Dive needs to be dodgeable

Krayzie

i played my friends warden with another warden....

I can't tell you how many people we massacred and pulled out of stealth with this skill lmao

My death recaps from wardens are usually 3-4 5k+ screamers.

Thought I was just rolling poorly at first, then noticed I couldn't dodge them no matter what.


How idiotic

Joy_Division

Kilandros wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Just another typical nerf thread that fails to look at the larger context; made by a poster who has a history of complaining about how ZoS has overnerfed stam.

I dislike uncounterable skills, but the Mag warden has the worst dps in the game, no execute, and its only CC is a telegraphed delayed cast. It needs something or people will just quit the class and roll a procblade or a sorc.

But no, let's nerf it because people get pissed off when they get 1vXed.

What? Dive is basically a Xv1ers dream. There's basically zero counterplay to the skill. We both know raids are using it to focus priority targets because there's no counter. It's not like Wardens are hurting in PvP currently. How many Wardens is VE running now?

Since when is what VE set the standard for what's OP and what's not?

I said I didn't like the skill either, but just screaming for a nerf is all people want to do ... aside from complain to ZoS when those nerfs come during the patch notes.

If the class had more DPS and the skill didn't have such an obvious tell, then I'd be fine treating it like a normal spammable.

Lexxypwns

SodanTok wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

And to think, there were lots of people asking for buffs to cutting dive on PTS just because it doesn't have an extra effect

It still needs buff. The fact it goes through dodge does not change how it barely tickles anyone else or that mag morph is like 30% more damage.

In an entire thread about it being OP you're suggesting it needs a buff? The answer is the same as it was before, give swarm a Stam morph to increase pve viability. In PVP, Stam warden was incredible post 6% physical damage nerf and is still very very strong

Biro123

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Can't you just cloak it?

Don't know for sure, but I'd guess that the slow travel time would mean that if you cast before the target cloaks - then he cloaks before it lands - it would still hit and pull out of cloak?

Mojomonkeyman

Im playing magWarden and would gladly trade the "undodgable" part of dive vs allowing bursty vines to be aimed at enemy targets (making it a viable gapcloser) and applying a small dot in addition to self-hot.

I also think dive has some kind of crit bug. It crits way more often than my crit rate suggests. Around 10%-20% more on any test I have done. Might be coincidence, but it seems to be somewhat consistent.

C0ndor

Nb can counter with cloack, if u do that during skill travel, it will not hit you nor put you out of stealth. Btw best defence on a warden is put melee pressure, he will not spam cliff racer, he hasn't the sorc's shield and have a worst burst (and curse can't be dodged too btw).

C0ndor

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Im playing magWarden and would gladly trade the "undodgable" part of dive vs allowing bursty vines to be aimed at enemy targets (making it a viable gapcloser) and applying a small dot in addition to self-hot.

I also think dive has some kind of crit bug. It crits way more often than my crit rate suggests. Around 10%-20% more on any test I have done. Might be coincidence, but it seems to be somewhat consistent.

I would like to trade for longer buffs (vines and speed bird)

SodanTok

Lexxypwns wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

And to think, there were lots of people asking for buffs to cutting dive on PTS just because it doesn't have an extra effect

It still needs buff. The fact it goes through dodge does not change how it barely tickles anyone else or that mag morph is like 30% more damage.

In an entire thread about it being OP you're suggesting it needs a buff? The answer is the same as it was before, give swarm a Stam morph to increase pve viability. In PVP, Stam warden was incredible post 6% physical damage nerf and is still very very strong

Thread is about it being dodgeable. Which is true for the second morph that is much much better. So the stam morph still needs a buff or the mag morph needs a nerf.
Not to mention the undodgeable part counters medium stamina builds, those that get the bad morph of dive, not those magicka ones that get both ranged cc and more damage.

ChunkyCat

revonine wrote: »

Yoohoo4411 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing worse theen trying to get away and line of sight 6 people only to get hit for 5k uncounterable attacks.

What do you do? Do you block in order to not get melted? But then the groups kills you? Do you roll and struggle to outheal all the other dmg + 5k a second cliff racer?

Are you seriously complaining about not being able to 1vX?

