Rip Nightblades (assuming they were alive at one point)

xeNNNNN

every time one of these threads come up I die a little inside.

Not because I disagree, but because its true and thats just sad

RIP my nightblade RIP.
ALSO RIP since forever.

Shadzilla

xeNNNNN wrote: »

every time one of these threads come up I die a little inside.

Not because I disagree, but because its true and thats just sad

RIP my nightblade RIP.
ALSO RIP since forever.

Things can change, get your friends to help complain on the forums. The only way changes come in this game is from forums QQ.

ccfeeling

Complained a year , we got vigor sta use +30%
We better keep silent , sorcs are king we know , they a on god mode

Maryal

ccfeeling wrote: »

Complained a year , we got vigor sta use +30%
We better keep silent , sorcs are king we know , they a on god mode

I have to agree. It seems the more we (stam nb) complain, the 'fixes' we end up getting seem to make it worse for us in the long run.

And yes, it really feels like sorcs are king, they are on God mode.

Rataroto

for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.

Shadzilla

Rataroto wrote: »

for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.

Hate to brake it to you buddy, but your solo skele parses mean nothing in a trial. You have access to minor berserk in your solo rotation, which everyone gets as a raid buff anyways. Along with your main spammable providing major fracture. I am glad you can do so much damage on a target skeleton, good job on taking advantage of the solo buffs nbs get that mean nothing in trial environments. If you would like to provide some parses from a trial boss, as to how much damage you can pull, that would be a much more appropriate argument. This thread is focused on the poor performance of nbs in end game trials, vma, and pvp. Along with the fact that they have never really been OP at anything except sustain, which never mattered until this patch, which was a convenient time to murder siphoning strikes RIP. They also have always been at the bottom of the dps barrel when it comes to trials.

ccfeeling

Without sensible defense ability , especially Stamblade , they get one shot in vtrial mechanic easily .
In the coming patch note , we we got longer resistance shadow passive and hot from SA , bo change at all , 1 shot go down again , thats why hodor wont bring 1.
To zos , can u just delete this class in pve , sb is pure pvp class , we know that zos cant balance well at both , so dont let players down every patch , im asking for free and full skill re-roll , thx.

valthierX

I play all classes and the most challenging class for me is the NB. I get killed many times when I play my 2 NB, stam and mag as compared to my other toons. I read in the past I think this class was a favorite but I guess it got nerfed too bad.

ShedsHisTail

Oh, ***... Did I die while I was away?

Tannus15

Shadzilla wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.

Hate to brake it to you buddy, but your solo skele parses mean nothing in a trial. You have access to minor berserk in your solo rotation, which everyone gets as a raid buff anyways. Along with your main spammable providing major fracture. I am glad you can do so much damage on a target skeleton, good job on taking advantage of the solo buffs nbs get that mean nothing in trial environments. If you would like to provide some parses from a trial boss, as to how much damage you can pull, that would be a much more appropriate argument. This thread is focused on the poor performance of nbs in end game trials, vma, and pvp. Along with the fact that they have never really been OP at anything except sustain, which never mattered until this patch, which was a convenient time to murder siphoning strikes RIP. They also have always been at the bottom of the dps barrel when it comes to trials.

wow, what a terrible post.

If someone can pull 45k on a skelly, then it stands to reason that they can pull 45k on a trial boss.
It doesn't matter that he has a bunch of redundant debuffs hitting the boss, because who cares where the debuff comes from? I think it's fair to say his damage isn't going to go down due to being in a trial and 45k is very good, so what exactly is your point?

Secondly you mention VMA and his own debuffs/buffs are the only thing that matter, so the skelly parse is even MORE relevant there.

Rataroto

Shadzilla wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.

Hate to brake it to you buddy, but your solo skele parses mean nothing in a trial. You have access to minor berserk in your solo rotation, which everyone gets as a raid buff anyways. Along with your main spammable providing major fracture. I am glad you can do so much damage on a target skeleton, good job on taking advantage of the solo buffs nbs get that mean nothing in trial environments. If you would like to provide some parses from a trial boss, as to how much damage you can pull, that would be a much more appropriate argument. This thread is focused on the poor performance of nbs in end game trials, vma, and pvp. Along with the fact that they have never really been OP at anything except sustain, which never mattered until this patch, which was a convenient time to murder siphoning strikes RIP. They also have always been at the bottom of the dps barrel when it comes to trials.

