Rip Nightblades (assuming they were alive at one point)
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ragingruby1991✭✭✭Everyone is just misinformed about the nightblade's place in the upcoming meta:
DK: Tank
Templar: Healer
Sorc: DD
Nightblade: materials/node farming
See! NB has a place!
8 -
Bazeric✭✭✭✭Looking for broken things in hopes they may be fixed. I've given up, my game literally works differently from yours.
64M+ AP across 9 toons... kinda makes me a GO4 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭
Haha that was brutal.0 -
Sosderosii✭✭✭The new ESO Live showed some promise for stamina Nightblades and if the Morrowind patch works as I expect, it will be a good first step towards making the class competitive again.
In PVP, the fact that other players use heavy attacks to restore resources should make our dodges and bash interrupts a lot more useful and maybe even discourage others to spam attacks at us because they will actually have to manage their resources.
They want now to make heavy attacks a lower damage but more resource restoring acts (which as squishy stamblades we will probably avoid except for situational occasions) and light attacks would be the higher DPS, especially in between other skills.
Our survivability and sustain should be improved also by the syphoning strikes health theft and another resource gain when ability ends. If we couple this with the new spectral bow and time it right, it would be a burst damage increase also.
I believe we will be able to be fairly competitive at least in the non-CP campaigns with this changes.1 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sosderosii wrote: »The new ESO Live showed some promise for stamina Nightblades and if the Morrowind patch works as I expect, it will be a good first step towards making the class competitive again.
In PVP, the fact that other players use heavy attacks to restore resources should make our dodges and bash interrupts a lot more useful and maybe even discourage others to spam attacks at us because they will actually have to manage their resources.
They want now to make heavy attacks a lower damage but more resource restoring acts (which as squishy stamblades we will probably avoid except for situational occasions) and light attacks would be the higher DPS, especially in between other skills.
Our survivability and sustain should be improved also by the syphoning strikes health theft and another resource gain when ability ends. If we couple this with the new spectral bow and time it right, it would be a burst damage increase also.
I believe we will be able to be fairly competitive at least in the non-CP campaigns with this changes.
Siphoning strikes was absolutely murdered. Stamina nightblades are not looking that great for morrowind, especially in PVE. Cloak is trash, and will not be fixed properly with attempt #846. The grim focus change is not good. I mean even in PVE when the boss is standing in one spot... Hitting 10 light attacks while weaving abilities and proccing the spectral bow twice within 20 seconds does not seem exactly "viable". The few good players that can play nightblades well in PVP, will probably stay the same caliber they are now. In PVE though, stamina everything is horrible along with both nightblade dps types. Nightblades need a lot more damage, in both single target and aoe, magicka and stamina based. Which would make some sort of sense considering they are supposed to be a natural damage output class.5 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Do you even take a look at my point, like at all? Do you even know what I am saying here? No?
Oh wait, this is a clear indication that you don't:hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.
I just don't understand why some people argue. No knowledge of their own AND no logical thinking
I really think they just come to troll and be all tough like "Know your place, you NB".
????? This has nothing to do with my point, at all. All I say is that there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class, the game is designed so that every class can take on any role, though some may overperforming and some may underperforming and those will need to be adjusted.
So, I encourage you to read my posts before commenting about it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.
Someone clearly has issues with showing off his E-something. Last time I checked, you agreed with my point: there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class in this game. A small part of the data I linked is 2-month outdated, but so what? Doesn't change the point at all.
Just amazed at how some people want to show off his E-something so badly. My points stand correctly, it's all that matter, all the stuns you made to twist it are worthless. Unless you have something to say about it, do you?Edited by hmsdragonfly on May 14, 2017 7:18AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@hmsdragonfly & @Shadzilla please stop your argument this post is about NBs.
And they are outclassed by sorcs and dks pve wise. In pvp nbs feel like the small brother of their sorc counterpart.
For anyone crying about the 800th cloak fix. Yes it sucks that cloak doesn't work right but it got better over the last year. The devs fix the problem by decreasing the number of things which pull you falsely out of cloak in every patch, so we need might see it in the future that cloak finally works fine again.
