Dive needs to be dodgeable

Rahotu

I disagree,dodge needs to be diveable....wait wut?

Strider_Roshin

Rahotu wrote: »

I disagree,dodge needs to be diveable....wait wut?

Dolphin dive? Bouncing Betty?!

What year is it?!

Smmokkee

There's enough magdens out there now that it's kind of become a problem. Lol. I'm super squishy and my main form of defense is to dodge. If I'm not dodging I'm dead. All this ability has done is made zergs stronger.

It's obvious zos wants me to play a msorc or heavy armor goon.

My solo playstyle has been *** on pretty hard and by some cheese lord spamming dive as hard as his greasy fingers will let him.

I'd rather have to get away from 5 eots then deal with having to escape from a group with a single dive spammer. The fact that it is undodgeable is undefendable.

Glamdring

Yeah theese birds are everywhere now, ecpecially when the word has spread that this skill is DA ***. Theese noskilled pugs running in the sanctuary of their group spamming this totally unavoidable skill, that goes through cloak, los, everything. funny thing they think they can kill anyone alone, they get rekt before they even knew what happened. Anyway this skill needs both tweaks and buggfixes but since ZoS does everything to ease the game for the casual pugplayer im sceptical anything will be done about this.

Sharee

[nvm]

Krayzie

Sharee wrote: »

[nvm]

kk

Takes-No-Prisoner

grim_tactics wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

If all you can do is block this crap - don't even try to turn and run away. Just accept the fact you're gonna die from the Warden or his friends if you're out numbered and can't LoS.

Might want to censor out his name to avoid getting spanked for 'naming and shaming'

Ahh twinGB that is what he has been up to. That rascal!

Not shaming. I never tell anyone how to play the game and obviously I lost this encounter and wasn't blaming the person or belittling them. I just want it to be dodgeable but that's not up to me.

I get what you are saying, but not everyone here is going to read between the lines like me. But you already saw what happened. Might want to keep that in mind next time you post a death recap screenshot.

Metemsycosis

Glamdring wrote: »

I can tell not many played a medium armour stam nb. Block are used during fight against 1-3 enemys. When u trying to get away from multiple enemys, Los and repositioning using block just make u live 2 secs more. And this undodgeable OP newbie skill hits u for 4-5k and u cant even see it comming.

Speaking of which, there are ways to position oneself to be untargetable. Also try zerg surfing ( pretty good counter to being xv1, get by with a lol help from friends)

Arkangeloski

C0ndor wrote: »

Nb can counter with cloack, if u do that during skill travel, it will not hit you nor put you out of stealth. Btw best defence on a warden is put melee pressure, he will not spam cliff racer, he hasn't the sorc's shield and have a worst burst (and curse can't be dodged too btw).

U cant dodge curse yes, but clense you can (efficient purge) so it does have a counter. Very bad comparison tho...

Arkangeloski

dominguero96 wrote: »

It's funny to see medium armor users( who doesnt have any shields, that is how Zos want it) complainning about a skill when they use proc sets which are very similar. What would a warden without a undodgeable skill do against a stam dodger that only with one skill ( with animation cancealing) + heaviattack gets like enchant + viper + tremor instakill you? Try to see things from the others point of view, Warden dont have many dps skills and if you mess up with one of it, well the class will be more useless than it is right now.

Deja las drogas

apostate9

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

@Strider_Roshin

How much was Dive hitting you for? I know you don't really play CP, but were you in BG? non-CP or CP campaign?

Dive on CP hits for wet noodles in my Hardend Ward. So I am not seeing what you are seeing, yet. I do plan on dusting off my StamBlade tonight.

5200 in non-CP with my OP medium armor mitigation *heavy sarcasm*

Against a high damage opponent like the one referenced I typically die in 5 seconds because they hit you back to back, and since their range surpasses that of a gap closer the only thing I can do is die.

Or...you know. Block. Or cloak. Or shoot a ranged attack. Maybe stealth and get within gap-closing range, or even possi-- wait.

Nevermind.

apostate9

Yoohoo4411 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing worse theen trying to get away and line of sight 6 people only to get hit for 5k uncounterable attacks.

What do you do? Do you block in order to not get melted? But then the groups kills you? Do you roll and struggle to outheal all the other dmg + 5k a second cliff racer?

Are you seriously complaining about not being able to 1vX?

