Dive needs to be dodgeable

leepalmer95

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

By harder you mean you use shalk, crit rush, dawnbreaker and wipe a few people with reverse slice?

Its more of a group class as its passives require you to heal others.

But still

Strider_Roshin

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

By harder you mean you use shalk, crit rush, dawnbreaker and wipe a few people with reverse slice?

Its more of a group class as its passives require you to heal others.

But still

This.

I managed to kill a group of 4 solo within 5 seconds doing this with my Warden. Like I said, it's very easy to 1vX with this class.

Torbschka

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

It has a higher skill cap than most, but it is certainly not weak. Wrecking groups as a Warden is stupid easy with scorch. And the undodgeable dive makes securing kills very easy since no one can play defensively against you. No one in medium armor that is.

Also I'm certainly not a proc blade.

Do u have a magden or know that from others? I can agree, if the enemys dont see me (e.g., fighting an other guy in BGS) and I come in with scorch and target 1 with dive into CS combo, yes - he will die. So may 1 other if he was already low and get hit by sorch.

The thing is, going in on a procblade on 80% target will kill it also, or a templar or whatever. Ifu as a magden are targeted by 2 players I wanna see how u kill them so easily. Ofc , bad players are easy kills, but they are on any class.

Again, the max magicka route is very similar to magicka NB. How many do u see 1vX?

Magicka warden has very bad mobility and are *** by snares, its very hard to land deep fissure if u are focused by 2 players , 80% snared and they are rolling / walking all the timé through u.

Listen, I understand, dive is "cancer" if u already fighting other people, but so are pricblades or 3 sorcs spamming curse. In a 1v1 u dont spam dive as a magden or u instakilled if u dont have ur shield up. OFC, talking about the necro route , there are other ways to build the magden, but they dont have that huge burst.

leepalmer95

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

It has a higher skill cap than most, but it is certainly not weak. Wrecking groups as a Warden is stupid easy with scorch. And the undodgeable dive makes securing kills very easy since no one can play defensively against you. No one in medium armor that is.

Also I'm certainly not a proc blade.

Do u have a magden or know that from others? I can agree, if the enemys dont see me (e.g., fighting an other guy in BGS) and I come in with scorch and target 1 with dive into CS combo, yes - he will die. So may 1 other if he was already low and get hit by sorch.

The thing is, going in on a procblade on 80% target will kill it also, or a templar or whatever. Ifu as a magden are targeted by 2 players I wanna see how u kill them so easily. Ofc , bad players are easy kills, but they are on any class.

Again, the max magicka route is very similar to magicka NB. How many do u see 1vX?

Magicka warden has very bad mobility and are *** by snares, its very hard to land deep fissure if u are focused by 2 players , 80% snared and they are rolling / walking all the timé through u.

Listen, I understand, dive is "cancer" if u already fighting other people, but so are pricblades or 3 sorcs spamming curse. In a 1v1 u dont spam dive as a magden or u instakilled if u dont have ur shield up. OFC, talking about the necro route , there are other ways to build the magden, but they dont have that huge burst.

Well proc blades are OP because of procs, gear... not class skills so they are kind of irrelevant.

You can still get 5 cliff racers off before you need a recast.

The necro route works but people need to play it differently, you have some decent heals and heal over times, use them. Shields should be to allow you to manually heal and not be your main heal.

Torbschka

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

It has a higher skill cap than most, but it is certainly not weak. Wrecking groups as a Warden is stupid easy with scorch. And the undodgeable dive makes securing kills very easy since no one can play defensively against you. No one in medium armor that is.

Also I'm certainly not a proc blade.

Do u have a magden or know that from others? I can agree, if the enemys dont see me (e.g., fighting an other guy in BGS) and I come in with scorch and target 1 with dive into CS combo, yes - he will die. So may 1 other if he was already low and get hit by sorch.

The thing is, going in on a procblade on 80% target will kill it also, or a templar or whatever. Ifu as a magden are targeted by 2 players I wanna see how u kill them so easily. Ofc , bad players are easy kills, but they are on any class.

Again, the max magicka route is very similar to magicka NB. How many do u see 1vX?

Magicka warden has very bad mobility and are *** by snares, its very hard to land deep fissure if u are focused by 2 players , 80% snared and they are rolling / walking all the timé through u.

Listen, I understand, dive is "cancer" if u already fighting other people, but so are pricblades or 3 sorcs spamming curse. In a 1v1 u dont spam dive as a magden or u instakilled if u dont have ur shield up. OFC, talking about the necro route , there are other ways to build the magden, but they dont have that huge burst.

Well proc blades are OP because of procs, gear... not class skills so they are kind of irrelevant.

You can still get 5 cliff racers off before you need a recast.

The necro route works but people need to play it differently, you have some decent heals and heal over times, use them. Shields should be to allow you to manually heal and not be your main heal.

Which decent hot do I have for solo play ? Vines isnt a hot, nor is lotus. Also, u miss the point, dive isnt op in my opinion and has nothing to do with proc sets. I dont know why u bring that up as I made the assumption "because x is op, y has to be op either " - its not.

And u dont get 5 cliff racers off before u need a recast, again, u dont play magden, do u? All those assumptions..

From my petspective in a) terms of difficulty and b) ability to successfully 1vX the warden is miles behind most other classes.

