Pet Health Regeneration is still bugged since PTS and yet to even be acknowledged

Erock25

Seriously, people are trying to defend this?

Apherius

Erock25 wrote: »

Seriously, people are trying to defend this?

nha nothing , wrong comment .

Transairion

Seriously, people are trying to defend this?

According to the "popular opinion" on my reddit discussion of this, apparently combat pets as a whole have been broken OP for a while and badly needed a nerf.

.... not just the Scamp, mind you. Both Twilight morphs, Clanferr too. Yes, Clanferr was "too strong".


I feel like I've entered some kind of Bizarrio alternate ESO or something. Late 2016 combat pets were still a laughing stock. Early 2017 and Volatile Familiar alone is meta. Mid 2017 and they're all supposedly too strong, even post Volatile Familiar nerf.

Something doesn't add up for me, only the Scamp got any kind of DPS change. The others only got survivability changes so 100% uptime of Wards wasn't required to keep them alive. That's a big big jump from "lol pets!?" to "OMFG nerf pets!!".

Sanctum74

I am not trying to troll the thread but really? You either heal the pet or let it die and resummon it. Not that hard or much of a drain on resources considering all the dps you are able to get from pets and scorcs high magic pool.

Scorcs have the highest dps, shields, magic pool, third bar, best escape tools, and pets to do damage/cc, heal, and take aggro. Is it really that much of a problem? Sounds like you need to start playing some other classes and see how bad it can really be. Its a great start Zos, keep it up!

StormWylf

Transairion wrote: »

Seriously, people are trying to defend this?

According to the "popular opinion" on my reddit discussion of this, apparently combat pets as a whole have been broken OP for a while and badly needed a nerf.

.... not just the Scamp, mind you. Both Twilight morphs, Clanferr too. Yes, Clanferr was "too strong".


I feel like I've entered some kind of Bizarrio alternate ESO or something. Late 2016 combat pets were still a laughing stock. Early 2017 and Volatile Familiar alone is meta. Mid 2017 and they're all supposedly too strong, even post Volatile Familiar nerf.

Something doesn't add up for me, only the Scamp got any kind of DPS change. The others only got survivability changes so 100% uptime of Wards wasn't required to keep them alive. That's a big big jump from "lol pets!?" to "OMFG nerf pets!!".

Oh it adds up, in every MMO I have played Class Envy was at the root of most forum complaints. And if there is enough whining and complaining, the devs usually cave in. It appears to be the case here.

Transairion

I am not trying to troll the thread but really? You either heal the pet or let it die and resummon it. Not that hard or much of a drain on resources considering all the dps you are able to get from pets and scorcs high magic pool.

That's just the thing... any Combat Pet user ALREADY had to do that. Pets aren't immune to damage like Summon Shade. Conjured Ward (and morphs) are in the skilline primarily because they apply to pets too. If you don't micromanage their health along with your own resources, they will die.

Outside combat they used to behave like players: resource regeneration (in their case, health) is boosted when not fighting. You only had to worry about your own personal resources before the next fight, like every other build in the game.

Now outside combat they won't regenerate any health, ever. You're forced to heal them yourself after every engagement, or losing them at any moment. That really means combat ends, regen resources, spend resources healing pets, regen resources AGAIN and then continue fighting. No other type of build has to do that. This kind of build didn't have to do it either.

It's just an added tedious layer of waiting and kills builds that previously existed, builds that already weren't optimal anyway: builds lacking heals for example. Builds with Twilight Tormentor have gone from poor to joke status. Clanferr goes from a low-DPS tank morph to a low-DPS magicka-guzzling morph as it can't tank without constant healing.

Now I'm not saying combat pets should return to full after every fight so you can just bumrush everything: but even a constant, low amount of regeneration (IE player in combat regen levels) is better than no regeneration at all.

Sanctum74

Transairion wrote: »

I am not trying to troll the thread but really? You either heal the pet or let it die and resummon it. Not that hard or much of a drain on resources considering all the dps you are able to get from pets and scorcs high magic pool.

That's just the thing... any Combat Pet user ALREADY had to do that. Pets aren't immune to damage like Summon Shade. Conjured Ward (and morphs) are in the skilline primarily because they apply to pets too. If you don't micromanage their health along with your own resources, they will die.

Outside combat they used to behave like players: resource regeneration (in their case, health) is boosted when not fighting. You only had to worry about your own personal resources before the next fight, like every other build in the game.

Now outside combat they won't regenerate any health, ever. You're forced to heal them yourself after every engagement, or losing them at any moment. That really means combat ends, regen resources, spend resources healing pets, regen resources AGAIN and then continue fighting. No other type of build has to do that. This kind of build didn't have to do it either.