Yes. Cliff Racer OP, because these guys can't Leroy Jenkins into a battalion of Wardens with a medium armor gankblade and win. It's really intolerable. He got hit with like, 20 ranged attacks in the face and *died*. Can you believe it? The indignity of it all. Dying from going gonzo against 10 wardens solo and not winning. Pfft. Nerf Warden quick, so we can go back to whinging about mass poison injects or crystal frags, or whatever "OP" skill always seems to be getting between the potato and his entitlement to victory in PvP.

C0ndor

Arkangeloski wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Nb can counter with cloack, if u do that during skill travel, it will not hit you nor put you out of stealth. Btw best defence on a warden is put melee pressure, he will not spam cliff racer, he hasn't the sorc's shield and have a worst burst (and curse can't be dodged too btw).

U cant dodge curse yes, but clense you can (efficient purge) so it does have a counter. Very bad comparison tho...

Oh yeah, that super cheap skill that all the sorcs name all the time thinking that the 100% of the players have in their bar! Very bad comparison tho..

Toc de Malsvi

From the following thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/355523/permablocking-and-block-cost-calculations-analysis

Previously, that would mean that you would have to pay, in the order:
1944 * 2 = 3888 stamina to block per second
1161 * 2 = 2322 stamina to block per second
143 * 2 = 286 stamina to block per second

With the changes, it now costs:
1944 * 4 = 7776 stamina to block per second
1161 * 4 = 4644 stamina to block per second
143 * 4 = 572 stamina to block per second

Using potions and the Constitution passive from the heavy armor skill line is enough to make this last build block literally all attacks, without outside help required. Adding in abilities and passives make it even easier - overkill even, it has become a lot harder for the two other specs. Blocking for only 1 second without a specialized block build will burn your entire stamina pool.

Blocking on a medium armor build is suicide, besides being ineffective. Dive being undodgeable is unbalanced against medium armor.

SodanTok

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

From the following thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/355523/permablocking-and-block-cost-calculations-analysis

Previously, that would mean that you would have to pay, in the order:
1944 * 2 = 3888 stamina to block per second
1161 * 2 = 2322 stamina to block per second
143 * 2 = 286 stamina to block per second

With the changes, it now costs:
1944 * 4 = 7776 stamina to block per second
1161 * 4 = 4644 stamina to block per second
143 * 4 = 572 stamina to block per second

Using potions and the Constitution passive from the heavy armor skill line is enough to make this last build block literally all attacks, without outside help required. Adding in abilities and passives make it even easier - overkill even, it has become a lot harder for the two other specs. Blocking for only 1 second without a specialized block build will burn your entire stamina pool.

Blocking on a medium armor build is suicide, besides being ineffective. Dive being undodgeable is unbalanced against medium armor.

No. Blocking being suicide is unbalanced against medium armor. Change dive and you still got soul assault (biggest offender) or other ults and skills that go through dodge (no problem with curse hah)

Toc de Malsvi

SodanTok wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

From the following thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/355523/permablocking-and-block-cost-calculations-analysis

Previously, that would mean that you would have to pay, in the order:
1944 * 2 = 3888 stamina to block per second
1161 * 2 = 2322 stamina to block per second
143 * 2 = 286 stamina to block per second

With the changes, it now costs:
1944 * 4 = 7776 stamina to block per second
1161 * 4 = 4644 stamina to block per second
143 * 4 = 572 stamina to block per second

Using potions and the Constitution passive from the heavy armor skill line is enough to make this last build block literally all attacks, without outside help required. Adding in abilities and passives make it even easier - overkill even, it has become a lot harder for the two other specs. Blocking for only 1 second without a specialized block build will burn your entire stamina pool.

Blocking on a medium armor build is suicide, besides being ineffective. Dive being undodgeable is unbalanced against medium armor.

No. Blocking being suicide is unbalanced against medium armor. Change dive and you still got soul assault (biggest offender) or other ults and skills that go through dodge (no problem with curse hah)

While I agree that there are still other offenders out there, Soul Assault although cheap in cost cannot be spammed like Dive. Curse although powerful cannot be spammed to any useful effect, continual application still results in delayed burst for 6s. Dive is both solid damage, extremely cheap to cast, instant cast, heals, and is undodgeable.

TheDoomsdayMonster

IMHO this ability isn't a big deal and seems ok as is...

I haven't had any problem killing the Wardens I've come across despite them using Dive against me...

But of course I cant speak for everyone...