For pvp don't forget that stamnb suffers most under the heavy armor meta because they can't survive long fights as food as other classes and leave only small space for mistakes.
With the upcoming sustain changes many ppl will go LA or MA again making nbs all the more lethal again.0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Do you even take a look at my point, like at all? Do you even know what I am saying here? No?
Oh wait, this is a clear indication that you don't:hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.
I just don't understand why some people argue. No knowledge of their own AND no logical thinking I really think they just come to troll and be all tough like "Know your place, you NB".
????? This has nothing to do with my point, at all. All I say is that there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class, the game is designed so that every class can take on any role, though some may overperforming and some may underperforming and those will need to be adjusted.
So, I encourage you to read my posts before commenting about it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.
Someone clearly has issues with showing off his E-something. Last time I checked, you agreed with my point: there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class in this game. A small part of the data I linked is 2-month outdated, but so what? Doesn't change the point at all.
Just amazed at how some people want to show off his E-something so badly. My points stand correctly, it's all that matter, all the stuns you made to twist it are worthless. Unless you have something to say about it, do you?
1. Don't care. Found where you were wrong - called you out on it, showed that you have no idea what you are talking about.
2. Classes can perform all roles, but not equally. Therefore, no matter how it's technically called, yes there are such things as tank and dps classes. Simply because some classes are WAY ahead of some others in those roles.
3. No one really gives a tusk about the offtopic you're trying to bring. The thread is about NB and I look at everything you post in the context of balance and NB.
4. Also yes, you did sayhmsdragonfly wrote: »
DKs do pull more single target than Sorc, proof: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3960855/#Comment_3960855
all this just shows that you don't know much about balance. All you know is based on videos/screenshots, which shows how valuable your input about classes is. That's all.4 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Do you even take a look at my point, like at all? Do you even know what I am saying here? No?
Oh wait, this is a clear indication that you don't:hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.
I just don't understand why some people argue. No knowledge of their own AND no logical thinking I really think they just come to troll and be all tough like "Know your place, you NB".
????? This has nothing to do with my point, at all. All I say is that there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class, the game is designed so that every class can take on any role, though some may overperforming and some may underperforming and those will need to be adjusted.
So, I encourage you to read my posts before commenting about it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.
Someone clearly has issues with showing off his E-something. Last time I checked, you agreed with my point: there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class in this game. A small part of the data I linked is 2-month outdated, but so what? Doesn't change the point at all.
Just amazed at how some people want to show off his E-something so badly. My points stand correctly, it's all that matter, all the stuns you made to twist it are worthless. Unless you have something to say about it, do you?
Your point does not stand correctly, your butthurtness is hilarious. Keep embarrassing yourself further.
3 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Do you even take a look at my point, like at all? Do you even know what I am saying here? No?
Oh wait, this is a clear indication that you don't:hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.
I just don't understand why some people argue. No knowledge of their own AND no logical thinking I really think they just come to troll and be all tough like "Know your place, you NB".
????? This has nothing to do with my point, at all. All I say is that there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class, the game is designed so that every class can take on any role, though some may overperforming and some may underperforming and those will need to be adjusted.
So, I encourage you to read my posts before commenting about it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.
Someone clearly has issues with showing off his E-something. Last time I checked, you agreed with my point: there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class in this game. A small part of the data I linked is 2-month outdated, but so what? Doesn't change the point at all.
Just amazed at how some people want to show off his E-something so badly. My points stand correctly, it's all that matter, all the stuns you made to twist it are worthless. Unless you have something to say about it, do you?
1. Don't care. Found where you were wrong - called you out on it, showed that you have no idea what you are talking about.
2. Classes can perform all roles, but not equally. Therefore, no matter how it's technically called, yes there are such things as tank and dps classes. Simply because some classes are WAY ahead of some others in those roles.
3. No one really gives a tusk about the offtopic you're trying to bring. The thread is about NB and I look at everything you post in the context of balance and NB.
4. Also yes, you did sayhmsdragonfly wrote: »
DKs do pull more single target than Sorc, proof: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3960855/#Comment_3960855
all this just shows that you don't know much about balance. All you know is based on videos/screenshots, which shows how valuable your input about classes is. That's all.
