Rip Nightblades (assuming they were alive at one point)

Krayzie

I do fine with my nightblade.....

Stam and magicka

Morrowind update

Dungeons, trials, PVP, world bosses, maelstrom

It's called using as many proc sets as possible and being as cheap as you can

tinythinker

Sorry, I forgot I made this a long while back and hadn't used it in a while and found a use for it here...

laksikus

@hmsdragonfly
No templars cant be DPS.
Templars can be Das but i See no way they can be damage per second

Artis

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I think I just found a gold mine lol. This comment of yours is full of flaws and I will mine every single gram of gold from it.

- No, in this case, we are comparing the effectiveness of all classes in tanking. So, classes are competing teams, and Sword and Board is the tool. All classes use the same tool to tank: Sword and Board. Sure, you can tank with a bow, and tanking with a bow is similar to hammering a nail with an oven.

- For the Love of God, I said again for the 99+ time, of course DK is the best tank for PvE. How many times do I have to repeat this? And before you say "But if DK is the best tank so why do we call non-DK tanks "tanks"?". Like how we call a Magplar DPS or a StamDK DPS "DPS". Or we are not allowed to call a Magplar DPS or a StamDK DPS "DPS"?

- Non-DK tanks are like non-Magsorc DPS last patch. They can be tanks, it's just that they are much less effective so no one takes them to vet trials. Just like no one took non-Magsorc DPS last patch.

- Did I just see you say you "Stam DPS"? But according to your logic, Stam DPS aren't DPS, because in PvE Magsorc DPS is so effective, Stam DDs are subpar, doing damage with a stam build is like hammering a nail with an oven. It's your logic, not mine. So, make up your mind. Are Stam DPS "DPS"?

- Did I just see you say something about Two-Handed isn't PvE DPS setup? Alcast said Two-Handed is viable PvE DPS setup at this patch. With his track records, I will take Alcast's advice over some random dude on the forum. Sorry, for the hard truth.

- PvP is not end-game? So, screw the PvP community? I don't care about your definition of end-game, PvP has always been a part of ESO end-game since launch, and the PvP community has always treated it as such. It's a fact. Btw there's a ranked competition, it's called Emperorship. There's a PvP Leaderboard, and the higher you are on the leaderboard, the better the rewards you get at the end of the campaign. Not to mention PvP itself is already competitive.

- The WoW stuffs are completely relevant here. In WoW, only some classes can become tanks, other classes can't tank, like at all. While here, all classes can pick up sword and board (tanking tool) and tank, while some are much more effective than others, just like how all classes can pick up Dual Wield/Bow and become Stam DDs, and exactly like how all classes can pick up the destro staff and become Mag DDs.

- Funny you are talking about "logical fallacies" yet according to you non-DK tanks are not real tanks but non-Magsorc DDs are still DDs. The only two people who are against my point of "You can fill in any role as any class, but certain classes are much more suited for certain roles" are you and Shadzilla. So much for "everyone".

Hope I didn't miss anything.

Just answer this question: Can a Magplar be a DPS?

Yes? No? Simple question.

If you avoid answering that question, I will take it as a "Yes".

Facepalm. Yeah no.

Classes don't tank. Players tank. Classes are tools. Similar to how characters "have" tools (sword and shield, etc). Having a tank with a bow instead of a shield is the same as tanking with a class other than a DK. That's why DK is a tank class, and 1h+shield is a tank weapon. Even though you can equip a bow, or use another class.

Exactly. That's why DK is a tank class. You explained it yourself.

Wut? Go take a hike, breath some fresh air so your brain starts functioning again. Stam dps is a thing, just not in trials. Well, not in homestead. Stam dps is great and was great in 4man dungeons, for example. Of course, if he uses dps weapons. And yes, dps weapons are weapons that are the most effective, even though you can dps with a resto staff. Just like a tank class is a class used for tanking better than others. I really don't understand where your confusion comes from. I explained very clearly where you were wrong already.

Yes, in homestead 2h wasn't a viable dps setup. The only random dude on forum in this thread is you. Everyone else got their trial clears and understood the meta. That comment was posted before any 2h videos and obviously didn't take into account new meta. If you're trying to use that as your argument, that's pathetic, really. Don't you have common sense and not understand that it was about old meta? Again - viable is not good enough. Has to be the best, the second best = bad if there's any choice. If you're still having troubles understanding, let's replace 2H with a resto staff.

No? Who said screw the pvp community? Roleplaying is also not end-game. No one is saying screw them. And no pvp leaderboard is nothing like ranked competition. Even I was on top of that leaderboard. It doesn't reflect player's skill whatsoever. Being #1 on a pvp leaderboard doesn't mean you are the best or top PvPer. It just means that you spent more time farming AP. Like, do you REALLY not see that? smh

You are the one who started bringing WoW up. Obviously it's irrelevant, I said it myself.

Funny how you are trying to find a contradiction yet committing one more logical fallacy. Just because DKs are the only tank class at the moment, it doesn't mean that there will also be only one healer or DPS class. ALso, it's the only two people arguing since the beginning. There were other replies. Re-read the topic and pay attention to "reactions". You will clearly see that no one supports your point. Even two people against it is 2 times more than the number of people for it.

hmsdragonfly

Artis wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I think I just found a gold mine lol. This comment of yours is full of flaws and I will mine every single gram of gold from it.

- No, in this case, we are comparing the effectiveness of all classes in tanking. So, classes are competing teams, and Sword and Board is the tool. All classes use the same tool to tank: Sword and Board. Sure, you can tank with a bow, and tanking with a bow is similar to hammering a nail with an oven.

- For the Love of God, I said again for the 99+ time, of course DK is the best tank for PvE. How many times do I have to repeat this? And before you say "But if DK is the best tank so why do we call non-DK tanks "tanks"?". Like how we call a Magplar DPS or a StamDK DPS "DPS". Or we are not allowed to call a Magplar DPS or a StamDK DPS "DPS"?

