Severe balancing issue regarding Torug's Pact changes/fixes and Oblivion Damage

Yuke

I dont think that i have to explain this, no?

3000 unresistable Damage every 1.2 seconds. Three people spamming light attacks can build up 10-12k DPS on a PvP target.

This has to be changed. The whole Oblivion Damage thing is worse than the introduction of Proc Sets.

Berenhir

Looks promising.

Yuke

promising?

Yuke

@ZOS_GinaBruno

@ZOS_KaiSchober

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

@ZOS_GaryA

@ZOS_TristanK

Sigtric

Here for the lulz

inb4 torugs nerf

Avran_Sylt

Could ya post an image of you incorporating a weaved ability? I think you'll be able to have the Oblivion damage enchant proc with each weave. Further exacerbating the issue.

GreenSoup2HoT

Why not keep it? That way magicka classes can kill each other through shields. The ones who actually use HoT's will win. I see no issue with this setup except for the greedy sorcs who refuse to slot HoT's.

Yuke

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Could ya post an image of you incorporating a weaved ability? I think you'll be able to have the Oblivion damage enchant proc with each weave. Further exacerbating the issue.

I live in europe and gotta sleep now. Anyone without a 300 ping has to test the glyph cooldown with global cooldown abilities. I had a variance due to ping between 1.2 and 2.1 seconds...

Yuke

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Why not keep it? That way magicka classes can kill each other through shields. The ones who actually use HoT's will win. I see no issue with this setup except for the greedy sorcs who refuse to slot HoT's.

thats bs man...i play a hot class as a stamwarden and have 1700 Heal per Second (with proof in various different pvp videos i released last week) ... you cant outheal this, its unresistable...

Ankael07

in a 1 on 1 situation this set up doesnt seem so bad since its easy to counter it with a HoT spell and just dash out higher damage than 3k per 1.2 sec. But in BGs a pre-assambled team of tanks will definitely use this and 2 shot people in 3 seconds.

GreenSoup2HoT

Yuke wrote: »

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GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Why not keep it? That way magicka classes can kill each other through shields. The ones who actually use HoT's will win. I see no issue with this setup except for the greedy sorcs who refuse to slot HoT's.

thats bs man...i play a hot class as a stamwarden and have 1700 Heal per Second (with proof in various different pvp videos i released last week) ... you cant outheal this, its unresistable...

you can use infused with oblivion as well though. not with toraqs but with duel wield you'll get the same effect since you have 2 enchants with a bit less damage. see how it plays out. refine your build to counter it. its a new build. use lingering health pots. experiment.

honestly its not all that worse then what it is live. 10% less cd and 10% less damage. oblivion even got a 6% damage nerf. so on live this particular build is already possible and people are not running it.

Teridaxus

For the love of vivec, use the pts feedback for once zos and don't wait until clockwork city to fix this mess.

Avran_Sylt

@GreenSoup2HoT

On live the Oblivion Damage enchantment is bugged with infused, the ICD is not reduced. So the minimum ICD was 3 seconds (with Torugs' Pact). Now that it's fixed,

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Traits

• Infused: Fixed an issue where the Infused Weapon Trait was not reducing the cooldown on Oblivion Damage enchantments.

it can be reduced to about a 1 second ICD. Meaning it can proc more than double the current rate now.

Also, Infused wasn't REDUCED, it was INCREASED by 10% in each aspect (ICD and Damage)

Mondini

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

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Yuke wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Why not keep it? That way magicka classes can kill each other through shields. The ones who actually use HoT's will win. I see no issue with this setup except for the greedy sorcs who refuse to slot HoT's.

thats bs man...i play a hot class as a stamwarden and have 1700 Heal per Second (with proof in various different pvp videos i released last week) ... you cant outheal this, its unresistable...

you can use infused with oblivion as well though. not with toraqs but with duel wield you'll get the same effect since you have 2 enchants with a bit less damage. see how it plays out. refine your build to counter it. its a new build. use lingering health pots. experiment.

honestly its not all that worse then what it is live. 10% less cd and 10% less damage. oblivion even got a 6% damage nerf. so on live this particular build is already possible and people are not running it.

I tried torugs/oblivion on live and with the current cooldown it was not a problem. People could out heal it easily with the cooldown. On live I ended up switching between shock damage and a restore magicka enchant. both were resistible and reduced from battle spirit and were fairly balanced. I was looking forward to next patch with some proc nerfs. but this is mad.

