Rip Nightblades (assuming they were alive at one point)

vyndral13preub18_ESO

ParaNostram wrote: »

Ya'll mistake being anything less than the absolute best according to the meta as dead. Seriously. I've played on the PTS, it's fine, from a magicka perspective I never enjoyed stamina so I'm honestly just rubbish at that. However, my magblade still dominates in PvE and PvP.

Remember this bit of wisdom... Mastery of a class > flavor of the patch builds.

So the selling point of the class is, once you have mastered it you can beat up people who just started playing?

Im not sure that is actual wisdom.

STEVIL

Is it me or is it odd that the reason siphoning changes are included in the bad for nightblades is that it wont be needed at all in the new hvy meta?

Isnt that like ssying your glasses were nerfed by your lazic strgery?

Seems to me ssying nb used to need siphoning but now wont is not so much a nerf as a freed up slot for another DOT/HOT.

if sorcs got some change so the surges were not needed, would the be a nerf too?

Tombs_UDL

Zone: Trials has room for one DPS
Me Whisper: I will go
Whisper back: Class?
Me Whisper: Stam NB
*Crickets
Me whisper: Well?
-You have been blocked by player-

Shadzilla

Tombs_UDL wrote: »

Zone: Trials has room for one DPS
Me Whisper: I will go
Whisper back: Class?
Me Whisper: Stam NB
*Crickets
Me whisper: Well?
-You have been blocked by player-

This post made me laugh so hard for about 5 seconds. I then returned to a state of sadness. Thank you sir.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Shadzilla wrote: »

Tombs_UDL wrote: »

Zone: Trials has room for one DPS
Me Whisper: I will go
Whisper back: Class?
Me Whisper: Stam NB
*Crickets
Me whisper: Well?
-You have been blocked by player-

This post made me laugh so hard for about 5 seconds. I then returned to a state of sadness. Thank you sir.

soooooo true....

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Shadzilla wrote: »

Tombs_UDL wrote: »

Zone: Trials has room for one DPS
Me Whisper: I will go
Whisper back: Class?
Me Whisper: Stam NB
*Crickets
Me whisper: Well?
-You have been blocked by player-

This post made me laugh so hard for about 5 seconds. I then returned to a state of sadness. Thank you sir.

It is why we wear a costume and carry staves. Just hope no one notices the change once the trial starts...

Now if only people would stop asking me why I am a Khajiit Magika character. I can only lie so well....

Tiitus

ParaNostram wrote: »

Ya'll mistake being anything less than the absolute best according to the meta as dead. Seriously. I've played on the PTS, it's fine, from a magicka perspective I never enjoyed stamina so I'm honestly just rubbish at that. However, my magblade still dominates in PvE and PvP.

Remember this bit of wisdom... Mastery of a class > flavor of the patch builds.

its not a mistake when your only taken into consideration for pve when no other dps class is available... answer truthfully. if 2 players of equal skill and gear ask to be in your group at the exact same time (this is so you dnt give a bs answer like "il take who asked first") on a night of progression, one is magblade the other magsorc, who would you take that would benefit the group the most?


Remember this bit of wisdom... Mastery of a class + flavor of the patch builds > Mastery of a class > flavor of the patch builds.

Tiitus

STEVIL wrote: »

Is it me or is it odd that the reason siphoning changes are included in the bad for nightblades is that it wont be needed at all in the new hvy meta?

Isnt that like ssying your glasses were nerfed by your lazic strgery?

Seems to me ssying nb used to need siphoning but now wont is not so much a nerf as a freed up slot for another DOT/HOT.

if sorcs got some change so the surges were not needed, would the be a nerf too?

by this logic dark deal needs to be deleted aswell... i swear what an odd way people have of thinking, also why use crit surge as an example when sorcs have a comparable skill (dark deal) to siphoning? or are we pretending it doesnt exist for the sake of your "but its not that bad" argument?

waitwhat

ParaNostram wrote: »

Ya'll mistake being anything less than the absolute best according to the meta as dead. Seriously. I've played on the PTS, it's fine, from a magicka perspective I never enjoyed stamina so I'm honestly just rubbish at that. However, my magblade still dominates in PvE and PvP.