1. And I said that I was wrong about that particular part, my data was 3-month outdated. But it doesn't change my point.
2. No, there's no such thing as tank class or DPS class. It doesn't matter how hard you try to twist it, DK DPS and Templar DPS do exist, alive and well, which makes your argument completely invalid. Sorcs are just overperforming, NBs are just underperforming, they will have to be adjusted, that's it.
3. Hypocritical much? You are also being completely off-topic. The topic is about Nightblade being underperforming, check again. Next time look at the mirror first, alright?
4. Check point one. It was widely believed by the community 2, 3 months ago that DK pulled more single target than Sorc, Alcast even said that StamDK pulled the highest single target DPS. I was convinced by all the data provided by the community. I am nobody, so why shouldn't I be convinced by the testing done by good and knowledgeable players? And, I don't know what you are talking about, I'm just a casual player, I haven't made any input about class balance whatsoever. I just refer people to inputs made by real knowledgeable players. So, what input of mine you are talking about?
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Do you even take a look at my point, like at all? Do you even know what I am saying here? No?
Oh wait, this is a clear indication that you don't:hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.
I just don't understand why some people argue. No knowledge of their own AND no logical thinking I really think they just come to troll and be all tough like "Know your place, you NB".
????? This has nothing to do with my point, at all. All I say is that there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class, the game is designed so that every class can take on any role, though some may overperforming and some may underperforming and those will need to be adjusted.
So, I encourage you to read my posts before commenting about it.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
You forget the fact that the guy didn't get 50k with magsorc either. For the same amount of skills, the guy (who is a good player) pulled more single target DPS with a DK than with a sorc. Are there any sorc that can pull 55k+ single target? There might be, but with that level of skills, he can certainly pull more than 55k+ single target with a DK. The fact that people are arguing whether a DK can pull more single target DPS than a sorc means that DK isn't designed as a tank class, else there's even no discussion. Sorcs have been rising since the pet and AOE buff, before that, Templar was the meta/FOTM in DPS. So, there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. There's meta, a class can perform slightly better than others in certain period of time, but it doesn't mean the game is envisioned so that DK can only tank or Templar can only heal in end-game content.
Anyway, we can continue with the off-topic discussion here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333075/top-dps-class-builds-currently-in-pve/p2
Do you have anything against my main point? No? OK. Then my points still stand correctly.
This sounds ignorant. If a guy who pulls 55k on a sorc can pull higher on a DK, then why would he play a sorc? he would just play a DK and post those higher numbers (even to show, or why do you think he posted any of the videos that were in this thread?). I don't think you understand how people pick classes. On that level - where people pull 40-50K+ single target - people compete for the score. And they don't play classes that "they like" or anything like that. They play what works better and gets the job done more efficiently. I'm sorry, but this argument of yours sounded less than convincing.
Read my previous comment. My data is 2-month outdated, it was believed that DK could pull more single target than a sorc but new data suggests that it's not the case anymore.
Yes it is outdated. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong in other things. Namely, I bolded the part I was commenting on. If he could, he would've already posted higher numbers.
You were already pointed that your data is outdated. But you still keep saying that they "certainly can pull more". But that's just chatter. It's not based on anything.
That's all.
Check out my last post artis, the man has been but in his place. The sheer fact that the guy was basing information off of 1 person's youtube channel is hilarious. Needs to actually run a trial, and do some parses himself, or at the very least ask somewhat knowledgeable people around him so he doesn't look so amateur.
Someone clearly has issues with showing off his E-something. Last time I checked, you agreed with my point: there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class in this game. A small part of the data I linked is 2-month outdated, but so what? Doesn't change the point at all.
Just amazed at how some people want to show off his E-something so badly. My points stand correctly, it's all that matter, all the stuns you made to twist it are worthless. Unless you have something to say about it, do you?
Your point does not stand correctly, your butthurtness is hilarious. Keep embarrassing yourself further.
My point does stand correctly. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Unless you have something to say about it, do you?