It's just an added tedious layer of waiting and kills builds that previously existed, builds that already weren't optimal anyway: builds lacking heals for example. Builds with Twilight Tormentor have gone from poor to joke status. Clanferr goes from a low-DPS tank morph to a low-DPS magicka-guzzling morph as it can't tank without constant healing.

Now I'm not saying combat pets should return to full after every fight so you can just bumrush everything: but even a constant, low amount of regeneration (IE player in combat regen levels) is better than no regeneration at all.

You bring up some valid points, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices to use a certain build. For the cost of one skill you get dps over an extended period and it also takes aggro making it hard for players to target you. Think about how much damage it is able to do and take over that time and btw no other class is able to do that. Thats a huge benefit whether you have to heal it or not. Not to mention pets are only a small part of a scorcs dps so its not like you dont have dps options if the pet dies in combat.

Personally i dont think they should be able to be healed at all unless you choose the heal morph or the shield morph to protect them because they just provide too much benefit for the cost of one skill.

dpencil1

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally i dont think they should be able to be healed at all unless you choose the heal morph or the shield morph to protect them because they just provide too much benefit for the cost of one skill.

Is this even a build you play? They cost 2 skills. 3 if you include Overload. They don't hold agro for you anymore either. That was the stealth nerf they got in Homestead.

What this does is force Sorcs who would run only Volatile Familiar solo with double destro to be unable to ever get him healed up unless they drop one destro for a resto staff or also slot the Twilight Matriarch, which then costs another 2 skill slots.

milkbox

RE: healing other people's pets-

All the heals I've tried seem to work *eventually*. It's not that any one heal spell works better (or doesn't work at all)- it seems to have something to do with prioritization.

Sometimes a few players will get an overheal (and proc SPC) and it takes a few tries to hit the pet. I've tried this with all my healing spells.

"Lowest health" doesn't seem to be a factor. I suppose this has something to do with prioritizing players in your group before pets.

Maybe the restoration staff line should get a "veterinary morph" if no health regeneration for pets is here to stay.

radiostar

After leveling first a DK and then a Templar, I'm now playing a Sorc. I see what Z did there.

Sanctum74

dpencil1 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally i dont think they should be able to be healed at all unless you choose the heal morph or the shield morph to protect them because they just provide too much benefit for the cost of one skill.

Is this even a build you play? They cost 2 skills. 3 if you include Overload. They don't hold agro for you anymore either. That was the stealth nerf they got in Homestead.

What this does is force Sorcs who would run only Volatile Familiar solo with double destro to be unable to ever get him healed up unless they drop one destro for a resto staff or also slot the Twilight Matriarch, which then costs another 2 skill slots.

I do have a pet build but only use for pve because i feel its just too cheesy to use in pvp. The point i was making is not about having to double or triple bar the skill, but rather only having to cast it once and get all those benefits before it dies or gets healed. No other class can get that benefit from 1 skill cast. It may not aggro effectively, but with proper positioning you can stand behind the pet and it will take damage for you making it hard for you to be targeted.

You have to be willing to make sacrifices if you want to use a certain build and that should always be the case. I mostly main a templar and if i want an effective cc i have to use a destro staff or be a vamp, if i want heals over time i need a resto, damage i need dual wield, or tankiness i need s&b.

Its easy to pick apart the parts that suck about a skill or build, but if you look at all the benefits you can get from a pet build it is still well above what any other class can do and that does not even get into all of the other benefits scorcs have over other classes.

Apherius

dpencil1 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally i dont think they should be able to be healed at all unless you choose the heal morph or the shield morph to protect them because they just provide too much benefit for the cost of one skill.

Is this even a build you play? They cost 2 skills. 3 if you include Overload. They don't hold agro for you anymore either. That was the stealth nerf they got in Homestead.

What this does is force Sorcs who would run only Volatile Familiar solo with double destro to be unable to ever get him healed up unless they drop one destro for a resto staff or also slot the Twilight Matriarch, which then costs another 2 skill slots.

don't forgot that in this case the pet is no more useful for dps .

Magdalina

Sanctum74 wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally i dont think they should be able to be healed at all unless you choose the heal morph or the shield morph to protect them because they just provide too much benefit for the cost of one skill.

Is this even a build you play? They cost 2 skills. 3 if you include Overload. They don't hold agro for you anymore either. That was the stealth nerf they got in Homestead.

What this does is force Sorcs who would run only Volatile Familiar solo with double destro to be unable to ever get him healed up unless they drop one destro for a resto staff or also slot the Twilight Matriarch, which then costs another 2 skill slots.

