Severe balancing issue regarding Torug's Pact changes/fixes and Oblivion Damage

BraidasNM

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

Just a heads-up that there is indeed a bug with Torug's Pact that will be fixed in the next PTS patch. You can expect to see the damage output go back down to a more reasonable amount.

ty

Malamar1229

Derra wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It´s gonna hit live and people will realize how stupid it was to dismiss this topic when they have deathrecaps of 2 lightattacks and 3 oblivion proccs.

If it will go live infused with oblivion damage both bars will be the meta for most if not all specs in pvp.

ps. Looking to buy infused spriggan's greatsword. NA, COD to @dorrino ^_^

Same enchatments share cooldown afaik - there´s technically no benefit in running oblivion on both?

@Derra

This is correct. But having it on both guarantees that it will proc each 2 sec:)

So you won't need to go back to say bow bar to get it procced.

Obliv damage is so strong that i run it on live on bow bar on stam nb.

The only reason i run other things was 4 sec cd glitch with infused.

Now when it's going down to 2 sec it just needs to proc:)

For instance disease does ~same damage on non-blocking non-tank target, and significantly less on blocking/shielding etc etc.

I personally prefer an infused weapon/spelldmg glyph on backbar - 500 on demand spelldmg (currently 0.5s effective cooldown none next patch).

Ssshhhusssshhh you

Liofa

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

Just a heads-up that there is indeed a bug with Torug's Pact that will be fixed in the next PTS patch. You can expect to see the damage output go back down to a more reasonable amount.

Hope you change things knowing that Oblivion Damage enchant is the problem , not the Torug's Pact set . You know , you can fix balance without making a perfectly fine PvE Tank set useless . Just reduce the damage of Oblivion enchant for example . Or increase it's cooldown . We tanks have already very low amount of options . Don't take another one away . You already made lots of them useless last patch .

Anyways , I hope you act according to this fact right here .

Thogard

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

Just a heads-up that there is indeed a bug with Torug's Pact that will be fixed in the next PTS patch. You can expect to see the damage output go back down to a more reasonable amount.

NOoOooOoooo

Fix infused or oblivion damage but leave Torug' alone, it didn't do anything

Dorrino

Derra wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It´s gonna hit live and people will realize how stupid it was to dismiss this topic when they have deathrecaps of 2 lightattacks and 3 oblivion proccs.

If it will go live infused with oblivion damage both bars will be the meta for most if not all specs in pvp.

ps. Looking to buy infused spriggan's greatsword. NA, COD to @dorrino ^_^

Same enchatments share cooldown afaik - there´s technically no benefit in running oblivion on both?

@Derra

This is correct. But having it on both guarantees that it will proc each 2 sec:)

So you won't need to go back to say bow bar to get it procced.

Obliv damage is so strong that i run it on live on bow bar on stam nb.

The only reason i run other things was 4 sec cd glitch with infused.

Now when it's going down to 2 sec it just needs to proc:)

For instance disease does ~same damage on non-blocking non-tank target, and significantly less on blocking/shielding etc etc.

I personally prefer an infused weapon/spelldmg glyph on backbar - 500 on demand spelldmg (currently 0.5s effective cooldown none next patch).

@Derra

Currently it's 5 sec duration with 5 sec cd on wpd/spd glyph proc on infused gold weapons. Original cd is 8 sec which gets reduced to 5 sec with infused.

I used exactly that on the back bar until i realized that oblivion dmg gives better result.

GreenSoup2HoT

Anyone have any idea what bug Jessica is referring to? There is no bug that i can recall... other then it just being ridiculously op.

wildbear247

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

Just a heads-up that there is indeed a bug with Torug's Pact that will be fixed in the next PTS patch. You can expect to see the damage output go back down to a more reasonable amount.

You rock! Thanks for the heads-up...the Oblivion damage really was too strong when Torug's Pact was combined with Infused.

heng14rwb17_ESO

What is the bug for torug pact?

Derra

Dorrino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It´s gonna hit live and people will realize how stupid it was to dismiss this topic when they have deathrecaps of 2 lightattacks and 3 oblivion proccs.

