Rip Nightblades (assuming they were alive at one point)

hmsdragonfly · May 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?

I'm sorry sir, you must be corrected on a vast number of levels. DKs are meta tanks, templars are meta healers. This is a well known fact among the eso community. What meta means is they are the best, you cannot possibly do better with another class. The class abilities and passives for dks/templars, make them the best possible tanks/healers in the game. That is a fact that cannot be denied. With that simple fact, the general logic would be that sorcs and nbs should be meta dps. This is not the case. First off, stamina characters pull less single target damage. Stamina toons also pull maybe 70% of the AOE damage mag toons do, along with a much smaller cleave damage output. Mag sorcs are meta dps, the best possible dps that can be achieved. Dks do not pull more single target than sorcs do. Sorcs can pull around 56k+ single target, WHILE RANGED WITH SHIELDS SLOTTED, not even melee! Dks, along with stam toons, are forced to be melee yet pull lower single target damage. You cannot show me a dk parse with more than 56k single target on a vet trial boss, its just not possible. Where are nightblades? Faaaaaar behind, that is what this thread is about.

Recap :

Templars = meta healers

Dks = meta tanks

Mag sorcs = meta dps

Nightblades = meta node/writ farmers

While zos does give each class some sort of tank/heal/dps ability or passive mixture, it really does not matter at the end game level. If you want any sort of success in competitive trials, you have to run certain classes. The issue that dks pull much more damage than nightblades, while simultaneously being meta tanks, is just another zos balancing issue. These facts are proven by some of the best players in the world, that dedicate a massive amount of time theory crafting/testing to find the best possible output for certain builds. I am not one of those people, but I do know a few of them

So what? Meta has nothing to do with what i am talking about. DKs make the best tanks, sure, but it doesn't mean ZOS's vision is that only DKs can tank. ZOS's vision is that every class can fill in every role, sure depending on the meta, a class can be ahead of others in a certain role, but it doesn't mean ZOS want that class is the only one viable for that role. Under-performing classes need buffs. That's it. Nightblade needs buff in DPS, healing and tanking.

So,
"Templars = meta healers
Dks = meta tanks
Mag sorcs = meta dps
Nightblades = meta node/writ farmers"

-> this is correct in this current meta. I might not be correct in future meta, and hasn't been always correct in previous metas.

"ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS"

-> this is incorrect.

Get it?

DKs do pull more single target than Sorc, proof: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3960855/#Comment_3960855

Your "proof" is incorrect. There are many single target parses from mag sorcs with 55k+. The parses in that thread don't even breach 50... If you would kindly let me know where I can see a dk parse beating 55k that would be fantastic, until then you stand corrected sir.

You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.

Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2

Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.

Shadzilla · May 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?

I'm sorry sir, you must be corrected on a vast number of levels. DKs are meta tanks, templars are meta healers. This is a well known fact among the eso community. What meta means is they are the best, you cannot possibly do better with another class. The class abilities and passives for dks/templars, make them the best possible tanks/healers in the game. That is a fact that cannot be denied. With that simple fact, the general logic would be that sorcs and nbs should be meta dps. This is not the case. First off, stamina characters pull less single target damage. Stamina toons also pull maybe 70% of the AOE damage mag toons do, along with a much smaller cleave damage output. Mag sorcs are meta dps, the best possible dps that can be achieved. Dks do not pull more single target than sorcs do. Sorcs can pull around 56k+ single target, WHILE RANGED WITH SHIELDS SLOTTED, not even melee! Dks, along with stam toons, are forced to be melee yet pull lower single target damage. You cannot show me a dk parse with more than 56k single target on a vet trial boss, its just not possible. Where are nightblades? Faaaaaar behind, that is what this thread is about.

Recap :

Templars = meta healers

Dks = meta tanks

Mag sorcs = meta dps

Nightblades = meta node/writ farmers

While zos does give each class some sort of tank/heal/dps ability or passive mixture, it really does not matter at the end game level. If you want any sort of success in competitive trials, you have to run certain classes. The issue that dks pull much more damage than nightblades, while simultaneously being meta tanks, is just another zos balancing issue. These facts are proven by some of the best players in the world, that dedicate a massive amount of time theory crafting/testing to find the best possible output for certain builds. I am not one of those people, but I do know a few of them

So what? Meta has nothing to do with what i am talking about. DKs make the best tanks, sure, but it doesn't mean ZOS's vision is that only DKs can tank. ZOS's vision is that every class can fill in every role, sure depending on the meta, a class can be ahead of others in a certain role, but it doesn't mean ZOS want that class is the only one viable for that role. Under-performing classes need buffs. That's it. Nightblade needs buff in DPS, healing and tanking.