I do have a pet build but only use for pve because i feel its just too cheesy to use in pvp. The point i was making is not about having to double or triple bar the skill, but rather only having to cast it once and get all those benefits before it dies or gets healed. No other class can get that benefit from 1 skill cast. It may not aggro effectively, but with proper positioning you can stand behind the pet and it will take damage for you making it hard for you to be targeted.

You have to be willing to make sacrifices if you want to use a certain build and that should always be the case. I mostly main a templar and if i want an effective cc i have to use a destro staff or be a vamp, if i want heals over time i need a resto, damage i need dual wield, or tankiness i need s&b.

Its easy to pick apart the parts that suck about a skill or build, but if you look at all the benefits you can get from a pet build it is still well above what any other class can do and that does not even get into all of the other benefits scorcs have over other classes.

Only benefit you get from pet being up is its own base attacks. Which do...something like 500 dps? Dat advantage. For 2 slots. To get something decent out of them you gotta activate their active skills, making them function like any other skill in the game - Familiar is a DoT, Twilight/clannie are a heal. Except you lose this skill if they die. So like...you have a flying BoL but it can die at the most "convenient" moment possible then cost you a cast time and a nice magicka price for it to become available again. There are trade offs, but this was not needed. Familiar's damage needed a nerf alright, that's it.

What they need to do for pets to be viable but not op is to make them convenient to use while pulling decent (not op) numbers. This change is a giant step in the wrong direction. It does nothing where it actually matters, where pets give competitive advantage - standing in Springs in a trial/dungeon, instead making pets super clunky to use everywhere else.

NBrookus

It's a really dumb change that makes no sense.

One of the first things sorcs get are pets; the last things they get are any heals or shields. So you don't even have the option to heal your pets if you are a low level toon running around solo -- like virtually every new player to the game.

I was on a lowbie sorc today. No harness, no hardened, no crit surge, no healing ward. I had to slot healing springs to heal the twilight that I'm trying to level so it can heal me when I morph it until I get healing ward. Except I'm in delves so the pet's in the ceiling or under the floor and can't be healed anyway.

Lord_Eomer

No healing on pets nerf is a massive hidden nerf!

Lord_Eomer

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, apologies for the delay. We got some answers tracked down for you and this is, actually, intended behavior. There were some changes for pets that went in back on the PTS, and unfortunately the patch notes for the changes were missed. Here are the things we changed and what is currently live:

• Removed passive healing from summoned pets.
• Increased a pet's damage reduction to radius attacks to 85% from 75%. This bonus applies to all attacks in Trials.
• Clannfear pets no longer taunt enemies in Trials.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

No healing on pets nerf is a massive hidden nerf!

This is killing sorcerer pets build PVE!

ESO is really not on right track!

Sanctum74

Magdalina wrote: »

Only benefit you get from pet being up is its own base attacks. Which do...something like 500 dps? Dat advantage. For 2 slots. To get something decent out of them you gotta activate their active skills, making them function like any other skill in the game - Familiar is a DoT, Twilight/clannie are a heal. Except you lose this skill if they die. So like...you have a flying BoL but it can die at the most "convenient" moment possible then cost you a cast time and a nice magicka price for it to become available again. There are trade offs, but this was not needed. Familiar's damage needed a nerf alright, that's it.

What they need to do for pets to be viable but not op is to make them convenient to use while pulling decent (not op) numbers. This change is a giant step in the wrong direction. It does nothing where it actually matters, where pets give competitive advantage - standing in Springs in a trial/dungeon, instead making pets super clunky to use everywhere else.

I guess you have never dualed a scorc with pets out then? I agree the damage sucks but the greatest benefit from pets is the damage they take for you and making it almost impossible to be targeted. You complain about having to throw out a heal or two, but do you have any idea how much resources are wasted from someone trying to fight a pet build because theyre attacks keep targeting the pets? A lot more than would be spent on a heal.

I think the biggest problem is trying to balance skills and classes to work in pvp and pve. I'm not sure that it will ever be able to be done effectively.

max_only

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Only benefit you get from pet being up is its own base attacks. Which do...something like 500 dps? Dat advantage. For 2 slots. To get something decent out of them you gotta activate their active skills, making them function like any other skill in the game - Familiar is a DoT, Twilight/clannie are a heal. Except you lose this skill if they die. So like...you have a flying BoL but it can die at the most "convenient" moment possible then cost you a cast time and a nice magicka price for it to become available again. There are trade offs, but this was not needed. Familiar's damage needed a nerf alright, that's it.

What they need to do for pets to be viable but not op is to make them convenient to use while pulling decent (not op) numbers. This change is a giant step in the wrong direction. It does nothing where it actually matters, where pets give competitive advantage - standing in Springs in a trial/dungeon, instead making pets super clunky to use everywhere else.