GreenSoup2HoT

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@GreenSoup2HoT

On live the Oblivion Damage enchantment is bugged with infused, the ICD is not reduced. So the minimum ICD was 3 seconds (with Torugs' Pact). Now that it's fixed,

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ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Traits

• Infused: Fixed an issue where the Infused Weapon Trait was not reducing the cooldown on Oblivion Damage enchantments.

it can be reduced to about a 1 second ICD. Meaning it can proc more than double the current rate now.

Also, Infused wasn't REDUCED, it was INCREASED by 10% in each aspect (ICD and Damage)

When i said 10% less cd reduction and damage i was talking about live infused in comparison to the pts model that was increased. I should of reworded it.

Didn't know that infused was broken with oblivion. Sharpend was so BIS that nobody would use infused anyway.


What are you thoughts on Toraqs Infused Oblivion? If you dodge the attack that triggers the enchant, do you dodge the enchant? I know you are testing it.

Avran_Sylt

@GreenSoup2HoT

That was actually addressed with the update:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[Weapon enchantments will no longer proc if the initial attack is dodged.

And Torug's Infused Oblivion IMO needs to be looked at. It allows me to deal more than 10% of a target's hp per second (more if target hp is under 29,960 and less if above) with just one 5 piece set. Since sharpened was nerefed to make it comparable to the other traits, changing to infused isn't as big of a deal. Now you can have tanks proccing Tremorscale and dealing more than 10% of a targets HP all in one ability, and they can do the 10% hp damage each second, or if they weave, every weave. And it can't be blocked or reduced by any type of ability, so it's assured damage, which is the problem, just like pre-PTS vipers.


My Final Statement: Oblivion Damage should be Reduced by Battle Spirit.

Own

pleaseee don't lets this go live

Hutch679

Oh okay, so now my sorcerer can get 1 shot by enchants through wards instead of viper/selene/red mountain cancer.

Iyas

Want to see my char die in mistform to 10 light attacks. Poooof 30k dmg through mistform

Derra

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Why not keep it? That way magicka classes can kill each other through shields. The ones who actually use HoT's will win. I see no issue with this setup except for the greedy sorcs who refuse to slot HoT's.

That´s probably the most ignorant statement i´ve read so far. Sorc is actually the class that will have the least issues with this (and utilize it the most).

You will have 4 people lightattacking you and they will basically be able to kill you within 2s with 2 lightattacks each. Not using any skills.
It´s basically viper on steroids (bc you can´t defend with things like mistform or block)on 1.3s cooldown and on range.
This is the definition of zero counterplay zergempowering mechanic.

It´s not gonna be (that much of) an issue for sorcs because they can spread the dmg between shields and hp making healing it way easier than on any target that only works with their HP pool.

Derra

@Wrobel
You´re changing the viper set this patch because it was 100% unavoidable dmg in melee (mind you it could be mitigated).
With these changes to infused working on oblivion dmg glyphs you´re introducing a magica based version of viper that will deal the same amount of instant dmg viper dealt. On one third of viper´s cd. On ranged attacks and it will not be possible to mitigate that dmg in any form or shape.

That´s worse than viper and the whole procc meta ever was.

Imo a good change could be to make oblivion dmg glyphs only procc against dmg shields and blocking targets.

Faulgor

I don't care about Oblivion damage, but don't you dare touch Torug's. Enchanter builds are niche enough as it is.

Derra

Faulgor wrote: »

I don't care about Oblivion damage, but don't you dare touch Torug's. Enchanter builds are niche enough as it is.

The problem is definetly not torugs pact. It´s the glyph.

actosh

Either nerf oblivion dmg or make it act as a dot.
If it goes live like this.........omfg

@ZOS_RichLambert

GreenSoup2HoT

Derra wrote: »

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GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Why not keep it? That way magicka classes can kill each other through shields. The ones who actually use HoT's will win. I see no issue with this setup except for the greedy sorcs who refuse to slot HoT's.

That´s probably the most ignorant statement i´ve read so far. Sorc is actually the class that will have the least issues with this (and utilize it the most).

You will have 4 people lightattacking you and they will basically be able to kill you within 2s with 2 lightattacks each. Not using any skills.
It´s basically viper on steroids (bc you can´t defend with things like mistform or block)on 1.3s cooldown and on range.
This is the definition of zero counterplay zergempowering mechanic.

It´s not gonna be (that much of) an issue for sorcs because they can spread the dmg between shields and hp making healing it way easier than on any target that only works with their HP pool.