Yeah why not? All gameplay styles are supposedly supported by ZOS in cyro (lol),
If your outnumbered are you just suppose to keel over and die or try to win?

Ok. Got it.

If you can't successfully 1vX then the game is obviously flawed.

Seems reasonable.

Krayzie

I don't know why people are saying you can cloak it as a defense.

15k magicka and I cannot cloak it?

NBrookus

Yoohoo4411 wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

Yoohoo4411 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing worse theen trying to get away and line of sight 6 people only to get hit for 5k uncounterable attacks.

What do you do? Do you block in order to not get melted? But then the groups kills you? Do you roll and struggle to outheal all the other dmg + 5k a second cliff racer?

Are you seriously complaining about not being able to 1vX?

Yeah why not? All gameplay styles are supposedly supported by ZOS in cyro (lol),
If your outnumbered are you just suppose to keel over and die or try to win?

Ok. Got it.

If you can't successfully 1vX then the game is obviously flawed.

Seems reasonable.

This has nothing to do with 1vX. You can't even run away from a larger group anymore, and it was difficult enough with gap closer spam snaring you even through mist form. You can't run and block at the same time.

Kilandros

Joy_Division wrote: »

Since when is what VE set the standard for what's OP and what's not?

I said I didn't like the skill either, but just screaming for a nerf is all people want to do ... aside from complain to ZoS when those nerfs come during the patch notes.

If the class had more DPS and the skill didn't have such an obvious tell, then I'd be fine treating it like a normal spammable.

I'm using VE as an example in response to what you said about Warden DPS:

Joy_Division wrote: »

I dislike uncounterable skills, but the Mag warden has the worst dps in the game, no execute, and its only CC is a telegraphed delayed cast. It needs something or people will just quit the class and roll a procblade or a sorc.

That is an exaggeration. We've seen how potent Warden DPS can be in organized raids when syncing their Subterranean Assault and focusing healers/raid leads with Cliff Racer.

Nowhere in my post did I suggest that VE sets the standard of what is or isn't OP. I'm saying that if the DPS was as deplorable as you're claiming it is, I suspect VE wouldn't be running as many Wardens as it is.

br0steen

You PC players crack me up

leepalmer95

Yoohoo4411 wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

Yoohoo4411 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing worse theen trying to get away and line of sight 6 people only to get hit for 5k uncounterable attacks.

What do you do? Do you block in order to not get melted? But then the groups kills you? Do you roll and struggle to outheal all the other dmg + 5k a second cliff racer?

Are you seriously complaining about not being able to 1vX?

Yeah why not? All gameplay styles are supposedly supported by ZOS in cyro (lol),
If your outnumbered are you just suppose to keel over and die or try to win?

Ok. Got it.

If you can't successfully 1vX then the game is obviously flawed.

Seems reasonable.

Again nothing to do with 1vX

Its the fact the skill has no counters and hits hard, is that so hard to understand.

Stratforge

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing worse theen trying to get away and line of sight 6 people only to get hit for 5k uncounterable attacks.

What do you do? Do you block in order to not get melted? But then the groups kills you? Do you roll and struggle to outheal all the other dmg + 5k a second cliff racer?

This. It's so spammable and there's nothing I can do about it. Seriously annoying skill.

br0steen

Stratforge wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing worse theen trying to get away and line of sight 6 people only to get hit for 5k uncounterable attacks.

What do you do? Do you block in order to not get melted? But then the groups kills you? Do you roll and struggle to outheal all the other dmg + 5k a second cliff racer?

This. It's so spammable and there's nothing I can do about it. Seriously annoying skill.

Lol it doesn't hit nearly hard enough. If it hit as hard as overload AND was undodgeable then yea probably broken, but it's easy to counter. How? Kill the warden XD

Strider_Roshin

br0steen wrote: »

Stratforge wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing worse theen trying to get away and line of sight 6 people only to get hit for 5k uncounterable attacks.

What do you do? Do you block in order to not get melted? But then the groups kills you? Do you roll and struggle to outheal all the other dmg + 5k a second cliff racer?

This. It's so spammable and there's nothing I can do about it. Seriously annoying skill.