J18696

Wtf is this thread even about anymore not a thread for discussing if medium is weaker than heavy/light its about cliff racer we use to have whip and surprise attack as a undodgeable attack and eveyone complained about that cliff racer is a ranged spamable and its only form of counter play is block they will chase you around rocks half the time even if you do try to line of sight it needs tobe looked at and changed

IZZEFlameLash

It does not even need adjusting. You are outnumbered, you will die eventually. Just accept that fact. I sometimes 1vX just for fun and just to test the limits of myself for fun. Normally, it does not end well, because of lags I am having not allowing me to use defensive skills half the time. And it is only natural that outnumbering side will kill me because my stat pools are lower in every regard compared to the group's total aggregated pool. What makes you think you should be able to kill not-complete potatoes outnumbering you? Even potatoes will get you eventually. Just because you cannot 1vx does not mean skill is broken or has no counterplay. Because those wardens are also so easily killable if not built for tankiness. And tanky wardens don't have enough damage to be a concern.

I mean, I could say this to you also. The phrase people like to use to people who got 1vxed by them... L2P. Or just relax and have fun. Dying in pvp is not really a shameful thing.

Nutshotz

I just have to lol. Block cliff racer on a mDK or a mNB yeah ok. [Rolls eyes] cloak clifff racer. [ are you *** ] <if cloak ever worked in the 1st place>

On a serious note tho. This skill either needs to be toned down or made dodgeable. Everyone saying that you can block it. You might be able to or might not. Anytime I've encountered an magDEN block seems to not work or that when I look at the recap and I see cliff racer dealing 7k in full impen @3400 resist. Now as for cloak, cliff will always pull me out even before the 1st one hits. So cloak isn't a good example to say just cloak away. Cloak doesn't always work.

crusnik91

U could block and cloak it. I personally think if this skill is nerf Mag warden will take a pretty big blow in the offensive department

Chilly-McFreeze

crusnik91 wrote: »

U could block and cloak it. I personally think if this skill is nerf Mag warden will take a pretty big blow in the offensive department

Did you read any of what was written? You may want to fold out the quote of this quote, where is explained how much stamina it costs to even block 1 second without being specialised in it. Since dive is a cheap spam, you could easily by outlasted resourcewise by any warden if you try to just block.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

From the following thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/355523/permablocking-and-block-cost-calculations-analysis

Previously, that would mean that you would have to pay, in the order:
1944 * 2 = 3888 stamina to block per second
1161 * 2 = 2322 stamina to block per second
143 * 2 = 286 stamina to block per second

With the changes, it now costs:
1944 * 4 = 7776 stamina to block per second
1161 * 4 = 4644 stamina to block per second
143 * 4 = 572 stamina to block per second

Using potions and the Constitution passive from the heavy armor skill line is enough to make this last build block literally all attacks, without outside help required. Adding in abilities and passives make it even easier - overkill even, it has become a lot harder for the two other specs. Blocking for only 1 second without a specialized block build will burn your entire stamina pool.

Blocking on a medium armor build is suicide, besides being ineffective. Dive being undodgeable is unbalanced against medium armor.

Metemsycosis

I have a bright idea. We should find two wardens. Assume of equal skill. One magicka, one stamina-based. Have them duel each other. See who wins and why.

C0ndor

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I have a bright idea. We should find two wardens. Assume of equal skill. One magicka, one stamina-based. Have them duel each other. See who wins and why.

The one who don't stand in line against the other one taking the full burst combo in the face but just the dive I think or the 2 of them are not allowed to use wasd?

TheBonesXXX

I wonder if the players who think they're legit, are coming to accept the fact that some of the mechanics and skill lines are pushing them through the game.. Theres just a lot of big ego mf'ers in this game who compete with the easiest to use skills and then call them sets talented.

Anyone ever look the fact that there is no PvP Power and PvP defense in this game? Wonder that maybe battle spirit is just a *** design?

Yes, I am for homogenization of gearsets because some of 'em are straight garbage and have no use. (lets face it, with a meta there is no "choice")

The difference in survivability between Shields, Evasion, and Block and without them is night and day in this game;
So its no question to me why people are apart of Proctard Nation.. Who wants to spend time whittling down a shield stacker who otherwise has no talent on a magicka character or try to fight someone who can get a RNG chain evade?

The damage ceiling and defense floor are so wide you could fit an army of f'n Failwhales through it; but it does in the form of zergs.

The gaps between the easy use ability between fire staff and lightning/frost are still massive. The difference between the use of 2h, sword and board, and duel wield are still huge.

Instead of asking for nerfs, maybe people should ask "why" did we get here in the first place since the beginning, first requires taking off the rose colored glasses.

Lets keep asking for nerfs and buffs though; instead of looking at the cause and effect; looking objectively at the changes made in this game history and unraveling the mystery and stupidity that is ESO balance.