The warden do shine in a group and hes not targeted, while targeted its very hard to pull that off (outnumbered).

Ppl are acting like magden has aoe hard CC and bombing everything away. Deep fissure is a single target skillshot stun.

Torbschka

Torbschka wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

It has a higher skill cap than most, but it is certainly not weak. Wrecking groups as a Warden is stupid easy with scorch. And the undodgeable dive makes securing kills very easy since no one can play defensively against you. No one in medium armor that is.

Also I'm certainly not a proc blade.

Do u have a magden or know that from others? I can agree, if the enemys dont see me (e.g., fighting an other guy in BGS) and I come in with scorch and target 1 with dive into CS combo, yes - he will die. So may 1 other if he was already low and get hit by sorch.

The thing is, going in on a procblade on 80% target will kill it also, or a templar or whatever. Ifu as a magden are targeted by 2 players I wanna see how u kill them so easily. Ofc , bad players are easy kills, but they are on any class.

Again, the max magicka route is very similar to magicka NB. How many do u see 1vX?

Magicka warden has very bad mobility and are *** by snares, its very hard to land deep fissure if u are focused by 2 players , 80% snared and they are rolling / walking all the timé through u.

Listen, I understand, dive is "cancer" if u already fighting other people, but so are pricblades or 3 sorcs spamming curse. In a 1v1 u dont spam dive as a magden or u instakilled if u dont have ur shield up. OFC, talking about the necro route , there are other ways to build the magden, but they dont have that huge burst.

Well proc blades are OP because of procs, gear... not class skills so they are kind of irrelevant.

You can still get 5 cliff racers off before you need a recast.

The necro route works but people need to play it differently, you have some decent heals and heal over times, use them. Shields should be to allow you to manually heal and not be your main heal.

Which decent hot do I have for solo play ? Vines isnt a hot, nor is lotus. Also, u miss the point, dive isnt op in my opinion and has nothing to do with proc sets. I dont know why u bring that up as I made the assumption "because x is op, y has to be op either " - its not.

And u dont get 5 cliff racers off before u need a recast, again, u dont play magden, do u? All those assumptions..

From my petspective in a) terms of difficulty and b) ability to successfully 1vX the warden is miles behind most other classes.

The warden do shine in a group and hes not targeted, while targeted its very hard to pull that off (outnumbered).

Ppl are acting like magden has aoe hard CC and bombing everything away. Deep fissure is a single target skillshot stun with aoe dmg

Torbschka

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

By harder you mean you use shalk, crit rush, dawnbreaker and wipe a few people with reverse slice?

Its more of a group class as its passives require you to heal others.

But still

I only talked about the magden perspective. For stamden u guys might be correct, for magden ur not.

TheBonesXXX

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not really hard to drop a warden if yo

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

...drops mic

Nice try but wrath is dodgeable. It also won't hit you in the back for 5-7k if the EXECUTE won't proc. Pushing an execute mechanic as an excuse for a spam is just bad argumentation since you should know why executes exist and how they work.

aToken wrote: »

I greeing here the skill is already srtpong enough that it can be spammed and low cost. The fact that it cannot be dodged is too much. Warden is already overpowered with passive major mending. NO need to give it unavoidable damage as well.

If people don't know how to beat a Warden all they need to do is understand how shalks works, a Warden by itself isn't going to kill anyone.

Don't know why you quoted me there.

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Stigant wrote: »

just going to say this

Dark Flare -> slower travel speed-> dedgeable
Snipe (whichever morph) -> slower travel speed -> dedgeable
Crystal Frags -> slower travel speed -> dedgeable
Sunfire -> about the same travel speed -> dedgeable
Stone Fist -> faster travel speed (or maybe just a bit harder to see itcoming?) -> dedgeable

so the whole reasoning for Cliff Racer skill having to be un-dodgeable is BS in my opinion (not to mention It cannot be reflected either) .. that skill has to be consistent with other projectile skills = Dodgeable & Reflectable

all I see mWardens to do is Dampen Magic (or/and Healing Ward) + Leeching Vines -> spam cliff racer for the win .. thats the "not that good ones" and its still very hard to fight them.

The better ones will rotate Deep Fissure + Cliff racer into Crushing shock (all hits at about the same time) and you cant really avoid any of that except maybe the Deep Fissure unless you want to just stand there and block.

edit: I have tried both Stam and Mag setup on my Warden and honestly in 1v1 or small scale PvP, playing warden is way to easy (almost feels like cheating), thanks to this skill.

Dark Flare has an AoE defile... and you can triple cancel it to kill someone in a zerg.

single target defile.. or increased ranged on bow abilities.. can be triple canceled.

same with crystal frags..

Sunfire is a misnomer in PvP..

Stonefist isn't worth a slot in the DK toolkit.

No.. it doesn't have to be consistent with other abilities, the game already gives people easy to manage mitigation in this game.. stupidly easy..

Wardens are not hard to get around.. CC them at an odd angle.. then half their spells do not work.

Chain AoE diving, triple proc set diving.. invincible tanks.. man theres so much worse stuff in the game then to complain about Cliff Racer..