Lol it doesn't hit nearly hard enough. If it hit as hard as overload AND was undodgeable then yea probably broken, but it's easy to counter. How? Kill the warden XD

So surprise attack is considered to be a hard hitting ability, but a move that hits harder than Surprise Attack doesn't hit hard? So which is it? Does surprise attack hit like a wet noodle now?

Anti_Virus

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

But medium armour is not weak at all this patch. Atm the strongest build for 1vx is prob medium nb. The 3 Times' i've been to no CP cyro after morrowind i myself run with 1-2 stamblades and We allways end up vs stamblade solo player zergs.

But i do agree you should be abele to dodge but cut it's travel time by 2/3. Atm pol and birds are insane in combination.

Medium armor proc blade < Heavy armor proc DK.

Proc blades are annoying I agree, but these heavy armored proc DKs are even worse.

Either way these proc sets are going to be the death of PvP if they don't remove them.

Sorry dude but heavy armor was not the meta before and it's definitely not meta now. Since the crusade against heavy in general be it a pure block build or not has nerfed* it to almost uselessness.

Medium was and still is better for stam builds.

Stratforge

br0steen wrote: »

Stratforge wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing worse theen trying to get away and line of sight 6 people only to get hit for 5k uncounterable attacks.

What do you do? Do you block in order to not get melted? But then the groups kills you? Do you roll and struggle to outheal all the other dmg + 5k a second cliff racer?

This. It's so spammable and there's nothing I can do about it. Seriously annoying skill.

Lol it doesn't hit nearly hard enough. If it hit as hard as overload AND was undodgeable then yea probably broken, but it's easy to counter. How? Kill the warden XD

You're lost. It regularly hits for 5-7k on a medium armor build.

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

But medium armour is not weak at all this patch. Atm the strongest build for 1vx is prob medium nb. The 3 Times' i've been to no CP cyro after morrowind i myself run with 1-2 stamblades and We allways end up vs stamblade solo player zergs.

But i do agree you should be abele to dodge but cut it's travel time by 2/3. Atm pol and birds are insane in combination.

Medium armor proc blade < Heavy armor proc DK.

Proc blades are annoying I agree, but these heavy armored proc DKs are even worse.

Either way these proc sets are going to be the death of PvP if they don't remove them.

Sorry dude but heavy armor was not the meta before and it's definitely not meta now. Since the crusade against heavy in general be it a pure block build or not has needed it to almost uselessness.

Medium was and still is better for stam builds.

Heavy was the meta for the last 9 months, what cyrodiil have you been in?

Strider_Roshin

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

But medium armour is not weak at all this patch. Atm the strongest build for 1vx is prob medium nb. The 3 Times' i've been to no CP cyro after morrowind i myself run with 1-2 stamblades and We allways end up vs stamblade solo player zergs.

But i do agree you should be abele to dodge but cut it's travel time by 2/3. Atm pol and birds are insane in combination.

Medium armor proc blade < Heavy armor proc DK.

Proc blades are annoying I agree, but these heavy armored proc DKs are even worse.

Either way these proc sets are going to be the death of PvP if they don't remove them.

Sorry dude but heavy armor was not the meta before and it's definitely not meta now. Since the crusade against heavy in general be it a pure block build or not has needed it to almost uselessness.

Medium was and still is better for stam builds.

Heavy weave DoTs, and let procs take care of the rest. The strongest builds I've fought were heavy armor proc DKs. Procs hit hard, but I kill them almost immediately.

leepalmer95

br0steen wrote: »

Stratforge wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing worse theen trying to get away and line of sight 6 people only to get hit for 5k uncounterable attacks.

What do you do? Do you block in order to not get melted? But then the groups kills you? Do you roll and struggle to outheal all the other dmg + 5k a second cliff racer?

This. It's so spammable and there's nothing I can do about it. Seriously annoying skill.

Lol it doesn't hit nearly hard enough. If it hit as hard as overload AND was undodgeable then yea probably broken, but it's easy to counter. How? Kill the warden XD

Its got the same toolitp scaling as surprise attack then 15% if 15m+ away then 6% from cold passive.