---

Check this out.

1) Balance Separately

2) Player to AoE damage, give every AoE ability in PvP the magicka det treatment. They should hit like a wet noodle single target and be catastrophic in a clumped group.

3) Make siege great again; ballista should go back to melting players who are not being aware of their surrounding; players may have individual talent, but if you have no field awareness field artillery should absolutely two piece everyone. (it should be the only thing in PvP that can melt groups effectively)

4) PvP Damage and Reduction on PvP gearsets, I do not want to see procs "nerfed", I want to see geareset potentials made great and the separation of PVP and PVE entirely; no exceptions not even gear. "But muh endgame runs" don't care, PvE gear should not outperform PvP Gear.

5) Champion Tree templates that are saved, like WoW did with talent trees, players should be able to change from a pvp and pve sets (since its a pipedream to see them removed even though CP is just another mathematical disasterpiece)

You know what, people will quit; I'm cool with that, I'm absolutely good that some players quit. Freshblood and big ego'ed boneheads on the way out will always be a good thing.

Smmokkee

IZZESparkling wrote: »

It does not even need adjusting. You are outnumbered, you will die eventually. Just accept that fact. I sometimes 1vX just for fun and just to test the limits of myself for fun. Normally, it does not end well, because of lags I am having not allowing me to use defensive skills half the time. And it is only natural that outnumbering side will kill me because my stat pools are lower in every regard compared to the group's total aggregated pool. What makes you think you should be able to kill not-complete potatoes outnumbering you? Even potatoes will get you eventually. Just because you cannot 1vx does not mean skill is broken or has no counterplay. Because those wardens are also so easily killable if not built for tankiness. And tanky wardens don't have enough damage to be a concern.

I mean, I could say this to you also. The phrase people like to use to people who got 1vxed by them... L2P. Or just relax and have fun. Dying in pvp is not really a shameful thing.

No... Just no.

Koensol

Juhasow wrote: »

Reasoning behind this ability beeing undodgable and unreflactabe is that animation is long and there is a delay between using skill and hitting enemie with it and for zenimax it's downside....but it isnt downside that's actually a profit of this ability because it allows to create burst with addition of another skills.
So they added another profits to that skill because it already had profits....lol

Riiight... so while we are at it why not make solar flare, snipe, dizzying swing, vampires bane and all the other slow abilities also undodgeable?

leepalmer95

Koensol wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Reasoning behind this ability beeing undodgable and unreflactabe is that animation is long and there is a delay between using skill and hitting enemie with it and for zenimax it's downside....but it isnt downside that's actually a profit of this ability because it allows to create burst with addition of another skills.
So they added another profits to that skill because it already had profits....lol

Riiight... so while we are at it why not make solar flare, snipe, dizzying swing, vampires bane and all the other slow abilities also undodgeable?

Lets make surprise attack go through shields and dizzying stop magicka healing skills.

Sharee

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Reasoning behind this ability beeing undodgable and unreflactabe is that animation is long and there is a delay between using skill and hitting enemie with it and for zenimax it's downside....but it isnt downside that's actually a profit of this ability because it allows to create burst with addition of another skills.
So they added another profits to that skill because it already had profits....lol

Riiight... so while we are at it why not make solar flare, snipe, dizzying swing, vampires bane and all the other slow abilities also undodgeable?

Lets make surprise attack go through shields and dizzying stop magicka healing skills.

That's actually not a bad idea, except i am not sure surprise attack is the right candidate, considering how powerful cloak is. The balance of the whole class needs to be considered when assigning such powerful perks. personally, i'd give the shield-bypass to flame lash, but it's open to debate. In general, making single defenses less foolproof by introducing counters would bring a more balanced game overall.

Waffennacht

Sharee wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Reasoning behind this ability beeing undodgable and unreflactabe is that animation is long and there is a delay between using skill and hitting enemie with it and for zenimax it's downside....but it isnt downside that's actually a profit of this ability because it allows to create burst with addition of another skills.
So they added another profits to that skill because it already had profits....lol

Riiight... so while we are at it why not make solar flare, snipe, dizzying swing, vampires bane and all the other slow abilities also undodgeable?

Lets make surprise attack go through shields and dizzying stop magicka healing skills.

That's actually not a bad idea, except i am not sure surprise attack is the right candidate, considering how powerful cloak is. The balance of the whole class needs to be considered when assigning such powerful perks. personally, i'd give the shield-bypass to flame lash, but it's open to debate. In general, making single defenses less foolproof by introducing counters would bring a more balanced game overall.

Completely redo trapping webs