If it will go live infused with oblivion damage both bars will be the meta for most if not all specs in pvp.

ps. Looking to buy infused spriggan's greatsword. NA, COD to @dorrino ^_^

Same enchatments share cooldown afaik - there´s technically no benefit in running oblivion on both?

@Derra

This is correct. But having it on both guarantees that it will proc each 2 sec:)

So you won't need to go back to say bow bar to get it procced.

Obliv damage is so strong that i run it on live on bow bar on stam nb.

The only reason i run other things was 4 sec cd glitch with infused.

Now when it's going down to 2 sec it just needs to proc:)

For instance disease does ~same damage on non-blocking non-tank target, and significantly less on blocking/shielding etc etc.

I personally prefer an infused weapon/spelldmg glyph on backbar - 500 on demand spelldmg (currently 0.5s effective cooldown none next patch).

@Derra

Currently it's 5 sec duration with 5 sec cd on wpd/spd glyph proc on infused gold weapons. Original cd is 8 sec which gets reduced to 5 sec with infused.

I used exactly that on the back bar until i realized that oblivion dmg gives better result.

I´m fairly sure it´s 9 or 9.5s cd. I can´t get it to procc instantly if i wait until enchantment runs out (on live currently).
Which should be possible if it was 8s cs.

I´m using weapon/spelldmg bc i get defensive benefits (more heal/ healingward) and can setup soulassault bursts with it - where enchantment dmg is irrelevant.

Maryal

I tested Torug's using an infused bow with the oblivion enchantment.

Live:
In 30 seconds on my test dummy, it (oblivion enchantment) proc'ed 5 times

PTS:
In 30 seconds it proc'ed 7 times.

One thing I did notice on PTS was that my bow tooltip indicated the oblivion damage should be around 3K ... however ... that was not what the actual parse showed, which was around 2,500 oblivion damage. Although armor resistance should have nothing to do with it (oblivion damage), I equipped a set of Spriggins (jewelry, head, shoulders) with my Torug's to see if that made a difference, but nope, made no difference.

So, I don't know what the deal is with Torug's.

Chilly-McFreeze

Thogard wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

Just a heads-up that there is indeed a bug with Torug's Pact that will be fixed in the next PTS patch. You can expect to see the damage output go back down to a more reasonable amount.

NOoOooOoooo

Fix infused or oblivion damage but leave Torug' alone, it didn't do anything

And make infused or the glyph less attractive for anyone not running torugs? While it's obvious that the problem is the combo with torugs?

paulsimonps

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

Just a heads-up that there is indeed a bug with Torug's Pact that will be fixed in the next PTS patch. You can expect to see the damage output go back down to a more reasonable amount.

I am going to assume that the fix is either the fact that the Infused and Torugs 30% increase are not additive, and are instead multiplicative or that the 1s cooldown decrease is on the wrong side of the formula when done with Torug's Pacts cooldown decrease.

GreenSoup2HoT

paulsimonps wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

Just a heads-up that there is indeed a bug with Torug's Pact that will be fixed in the next PTS patch. You can expect to see the damage output go back down to a more reasonable amount.

I am going to assume that the fix is either the fact that the Infused and Torugs 30% increase are not additive, and are instead multiplicative or that the 1s cooldown decrease is on the wrong side of the formula when done with Torug's Pacts cooldown decrease.

Could be both really.

leepalmer95

Oblivion is strong enough on live as it is.

Thats with everyone one using sharp and infused not reducing its cooldown.

Just stop the glyph working with infused/ torugs. If the glyph's damage isn't static like it's mean't to be then it should be reduced by cp/ armor etc..


But honestly 3k on basically every weave, that'll eat anything in pvp, blocking will become useless/ shields anything really.

raasdal

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

Just a heads-up that there is indeed a bug with Torug's Pact that will be fixed in the next PTS patch. You can expect to see the damage output go back down to a more reasonable amount.

NOoOooOoooo

Fix infused or oblivion damage but leave Torug' alone, it didn't do anything

And make infused or the glyph less attractive for anyone not running torugs? While it's obvious that the problem is the combo with torugs?

What? It is in no way "obvious" that Torugs is the problem. If you do the math, it is obvious that the Oblivion enchant is overperforming. With or without Torugs and Infused. Torugs/Infused just inflates that.