All this combined with 54k magicka builds with necro + 8% from fire staff and it hits hard.

Seen jack daniel throw out 5-7k against some heavy builds.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Sarousse wrote: »

The ability won't be nerfed. It's the only existing counter to permadodging-sprinting-cancerblades that are spreading through Cyrodiil faster than the warden's growing swarm.

I mean...any class can make a proctard dodge rolling build that also uses shuffle. Not sure why NB is somehow specifically called out for this. One of the most annoying players I have come across was actually a Stan DK who did all this.

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

But medium armour is not weak at all this patch. Atm the strongest build for 1vx is prob medium nb. The 3 Times' i've been to no CP cyro after morrowind i myself run with 1-2 stamblades and We allways end up vs stamblade solo player zergs.

But i do agree you should be abele to dodge but cut it's travel time by 2/3. Atm pol and birds are insane in combination.

Medium armor proc blade < Heavy armor proc DK.

Proc blades are annoying I agree, but these heavy armored proc DKs are even worse.

Either way these proc sets are going to be the death of PvP if they don't remove them.

Sorry dude but heavy armor was not the meta before and it's definitely not meta now. Since the crusade against heavy in general be it a pure block build or not has needed it to almost uselessness.

Medium was and still is better for stam builds.

Heavy was the meta for the last 9 months, what cyrodiil have you been in?

No it hasn't, you need to prove it not use anecdotal claims. Do I need to pull up Rich Lamberts data chart again?

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

But medium armour is not weak at all this patch. Atm the strongest build for 1vx is prob medium nb. The 3 Times' i've been to no CP cyro after morrowind i myself run with 1-2 stamblades and We allways end up vs stamblade solo player zergs.

But i do agree you should be abele to dodge but cut it's travel time by 2/3. Atm pol and birds are insane in combination.

Medium armor proc blade < Heavy armor proc DK.

Proc blades are annoying I agree, but these heavy armored proc DKs are even worse.

Either way these proc sets are going to be the death of PvP if they don't remove them.

Sorry dude but heavy armor was not the meta before and it's definitely not meta now. Since the crusade against heavy in general be it a pure block build or not has needed it to almost uselessness.

Medium was and still is better for stam builds.

Heavy was the meta for the last 9 months, what cyrodiil have you been in?

No it hasn't, you need to prove it not use anecdotal evidence. Do I need to pull up Rich Lamberts data chart again?

Here we go, lets all trust that general data he through up with no definition of what is it. Did he include everyone, only cp? Only high hp? Pve in bruma? Etc...

Let me rephrase that, most players who had any idea what they were doing used heavy in the last few months because it was simply better. You seen any decent high cp player and they'd be using heavy the only exception was magblades and mag sorc's. You can deny it all you want, like i said anyone who had any idea knows.

Hence why heavy was nerfed. But am sure it was balanced.

Anyway back on topic.

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

But medium armour is not weak at all this patch. Atm the strongest build for 1vx is prob medium nb. The 3 Times' i've been to no CP cyro after morrowind i myself run with 1-2 stamblades and We allways end up vs stamblade solo player zergs.

But i do agree you should be abele to dodge but cut it's travel time by 2/3. Atm pol and birds are insane in combination.

Medium armor proc blade < Heavy armor proc DK.

Proc blades are annoying I agree, but these heavy armored proc DKs are even worse.

Either way these proc sets are going to be the death of PvP if they don't remove them.

Sorry dude but heavy armor was not the meta before and it's definitely not meta now. Since the crusade against heavy in general be it a pure block build or not has needed it to almost uselessness.

Medium was and still is better for stam builds.

Heavy was the meta for the last 9 months, what cyrodiil have you been in?

No it hasn't, you need to prove it not use anecdotal evidence. Do I need to pull up Rich Lamberts data chart again?

Here we go, lets all trust that general data he through up with no definition of what is it. Did he include everyone, only cp? Only high hp? Pve in bruma? Etc...

Let me rephrase that, most players who had any idea what they were doing used heavy in the last few months because it was simply better. You seen any decent high cp player and they'd be using heavy the only exception was magblades and mag sorc's. You can deny it all you want, like i said anyone who had any idea knows.