I guess you have never dualed a scorc with pets out then? I agree the damage sucks but the greatest benefit from pets is the damage they take for you and making it almost impossible to be targeted. You complain about having to throw out a heal or two, but do you have any idea how much resources are wasted from someone trying to fight a pet build because theyre attacks keep targeting the pets? A lot more than would be spent on a heal.

I think the biggest problem is trying to balance skills and classes to work in pvp and pve. I'm not sure that it will ever be able to be done effectively.

Listen buddy, pal.

I'm not talking about in combat health regen. Heal pets, okay fine whatever next.


Out of combat health regen buddy. Out. Of. Combat. Health. Regen.

You are talking about someone trying to fight (in combat see) a pet build and maybe the pet healing faster than below average dps can kill it. I get it buddy, I'm a magnb tank or a paper towel healplar, I don't actually do any damage worth writing home about. You make points when it comes to being IN combat.

The rest of us are talking about Out of Combat regen.......

I don't even like Sorcerers and this change makes no sense.

AcadianPaladin

As one of those templar healers who fret over friendly unfull health bars, my elf is a bit OCD about healing the pets of others in town. She is experienced with every heal her class and the resto staff provide and agrees that the resto staff Grand Healing (she actually uses the Healing Springs morph) is the most reliable and least obtrusive tool for this. Healing Springs does not prioritize, it simply heals all (up to 6 I think) within its ranged radius. It is also visually less obtrusive to others in town than some of the other healing spells.

Magdalina

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Only benefit you get from pet being up is its own base attacks. Which do...something like 500 dps? Dat advantage. For 2 slots. To get something decent out of them you gotta activate their active skills, making them function like any other skill in the game - Familiar is a DoT, Twilight/clannie are a heal. Except you lose this skill if they die. So like...you have a flying BoL but it can die at the most "convenient" moment possible then cost you a cast time and a nice magicka price for it to become available again. There are trade offs, but this was not needed. Familiar's damage needed a nerf alright, that's it.

What they need to do for pets to be viable but not op is to make them convenient to use while pulling decent (not op) numbers. This change is a giant step in the wrong direction. It does nothing where it actually matters, where pets give competitive advantage - standing in Springs in a trial/dungeon, instead making pets super clunky to use everywhere else.

I guess you have never dualed a scorc with pets out then? I agree the damage sucks but the greatest benefit from pets is the damage they take for you and making it almost impossible to be targeted. You complain about having to throw out a heal or two, but do you have any idea how much resources are wasted from someone trying to fight a pet build because theyre attacks keep targeting the pets? A lot more than would be spent on a heal.

I think the biggest problem is trying to balance skills and classes to work in pvp and pve. I'm not sure that it will ever be able to be done effectively.

That was a purely PvE point of view. I avoid pet builds in PvP because of the targeting system which I believe is stupid and needs a rework. I've actually made a video about it shortly after the new tab targeting was introduced and bug reported it because the targeting thing just was too stupid to be true but apparently it was intended as well. It's also why I'll never do a PvP pet build myself.

Tbh the only thing they needed to do for PvP(and the health of the game in general) was fix the target system so having someone tab targeted overrides someone being in your way. That's how it used to function anyway and that was fine. It's also extremely annoying in PvE when I want to interrupt that one mob and tab target it yet end up hitting some irrelevant ad that happened to run by. If this change was to target the pet builds in PvP, well...it makes it even dumber imo.

Kiwi

good job and long overdue

ofc sorc users will moan about it, now they almost have to try instead of just facerolling

Sanctum74

max_only wrote: »

Listen buddy, pal.

I'm not talking about in combat health regen. Heal pets, okay fine whatever next.


Out of combat health regen buddy. Out. Of. Combat. Health. Regen.

You are talking about someone trying to fight (in combat see) a pet build and maybe the pet healing faster than below average dps can kill it. I get it buddy, I'm a magnb tank or a paper towel healplar, I don't actually do any damage worth writing home about. You make points when it comes to being IN combat.

The rest of us are talking about Out of Combat regen.......

I don't even like Sorcerers and this change makes no sense.[/quote]

Lol ok buddy, so its not a problem to heal them in combat, but it is a problem to heal them out of combat. That makes no sense buddy. It seems it would be much easier to heal them out of combat or just re summon them when they die. After all they are not living breathing creatures they should not have any recovery.

If this is the biggest complaint that scorcs can come up with then it shows how good they really have it. Dont worry im sure in a week or two there will be an emergency patch to fix this. They will say it was a mistake and then they will buff pets damage and healing by 300% and give all scorcs free cookies cause cookies are op!

Waffennacht

Wait...

If combat prayer doesn't work then They Removed it.

It DID work.

They would have had to INTENTIONALLY remove it from working.