I don't have serious issue with E-something like you do, maybe you should find another person to compare the size of your E-something, because, I don't care :PEdited by hmsdragonfly on May 16, 2017 8:26AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU0cS4Rb5tY&t=837s
Magicka NB's PVE DPS seems to be okay. It would be even higher because of the LA buff.
But yeah in PVP, nightblades have it the hardest.0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »1. And I said that I was wrong about that particular part, my data was 3-month outdated. But it doesn't change my point.
2. No, there's no such thing as tank class or DPS class. It doesn't matter how hard you try to twist it, DK DPS and Templar DPS do exist, alive and well, which makes your argument completely invalid. Sorcs are just overperforming, NBs are just underperforming, they will have to be adjusted, that's it.
3. Hypocritical much? You are also being completely off-topic. The topic is about Nightblade being underperforming, check again. Next time look at the mirror first, alright?
4. Check point one. It was widely believed by the community 2, 3 months ago that DK pulled more single target than Sorc, Alcast even said that StamDK pulled the highest single target DPS. I was convinced by all the data provided by the community. I am nobody, so why shouldn't I be convinced by the testing done by good and knowledgeable players? And, I don't know what you are talking about, I'm just a casual player, I haven't made any input about class balance whatsoever. I just refer people to inputs made by real knowledgeable players. So, what input of mine you are talking about?
1. And yes, that changes everything. If you base your view of balance on outdated data collected by other players, then you have a long way to go. You don't even understand what's happening and why your opinion is just irrelevant.
2. They always outperfromed in those roles since release, don't forget templar healers. Therefore now - they are tank, DPS and healer classes. When and if they are adjusted - there will be no such thing as DPS or tank class. Right now there are. As long as certain classes are preferred in certain roles - there are tank, dps and healer classes.
3. Shove that argument up your arse. That worked in elementary school, not with adults . "Oh but you are you are". No I'm not. NB is underperforming. You started the offtopic, we are correcting you so no one reading this thread thinks what you said has any value.
4. Then how about you just sit quietly and listen. Your input that there's no tank/dps/healer classes just demonstrates that you don't understand the end game and don't understand the meta. We are not talking about leveling and questing here. We are talking about endgame - where performance is important and defines everything. DK pulls good numbers, too. That's why you see sorcs and DKs on leaderboards.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
My point does stand correctly. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Unless you have something to say about it, do you?
You have no idea what you are talking about and shouldn't say anything about this yourself. There absolutely is such thing as a tank or DPS class in this game. THE ONLY special case is a DK who's both the best tank and a good DPS.
As long as some class is strongly preferred for a certain roles - there's role-class combos. When the classes are adjusted so that they are equally represented in all roles - then your point will be correct. And we all want that too, but right now it's just false.HaruyukiHana wrote: »https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU0cS4Rb5tY&t=837s
Magicka NB's PVE DPS seems to be okay. It would be even higher because of the LA buff.
But yeah in PVP, nightblades have it the hardest.
LOL it's weaker than they are right now. Hopefully other classes get hit hard and are brought to this level too.4 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »1. And I said that I was wrong about that particular part, my data was 3-month outdated. But it doesn't change my point.
2. No, there's no such thing as tank class or DPS class. It doesn't matter how hard you try to twist it, DK DPS and Templar DPS do exist, alive and well, which makes your argument completely invalid. Sorcs are just overperforming, NBs are just underperforming, they will have to be adjusted, that's it.
3. Hypocritical much? You are also being completely off-topic. The topic is about Nightblade being underperforming, check again. Next time look at the mirror first, alright?
4. Check point one. It was widely believed by the community 2, 3 months ago that DK pulled more single target than Sorc, Alcast even said that StamDK pulled the highest single target DPS. I was convinced by all the data provided by the community. I am nobody, so why shouldn't I be convinced by the testing done by good and knowledgeable players? And, I don't know what you are talking about, I'm just a casual player, I haven't made any input about class balance whatsoever. I just refer people to inputs made by real knowledgeable players. So, what input of mine you are talking about?
1. And yes, that changes everything. If you base your view of balance on outdated data collected by other players, then you have a long way to go. You don't even understand what's happening and why your opinion is just irrelevant.