It does scale less on trials, because they already have a buff built in. The skelly parse is just an exemple. Nightblades are not dead, they just require skill to play. I've touched the new trial the very first time today, and I died, yes, though I'm still learning where the damage comes from and ***. Lets take something like maw for exemple. Hard mode wasnt rough at all, and I pulled 54k on stamblade. Nightblades aren't dead, but you gotta know where your limits are

Tannus15

valthierX wrote: »

I play all classes and the most challenging class for me is the NB. I get killed many times when I play my 2 NB, stam and mag as compared to my other toons. I read in the past I think this class was a favorite but I guess it got nerfed too bad.

I think this is the intent of the siphon attacks changes. They want to give NB more survive-ability by having a heal that works similar but different to surge.

It was changed from a sustain skill to a heal, and then they threw back in some of the sustain later.

max_only

Tannus15 wrote: »

valthierX wrote: »

I play all classes and the most challenging class for me is the NB. I get killed many times when I play my 2 NB, stam and mag as compared to my other toons. I read in the past I think this class was a favorite but I guess it got nerfed too bad.

I think this is the intent of the siphon attacks changes. They want to give NB more survive-ability by having a heal that works similar but different to surge.

It was changed from a sustain skill to a heal, and then they threw back in some of the sustain later.

Yeah but it was an unnecessary change. You spend more resource than what you can get back in a perfect rotation. And almost all of magNB's skills are already lifesteal so more healing doesn't help. I'm looking for resource return. Nightblades need a "Dark Deal" or "Repentance" so they can continue a long fight aka sustain.

Destyran

I have seen sorcs pull 49k dps on target skeleton with only eledrain on console.

HuawaSepp

Tannus15 wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.

Hate to brake it to you buddy, but your solo skele parses mean nothing in a trial. You have access to minor berserk in your solo rotation, which everyone gets as a raid buff anyways. Along with your main spammable providing major fracture. I am glad you can do so much damage on a target skeleton, good job on taking advantage of the solo buffs nbs get that mean nothing in trial environments. If you would like to provide some parses from a trial boss, as to how much damage you can pull, that would be a much more appropriate argument. This thread is focused on the poor performance of nbs in end game trials, vma, and pvp. Along with the fact that they have never really been OP at anything except sustain, which never mattered until this patch, which was a convenient time to murder siphoning strikes RIP. They also have always been at the bottom of the dps barrel when it comes to trials.

wow, what a terrible post.

If someone can pull 45k on a skelly, then it stands to reason that they can pull 45k on a trial boss.
It doesn't matter that he has a bunch of redundant debuffs hitting the boss, because who cares where the debuff comes from? I think it's fair to say his damage isn't going to go down due to being in a trial and 45k is very good, so what exactly is your point?

Secondly you mention VMA and his own debuffs/buffs are the only thing that matter, so the skelly parse is even MORE relevant there.

His damage will be about 5k/s in the new trial.
The most time a stam player is dead in the new trial so do some 45k parses on a magblade.

FlyLionel

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nbs are, with templars, the most competitve pvp classes, period. nuff said.

I've been playing since release and watched quite a few competitive PVP tournaments and I can say without a lie; I have never seen a NB win a competitive PVP tournament. So what are you talking about? Open world? I guarantee you that Sorcerers have the most wins of all time, or DKs. All long time players will agree with that.

Shadzilla

Rataroto wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.

Hate to brake it to you buddy, but your solo skele parses mean nothing in a trial. You have access to minor berserk in your solo rotation, which everyone gets as a raid buff anyways. Along with your main spammable providing major fracture. I am glad you can do so much damage on a target skeleton, good job on taking advantage of the solo buffs nbs get that mean nothing in trial environments. If you would like to provide some parses from a trial boss, as to how much damage you can pull, that would be a much more appropriate argument. This thread is focused on the poor performance of nbs in end game trials, vma, and pvp. Along with the fact that they have never really been OP at anything except sustain, which never mattered until this patch, which was a convenient time to murder siphoning strikes RIP. They also have always been at the bottom of the dps barrel when it comes to trials.

