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Rip Nightblades (assuming they were alive at one point)
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F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭You guys argue over bulls#!t. Both magNB and stamNB are capable of pulling 40k+ deeps on skellie and easily more with raidbuffs. Those "reduced to farm-bots" posts ask for nothing more than well deserved fish-slap in the face.
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Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:
ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS
All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.
Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.
Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.
Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?
Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?
Didn't Gina wright the other day how dks were a tank class? Also anyone with any sense can look at the skill lines and tell which class should excel at which role.
The classes were designed with the 3 roles in mind. Saying otherwise is clearly false. Can you do other things with other classes? Sure. But that doesn't take away the fact certain classes excel at certain roles, more so than the other classes.
Yes, all classes were designed with all 3 roles in mind, that's my point. Yes, a class can excel in a certain role, but it only means that class is the best in that certain role, it doesn't mean "A class = B role".
Beyond the lies of "play like you want" they designed a game where dk is tank, templar is heals, sorcs are dps and nbs go whee wheee whee all the way home.
So they didn't design with anything at all in mind.
You are a nightblade tank.
And I'm constantly being told it's not meta therefore worthless in the forums, meanwhile in game it works incredibly well and no one cares that I'm not a dk. It's not like zos designed nbs to tank they just screwed up making a dps so bad it works better as a tank.
Nightblade tanks aren't meta but they are legit tanks. Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them. If NBs are not designed to tank, they won't be able to tank, like at all. They are just poorly designed so they are less effective
Any class can equip a sword and board and tank, same with equipping a resto and healing. A dunmer nb can equip a 2h and dps. Will any of those do well in a rak hm fight? No. Will they be able to complete the content? No. The main issue is the way the class skills and passives align that make dks tanks, plars healers, mag sorcs dps, and nbs node farmers. Technically yes any class can equip any weapon and do stuff, they just will be very ineffective in a lot of cases. This is why even the developers relate towards certain classes being certain roles when they talk about them. @Artis along with myself have explained this to you multiple times in a variety of ways in this thread. You can link all the youtube videos you like. Just realize that youtubers get paid on how much content they provide. So if people make a tank/heal/dps/1vx/duel/battlegrounds build video on every class/combo possible, just realize that it may not always perform that great, and they get paid on how much content they throw out. If you could keep your arguments related to how nightblades are performing, and away from trash talking other forum members that would be awesome. I do not want to have to see more posts from you that have to be edited by admins for having an obscene amount of salt.
For the 99+ times, this is exactly why there are non-DK tanks and non-Templar healers that are legit tanks (or legit healers) if built correctly, since "Any class can equip a sword and board and tank, same with equipping a resto and healing", and it is exactly why they are ineffective compared to DK tanks and Templar healers in PvE content. They are just more poorly designed so they are less effective in PvE. Because they are less effective, in PvE they can't compete against DK tanks and Templar healers for competitive vet trials score runs, so they have to be happy with vet DLC dungeons for PvE content, or do PvP. It's a fact that Nightblade tanks exist, Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them, they are just less effective compared to DKs and can't compete against DKs in competitive trial runs.
You can throw all the personal attacks at me that you want, not like I care :P
Please keep posting in this thread, you provide a massive amount of comical relief to the entire eso community.0 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.
Hate to brake it to you buddy, but your solo skele parses mean nothing in a trial. You have access to minor berserk in your solo rotation, which everyone gets as a raid buff anyways. Along with your main spammable providing major fracture. I am glad you can do so much damage on a target skeleton, good job on taking advantage of the solo buffs nbs get that mean nothing in trial environments. If you would like to provide some parses from a trial boss, as to how much damage you can pull, that would be a much more appropriate argument. This thread is focused on the poor performance of nbs in end game trials, vma, and pvp. Along with the fact that they have never really been OP at anything except sustain, which never mattered until this patch, which was a convenient time to murder siphoning strikes RIP. They also have always been at the bottom of the dps barrel when it comes to trials.
It does scale less on trials, because they already have a buff built in. The skelly parse is just an exemple. Nightblades are not dead, they just require skill to play. I've touched the new trial the very first time today, and I died, yes, though I'm still learning where the damage comes from and ***. Lets take something like maw for exemple. Hard mode wasnt rough at all, and I pulled 54k on stamblade. Nightblades aren't dead, but you gotta know where your limits are
54k on rak hm? When you can do 65-70k on a mag sorc? There is a reason all the top trials scores have 6-8 mag sorc dps, and 1-2 mag dk dps for buff and chains. It is because they pull much more damage than nightblades. So yes, when your best parse can be beaten by 10k+ with other toons, that means nightblades are dead. Regardless of "where your limits are" you are seriously handicapping not only yourself, but your whole team just due to your class choice. That is pretty much the basis of this thread.
Show me a 65-70k single target magicka sorc parse on Rakkhat hard mode.
The post you are quoting is relating to some guy talking about his 54k rak hm parse. Obviously he is not pulling that single target on rak hm, which is why I related to the cleave parses mag sorcs were pulling.0 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »@Shadzilla I'm pretty sure that its well known that stamina builds are more than fine this patch and they are just as competitive as their magicka counterparts. They just require way more skill to play, to stay alive and to pull higher DPS, which is why magicka is usually preferred. In terms of DPS and sustain however, stamina is outclassing magicka in single target (by quite a nice margin actually). If you're unwilling to admit that all of the above is true then its most likely a L2P issue on your part.
If you are willing to post some parses showing exactly how much more dps stamina toons are pulling, I will gladly admit I have an L2P issue. Until then I will just laugh at yet another attempt at a false accusation with no factual evidence provided.0 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭You guys argue over bulls#!t. Both magNB and stamNB are capable of pulling 40k+ deeps on skellie and easily more with raidbuffs. Those "reduced to farm-bots" posts ask for nothing more than well deserved fish-slap in the face.
This thread focuses on end game trials, dsa, vma, and pvp. Not your 40k skelly parse, which is actually quite low self buffed tbh lol.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Because they are less effective, in PvE they can't compete against DK tanks and Templar healers for competitive vet trials score runs, so they have to be happy with vet DLC dungeons for PvE content, or do PvP. It's a fact that Nightblade tanks exist, Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them, they are just less effective compared to DKs and can't compete against DKs in competitive trial runs.
And that's why DK is a tank class and templar is a healer class. Because if you want to be, for example, the best tank you can be, there's no reason not to do play a DK. And that's a problem that has to be fixed. And that's what people who have actual experience in end game have been telling you. You know, experience, not just basing your opinion on youtube videos.
I already talked about that:hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Oranges are as tasty as apples. People pick oranges less often than apples, because bananas are delicious af in this season.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Are you even reading what you're typing?? Why do people pick DK as often as sorcs to dps then? But not templars who are "on par"? And previous patches are IRRELEVANT to the PRESENT. In present, DK and SORC are most DPS.I am not going to waste more time argue with you. You won't take help.
[snip] You commit logical fallacies all the time. You bring up irrelevant things and a few outliers AS IF they somehow prove the trend wrong.
[snip] Also stop bringing up outdated information. You already embarrassed yourself once about single target DPS. Now you are posting almost half-year old video comparing DPS, which doesn't really prove your general point. On the contrary - it clearly shows that one class outperforms others BY FAR, therefore - that's your DPS class period. Also, again, if you actually participated in real endgame and tried to stay up to date, you'd see tons of other videos, including the ones where DK pulls those 40k as well and outperforms templar. But no, that's too much to expect from you with your conditions - OF COURSE you will make conclusions based on one outdated data point and life doesn't teach you anything. You keep using outdated videos of other people.
[snip] What you've done is a Half-assed reply, not commenting on being called out multiple times on being illogical, not commenting on logical fallacies you committed, not proving still that all class-roles combos are "alive and well" in endgame, ignoring leaderboard, etc. [snip] You think you're the first one who noticed that every class can wear anything? People who play meta went through all this, we all want to be able to do any role with any class. But we admit that it's not the case here. Not as good = not good enough = whoever is better is the X class (x=tank, healer or dps).
[snip]
[edited for flaming]
Take a look at WoW. There are 11 classes, and there are 5 of them that can become tanks: druids, monks, paladins, warriors and death knights. They are called tank classes for that reason: only them can tank. Other classes cannot tank, like at all. In those 5 classes, Druid (Guardian Druid) is the strongest and most effective tank class, does it mean the other 4 tank classes aren't ... tank classes because they are weaker than Druid? No? If you take a look at ESO, people say there's no such thing as a tank class in ESO because every class can become tank. Or you can say that all classes are tank/DPS classes, it's basically the same thing and shares the same meaning. Yes, DK is the most effective class in vet trial tanking, but it means that DK is the best class in vet trial tanking, that's it. Templar is arguably more effective in PvP, and all other classes can tank in end-game content (except for vet trial leaderboard), though being less effective than DK in PvE and Templar in PvP, just like how monks, paladins, warriors and death knights are less effective than Druid. (Same argument goes for sorc's DPS).
I totally agree that non-Templar healers and non-DK tanks need improvements.
DK is the best class for PvE tanking, doesn't mean DK is the only tank class. I will take a Templar tank over a DK tank for PvP anyday.