2. They always outperfromed in those roles since release, don't forget templar healers. Therefore now - they are tank, DPS and healer classes. When and if they are adjusted - there will be no such thing as DPS or tank class. Right now there are. As long as certain classes are preferred in certain roles - there are tank, dps and healer classes.
3. Shove that argument up your arse. That worked in elementary school, not with adults . "Oh but you are you are". No I'm not. NB is underperforming. You started the offtopic, we are correcting you so no one reading this thread thinks what you said has any value.
4. Then how about you just sit quietly and listen. Your input that there's no tank/dps/healer classes just demonstrates that you don't understand the end game and don't understand the meta. We are not talking about leveling and questing here. We are talking about endgame - where performance is important and defines everything. DK pulls good numbers, too. That's why you see sorcs and DKs on leaderboards.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
My point does stand correctly. There's no such thing as a DPS class or a tank class in this game. Unless you have something to say about it, do you?
You have no idea what you are talking about and shouldn't say anything about this yourself. There absolutely is such thing as a tank or DPS class in this game. THE ONLY special case is a DK who's both the best tank and a good DPS.
As long as some class is strongly preferred for a certain roles - there's role-class combos. When the classes are adjusted so that they are equally represented in all roles - then your point will be correct. And we all want that too, but right now it's just false.HaruyukiHana wrote: »https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU0cS4Rb5tY&t=837s
Magicka NB's PVE DPS seems to be okay. It would be even higher because of the LA buff.
But yeah in PVP, nightblades have it the hardest.
LOL it's weaker than they are right now. Hopefully other classes get hit hard and are brought to this level too.
1. So if i don't eat apple, my opinion about orange is irrelevant? Because my point is about how the game is designed to not have DPS class, tank class.
2. Doesn't matter. DK DPS and Templar DPS do exist, alive and well, so your argument is invalid, unless you can prove that DK DPS and Templar DPS don't exist. So just answer this question, are DK DPS and Templar DPS alive and well? Simple Yes/No.
3. I think I triggered someone lol. Yes you are. If you had only wanted to call me out about the mistake I made, you would have stopped long ago when I said very clearly that I was wrong about DK's single target DPS. Yet here you are, trying to chase a god-knows-what goal, calling me for being off-topic yet you are doing the same thing, like how a hypocrite would do.
4. How about you just sit quietly and listen, because my input that there's no tank class, or DPS class is totally correct and you haven't been able to prove otherwise. Do DK DPS and Templar DPS exist in endgame? Yes, they do. Sorcs are just overperforming and NBs are just underperforming, that's not how the game is designed to be, they will have to be adjusted. So, your point being? Very simple to prove me wrong: prove that there are no DK DPS and Templar DPS in endgame. Prove it.
And that very special case alone proves that there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class.Edited by hmsdragonfly on May 17, 2017 12:10AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭HaruyukiHana wrote: »https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU0cS4Rb5tY&t=837s
Magicka NB's PVE DPS seems to be okay. It would be even higher because of the LA buff.
But yeah in PVP, nightblades have it the hardest.
Is this sarcasm?
Seriously, because I want to know how the class that has the highest burst damage by far in PvP have it "the hardest".
That video someone posted today that has a MagBlade running around in stealth just 1 shotting everyone is the purest example of how strong NBs are in PvP.
Do you guys that complain about PvP just want to run around face tanking zergs or something? If so you picked the wrong class.
Go watch some of the good NB PvPers. They destroy people because they pick the perfect spots and play to their strengths and avoid lose lose situations. They understand counterplay and use it to their strengths.
Nightblades are essentially the rogues of ESO. Death from stealth - in and out. Huge burst damage. Not made to stand on the front lines taking damage from more than 1 person.
I still get killed when I forget defensive rune before I even finish falling off my horse.
I get recaps when I'm surprised by a stealthed NB killing me that has over 30k damage from Surprise Attack, Velidreth, and Incap. Just those 3 things back to back to back before I can even recast a shield.
The only class that can go stealth at will and get away when needed.
I wish I could DPS burst as effectively as a good Nightblade.
A DPS test against a target dummy is the worst way to judge how you're going to perform in PvP also.