- Non-DK tanks are like non-Magsorc DPS last patch. They can be tanks, it's just that they are much less effective so no one takes them to vet trials. Just like no one took non-Magsorc DPS last patch.

- Did I just see you say you "Stam DPS"? But according to your logic, Stam DPS aren't DPS, because in PvE Magsorc DPS is so effective, Stam DDs are subpar, doing damage with a stam build is like hammering a nail with an oven. It's your logic, not mine. So, make up your mind. Are Stam DPS "DPS"?

- Did I just see you say something about Two-Handed isn't PvE DPS setup? Alcast said Two-Handed is viable PvE DPS setup at this patch. With his track records, I will take Alcast's advice over some random dude on the forum. Sorry, for the hard truth.

- PvP is not end-game? So, screw the PvP community? I don't care about your definition of end-game, PvP has always been a part of ESO end-game since launch, and the PvP community has always treated it as such. It's a fact. Btw there's a ranked competition, it's called Emperorship. There's a PvP Leaderboard, and the higher you are on the leaderboard, the better the rewards you get at the end of the campaign. Not to mention PvP itself is already competitive.

- The WoW stuffs are completely relevant here. In WoW, only some classes can become tanks, other classes can't tank, like at all. While here, all classes can pick up sword and board (tanking tool) and tank, while some are much more effective than others, just like how all classes can pick up Dual Wield/Bow and become Stam DDs, and exactly like how all classes can pick up the destro staff and become Mag DDs.

- Funny you are talking about "logical fallacies" yet according to you non-DK tanks are not real tanks but non-Magsorc DDs are still DDs. The only two people who are against my point of "You can fill in any role as any class, but certain classes are much more suited for certain roles" are you and Shadzilla. So much for "everyone".

Hope I didn't miss anything.

Just answer this question: Can a Magplar be a DPS?

Yes? No? Simple question.

If you avoid answering that question, I will take it as a "Yes".

Facepalm. Yeah no.

Classes don't tank. Players tank. Classes are tools. Similar to how characters "have" tools (sword and shield, etc). Having a tank with a bow instead of a shield is the same as tanking with a class other than a DK. That's why DK is a tank class, and 1h+shield is a tank weapon. Even though you can equip a bow, or use another class.

Exactly. That's why DK is a tank class. You explained it yourself.

Wut? Go take a hike, breath some fresh air so your brain starts functioning again. Stam dps is a thing, just not in trials. Well, not in homestead. Stam dps is great and was great in 4man dungeons, for example. Of course, if he uses dps weapons. And yes, dps weapons are weapons that are the most effective, even though you can dps with a resto staff. Just like a tank class is a class used for tanking better than others. I really don't understand where your confusion comes from. I explained very clearly where you were wrong already.

Yes, in homestead 2h wasn't a viable dps setup. The only random dude on forum in this thread is you. Everyone else got their trial clears and understood the meta. That comment was posted before any 2h videos and obviously didn't take into account new meta. If you're trying to use that as your argument, that's pathetic, really. Don't you have common sense and not understand that it was about old meta? Again - viable is not good enough. Has to be the best, the second best = bad if there's any choice. If you're still having troubles understanding, let's replace 2H with a resto staff.

No? Who said screw the pvp community? Roleplaying is also not end-game. No one is saying screw them. And no pvp leaderboard is nothing like ranked competition. Even I was on top of that leaderboard. It doesn't reflect player's skill whatsoever. Being #1 on a pvp leaderboard doesn't mean you are the best or top PvPer. It just means that you spent more time farming AP. Like, do you REALLY not see that? smh

You are the one who started bringing WoW up. Obviously it's irrelevant, I said it myself.

Funny how you are trying to find a contradiction yet committing one more logical fallacy. Just because DKs are the only tank class at the moment, it doesn't mean that there will also be only one healer or DPS class. ALso, it's the only two people arguing since the beginning. There were other replies. Re-read the topic and pay attention to "reactions". You will clearly see that no one supports your point. Even two people against it is 2 times more than the number of people for it.

You are running in circle.

- So it means that as long as you take up a sword and board (aka "tanking tool"), you can become a tank (if built correctly ofcourse, you don't want to tank in Mother Sorrow - like how you don't want to DPS in Hist Bark), it doesn't matter what class you are. Sure, DK is the most effective in PvE content, like how Magsorc is the most effective in PvE last patch, and I will still recommend everyone to go for a DK tank, but it doesn't mean other classes can't become tank.

- It means DK is the best tank class, but all other classes are also "tank classes", while they are less effective than DK tanks, they are viable to some degree, like Stam DDs, non-Magsorc DDs.

- Wait, did you just say that stam DD is a thing because it's viable in 4-man dungeon? But 2 pages ago, you said that 4-man dungeon isn't end-game, something being viable in 4-man content (like, Saptank, or Templar healtank) doesn't mean anything because the only thing that can be considered is vet trial leaderboard. So, make up your mind. I am pretty sure someone is triggered really hard here.

- But that comment was made after the Morrowind patch, so after 2H becoming viable. Oh, so you didn't update the meta quickly enough? Take a look like 5 pages ago, you insulted me like crazy because I also didn't update the meta (MagDK DPS) quickly enough. Just admit it. You were wrong. And say it out loud. I said I was wrong when I was point out that my data was outdated. You preached a lot about being adult and such, and I am pretty sure admitting one's fault is a part of "adulthood". Just say it out loud what an adult says in this situation. It is gonna be okay.