I think you're missing some points in the skill comparison.
Dark Flare, Snipe, Frags all do have an extra, right. BUT they cost more and, beside a rng procced frag, have a cast time and lower traveling speed.
Stonefist... you say it's too bad to even slot and still, its dodgeable. Also it's rather expensive. Do you see where this is going?
Non of these skills are undodgeable. And I do believe this game's skills should have something like consistency.

If you CC anyone in an odd angle half their spells won't work. This isn't warden-exclusive, nor isn't it like wardens can't cc break. But I get your point, okay.

I strongly disagree about the last paragraph. Hiding one issue behind a load of other issues is a really bad move. Remember any nerf-class x train? Nobody cared about "much worste stuff" like invincible tanks and proc sets then. If something is obviously out of line and overperforming, then it should get worked on. No matter what.

I think my point is that you can CC any class, but they can immediately get back into the DPS game, it doesn't effect them nearly as much. However, you cannot immediately get back into the DPS game with a Warden because once Shalks misses then they have to set up their burst again and against a competent player they could have lined their burst against a Warden two to three times against them.

and you can dodge-roll into shalks and it'll miss.

I think most people over analyze the simplicity of throwing off Warden burst they're missing it. 1 stun, snare, or immobilize and Warden party is over.

as far as Warden en masse group zergs are just a problem, does it really matter who hit you with what, no ones going to dodge everything a zerg throws at them unless they're lucky everyone must LOS.

leepalmer95

Torbschka wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

It has a higher skill cap than most, but it is certainly not weak. Wrecking groups as a Warden is stupid easy with scorch. And the undodgeable dive makes securing kills very easy since no one can play defensively against you. No one in medium armor that is.

Also I'm certainly not a proc blade.

Do u have a magden or know that from others? I can agree, if the enemys dont see me (e.g., fighting an other guy in BGS) and I come in with scorch and target 1 with dive into CS combo, yes - he will die. So may 1 other if he was already low and get hit by sorch.

The thing is, going in on a procblade on 80% target will kill it also, or a templar or whatever. Ifu as a magden are targeted by 2 players I wanna see how u kill them so easily. Ofc , bad players are easy kills, but they are on any class.

Again, the max magicka route is very similar to magicka NB. How many do u see 1vX?

Magicka warden has very bad mobility and are *** by snares, its very hard to land deep fissure if u are focused by 2 players , 80% snared and they are rolling / walking all the timé through u.

Listen, I understand, dive is "cancer" if u already fighting other people, but so are pricblades or 3 sorcs spamming curse. In a 1v1 u dont spam dive as a magden or u instakilled if u dont have ur shield up. OFC, talking about the necro route , there are other ways to build the magden, but they dont have that huge burst.

Well proc blades are OP because of procs, gear... not class skills so they are kind of irrelevant.

You can still get 5 cliff racers off before you need a recast.

The necro route works but people need to play it differently, you have some decent heals and heal over times, use them. Shields should be to allow you to manually heal and not be your main heal.

Which decent hot do I have for solo play ? Vines isnt a hot, nor is lotus. Also, u miss the point, dive isnt op in my opinion and has nothing to do with proc sets. I dont know why u bring that up as I made the assumption "because x is op, y has to be op either " - its not.

And u dont get 5 cliff racers off before u need a recast, again, u dont play magden, do u? All those assumptions..

From my petspective in a) terms of difficulty and b) ability to successfully 1vX the warden is miles behind most other classes.

The warden do shine in a group and hes not targeted, while targeted its very hard to pull that off (outnumbered).

Ppl are acting like magden has aoe hard CC and bombing everything away. Deep fissure is a single target skillshot stun.

You said procblades, just thought i'd point of procs are OP not nb's. Seen to many stam nb nerf suggestions.

Anyway shields = 6s

1 cliff racer = 1s per cast, 5x casts = 5s leaving you another to recast. This is assuming your not hit but this thread is mostly on about how strong cliff racer is against medium, usually in a Xv1 situation.

The stun is single target but it's still and Aoe dizzying basically, which will have a higher tooltip because of the sheer amount of damage you can stack. 54k+ magicka, 3k~ spell dmg.

Cliff racer has no counters. This is basically like letting surprise attack go through shields.

TheBonesXXX

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

It has a higher skill cap than most, but it is certainly not weak. Wrecking groups as a Warden is stupid easy with scorch. And the undodgeable dive makes securing kills very easy since no one can play defensively against you. No one in medium armor that is.

Also I'm certainly not a proc blade.

Do u have a magden or know that from others? I can agree, if the enemys dont see me (e.g., fighting an other guy in BGS) and I come in with scorch and target 1 with dive into CS combo, yes - he will die. So may 1 other if he was already low and get hit by sorch.

The thing is, going in on a procblade on 80% target will kill it also, or a templar or whatever. Ifu as a magden are targeted by 2 players I wanna see how u kill them so easily. Ofc , bad players are easy kills, but they are on any class.

Again, the max magicka route is very similar to magicka NB. How many do u see 1vX?

Magicka warden has very bad mobility and are *** by snares, its very hard to land deep fissure if u are focused by 2 players , 80% snared and they are rolling / walking all the timé through u.

Listen, I understand, dive is "cancer" if u already fighting other people, but so are pricblades or 3 sorcs spamming curse. In a 1v1 u dont spam dive as a magden or u instakilled if u dont have ur shield up. OFC, talking about the necro route , there are other ways to build the magden, but they dont have that huge burst.