I don't really care about PvE because I don't run with people that have insane requirments to run with them. If someone is requiring you to DPS test on a dummy or leaving you out because "We don't want a StamBlade" then screw em. There are plenty of really nice people and guilds that don't act that way and do Vet trials a lot and those are the people I choose to run with. If someone is looking for a fill-in and I respond and they want me to come DPS test at their house I tell them find someone else. Those people are toxic.Edited by grim_tactics on May 17, 2017 12:32AM0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »LOL it's weaker than they are right now. Hopefully other classes get hit hard and are brought to this level too.
1. So if i don't eat apple, my opinion about orange is irrelevant? Because my point is about how the game is designed to not have DPS class, tank class.
2. Doesn't matter. DK DPS and Templar DPS do exist, alive and well, so your argument is invalid, unless you can prove that DK DPS and Templar DPS don't exist. So just answer this question, are DK DPS and Templar DPS alive and well? Simple Yes/No.
3. I think I triggered someone lol. Yes you are. If you had only wanted to call me out about the mistake I made, you would have stopped long ago when I said very clearly that I was wrong about DK's single target DPS. Yet here you are, trying to chase a god-knows-what goal, calling me for being off-topic yet you are doing the same thing, like how a hypocrite would do.
4. How about you just sit quietly and listen, because my input that there's no tank class, or DPS class is totally correct and you haven't been able to prove otherwise. Do DK DPS and Templar DPS exist in endgame? Yes, they do. Sorcs are just overperforming and NBs are just underperforming, that's not how the game is designed to be, they will have to be adjusted. So, your point being? Very simple to prove me wrong: prove that there are no DK DPS and Templar DPS in endgame. Prove it.
And that very special case alone proves that there's no such thing as a DPS class, or a tank class. [/quote]
1. No, it's more like if you only read one paper, your opinion about that branch of science is irrelevant. Or less relevant than opinions of those who study and do research in that field, if you will. You are giving opinion about classes and their relationship, but you don't get any of it. It's not the fact that classes technically can do everything that defines the system, it's the fact that some classes are by far more efficient than others in certain roles that defines the meta and shows that there are, in fact, tank class, healer class..
2. No. Not alive and well. DK - yes, templar - not so much. NB - not at all. Don't ask me - open the leaderboards and see for yourself.
3. I suggest you open a dictionary right now to see what hypocrite means and stop embarrassing yourself.
4. No, a freshman doesn't tell a professor to sit and listen. You will sit and listen, because you have no idea what you are talking about. WHEN the game is adjusted AND all classes are performing equally in all roles THEN we'll say that there's no tank or healer class or whatever. As of RIGHT NOW AND ALL THE WAY SINCE PRE-RELEASE, DKs always were the best tanks, no contest, templars always were teh best healers, sorcs and dks -competed for top dps. You can tell the game isn't designed that way all you want, but the truth is - the game has always been like that. If it wasn't designed that way, the only sign of it is that YOU SAY it wasn't. But smart people don't care about words, they care about facts. And the fact is - this game has always had tank and healer class, and only a couple classes could deal good dps.
You are being ridiculous. "The game wasn't designed" is not even an argument. It has no value. The game was designed with softcaps and veteran ranks, but now we see none of that. The game was designed so that almost no one plays stamina in end-game content and especially pvp, thankfully we've come a long way from that point and it's not like that anymore. Well, now if the game wasn't designed to have tank class etc, then too bad - now we don't see that anymore either. And have never seen it, really.
That very special case doesn't prove crap, just that DKs are lucky and are Tank/dps class. Still - can't heal as well as templars and are represented by 0 players on leaderboards as healers.Edited by Artis on May 17, 2017 1:47AM1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭
1. No, it's more like if you only read one paper, your opinion about that branch of science is irrelevant. Or less relevant than opinions of those who study and do research in that field, if you will. You are giving opinion about classes and their relationship, but you don't get any of it. It's not the fact that classes technically can do everything that defines the system, it's the fact that some classes are by far more efficient than others in certain roles that defines the meta and shows that there are, in fact, tank class, healer class..
2. No. Not alive and well. DK - yes, templar - not so much. NB - not at all. Don't ask me - open the leaderboards and see for yourself.