- Are you saying that PvP isn't competitive? PvP doesn't need a leaderboard to be competitive, the whole PvP itself is competitive. You are constantly competing against other players. Yet there's still a ranked leaderboard, and it is there to simply reward people for taking part in PvP. I don't say the leaderboard in PvP is perfect, it's not. PvPers don't need a leaderboard to show off their skills, they show their skills every minute of participating in PvP, by defeating other players. The leaderboard is there only for rewards. The only way for PvEers to compete against other players and show off their skills is by a score system, that's the difference. And if you are planning to say that PvPers can be boosted to get high ranks in the leaderboard, don't forget that there are PvEers who pay other players to run vMA, to run vet trials to get flawless, to get highscore, which is exactly the same thing as boosting in PvP.

- And it is absolutely relevant like I have explained. You are short on argument so all you can do is saying "I said that it's irrelevant" to try to avoid my points there. In WoW, only some classes can become tanks, other classes can't tank, like at all. While here, all classes can pick up sword and board (tanking tool) and tank, while some are much more effective than others, just like how all classes can pick up Dual Wield/Bow and become Stam DDs, and exactly like how all classes can pick up the destro staff and become Mag DDs.

- You didn't answer my question at all. Can a Magplar be a DD? Yes/No? It's just a simple question, why can't you just answer it? As as I said before, you didn't answer the question, so I take it as a yes. So you agree with me that a Magplar can be a DD. So, why can't a Templar tank? Because DK tank is more effective in vet trial? Last patch a Magsorc is also more effective than a Magplar in vet trial, does it mean Magplar cannot be a DD?

Artis

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

You are running in circle.

- So it means that as long as you take up a sword and board (aka "tanking tool"), you can become a tank (if built correctly ofcourse, you don't want to tank in Mother Sorrow - like how you don't want to DPS in Hist Bark), it doesn't matter what class you are. Sure, DK is the most effective in PvE content, like how Magsorc is the most effective in PvE last patch, and I will still recommend everyone to go for a DK tank, but it doesn't mean other classes can't become tank.

- It means DK is the best tank class, but all other classes are also "tank classes", while they are less effective than DK tanks, they are viable to some degree, like Stam DDs, non-Magsorc DDs.

- Wait, did you just say that stam DD is a thing because it's viable in 4-man dungeon? But 2 pages ago, you said that 4-man dungeon isn't end-game, something being viable in 4-man content (like, Saptank, or Templar healtank) doesn't mean anything because the only thing that can be considered is vet trial leaderboard. So, make up your mind. I am pretty sure someone is triggered really hard here.

- But that comment was made after the Morrowind patch, so after 2H becoming viable. Oh, so you didn't update the meta quickly enough? Take a look like 5 pages ago, you insulted me like crazy because I also didn't update the meta (MagDK DPS) quickly enough. Just admit it. You were wrong. And say it out loud. I said I was wrong when I was point out that my data was outdated. You preached a lot about being adult and such, and I am pretty sure admitting one's fault is a part of "adulthood". Just say it out loud what an adult says in this situation. It is gonna be okay.

- Are you saying that PvP isn't competitive? PvP doesn't need a leaderboard to be competitive, the whole PvP itself is competitive. You are constantly competing against other players. Yet there's still a ranked leaderboard, and it is there to simply reward people for taking part in PvP. I don't say the leaderboard in PvP is perfect, it's not. PvPers don't need a leaderboard to show off their skills, they show their skills every minute of participating in PvP, by defeating other players. The leaderboard is there only for rewards. The only way for PvEers to compete against other players and show off their skills is by a score system, that's the difference. And if you are planning to say that PvPers can be boosted to get high ranks in the leaderboard, don't forget that there are PvEers who pay other players to run vMA, to run vet trials to get flawless, to get highscore, which is exactly the same thing as boosting in PvP.

- And it is absolutely relevant like I have explained. You are short on argument so all you can do is saying "I said that it's irrelevant" to try to avoid my points there. In WoW, only some classes can become tanks, other classes can't tank, like at all. While here, all classes can pick up sword and board (tanking tool) and tank, while some are much more effective than others, just like how all classes can pick up Dual Wield/Bow and become Stam DDs, and exactly like how all classes can pick up the destro staff and become Mag DDs.

- You didn't answer my question at all. Can a Magplar be a DD? Yes/No? It's just a simple question, why can't you just answer it? As as I said before, you didn't answer the question, so I take it as a yes. So you agree with me that a Magplar can be a DD. So, why can't a Templar tank? Because DK tank is more effective in vet trial? Last patch a Magsorc is also more effective than a Magplar in vet trial, does it mean Magplar cannot be a DD?

Yeah, it's like I keep repeating a topic to my students until they understand. When you understand - this running in circle will end.

"So it means you can hammer nails as long as you have a flat surface, it doesn't matter what tool you use. Sure, hammers are the most effective in hammering nails, but it doesn't mean you can't use microscopes for that". No, no it doesn't mean that. Other classes can become tank. Also, you can tank without 1h+shield or dps with a resto staff. But it's gimping yourself and if you have choice - why would you do that? Resto staff is a healing weapon, shield is a tanking weapon, DK is a tank class. You can heal without a resto staff, tank without a shield and use any class to tank. You can also use microscopes to hammer nails. But why would you do that? And even though you can do those things, hammers still remain the hammering tools and DKs still remain tank class.

Yes, that's correct. And because other classes tank considerably worse, DK is a tank class. Best X = X class. A simple formula. Sure, while resto staves are less effective than destro staves for dealing damage, they are still viable to some degree. Doesn't change the fact that destro staves are DPS weapons for mages. p.s. looks like stam or nonsorc dps aren't that bad anymore compared to sorcs.

vet dsa is a 4 man dungeon with a leaderboard... Facepalm. Do you even PvE?

