crown should be able to assign a player to co-administer the group (invites/kicks) and be the default crown inheritor if the crown crashes so crown can focus on leading.
• Oh yeah, and the abyssmal lag in SHOR tonight when no enemies were even around? The number of load screens, invisible players and people crashing? Unacceptable in what is supposed to be a AAA MMO.

MipMip

I agree with the OP saying that we need to attract new / more players to Cyrodiil and I like many of your ideas (Master and / or vMA weapons again as campaign rewards, yay!)

What I am not sure about is offering rewards (like more drops of loot in PvE areas) that may just attract PvE players to do some PvP even though they dislike it, just as I do PvE even though I dislike it because I need certain sets and Undaunted passives for PvP. It's good for a game to offer both PvP and PvE but players shouldn't be forced to play both if they like only one of the two.

Qbiken

Like the ideas aside from a few:

* More flags: Never liked the concept of flags. Perhaps it has to do with how strong the guards are. Perhaps nerfing the guards a little.

* vMA/vDSA weapons as rewards: I know vDSA weapons used to come as rewards but I think trialdrops should come from trials only (not to be compared to overland gear that can be obtained by AP-boxes, overland gear is a different thing).

MipMip

Qbiken wrote: »

Like the ideas aside from a few:
....
* vMA/vDSA weapons as rewards: I know vDSA weapons used to come as rewards but I think trialdrops should come from trials only (not to be compared to overland gear that can be obtained by AP-boxes, overland gear is a different thing).

I would be ok with that if there were some other similarly interesting weapons that could be obtained through PvP, and yes that would probably be even better

Qbiken

MipMip wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Like the ideas aside from a few:
....
* vMA/vDSA weapons as rewards: I know vDSA weapons used to come as rewards but I think trialdrops should come from trials only (not to be compared to overland gear that can be obtained by AP-boxes, overland gear is a different thing).

I would be ok with that if there were some other similarly interesting weapons that could be obtained through PvP, and yes that would probably be even better

I would be ok with this

Arthg

Your suggestions are great, I love them, I so agree that more enticements to PvP should be implemented and all, but I just can't shed that feeling that you, we, are just flagelating a cadaverous bronco.

Subversus

I like all your ideas tbh. Especially the one where they make 1p weapons buffing something else. I don't mind if they made like 1p swords buffing/reducing the cost of like vigor and 1p staves reducing the cost of purge or something. And make them give max resources like vDSA or damage like vMA drops.

antihero727

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I consider Midyear Mayhem a widely popular event, but since its end, PvP on NA/PC has been slower and Cyrodiil emptier than I've ever seen it. My assumption is that everyone was motivated to PvP a ton for the rewards, enjoyed PvP being crammed with players in all corners of the map on every campaign, and then burned out a little after the event ended -- that much is to be expected. However, when regular PvPers recovered from their burnout and considered coming back to the game, they realized how lacking PvP is compared to how it could be, shrugged, and went to do other things.

Many of my friends log on once or twice a week now, down from nightly. I have barely played since the event. PvP has honestly been pretty boring for the last couple months, aside from the event. Vivec doesn't reach locks during the week now, and queues are small on the weekends. We also all know people who have quit outright over the years. We need incentives to bring regular PvPers back to the game.

But we also need incentives to bring new blood to Cyrodiil. I asked some PvEers what ZOS could do to increase their interest in PvP, and one said "what if owning a region in Cyrodiil gave benefits to your faction outside of Cyrodiil, like if you own certain keeps as EP, you get double node drops in Shadowfen?"

Not that I'd be terribly interested in double node drops in Shadowfen myself, but that's the example he gave. I imagine a lot of people would be interested in some sort of benefit bleeding over from Cyrodiil to their activities outside of Cyrodiil as an incentive to get them into PvP. Other ideas I've seen on the forums and heard in conversations haven't reached out to PvE zones, but they include:

• Reworking RftW.
• Spontaneous events spawning on the map for us to run to and fight over. These could include giant daedric bosses protecting a special 7th scroll, mobile Imperial caravans to take out, or any other large objectives for the factions to brawl over.
• More objective flags planted in towns and ruins around the map.
• High-yield resource nodes spawning around some of said new objective flags, harvestable by the faction which owns the nearest flag. (Players like the idea of sustaining potion usage with their PvP rewards.)
• A new transitus network that can port a trickle of players -- say 4 per minute -- across long distances based on ownership of objectives around the edges of the map.
• Finishing the IC island area, letting us cross the broken bridges, and linking Cyrodiil and IC directly.
• Expanding IC objectives.
• Reintroducing Master or vMA weapons to end of campaign victory rewards, or creating a new type of 1pc weapon that amplifies Alliance War abilities.
• Increasing defensive ticks.
• And I'm sure I'm forgetting many.