Wtf

Iselin

Sanctum74 wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally i dont think they should be able to be healed at all unless you choose the heal morph or the shield morph to protect them because they just provide too much benefit for the cost of one skill.

Is this even a build you play? They cost 2 skills. 3 if you include Overload. They don't hold agro for you anymore either. That was the stealth nerf they got in Homestead.

What this does is force Sorcs who would run only Volatile Familiar solo with double destro to be unable to ever get him healed up unless they drop one destro for a resto staff or also slot the Twilight Matriarch, which then costs another 2 skill slots.

I do have a pet build but only use for pve because i feel its just too cheesy to use in pvp. The point i was making is not about having to double or triple bar the skill, but rather only having to cast it once and get all those benefits before it dies or gets healed. No other class can get that benefit from 1 skill cast. It may not aggro effectively, but with proper positioning you can stand behind the pet and it will take damage for you making it hard for you to be targeted.

You have to be willing to make sacrifices if you want to use a certain build and that should always be the case. I mostly main a templar and if i want an effective cc i have to use a destro staff or be a vamp, if i want heals over time i need a resto, damage i need dual wield, or tankiness i need s&b.

Its easy to pick apart the parts that suck about a skill or build, but if you look at all the benefits you can get from a pet build it is still well above what any other class can do and that does not even get into all of the other benefits scorcs have over other classes.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the sorcerer pets were regenerating health too fast and were over-performing. If you want to adjust that, which do you think would be the better change to try first?

1. Reduce their in combat regen by X amount, or
2. Totally remove their in combat and out of combat health regen.

Everything else you're going on about? It's totally irrelevant. They removed in combat and out of combat health regen by 100%

How anyone can defend that "fix" is beyond comprehension.

Sanctum74

Iselin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally i dont think they should be able to be healed at all unless you choose the heal morph or the shield morph to protect them because they just provide too much benefit for the cost of one skill.

Is this even a build you play? They cost 2 skills. 3 if you include Overload. They don't hold agro for you anymore either. That was the stealth nerf they got in Homestead.

What this does is force Sorcs who would run only Volatile Familiar solo with double destro to be unable to ever get him healed up unless they drop one destro for a resto staff or also slot the Twilight Matriarch, which then costs another 2 skill slots.

I do have a pet build but only use for pve because i feel its just too cheesy to use in pvp. The point i was making is not about having to double or triple bar the skill, but rather only having to cast it once and get all those benefits before it dies or gets healed. No other class can get that benefit from 1 skill cast. It may not aggro effectively, but with proper positioning you can stand behind the pet and it will take damage for you making it hard for you to be targeted.

You have to be willing to make sacrifices if you want to use a certain build and that should always be the case. I mostly main a templar and if i want an effective cc i have to use a destro staff or be a vamp, if i want heals over time i need a resto, damage i need dual wield, or tankiness i need s&b.

Its easy to pick apart the parts that suck about a skill or build, but if you look at all the benefits you can get from a pet build it is still well above what any other class can do and that does not even get into all of the other benefits scorcs have over other classes.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the sorcerer pets were regenerating health too fast and were over-performing. If you want to adjust that, which do you think would be the better change to try first?

1. Reduce their in combat regen by X amount, or
2. Totally remove their in combat and out of combat health regen.

Everything else you're going on about? It's totally irrelevant. They removed in combat and out of combat health regen by 100%

How anyone can defend that "fix" is beyond comprehension.

Maybe the change has nothing to do with pet health regen but more about the resource management play style they are trying to push which makes everything i said rellevent. You should have to use resources to get that much of a benefit. Again you still have options heal, dont heal, re summon, or just use another skill if you truly feel this tiny nerf is that much of a problem. Its very easy to defend this fix with just some basic logic of skill costs vs benefits received.

Iselin

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally i dont think they should be able to be healed at all unless you choose the heal morph or the shield morph to protect them because they just provide too much benefit for the cost of one skill.

Is this even a build you play? They cost 2 skills. 3 if you include Overload. They don't hold agro for you anymore either. That was the stealth nerf they got in Homestead.

What this does is force Sorcs who would run only Volatile Familiar solo with double destro to be unable to ever get him healed up unless they drop one destro for a resto staff or also slot the Twilight Matriarch, which then costs another 2 skill slots.

I do have a pet build but only use for pve because i feel its just too cheesy to use in pvp. The point i was making is not about having to double or triple bar the skill, but rather only having to cast it once and get all those benefits before it dies or gets healed. No other class can get that benefit from 1 skill cast. It may not aggro effectively, but with proper positioning you can stand behind the pet and it will take damage for you making it hard for you to be targeted.

