So Miat's PVP addon can detect stealth players even when they are in stealth state?

geonsocal

friendly folks looking to have a quiet word with add-on creator...

Chronicburn

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

This addon represents everything that is wrong with the game.

Really? I thought it was the toxic community, inconsistent patch jobs, and inexorable dumbing down of game mechanics.

Guess that's just me.

You forgot constant nerfs, crappy housing, no auction, lack of jewel crafting, and lack of responsiveness by devs to community requests.

Ace_SiN

Vapirko wrote: »

You really shouldn’t have/need more clues than what they game already provides. Whatever ZOS says about this addon they’re just being lazy. I’ve tried it, its unnecessary and really shouldn’t be out there.

Yea it's 100% not necessary. ZOS built the combat around the concept of "not looking at the UI", so awareness was important. This addon gives everyone 100% awareness which just isn't fun as the attacker. Everyday I see players dodge rolling my range attacks, with perfect timing, as their backs are turned and they run away from me. It's ridiculous. This is 100% a cheat and not just a quality of life feature that addons provide.

NyassaV

@ZOS_RichLambert #BanMiat's

DeathHouseInc

Yeah finding out about this not too long ago definitely killed any desire for pvp and it was the main reason I started not too long ago. Pretty much have to write it off as a story game with things like this floating around.

WillhelmBlack

Put it in the Crown Store!

InvitationNotFound

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

the amount of miat's pvp alert threads is way too high >_<

Actually, we need more, flood the forums imo, let zos know this is not ok by any measure.

They are aware of it. Either it is okay for them or they don't care. As mentioned earlier, they have adjusted the API. There's no reason to believe they aren't okay with it when they already investigated it.

Keep it to one thread and you can have a "discussion" (besides i don't see what is left to discuss here). What is happening now can only be considered as spam (created by a few players).

A legitimate grievance that most players hve with an addon is not spam. If you think that, you are part of the problem.

It is spam. One thread would be enough to raise your concerns. Furthermore, there has to be a problem to be part of it

Let me guess, you are part of the cancerous playerbase that think this add on is "cool".

No, i simply don't care. It doesn't matter for me if you use this addon or not. besides there are a lot of cool things in this addon besides those alerts.

the issue i have is that this has been discussed several times. and as it seems zos has accepted it. i consider all those threads simply as spam now.

So because something is swept under the rug, and it is inherintly wrong, it is ok?

People now a days....

STEVIL wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

the amount of miat's pvp alert threads is way too high >_<

Actually, we need more, flood the forums imo, let zos know this is not ok by any measure.

They are aware of it. Either it is okay for them or they don't care. As mentioned earlier, they have adjusted the API. There's no reason to believe they aren't okay with it when they already investigated it.

Keep it to one thread and you can have a "discussion" (besides i don't see what is left to discuss here). What is happening now can only be considered as spam (created by a few players).

A legitimate grievance that most players hve with an addon is not spam. If you think that, you are part of the problem.

It is spam. One thread would be enough to raise your concerns. Furthermore, there has to be a problem to be part of it

Let me guess, you are part of the cancerous playerbase that think this add on is "cool".

No, i simply don't care. It doesn't matter for me if you use this addon or not. besides there are a lot of cool things in this addon besides those alerts.

the issue i have is that this has been discussed several times. and as it seems zos has accepted it. i consider all those threads simply as spam now.

So we should believe that your normal response to getting spam is to open it and start discussions it with the spammers?

or are we to assume that maybe the "i dont care" protestations are belied by your involvement?

Must ponder whether "vigorous proclamation of apathy" is a contradiction in terms.

well, i'm just sick and tired of it.

it has parallels of animation canceling. it was a bug (while this isn't one) and has been accepted. ZOS made that decision. every thread about animation canceling is a waste of time. it won't change.

ZOS took already care of this addon and the API. they made their decision. it is part of the game, it was what the developers think is okay. it doesn't matter how you feel about it. it won't change.

Opening more threads about it is simply one thing: spam and nothing else. There were many threads about it and currently there are at least two threads active. one opened by someone who wrote the same about it in the previous thread. There was no reason to open this one.

Just deal with the fact that this was the decision of ZOS. it doesn't matter at all how any of us feel about it. and if you want to complain, fine for me. but there is absolutely no reason to open more such *** threads hoping *** will change. it won't.

edit: typos... >_<

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Epona222 wrote: »

So is it deemed OK to use this then? It wouldn't normally be something I'd go for, but if a few people are using it, then everyone using it would level the playing field would it not?