Templar is the best class for PvE healing, doesn't mean Templar is the only healer class. As long as any other classes can pick up a restro and heal, Templar isn't the only healer class, it's just the best. Real Madrid won the Champions League, does it mean Real Madrid is the only Football Club in the world? No? See. Same thing here. Anyway, funny how many Templar healers were QQing about how "Templar healers will be dead in Morrowind", yet here we are.
Truth be told, I would rather take advices based on experiences of well established players like Alcast, KenaPkk, Gilliam, Deltia, Fengrush than some random guys on the forum. No offense, unless you can prove that you are better than those well known players.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:
ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS
All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.
Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.
Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.
Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?
Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?
Didn't Gina wright the other day how dks were a tank class? Also anyone with any sense can look at the skill lines and tell which class should excel at which role.
The classes were designed with the 3 roles in mind. Saying otherwise is clearly false. Can you do other things with other classes? Sure. But that doesn't take away the fact certain classes excel at certain roles, more so than the other classes.
Yes, all classes were designed with all 3 roles in mind, that's my point. Yes, a class can excel in a certain role, but it only means that class is the best in that certain role, it doesn't mean "A class = B role".
Beyond the lies of "play like you want" they designed a game where dk is tank, templar is heals, sorcs are dps and nbs go whee wheee whee all the way home.
So they didn't design with anything at all in mind.
You are a nightblade tank.
And I'm constantly being told it's not meta therefore worthless in the forums, meanwhile in game it works incredibly well and no one cares that I'm not a dk. It's not like zos designed nbs to tank they just screwed up making a dps so bad it works better as a tank.
Nightblade tanks aren't meta but they are legit tanks. Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them. If NBs are not designed to tank, they won't be able to tank, like at all. They are just poorly designed so they are less effective
Any class can equip a sword and board and tank, same with equipping a resto and healing. A dunmer nb can equip a 2h and dps. Will any of those do well in a rak hm fight? No. Will they be able to complete the content? No. The main issue is the way the class skills and passives align that make dks tanks, plars healers, mag sorcs dps, and nbs node farmers. Technically yes any class can equip any weapon and do stuff, they just will be very ineffective in a lot of cases. This is why even the developers relate towards certain classes being certain roles when they talk about them. @Artis along with myself have explained this to you multiple times in a variety of ways in this thread. You can link all the youtube videos you like. Just realize that youtubers get paid on how much content they provide. So if people make a tank/heal/dps/1vx/duel/battlegrounds build video on every class/combo possible, just realize that it may not always perform that great, and they get paid on how much content they throw out. If you could keep your arguments related to how nightblades are performing, and away from trash talking other forum members that would be awesome. I do not want to have to see more posts from you that have to be edited by admins for having an obscene amount of salt.
For the 99+ times, this is exactly why there are non-DK tanks and non-Templar healers that are legit tanks (or legit healers) if built correctly, since "Any class can equip a sword and board and tank, same with equipping a resto and healing", and it is exactly why they are ineffective compared to DK tanks and Templar healers in PvE content. They are just more poorly designed so they are less effective in PvE. Because they are less effective, in PvE they can't compete against DK tanks and Templar healers for competitive vet trials score runs, so they have to be happy with vet DLC dungeons for PvE content, or do PvP. It's a fact that Nightblade tanks exist, Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them, they are just less effective compared to DKs and can't compete against DKs in competitive trial runs.
You can throw all the personal attacks at me that you want, not like I care :P
Please keep posting in this thread, you provide a massive amount of comical relief to the entire eso community.
I will leave that for the community to decide. :P Btw, that's a nice way of running away from the argument.Edited by hmsdragonfly on June 5, 2017 9:45PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
grumlins✭✭✭Honestly in PVP for me they took a page out of funcoms book and completely nerfed stealth into oblivion. In conan you can be 20 feet behind an enemy who's 4 levels below you in the middle of a cave with no light but candles near the enemies, they have their backs turned to you and you're suddenly spotted from behind like they are owls or something.
In PVP here it's pretty much the same. Why have stealth in your game if it doesn't work in PVP? I know some people don't like stealth in PVP but that doesn't mean there aren't ways of dealing with it without getting ganked and this is from a standpoint of someone who rarely plays pvp for this very reason.
Until they fix that aspect of it there's no reason to play an sNB at all really in PVP.
In PVE it's great fun and a time saver when you are doing events or traveling through caves.
This hate on stealth across the entire MMO genre needs to end.1 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Because they are less effective, in PvE they can't compete against DK tanks and Templar healers for competitive vet trials score runs, so they have to be happy with vet DLC dungeons for PvE content, or do PvP. It's a fact that Nightblade tanks exist, Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them, they are just less effective compared to DKs and can't compete against DKs in competitive trial runs.
And that's why DK is a tank class and templar is a healer class. Because if you want to be, for example, the best tank you can be, there's no reason not to do play a DK. And that's a problem that has to be fixed. And that's what people who have actual experience in end game have been telling you. You know, experience, not just basing your opinion on youtube videos.
I already talked about that:hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Oranges are as tasty as apples. People pick oranges less often than apples, because bananas are delicious af in this season.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Are you even reading what you're typing?? Why do people pick DK as often as sorcs to dps then? But not templars who are "on par"? And previous patches are IRRELEVANT to the PRESENT. In present, DK and SORC are most DPS.I am not going to waste more time argue with you. You won't take help.
[snip] You commit logical fallacies all the time. You bring up irrelevant things and a few outliers AS IF they somehow prove the trend wrong.
[snip] Also stop bringing up outdated information. You already embarrassed yourself once about single target DPS. Now you are posting almost half-year old video comparing DPS, which doesn't really prove your general point. On the contrary - it clearly shows that one class outperforms others BY FAR, therefore - that's your DPS class period. Also, again, if you actually participated in real endgame and tried to stay up to date, you'd see tons of other videos, including the ones where DK pulls those 40k as well and outperforms templar. But no, that's too much to expect from you with your conditions - OF COURSE you will make conclusions based on one outdated data point and life doesn't teach you anything. You keep using outdated videos of other people.
[snip] What you've done is a Half-assed reply, not commenting on being called out multiple times on being illogical, not commenting on logical fallacies you committed, not proving still that all class-roles combos are "alive and well" in endgame, ignoring leaderboard, etc. [snip] You think you're the first one who noticed that every class can wear anything? People who play meta went through all this, we all want to be able to do any role with any class. But we admit that it's not the case here. Not as good = not good enough = whoever is better is the X class (x=tank, healer or dps).
[snip]
[edited for flaming]
Take a look at WoW. There are 11 classes, and there are 5 of them that can become tanks: druids, monks, paladins, warriors and death knights. They are called tank classes for that reason: only them can tank. Other classes cannot tank, like at all. In those 5 classes, Druid (Guardian Druid) is the strongest and most effective tank class, does it mean the other 4 tank classes aren't ... tank classes because they are weaker than Druid? No? If you take a look at ESO, people say there's no such thing as a tank class in ESO because every class can become tank. Or you can say that all classes are tank/DPS classes, it's basically the same thing and shares the same meaning. Yes, DK is the most effective class in vet trial tanking, but it means that DK is the best class in vet trial tanking, that's it. Templar is arguably more effective in PvP, and all other classes can tank in end-game content (except for vet trial leaderboard), though being less effective than DK in PvE and Templar in PvP, just like how monks, paladins, warriors and death knights are less effective than Druid. (Same argument goes for sorc's DPS).
I totally agree that non-Templar healers and non-DK tanks need improvements.
DK is the best class for PvE tanking, doesn't mean DK is the only tank class. I will take a Templar tank over a DK tank for PvP anyday.
Templar is the best class for PvE healing, doesn't mean Templar is the only healer class. As long as any other classes can pick up a restro and heal, Templar isn't the only healer class, it's just the best. Real Madrid won the Champions League, does it mean Real Madrid is the only Football Club in the world? No? See. Same thing here. Anyway, funny how many Templar healers were QQing about how "Templar healers will be dead in Morrowind", yet here we are.
Truth be told, I would rather take advices based on experiences of well established players like Alcast, KenaPkk, Gilliam, Deltia, Fengrush than some random guys on the forum. No offense, unless you can prove that you are better than those well known players.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:
ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS
All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.
Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.
Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.
Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?
Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?
Didn't Gina wright the other day how dks were a tank class? Also anyone with any sense can look at the skill lines and tell which class should excel at which role.
The classes were designed with the 3 roles in mind. Saying otherwise is clearly false. Can you do other things with other classes? Sure. But that doesn't take away the fact certain classes excel at certain roles, more so than the other classes.
Yes, all classes were designed with all 3 roles in mind, that's my point. Yes, a class can excel in a certain role, but it only means that class is the best in that certain role, it doesn't mean "A class = B role".
Beyond the lies of "play like you want" they designed a game where dk is tank, templar is heals, sorcs are dps and nbs go whee wheee whee all the way home.
So they didn't design with anything at all in mind.
You are a nightblade tank.
And I'm constantly being told it's not meta therefore worthless in the forums, meanwhile in game it works incredibly well and no one cares that I'm not a dk. It's not like zos designed nbs to tank they just screwed up making a dps so bad it works better as a tank.