So,
"Templars = meta healers
Dks = meta tanks
Mag sorcs = meta dps
Nightblades = meta node/writ farmers"

-> this is correct in this current meta. I might not be correct in future meta, and hasn't been always correct in previous metas.

"ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS"

-> this is incorrect.

Get it?

DKs do pull more single target than Sorc, proof: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3960855/#Comment_3960855

Your "proof" is incorrect. There are many single target parses from mag sorcs with 55k+. The parses in that thread don't even breach 50... If you would kindly let me know where I can see a dk parse beating 55k that would be fantastic, until then you stand corrected sir.

You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.

Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2

Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.

Do you know who you are referring to in your incorrect point? Yolo is a great player, arguably one of the best in the world. Let me go ahead and put you in your place right now. "Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK." I'm going to go ahead and post you the exact same player you are referring to, but instead on a mag sorc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUMzwGC8kM8&t=57s

Here you see the exact same player, pulling 55k+ single target... On a mag sorc instead of a dk. Therefore your feeble argument that dks can pull more single target than mag sorcs is completely nullified. Considering you have just been proven wrong, I would suggest doing some research before stating incorrect facts on subjects you don't have a clue about. Move along young padawan apprentice.

hmsdragonfly · May 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?

I'm sorry sir, you must be corrected on a vast number of levels. DKs are meta tanks, templars are meta healers. This is a well known fact among the eso community. What meta means is they are the best, you cannot possibly do better with another class. The class abilities and passives for dks/templars, make them the best possible tanks/healers in the game. That is a fact that cannot be denied. With that simple fact, the general logic would be that sorcs and nbs should be meta dps. This is not the case. First off, stamina characters pull less single target damage. Stamina toons also pull maybe 70% of the AOE damage mag toons do, along with a much smaller cleave damage output. Mag sorcs are meta dps, the best possible dps that can be achieved. Dks do not pull more single target than sorcs do. Sorcs can pull around 56k+ single target, WHILE RANGED WITH SHIELDS SLOTTED, not even melee! Dks, along with stam toons, are forced to be melee yet pull lower single target damage. You cannot show me a dk parse with more than 56k single target on a vet trial boss, its just not possible. Where are nightblades? Faaaaaar behind, that is what this thread is about.

Recap :

Templars = meta healers

Dks = meta tanks

Mag sorcs = meta dps

Nightblades = meta node/writ farmers

While zos does give each class some sort of tank/heal/dps ability or passive mixture, it really does not matter at the end game level. If you want any sort of success in competitive trials, you have to run certain classes. The issue that dks pull much more damage than nightblades, while simultaneously being meta tanks, is just another zos balancing issue. These facts are proven by some of the best players in the world, that dedicate a massive amount of time theory crafting/testing to find the best possible output for certain builds. I am not one of those people, but I do know a few of them

So what? Meta has nothing to do with what i am talking about. DKs make the best tanks, sure, but it doesn't mean ZOS's vision is that only DKs can tank. ZOS's vision is that every class can fill in every role, sure depending on the meta, a class can be ahead of others in a certain role, but it doesn't mean ZOS want that class is the only one viable for that role. Under-performing classes need buffs. That's it. Nightblade needs buff in DPS, healing and tanking.

So,
"Templars = meta healers
Dks = meta tanks
Mag sorcs = meta dps
Nightblades = meta node/writ farmers"

-> this is correct in this current meta. I might not be correct in future meta, and hasn't been always correct in previous metas.

"ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS"

-> this is incorrect.

Get it?

DKs do pull more single target than Sorc, proof: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3960855/#Comment_3960855

Your "proof" is incorrect. There are many single target parses from mag sorcs with 55k+. The parses in that thread don't even breach 50... If you would kindly let me know where I can see a dk parse beating 55k that would be fantastic, until then you stand corrected sir.

You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.

Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2

Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.