ANYTHING is ok to use. ZOS never punishes anyone. Miat didn't like gankers because they were some of the few counters to his broken dodge roll exploit build so he wrote an add-on to "balance" stealth in PvP. When game balance is being decided by the players, that's when you know the goose has died.

So if you need any nerfs, buffs, dont ask wrobel, ask Miat. The players are balancing the game now.

STEVIL

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

the amount of miat's pvp alert threads is way too high >_<

Actually, we need more, flood the forums imo, let zos know this is not ok by any measure.

They are aware of it. Either it is okay for them or they don't care. As mentioned earlier, they have adjusted the API. There's no reason to believe they aren't okay with it when they already investigated it.

Keep it to one thread and you can have a "discussion" (besides i don't see what is left to discuss here). What is happening now can only be considered as spam (created by a few players).

A legitimate grievance that most players hve with an addon is not spam. If you think that, you are part of the problem.

It is spam. One thread would be enough to raise your concerns. Furthermore, there has to be a problem to be part of it

Let me guess, you are part of the cancerous playerbase that think this add on is "cool".

No, i simply don't care. It doesn't matter for me if you use this addon or not. besides there are a lot of cool things in this addon besides those alerts.

the issue i have is that this has been discussed several times. and as it seems zos has accepted it. i consider all those threads simply as spam now.

So because something is swept under the rug, and it is inherintly wrong, it is ok?

People now a days....

STEVIL wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

laced wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

the amount of miat's pvp alert threads is way too high >_<

Actually, we need more, flood the forums imo, let zos know this is not ok by any measure.

They are aware of it. Either it is okay for them or they don't care. As mentioned earlier, they have adjusted the API. There's no reason to believe they aren't okay with it when they already investigated it.

Keep it to one thread and you can have a "discussion" (besides i don't see what is left to discuss here). What is happening now can only be considered as spam (created by a few players).

A legitimate grievance that most players hve with an addon is not spam. If you think that, you are part of the problem.

It is spam. One thread would be enough to raise your concerns. Furthermore, there has to be a problem to be part of it

Let me guess, you are part of the cancerous playerbase that think this add on is "cool".

No, i simply don't care. It doesn't matter for me if you use this addon or not. besides there are a lot of cool things in this addon besides those alerts.

the issue i have is that this has been discussed several times. and as it seems zos has accepted it. i consider all those threads simply as spam now.

So we should believe that your normal response to getting spam is to open it and start discussions it with the spammers?

or are we to assume that maybe the "i dont care" protestations are belied by your involvement?

Must ponder whether "vigorous proclamation of apathy" is a contradiction in terms.

well, i'm just sick and tired of it.

it has parallels of animation canceling. it was a bug (while this isn't one) and has been accepted. ZOS made that decision. every thread about animation canceling is a waste of time. it won't change.

ZOS took already care of this addon and the API. they made their decision. it is part of the game, it was what the developers think is okay. it doesn't matter how you feel about it. it won't change.

Opening more threads about it is simply one thing: spam and nothing else. There were many threads about it and currently there are at least two threads active. one opened by someone who wrote the same about it in the previous thread. There was no reason to open this one.

Just deal with the fact that this was the decision of ZOS. it doesn't matter at all how any of us feel about it. and if you want to complain, fine for me. but there is absolutely no reason to open more such *** threads hoping *** will change. it won't.

edit: typos... >_<

Thinks about number and frequency of miats threads vs the same for injustice pvp or animation cancel or bots or Op sorc or unkillable tanks or.... any number of far more oft repeated threads and just cannot figure out what it is about these that makes some folks get so bent out of shape over this much less frequent issue being re-threaded.

The i realize this same poster likely went into all of those other more common re-threads and posted the same thing there too and i must have just missed it... since it cannot be just about pushing back against more miat specific threads.

Fur_like_snow

I've yet to see any video proof that miat's is giving warning about attacks from stealth. My understanding is that the API doesn't provide the information necessary to create such an alert.

Morgul667

Just ban this cheater addon already

Knootewoot

People complain about one-shot stamina NB's and then praise this addon.

They forget about us poor dual wield magblades in light armor which are totally rendered useless thanks to this cheat-on.

Uggggh, moan, complain.

Haven't PvP'ed for weeks because it has so many issues.
Cheat-ons
Proc sets
Poisons
Loading screens
no softcaps
stamina rollblades
sorc's, they ruin everything
this
and that
no PvP update for years except torchbugs and deer removed

I gave up I think on PvP. When I log in the servers I want to play on are either empty or have 1 faction poplocked (mostly not my faction) or the server is so packed and is CP and lags like hell.