It does scale less on trials, because they already have a buff built in. The skelly parse is just an exemple. Nightblades are not dead, they just require skill to play. I've touched the new trial the very first time today, and I died, yes, though I'm still learning where the damage comes from and ***. Lets take something like maw for exemple. Hard mode wasnt rough at all, and I pulled 54k on stamblade. Nightblades aren't dead, but you gotta know where your limits are

54k on rak hm? When you can do 65-70k on a mag sorc? There is a reason all the top trials scores have 6-8 mag sorc dps, and 1-2 mag dk dps for buff and chains. It is because they pull much more damage than nightblades. So yes, when your best parse can be beaten by 10k+ with other toons, that means nightblades are dead. Regardless of "where your limits are" you are seriously handicapping not only yourself, but your whole team just due to your class choice. That is pretty much the basis of this thread.

Shadzilla

FlyLionel wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nbs are, with templars, the most competitve pvp classes, period. nuff said.

I've been playing since release and watched quite a few competitive PVP tournaments and I can say without a lie; I have never seen a NB win a competitive PVP tournament. So what are you talking about? Open world? I guarantee you that Sorcerers have the most wins of all time, or DKs. All long time players will agree with that.

Well I do agree with NB's not being the best PVP class, it is much different for PVE. In PVP they can at least compete, if you have enough skill and experience. In PVE, they have never been near the top of anything, dps heals or tanks. Really sad, in most other games the rogue-like classes usually deal the most dps out of any, while lacking survivability.

Cloudless

Shadzilla wrote: »

Really sad, in most other games the rogue-like classes usually deal the most dps out of any, while lacking survivability.

Well, they got half of it right.

ccfeeling

Just uninstalled the game .
ESO , I gave it 5 stars.
But I coundnt accept the direction in PVE , magicka rules the world all the time.
Why cant give SB a better survivable ability?
Huge substain cut and return a little hot and little bit longer resistance , lol , zos u feel it could help? We need 22k spam sheild like sorc!
Anyway , good luck to the rest sb .

Shadzilla

ccfeeling wrote: »

Just uninstalled the game .
ESO , I gave it 5 stars.
But I coundnt accept the direction in PVE , magicka rules the world all the time.
Why cant give SB a better survivable ability?
Huge substain cut and return a little hot and little bit longer resistance , lol , zos u feel it could help? We need 22k spam sheild like sorc!
Anyway , good luck to the rest sb .

Magicka does rule the world in PVE, its very sad. Sucks, its always been like that except the 2 patches last year where stam had more single target damage due to the 3k cruel flurry. Every other patch the last 38 months it has been magicka dps only for the best possible scores.

Shadzilla

Cloudless wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Really sad, in most other games the rogue-like classes usually deal the most dps out of any, while lacking survivability.

Well, they got half of it right.

The wrong half.

hmsdragonfly

Shadzilla wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I agree for NBs to be buffed in PVE:

ZOS vision is something like:
Templar: Healer
Dk: Tank
Nightblade: DPS
Sorc: DPS

All stam DPS are same roughly. So nb and sorc are the 2 main pure DPS classes, yet magnb is nowhere near them.

Mag Dk DPS very strong currently (better than mgnb) and they are also the best tanks.

Templar: DPS not amazing as sorc n Dk but they are main healer.

Nightblade: purely built class as DPS and they are bottom of the magdps, Logic?

Ummm that's not ZOS's vision, like at all. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Nightblade has as many damage dealing abilities as Templar. Nightblade has many group utilities. So why is Nightblade a DPS class and Templar isn't? DK has more single target DPS than sorc, and yet they are the tank class?

Didn't Gina wright the other day how dks were a tank class? Also anyone with any sense can look at the skill lines and tell which class should excel at which role.

The classes were designed with the 3 roles in mind. Saying otherwise is clearly false. Can you do other things with other classes? Sure. But that doesn't take away the fact certain classes excel at certain roles, more so than the other classes.

Yes, all classes were designed with all 3 roles in mind, that's my point. Yes, a class can excel in a certain role, but it only means that class is the best in that certain role, it doesn't mean "A class = B role".

Beyond the lies of "play like you want" they designed a game where dk is tank, templar is heals, sorcs are dps and nbs go whee wheee whee all the way home.

So they didn't design with anything at all in mind.

You are a nightblade tank.