Do you know who you are referring to in your incorrect point? Yolo is a great player, arguably one of the best in the world. Let me go ahead and put you in your place right now. "Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK." I'm going to go ahead and post you the exact same player you are referring to, but instead on a mag sorc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUMzwGC8kM8&t=57s

Here you see the exact same player, pulling 55k+ single target... On a mag sorc instead of a dk. Therefore your feeble argument that dks can pull more single target than mag sorcs is completely nullified. Considering you have just been proven wrong, I would suggest doing some research before stating incorrect facts on subjects you don't have a clue about. Move along young padawan apprentice.

Oh he broke his sorc record last month? That's new. Wonder if he can break his DK's record, though.

This is the same fight, February, 44.8k single target.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oasQBA65JHE

And no, I didn't make up "incorrect facts" lmao, it was believed widely in the community that a DK could pull more single target DPS than a sorc because in March 2017, Yolo's DK pulled more single target than his Sorc, everyone (not just me) came to believe that DK pulled more DPS than a sorc, because all the data at that time proved that. My data is simply 2 month outdated.

You are right, let me rephrase my statement then. It used to be believed that a DK could pull more single target DPS than a sorc, now it is questionable.

But other than that, my points still stand correctly. There's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content. Since the buff to sorc it has been a sorc meta, but it's just the meta. You disagree? No? Then move along.

Glamdring · May 2017

And to all you newbies that 4 weeks ago said: dont worry its just the 1st week of pts things will change. *** no they wont. stamblades will still be the worst class for any groupcontent and now we got the stealthdamage nerf and the bownerf aswell, so now we cant even gank porperly which was the last thing we could do in eso. Thanks so *** much ZoS for totally ignoring and destroying a class i spent 2 years playing every day.

Knootewoot · May 2017

It's funny though. Last year or so or a bit longer all you saw was threads:

Nerf NB
NB is OP
Nerf cloak
Nerf fear

They where of course referring to stamblades who could insta kill from stealth with all the procsets and ridiculous stamina damage.

ie, it was not the nightblade but the stamina damage output (compared to magicka) and the procsets (which are dumb) from stealth.

Nerf of top of another nerf came. Magblade is barely played anymore (I still play a melee magblade in LA). I do think stamblades in PvP still hold their own if the gank, but for group it's useless. For PvE I prefer magblade for survivability.

But every other class outheals, outdamage, outsnares any form of NB.

And now we only have topics like: RIP NB, NB is unplayable

FoulSnowpaw · May 2017

NB can pull large amounts of mobs without even falling near death given their siphon abilities.
NB have high ultimate gains and burst damage.
NB has siphons which keeps them alive independently for certain WB and ALL public dungeons.
NB easily wins pvp with invis, burst damage, ultimate gain, stun, crit, and heal.
NB has fear which typically is undodgeable and interrupts everything.

I myself have magicka NB and he works as fine as any other class. Get proper gear.

People and L2P issues. If it's merely playstyle you find annoying compared to other classes, then NB is not for you.

Artis · May 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.

Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2

Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.

This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.

Kay1 · May 2017

They died with One Tamriel.

hmsdragonfly · May 2017

Artis wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.

Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2

Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.

This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.

Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.

Artis · May 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.

Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2

Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.

This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.

Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.

Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.

You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.

That's all.

Rex-Umbra · May 2017

Siphoning attacks need a buff and shadow image needs a huge buff.

Izaki · May 2017

#BuffNightblades

Publius_Scipio · May 2017

Interesting times for NBs. Many say they really don't match up to the other classes currently (I am more in this camp), but others are saying come Morrowind NBs (stamina in particular) will be one of the best PvP classes.

Only way to find out is to wait for Morrowind to go live.

ANGEL_BtVS · May 2017

FoulSnowpaw wrote: »

NB can pull large amounts of mobs without even falling near death given their siphon abilities.
NB have high ultimate gains and burst damage.
NB has siphons which keeps them alive independently for certain WB and ALL public dungeons.
NB easily wins pvp with invis, burst damage, ultimate gain, stun, crit, and heal.
NB has fear which typically is undodgeable and interrupts everything.

I myself have magicka NB and he works as fine as any other class. Get proper gear.

People and L2P issues. If it's merely playstyle you find annoying compared to other classes, then NB is not for you.

Wow, that's awesome. Except where you left off the part that NBs are still the only class that is persona non grata when it comes to end-game trials.

Shadzilla · May 2017

Artis wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.

Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2

Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.

This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.

Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.

Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.

You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.

That's all.

Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.

Artis · May 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.

Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2

Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.

This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.

Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.

Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.

You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.

That's all.

Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.

I just don't understand why some people argue. No knowledge of their own AND no logical thinking

I really think they just come to troll and be all tough like "Know your place, you NB".

Balamoor · May 2017

grim_tactics wrote: »

Has anyone posted a crying baby gif?

If not, please do.

Didn't read any of this thread because I already know what it is.

Play a NB not worried, won't effect my game or my fun...a lot of crying and hand wringing over nothing.

waitwhat · May 2017

Balamoor wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

Has anyone posted a crying baby gif?

If not, please do.

Didn't read any of this thread because I already know what it is.

grim_tactics wrote: »

Has anyone posted a crying baby gif?

If not, please do.

Didn't read any of this thread because I already know what it is.

Play a NB not worried, won't effect my game or my fun...a lot of crying and hand wringing over nothing.

@Balamoor

Irrelevant when too many others' fun is affected. Glad to hear you're ok, meanwhile the rest of us aren't and have detailed plenty of reasons, here and elsewhere, as to why this isn't about "nothing."

waitwhat · May 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Interesting times for NBs. Many say they really don't match up to the other classes currently (I am more in this camp), but others are saying come Morrowind NBs (stamina in particular) will be one of the best PvP classes.

Only way to find out is to wait for Morrowind to go live.

@Publius_Scipio

Proof required. WHO is "saying come Morrowind NBs (stamina in particular) will be one of the best PvP classes."

Also, please explain how this alleviates the NB's place in end-game PvE.

Kalante · May 2017

As a stam nb i am not a whole lot worried about the nerfs in morrowind, it's the other people that use dk's, templars, that will feel how it feels to be a nb. Vulnerable.

Mag and stam sorcs in the other hand still get to keep their class unchanged for whatever reason.

waitwhat · May 2017

Kalante wrote: »

As a stam nb i am not a whole lot worried about the nerfs in morrowind, it's the other people that use dk's, templars, that will feel how it feels to be a nb. Vulnerable.

Mag and stam sorcs in the other hand still get to keep their class unchanged for whatever reason.

@Kalante

I'm not a whole lot worried either, but I'm pretty angry about what they've done to us stamblades. It will nice for the other classes to die more often, but I cannot--and no one should--countenance the non-nerf to Dark Exchange when they've gutted Siphoning Strikes.

Publius_Scipio · May 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Interesting times for NBs. Many say they really don't match up to the other classes currently (I am more in this camp), but others are saying come Morrowind NBs (stamina in particular) will be one of the best PvP classes.

Only way to find out is to wait for Morrowind to go live.

@Publius_Scipio

Proof required. WHO is "saying come Morrowind NBs (stamina in particular) will be one of the best PvP classes."

Also, please explain how this alleviates the NB's place in end-game PvE.

I was told this recently in Trueflame zone chat by a man who once went by the name of AOE BBQ. If I remember correctly a couple of others backed him up. Any further details I don't have.

As far as PvE goes, stam NB I don't think was anyone's first or second choice with other options available for the past three years. Unless you are a really optimized stam NB I'd say don't even think about seriously attempting the solo trial. And in group content, your buddies won't be pleased with your DPS. So it's either stam NB improves in PvE or not much will change at all from what it's always been.

But like I said, we'll all see how things turn out come Morrowind.

waitwhat · May 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Interesting times for NBs. Many say they really don't match up to the other classes currently (I am more in this camp), but others are saying come Morrowind NBs (stamina in particular) will be one of the best PvP classes.

Only way to find out is to wait for Morrowind to go live.

@Publius_Scipio

Proof required. WHO is "saying come Morrowind NBs (stamina in particular) will be one of the best PvP classes."

Also, please explain how this alleviates the NB's place in end-game PvE.

I was told this recently in Trueflame zone chat by a man who once went by the name of AOE BBQ. If I remember correctly a couple of others backed him up. Any further details I don't have.

As far as PvE goes, stam NB I don't think was anyone's first or second choice with other options available for the past three years. Unless you are a really optimized stam NB I'd say don't even think about seriously attempting the solo trial. And in group content, your buddies won't be pleased with your DPS. So it's either stam NB improves in PvE or not much will change at all from what it's always been.