So? Like after the patch the meta became known right away? I have nothing to admit. That comment was made after the patch, but definitely before any videos of 2h dps. Which they are still not that common. The meta barely started forming. And I didn't insult you for that. If you found something offensive - that's up to you. I highlighted how illogical you were. And it was about illogical fallacies and not stopping them. Besides, again, current meta barely started forming. I haven't even finished solo content yet, barely a few groups completed vHOF, there's no competition yet. It's nothing at all like MDK vs Sorc in the stable meta that was around for almost a year. On the other hand, maybe you're mistaking me for OP.

I have no idea what this mumbling about PvP is. PvP is competitive in nature because you are fighting other players. However, in ESO there's no record of competition and no ranks and nothing you can compare. Like really, don't you understand? It's like kids playing soccer in their yard vs UEFA. Sure, those kids play against each other, score goals, win and lose. But it's not ranked or supported competition. It's them doing their own thing for fun. PvP in wow is endgame, no question about it. It has ranks, it has a bracket ONLY for max level characters, it has MMR scores etc. ESO is the opposite of that. Heck, they even disabled CP in BG to make sure that it's NOT endgame and players with low CP could participate. PvP doesn't even require max cp anymore.


No, absolutely not. No comparison. The class system there is completely different and meta is different and the competition rules are completely different. There are no scores. The only thing that matters is what was the number under which you completed new raid IN REAL TIME. World first, second, etc. There's no need to push dps or whatever. Secondly, you just explained it yourself. Here - everyone can pick up anything, in wow - no. So here the criteria of what is a "tank class" are different. And they were already written above in this thread.

I didn't answer because I didn't see it. Yes, a magplar can focus on doing damage. A templar can also be a tank sure. Where did you see me arguing with that? You can hammer nails with microscopes and keyboards all you want. It's up to you. Whether something CAN OR CAN NOT be done by a class, doesn't define if it's a tank class or whatever. Not in this game. In this game technically every class can do anything. But some classes are MUCH better at some things, which makes them "tank" classes or "healer" classes etc. How hard can it be to understand?

hmsdragonfly

Artis wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

You are running in circle.

- So it means that as long as you take up a sword and board (aka "tanking tool"), you can become a tank (if built correctly ofcourse, you don't want to tank in Mother Sorrow - like how you don't want to DPS in Hist Bark), it doesn't matter what class you are. Sure, DK is the most effective in PvE content, like how Magsorc is the most effective in PvE last patch, and I will still recommend everyone to go for a DK tank, but it doesn't mean other classes can't become tank.

- It means DK is the best tank class, but all other classes are also "tank classes", while they are less effective than DK tanks, they are viable to some degree, like Stam DDs, non-Magsorc DDs.

- Wait, did you just say that stam DD is a thing because it's viable in 4-man dungeon? But 2 pages ago, you said that 4-man dungeon isn't end-game, something being viable in 4-man content (like, Saptank, or Templar healtank) doesn't mean anything because the only thing that can be considered is vet trial leaderboard. So, make up your mind. I am pretty sure someone is triggered really hard here.

- But that comment was made after the Morrowind patch, so after 2H becoming viable. Oh, so you didn't update the meta quickly enough? Take a look like 5 pages ago, you insulted me like crazy because I also didn't update the meta (MagDK DPS) quickly enough. Just admit it. You were wrong. And say it out loud. I said I was wrong when I was point out that my data was outdated. You preached a lot about being adult and such, and I am pretty sure admitting one's fault is a part of "adulthood". Just say it out loud what an adult says in this situation. It is gonna be okay.

- Are you saying that PvP isn't competitive? PvP doesn't need a leaderboard to be competitive, the whole PvP itself is competitive. You are constantly competing against other players. Yet there's still a ranked leaderboard, and it is there to simply reward people for taking part in PvP. I don't say the leaderboard in PvP is perfect, it's not. PvPers don't need a leaderboard to show off their skills, they show their skills every minute of participating in PvP, by defeating other players. The leaderboard is there only for rewards. The only way for PvEers to compete against other players and show off their skills is by a score system, that's the difference. And if you are planning to say that PvPers can be boosted to get high ranks in the leaderboard, don't forget that there are PvEers who pay other players to run vMA, to run vet trials to get flawless, to get highscore, which is exactly the same thing as boosting in PvP.

- And it is absolutely relevant like I have explained. You are short on argument so all you can do is saying "I said that it's irrelevant" to try to avoid my points there. In WoW, only some classes can become tanks, other classes can't tank, like at all. While here, all classes can pick up sword and board (tanking tool) and tank, while some are much more effective than others, just like how all classes can pick up Dual Wield/Bow and become Stam DDs, and exactly like how all classes can pick up the destro staff and become Mag DDs.

- You didn't answer my question at all. Can a Magplar be a DD? Yes/No? It's just a simple question, why can't you just answer it? As as I said before, you didn't answer the question, so I take it as a yes. So you agree with me that a Magplar can be a DD. So, why can't a Templar tank? Because DK tank is more effective in vet trial? Last patch a Magsorc is also more effective than a Magplar in vet trial, does it mean Magplar cannot be a DD?

Yeah, it's like I keep repeating a topic to my students until they understand. When you understand - this running in circle will end.

"So it means you can hammer nails as long as you have a flat surface, it doesn't matter what tool you use. Sure, hammers are the most effective in hammering nails, but it doesn't mean you can't use microscopes for that". No, no it doesn't mean that. Other classes can become tank. Also, you can tank without 1h+shield or dps with a resto staff. But it's gimping yourself and if you have choice - why would you do that? Resto staff is a healing weapon, shield is a tanking weapon, DK is a tank class. You can heal without a resto staff, tank without a shield and use any class to tank. You can also use microscopes to hammer nails. But why would you do that? And even though you can do those things, hammers still remain the hammering tools and DKs still remain tank class.