And I'm constantly being told it's not meta therefore worthless in the forums, meanwhile in game it works incredibly well and no one cares that I'm not a dk. It's not like zos designed nbs to tank they just screwed up making a dps so bad it works better as a tank.

Nightblade tanks aren't meta but they are legit tanks. Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them. If NBs are not designed to tank, they won't be able to tank, like at all. They are just poorly designed so they are less effective

Any class can equip a sword and board and tank, same with equipping a resto and healing. A dunmer nb can equip a 2h and dps. Will any of those do well in a rak hm fight? No. Will they be able to complete the content? No. The main issue is the way the class skills and passives align that make dks tanks, plars healers, mag sorcs dps, and nbs node farmers. Technically yes any class can equip any weapon and do stuff, they just will be very ineffective in a lot of cases. This is why even the developers relate towards certain classes being certain roles when they talk about them. @Artis along with myself have explained this to you multiple times in a variety of ways in this thread. You can link all the youtube videos you like. Just realize that youtubers get paid on how much content they provide. So if people make a tank/heal/dps/1vx/duel/battlegrounds build video on every class/combo possible, just realize that it may not always perform that great, and they get paid on how much content they throw out. If you could keep your arguments related to how nightblades are performing, and away from trash talking other forum members that would be awesome. I do not want to have to see more posts from you that have to be edited by admins for having an obscene amount of salt.

For the 99+ times, this is exactly why there are non-DK tanks and non-Templar healers that are legit tanks (or legit healers) if built correctly, since "Any class can equip a sword and board and tank, same with equipping a resto and healing", and it is exactly why they are ineffective compared to DK tanks and Templar healers in PvE content. They are just more poorly designed so they are less effective in PvE. Because they are less effective, in PvE they can't compete against DK tanks and Templar healers for competitive vet trials score runs, so they have to be happy with vet DLC dungeons for PvE content, or do PvP. It's a fact that Nightblade tanks exist, Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them, they are just less effective compared to DKs and can't compete against DKs in competitive trial runs.

You can throw all the personal attacks at me that you want, not like I care :P

Artis

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Because they are less effective, in PvE they can't compete against DK tanks and Templar healers for competitive vet trials score runs, so they have to be happy with vet DLC dungeons for PvE content, or do PvP. It's a fact that Nightblade tanks exist, Gilliam and KenaPKK both have builds for them, they are just less effective compared to DKs and can't compete against DKs in competitive trial runs.

And that's why DK is a tank class and templar is a healer class. Because if you want to be, for example, the best tank you can be, there's no reason not to do play a DK. And that's a problem that has to be fixed. And that's what people who have actual experience in end game have been telling you. You know, experience, not just basing your opinion on youtube videos.

QuebraRegra

Shadzilla wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Just uninstalled the game .
ESO , I gave it 5 stars.
But I coundnt accept the direction in PVE , magicka rules the world all the time.
Why cant give SB a better survivable ability?
Huge substain cut and return a little hot and little bit longer resistance , lol , zos u feel it could help? We need 22k spam sheild like sorc!
Anyway , good luck to the rest sb .

Magicka does rule the world in PVE, its very sad. Sucks, its always been like that except the 2 patches last year where stam had more single target damage due to the 3k cruel flurry. Every other patch the last 38 months it has been magicka dps only for the best possible scores.

Jumped on an old stamblade I hadn't played in over a year... got my arzz handed to me promptly. Jumped back on my MAGBLADE and just rolled without really ever being threatened.

I swear it didn't even fell like the old stam burst was there anymore either.

Izaki

Shadzilla wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.

Hate to brake it to you buddy, but your solo skele parses mean nothing in a trial. You have access to minor berserk in your solo rotation, which everyone gets as a raid buff anyways. Along with your main spammable providing major fracture. I am glad you can do so much damage on a target skeleton, good job on taking advantage of the solo buffs nbs get that mean nothing in trial environments. If you would like to provide some parses from a trial boss, as to how much damage you can pull, that would be a much more appropriate argument. This thread is focused on the poor performance of nbs in end game trials, vma, and pvp. Along with the fact that they have never really been OP at anything except sustain, which never mattered until this patch, which was a convenient time to murder siphoning strikes RIP. They also have always been at the bottom of the dps barrel when it comes to trials.