Well proc blades are OP because of procs, gear... not class skills so they are kind of irrelevant.

You can still get 5 cliff racers off before you need a recast.

The necro route works but people need to play it differently, you have some decent heals and heal over times, use them. Shields should be to allow you to manually heal and not be your main heal.

Which decent hot do I have for solo play ? Vines isnt a hot, nor is lotus. Also, u miss the point, dive isnt op in my opinion and has nothing to do with proc sets. I dont know why u bring that up as I made the assumption "because x is op, y has to be op either " - its not.

And u dont get 5 cliff racers off before u need a recast, again, u dont play magden, do u? All those assumptions..

From my petspective in a) terms of difficulty and b) ability to successfully 1vX the warden is miles behind most other classes.

The warden do shine in a group and hes not targeted, while targeted its very hard to pull that off (outnumbered).

Ppl are acting like magden has aoe hard CC and bombing everything away. Deep fissure is a single target skillshot stun.

You said procblades, just thought i'd point of procs are OP not nb's. Seen to many stam nb nerf suggestions.

Anyway shields = 6s

1 cliff racer = 1s per cast, 5x casts = 5s leaving you another to recast. This is assuming your not hit but this thread is mostly on about how strong cliff racer is against medium, usually in a Xv1 situation.

The stun is single target but it's still and Aoe dizzying basically, which will have a higher tooltip because of the sheer amount of damage you can stack. 54k+ magicka, 3k~ spell dmg.

Cliff racer has no counters. This is basically like letting surprise attack go through shields.

Yes it does.. it has no.. easy counters, but it most certainly has counters.

Invisible potion most certainly counters a cliff racer, which everyone can access. dodge roll + invis pot and most people do not know what to make of it.

LOS is a hard counter to all ranged.

Immobilize certainly makes cliff racer less frequent.

Cliff Racer is the only counter to the *** that is passive RNG defensive abilities such as Evasion. Nothing more annoying than a burst lineup only to get chain dodges which is incredibly frequent in PvP, the problem is Evasion gives the player an illusion of their ability and competency but reality is RNG frequently saves Medium armor players.

React

I will say this. Right now, stamina warden NEEDS cliff racer to be undodgeable. Without that, stam warden will have no reliable method of dealing damage. Sub assault is difficult to aim, and if you get rooted forget about landing it. 2h users have wrecking blow, which is also unreliable when it comes to landing the skill. Take away dodgeable cliff racer, and you're left with a class that relies on rng dodge to ALLOW their damage combo to land.

Let's not forget Dawn breaker is dodgeable to.

Torbschka

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

It has a higher skill cap than most, but it is certainly not weak. Wrecking groups as a Warden is stupid easy with scorch. And the undodgeable dive makes securing kills very easy since no one can play defensively against you. No one in medium armor that is.

Also I'm certainly not a proc blade.

Do u have a magden or know that from others? I can agree, if the enemys dont see me (e.g., fighting an other guy in BGS) and I come in with scorch and target 1 with dive into CS combo, yes - he will die. So may 1 other if he was already low and get hit by sorch.

The thing is, going in on a procblade on 80% target will kill it also, or a templar or whatever. Ifu as a magden are targeted by 2 players I wanna see how u kill them so easily. Ofc , bad players are easy kills, but they are on any class.

Again, the max magicka route is very similar to magicka NB. How many do u see 1vX?

Magicka warden has very bad mobility and are *** by snares, its very hard to land deep fissure if u are focused by 2 players , 80% snared and they are rolling / walking all the timé through u.

Listen, I understand, dive is "cancer" if u already fighting other people, but so are pricblades or 3 sorcs spamming curse. In a 1v1 u dont spam dive as a magden or u instakilled if u dont have ur shield up. OFC, talking about the necro route , there are other ways to build the magden, but they dont have that huge burst.

Well proc blades are OP because of procs, gear... not class skills so they are kind of irrelevant.

You can still get 5 cliff racers off before you need a recast.

The necro route works but people need to play it differently, you have some decent heals and heal over times, use them. Shields should be to allow you to manually heal and not be your main heal.

Which decent hot do I have for solo play ? Vines isnt a hot, nor is lotus. Also, u miss the point, dive isnt op in my opinion and has nothing to do with proc sets. I dont know why u bring that up as I made the assumption "because x is op, y has to be op either " - its not.

And u dont get 5 cliff racers off before u need a recast, again, u dont play magden, do u? All those assumptions..

From my petspective in a) terms of difficulty and b) ability to successfully 1vX the warden is miles behind most other classes.

The warden do shine in a group and hes not targeted, while targeted its very hard to pull that off (outnumbered).

Ppl are acting like magden has aoe hard CC and bombing everything away. Deep fissure is a single target skillshot stun.

You said procblades, just thought i'd point of procs are OP not nb's. Seen to many stam nb nerf suggestions.

Anyway shields = 6s

1 cliff racer = 1s per cast, 5x casts = 5s leaving you another to recast. This is assuming your not hit but this thread is mostly on about how strong cliff racer is against medium, usually in a Xv1 situation.

The stun is single target but it's still and Aoe dizzying basically, which will have a higher tooltip because of the sheer amount of damage you can stack. 54k+ magicka, 3k~ spell dmg.