Yes, that's correct. And because other classes tank considerably worse, DK is a tank class. Best X = X class. A simple formula. Sure, while resto staves are less effective than destro staves for dealing damage, they are still viable to some degree. Doesn't change the fact that destro staves are DPS weapons for mages. p.s. looks like stam or nonsorc dps aren't that bad anymore compared to sorcs.

vet dsa is a 4 man dungeon with a leaderboard... Facepalm. Do you even PvE?

So? Like after the patch the meta became known right away? I have nothing to admit. That comment was made after the patch, but definitely before any videos of 2h dps. Which they are still not that common. The meta barely started forming. And I didn't insult you for that. If you found something offensive - that's up to you. I highlighted how illogical you were. And it was about illogical fallacies and not stopping them. Besides, again, current meta barely started forming. I haven't even finished solo content yet, barely a few groups completed vHOF, there's no competition yet. It's nothing at all like MDK vs Sorc in the stable meta that was around for almost a year. On the other hand, maybe you're mistaking me for OP.

I have no idea what this mumbling about PvP is. PvP is competitive in nature because you are fighting other players. However, in ESO there's no record of competition and no ranks and nothing you can compare. Like really, don't you understand? It's like kids playing soccer in their yard vs UEFA. Sure, those kids play against each other, score goals, win and lose. But it's not ranked or supported competition. It's them doing their own thing for fun. PvP in wow is endgame, no question about it. It has ranks, it has a bracket ONLY for max level characters, it has MMR scores etc. ESO is the opposite of that. Heck, they even disabled CP in BG to make sure that it's NOT endgame and players with low CP could participate. PvP doesn't even require max cp anymore.


No, absolutely not. No comparison. The class system there is completely different and meta is different and the competition rules are completely different. There are no scores. The only thing that matters is what was the number under which you completed new raid IN REAL TIME. World first, second, etc. There's no need to push dps or whatever. Secondly, you just explained it yourself. Here - everyone can pick up anything, in wow - no. So here the criteria of what is a "tank class" are different. And they were already written above in this thread.

I didn't answer because I didn't see it. Yes, a magplar can focus on doing damage. A templar can also be a tank sure. Where did you see me arguing with that? You can hammer nails with microscopes and keyboards all you want. It's up to you. Whether something CAN OR CAN NOT be done by a class, doesn't define if it's a tank class or whatever. Not in this game. In this game technically every class can do anything. But some classes are MUCH better at some things, which makes them "tank" classes or "healer" classes etc. How hard can it be to understand?

I am arguing against a rock.

This is such a waste of time and energy.

I will keep it simple.

Tanking with a non-DK tank is like DPSing with a Stamplar.
Q: Is it optimal in vet trials?
A: Nope, go for DK tank and magsorc DD if you want to be optimal.
Q: Is it like hammering a nail with an oven?
A: If you consider DPSing with a stamplar is similar to hammering a nail with an oven. Do you?
Q: So why play a non-DK tank?
A: Same reason why you play a Stamplar DD.
Q: But, tanking with a non-DK is like DPSing with a restro!
A: No, tanking with a bow is like DPSing with a restro. Tanking with a non-DK tank is like DPSing with a Stamplar.
Q: OK i see it, Templar tanks are the best in PvP. But PvP isn't endgame because of ____insert nonsense gibberish___
A: You think PvPers care what your definition of end-game is? They know that their Templar tanks are tanks and they fill Cyrodiil with Templar tanks.

If you want to save the pride of your E-something, go ahead, say something to change the subject, run around to avoid my points. Or don't, I don't care. Self-granted Professor who granted himself the "Professor of ESO" title but failed to see the viability of 2H in PvE. "But but I said it before Alcast made the video about 2H". Your post: June 6th. Alcast's video: May 19th. Guess you are gonna say "But I hadn't watched that video at June 6th". Then don't claim yourself to be a "professor of ESO"? You were very vocal about how you tested things yourself and didn't follow things Youtubers said, because you are "the Professor of ESO". Yet here you are. Oh well, it's a self-granted title after all, what should I expect? Btw this is my last post. Into the ignore list you go.

kessik221

tldr

nightblades are dominating in bgs. which besides a quest line was the main focus of the xpac. Yes resource management got obliterated. they don't want ANY class to have infinite sustain. including nightblades.

Artis

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

You are running in circle.

- So it means that as long as you take up a sword and board (aka "tanking tool"), you can become a tank (if built correctly ofcourse, you don't want to tank in Mother Sorrow - like how you don't want to DPS in Hist Bark), it doesn't matter what class you are. Sure, DK is the most effective in PvE content, like how Magsorc is the most effective in PvE last patch, and I will still recommend everyone to go for a DK tank, but it doesn't mean other classes can't become tank.

- It means DK is the best tank class, but all other classes are also "tank classes", while they are less effective than DK tanks, they are viable to some degree, like Stam DDs, non-Magsorc DDs.

- Wait, did you just say that stam DD is a thing because it's viable in 4-man dungeon? But 2 pages ago, you said that 4-man dungeon isn't end-game, something being viable in 4-man content (like, Saptank, or Templar healtank) doesn't mean anything because the only thing that can be considered is vet trial leaderboard. So, make up your mind. I am pretty sure someone is triggered really hard here.

- But that comment was made after the Morrowind patch, so after 2H becoming viable. Oh, so you didn't update the meta quickly enough? Take a look like 5 pages ago, you insulted me like crazy because I also didn't update the meta (MagDK DPS) quickly enough. Just admit it. You were wrong. And say it out loud. I said I was wrong when I was point out that my data was outdated. You preached a lot about being adult and such, and I am pretty sure admitting one's fault is a part of "adulthood". Just say it out loud what an adult says in this situation. It is gonna be okay.