Remember this bit of wisdom... Mastery of a class > flavor of the patch builds.

So....
1) this post does nothing to counter all the other posts about how hard things are for stamblades, significantly lessening its relevance to the discussion right from the get go.
2) mastery of a class is not greater than the flavor of patch builds. You can be nerfed to the point of not doing as well as you need to. Moreover, mastery of the class doesn't overcome the outright prejudice you will face as a nightblade--more so as a stamblade--because of how difficult your class has been made to play.
3) pics or it didn't happen. Prove you're fine on the PTS and prove what dominating in PvE and PvP mean to you.

waitwhat

STEVIL wrote: »

Is it me or is it odd that the reason siphoning changes are included in the bad for nightblades is that it wont be needed at all in the new hvy meta?

Isnt that like ssying your glasses were nerfed by your lazic strgery?

Seems to me ssying nb used to need siphoning but now wont is not so much a nerf as a freed up slot for another DOT/HOT.

if sorcs got some change so the surges were not needed, would the be a nerf too?

Your post should compare Dark Deal to be relevant, not crit surge.

I won't buy this heavy meta until I see it, and it certainly seems like sorcs will be less forced into that meta because of the unchanged state of Dark Deal + the other morphs.

Even if the loss of siphoning were to free up another spot for a HoT or DoT, there really aren't any others stamblades to run, and the loss of sustain means we run them less often.

This is a nerf. Calling it anything else only brings more scrutiny to your class.

cwolfe702b14_ESO

This update is the first update where I really am considering moving on.

I have played NB's since beta have one of each (stam, Mag, Tank, Heals). With what has been done in the past few patches, and now in this one my will to keep going is dying.

I have tried the other classes and have multiple maxed characters and found that NB is what I like. Others are just to boring IMO.

I Have a great guild and have been a major contributor to are progression trials, even though was lower dps 22-26k on my mNB. What I brought elsewhere made me stand out and contribute to us getting through all vet content, but vMOL. With the next update I will feel as if I am dragging them down and must play a alt sorc which is boring to me.

I just don't know at this point what I will do. As of now will keep at PTS and watch changes. If stays same, I and probably a few others will be moving on to greener pastures!!

Jsho83

I have a stamblade. I realized this class was trash as I have 3 gold sets, and I stuggled to kill anyone that was a decent pvper. Basically everyone can heal good, sorc use mines, etc. And I'm always out of stamina, cloak doesn't do much, and if I want to heal I need to use 2h weapon instead of dw or I'll just die as dw will just be a burst of dps that drains me without killing anyone.

For this reason I cancelled my eso plus, and haven't played longer than 1 hour total in 4 months. I didn't want to start another character which would be a option, but playing as a nb was definitely not a option.

Anyhow, I'm getting straight as at my university and I'm over this game for good now, but thought I'd add my 2 cents to this forum as it popped up in my Google news.

hmsdragonfly

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?

Fingolfinn01

Well I don't think anyone at zos plays nb's

Mitrenga

Very good post Sir, thank you.

I have more than one chars like other players but my saptank mag nb was the reason i kept playing all the time.
Playing on that toon was making me very happy, doing good damage and supporting my group as an off tank...
Now she is useless, only an enchanting crafter and a vampire bite provide in the guild.
I already dumped my stamblade and he is my crafting guy now.

ZoS, what are you doing?

Shadzilla

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?