Nightblade tanks aren't meta but they are legit tanks. Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them. If NBs are not designed to tank, they won't be able to tank, like at all. They are just poorly designed so they are less effective
Any class can equip a sword and board and tank, same with equipping a resto and healing. A dunmer nb can equip a 2h and dps. Will any of those do well in a rak hm fight? No. Will they be able to complete the content? No. The main issue is the way the class skills and passives align that make dks tanks, plars healers, mag sorcs dps, and nbs node farmers. Technically yes any class can equip any weapon and do stuff, they just will be very ineffective in a lot of cases. This is why even the developers relate towards certain classes being certain roles when they talk about them. @Artis along with myself have explained this to you multiple times in a variety of ways in this thread. You can link all the youtube videos you like. Just realize that youtubers get paid on how much content they provide. So if people make a tank/heal/dps/1vx/duel/battlegrounds build video on every class/combo possible, just realize that it may not always perform that great, and they get paid on how much content they throw out. If you could keep your arguments related to how nightblades are performing, and away from trash talking other forum members that would be awesome. I do not want to have to see more posts from you that have to be edited by admins for having an obscene amount of salt.
For the 99+ times, this is exactly why there are non-DK tanks and non-Templar healers that are legit tanks (or legit healers) if built correctly, since "Any class can equip a sword and board and tank, same with equipping a resto and healing", and it is exactly why they are ineffective compared to DK tanks and Templar healers in PvE content. They are just more poorly designed so they are less effective in PvE. Because they are less effective, in PvE they can't compete against DK tanks and Templar healers for competitive vet trials score runs, so they have to be happy with vet DLC dungeons for PvE content, or do PvP. It's a fact that Nightblade tanks exist, Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them, they are just less effective compared to DKs and can't compete against DKs in competitive trial runs.
You can throw all the personal attacks at me that you want, not like I care :P
Please keep posting in this thread, you provide a massive amount of comical relief to the entire eso community.
I will leave that for the community to decide. :P Btw, that's a nice way of running away from the argument.
Read this entire thread again. You will see the feedback you get from everyone is quite obvious. All I am saying is I have had numerous people come to me after reading the thread and specifically comment on the mentality/inaccuracy of your posts. It is comical to say the least. @Artis along with myself and other communtiy members have already tried to help you understand basic concepts in the simplest terms possible. Regardless of if you understand any of those concepts, I will not keep explaining them to you. I will simply just ask you to go read the previous responses.1 -
Vulture051✭✭✭What's wrong with Siphoning Strikes? Didn't it used to cut your damage by 20%? I don't see that on the tooltip anymore so that sounds pretty sweet.3 new classes. 3 new spellcasters. Zenimax has forgotten how to make melee classes.0 -
kijima✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.
Well, no I don't believe that's the case at all. You can still play the way you want and enjoy the game.
I've got a sorc tank, and it's a-mazing. Nothing short of brilliant and damn near unkillable in cyro, it allows me to run CoH1 on normal without deaths albeit slow as my dps is low being a supertank, but that's the build right. I wanted a tanky build to allow me to play solo, as i usually don't have the time to run dungeons with other people and I hate letting others down. Nothing worse than doing a 4 man dungeon and getting to the last boss and your DPS, healer or tank buggers off.
I'd suggest that the OP looks at the way you make your build, as that's no key! With the changes in CP passives, you really can play the way you want, if anything it allows you to be even more focused on a particular build style.
Edited by kijima on June 5, 2017 10:51PMBeen here since Feb 2014 - You'd think I'd be half reasonable at this game by now...
A'marta - AD Sorc Tank
Kijima - AD DK Derps
Annure - AD NB Derps
Boom Crash Opera - AD Sorc DPS0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Because they are less effective, in PvE they can't compete against DK tanks and Templar healers for competitive vet trials score runs, so they have to be happy with vet DLC dungeons for PvE content, or do PvP. It's a fact that Nightblade tanks exist, Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them, they are just less effective compared to DKs and can't compete against DKs in competitive trial runs.
And that's why DK is a tank class and templar is a healer class. Because if you want to be, for example, the best tank you can be, there's no reason not to do play a DK. And that's a problem that has to be fixed. And that's what people who have actual experience in end game have been telling you. You know, experience, not just basing your opinion on youtube videos.
I already talked about that:hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Oranges are as tasty as apples. People pick oranges less often than apples, because bananas are delicious af in this season.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Are you even reading what you're typing?? Why do people pick DK as often as sorcs to dps then? But not templars who are "on par"? And previous patches are IRRELEVANT to the PRESENT. In present, DK and SORC are most DPS.I am not going to waste more time argue with you. You won't take help.
[snip] You commit logical fallacies all the time. You bring up irrelevant things and a few outliers AS IF they somehow prove the trend wrong.
[snip] Also stop bringing up outdated information. You already embarrassed yourself once about single target DPS. Now you are posting almost half-year old video comparing DPS, which doesn't really prove your general point. On the contrary - it clearly shows that one class outperforms others BY FAR, therefore - that's your DPS class period. Also, again, if you actually participated in real endgame and tried to stay up to date, you'd see tons of other videos, including the ones where DK pulls those 40k as well and outperforms templar. But no, that's too much to expect from you with your conditions - OF COURSE you will make conclusions based on one outdated data point and life doesn't teach you anything. You keep using outdated videos of other people.
[snip] What you've done is a Half-assed reply, not commenting on being called out multiple times on being illogical, not commenting on logical fallacies you committed, not proving still that all class-roles combos are "alive and well" in endgame, ignoring leaderboard, etc. [snip] You think you're the first one who noticed that every class can wear anything? People who play meta went through all this, we all want to be able to do any role with any class. But we admit that it's not the case here. Not as good = not good enough = whoever is better is the X class (x=tank, healer or dps).
[snip]
[edited for flaming]
Take a look at WoW. There are 11 classes, and there are 5 of them that can become tanks: druids, monks, paladins, warriors and death knights. They are called tank classes for that reason: only them can tank. Other classes cannot tank, like at all. In those 5 classes, Druid (Guardian Druid) is the strongest and most effective tank class, does it mean the other 4 tank classes aren't ... tank classes because they are weaker than Druid? No? If you take a look at ESO, people say there's no such thing as a tank class in ESO because every class can become tank. Or you can say that all classes are tank/DPS classes, it's basically the same thing and shares the same meaning. Yes, DK is the most effective class in vet trial tanking, but it means that DK is the best class in vet trial tanking, that's it. Templar is arguably more effective in PvP, and all other classes can tank in end-game content (except for vet trial leaderboard), though being less effective than DK in PvE and Templar in PvP, just like how monks, paladins, warriors and death knights are less effective than Druid. (Same argument goes for sorc's DPS).
I totally agree that non-Templar healers and non-DK tanks need improvements.
DK is the best class for PvE tanking, doesn't mean DK is the only tank class. I will take a Templar tank over a DK tank for PvP anyday.
Templar is the best class for PvE healing, doesn't mean Templar is the only healer class. As long as any other classes can pick up a restro and heal, Templar isn't the only healer class, it's just the best. Real Madrid won the Champions League, does it mean Real Madrid is the only Football Club in the world? No? See. Same thing here. Anyway, funny how many Templar healers were QQing about how "Templar healers will be dead in Morrowind", yet here we are.
Truth be told, I would rather take advices based on experiences of well established players like Alcast, KenaPkk, Gilliam, Deltia, Fengrush than some random guys on the forum. No offense, unless you can prove that you are better than those well known players.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:
ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS
All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.
Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.
Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.
Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?
Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?
Didn't Gina wright the other day how dks were a tank class? Also anyone with any sense can look at the skill lines and tell which class should excel at which role.
The classes were designed with the 3 roles in mind. Saying otherwise is clearly false. Can you do other things with other classes? Sure. But that doesn't take away the fact certain classes excel at certain roles, more so than the other classes.
Yes, all classes were designed with all 3 roles in mind, that's my point. Yes, a class can excel in a certain role, but it only means that class is the best in that certain role, it doesn't mean "A class = B role".
Beyond the lies of "play like you want" they designed a game where dk is tank, templar is heals, sorcs are dps and nbs go whee wheee whee all the way home.
So they didn't design with anything at all in mind.
You are a nightblade tank.
And I'm constantly being told it's not meta therefore worthless in the forums, meanwhile in game it works incredibly well and no one cares that I'm not a dk. It's not like zos designed nbs to tank they just screwed up making a dps so bad it works better as a tank.
Nightblade tanks aren't meta but they are legit tanks. Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them. If NBs are not designed to tank, they won't be able to tank, like at all. They are just poorly designed so they are less effective
Any class can equip a sword and board and tank, same with equipping a resto and healing. A dunmer nb can equip a 2h and dps. Will any of those do well in a rak hm fight? No. Will they be able to complete the content? No. The main issue is the way the class skills and passives align that make dks tanks, plars healers, mag sorcs dps, and nbs node farmers. Technically yes any class can equip any weapon and do stuff, they just will be very ineffective in a lot of cases. This is why even the developers relate towards certain classes being certain roles when they talk about them. @Artis along with myself have explained this to you multiple times in a variety of ways in this thread. You can link all the youtube videos you like. Just realize that youtubers get paid on how much content they provide. So if people make a tank/heal/dps/1vx/duel/battlegrounds build video on every class/combo possible, just realize that it may not always perform that great, and they get paid on how much content they throw out. If you could keep your arguments related to how nightblades are performing, and away from trash talking other forum members that would be awesome. I do not want to have to see more posts from you that have to be edited by admins for having an obscene amount of salt.