Leave Torugs alone.

raasdal

raasdal wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

Just a heads-up that there is indeed a bug with Torug's Pact that will be fixed in the next PTS patch. You can expect to see the damage output go back down to a more reasonable amount.

NOoOooOoooo

Fix infused or oblivion damage but leave Torug' alone, it didn't do anything

And make infused or the glyph less attractive for anyone not running torugs? While it's obvious that the problem is the combo with torugs?

What? It is in no way "obvious" that Torugs is the problem. If you do the math, it is obvious that the Oblivion enchant is overperforming. With or without Torugs and Infused. Torugs/Infused just inflates that.

Leave Torugs alone.

Just to clarify; Oblivion Enchant is balanced for no CP PvE. It will do same damage as other enchants. With CP it performs worse actually. Much worse.

The inbalance comes with the fact that battlespirit is not affecting it, while it should do that. There is no reason it should not. No sets should be nerfed, nor the actual enchant changed. The ONLY problem here, is that the enchant is not affected by battlespirit. End of Story.

DarkGottbeard

Bottom line, if a heal was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it. If a set bonus was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it. If anything else in the game was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it.
Fix oblivion enchant ignoring battle spirit.

arkansas_ESO

DarkGottbeard wrote: »

Bottom line, if a heal was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it. If a set bonus was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it. If anything else in the game was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it.
Fix oblivion enchant ignoring battle spirit.

If any other thing was ignoring Mist Form's damage reduction or armor/spell resists, ZOS would fix that too, but those are both intended behavior for Oblivion damage. It shouldn't be affected by Battle Spirit because it wasn't intended to be affected by Battle Spirit.

DarkGottbeard

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

DarkGottbeard wrote: »

Bottom line, if a heal was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it. If a set bonus was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it. If anything else in the game was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it.
Fix oblivion enchant ignoring battle spirit.

If any other thing was ignoring Mist Form's damage reduction or armor/spell resists, ZOS would fix that too, but those are both intended behavior for Oblivion damage. It shouldn't be affected by Battle Spirit because it wasn't intended to be affected by Battle Spirit.

Mist Form, Shield, Armor, Sr those are all player based mitigation choices. Battle Spirit is a universal rule set for PvP. They aren't even in the same category.

STEVIL

DarkGottbeard wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

DarkGottbeard wrote: »

Bottom line, if a heal was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it. If a set bonus was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it. If anything else in the game was ignoring battle spirit you would fix it.
Fix oblivion enchant ignoring battle spirit.

If any other thing was ignoring Mist Form's damage reduction or armor/spell resists, ZOS would fix that too, but those are both intended behavior for Oblivion damage. It shouldn't be affected by Battle Spirit because it wasn't intended to be affected by Battle Spirit.

Mist Form, Shield, Armor, Sr those are all player based mitigation choices. Battle Spirit is a universal rule set for PvP. They aren't even in the same category.

agree...

if you look at pve, compare the damage between say fire or frost vs OD, you see the OD is basically "pre-mitigated" in that it does significantly less damage but that is a set value in spite of the target defenses. Very clear when racial, class and cp bonuses are kicked in.

but when you move to pvp all the other damage gets a massive cut and that turns the tables letting OD be baseline higher and ignore target defenses.

that is an error, not a feature.

if that is fixed, the performance of OD in PVP falls in line with its performance in PVE.

it is not torugs that is the issue or infused or this set or that set - its the BS/OD failure.

Br1ckst0n

Liofa wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

Just a heads-up that there is indeed a bug with Torug's Pact that will be fixed in the next PTS patch. You can expect to see the damage output go back down to a more reasonable amount.

Hope you change things knowing that Oblivion Damage enchant is the problem , not the Torug's Pact set . You know , you can fix balance without making a perfectly fine PvE Tank set useless . Just reduce the damage of Oblivion enchant for example . Or increase it's cooldown . We tanks have already very low amount of options . Don't take another one away . You already made lots of them useless last patch .

Anyways , I hope you act according to this fact right here .

I dont think they see that set as an option for tanks. Just look at every tanking set they introduce. Always something that makes you necessarily tanky and gives 0 group utility.