But like I said, we'll all see how things turn out come Morrowind.

Fair.

I'd be interested in hearing how they came to that conclusion, though we aren't as bad off in PvP as we are in PvE.

As for the second point, it's clear that any improvements to our lot in PvP aren't set to do us any good in PvE, where our situation is already intolerable.

We don't really need to wait for Morrowind though. PTS is already up, and at this point we've picked over enough to know that things will be worse for us, not better.

So I wouldn't say interesting times for NBs. I would just say bad times for NBs.

Publius_Scipio · May 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Interesting times for NBs. Many say they really don't match up to the other classes currently (I am more in this camp), but others are saying come Morrowind NBs (stamina in particular) will be one of the best PvP classes.

Only way to find out is to wait for Morrowind to go live.

@Publius_Scipio

Proof required. WHO is "saying come Morrowind NBs (stamina in particular) will be one of the best PvP classes."

Also, please explain how this alleviates the NB's place in end-game PvE.

I was told this recently in Trueflame zone chat by a man who once went by the name of AOE BBQ. If I remember correctly a couple of others backed him up. Any further details I don't have.

As far as PvE goes, stam NB I don't think was anyone's first or second choice with other options available for the past three years. Unless you are a really optimized stam NB I'd say don't even think about seriously attempting the solo trial. And in group content, your buddies won't be pleased with your DPS. So it's either stam NB improves in PvE or not much will change at all from what it's always been.

But like I said, we'll all see how things turn out come Morrowind.

Fair.

I'd be interested in hearing how they came to that conclusion, though we aren't as bad off in PvP as we are in PvE.

As for the second point, it's clear that any improvements to our lot in PvP aren't set to do us any good in PvE, where our situation is already intolerable.

We don't really need to wait for Morrowind though. PTS is already up, and at this point we've picked over enough to know that things will be worse for us, not better.

So I wouldn't say interesting times for NBs. I would just say bad times for NBs.

Well, it's not over till it's over. And ultimately Mr. Rich Lambert did say on ESO Live that they hear the community regarding NBs and ZOS plans to take a more in depth look into the class.

Blud · May 2017

magsorc's shield absorbed....
magsorc's shield absorbed....
magsorc's shield absorbed....
magsorc's shield absorbed....
...

cyx54tc · May 2017

FoulSnowpaw wrote: »

NB can pull large amounts of mobs without even falling near death given their siphon abilities.
NB have high ultimate gains and burst damage.
NB has siphons which keeps them alive independently for certain WB and ALL public dungeons.
NB easily wins pvp with invis, burst damage, ultimate gain, stun, crit, and heal.
NB has fear which typically is undodgeable and interrupts everything.

I myself have magicka NB and he works as fine as any other class. Get proper gear.

People and L2P issues. If it's merely playstyle you find annoying compared to other classes, then NB is not for you.

burst damage...
you mean something like...

vs Sorc: NB is in stealth, NB fired snipe, NB is charging to the Sorc, NB used ultimate!
System: Shield absorbed, Shield absorbed, Shield absorbed, Shield absorbed. Sorc turned around and used Mage wraith. Frag proc ! Sorc used Frag! NB is below 20%, Mage wraith explode!. One shoot!

vs Templar/DK: NB is in stealth, NB fired snipe, NB is charging to the Temp/DK, NB used ultimate!
System: Low damage detected, Low damage detected, Low damage detected. Opponent is half HP. Opponent used Heal, Opponent is at 100%.
NB used damage skill, NB used damage skill, NB used damage skill, NB used damage skill....
System: Opponent used heal, Opponent used heal, Opponent used heal, Opponent used heal.... Opponent used damage skill. Critical hit! NB used heal, Opponent used damage skill again! NB is dead.

vs NB: NB is in stealth, NB fired snipe, NB is charging to the opponent and used ultimate!
System: Killed!

Publius_Scipio · May 2017

cyx54tc wrote: »

FoulSnowpaw wrote: »

NB can pull large amounts of mobs without even falling near death given their siphon abilities.
NB have high ultimate gains and burst damage.
NB has siphons which keeps them alive independently for certain WB and ALL public dungeons.
NB easily wins pvp with invis, burst damage, ultimate gain, stun, crit, and heal.
NB has fear which typically is undodgeable and interrupts everything.

I myself have magicka NB and he works as fine as any other class. Get proper gear.