Hence why heavy was nerfed. But am sure it was balanced.

Anyway back on topic.

So you have no proof of your claim just ranting if your feelings again eh? Good heavy armor was not and isn't the meta all, all the armors got nerfed.

Glad we got that straightened out.

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

But medium armour is not weak at all this patch. Atm the strongest build for 1vx is prob medium nb. The 3 Times' i've been to no CP cyro after morrowind i myself run with 1-2 stamblades and We allways end up vs stamblade solo player zergs.

But i do agree you should be abele to dodge but cut it's travel time by 2/3. Atm pol and birds are insane in combination.

Medium armor proc blade < Heavy armor proc DK.

Proc blades are annoying I agree, but these heavy armored proc DKs are even worse.

Either way these proc sets are going to be the death of PvP if they don't remove them.

Sorry dude but heavy armor was not the meta before and it's definitely not meta now. Since the crusade against heavy in general be it a pure block build or not has needed it to almost uselessness.

Medium was and still is better for stam builds.

Heavy was the meta for the last 9 months, what cyrodiil have you been in?

No it hasn't, you need to prove it not use anecdotal evidence. Do I need to pull up Rich Lamberts data chart again?

Here we go, lets all trust that general data he through up with no definition of what is it. Did he include everyone, only cp? Only high hp? Pve in bruma? Etc...

Let me rephrase that, most players who had any idea what they were doing used heavy in the last few months because it was simply better. You seen any decent high cp player and they'd be using heavy the only exception was magblades and mag sorc's. You can deny it all you want, like i said anyone who had any idea knows.

Hence why heavy was nerfed. But am sure it was balanced.

Anyway back on topic.

So you have no proof of your claim just ranting if your feelings again eh? Good heavy armor was not and isn't the meta all armor got nerfed.

Glad we got that straightened out.

Lmao, again all the decent players knew. Hence why they was all running heavy.

Its ok if you didn't notice not all players was in the know. Its still good but more balanced this patch.

But back on track.

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

But medium armour is not weak at all this patch. Atm the strongest build for 1vx is prob medium nb. The 3 Times' i've been to no CP cyro after morrowind i myself run with 1-2 stamblades and We allways end up vs stamblade solo player zergs.

But i do agree you should be abele to dodge but cut it's travel time by 2/3. Atm pol and birds are insane in combination.

Medium armor proc blade < Heavy armor proc DK.

Proc blades are annoying I agree, but these heavy armored proc DKs are even worse.

Either way these proc sets are going to be the death of PvP if they don't remove them.

Sorry dude but heavy armor was not the meta before and it's definitely not meta now. Since the crusade against heavy in general be it a pure block build or not has needed it to almost uselessness.

Medium was and still is better for stam builds.

Heavy was the meta for the last 9 months, what cyrodiil have you been in?

No it hasn't, you need to prove it not use anecdotal evidence. Do I need to pull up Rich Lamberts data chart again?

Here we go, lets all trust that general data he through up with no definition of what is it. Did he include everyone, only cp? Only high hp? Pve in bruma? Etc...

Let me rephrase that, most players who had any idea what they were doing used heavy in the last few months because it was simply better. You seen any decent high cp player and they'd be using heavy the only exception was magblades and mag sorc's. You can deny it all you want, like i said anyone who had any idea knows.

Hence why heavy was nerfed. But am sure it was balanced.

Anyway back on topic.

So you have no proof of your claim just ranting if your feelings again eh? Good heavy armor was not and isn't the meta all armor got nerfed.

Glad we got that straightened out.

Lmao, again all the decent players knew. Hence why they was all running heavy.

Its ok if you didn't notice not all players was in the know. Its still good but more balanced this patch.

But back on track.

Lmao, again all the decent players knew. Hence why they was all running medium.

It's ok if you didn't notice not all players was in the know. It's still good but more balanced this patch.

But back on track.

Anti_Virus

I think dive should have a faster animation but should be dodgable. Also I wish cutting dive had an additional effect to it.

TheBonesXXX

LOS, block, and invis work just fine.

Seriously, another nerf thread? The damn spell would become useless if it was able to be dodged.