3. I suggest you open a dictionary right now to see what hypocrite means and stop embarrassing yourself.
4. No, a freshman doesn't tell a professor to sit and listen. You will sit and listen, because you have no idea what you are talking about. WHEN the game is adjusted AND all classes are performing equally in all roles THEN we'll say that there's no tank or healer class or whatever. As of RIGHT NOW AND ALL THE WAY SINCE PRE-RELEASE, DKs always were the best tanks, no contest, templars always were teh best healers, sorcs and dks -competed for top dps. You can tell the game isn't designed that way all you want, but the truth is - the game has always been like that. If it wasn't designed that way, the only sign of it is that YOU SAY it wasn't. But smart people don't care about words, they care about facts. And the fact is - this game has always had tank and healer class, and only a couple classes could deal good dps.
You are being ridiculous. "The game wasn't designed" is not even an argument. It has no value. The game was designed with softcaps and veteran ranks, but now we see none of that. The game was designed so that almost no one plays stamina in end-game content and especially pvp, thankfully we've come a long way from that point and it's not like that anymore. Well, now if the game wasn't designed to have tank class etc, then too bad - now we don't see that anymore either. And have never seen it, really.
That very special case doesn't prove crap, just that DKs are lucky and are Tank/dps class. Still - can't heal as well as templars and are represented by 0 players on leaderboards as healers.
What's that quote?
1. Your comparison is completely off. Nice try. So, DK is the most effective in tanking, true, but does it mean Templar cannot tank? Before you say things like "But vet trials leaderboard is full of DK tanks so it means only DKs can tank", head to Cyrodiil. See how many Templar tanks out there. Well, Cyrodiil is full of Templar tanks. Or PvP isn't qualified to be "end-game"? You can also see Sorc tanks and NB sap tanks with a lot of success over there. As long as this is true, and as long as DK and Sorc DPS are alive and well, there's no such thing as a tank class, or a DPS class.
2. "No. Not alive and well. DK- yes" oh well, make up your mind. Still waiting for you to prove that DK DPS and Templar DPS don't exist.
3.hypocritical
ˌhɪpəˈkrɪtɪkl/
adjective
"behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case."
Insulting me for being off-topic yet you are doing the same thing. Sound close enough.
4. So you are a professor now. Clearly you also have E-something issue and you have a need to compare the size of your E-thingy with others. I will tell you something, I have no E-thingy issue so you can brag all day so you can brag all day how you are a Professor of ESO, like it means something to the advancement of humanity, I don't care about the size of your thing, full stop. But it's a fact that DK DPS and Templar DPS do exist, alive and well, we are talking about facts, right? So, as long as it is a fact, or you can prove that it's wrong (which you haven't been able to do), your argument is invalid, doesn't matter how fancy your words are put together, it's invalid.
Look, this is a dead end. We are here to repeat the same thing over and over again. This is a total waste of time. I am not going to change your mind. So let me keep this straight, I will not reply further until you can prove that DK DPS and Templar DPS don't exist in end-game. And don't say that they are just "lucky" to have good DPS, it will only embarrass yourself. So, I am waiting, "Professor of ESO".
Off-topic: @Tasear were you on leaderboard as a sorc or nightblade healer or something non-Templar?
Edited by hmsdragonfly on May 17, 2017 6:25AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »
What's that quote?
1. Your comparison is completely off. Nice try. So, DK is the most effective in tanking, true, but does it mean Templar cannot tank? Before you say things like "But vet trials leaderboard is full of DK tanks so it means only DKs can tank", head to Cyrodiil. See how many Templar tanks out there. Well, Cyrodiil is full of Templar tanks. Or PvP isn't qualified to be "end-game"? You can also see Sorc tanks and NB sap tanks with a lot of success over there. As long as this is true, and as long as DK and Sorc DPS are alive and well, there's no such thing as a tank class, or a DPS class.
2. "No. Not alive and well. DK- yes" oh well, make up your mind. Still waiting for you to prove that DK DPS and Templar DPS don't exist.
3.hypocritical
ˌhɪpəˈkrɪtɪkl/
adjective
"behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case."