It does scale less on trials, because they already have a buff built in. The skelly parse is just an exemple. Nightblades are not dead, they just require skill to play. I've touched the new trial the very first time today, and I died, yes, though I'm still learning where the damage comes from and ***. Lets take something like maw for exemple. Hard mode wasnt rough at all, and I pulled 54k on stamblade. Nightblades aren't dead, but you gotta know where your limits are

54k on rak hm? When you can do 65-70k on a mag sorc? There is a reason all the top trials scores have 6-8 mag sorc dps, and 1-2 mag dk dps for buff and chains. It is because they pull much more damage than nightblades. So yes, when your best parse can be beaten by 10k+ with other toons, that means nightblades are dead. Regardless of "where your limits are" you are seriously handicapping not only yourself, but your whole team just due to your class choice. That is pretty much the basis of this thread.

Show me a 65-70k single target magicka sorc parse on Rakkhat hard mode.

Izaki

@Shadzilla I'm pretty sure that its well known that stamina builds are more than fine this patch and they are just as competitive as their magicka counterparts. They just require way more skill to play, to stay alive and to pull higher DPS, which is why magicka is usually preferred. In terms of DPS and sustain however, stamina is outclassing magicka in single target (by quite a nice margin actually). If you're unwilling to admit that all of the above is true then its most likely a L2P issue on your part.

ookami007

Rataroto wrote: »

for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.

Skellies parses mean nothing. You have no blocking, no dodging, no movement, NOTHING. You sit there and hit your rotation.

That's me saying I'm a great soldier and marksman, standing 5 feet away from a stationary target just pulling my trigger over and over again.

Mazbt

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Ya'll mistake being anything less than the absolute best according to the meta as dead. Seriously. I've played on the PTS, it's fine, from a magicka perspective I never enjoyed stamina so I'm honestly just rubbish at that. However, my magblade still dominates in PvE and PvP.

Remember this bit of wisdom... Mastery of a class > flavor of the patch builds.

So the selling point of the class is, once you have mastered it you can beat up people who just started playing?

Im not sure that is actual wisdom.

Shadzilla wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Rataroto wrote: »

for all you guys freaking the *** out, my skelly parses self buffed (100%), marking my own skelly are about 45k-47k, and I still haven't figured out a perfect timing on rotation. Also I'm not running what my envisioned build runs. And all of that with no sustain issues.

Hate to brake it to you buddy, but your solo skele parses mean nothing in a trial. You have access to minor berserk in your solo rotation, which everyone gets as a raid buff anyways. Along with your main spammable providing major fracture. I am glad you can do so much damage on a target skeleton, good job on taking advantage of the solo buffs nbs get that mean nothing in trial environments. If you would like to provide some parses from a trial boss, as to how much damage you can pull, that would be a much more appropriate argument. This thread is focused on the poor performance of nbs in end game trials, vma, and pvp. Along with the fact that they have never really been OP at anything except sustain, which never mattered until this patch, which was a convenient time to murder siphoning strikes RIP. They also have always been at the bottom of the dps barrel when it comes to trials.

It does scale less on trials, because they already have a buff built in. The skelly parse is just an exemple. Nightblades are not dead, they just require skill to play. I've touched the new trial the very first time today, and I died, yes, though I'm still learning where the damage comes from and ***. Lets take something like maw for exemple. Hard mode wasnt rough at all, and I pulled 54k on stamblade. Nightblades aren't dead, but you gotta know where your limits are

54k on rak hm? When you can do 65-70k on a mag sorc? There is a reason all the top trials scores have 6-8 mag sorc dps, and 1-2 mag dk dps for buff and chains. It is because they pull much more damage than nightblades. So yes, when your best parse can be beaten by 10k+ with other toons, that means nightblades are dead. Regardless of "where your limits are" you are seriously handicapping not only yourself, but your whole team just due to your class choice. That is pretty much the basis of this thread.

Who in the world do u run with? In the grand scheme of things in regards to players raiding in eso....very few are gonna pull 65 to 70k lol. I can probably just count on my hands the number of sorcs that can. Rat has more dps than a significant number of end game trial peeps. You are thinking way way too small.

Balsagna

I really enjoy my nightblade. I'll never be able to spend the time to join a hardcore trials guild, so the max dps or bust thing doesn't bother me. I can complete any content I want on my magblade. Oh well, guess ignorance is bliss, because magblade is a blast to play