You have to be willing to make sacrifices if you want to use a certain build and that should always be the case. I mostly main a templar and if i want an effective cc i have to use a destro staff or be a vamp, if i want heals over time i need a resto, damage i need dual wield, or tankiness i need s&b.

Its easy to pick apart the parts that suck about a skill or build, but if you look at all the benefits you can get from a pet build it is still well above what any other class can do and that does not even get into all of the other benefits scorcs have over other classes.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the sorcerer pets were regenerating health too fast and were over-performing. If you want to adjust that, which do you think would be the better change to try first?

1. Reduce their in combat regen by X amount, or
2. Totally remove their in combat and out of combat health regen.

Everything else you're going on about? It's totally irrelevant. They removed in combat and out of combat health regen by 100%

How anyone can defend that "fix" is beyond comprehension.

Maybe the change has nothing to do with pet health regen but more about the resource management play style they are trying to push which makes everything i said rellevent. You should have to use resources to get that much of a benefit. Again you still have options heal, dont heal, re summon, or just use another skill if you truly feel this tiny nerf is that much of a problem. Its very easy to defend this fix with just some basic logic of skill costs vs benefits received.

The nerf is only tiny for the Warden bear because its damage mitigation is through the roof. And sorc pets, just like the bear, take up 2 slots.

Regardless, you're either deliberately missing the point or you honestly don't get it... not sure which: your resource cost argument is all about needing to heal pets IN COMBAT which BTW, they've always needed.

A reasonable change to put pressure on resources to keep them alive would be to maybe cut their in combat regen in half. But zero regen? That's a pretty ham-fisted tweak wouldn't you say?

But the no regen ever out of combat makes zero sense. Your ideas about how to adjust to it are nothing but work-arounds forced on players for no legitimate fun game play purpose.

Players do regenerate resources quickly out of combat. If that stopped working next patch are you going to be the guy who says that this is a good change because players need to slow down?

Myerscod

@ZOS_GinaBruno Still waiting on a developer comment

Sanctum74

Iselin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally i dont think they should be able to be healed at all unless you choose the heal morph or the shield morph to protect them because they just provide too much benefit for the cost of one skill.

Is this even a build you play? They cost 2 skills. 3 if you include Overload. They don't hold agro for you anymore either. That was the stealth nerf they got in Homestead.

What this does is force Sorcs who would run only Volatile Familiar solo with double destro to be unable to ever get him healed up unless they drop one destro for a resto staff or also slot the Twilight Matriarch, which then costs another 2 skill slots.

I do have a pet build but only use for pve because i feel its just too cheesy to use in pvp. The point i was making is not about having to double or triple bar the skill, but rather only having to cast it once and get all those benefits before it dies or gets healed. No other class can get that benefit from 1 skill cast. It may not aggro effectively, but with proper positioning you can stand behind the pet and it will take damage for you making it hard for you to be targeted.

You have to be willing to make sacrifices if you want to use a certain build and that should always be the case. I mostly main a templar and if i want an effective cc i have to use a destro staff or be a vamp, if i want heals over time i need a resto, damage i need dual wield, or tankiness i need s&b.

Its easy to pick apart the parts that suck about a skill or build, but if you look at all the benefits you can get from a pet build it is still well above what any other class can do and that does not even get into all of the other benefits scorcs have over other classes.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the sorcerer pets were regenerating health too fast and were over-performing. If you want to adjust that, which do you think would be the better change to try first?

1. Reduce their in combat regen by X amount, or
2. Totally remove their in combat and out of combat health regen.

Everything else you're going on about? It's totally irrelevant. They removed in combat and out of combat health regen by 100%

How anyone can defend that "fix" is beyond comprehension.

Maybe the change has nothing to do with pet health regen but more about the resource management play style they are trying to push which makes everything i said rellevent. You should have to use resources to get that much of a benefit. Again you still have options heal, dont heal, re summon, or just use another skill if you truly feel this tiny nerf is that much of a problem. Its very easy to defend this fix with just some basic logic of skill costs vs benefits received.

The nerf is only tiny for the Warden bear because its damage mitigation is through the roof. And sorc pets, just like the bear, take up 2 slots.

Regardless, you're either deliberately missing the point or you honestly don't get it... not sure which: your resource cost argument is all about needing to heal pets IN COMBAT which BTW, they've always needed.

A reasonable change to put pressure on resources to keep them alive would be to maybe cut their in combat regen in half. But zero regen? That's a pretty ham-fisted tweak wouldn't you say?

But the no regen ever out of combat makes zero sense. Your ideas about how to adjust to it are nothing but work-arounds forced on players for no legitimate fun game play purpose.

Players do regenerate resources quickly out of combat. If that stopped working next patch are you going to be the guy who says that this is a good change because players need to slow down?