Cliff racer has no counters. This is basically like letting surprise attack go through shields.

As I said, in Xv1 dive is strong and u need to have good situational awareness to properly los. Regarding the stun, it has 3 sec preparation time, if ur enemy dodge it u need at least 3 sec again, not talking about managing buffa/shields or get cced by yourself. Not to mention ur suggested build would leave u without any sustain, if u dont kill in 10 seconds its over.

If im fighting 2 guys and a NB jumps me its without procset and proper animation cancelling (ambush, ulti, bash, la, SA, bash) close to 10-15k DMG in 1,5 sec. Though in proc sets and calculate again...

My point is, its annoying in Xv1 but so are others (not op), but at least, from my experience as a 1vX player by myself - if u are outnumbered most of the things are annoying and have a way more drastic influence. I Dodge the crystal frag and get feared while rolling - hate it.

Magden 1vX is super hard - thats the reason im against any nerfs yet, hell I would rather see some things buffed. It might be paradise for zergers spamming dive all day in groups, but thats not what Im talking about.

Mojomonkeyman

I mean, Im all for making dive dodgable (counterplay - yay), but some of the comments in here are so far from reality, its disgusting. From both sides.

Reading this thread I wonder how many of you guys complaining actually successfully attempted to play magward solo on a high level (being able to win 1vs2 against talented & experienced players). It's freaking hard to do. On the other hand, stamward is not hard to have success with at all, because the stam morphs synergize very well with burst heavy stam wpn toolsets and procs. It's two entirely different levels of difficulty.

A stamwarden complaining about "needing" undodgable dive to be competitive is as hilarious as OP desperately trying to find reasons to label medium armor as the weakest armor class.

9/10 posts in this thread would be instantly deleted if posted in a well governed pvp forum because their authors are just not on the level to even comment about balance with their biased, uninformed opinon based on anecdotes and flawed play.

Love.

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

Just another typical nerf thread that fails to look at the larger context; made by a poster who has a history of complaining about how ZoS has overnerfed stam.

I dislike uncounterable skills, but the Mag warden has the worst dps in the game, no execute, and its only CC is a telegraphed delayed cast. It needs something or people will just quit the class and roll a procblade or a sorc.

But no, let's nerf it because people get pissed off when they get 1vXed.

Yea at first I thought it needed to be reflected or dodged. But a shield+heal works in 1v1 situations so I changed my stance. Anything in zerg situations is terrible, but not worth a nerf bat.

Cliff racers are fine.

Strider_Roshin

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I mean, Im all for making dive dodgable (counterplay - yay), but some of the comments in here are so far from reality, its disgusting. From both sides.

Reading this thread I wonder how many of you guys complaining actually successfully attempted to play magward solo on a high level (being able to win 1vs2 against talented & experienced players). It's freaking hard to do. On the other hand, stamward is not hard to have success with at all, because the stam morphs synergize very well with burst heavy stam wpn toolsets and procs. It's two entirely different levels of difficulty.

A stamwarden complaining about "needing" undodgable dive to be competitive is as hilarious as OP desperately trying to find reasons to label medium armor as the weakest armor class.

9/10 posts in this thread would be instantly deleted if posted in a well governed pvp forum because their authors are just not on the level to even comment about balance with their biased, uninformed opinon based on anecdotes and flawed play.

Love.

Make dodge rolling as reliable as blocking, and damage shields, and it will be on par with the other armor types. Until it is then it will remain the weakest unless they give medium armor another means of mitigation.

As far as your opinion on 1v 2 talented players; that is difficult regardless of class so your difficulty isn't unique.

Now I haven't played as a magward yet so I can only speak on how easy it is to 1vX as a stam Warden. But from my experience people tend to like to play the victim. For instance I recall everyone saying how weak magDKs are, and how difficult they are to play. After playing one though I didn't think they were weak or difficult to play as at all. Quite the contrary.

Playing as a magDK or a Warden or a non-proc Nightblade will be perceived as being very difficult though if you come from a sorc or Templar background though.

leepalmer95

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I mean, Im all for making dive dodgable (counterplay - yay), but some of the comments in here are so far from reality, its disgusting. From both sides.

Reading this thread I wonder how many of you guys complaining actually successfully attempted to play magward solo on a high level (being able to win 1vs2 against talented & experienced players). It's freaking hard to do. On the other hand, stamward is not hard to have success with at all, because the stam morphs synergize very well with burst heavy stam wpn toolsets and procs. It's two entirely different levels of difficulty.

A stamwarden complaining about "needing" undodgable dive to be competitive is as hilarious as OP desperately trying to find reasons to label medium armor as the weakest armor class.

9/10 posts in this thread would be instantly deleted if posted in a well governed pvp forum because their authors are just not on the level to even comment about balance with their biased, uninformed opinon based on anecdotes and flawed play.

Love.

I'd say medium overall is the weakest.

Theres a lot of things that go through roll as it is, we don't need a super hard hitting undodgable to go with them.

Its also the only armor type whose manage defense e.g. roll has a penalty on it, 33% per roll.

Its also the only armor type whose 'skill' shuffle is used by everyone, heavy builds, magicka builds etc... because of unchained.

React

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I mean, Im all for making dive dodgable (counterplay - yay), but some of the comments in here are so far from reality, its disgusting. From both sides.