I'm sorry sir, you must be corrected on a vast number of levels. DKs are meta tanks, templars are meta healers. This is a well known fact among the eso community. What meta means is they are the best, you cannot possibly do better with another class. The class abilities and passives for dks/templars, make them the best possible tanks/healers in the game. That is a fact that cannot be denied. With that simple fact, the general logic would be that sorcs and nbs should be meta dps. This is not the case. First off, stamina characters pull less single target damage. Stamina toons also pull maybe 70% of the AOE damage mag toons do, along with a much smaller cleave damage output. Mag sorcs are meta dps, the best possible dps that can be achieved. Dks do not pull more single target than sorcs do. Sorcs can pull around 56k+ single target, WHILE RANGED WITH SHIELDS SLOTTED, not even melee! Dks, along with stam toons, are forced to be melee yet pull lower single target damage. You cannot show me a dk parse with more than 56k single target on a vet trial boss, its just not possible. Where are nightblades? Faaaaaar behind, that is what this thread is about.

Recap :

Templars = meta healers

Dks = meta tanks

Mag sorcs = meta dps

Nightblades = meta node/writ farmers


While zos does give each class some sort of tank/heal/dps ability or passive mixture, it really does not matter at the end game level. If you want any sort of success in competitive trials, you have to run certain classes. The issue that dks pull much more damage than nightblades, while simultaneously being meta tanks, is just another zos balancing issue. These facts are proven by some of the best players in the world, that dedicate a massive amount of time theory crafting/testing to find the best possible output for certain builds. I am not one of those people, but I do know a few of them

Violynne

I watched the ESO live video and spit out my drink when Rich said, "Despite contrary belief, we do play the game."

There's a tremendous difference between "playing the game" as all sorcs than all NBs.

No, the only damn reason NBs are getting nerfed is because of all the pansies out there who HATE BEING TAKEN OUT IN ONE HIT BY A CLASS WHOSE ENTIRE DAMN PURPOSE IS TO SNEAK AND KILL WITHOUT BEING NOTICED.

Can't wait for the buffs of NBs in the future, where not only will their shadow be highlighted for all players to see but will suffer a 70% movement penalty while in stealth, so the pansies whining about ganking can ride away from a threat.

A mage who walks into PvP without protecting themselves from stealth attacks does not have reason to cry when they're ganked.

DMuehlhausen

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

<pause for typing resources>

<Getting ready for burst reply>

<Died before post>

So much fun !

Chatty little B**** should get in iirc if they want to chat.

Shadzilla

Violynne wrote: »

I watched the ESO live video and spit out my drink when Rich said, "Despite contrary belief, we do play the game."

There's a tremendous difference between "playing the game" as all sorcs than all NBs.

No, the only damn reason NBs are getting nerfed is because of all the pansies out there who HATE BEING TAKEN OUT IN ONE HIT BY A CLASS WHOSE ENTIRE DAMN PURPOSE IS TO SNEAK AND KILL WITHOUT BEING NOTICED.

Can't wait for the buffs of NBs in the future, where not only will their shadow be highlighted for all players to see but will suffer a 70% movement penalty while in stealth, so the pansies whining about ganking can ride away from a threat.

A mage who walks into PvP without protecting themselves from stealth attacks does not have reason to cry when they're ganked.

They play the game, they just don't play often like the rest of us.

Artis

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?

NB has no group utilities in current meta. But you are right in one thing - it's not a DPS class. It's a class to play Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood and to farm delves/public dungeons when you don't want to fight everything and want to just move between bosses in dark cloak.

waitwhat

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?

@hmsdragonfly

I would say ZOS doesn't really have a vision for class divergence, to everyone's detriment. Templars having as much DD abilities as nighblades, and DKs having more single target DSP than a sorc are, to a significant number of players, signs of a system gone haywire.

One one hand, the play however you want and any class can fill any role mantras so oft articulated by ZOS can be alluring, but in practice they present huge balance challenges in allowing classes to do everything (heal, tank, damage, support) in some form, but not allowing classes to do everything in one form. Faced with the reality those matras have begotten, i.e. where we are now, it may well be to everyone's benefit for the intended roles of each class to be more solidly delineated. Accordingly, I would support @Wrecking_Blow_Spam 's description of class roles, not as description of what ZOS wants, but as a road map for clarity.

hmsdragonfly

Shadzilla wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?