Naturally, we should avoid ideas that impact leaderboards (we all know how buff servers went...). What other ideas have you had or heard out there, and what are your thoughts on all of this?

There were incentives like this earlier in the game. If you had emperor you got pve buffs, it's been so long I can't remember exactly what. But we had buff servers back then and ever time you messed with them all the pve people would swarm the server get Emp and leave immediately. I believe this was even before imperial city. If you look back to the old forums people had real issues with it. We pve we don't want to pvp to get through trials and such. Can't win either way honestly. ZOS has catered to the casual crown store cash cow too much. Even they are getting bored with completely changing the meta and mechanics every 6 months. By the time the casual players farm the new meta gear it's already irrelevant. It's a bad model for keeping players interested. They always feel behind the 8ball and instead of playing the game they are always farming, that gets old quickly.

anitajoneb17_ESO

All innovations in the world will not change anything as long as the PvPers themselves don't change their mentality (taunting, insulting, rage whispers, tea-bagging, etc. )

It's just too toxic.

Also the design promotes too much zerging and "stick-to-the-crown" type of gameplay, instead of spreading over, developing strategies, etc. I'm sorry but I don't log into the game to have to follow the crown's a** like on dog on a lane.

Iyas

Stopped playing after the ap Event. Cant stand it anymore to have to fight against the same 30 tryhards like always

Zer0oo

The pvp will not change as long as the same devs, who made cyro in that extrem unplayable mess, make the decisions.

Sandman929

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

All innovations in the world will not change anything as long as the PvPers themselves don't change their mentality (taunting, insulting, rage whispers, tea-bagging, etc. )

It's just too toxic.

Also the design promotes too much zerging and "stick-to-the-crown" type of gameplay, instead of spreading over, developing strategies, etc. I'm sorry but I don't log into the game to have to follow the crown's a** like on dog on a lane.

Pretty much in agreement here. Cyrodiil is the reason new players don't stick around in Cyrodiil very long. It's a slow downward spiral towards the point where the only residents are people who've become numb to it.

Juhasow

Taking away lag is highest priority. It's bad performance that destroys the fun and gives even higher adventage to larger teams because they'll rush spamming 1-2 skills anyway but smaller group wont be able to outplay that with 900 ping. We need mechanics that will encourage people to split on whole map or even punish them for zerging too long in 1 place by drasticly lowering AP gain. That's silly that most of the time over 2/3 of campaign population fight in 1 place and rest of map is dead place but because of that crowd in 1 place whole map will lag anyway.

Beardimus

A lot of it is pre-conception. Some of the commenters on this thread have commented on other threads of this nature. I'm sure that every single time they logged into Cyrodiil they weren't objected to abuse, personally I see it very rarely, but it seems to be the card PvEers pull for reasons not to PvP.

And hey, everyone can play what they want to play, there is no forcing, and I think that's the thing - where there is a Will there is a Way. Personally I always saw PvP as end game, I dabbled in Cyro multiple occasions and struggled, and it took my annoyance with my PvE build huge nerf in January to give it a proper commitment.

Since then I have fallen in with some epic guilds, made great friends and the only 'abuse' I've ever suffered is hate mail after Tea Bagging someone

The only Toxic part of the game I see stacked with elitists is the Trials community - both Forum and game alike. 'Telling' people how to play, dislike of non-meta setups, DPS tests, etc.

Anyway back to the Op's point - I agree. More should be done to interest people - MUCH more needs to be made from Imperial City. (personally locking BOP Gold Willpower / Agility jewelry behind Tel Var or Key Fragments (as originally intended) would inspire life down there.

But I agree with many of your suggestions. I also think now leveling is SO fast that the non-vet server should be for the first toon you have L1-50. Too many decent players keep rolling toons to steam roll people - and THAT puts people off. LIke pre-mades in BG

People need half a chance in PvP to survive, People need motivation to go down (gear) and People need inspiring events / objectives to do to enjoy being in PvP land.

DeadlyRecluse

To bring new people into PvP, you need better incentives.

To keep experienced PvPers in PvP, you need new mechanics/challenges, etc.

...and to make it actually work, you need to make the rewards only active in non-buff servers (or delete the empty/buff/emp flip servers that have been left around since MYM.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

A simple step would be to revert many of the changes to mount and character speed.

It's simply no fun after a days work playing horse sim. I may have 60 to 90 minutes to play a day m-f. If I log in and see most of the action is brindle/dc, or the idea to ride and flag a keep to cut off another I haven't done in months specifically because of how slow a max speed mount feels now. I very well will log off and read a book. Riding to those locations at the current mount speed is that off putting for me.