Reading this thread I wonder how many of you guys complaining actually successfully attempted to play magward solo on a high level (being able to win 1vs2 against talented & experienced players). It's freaking hard to do. On the other hand, stamward is not hard to have success with at all, because the stam morphs synergize very well with burst heavy stam wpn toolsets and procs. It's two entirely different levels of difficulty.

A stamwarden complaining about "needing" undodgable dive to be competitive is as hilarious as OP desperately trying to find reasons to label medium armor as the weakest armor class.

9/10 posts in this thread would be instantly deleted if posted in a well governed pvp forum because their authors are just not on the level to even comment about balance with their biased, uninformed opinon based on anecdotes and flawed play.

Love.

I'd say medium overall is the weakest.

Theres a lot of things that go through roll as it is, we don't need a super hard hitting undodgable to go with them.

Its also the only armor type whose manage defense e.g. roll has a penalty on it, 33% per roll.

Its also the only armor type whose 'skill' shuffle is used by everyone, heavy builds, magicka builds etc... because of unchained.

Shuffle requires 4 medium to be used now. Correct?

Jawasa

Dodge is the best scaling defence in game plus a senare purge now. What buffs do you guys think it needs?

I'd take dodge over shields any day vs 2 or more players.

TheBonesXXX

People saying stam Warden is easy are playing with 2h or sword/board both which take little competency to use.

Play it on DW/bow, you will not find the same success.

Some skill

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

By harder you mean you use shalk, crit rush, dawnbreaker and wipe a few people with reverse slice?

Its more of a group class as its passives require you to heal others.

But still

It takes minimal experience and competency to kill anyone with 2h, any class paired with 2h can do very well, that doesn't make the class over powered it means 2h is easy.

It takes more competency to kill anything in the sword and board line..

then finally duel wield is the hardest out of the melee skill line by miles..

2h carries 90% of the stam oriented players in this game, Cliff Racer isn't OP, its a magnifying glass to the glaring obvious problem that most of the people in this game have the illusion that they play a difficult build when in reality 2h and evasion take out a huge chunk of difficulty.

Maybe other mechanics need to be tuned before we talk about nerfing more skills.

Waffennacht

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

People saying stam Warden is easy are playing with 2h or sword/board both which take little competency to use.

Play it on DW/bow, you will not find the same success.

Some skill

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

By harder you mean you use shalk, crit rush, dawnbreaker and wipe a few people with reverse slice?

Its more of a group class as its passives require you to heal others.

But still

It takes minimal experience and competency to kill anyone with 2h, any class paired with 2h can do very well, that doesn't make the class over powered it means 2h is easy.

It takes more competency to kill anything in the sword and board line..

then finally duel wield is the hardest out of the melee skill line by miles..

2h carries 90% of the stam oriented players in this game, Cliff Racer isn't OP, its a magnifying glass to the glaring obvious problem that most of the people in this game have the illusion that they play a difficult build when in reality 2h and evasion take out a huge chunk of difficulty.

Maybe other mechanics need to be tuned before we talk about nerfing more skills.

I'm still waiting on those 1vX clips from streamers Without the use of 2h, or stam

br0steen

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

It has a higher skill cap than most, but it is certainly not weak. Wrecking groups as a Warden is stupid easy with scorch. And the undodgeable dive makes securing kills very easy since no one can play defensively against you. No one in medium armor that is.

Also I'm certainly not a proc blade.

Do u have a magden or know that from others? I can agree, if the enemys dont see me (e.g., fighting an other guy in BGS) and I come in with scorch and target 1 with dive into CS combo, yes - he will die. So may 1 other if he was already low and get hit by sorch.

The thing is, going in on a procblade on 80% target will kill it also, or a templar or whatever. Ifu as a magden are targeted by 2 players I wanna see how u kill them so easily. Ofc , bad players are easy kills, but they are on any class.

Again, the max magicka route is very similar to magicka NB. How many do u see 1vX?

Magicka warden has very bad mobility and are *** by snares, its very hard to land deep fissure if u are focused by 2 players , 80% snared and they are rolling / walking all the timé through u.

Listen, I understand, dive is "cancer" if u already fighting other people, but so are pricblades or 3 sorcs spamming curse. In a 1v1 u dont spam dive as a magden or u instakilled if u dont have ur shield up. OFC, talking about the necro route , there are other ways to build the magden, but they dont have that huge burst.

Well proc blades are OP because of procs, gear... not class skills so they are kind of irrelevant.

You can still get 5 cliff racers off before you need a recast.

The necro route works but people need to play it differently, you have some decent heals and heal over times, use them. Shields should be to allow you to manually heal and not be your main heal.

Which decent hot do I have for solo play ? Vines isnt a hot, nor is lotus. Also, u miss the point, dive isnt op in my opinion and has nothing to do with proc sets. I dont know why u bring that up as I made the assumption "because x is op, y has to be op either " - its not.

And u dont get 5 cliff racers off before u need a recast, again, u dont play magden, do u? All those assumptions..

From my petspective in a) terms of difficulty and b) ability to successfully 1vX the warden is miles behind most other classes.

The warden do shine in a group and hes not targeted, while targeted its very hard to pull that off (outnumbered).