I'm sorry sir, you must be corrected on a vast number of levels. DKs are meta tanks, templars are meta healers. This is a well known fact among the eso community. What meta means is they are the best, you cannot possibly do better with another class. The class abilities and passives for dks/templars, make them the best possible tanks/healers in the game. That is a fact that cannot be denied. With that simple fact, the general logic would be that sorcs and nbs should be meta dps. This is not the case. First off, stamina characters pull less single target damage. Stamina toons also pull maybe 70% of the AOE damage mag toons do, along with a much smaller cleave damage output. Mag sorcs are meta dps, the best possible dps that can be achieved. Dks do not pull more single target than sorcs do. Sorcs can pull around 56k+ single target, WHILE RANGED WITH SHIELDS SLOTTED, not even melee! Dks, along with stam toons, are forced to be melee yet pull lower single target damage. You cannot show me a dk parse with more than 56k single target on a vet trial boss, its just not possible. Where are nightblades? Faaaaaar behind, that is what this thread is about.

Recap :

Templars = meta healers

Dks = meta tanks

Mag sorcs = meta dps

Nightblades = meta node/writ farmers


While zos does give each class some sort of tank/heal/dps ability or passive mixture, it really does not matter at the end game level. If you want any sort of success in competitive trials, you have to run certain classes. The issue that dks pull much more damage than nightblades, while simultaneously being meta tanks, is just another zos balancing issue. These facts are proven by some of the best players in the world, that dedicate a massive amount of time theory crafting/testing to find the best possible output for certain builds. I am not one of those people, but I do know a few of them

So what? Meta has nothing to do with what i am talking about. DKs make the best tanks, sure, but it doesn't mean ZOS's vision is that only DKs can tank. ZOS's vision is that every class can fill in every role, sure depending on the meta, a class can be ahead of others in a certain role, but it doesn't mean ZOS want that class is the only one viable for that role. Under-performing classes need buffs. That's it. Nightblade needs buff in DPS, healing and tanking.

So,
"Templars = meta healers
Dks = meta tanks
Mag sorcs = meta dps
Nightblades = meta node/writ farmers"

-> this is correct in this current meta. I might not be correct in future meta, and hasn't been always correct in previous metas.

"ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS"

-> this is incorrect.

Get it?

DKs do pull more single target than Sorc, proof: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3960855/#Comment_3960855

zyk

I'm really afraid about how ZOS might eventually buff NBs. I don't want the class to become brain dead like most other metas are.

WTB: new direction for combat design in ESO.

hmsdragonfly

waitwhat wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?

@hmsdragonfly

I would say ZOS doesn't really have a vision for class divergence, to everyone's detriment. Templars having as much DD abilities as nighblades, and DKs having more single target DSP than a sorc are, to a significant number of players, signs of a system gone haywire.

One one hand, the play however you want and any class can fill any role mantras so oft articulated by ZOS can be alluring, but in practice they present huge balance challenges in allowing classes to do everything (heal, tank, damage, support) in some form, but not allowing classes to do everything in one form. Faced with the reality those matras have begotten, i.e. where we are now, it may well be to everyone's benefit for the intended roles of each class to be more solidly delineated. Accordingly, I would support @Wrecking_Blow_Spam 's description of class roles, not as description of what ZOS wants, but as a road map for clarity.

You are suggesting we should turn this game into a generic WoW clone.

Balancing needs work, that's correct. Nightblade needs buff, that's correct. But does it mean we should give up what makes this game unique, and turn it into a generic WoW clone? Well, why don't you simply play WoW or 1,000 of its clones, if you want a "class = role" system? Many people come to this game because the class system is unique, any class can fill in any role, this is as close to the TES's freedom of choice as we can get, and it should stay that way.

rfennell_ESO

Well, let's see.
(waits on stamina because of stealth)

Critical charge, viper (applied from 12 meters+ away), dawnbreaker->executioner from any fotm super speed 0 stats into regen max damage build (that never runs out of resources).