I am not mssing the point at all which is why i have given detailed explanations instead of just saying its unfair and it should be fixed.

The benefits receved from casting 1 skill is huge and you should have to use resources to maintain that buff or recast it to get it back. Its a summoned dead creature, it shouldnt regenerate. Even when it does die you get almost all its cost back in magic anyway so whats the problem?

So lets see for 1 skill cast you get:

A creature to fight for you
A creature to either heal or stun in addition to doing damage
A creature to take damage for you and make it so you cant be targeted
8% increase in max health
20% increase in health and stamina recovery

And more importantly you would most likely be using the necropotence set which gives you an additional 4000 magic which is a huge boost to damage, heals, shields, and sustain.

Any other class would have to slot and use 5 different abilities and use half their resource pool to get those benefits. So no i dont feel bad that you may have to heal or "gasp" re summon your pet once in awhile. Scorcs are still way above the rest of the classes and sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your build. Not that this tiny change is a sacrifice in any way just a minor inconvenience.

I mean really whats so hard about healing or resummoning? Out of all of the complaints still havnt heard anyone explain why its so hard to do?

Waffennacht

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally i dont think they should be able to be healed at all unless you choose the heal morph or the shield morph to protect them because they just provide too much benefit for the cost of one skill.

Is this even a build you play? They cost 2 skills. 3 if you include Overload. They don't hold agro for you anymore either. That was the stealth nerf they got in Homestead.

What this does is force Sorcs who would run only Volatile Familiar solo with double destro to be unable to ever get him healed up unless they drop one destro for a resto staff or also slot the Twilight Matriarch, which then costs another 2 skill slots.

I do have a pet build but only use for pve because i feel its just too cheesy to use in pvp. The point i was making is not about having to double or triple bar the skill, but rather only having to cast it once and get all those benefits before it dies or gets healed. No other class can get that benefit from 1 skill cast. It may not aggro effectively, but with proper positioning you can stand behind the pet and it will take damage for you making it hard for you to be targeted.

You have to be willing to make sacrifices if you want to use a certain build and that should always be the case. I mostly main a templar and if i want an effective cc i have to use a destro staff or be a vamp, if i want heals over time i need a resto, damage i need dual wield, or tankiness i need s&b.

Its easy to pick apart the parts that suck about a skill or build, but if you look at all the benefits you can get from a pet build it is still well above what any other class can do and that does not even get into all of the other benefits scorcs have over other classes.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the sorcerer pets were regenerating health too fast and were over-performing. If you want to adjust that, which do you think would be the better change to try first?

1. Reduce their in combat regen by X amount, or
2. Totally remove their in combat and out of combat health regen.

Everything else you're going on about? It's totally irrelevant. They removed in combat and out of combat health regen by 100%

How anyone can defend that "fix" is beyond comprehension.

Maybe the change has nothing to do with pet health regen but more about the resource management play style they are trying to push which makes everything i said rellevent. You should have to use resources to get that much of a benefit. Again you still have options heal, dont heal, re summon, or just use another skill if you truly feel this tiny nerf is that much of a problem. Its very easy to defend this fix with just some basic logic of skill costs vs benefits received.

The nerf is only tiny for the Warden bear because its damage mitigation is through the roof. And sorc pets, just like the bear, take up 2 slots.

Regardless, you're either deliberately missing the point or you honestly don't get it... not sure which: your resource cost argument is all about needing to heal pets IN COMBAT which BTW, they've always needed.

A reasonable change to put pressure on resources to keep them alive would be to maybe cut their in combat regen in half. But zero regen? That's a pretty ham-fisted tweak wouldn't you say?

But the no regen ever out of combat makes zero sense. Your ideas about how to adjust to it are nothing but work-arounds forced on players for no legitimate fun game play purpose.

Players do regenerate resources quickly out of combat. If that stopped working next patch are you going to be the guy who says that this is a good change because players need to slow down?

I am not mssing the point at all which is why i have given detailed explanations instead of just saying its unfair and it should be fixed.

The benefits receved from casting 1 skill is huge and you should have to use resources to maintain that buff or recast it to get it back. Its a summoned dead creature, it shouldnt regenerate. Even when it does die you get almost all its cost back in magic anyway so whats the problem?

So lets see for 1 skill cast you get:

A creature to fight for you
A creature to either heal or stun in addition to doing damage
A creature to take damage for you and make it so you cant be targeted
8% increase in max health
20% increase in health and stamina recovery

And more importantly you would most likely be using the necropotence set which gives you an additional 4000 magic which is a huge boost to damage, heals, shields, and sustain.