People and L2P issues. If it's merely playstyle you find annoying compared to other classes, then NB is not for you.

burst damage...
you mean something like...

vs Sorc: NB is in stealth, NB fired snipe, NB is charging to the Sorc, NB used ultimate!
System: Shield absorbed, Shield absorbed, Shield absorbed, Shield absorbed. Sorc turned around and used Mage wraith. Frag proc ! Sorc used Frag! NB is below 20%, Mage wraith explode!. One shoot!

vs Templar/DK: NB is in stealth, NB fired snipe, NB is charging to the Temp/DK, NB used ultimate!
System: Low damage detected, Low damage detected, Low damage detected. Opponent is half HP. Opponent used Heal, Opponent is at 100%.
NB used damage skill, NB used damage skill, NB used damage skill, NB used damage skill....
System: Opponent used heal, Opponent used heal, Opponent used heal, Opponent used heal.... Opponent used damage skill. Critical hit! NB used heal, Opponent used damage skill again! NB is dead.

vs NB: NB is in stealth, NB fired snipe, NB is charging to the opponent and used ultimate!
System: Killed!

True. Only class I feel I have a shot against is another NB lol.

GreenSoup2HoT · May 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

They died with One Tamriel.

They died when they changed Dark cloak.

QuebraRegra · May 2017

Koensol wrote: »

I honestly have to puke at those wrobel quotes. "We are working on making NB's more viable by making PvE endgame more sneaky..." I mean what the hell Wrobel? What kind of dumb unrealistic goal is that?

This game company and it's stupid idealism of "we want them to be X" and "we want to have a similar playstyle for PvE and PvP". This idealism will *** kill you game ZOS. You better start listening to players and acting on common sense, and start implementing changes to bring class balance back in line. The difference in viability between sorc and nb is just ridiculous. Unacceptable. The class balance at this point is even worse than Warhammer Online at launch!

Just stop thinking only about what YOU want to do with a class. Remember that it is the players that play these classes to have fun. Listen to what they want, they are your paying customers. Sticking to your stubborn idealism will not get you any more players. And just seeing all of the unique aspects of classes being gutted is simply not fun anymore.

who is this Wrobel guy anyway? Why exactly is he in charge of these things? I ask again, what are his qualifications? Unless someone provides them, I'm calling nepotism...

I know there are some others @ZOS with loooong histories (see the 1970's) of designing/editiing/balancing games going all the way back to PnP age... perhaps they can be consulted, or they can at least help to provide some input?

How does the community "impeach" the balance changer after years of dissatisfaction?

Koensol · May 2017

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

I honestly have to puke at those wrobel quotes. "We are working on making NB's more viable by making PvE endgame more sneaky..." I mean what the hell Wrobel? What kind of dumb unrealistic goal is that?

This game company and it's stupid idealism of "we want them to be X" and "we want to have a similar playstyle for PvE and PvP". This idealism will *** kill you game ZOS. You better start listening to players and acting on common sense, and start implementing changes to bring class balance back in line. The difference in viability between sorc and nb is just ridiculous. Unacceptable. The class balance at this point is even worse than Warhammer Online at launch!

Just stop thinking only about what YOU want to do with a class. Remember that it is the players that play these classes to have fun. Listen to what they want, they are your paying customers. Sticking to your stubborn idealism will not get you any more players. And just seeing all of the unique aspects of classes being gutted is simply not fun anymore.

who is this Wrobel guy anyway? Why exactly is he in charge of these things? I ask again, what are his qualifications? Unless someone provides them, I'm calling nepotism...

I know there are some others @ZOS with loooong histories (see the 1970's) of designing/editiing/balancing games going all the way back to PnP age... perhaps they can be consulted, or they can at least help to provide some input?

How does the community "impeach" the balance changer after years of dissatisfaction?

All I know is that the guy has a childlike use of logic. As in a really black/white kind of logic. Prime example is the recent javelin "buff". I mean, who in his right mind would think that increasing the range on a knockback would be an improvement to a class that mainly uses a melee damage ability? That is just simple black/white logic: "Hey guys let us change this knockback so it knocks back further! The further the better, right?"

These kind of changes seem like they were made by someone with a complete inability of comprehending context. Well, whoopty f'ing doo Wrobel! You just made another templar ability useless. It's just sad.