For the 99+ times, this is exactly why there are non-DK tanks and non-Templar healers that are legit tanks (or legit healers) if built correctly, since "Any class can equip a sword and board and tank, same with equipping a resto and healing", and it is exactly why they are ineffective compared to DK tanks and Templar healers in PvE content. They are just more poorly designed so they are less effective in PvE. Because they are less effective, in PvE they can't compete against DK tanks and Templar healers for competitive vet trials score runs, so they have to be happy with vet DLC dungeons for PvE content, or do PvP. It's a fact that Nightblade tanks exist, Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them, they are just less effective compared to DKs and can't compete against DKs in competitive trial runs.
You can throw all the personal attacks at me that you want, not like I care :P
Please keep posting in this thread, you provide a massive amount of comical relief to the entire eso community.
I will leave that for the community to decide. :P Btw, that's a nice way of running away from the argument.
Read this entire thread again. You will see the feedback you get from everyone is quite obvious. All I am saying is I have had numerous people come to me after reading the thread and specifically comment on the mentality/inaccuracy of your posts. It is comical to say the least. @Artis along with myself and other communtiy members have already tried to help you understand basic concepts in the simplest terms possible. Regardless of if you understand any of those concepts, I will not keep explaining them to you. I will simply just ask you to go read the previous responses.
Read this entire thread again and you will see me taking feedback from people about things I said that were incorrect, admitting where I was wrong and altered my points accordingly.
It's something you and Artis are unable to do. You went full personal attack mode without providing any civilized and proper arguments when you were proven to be wrong, because apparently the ego of you two are too big for this forum to handle and that's all you care about.
Community members have the minds of their own, they can see for themselves. You don't represent the community. Neither do I. Neither does Artis. And yes, I would like to suggest you to read previous responses, I am tired of explaining a simple concept to you again and again, but clearly you don't care about any civilized discussion, you just like to insult people, it's your hobby, so I will leave it at that. The community can see for themselves.Edited by hmsdragonfly on June 5, 2017 11:35PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭If a class outperforms all other classes in tanking by so much, that it dominates leaderboards - then it's a class anyone who wants to tank seriously should play. Then it's a tank class. Tanking with another class is possible and might be fun, but it's the same as using bow-2h and light attacks only as a Pve dps just cause it looks fun. Ok maybe a little better.
Also, yawn. your well-known players play meta in trials. and I'm tired of saying no one is talking about pvp yet. You gilliam's nb tank (is it even still there? it was like a year or two ago) was just for fun - tons of aoe damage+heals for a tank. That's all. It's not a "good" build and it would make tanking, say, vmol much more difficult. No idea how you can argue with that.
p.s. no one is asking you to take any opinions. That's the whole point. GET YOUR OWN experience, or don't argue with adults.Edited by Artis on June 6, 2017 1:55AM1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭If a class outperforms all other classes in tanking by so much, that it dominates leaderboards - then it's a class anyone who wants to tank seriously should play. Then it's a tank class. Tanking with another class is possible and might be fun, but it's the same as using bow-2h and light attacks only as a Pve dps just cause it looks fun. Ok maybe a little better.
Also, yawn. your well-known players play meta in trials. and I'm tired of saying no one is talking about pvp yet. You gilliam's nb tank (is it even still there? it was like a year or two ago) was just for fun - tons of aoe damage+heals for a tank. That's all. It's not a "good" build and it would make tanking, say, vmol much more difficult. No idea how you can argue with that.
p.s. no one is asking you to take any opinions. That's the whole point. GET YOUR OWN experience, or don't argue with adults.
Real Madrid beats every other Football Club and won the UEFA Championship. Real Madrid "dominates the leaderboards" aka UEFA Championship. It means Real Madrid is the only Football Club in the world, because it beats everyone else in the UEFA Championship.
That's your argument.
Are you really comparing non-DK tanks to light attack spamming DPS? Can you finish a vet dungeons by spamming light attacks? I would love seeing a group completing a vet dungeon by spamming light attacks. You ignore the fact that non-DK tanks can do vet DLC dungeons, you constantly ignore the fact Templars make the best tanks in PvP. In vet Trial tanking, DK is much better for tanking, that's absolutely correct, but as long every class can pick up S&B and tank vet DLC dungeons and tank PvP, DK isn't the only tank class, what it means is that DK is the best tank class for PvE. DK isn't even the best tank class in PvP.
Just read this:hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Oranges are as tasty as apples. People pick oranges less often than apples, because bananas are delicious af in this season.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Are you even reading what you're typing?? Why do people pick DK as often as sorcs to dps then? But not templars who are "on par"? And previous patches are IRRELEVANT to the PRESENT. In present, DK and SORC are most DPS.I am not going to waste more time argue with you. You won't take help.
[snip] You commit logical fallacies all the time. You bring up irrelevant things and a few outliers AS IF they somehow prove the trend wrong.
[snip] Also stop bringing up outdated information. You already embarrassed yourself once about single target DPS. Now you are posting almost half-year old video comparing DPS, which doesn't really prove your general point. On the contrary - it clearly shows that one class outperforms others BY FAR, therefore - that's your DPS class period. Also, again, if you actually participated in real endgame and tried to stay up to date, you'd see tons of other videos, including the ones where DK pulls those 40k as well and outperforms templar. But no, that's too much to expect from you with your conditions - OF COURSE you will make conclusions based on one outdated data point and life doesn't teach you anything. You keep using outdated videos of other people.
[snip] What you've done is a Half-assed reply, not commenting on being called out multiple times on being illogical, not commenting on logical fallacies you committed, not proving still that all class-roles combos are "alive and well" in endgame, ignoring leaderboard, etc. [snip] You think you're the first one who noticed that every class can wear anything? People who play meta went through all this, we all want to be able to do any role with any class. But we admit that it's not the case here. Not as good = not good enough = whoever is better is the X class (x=tank, healer or dps).
[snip]
[edited for flaming]
Take a look at WoW. There are 11 classes, and there are 5 of them that can become tanks: druids, monks, paladins, warriors and death knights. They are called tank classes for that reason: only them can tank. Other classes cannot tank, like at all. In those 5 classes, Druid (Guardian Druid) is the strongest and most effective tank class, does it mean the other 4 tank classes aren't ... tank classes because they are weaker than Druid? No? If you take a look at ESO, people say there's no such thing as a tank class in ESO because every class can become tank. Or you can say that all classes are tank/DPS classes, it's basically the same thing and shares the same meaning. Yes, DK is the most effective class in vet trial tanking, but it means that DK is the best class in vet trial tanking, that's it. Templar is arguably more effective in PvP, and all other classes can tank in end-game content (except for vet trial leaderboard), though being less effective than DK in PvE and Templar in PvP, just like how monks, paladins, warriors and death knights are less effective than Druid. (Same argument goes for sorc's DPS).
For the 99+ times, seriously, do you read, like at all? I don't argue with the fact that non-DK tanks are much less effective for vet trial tanking, it's a fact and it is absolutely correct. Of course everyone plays meta in vet trial, I play meta in vet trials, you play meta in vet trials, your roommate's uncle plays meta in vet trials, but since those non-DK tanks are running around in vet DLC dungeons and PvP, it means they are also tank classes, just less effective, and they need buffs for vet trial, similar to how Nightblade DDs are needing a buff. Those well established players all say that non-DK tanks exist and need buffs if they want to compete against DK in vet trials, which is precisely my point.
I think other people can see for themselves that who is the adult and who is the kid. An adult knows to admit when he is wrong and adjust his points accordingly, a kid (especially one with ego) never admits his fault and will result to personal attacks when he is short on argument.
P/S: No one says you shouldn't play a DK tank.Don't try to misrepresent my words. Everyone should play a DK tank, because it is the best class for PvE tanking, not the only tank class, but the best.Edited by hmsdragonfly on June 6, 2017 3:43AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
TARAFRAKA✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »If a class outperforms all other classes in tanking by so much, that it dominates leaderboards - then it's a class anyone who wants to tank seriously should play. Then it's a tank class. Tanking with another class is possible and might be fun, but it's the same as using bow-2h and light attacks only as a Pve dps just cause it looks fun. Ok maybe a little better.
Also, yawn. your well-known players play meta in trials. and I'm tired of saying no one is talking about pvp yet. You gilliam's nb tank (is it even still there? it was like a year or two ago) was just for fun - tons of aoe damage+heals for a tank. That's all. It's not a "good" build and it would make tanking, say, vmol much more difficult. No idea how you can argue with that.
p.s. no one is asking you to take any opinions. That's the whole point. GET YOUR OWN experience, or don't argue with adults.
Real Madrid beats every other Football Club and won the UEFA Championship. Real Madrid "dominates the leaderboards" aka UEFA Championship. It means Real Madrid is the only Football Club in the world, because it beats everyone else in the UEFA Championship.