Any other class would have to slot and use 5 different abilities and use half their resource pool to get those benefits. So no i dont feel bad that you may have to heal or "gasp" re summon your pet once in awhile. Scorcs are still way above the rest of the classes and sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your build. Not that this tiny change is a sacrifice in any way just a minor inconvenience.

I mean really whats so hard about healing or resummoning? Out of all of the complaints still havnt heard anyone explain why its so hard to do?

Actually from what I know most classes get similar buffs just by slotting already viable abilities, or just flat passively.

NB gets the resistance, crit modifiers, max health, max magicka all by passively slotting good abilities, not double slotting one pet.

JasonSilverSpring

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Personally i dont think they should be able to be healed at all unless you choose the heal morph or the shield morph to protect them because they just provide too much benefit for the cost of one skill.

Is this even a build you play? They cost 2 skills. 3 if you include Overload. They don't hold agro for you anymore either. That was the stealth nerf they got in Homestead.

What this does is force Sorcs who would run only Volatile Familiar solo with double destro to be unable to ever get him healed up unless they drop one destro for a resto staff or also slot the Twilight Matriarch, which then costs another 2 skill slots.

I do have a pet build but only use for pve because i feel its just too cheesy to use in pvp. The point i was making is not about having to double or triple bar the skill, but rather only having to cast it once and get all those benefits before it dies or gets healed. No other class can get that benefit from 1 skill cast. It may not aggro effectively, but with proper positioning you can stand behind the pet and it will take damage for you making it hard for you to be targeted.

You have to be willing to make sacrifices if you want to use a certain build and that should always be the case. I mostly main a templar and if i want an effective cc i have to use a destro staff or be a vamp, if i want heals over time i need a resto, damage i need dual wield, or tankiness i need s&b.

Its easy to pick apart the parts that suck about a skill or build, but if you look at all the benefits you can get from a pet build it is still well above what any other class can do and that does not even get into all of the other benefits scorcs have over other classes.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the sorcerer pets were regenerating health too fast and were over-performing. If you want to adjust that, which do you think would be the better change to try first?

1. Reduce their in combat regen by X amount, or
2. Totally remove their in combat and out of combat health regen.

Everything else you're going on about? It's totally irrelevant. They removed in combat and out of combat health regen by 100%

How anyone can defend that "fix" is beyond comprehension.

Maybe the change has nothing to do with pet health regen but more about the resource management play style they are trying to push which makes everything i said rellevent. You should have to use resources to get that much of a benefit. Again you still have options heal, dont heal, re summon, or just use another skill if you truly feel this tiny nerf is that much of a problem. Its very easy to defend this fix with just some basic logic of skill costs vs benefits received.

The nerf is only tiny for the Warden bear because its damage mitigation is through the roof. And sorc pets, just like the bear, take up 2 slots.

Regardless, you're either deliberately missing the point or you honestly don't get it... not sure which: your resource cost argument is all about needing to heal pets IN COMBAT which BTW, they've always needed.

A reasonable change to put pressure on resources to keep them alive would be to maybe cut their in combat regen in half. But zero regen? That's a pretty ham-fisted tweak wouldn't you say?

But the no regen ever out of combat makes zero sense. Your ideas about how to adjust to it are nothing but work-arounds forced on players for no legitimate fun game play purpose.

Players do regenerate resources quickly out of combat. If that stopped working next patch are you going to be the guy who says that this is a good change because players need to slow down?

I am not mssing the point at all which is why i have given detailed explanations instead of just saying its unfair and it should be fixed.

The benefits receved from casting 1 skill is huge and you should have to use resources to maintain that buff or recast it to get it back. Its a summoned dead creature, it shouldnt regenerate. Even when it does die you get almost all its cost back in magic anyway so whats the problem?

So lets see for 1 skill cast you get:

A creature to fight for you
A creature to either heal or stun in addition to doing damage
A creature to take damage for you and make it so you cant be targeted
8% increase in max health
20% increase in health and stamina recovery

And more importantly you would most likely be using the necropotence set which gives you an additional 4000 magic which is a huge boost to damage, heals, shields, and sustain.

Any other class would have to slot and use 5 different abilities and use half their resource pool to get those benefits. So no i dont feel bad that you may have to heal or "gasp" re summon your pet once in awhile. Scorcs are still way above the rest of the classes and sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your build. Not that this tiny change is a sacrifice in any way just a minor inconvenience.

I mean really whats so hard about healing or resummoning? Out of all of the complaints still havnt heard anyone explain why its so hard to do?

It is not so much that it is hard, but rather it is an inconvenience imposed which does nothing to counter the things you list as to why a sorc pet is so powerful.

Also, it is not easy to unsummon a pet now. So, for a lower level player they just wait till the pet dies at the worst time and then take damage while they recast the pet.

I really don't see how making the quality of life harder for a sorc solves anything.