- Are you saying that PvP isn't competitive? PvP doesn't need a leaderboard to be competitive, the whole PvP itself is competitive. You are constantly competing against other players. Yet there's still a ranked leaderboard, and it is there to simply reward people for taking part in PvP. I don't say the leaderboard in PvP is perfect, it's not. PvPers don't need a leaderboard to show off their skills, they show their skills every minute of participating in PvP, by defeating other players. The leaderboard is there only for rewards. The only way for PvEers to compete against other players and show off their skills is by a score system, that's the difference. And if you are planning to say that PvPers can be boosted to get high ranks in the leaderboard, don't forget that there are PvEers who pay other players to run vMA, to run vet trials to get flawless, to get highscore, which is exactly the same thing as boosting in PvP.

- And it is absolutely relevant like I have explained. You are short on argument so all you can do is saying "I said that it's irrelevant" to try to avoid my points there. In WoW, only some classes can become tanks, other classes can't tank, like at all. While here, all classes can pick up sword and board (tanking tool) and tank, while some are much more effective than others, just like how all classes can pick up Dual Wield/Bow and become Stam DDs, and exactly like how all classes can pick up the destro staff and become Mag DDs.

- You didn't answer my question at all. Can a Magplar be a DD? Yes/No? It's just a simple question, why can't you just answer it? As as I said before, you didn't answer the question, so I take it as a yes. So you agree with me that a Magplar can be a DD. So, why can't a Templar tank? Because DK tank is more effective in vet trial? Last patch a Magsorc is also more effective than a Magplar in vet trial, does it mean Magplar cannot be a DD?

Yeah, it's like I keep repeating a topic to my students until they understand. When you understand - this running in circle will end.

"So it means you can hammer nails as long as you have a flat surface, it doesn't matter what tool you use. Sure, hammers are the most effective in hammering nails, but it doesn't mean you can't use microscopes for that". No, no it doesn't mean that. Other classes can become tank. Also, you can tank without 1h+shield or dps with a resto staff. But it's gimping yourself and if you have choice - why would you do that? Resto staff is a healing weapon, shield is a tanking weapon, DK is a tank class. You can heal without a resto staff, tank without a shield and use any class to tank. You can also use microscopes to hammer nails. But why would you do that? And even though you can do those things, hammers still remain the hammering tools and DKs still remain tank class.

Yes, that's correct. And because other classes tank considerably worse, DK is a tank class. Best X = X class. A simple formula. Sure, while resto staves are less effective than destro staves for dealing damage, they are still viable to some degree. Doesn't change the fact that destro staves are DPS weapons for mages. p.s. looks like stam or nonsorc dps aren't that bad anymore compared to sorcs.

vet dsa is a 4 man dungeon with a leaderboard... Facepalm. Do you even PvE?

So? Like after the patch the meta became known right away? I have nothing to admit. That comment was made after the patch, but definitely before any videos of 2h dps. Which they are still not that common. The meta barely started forming. And I didn't insult you for that. If you found something offensive - that's up to you. I highlighted how illogical you were. And it was about illogical fallacies and not stopping them. Besides, again, current meta barely started forming. I haven't even finished solo content yet, barely a few groups completed vHOF, there's no competition yet. It's nothing at all like MDK vs Sorc in the stable meta that was around for almost a year. On the other hand, maybe you're mistaking me for OP.

I have no idea what this mumbling about PvP is. PvP is competitive in nature because you are fighting other players. However, in ESO there's no record of competition and no ranks and nothing you can compare. Like really, don't you understand? It's like kids playing soccer in their yard vs UEFA. Sure, those kids play against each other, score goals, win and lose. But it's not ranked or supported competition. It's them doing their own thing for fun. PvP in wow is endgame, no question about it. It has ranks, it has a bracket ONLY for max level characters, it has MMR scores etc. ESO is the opposite of that. Heck, they even disabled CP in BG to make sure that it's NOT endgame and players with low CP could participate. PvP doesn't even require max cp anymore.


No, absolutely not. No comparison. The class system there is completely different and meta is different and the competition rules are completely different. There are no scores. The only thing that matters is what was the number under which you completed new raid IN REAL TIME. World first, second, etc. There's no need to push dps or whatever. Secondly, you just explained it yourself. Here - everyone can pick up anything, in wow - no. So here the criteria of what is a "tank class" are different. And they were already written above in this thread.

I didn't answer because I didn't see it. Yes, a magplar can focus on doing damage. A templar can also be a tank sure. Where did you see me arguing with that? You can hammer nails with microscopes and keyboards all you want. It's up to you. Whether something CAN OR CAN NOT be done by a class, doesn't define if it's a tank class or whatever. Not in this game. In this game technically every class can do anything. But some classes are MUCH better at some things, which makes them "tank" classes or "healer" classes etc. How hard can it be to understand?

I am arguing against a rock.

This is such a waste of time and energy.

I will keep it simple.

Tanking with a non-DK tank is like DPSing with a Stamplar.
Q: Is it optimal in vet trials?
A: Nope, go for DK tank and magsorc DD if you want to be optimal.
Q: Is it like hammering a nail with an oven?
A: If you consider DPSing with a stamplar is similar to hammering a nail with an oven. Do you?
Q: So why play a non-DK tank?
A: Same reason why you play a Stamplar DD.
Q: But, tanking with a non-DK is like DPSing with a restro!
A: No, tanking with a bow is like DPSing with a restro. Tanking with a non-DK tank is like DPSing with a Stamplar.
Q: OK i see it, Templar tanks are the best in PvP. But PvP isn't endgame because of ____insert nonsense gibberish___
A: You think PvPers care what your definition of end-game is? They know that their Templar tanks are tanks and they fill Cyrodiil with Templar tanks.

If you want to save the pride of your E-something, go ahead, say something to change the subject, run around to avoid my points. Or don't, I don't care. Self-granted Professor who granted himself the "Professor of ESO" title but failed to see the viability of 2H in PvE. "But but I said it before Alcast made the video about 2H". Your post: June 6th. Alcast's video: May 19th. Guess you are gonna say "But I hadn't watched that video at June 6th". Then don't claim yourself to be a "professor of ESO"? You were very vocal about how you tested things yourself and didn't follow things Youtubers said, because you are "the Professor of ESO". Yet here you are. Oh well, it's a self-granted title after all, what should I expect? Btw this is my last post. Into the ignore list you go.