That's your argument.
Are you really comparing non-DK tanks to light attack spamming DPS? Can you finish a vet dungeons by spamming light attacks? I would love seeing a group completing a vet dungeon by spamming light attacks. You ignore the fact that non-DK tanks can do vet DLC dungeons, you constantly ignore the fact Templars make the best tanks in PvP. In vet Trial tanking, DK is much better for tanking, that's absolutely correct, but as long every class can pick up S&B and tank vet DLC dungeons and tank PvP, DK isn't the only tank class, what it means is that DK is the best tank class for PvE. DK isn't even the best tank class in PvP.
Just read this:hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Oranges are as tasty as apples. People pick oranges less often than apples, because bananas are delicious af in this season.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Are you even reading what you're typing?? Why do people pick DK as often as sorcs to dps then? But not templars who are "on par"? And previous patches are IRRELEVANT to the PRESENT. In present, DK and SORC are most DPS.I am not going to waste more time argue with you. You won't take help.
[snip] You commit logical fallacies all the time. You bring up irrelevant things and a few outliers AS IF they somehow prove the trend wrong.
[snip] Also stop bringing up outdated information. You already embarrassed yourself once about single target DPS. Now you are posting almost half-year old video comparing DPS, which doesn't really prove your general point. On the contrary - it clearly shows that one class outperforms others BY FAR, therefore - that's your DPS class period. Also, again, if you actually participated in real endgame and tried to stay up to date, you'd see tons of other videos, including the ones where DK pulls those 40k as well and outperforms templar. But no, that's too much to expect from you with your conditions - OF COURSE you will make conclusions based on one outdated data point and life doesn't teach you anything. You keep using outdated videos of other people.
[snip] What you've done is a Half-assed reply, not commenting on being called out multiple times on being illogical, not commenting on logical fallacies you committed, not proving still that all class-roles combos are "alive and well" in endgame, ignoring leaderboard, etc. [snip] You think you're the first one who noticed that every class can wear anything? People who play meta went through all this, we all want to be able to do any role with any class. But we admit that it's not the case here. Not as good = not good enough = whoever is better is the X class (x=tank, healer or dps).
[snip]
[edited for flaming]
Take a look at WoW. There are 11 classes, and there are 5 of them that can become tanks: druids, monks, paladins, warriors and death knights. They are called tank classes for that reason: only them can tank. Other classes cannot tank, like at all. In those 5 classes, Druid (Guardian Druid) is the strongest and most effective tank class, does it mean the other 4 tank classes aren't ... tank classes because they are weaker than Druid? No? If you take a look at ESO, people say there's no such thing as a tank class in ESO because every class can become tank. Or you can say that all classes are tank/DPS classes, it's basically the same thing and shares the same meaning. Yes, DK is the most effective class in vet trial tanking, but it means that DK is the best class in vet trial tanking, that's it. Templar is arguably more effective in PvP, and all other classes can tank in end-game content (except for vet trial leaderboard), though being less effective than DK in PvE and Templar in PvP, just like how monks, paladins, warriors and death knights are less effective than Druid. (Same argument goes for sorc's DPS).
For the 99+ times, seriously, do you read, like at all? I don't argue with the fact that non-DK tanks are much less effective for vet trial tanking, it's a fact and it is absolutely correct. Of course everyone plays meta in vet trial, I play meta in vet trials, you play meta in vet trials, your roommate's uncle plays meta in vet trials, but since those non-DK tanks are running around in vet DLC dungeons and PvP, it means they are also tank classes, just less effective, and they need buffs for vet trial, similar to how Nightblade DDs are needing a buff. Those well established players all say that non-DK tanks exist and need buffs if they want to compete against DK in vet trials, which is precisely my point.
I think other people can see for themselves that who is the adult and who is the kid. An adult knows to admit when he is wrong and adjust his points accordingly, a kid (especially one with ego) never admits his fault and will result to personal attacks when he is short on argument.
P/S: No one says you shouldn't play a DK tank.Don't try to misrepresent my words. Everyone should play a DK tank, because it is the best class for PvE tanking, not the only tank class, but the best.
quick, someone link the vid of WGT being done with only light attacks!0 -
TARAFRAKA✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »If a class outperforms all other classes in tanking by so much, that it dominates leaderboards - then it's a class anyone who wants to tank seriously should play. Then it's a tank class. Tanking with another class is possible and might be fun, but it's the same as using bow-2h and light attacks only as a Pve dps just cause it looks fun. Ok maybe a little better.
Also, yawn. your well-known players play meta in trials. and I'm tired of saying no one is talking about pvp yet. You gilliam's nb tank (is it even still there? it was like a year or two ago) was just for fun - tons of aoe damage+heals for a tank. That's all. It's not a "good" build and it would make tanking, say, vmol much more difficult. No idea how you can argue with that.
p.s. no one is asking you to take any opinions. That's the whole point. GET YOUR OWN experience, or don't argue with adults.
Real Madrid beats every other Football Club and won the UEFA Championship. Real Madrid "dominates the leaderboards" aka UEFA Championship. It means Real Madrid is the only Football Club in the world, because it beats everyone else in the UEFA Championship.
That's your argument.
Are you really comparing non-DK tanks to light attack spamming DPS? Can you finish a vet dungeons by spamming light attacks? I would love seeing a group completing a vet dungeon by spamming light attacks. You ignore the fact that non-DK tanks can do vet DLC dungeons, you constantly ignore the fact Templars make the best tanks in PvP. In vet Trial tanking, DK is much better for tanking, that's absolutely correct, but as long every class can pick up S&B and tank vet DLC dungeons and tank PvP, DK isn't the only tank class, what it means is that DK is the best tank class for PvE. DK isn't even the best tank class in PvP.
Just read this:hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Oranges are as tasty as apples. People pick oranges less often than apples, because bananas are delicious af in this season.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Are you even reading what you're typing?? Why do people pick DK as often as sorcs to dps then? But not templars who are "on par"? And previous patches are IRRELEVANT to the PRESENT. In present, DK and SORC are most DPS.I am not going to waste more time argue with you. You won't take help.
[snip] You commit logical fallacies all the time. You bring up irrelevant things and a few outliers AS IF they somehow prove the trend wrong.
[snip] Also stop bringing up outdated information. You already embarrassed yourself once about single target DPS. Now you are posting almost half-year old video comparing DPS, which doesn't really prove your general point. On the contrary - it clearly shows that one class outperforms others BY FAR, therefore - that's your DPS class period. Also, again, if you actually participated in real endgame and tried to stay up to date, you'd see tons of other videos, including the ones where DK pulls those 40k as well and outperforms templar. But no, that's too much to expect from you with your conditions - OF COURSE you will make conclusions based on one outdated data point and life doesn't teach you anything. You keep using outdated videos of other people.
[snip] What you've done is a Half-assed reply, not commenting on being called out multiple times on being illogical, not commenting on logical fallacies you committed, not proving still that all class-roles combos are "alive and well" in endgame, ignoring leaderboard, etc. [snip] You think you're the first one who noticed that every class can wear anything? People who play meta went through all this, we all want to be able to do any role with any class. But we admit that it's not the case here. Not as good = not good enough = whoever is better is the X class (x=tank, healer or dps).
[snip]
[edited for flaming]
Take a look at WoW. There are 11 classes, and there are 5 of them that can become tanks: druids, monks, paladins, warriors and death knights. They are called tank classes for that reason: only them can tank. Other classes cannot tank, like at all. In those 5 classes, Druid (Guardian Druid) is the strongest and most effective tank class, does it mean the other 4 tank classes aren't ... tank classes because they are weaker than Druid? No? If you take a look at ESO, people say there's no such thing as a tank class in ESO because every class can become tank. Or you can say that all classes are tank/DPS classes, it's basically the same thing and shares the same meaning. Yes, DK is the most effective class in vet trial tanking, but it means that DK is the best class in vet trial tanking, that's it. Templar is arguably more effective in PvP, and all other classes can tank in end-game content (except for vet trial leaderboard), though being less effective than DK in PvE and Templar in PvP, just like how monks, paladins, warriors and death knights are less effective than Druid. (Same argument goes for sorc's DPS).
For the 99+ times, seriously, do you read, like at all? I don't argue with the fact that non-DK tanks are much less effective for vet trial tanking, it's a fact and it is absolutely correct. Of course everyone plays meta in vet trial, I play meta in vet trials, you play meta in vet trials, your roommate's uncle plays meta in vet trials, but since those non-DK tanks are running around in vet DLC dungeons and PvP, it means they are also tank classes, just less effective, and they need buffs for vet trial, similar to how Nightblade DDs are needing a buff. Those well established players all say that non-DK tanks exist and need buffs if they want to compete against DK in vet trials, which is precisely my point.
I think other people can see for themselves that who is the adult and who is the kid. An adult knows to admit when he is wrong and adjust his points accordingly, a kid (especially one with ego) never admits his fault and will result to personal attacks when he is short on argument.