NM

Let's try again
(waits on stamina because of stealth)

Focused aim, focused aim, heavy attack->poison injection!

*dodge* *dodge* *dodge*

Critical charge, viper (applied from 12 meters+ away), dawnbreaker->executioner from any fotm super speed 0 stats into regen max damage build (that never runs out of resources).

GG

pcar944

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

your assassin class, the bursty one, with a powerful execute - has the most broken skills in the game that don't work as supposed to, execute that gets "dodge dodge dodge", cloak that gets broken by a breath of the wind ... and is literally bottom of the barrel

I've already canceled my sub, I kind of want to play Morrowind, but I'm strongly considering canceling it

Shadzilla

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?

I'm sorry sir, you must be corrected on a vast number of levels. DKs are meta tanks, templars are meta healers. This is a well known fact among the eso community. What meta means is they are the best, you cannot possibly do better with another class. The class abilities and passives for dks/templars, make them the best possible tanks/healers in the game. That is a fact that cannot be denied. With that simple fact, the general logic would be that sorcs and nbs should be meta dps. This is not the case. First off, stamina characters pull less single target damage. Stamina toons also pull maybe 70% of the AOE damage mag toons do, along with a much smaller cleave damage output. Mag sorcs are meta dps, the best possible dps that can be achieved. Dks do not pull more single target than sorcs do. Sorcs can pull around 56k+ single target, WHILE RANGED WITH SHIELDS SLOTTED, not even melee! Dks, along with stam toons, are forced to be melee yet pull lower single target damage. You cannot show me a dk parse with more than 56k single target on a vet trial boss, its just not possible. Where are nightblades? Faaaaaar behind, that is what this thread is about.

Recap :

Templars = meta healers

Dks = meta tanks

Mag sorcs = meta dps

Nightblades = meta node/writ farmers


While zos does give each class some sort of tank/heal/dps ability or passive mixture, it really does not matter at the end game level. If you want any sort of success in competitive trials, you have to run certain classes. The issue that dks pull much more damage than nightblades, while simultaneously being meta tanks, is just another zos balancing issue. These facts are proven by some of the best players in the world, that dedicate a massive amount of time theory crafting/testing to find the best possible output for certain builds. I am not one of those people, but I do know a few of them

So what? Meta has nothing to do with what i am talking about. DKs make the best tanks, sure, but it doesn't mean ZOS's vision is that only DKs can tank. ZOS's vision is that every class can fill in every role, sure depending on the meta, a class can be ahead of others in a certain role, but it doesn't mean ZOS want that class is the only one viable for that role. Under-performing classes need buffs. That's it. Nightblade needs buff in DPS, healing and tanking.

So,
"Templars = meta healers
Dks = meta tanks
Mag sorcs = meta dps
Nightblades = meta node/writ farmers"

-> this is correct in this current meta. I might not be correct in future meta, and hasn't been always correct in previous metas.

"ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS"

-> this is incorrect.

Get it?

DKs do pull more single target than Sorc, proof: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3960855/#Comment_3960855

Your "proof" is incorrect. There are many single target parses from mag sorcs with 55k+. The parses in that thread don't even breach 50... If you would kindly let me know where I can see a dk parse beating 55k that would be fantastic, until then you stand corrected sir.

acw37162

The state of NB alone is more of a reason for ZoS to give us class change token then the introduction of Warden.

Gilvoth

with the new pts patch notes we now have decreased sneak speeds and unable to enter stealth quickly.
the eye closes alot slower now and seems like forever to be in complete stealth and the sneak speeds are much slower as well.

burninggod

blame yall selfs for using 1 punch builds on people they deserve the nerf.
just like my templar is nerfed deal with it and get good.