/cry

Chilly-McFreeze

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

I've yet to see any video proof that miat's is giving warning about attacks from stealth. My understanding is that the API doesn't provide the information necessary to create such an alert.

@Fur_like_snow

At least I does provide you informations about cast time abilities from stealth.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374249/zenimax-restrict-your-api/p1

Video on 1st post, at 30 seconds

Freecry

Anyway, this kind of post is done by the same people (probably casual pvp players).
these people are frustrated because they can't easily kill someone in pvp or are killed too often.
these people say cheat but 95% is lag, bug or specific gear. 5% can be suspect.
It's more easy say Cheat than L2P or try understand meta (not easy at all this)
If you don't want be frustrated don't pvp.

Morgul667

Freecry wrote: »

Anyway, this kind of post is done by the same people (probably casual pvp players).
these people are frustrated because they can't easily kill someone in pvp or are killed too often.
these people say cheat but 95% is lag, bug or specific gear. 5% can be suspect.
It's more easy say Cheat than L2P or try understand meta (not easy at all this)
If you don't want be frustrated don't pvp.

Most people complaining about cheaters, are indeed exaggerating. The other guy is just better, get over it.

But this Add-on and those API are cheats.

Zbigb4life

Get rid of the add on and ban players who use it

Zbigb4life

out51d3r wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

There's no grey area as in 'smart people can do what ZOS prevented them to do to gain advantage'.

Definitely. You are using the tools ZOS provides. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not ZOS should provide those specific tools is a reasonable question, but it's ultimately irrelevant unless they remove them. We all play the game that we have, not the perfect game that exists only in our imaginations. If you want to win, use the tools or you put yourself at disadvantage to those who do.

I don't agree with this idea. It's wrong to use this add on and simply because it exists shouldn't force other players to use it as well. ZOS should ban everyone that uses this add on.

Bam_Bam

If this add-on was removed, a lot more people wll be getting one-shot ganked.

then the real tears and forum screaming will begin....

Morgul667

Baranthus wrote: »

If this add-on was removed, a lot more people wll be getting one-shot ganked.

then the real tears and forum screaming will begin....

Worst cheating reason ever

On another hand i dont get one shot ganked and i dont use this addon

Azurya

why not expand this addon so it detects ALL attacks, from the moment they are channeled aso. ALL ATTACKS, from all classes, abilities, skills, procs and what else. Fair chances for all!

so we get a fully transparent gameplay, which is just fair, and not only restrict NB-class.

Azurya

Baranthus wrote: »

If this add-on was removed, a lot more people wll be getting one-shot ganked.

then the real tears and forum screaming will begin....

one shot ganking died long ago

Skoomah

MIAT add on was used privately by an inner circle for a long time before it was released for the general public. They only released the add on after an even more powerful one was used in its place. There are all sorts of other add ons that help people cheat. There is:

- auto block
- auto heal
- super speed
- macro slice
- auto detect
- Etc

regardless of what is in the TOS, these add ons break the spirit of fairness and are cheating in my opinion.

any other theories on why pvp populations have dropped so dramatically????

Freecry

@Morgul667 API is probably the problem not add-ons

@Skoomah when you accuse you must prove it i don't say it's no possible but.... Give me the name of these add-ons and i try them and get banned or not

Maulkin

Knootewoot wrote: »

People complain about one-shot stamina NB's and then praise this addon.

They forget about us poor dual wield magblades in light armor which are totally rendered useless thanks to this cheat-on.

Uggggh, moan, complain.

Haven't PvP'ed for weeks because it has so many issues.
Cheat-ons
Proc sets
Poisons
Loading screens
no softcaps
stamina rollblades
sorc's, they ruin everything
this
and that
no PvP update for years except torchbugs and deer removed

I gave up I think on PvP. When I log in the servers I want to play on are either empty or have 1 faction poplocked (mostly not my faction) or the server is so packed and is CP and lags like hell.

/cry

I like your list of "issues". The amazing "everything that kills me is an issue" ideology in all it's glory.

It's ok, PvP is not for everyone.

technohic

Azurya wrote: »

why not expand this addon so it detects ALL attacks, from the moment they are channeled aso. ALL ATTACKS, from all classes, abilities, skills, procs and what else. Fair chances for all!

so we get a fully transparent gameplay, which is just fair, and not only restrict NB-class.

It might be pretty close to that but depends on the time from button press to delivery. I know I get alerts for javelin all the time which I was surprised as it seems pretty fast. I mean it is possibly the hardest to react to as far as when seeing it pop up from Miats but I have been able to dodge it.