P/S: No one says you shouldn't play a DK tank.Don't try to misrepresent my words. Everyone should play a DK tank, because it is the best class for PvE tanking, not the only tank class, but the best.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265913/nerf-white-gold-tower-please-video
This was in May 2016 BEFORE CP increased to 630. Defense rests, Case closed. Ruling: You should not comment on endgame related topics for quite sometime.
SEE YA! @RedVyperOfDorneEdited by TARAFRAKA on June 6, 2017 5:49AM0 -
Tremors✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »If a class outperforms all other classes in tanking by so much, that it dominates leaderboards - then it's a class anyone who wants to tank seriously should play. Then it's a tank class. Tanking with another class is possible and might be fun, but it's the same as using bow-2h and light attacks only as a Pve dps just cause it looks fun. Ok maybe a little better.
Also, yawn. your well-known players play meta in trials. and I'm tired of saying no one is talking about pvp yet. You gilliam's nb tank (is it even still there? it was like a year or two ago) was just for fun - tons of aoe damage+heals for a tank. That's all. It's not a "good" build and it would make tanking, say, vmol much more difficult. No idea how you can argue with that.
p.s. no one is asking you to take any opinions. That's the whole point. GET YOUR OWN experience, or don't argue with adults.
Real Madrid beats every other Football Club and won the UEFA Championship. Real Madrid "dominates the leaderboards" aka UEFA Championship. It means Real Madrid is the only Football Club in the world, because it beats everyone else in the UEFA Championship.
That's your argument.
Are you really comparing non-DK tanks to light attack spamming DPS? Can you finish a vet dungeons by spamming light attacks? I would love seeing a group completing a vet dungeon by spamming light attacks. You ignore the fact that non-DK tanks can do vet DLC dungeons, you constantly ignore the fact Templars make the best tanks in PvP. In vet Trial tanking, DK is much better for tanking, that's absolutely correct, but as long every class can pick up S&B and tank vet DLC dungeons and tank PvP, DK isn't the only tank class, what it means is that DK is the best tank class for PvE. DK isn't even the best tank class in PvP.
Just read this:hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Oranges are as tasty as apples. People pick oranges less often than apples, because bananas are delicious af in this season.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Are you even reading what you're typing?? Why do people pick DK as often as sorcs to dps then? But not templars who are "on par"? And previous patches are IRRELEVANT to the PRESENT. In present, DK and SORC are most DPS.I am not going to waste more time argue with you. You won't take help.
[snip] You commit logical fallacies all the time. You bring up irrelevant things and a few outliers AS IF they somehow prove the trend wrong.
[snip] Also stop bringing up outdated information. You already embarrassed yourself once about single target DPS. Now you are posting almost half-year old video comparing DPS, which doesn't really prove your general point. On the contrary - it clearly shows that one class outperforms others BY FAR, therefore - that's your DPS class period. Also, again, if you actually participated in real endgame and tried to stay up to date, you'd see tons of other videos, including the ones where DK pulls those 40k as well and outperforms templar. But no, that's too much to expect from you with your conditions - OF COURSE you will make conclusions based on one outdated data point and life doesn't teach you anything. You keep using outdated videos of other people.
[snip] What you've done is a Half-assed reply, not commenting on being called out multiple times on being illogical, not commenting on logical fallacies you committed, not proving still that all class-roles combos are "alive and well" in endgame, ignoring leaderboard, etc. [snip] You think you're the first one who noticed that every class can wear anything? People who play meta went through all this, we all want to be able to do any role with any class. But we admit that it's not the case here. Not as good = not good enough = whoever is better is the X class (x=tank, healer or dps).
[snip]
[edited for flaming]
Take a look at WoW. There are 11 classes, and there are 5 of them that can become tanks: druids, monks, paladins, warriors and death knights. They are called tank classes for that reason: only them can tank. Other classes cannot tank, like at all. In those 5 classes, Druid (Guardian Druid) is the strongest and most effective tank class, does it mean the other 4 tank classes aren't ... tank classes because they are weaker than Druid? No? If you take a look at ESO, people say there's no such thing as a tank class in ESO because every class can become tank. Or you can say that all classes are tank/DPS classes, it's basically the same thing and shares the same meaning. Yes, DK is the most effective class in vet trial tanking, but it means that DK is the best class in vet trial tanking, that's it. Templar is arguably more effective in PvP, and all other classes can tank in end-game content (except for vet trial leaderboard), though being less effective than DK in PvE and Templar in PvP, just like how monks, paladins, warriors and death knights are less effective than Druid. (Same argument goes for sorc's DPS).
For the 99+ times, seriously, do you read, like at all? I don't argue with the fact that non-DK tanks are much less effective for vet trial tanking, it's a fact and it is absolutely correct. Of course everyone plays meta in vet trial, I play meta in vet trials, you play meta in vet trials, your roommate's uncle plays meta in vet trials, but since those non-DK tanks are running around in vet DLC dungeons and PvP, it means they are also tank classes, just less effective, and they need buffs for vet trial, similar to how Nightblade DDs are needing a buff. Those well established players all say that non-DK tanks exist and need buffs if they want to compete against DK in vet trials, which is precisely my point.
I think other people can see for themselves that who is the adult and who is the kid. An adult knows to admit when he is wrong and adjust his points accordingly, a kid (especially one with ego) never admits his fault and will result to personal attacks when he is short on argument.
P/S: No one says you shouldn't play a DK tank.Don't try to misrepresent my words. Everyone should play a DK tank, because it is the best class for PvE tanking, not the only tank class, but the best.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265913/nerf-white-gold-tower-please-video
This was in May 2016 BEFORE CP increased to 630. Defense rests, Case closed. Ruling: You should not comment on endgame related topics for quite sometime.
SEE YA! @RedVyperOfDorne
Suhhhhh gurlPassionfruit GM - PC NA
Godslayer | Dawnbringer1 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
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That is nothing remotely close to my argument. That would be like Guild X dominates leaderboards. I'm not talking about teams. I'm talking about tools that players on leaderboards use. If hammers are the best for hammering nails - then they are a hammering tool. Yes, you can hammer a nail with a saw or even with a microscope. "And as long as you can hammer a nail with a microscope, microscopes are also a hammering tool". That's your agument.hmsdragonfly wrote: »Real Madrid beats every other Football Club and won the UEFA Championship. Real Madrid "dominates the leaderboards" aka UEFA Championship. It means Real Madrid is the only Football Club in the world, because it beats everyone else in the UEFA Championship.
That's your argument.
Are you really comparing non-DK tanks to light attack spamming DPS? Can you finish a vet dungeons by spamming light attacks? I would love seeing a group completing a vet dungeon by spamming light attacks. You ignore the fact that non-DK tanks can do vet DLC dungeons, you constantly ignore the fact Templars make the best tanks in PvP. In vet Trial tanking, DK is much better for tanking, that's absolutely correct, but as long every class can pick up S&B and tank vet DLC dungeons and tank PvP, DK isn't the only tank class, what it means is that DK is the best tank class for PvE. DK isn't even the best tank class in PvP.
Just read this:
And yes, you can complete a vet dungeon spamming light attacks. I've done it once with 2 dps doing just that when I was tanking with my friend as a healer.
Again, not talking about pvp right now. PvP is not even endgame anymore, there's no ranked competition and it's mostly no cp. No.The fact that anyone can pick up a shield and taunt doesn't change the fact that DK is the best tank for pve. So much better than others, that there's no point in no bringing a DK tank. Doing that is intentionally harming a group. Everyone can tank, yes. But they are outclassed by a DK and therefore DK is a tank class. A tank class doesn't mean it's the only class that can tank. You could also DPS with a 2hander. That doesn't mean that a 2hander is a pve dps weapon/setup. DW +bow is. Even though you can use other weapons.
Classes for players are like weapons for our characters/classes. Being a stam dps with anything but dw+bow is way worse than dw+bow => dw+bow is a pve-dps setup. Yes, you can still use something else and complete content even though part of your weight is being carried by others. The fact that you can use other setups doesn't mean that all of them are pve-dps setups. Same with classes. You can tank as something else. But is too subpar.
And I read that stuff about wow. It's irrelevant to this game completely. Because there they are classes that can only DPS, for example, and they are DPS-classes. They can't tank even if they want to. The terminology of wow doesn't apply here.
And yeah that's right
And you still haven't admitted to committing logical fallacies. And still keep arguing when everyone else in this thread is correcting you.I think other people can see for themselves that who is the adult and who is the kid. An adult knows to admit when he is wrong and adjust his points accordingly, a kid (especially one with ego) never admits his fault and will result to personal attacks when he is short on argument.1 -
my main was a khajit nightblade. it was very fun to play untill i step into cyrodiil. you have 2 choices as a nightblade. go full sneak and gank which i really dont like. or get one shotted when someone sees you. there is no way you can gank a skilled player who knows how to counter it. i am a damage dealer and i am not gonna play in heavy armor it just doesnt fit. Nb's needs more survivability and maybe a less burst damage this is my opinion. heavy armor also need passive: reduce damage done by %10 when 5 pieces of heavy armor equipped.