I used to absolutely PvP daily, the speed changes across the board have really decreased my play time.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Beardimus wrote: »

A lot of it is pre-conception. Some of the commenters on this thread have commented on other threads of this nature. I'm sure that every single time they logged into Cyrodiil they weren't objected to abuse, personally I see it very rarely, but it seems to be the card PvEers pull for reasons not to PvP.

First you say we don't know what we're talking about...

Beardimus wrote: »

Since then I have fallen in with some epic guilds, made great friends and the only 'abuse' I've ever suffered is hate mail after Tea Bagging someone

Then you confirm that we're absolutely right.

I want to play for fun. Feeling hatred, whether incoming or outgoing, isn't part of my conception of fun. Playing (especially PvP) should make people laugh, not hate each other, even if only for a few minutes.
Also, Tea-bagging is a no-no (and no, don't start yet another debate, there's nothing to debate). NO.

Beardimus wrote: »

where there is a Will there is a Way.

The point of this thread isn't that there is a lack of ways, but that there is a lack of will.

Beardimus wrote: »

The only Toxic part of the game I see stacked with elitists is the Trials community - both Forum and game alike. 'Telling' people how to play, dislike of non-meta setups, DPS tests, etc.

I have yet to see anyone tea-bagging another player in PvE for having ranked higher in the leaderboards.

Minno

Qbiken wrote: »

Like the ideas aside from a few:

* More flags: Never liked the concept of flags. Perhaps it has to do with how strong the guards are. Perhaps nerfing the guards a little.

* vMA/vDSA weapons as rewards: I know vDSA weapons used to come as rewards but I think trialdrops should come from trials only (not to be compared to overland gear that can be obtained by AP-boxes, overland gear is a different thing).

The concept of flags is fine; it's the idea that they should deny you a fast rez that's the issue.

If we can decrease the horse ride without somehow impacting the speed in which keeps are taken, then it's possible players will come back. Fast + easy access to PvP will bring players; the lag and inability to understand the mechanics might keep them from staying.

zyk

Sandman929 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

All innovations in the world will not change anything as long as the PvPers themselves don't change their mentality (taunting, insulting, rage whispers, tea-bagging, etc. )

It's just too toxic.

Also the design promotes too much zerging and "stick-to-the-crown" type of gameplay, instead of spreading over, developing strategies, etc. I'm sorry but I don't log into the game to have to follow the crown's a** like on dog on a lane.

Pretty much in agreement here. Cyrodiil is the reason new players don't stick around in Cyrodiil very long. It's a slow downward spiral towards the point where the only residents are people who've become numb to it.

I can't speak to XB1, but in PC gaming, there is a greater PVP community. The players in this community tend to have a thick skin and the "toxicity" of eso would roll off most PVP enthusiasts. Toxicity isn't the reason ESO PVP isn't successful.

ESO's PVP community is so tame, it's kind of boring. Heated rivalries are a sign of a good PVP game.

It comes down to the PVP. If ESO had better PVP, word would spread and bona fide PVP players would return to play it. PVP players will play a good PVP game for no rewards at all.

Lexxypwns

@NightbladeMechanics

What about the fact that you need different gear for pvp? I know we can't homogenize all encounters so 1 set of gear fits every situation, but new players come to pvp and die near instantly because they're not running impen, enough sustain, whatever.

Perhaps a vendor that allows you to "borrow" blue gear while in cyrodiil. You hop in cyro and go to vendor X and get your impen gear in a small selection of sets for stam/mag/tanks. This gear can't be re-enchanted, traded, upgraded, modified in any way, or used outside cyrodiil.

I really like your ideas and love the concept of this thread! Something has to give and any way we can find to break down the barriers for getting into pvp will be huge. As I'm sure you are, I'm tired of fighting the same small selection of people all the time.

Theodard

NBrookus wrote: »

The incentive I need to play more often is helping balance campaign populations, right-size fights and stop stacking extra advantages to the faction/group that already has the numbers or buffs. Ideas:

• Scrolls should have a bigger impact on score, but not give the faction that has them combat buffs.
• Home keep d-ticks and o-ticks should be much higher than taking or defending enemy keeps. Choosing to go into enemy territory should be strategic or for fun, not an AP farming operation.
  ....
• Better group tools. Crown should be able to assign a player to co-administer the group (invites/kicks) and be the default crown inheritor if the crown crashes so crown can focus on leading.
  ....

Just wanted to touch on these points here, because honestly these _should_ be fairly small additions to the game that would be a great help. Especially the grouping tools aspect. I hadn't thought of that before much, but for my money that right there would be a great feature to have.