Morgul667

Freecry wrote: »

@Morgul667 API is probably the problem not add-ons

@Skoomah when you accuse you must prove it i don't say it's no possible but.... Give me the name of these add-ons and i try them and get banned or not

I do agree the problem starts with the API

Still it should be killed

InvitationNotFound

Skoomah wrote: »

MIAT add on was used privately by an inner circle for a long time before it was released for the general public. They only released the add on after an even more powerful one was used in its place. There are all sorts of other add ons that help people cheat. There is:

- auto block
- auto heal
- super speed
- macro slice
- auto detect
- Etc

regardless of what is in the TOS, these add ons break the spirit of fairness and are cheating in my opinion.

any other theories on why pvp populations have dropped so dramatically????

The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.

Without evidence this simply looks like some uneducated claims which are in 99.9% of all cases wrong. You might simply not have understood how things work.

Zbigb4life wrote: »

out51d3r wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

There's no grey area as in 'smart people can do what ZOS prevented them to do to gain advantage'.

Definitely. You are using the tools ZOS provides. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not ZOS should provide those specific tools is a reasonable question, but it's ultimately irrelevant unless they remove them. We all play the game that we have, not the perfect game that exists only in our imaginations. If you want to win, use the tools or you put yourself at disadvantage to those who do.

I don't agree with this idea. It's wrong to use this add on and simply because it exists shouldn't force other players to use it as well. ZOS should ban everyone that uses this add on.

let's look at the following section in the terms of service:

ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.

Excerpt from the Add-On terms:

ZOS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE API AT ANY TIME, OR TO DISABLE AND/OR RESTRICT ANY ADD-ONS AT ANY TIME;

So let's look at the addon again:
It modifies / enhances the game. It is what ZOS wants by providing the API. There aren't any comments about what an addon is allowed to do. The addon was capable of doing way more than that so they took a look at it. They have reviewed it. Then they came up with an API change. That's all they did. So you might have guessed it by now, everything indicates that ZOS is now fine with how the addon works, otherwise they would have implemented further restrictions when they initially reviewed it.

So let's take a look at the whole situation again:
The addon is legit. There is no indication it is abusing bugs or is doing anything ZOS isn't fine with. Calling other players cheaters because they are using this addon is wrong as the definition of cheater doesn't fit. Wanting people to be banned for using it is the same as if you would want people being banned for animation canceling. It's stupid.

Knootewoot

Maulkin wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

People complain about one-shot stamina NB's and then praise this addon.

They forget about us poor dual wield magblades in light armor which are totally rendered useless thanks to this cheat-on.

Uggggh, moan, complain.

Haven't PvP'ed for weeks because it has so many issues.
Cheat-ons
Proc sets
Poisons
Loading screens
no softcaps
stamina rollblades
sorc's, they ruin everything
this
and that
no PvP update for years except torchbugs and deer removed

I gave up I think on PvP. When I log in the servers I want to play on are either empty or have 1 faction poplocked (mostly not my faction) or the server is so packed and is CP and lags like hell.

/cry

I like your list of "issues". The amazing "everything that kills me is an issue" ideology in all it's glory.

It's ok, PvP is not for everyone.

Nothing on this list kills me. Except the loading screens which unexpected appear when near keep.

And I just hate proc sets and poisons and unlimited dodge-rolling away people because you can't kill them as the roll away.

Don't just assume something. PvP in this game has many issues and annoyances after 4 years+

Skoomah

Let's lower the bar even further and let's accept that all the complaints are not cheating and everything is technically ok per the TOS. At the very least, this is NOT FUN.

NOT FUN = STOP PLAYING
STOP PLAYING = DRAMATIC DROP IN PLAYER BASE

Knootewoot

Skoomah wrote: »

Let's lower the bar even further and let's accept that all the complaints are not cheating and everything is technically ok per the TOS. At the very least, this is NOT FUN.

NOT FUN = STOP PLAYING
STOP PLAYING = DRAMATIC DROP IN PLAYER BASE

Well, that is just it. I play as a magicka NB light armor melee. The only advantage I had was I could attack first from stealth. Now everybody knows I am there and can react to every attack I do from stealth. Melee magblade I think is already hard to play.

This, and other issues have made me stop doing PvP for a while now. And it has nothing to do with l2p like some people on this topic claim. This addon just nullifies some classes entire playstyle.

that said, I do understand procsets STAMblades with one shots where annoying. But what can they do besides that. Both mad- and stamblade can never go toe to toe with most other classes.