Waffennacht

If the Oblivion glyph gets reduced by battlespirit, then it becomes a completely worthless item. It's not even viable for PvE now, with it only dealing approximately 1-2k DMG at most it's a stupid choice

Feanor

@Waffennacht

It does ignore every form of mitigation. So there should be a trade off. Which could be a higher CD, a lesser proc chance or reduced damage. The latter sure is easiest to implement.

Kram8ion

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Kram8ion wrote: »

Cool might dust off my old elite dominion bow with 4200 unresistable dmg even though it's vr14
Each patch means change

Can you get a screenshot of it? It is from eagle eye set? Never heard of it or enchants that are stronger then standard enchants. You sure its not prismatic?

it's tool tip says unressistable dmg sorry can't get screenshots atm it is part of three piece though

Jaxaxo

Values on these items were adjusted, so propably no chance to get that 4,2k oblivion dmg.

raasdal

Waffennacht wrote: »

If the Oblivion glyph gets reduced by battlespirit, then it becomes a completely worthless item. It's not even viable for PvE now, with it only dealing approximately 1-2k DMG at most it's a stupid choice

@Waffennacht

But that is not entirely true. And if we are talking about balance and diversity, Oblivion Enchant should perform WORSE than anything else, against anyone not with high mitigation, block, shields etc., but perform BETTER than anything WITH those mitigations. Currently it just performs better than anything else, no matter what.

Currently, OB is 1900.
Fire is 2500. Battlespirit makes it 1250. Resistances on a medium armor target (25%) brings it down to app. 950. This can then be amplified by Passives etc, and will most often be at 1000-1100 base damage. Which can crit.

So giving OB Battlespirit, would put it down to 950. Making it equal / sligtly worse compared to a Fire enchant, if you are NOT penetrating any armor. If you have ANY penetration, the Fire Enchant will do more damage. AND it will be a ble to crit. Thus, Fire Enchant would be preferred.

BUT, if the target is a Heavy Armor target, holding down Block, Oblivion Damage will still be the best choice. We dont need the math to know that. On a blocking target, your Fire enchant will do next to nothing (like 200 damage). Oblivion would still do 950.

So.. Applying Battlespirit to the Oblivion Enchant will not destroy it in anyway. It will put it exactly where it needs to be. A specialty choice for dealing only with high-mitigation targets.

Strider_Roshin

It may not be a terrible idea to increase the GCD of the Oblivion enchant to 10 seconds. What way Infused reduces it to 5 seconds. I can see an issue with this enchant proc'ing every 2.5 seconds.

Don't reduce it with battle spirit though. That would definitely kill that enchant.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

paulsimonps wrote: »

I am going to assume that the fix is either the fact that the Infused and Torugs 30% increase are not additive, and are instead multiplicative or that the 1s cooldown decrease is on the wrong side of the formula when done with Torug's Pacts cooldown decrease.

You have the right idea. This is the patch note:

Torug’s Pact: This item set now reduces the cooldown of your weapon enchantment by 30% instead of one second, and is multiplicative with the cooldown reduction of the Infused trait.

GreenSoup2HoT

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I am going to assume that the fix is either the fact that the Infused and Torugs 30% increase are not additive, and are instead multiplicative or that the 1s cooldown decrease is on the wrong side of the formula when done with Torug's Pacts cooldown decrease.

You have the right idea. This is the patch note:

Torug’s Pact: This item set now reduces the cooldown of your weapon enchantment by 30% instead of one second, and is multiplicative with the cooldown reduction of the Infused trait.

4 second cooldown. 50% infused. 30% torugs. So cooldow is now 1.4 seconds correct?

Gilliamtherogue

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I am going to assume that the fix is either the fact that the Infused and Torugs 30% increase are not additive, and are instead multiplicative or that the 1s cooldown decrease is on the wrong side of the formula when done with Torug's Pacts cooldown decrease.

You have the right idea. This is the patch note:

Torug’s Pact: This item set now reduces the cooldown of your weapon enchantment by 30% instead of one second, and is multiplicative with the cooldown reduction of the Infused trait.

4 second cooldown. 50% infused. 30% torugs. So cooldow is now 1.4 seconds correct?

If the enchant deals damage instead of augmenting stats, then yes. Augment enchants such as Weakener, Beserker, and Crusher will have a 3.5 second cooldown (10s base) after the change.