Nestor

If getting to IC would be easier, I bet more would show up. So...

1. Divorce IC from Campaigns. So many times I have wanted to go with a group, but unless we are all in the same campaign, nope, not going to happen.
2. Allow FT directly into the Home Base for your Alliance. Takes way to long to get to the content.
3. Queue only for IC, if needed.

Anazasi

I think an immediate fix would be eliminating the campaigns that were created for the pvp event. Please take them away. I know from my perspective AD NA PC east coast prime time. AD Is so underpopulated that holding the tri-keeps is simply a challenge and EP and DC during this time are so overpopulated that if a small group does try and work the map they are swarmed by 50 players. This type of behavior is why most AD are gone and soon to be more leaving.

Tackling the lag issues is a major task that ZOS has made great strides in, however, the FPS bug that has been around since launch should come first and foremost. In fact it very well could resolve the lag issue so many complain about. After that adding new content or changes always comes with a 50/50 chance something will be broken and honestly we just don't need more broken stuff in PVP. In fact we need all the broken stuff fixed before adding new broken stuff.

Fix rapids
Fix FPS
Fix lag
Fix the guards that spam relentlessly the same ability over and over
Fix the super tank builds with max DPS
Fix the proc sets
Fix the rampant use of CE to increase base stats like magic, stam, pen, resists and dodge chance.
Fix the stuff that makes PVP worth playing or just close it down and make it a PVE area.

kylewwefan

If the golden or the towns elite gear merchant constantly had legendary SPC, Worm, Ebon, Willpower etc....I know quite a few that would be in Cyrodil way more often.

But instead we get Senche, Syrbane, Shadow Poo, etc...

Gotta put something there PvE ers actually want.

Lexxypwns

kylewwefan wrote: »

If the golden or the towns elite gear merchant constantly had legendary SPC, Worm, Ebon, Willpower etc....I know quite a few that would be in Cyrodil way more often.

But instead we get Senche, Syrbane, Shadow Poo, etc...

Gotta put something there PvE ers actually want.

Definitely! The biggest non-bug/lag issues we have are: inaccessibility to non-pvpers, lack of incentive/rewards, and repetitive goals that get old to most people.

Beardimus

Honestly @anitajoneb17_ESO you are choosing to get offended by something. And that works both ways. I have had nothing but help in Cyrodiil from people yet elitist PvE players I've experienced can be obnoxious, so much so I avoid trials totally now. I PvE with friends only on hard content.

Are either of us right to tar a group of players with the same brush, no.

Type LFG in Cyro and you will group with people all on the sane mission that will help you.

I don't 'hate' at all, tea bagging to you seems some crime. To me its funny, and i would never do it to someone that wouldnt take it that way, i.e decent players who have done it to me before or been annoying on purpose.

Hey I've tea bagged mates who die as tanks in dungeons before, anyone that allows that comedy behaviour to offend them is reaching a little. BUT I do get annoyed at people telling me how to play I.e. Trials groups. Bragging about DPS scores, bragging about leaderboards etc as that's brash uncouth behaviour etc.

If you joined PvP as a first timer, were killed repeatedly and teabagged at your spawn every time you logged in, had no one to help you learn or Improve, and suffered true abuse then I feel for you. I know you are outspoken about PvP so perhaps so, that's just so rare sounding.

If you are Xbox EU I would happily help you in Cyro, get in groups, guilds, heck I would even craft you some Impen gear if you would like FOC as Genuinely its not this hate filled dog eat dog world you think it is.

Sandman929

Everyone's free to think people just need thicker skin, and players are free to not return to PvP when they're treated with what they might perceive as insulting behavior. I'm fine with it, I'm in PvP daily. I'd rather have new players join and stay in PvP than leave, so I don't try to be insulting.

CavalryPK

In my not so professional opinion pumping more ppl in cyro would just contribute to lag and larger zergs... what i would like to see is small scale fights ... where ppl are forced to go to certain locations of the maps. To incentivize this zos could do the following:

• mini quest the sends you to a random location on the map to gather resources for you alliance - this will make the farmers, traders and crafters come the pvp in order to get resources (crafting mats for armor or furniture). This place is random therefore hungry wolfs like ( @NightbladeMechanics ) who likes to murder and drink blood of his enemies would not be able to camp the spot.
• each alliance would give the quest with that has the same location to few ppl only . these way small groups would end up at each spot thus providing opportunity for a small scale pvp.
• resources that need to be collected can not be double looted... this means if DC already looted then AD has to kill the DC and loot their body for the resource.. (could function similar to telvar )

I don't think this is gonna be easy to implement. then again In my not so professional opinion I see it working well in my head.