Ppl are acting like magden has aoe hard CC and bombing everything away. Deep fissure is a single target skillshot stun.

You said procblades, just thought i'd point of procs are OP not nb's. Seen to many stam nb nerf suggestions.

Anyway shields = 6s

1 cliff racer = 1s per cast, 5x casts = 5s leaving you another to recast. This is assuming your not hit but this thread is mostly on about how strong cliff racer is against medium, usually in a Xv1 situation.

The stun is single target but it's still and Aoe dizzying basically, which will have a higher tooltip because of the sheer amount of damage you can stack. 54k+ magicka, 3k~ spell dmg.

Cliff racer has no counters. This is basically like letting surprise attack go through shields.

What build gives you 54k magicka woth 3k spell damage, I'd like to use that.

TheBonesXXX

Waffennacht wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

People saying stam Warden is easy are playing with 2h or sword/board both which take little competency to use.

Play it on DW/bow, you will not find the same success.

Some skill

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

By harder you mean you use shalk, crit rush, dawnbreaker and wipe a few people with reverse slice?

Its more of a group class as its passives require you to heal others.

But still

It takes minimal experience and competency to kill anyone with 2h, any class paired with 2h can do very well, that doesn't make the class over powered it means 2h is easy.

It takes more competency to kill anything in the sword and board line..

then finally duel wield is the hardest out of the melee skill line by miles..

2h carries 90% of the stam oriented players in this game, Cliff Racer isn't OP, its a magnifying glass to the glaring obvious problem that most of the people in this game have the illusion that they play a difficult build when in reality 2h and evasion take out a huge chunk of difficulty.

Maybe other mechanics need to be tuned before we talk about nerfing more skills.

I'm still waiting on those 1vX clips from streamers Without the use of 2h, or stam

Im waitin' too... No evade and no 2h.

Tonturri

As long as the Cliff/Dive nerf comes with buffs in other areas. These are just my personal wishes >.>

1) Buff durations. Pleeeeeaaase. 10 sec leeching vines and Bird of Prey is killing me
2) Cliff Racer morph effect. With the many gap closers and snares floating around, the morph effect feels really out of place/only useful when I'm fighting a scrub who isn't paying much attention to me and is about to die anyway. Maybe add an on-hit DoT? More DPS, same burst - and a little pressure if someone gap closest and we have to stop casting it in order to do other things. Make it stop hitting so much harder at range than it does at melee.
3) 1st Animal Companion passive scales with nothing, Lotus Blossom seems to only scale with %healing, Living Vines seems to have weak scaling. Last one is probably just me though
4) Shave a bit off the cost of Ice Fortress? >.>
5) Corrupting Pollen/other morph...shave a second, maybe two, off the duration?
6) Let me use the last ability in Green Balance with my damn bear ult. Geez. Also make the bear less stupid. Make the ability cast/teleport me about faster.
7) Something something our Animal Companions DoT, Fetcher Infection.
8) Last ability in Winter's Embrace (I use Frozen Device) - make it activate a little faster/can't dodge roll through it if you currently can.

grim_tactics

If all you can do is block this crap - don't even try to turn and run away. Just accept the fact you're gonna die from the Warden or his friends if you're out numbered and can't LoS.

Sharee

grim_tactics wrote: »

If all you can do is block this crap - don't even try to turn and run away. Just accept the fact you're gonna die from the Warden or his friends if you're out numbered and can't LoS.

Kinda like that warden would die if you were the one with friends outnumbering him, eh?

grim_tactics

Sharee wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

If all you can do is block this crap - don't even try to turn and run away. Just accept the fact you're gonna die from the Warden or his friends if you're out numbered and can't LoS.

Kinda like that warden would die if you were the one with friends outnumbering him, eh?

His sustain is high enough to get away and Wardens can be tanky as hell too. Kind of like a Sorc that shield stacks.

I'm saying - an ability that can only be blocked that does that much damage has no place in the game because it's spammable. If they're going to allow this - then go ahead and make it where CFrags can't be dodged and Curse can stack. Bet all of you would lose your minds if that was the case.

They need to fix this on Wardens and make it dodgable. You cant argue that it shouldn't be.

Waffennacht

grim_tactics wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

If all you can do is block this crap - don't even try to turn and run away. Just accept the fact you're gonna die from the Warden or his friends if you're out numbered and can't LoS.

Kinda like that warden would die if you were the one with friends outnumbering him, eh?

His sustain is high enough to get away and Wardens can be tanky as hell too. Kind of like a Sorc that shield stacks.

I'm saying - an ability that can only be blocked that does that much damage has no place in the game because it's spammable. If they're going to allow this - then go ahead and make it where CFrags can't be dodged and Curse can stack. Bet all of you would lose your minds if that was the case.

They need to fix this on Wardens and make it dodgable. You cant argue that it shouldn't be.

Make it truly instant and with better AC then you can make it dodgeable

leepalmer95

br0steen wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Dunno dude, I honestly didn't had so much problem against warden unless they're coming from behind in bg, playng as warden, as heavy mag dk and medium stamplar (ok I may have pirate skeleton on stamplar :P) just don't stay in their face to take deep fissure and you're fine. Honestly I had more problem on stam blade viper selene or sorc in heavy with tremor and viper..