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1mirg✭✭✭✭✭
I been playing Nightblade since beta, I watched as my dps rose and fell. But to be completely honest here. Nightblade has been treated as the black sheep by the developers for quite awhile. Being a Dps as a NB is essentially dead, everyone who can do AOE damage skills/ spells can out burn any mob faster than any NB skills/ passives can provide. I got nothing on NB tanks as I don't play that. Now with the warden class finally being released. A class which is mostly about AOE's. It's ever more present how bad of a state the NB class really is in at this point of time.Nb's needs more survivability and maybe a less burst damage this is my opinion. heavy armor also need passive: reduce damage done by %10 when 5 pieces of heavy armor equipped.
If the developers want to make NB valuable outside of solo sneak missions. They'll need to give NB's some serious rework to compete with the current DPS meta. Otherwise they might as well just remove the Nightblade class all together.
┬┴┬┴┬┴┬┴┬┴┬┴┤ ⅽ[ː̠̈ː̠̈ː̠̈] ͌ ├┬┴┬┴┬┴┬┴┬┴┬┴3 -
Diggitydug✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.
Hate to brake it to you buddy, but your solo skele parses mean nothing in a trial. You have access to minor berserk in your solo rotation, which everyone gets as a raid buff anyways. Along with your main spammable providing major fracture. I am glad you can do so much damage on a target skeleton, good job on taking advantage of the solo buffs nbs get that mean nothing in trial environments. If you would like to provide some parses from a trial boss, as to how much damage you can pull, that would be a much more appropriate argument. This thread is focused on the poor performance of nbs in end game trials, vma, and pvp. Along with the fact that they have never really been OP at anything except sustain, which never mattered until this patch, which was a convenient time to murder siphoning strikes RIP. They also have always been at the bottom of the dps barrel when it comes to trials.
It does scale less on trials, because they already have a buff built in. The skelly parse is just an exemple. Nightblades are not dead, they just require skill to play. I've touched the new trial the very first time today, and I died, yes, though I'm still learning where the damage comes from and ***. Lets take something like maw for exemple. Hard mode wasnt rough at all, and I pulled 54k on stamblade. Nightblades aren't dead, but you gotta know where your limits are
54k on rak hm? When you can do 65-70k on a mag sorc? There is a reason all the top trials scores have 6-8 mag sorc dps, and 1-2 mag dk dps for buff and chains. It is because they pull much more damage than nightblades. So yes, when your best parse can be beaten by 10k+ with other toons, that means nightblades are dead. Regardless of "where your limits are" you are seriously handicapping not only yourself, but your whole team just due to your class choice. That is pretty much the basis of this thread.
Show me a 65-70k single target magicka sorc parse on Rakkhat hard mode.
The post you are quoting is relating to some guy talking about his 54k rak hm parse. Obviously he is not pulling that single target on rak hm, which is why I related to the cleave parses mag sorcs were pulling.
I just watched Alacast twitch stream vet Maw of Lorkhaj. He pulled 65K on his stam sorcerer:
Sorcs are putting out much more DPS than nightblades.3 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭Diggitydug wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.
Hate to brake it to you buddy, but your solo skele parses mean nothing in a trial. You have access to minor berserk in your solo rotation, which everyone gets as a raid buff anyways. Along with your main spammable providing major fracture. I am glad you can do so much damage on a target skeleton, good job on taking advantage of the solo buffs nbs get that mean nothing in trial environments. If you would like to provide some parses from a trial boss, as to how much damage you can pull, that would be a much more appropriate argument. This thread is focused on the poor performance of nbs in end game trials, vma, and pvp. Along with the fact that they have never really been OP at anything except sustain, which never mattered until this patch, which was a convenient time to murder siphoning strikes RIP. They also have always been at the bottom of the dps barrel when it comes to trials.
It does scale less on trials, because they already have a buff built in. The skelly parse is just an exemple. Nightblades are not dead, they just require skill to play. I've touched the new trial the very first time today, and I died, yes, though I'm still learning where the damage comes from and ***. Lets take something like maw for exemple. Hard mode wasnt rough at all, and I pulled 54k on stamblade. Nightblades aren't dead, but you gotta know where your limits are
54k on rak hm? When you can do 65-70k on a mag sorc? There is a reason all the top trials scores have 6-8 mag sorc dps, and 1-2 mag dk dps for buff and chains. It is because they pull much more damage than nightblades. So yes, when your best parse can be beaten by 10k+ with other toons, that means nightblades are dead. Regardless of "where your limits are" you are seriously handicapping not only yourself, but your whole team just due to your class choice. That is pretty much the basis of this thread.
Show me a 65-70k single target magicka sorc parse on Rakkhat hard mode.
The post you are quoting is relating to some guy talking about his 54k rak hm parse. Obviously he is not pulling that single target on rak hm, which is why I related to the cleave parses mag sorcs were pulling.
I just watched Alacast twitch stream vet Maw of Lorkhaj. He pulled 65K on his stam sorcerer:
Sorcs are putting out much more DPS than nightblades.
I do not think there has ever been a time in the last 3 years were sorcs where not pulling more dps than nbs. Wouldn't mind seeing a shift in the scales.Edited by Shadzilla on June 11, 2017 12:20AM5 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
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Funny...I've got a sorc tank, and it's a-mazing.
it allows me to run CoH1 on normal without deaths- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
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max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vulture051 wrote: »What's wrong with Siphoning Strikes? Didn't it used to cut your damage by 20%? I don't see that on the tooltip anymore so that sounds pretty sweet.
The 5th post in this thread is a video explaining it, its on the first page...... you question had already been answered from the get go.
That was the stamina morph that became a toggle called Leeching Strikes. Not many people used it.
The magika morph was Siphoning Attacks and it regenerated both your resources.
The new update makes it so you have to have a perfect rotation to even refund the cost of casting it, let alone receive gains. Also it punishes for recasting early. The stamina morph costing stamina to "gain" stamina and magika morph causing magic to "gain" magic means you can no longer use your underused pool to help your main pool.
Other similar skills like Dark Deal got a slap on the wrist compared to what Nbs got.Edited by max_only on June 11, 2017 11:57PM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »If a class outperforms all other classes in tanking by so much, that it dominates leaderboards - then it's a class anyone who wants to tank seriously should play. Then it's a tank class. Tanking with another class is possible and might be fun, but it's the same as using bow-2h and light attacks only as a Pve dps just cause it looks fun. Ok maybe a little better.
Also, yawn. your well-known players play meta in trials. and I'm tired of saying no one is talking about pvp yet. You gilliam's nb tank (is it even still there? it was like a year or two ago) was just for fun - tons of aoe damage+heals for a tank. That's all. It's not a "good" build and it would make tanking, say, vmol much more difficult. No idea how you can argue with that.
p.s. no one is asking you to take any opinions. That's the whole point. GET YOUR OWN experience, or don't argue with adults.
Real Madrid beats every other Football Club and won the UEFA Championship. Real Madrid "dominates the leaderboards" aka UEFA Championship. It means Real Madrid is the only Football Club in the world, because it beats everyone else in the UEFA Championship.
That's your argument.
Are you really comparing non-DK tanks to light attack spamming DPS? Can you finish a vet dungeons by spamming light attacks? I would love seeing a group completing a vet dungeon by spamming light attacks. You ignore the fact that non-DK tanks can do vet DLC dungeons, you constantly ignore the fact Templars make the best tanks in PvP. In vet Trial tanking, DK is much better for tanking, that's absolutely correct, but as long every class can pick up S&B and tank vet DLC dungeons and tank PvP, DK isn't the only tank class, what it means is that DK is the best tank class for PvE. DK isn't even the best tank class in PvP.
Just read this:hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Oranges are as tasty as apples. People pick oranges less often than apples, because bananas are delicious af in this season.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Are you even reading what you're typing?? Why do people pick DK as often as sorcs to dps then? But not templars who are "on par"? And previous patches are IRRELEVANT to the PRESENT. In present, DK and SORC are most DPS.I am not going to waste more time argue with you. You won't take help.
[snip] You commit logical fallacies all the time. You bring up irrelevant things and a few outliers AS IF they somehow prove the trend wrong.
[snip] Also stop bringing up outdated information. You already embarrassed yourself once about single target DPS. Now you are posting almost half-year old video comparing DPS, which doesn't really prove your general point. On the contrary - it clearly shows that one class outperforms others BY FAR, therefore - that's your DPS class period. Also, again, if you actually participated in real endgame and tried to stay up to date, you'd see tons of other videos, including the ones where DK pulls those 40k as well and outperforms templar. But no, that's too much to expect from you with your conditions - OF COURSE you will make conclusions based on one outdated data point and life doesn't teach you anything. You keep using outdated videos of other people.
[snip] What you've done is a Half-assed reply, not commenting on being called out multiple times on being illogical, not commenting on logical fallacies you committed, not proving still that all class-roles combos are "alive and well" in endgame, ignoring leaderboard, etc. [snip] You think you're the first one who noticed that every class can wear anything? People who play meta went through all this, we all want to be able to do any role with any class. But we admit that it's not the case here. Not as good = not good enough = whoever is better is the X class (x=tank, healer or dps).