Yeah no. DPSing with a resto staff, tanking with non-dk, etc - they are all similar. It's performing the task X with the tool not optimized for that task, when you have an option to use the optimal tool. Period. You're wrong.

Yawn. You obviously don't pve, do you? Lol what? Why would I watch ANY videos when the new update was just released? They obviously don't have hundreds on runs and test on live behind them. And you are basing your opinion on them? Facepalm. The leaderboard is not even full yet, there's no competition, there's no comparing builds yet. It's only when the leaderboards are tight and some people start losing spots there when you can say anything about balance. And "viabilit"? Wut? Define it first. Any weapon is viable if viability is just completing something with it. You are the one giving me the title, I'm just using an analogy with teaching in IRL. You're acting precisely like some of the dumbest students. You're just plain illogical and don't even see how your approach is fundamentally wrong.

And yeah, that's what - the second or third last post in this thread? You just have nothing to say and know you lost the argument a month ago or something. So now you will just eject with your tail between the legs. Good riddance. At least you will stay quiet pretending you are not reading.

Kalante

i would love to see a single stam nb in ps4 that impresses me with out the need of proc sets or heavy armor.

waitwhat

Kalante wrote: »

i would love to see a single stam nb in ps4 that impresses me with out the need of proc sets or heavy armor.

I mean there's that Clever Alch + Sword Singer's cheese build. Does that still work with the crit from stealth bonus?

Gulkrim-mur

I stopped reading at the idea of removing blurr and agony. I wouldnt mind agony because cripple is better but not blurr magblades do use that. Also i have seen alot of stam use blurr its similar to shuffle but costs mag to save stam source

Shadzilla

DrInsanity666 wrote: »

I stopped reading at the idea of removing blurr and agony. I wouldnt mind agony because cripple is better but not blurr magblades do use that. Also i have seen alot of stam use blurr its similar to shuffle but costs mag to save stam source

Regardless of the abilities suggested it is still a good read.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I still have a lot of fun on my stamblade but it is discouraging when I'm only pulling 35k DPS (still finishing my build so it's not up to par) and others, namely sorcs, are pulling twice that lol.

Shadzilla

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

I still have a lot of fun on my stamblade but it is discouraging when I'm only pulling 35k DPS (still finishing my build so it's not up to par) and others, namely sorcs, are pulling twice that lol.

Stamblade single target I can hit 50k sometimes. The single target isn't really that bad, the AOE/cleave damage with a stamblade is horrific though. Considering this game has 95% of fights that include adds, kinda sucks.

Ihatenightblades

This thread is useless. Stam nightblades do great in both pve and pvp..

Pve my buddy does 36k dps on stamblade. He runs 5 spriggan 5 automaton 2 velidreth .

Maybe your gear sucks

Balsagna

So I played from console release until about 3 weeks into imperial city. I picked nightblade specifically because it was a weaker class in hopes of it getting buffed. It's something I do. I figure if I can play the weakest class well then it prepares me for anything.

Long story short, it never got much better while I originally played. I came back 3 weeks ago (CP 164 at that time) and I can honestly say...I have never felt stronger. Scathing mage and magblade is incredibly strong. I haven't been happier to be honest.

Shadzilla

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

This thread is useless. Stam nightblades do great in both pve and pvp..

Pve my buddy does 36k dps on stamblade. He runs 5 spriggan 5 automaton 2 velidreth .

Maybe your gear sucks

This thread has 8 pages of feedback, hardly what I would refer to as useless. As far as PVE dps goes, 36k (im hoping your talking about single target) is beyond horrible. Your buddy should change his gear and rotation.

vpy

Stam NB is garbage.
But I really really love my Magicka NB

You should just change the thread to "Stamina NB" from "NB"

Shardan4968

vpy wrote: »

Stam NB is garbage.

Stamblades are awesome, you just need to know how 2 play.

vpy

Shardan4968 wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

Stam NB is garbage.

Stamblades are awesome, you just need to know how 2 play.

As Magicka I can perms stealth and handle at least 4-6 mobs with ease and easily avoid any one shot mechanics and superb survivability to boot

Let me see you do that

Let me ask you this apart from the slightly higher damage with a target dummy and PVP usage in what ways a Stam NB better than Mag NB ?

Shadzilla

Stamblades are fine in PVP, except for the fact that medium armor needs a massive rework and cloak has never worked properly. Even with those issues stamblades can do fine in PVP if played properly. PVE however is a different aspect. Single target is now closer and more comparable to other top dps classes. AOE/cleave damage, which is 95% of PVE, is minimal at best. Which is the norm for all stam classes. Survivability is the same, 25% mit from blade cloak is decent but still does not compare to a 20-30k fake health button mag toons get. In conclusion, playing any stam toon is just a bad idea. Mag toons pull around the same if not more single target damage (60k+ last patch) while being ranged and away from danger. Mag toons pull much more AOE/cleave damage, and have spammable 20-30k fake health shields they can use whenever they see fit.

First couple weeks there were actually posts from each server on "first stamina dps clear" for vet halls. The fact that the imbalance is so incredibly massive between stamina and magicka dps toons that "first stam dps clear" is actually a legitimate category is pretty sad tbh.

caperon

Stop the *** and learn to play please:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37VncQTzMSE

Top sorc on that fight, 39k by batters92 (one of the best sorc players in the world) single target (Im Elhure on that video). And stamina aoe is not bad anymore. Caltrops + blade cloack + endles hail is enought cleave when you do 20-25% more single target damage.