Its like shield breaker though. Sorcs generally have the lowest health pool and use no hots. Oblivion enchants with infused/toraqs would eat them alive through shields which is why i said it would hurt them the most.

You can now dodge the enchant.

Would 2k oblivion procs be fine? It would just mimic a bow player using shield breaker. If you cant heal through that then i dunno what to tell ya.

Toraqs could probably recieve a 10% damage nerf and only apply a 0.5 cd reduction.

Since sharpend got nerfed, players are gonna need oblivion damage to kill tanky targets.

Thogard

There are a few of us already using this build. I was wondering how long it would take to hit the message boards. It's not OP ATM compared to viper, but it's still pretty OP... but after this upcoming patch it would be extremely OP.

I'm sad that this post was made because it's going to ruin my build but I hate to say that after the infused bump, I saw it coming...

HoloYoitsu

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Since sharpend got nerfed, players are gonna need oblivion damage to kill tanky targets.

That's a bit of an overreaction. If you do the math, the sharpened nerf comes out to ~4% dmg loss. Not to mention investing in CP easily makes up the lost pen.

GreenSoup2HoT

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

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GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Since sharpend got nerfed, players are gonna need oblivion damage to kill tanky targets.

That's a bit of an overreaction. If you do the math, the sharpened nerf comes out to ~4% dmg loss. Not to mention investing in CP easily makes up the lost pen.

You forget the nerfs to sets though. Shieldstackers and permablockers have a lot less burst to worry about now.

Biro123

Gonna be nasty.. Combine with shieldbreaker and its around 5k unresistable every 1.2 seconds. That's like 4x viper, un-mitigatable, unshieldable, from range.
Not to mention there's the actual normal damage from the attacks on top of that.

Dunno what to do on sorc to be honest.. won't have enough cooldowns to keep both shields AND heals up.. its not like slapping on some heavy armour and relying on heals instead of shields would help... since without shields, the best source of sorc heals(pet) can't stay alive. Will we need to go hybrid and combine rally with shields?

Imho Oblivion damage needs to be affected by battle spirit.

GreenSoup2HoT

Biro123 wrote: »

Gonna be nasty.. Combine with shieldbreaker and its around 5k unresistable every 1.2 seconds. That's like 4x viper, un-mitigatable, unshieldable, from range.
Not to mention there's the actual normal damage from the attacks on top of that.

Dunno what to do on sorc to be honest.. won't have enough cooldowns to keep both shields AND heals up.. its not like slapping on some heavy armour and relying on heals instead of shields would help... since without shields, the best source of sorc heals(pet) can't stay alive. Will we need to go hybrid and combine rally with shields?

Imho Oblivion damage needs to be affected by battle spirit.

Resto HoT and lingering health pots would help. Also health regen. Oblivion enchant could use a bigger nerf (or torags) but the nerf should not be justified just because players refuse to slot HoTs or spec more into healing.

Derra

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

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Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Why not keep it? That way magicka classes can kill each other through shields. The ones who actually use HoT's will win. I see no issue with this setup except for the greedy sorcs who refuse to slot HoT's.

That´s probably the most ignorant statement i´ve read so far. Sorc is actually the class that will have the least issues with this (and utilize it the most).

You will have 4 people lightattacking you and they will basically be able to kill you within 2s with 2 lightattacks each. Not using any skills.
It´s basically viper on steroids (bc you can´t defend with things like mistform or block)on 1.3s cooldown and on range.
This is the definition of zero counterplay zergempowering mechanic.

It´s not gonna be (that much of) an issue for sorcs because they can spread the dmg between shields and hp making healing it way easier than on any target that only works with their HP pool.

Its like shield breaker though. Sorcs generally have the lowest health pool and use no hots. Oblivion enchants with infused/toraqs would eat them alive through shields which is why i said it would hurt them the most.

You can now dodge the enchant.

Would 2k oblivion procs be fine? It would just mimic a bow player using shield breaker. If you cant heal through that then i dunno what to tell ya.

Toraqs could probably recieve a 10% damage nerf and only apply a 0.5 cd reduction.

Since sharpend got nerfed, players are gonna need oblivion damage to kill tanky targets.

Do you not realize that the problem isn´t about 1v1 but about irresistable unavoidable instant dmg from multiple sources?

I don´t think any competent sorc will give a damn about that tbh. It´s the best thing that can happen when dmg spreads between shield and hp for 1v1 situations.