Problem is not warden. The class is so bad soloing that any warden throwing cliff racer is no problem. The problem is more than 2 wardens spamming it

The class is so weak and ill done that they need to form groups to be somewhat viable PvP. In that case, a projectile with dmg increase based on distance is overkill. Nevertheless the class is played and has a succesful rate just because one skll. Does that mean the class is good? No. Is just a skill overperforming.

I wouldn't have any problem with that skill if none of the changes done last patch have taken effect. The class was more than OK if included in Homestead with Homestead rules, but nerfing block and constitution while incerasing dmg through MoA star has created unbalance that favors the class introduced in Morrowind (which in turn you have to buy to use it) How is that remotely close to the concept of "fair play"? (oxymoron intended)

Ugh this class is incredibly powerful, and very easy to 1vX with. The class needs no help by having an undodgeable attack.

Maybe you find the class to be weak because you're weak at playing it

Its not, stop that trash talking. I play it exusively since morrowind and its way way harder than any other class for 1vX except magicka NB.

U procblades seems really pissed lol

It has a higher skill cap than most, but it is certainly not weak. Wrecking groups as a Warden is stupid easy with scorch. And the undodgeable dive makes securing kills very easy since no one can play defensively against you. No one in medium armor that is.

Also I'm certainly not a proc blade.

Do u have a magden or know that from others? I can agree, if the enemys dont see me (e.g., fighting an other guy in BGS) and I come in with scorch and target 1 with dive into CS combo, yes - he will die. So may 1 other if he was already low and get hit by sorch.

The thing is, going in on a procblade on 80% target will kill it also, or a templar or whatever. Ifu as a magden are targeted by 2 players I wanna see how u kill them so easily. Ofc , bad players are easy kills, but they are on any class.

Again, the max magicka route is very similar to magicka NB. How many do u see 1vX?

Magicka warden has very bad mobility and are *** by snares, its very hard to land deep fissure if u are focused by 2 players , 80% snared and they are rolling / walking all the timé through u.

Listen, I understand, dive is "cancer" if u already fighting other people, but so are pricblades or 3 sorcs spamming curse. In a 1v1 u dont spam dive as a magden or u instakilled if u dont have ur shield up. OFC, talking about the necro route , there are other ways to build the magden, but they dont have that huge burst.

Well proc blades are OP because of procs, gear... not class skills so they are kind of irrelevant.

You can still get 5 cliff racers off before you need a recast.

The necro route works but people need to play it differently, you have some decent heals and heal over times, use them. Shields should be to allow you to manually heal and not be your main heal.

Which decent hot do I have for solo play ? Vines isnt a hot, nor is lotus. Also, u miss the point, dive isnt op in my opinion and has nothing to do with proc sets. I dont know why u bring that up as I made the assumption "because x is op, y has to be op either " - its not.

And u dont get 5 cliff racers off before u need a recast, again, u dont play magden, do u? All those assumptions..

From my petspective in a) terms of difficulty and b) ability to successfully 1vX the warden is miles behind most other classes.

The warden do shine in a group and hes not targeted, while targeted its very hard to pull that off (outnumbered).

Ppl are acting like magden has aoe hard CC and bombing everything away. Deep fissure is a single target skillshot stun.

You said procblades, just thought i'd point of procs are OP not nb's. Seen to many stam nb nerf suggestions.

Anyway shields = 6s

1 cliff racer = 1s per cast, 5x casts = 5s leaving you another to recast. This is assuming your not hit but this thread is mostly on about how strong cliff racer is against medium, usually in a Xv1 situation.

The stun is single target but it's still and Aoe dizzying basically, which will have a higher tooltip because of the sheer amount of damage you can stack. 54k+ magicka, 3k~ spell dmg.

Cliff racer has no counters. This is basically like letting surprise attack go through shields.

What build gives you 54k magicka woth 3k spell damage, I'd like to use that.

Necro build with sleet storm + undaunted 9 is a start.

Could go either lich or wizards riposte + max magicka one piece.

Witchmothers, atro, high elf + 1-2 regen.

Sharee

grim_tactics wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

If all you can do is block this crap - don't even try to turn and run away. Just accept the fact you're gonna die from the Warden or his friends if you're out numbered and can't LoS.

Kinda like that warden would die if you were the one with friends outnumbering him, eh?

His sustain is high enough to get away and Wardens can be tanky as hell too. Kind of like a Sorc that shield stacks.

I'm saying - an ability that can only be blocked that does that much damage has no place in the game because it's spammable. If they're going to allow this - then go ahead and make it where CFrags can't be dodged and Curse can stack. Bet all of you would lose your minds if that was the case.

They need to fix this on Wardens and make it dodgable. You cant argue that it shouldn't be.

Yes i can. Dodge is way too powerful a defense, and in sore need of something that makes it less foolproof.

That's exactly the reason why ZOS intentionally made dive undodgeable in the firstplace. So there is nothing to "fix".

By the way, frags can be made undodgeable as soon as they lose the knockdown.

C0ndor

grim_tactics wrote: »

If all you can do is block this crap - don't even try to turn and run away. Just accept the fact you're gonna die from the Warden or his friends if you're out numbered and can't LoS.

Dafaq dude you were afk? He did 5 sec of cliff racer spam means that you did nothing to defend yourself, a nb can do that damage in 2 seconds c'mon maaaan