[snip]
[edited for flaming]
Take a look at WoW. There are 11 classes, and there are 5 of them that can become tanks: druids, monks, paladins, warriors and death knights. They are called tank classes for that reason: only them can tank. Other classes cannot tank, like at all. In those 5 classes, Druid (Guardian Druid) is the strongest and most effective tank class, does it mean the other 4 tank classes aren't ... tank classes because they are weaker than Druid? No? If you take a look at ESO, people say there's no such thing as a tank class in ESO because every class can become tank. Or you can say that all classes are tank/DPS classes, it's basically the same thing and shares the same meaning. Yes, DK is the most effective class in vet trial tanking, but it means that DK is the best class in vet trial tanking, that's it. Templar is arguably more effective in PvP, and all other classes can tank in end-game content (except for vet trial leaderboard), though being less effective than DK in PvE and Templar in PvP, just like how monks, paladins, warriors and death knights are less effective than Druid. (Same argument goes for sorc's DPS).
For the 99+ times, seriously, do you read, like at all? I don't argue with the fact that non-DK tanks are much less effective for vet trial tanking, it's a fact and it is absolutely correct. Of course everyone plays meta in vet trial, I play meta in vet trials, you play meta in vet trials, your roommate's uncle plays meta in vet trials, but since those non-DK tanks are running around in vet DLC dungeons and PvP, it means they are also tank classes, just less effective, and they need buffs for vet trial, similar to how Nightblade DDs are needing a buff. Those well established players all say that non-DK tanks exist and need buffs if they want to compete against DK in vet trials, which is precisely my point.
I think other people can see for themselves that who is the adult and who is the kid. An adult knows to admit when he is wrong and adjust his points accordingly, a kid (especially one with ego) never admits his fault and will result to personal attacks when he is short on argument.
P/S: No one says you shouldn't play a DK tank.Don't try to misrepresent my words. Everyone should play a DK tank, because it is the best class for PvE tanking, not the only tank class, but the best.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265913/nerf-white-gold-tower-please-video
This was in May 2016 BEFORE CP increased to 630. Defense rests, Case closed. Ruling: You should not comment on endgame related topics for quite sometime.
SEE YA! @RedVyperOfDorne
SENSEI @RedVyperOfDorne TEACH ME YOUR WAY
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
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That is nothing remotely close to my argument. That would be like Guild X dominates leaderboards. I'm not talking about teams. I'm talking about tools that players on leaderboards use. If hammers are the best for hammering nails - then they are a hammering tool. Yes, you can hammer a nail with a saw or even with a microscope. "And as long as you can hammer a nail with a microscope, microscopes are also a hammering tool". That's your agument.hmsdragonfly wrote: »Real Madrid beats every other Football Club and won the UEFA Championship. Real Madrid "dominates the leaderboards" aka UEFA Championship. It means Real Madrid is the only Football Club in the world, because it beats everyone else in the UEFA Championship.
That's your argument.
Are you really comparing non-DK tanks to light attack spamming DPS? Can you finish a vet dungeons by spamming light attacks? I would love seeing a group completing a vet dungeon by spamming light attacks. You ignore the fact that non-DK tanks can do vet DLC dungeons, you constantly ignore the fact Templars make the best tanks in PvP. In vet Trial tanking, DK is much better for tanking, that's absolutely correct, but as long every class can pick up S&B and tank vet DLC dungeons and tank PvP, DK isn't the only tank class, what it means is that DK is the best tank class for PvE. DK isn't even the best tank class in PvP.
Just read this:
And yes, you can complete a vet dungeon spamming light attacks. I've done it once with 2 dps doing just that when I was tanking with my friend as a healer.
Again, not talking about pvp right now. PvP is not even endgame anymore, there's no ranked competition and it's mostly no cp. No.The fact that anyone can pick up a shield and taunt doesn't change the fact that DK is the best tank for pve. So much better than others, that there's no point in no bringing a DK tank. Doing that is intentionally harming a group. Everyone can tank, yes. But they are outclassed by a DK and therefore DK is a tank class. A tank class doesn't mean it's the only class that can tank. You could also DPS with a 2hander. That doesn't mean that a 2hander is a pve dps weapon/setup. DW +bow is. Even though you can use other weapons.
Classes for players are like weapons for our characters/classes. Being a stam dps with anything but dw+bow is way worse than dw+bow => dw+bow is a pve-dps setup. Yes, you can still use something else and complete content even though part of your weight is being carried by others. The fact that you can use other setups doesn't mean that all of them are pve-dps setups. Same with classes. You can tank as something else. But is too subpar.
And I read that stuff about wow. It's irrelevant to this game completely. Because there they are classes that can only DPS, for example, and they are DPS-classes. They can't tank even if they want to. The terminology of wow doesn't apply here.
And yeah that's right
And you still haven't admitted to committing logical fallacies. And still keep arguing when everyone else in this thread is correcting you.I think other people can see for themselves that who is the adult and who is the kid. An adult knows to admit when he is wrong and adjust his points accordingly, a kid (especially one with ego) never admits his fault and will result to personal attacks when he is short on argument.
I think I just found a gold mine lol. This comment of yours is full of flaws and I will mine every single gram of gold from it.
- No, in this case, we are comparing the effectiveness of all classes in tanking. So, classes are competing teams, and Sword and Board is the tool. All classes use the same tool to tank: Sword and Board. Sure, you can tank with a bow, and tanking with a bow is similar to hammering a nail with an oven.
- For the Love of God, I said again for the 99+ time, of course DK is the best tank for PvE. How many times do I have to repeat this? And before you say "But if DK is the best tank so why do we call non-DK tanks "tanks"?". Like how we call a Magplar DPS or a StamDK DPS "DPS". Or we are not allowed to call a Magplar DPS or a StamDK DPS "DPS"?
- Non-DK tanks are like non-Magsorc DPS last patch. They can be tanks, it's just that they are much less effective so no one takes them to vet trials. Just like no one took non-Magsorc DPS last patch.
- Did I just see you say you "Stam DPS"? But according to your logic, Stam DPS aren't DPS, because in PvE Magsorc DPS is so effective, Stam DDs are subpar, doing damage with a stam build is like hammering a nail with an oven. It's your logic, not mine. So, make up your mind. Are Stam DPS "DPS"?
- Did I just see you say something about Two-Handed isn't PvE DPS setup? Alcast said Two-Handed is viable PvE DPS setup at this patch. With his track records, I will take Alcast's advice over some random dude on the forum. Sorry, for the hard truth.
- PvP is not end-game? So, screw the PvP community? I don't care about your definition of end-game, PvP has always been a part of ESO end-game since launch, and the PvP community has always treated it as such. It's a fact. Btw there's a ranked competition, it's called Emperorship. There's a PvP Leaderboard, and the higher you are on the leaderboard, the better the rewards you get at the end of the campaign. Not to mention PvP itself is already competitive.
- The WoW stuffs are completely relevant here. In WoW, only some classes can become tanks, other classes can't tank, like at all. While here, all classes can pick up sword and board (tanking tool) and tank, while some are much more effective than others, just like how all classes can pick up Dual Wield/Bow and become Stam DDs, and exactly like how all classes can pick up the destro staff and become Mag DDs.
- Funny you are talking about "logical fallacies" yet according to you non-DK tanks are not real tanks but non-Magsorc DDs are still DDs. The only two people who are against my point of "You can fill in any role as any class, but certain classes are much more suited for certain roles" are you and Shadzilla. So much for "everyone".
Hope I didn't miss anything.
Just answer this question: Can a Magplar be a DPS?
Yes? No? Simple question.
If you avoid answering that question, I will take it as a "Yes".Edited by hmsdragonfly on June 11, 2017 4:10AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vulture051 wrote: »What's wrong with Siphoning Strikes? Didn't it used to cut your damage by 20%? I don't see that on the tooltip anymore so that sounds pretty sweet.
The new update makes it so you have to have a perfect rotation to even refund the cost of casting it, let alone receive gains. Also it punishes for recasting early.
This isn't true at all. I can only speak from mag nb perspective but even without a single auto attack, siphoning attacks restore at the end of the buffs gives back 10% of my max magicka. It's a strong skill.
When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vulture051 wrote: »What's wrong with Siphoning Strikes? Didn't it used to cut your damage by 20%? I don't see that on the tooltip anymore so that sounds pretty sweet.
The new update makes it so you have to have a perfect rotation to even refund the cost of casting it, let alone receive gains. Also it punishes for recasting early.
This isn't true at all. I can only speak from mag nb perspective but even without a single auto attack, siphoning attacks restore at the end of the buffs gives back 10% of my max magicka. It's a strong skill.
Do you get any stamina back for your troubles?
You spend magica to gain magica. Where as Dark Deal you eat one pool to gain the other.
As a mag Nb did you really need yet another HOT? We have so many already.
I play magnb too. Siphoning Attacks has been nerfed not buffed. Where is my stamina regain for blocking and dodging coming from? Not SA. I have 2-3 HoTs up at any given time already. Heals from SA = Not necessary.
#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
Pops_ND_Irish✭✭✭✭✭I cant one hit no more, so im taking my controller and going home.
Bye
Oh send mats and gold0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thankfully, NBs (stam in particular) didn't end up as bad overall as first thought with Morrowind. That being said, NB still requires more effort to perform at a high level (especially PvP) in comparison to the other classes.0