Have you seen Alcast stream or videos? He is playing stam sorc and doing pretty well. Orphanhelgen from Dragons Quest? Stam DK that destroy the dps meter. Even me, average player at most, played stamDk in vHoF (HM included) and outdpsed any magicka toon. Please, stop the nonsense already, stamina is alive and well in pve, player mentality is the problem.

Btw, blade cloack is more than good for survival. Any situation a magicka character uses shield and survive, you survive with blade cloack, but without spending cooldowns and doing damage at the same time.

Magıc

Stamina is fine, and nightblade both magicka and stamina is being played in high end PVE so there is no reason it can't be played in guilds who are still progressing in raids.

PVP stamblade is meta and magblade is stronger than mag sorc so ya..

Aliyavana

Yah these comments... stamina is fine it's just magika is better therefore less reason to take stamina

Magıc

aliyavana wrote: »

Yah these comments... stamina is fine it's just magika is better therefore less reason to take stamina

Stamina is pulling a *** ton more ST than magicka. Chimaira (current #2 raid guild on PC EU) are currently running 2 stamina builds out of 8 DD's. Doesn't sound like much, but every trial has a lot of trash so of course that's where magicka builds excel, cause they have more AOE damage.

Compare that to last patch where guilds were running 8 mag sorcs or 7 mag sorcs with 1 mDK, it's a lot healthier. Guilds will most likely never take an even number or stamina and magicka characters, because of how the game works and how trials are designed which just benefits magicka in general cause of the amount of trash/AOE involved in boss fights. But now that guilds are swapping out mag builds for stam builds who are pulling 20-25% more ST AND they have MUCH BETTER survivability thanks to the blade cloak buff, the balance is becoming healthier.

Oh, and even the mag classes are much more balanced to a degree. Other than Magplar/Magden, guilds are taking a mix of magsorcs, magblades and mDKs. Magplar is basically in the gutter and Magden is new/hasn't really been tested enough yet.

Shadzilla

caperon wrote: »

Stop the *** and learn to play please:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37VncQTzMSE

Top sorc on that fight, 39k by batters92 (one of the best sorc players in the world) single target (Im Elhure on that video). And stamina aoe is not bad anymore. Caltrops + blade cloack + endles hail is enought cleave when you do 20-25% more single target damage.

Have you seen Alcast stream or videos? He is playing stam sorc and doing pretty well. Orphanhelgen from Dragons Quest? Stam DK that destroy the dps meter. Even me, average player at most, played stamDk in vHoF (HM included) and outdpsed any magicka toon. Please, stop the nonsense already, stamina is alive and well in pve, player mentality is the problem.

Btw, blade cloack is more than good for survival. Any situation a magicka character uses shield and survive, you survive with blade cloack, but without spending cooldowns and doing damage at the same time.

Can you guys do a run with more than 1 or 2 stam builds and post that? I would certainly love to see 8 stam dps toons pull a decent score. Regardless I saw this parse a few days ago when he uploaded it, was good to see. Considering 95% of all PVE content has either AOE or cleave damage involved, I still keep running into just 1 or 2 stam dps around. If stamina is ontop of the world and just completely outperforming magicka right now why are you guys running only a couple stam dps? Are the other 6 dps just stubborn and want to play magicka? Or is it because they do so much more AOE/cleave damage that it would be a slower lower score run without them? Yea I saw Alcast do a rak hm with a 2h, 39k single target. I would have to say he would have pulled higher numbers with dual wield IMO. Hope he was just bored and does not actually think 2h is outperforming dw now.

Artis

Shadzilla wrote: »

Stamblades are fine in PVP, except for the fact that medium armor needs a massive rework and cloak has never worked properly. Even with those issues stamblades can do fine in PVP if played properly. PVE however is a different aspect. Single target is now closer and more comparable to other top dps classes. AOE/cleave damage, which is 95% of PVE, is minimal at best. Which is the norm for all stam classes. Survivability is the same, 25% mit from blade cloak is decent but still does not compare to a 20-30k fake health button mag toons get. In conclusion, playing any stam toon is just a bad idea. Mag toons pull around the same if not more single target damage (60k+ last patch) while being ranged and away from danger. Mag toons pull much more AOE/cleave damage, and have spammable 20-30k fake health shields they can use whenever they see fit.

First couple weeks there were actually posts from each server on "first stamina dps clear" for vet halls. The fact that the imbalance is so incredibly massive between stamina and magicka dps toons that "first stam dps clear" is actually a legitimate category is pretty sad tbh.

Fine? You think so? Well then mNB aren't fine. That's the problem - instead of balancing PvP and then adjusting bosses accordingly they want to balance with no plan. So now we have stam just destroying it in PvP after their DPS was brought up. Stam in general, not just stam NB. Then again, I guess everything is still new and maybe people will figure out some new builds and stam won't be overperforming. I usually don't jump to conclusions until a few months in.

max_only

Stam Sorcs coming in this thread and commenting on our nightblade concerns, go away lol Sorcs need to keep quiet.

Y'all all talking about weapon skill lines "blade cloak", "cleave".

This thread is about nightblades.
Nightblade only skills.

Show me these videos with a nightblade using nightblade class skills doing the same as a sorcerer using sorcerer skills. It's called "rip nightblades" not "rip stam dps".

Tell me one thing that only a nightblade can do that brings irreplaceable utility to a group. Let me know when nightblades aren't the whipping boy.

I still play my nb tank but that's because I don't care about competition and I go in fully aware that I'm 5th best (aka last). New players choosing nightblade don't have any warning that they are setting themselves up for pain.

QuebraRegra

Krayzie wrote: »

I do fine with my nightblade.....

Stam and magicka

Morrowind update

Dungeons, trials, PVP, world bosses, maelstrom

It's called using as many proc sets as possible and being as cheap as you can

working as intended... but we call it "wrobeled"