Insulting me for being off-topic yet you are doing the same thing. Sound close enough.
4. So you are a professor now. Clearly you also have E-something issue and you have a need to compare the size of your E-thingy with others. I will tell you something, I have no E-thingy issue so you can brag all day so you can brag all day how you are a Professor of ESO, like it means something to the advancement of humanity, I don't care about the size of your thing, full stop. But it's a fact that DK DPS and Templar DPS do exist, alive and well, we are talking about facts, right? So, as long as it is a fact, or you can prove that it's wrong (which you haven't been able to do), your argument is invalid, doesn't matter how fancy your words are put together, it's invalid.
Look, this is a dead end. We are here to repeat the same thing over and over again. This is a total waste of time. I am not going to change your mind. So let me keep this straight, I will not reply further until you can prove that DK DPS and Templar DPS don't exist in end-game. And don't say that they are just "lucky" to have good DPS, it will only embarrass yourself. So, I am waiting, "Professor of ESO".
1. I'll repeat once again - it doesn't matter that everyone can technically pick up a shield and slot a taunt. If DK outperforms templar in tanking by far - that means that yes a templar can't or rather wont' tank. Because why bring a templar tank if I can invite a DK tank? Cyrodiil is irrelevant here, we were talking about pve including dps. The term dps is irrelevant in pvp.
2. DK dps exists. Templar dps? extremely rare. The amount is negligible so you can say they don't exist. It's just like sorc tanks. They exist and can technically tank. But almost no one wants them in a group if they had another option (DK).
3. Not close at all. I haven't started, I was just calling you out. You won't stop still, so gotta keep doing that.
4. No, I have no issues and don't compare sizes. You just wrong and I know more than you. I'm nowhere near top players and don't care and have no issues with that. NO, templar dps is not alive and well. What about stam templar, stam sorc, stam dk, any nb? And healer but templar? etc. How can't you grasp it, it's so easy. It doesn't matter that some build exists in question or normal dungeons and delves. You can farm your dolmens and RP with whatever you want. They are NOT alive and well in endgame, and that's the only place where it counts. Because that's where there are requirements and minimums to pass.
see, I'm not the one embarrassing myself. Now you just keep demonstrating how clueless you are, but not only in balance - this time you broke the laws of logic and debates. I am not about to prove a negative claim. Only after you prove that there's no invisible unicorn in the room and no teapot on the orbit. The burden of proof lies on you because you are making an affirmative claim. It's up to you to prove that every class-role combo is alive and well in pve endgame, where alive and well is defined by performance and representation on leaderboards, not by the fact that everyone can wear any weapons and queue in dungeon finder as any role. Say that there are no dps/tank/healer classes sounds as weird as saying that a person who has a resto staff and the bar filled with resto staff skills can be a dps or tank. yeah, technically he can, but his dps will be so low, that who cares?Edited by Artis on May 17, 2017 7:06AM0 -
Ashdroid✭✭✭I don't what you all are talking about. Nightblades are the absolute best in game
for pickpocketing guards
Plz come visit my wanted posters, bounty sheets, and polished shillings shop.Edited by Ashdroid on May 17, 2017 11:53AMPocketable Goods Reallocation Specialist
PS4 NA8 -
Ender1310✭✭✭✭I don't know what to say. NB day since day one never felt as strong as my level two skill having alts. Magick sorc is a beast at soloing. I have so much fun with their op ness that I don't even want them nerfed.0 -
Galwylin✭✭✭✭✭I don't think people should quit over the nightblade changes. Just do what I'm doing, switching over to sorcerer. So don't start nerfing them into the ground! Seriously, I like my nightblade. I hate that he's currently magicka instead of stamina simply because I got tired of all the death recaps. It sucks. They say they hear us yet it still sucks. Nothing comes from being heard apparently.
And all this *** about ZOS doesn't believe in roles. Then why aren't all of dragonknight's tanking abilities removed so they have the same number as nightblades. Same of templars. Remove those pesky healing passives and spells so you can use a resto staff like a proper healer. Its just crap. Of course they believe there are certain classes that are best at certain roles or they wouldn't be considered the best in those roles. You think people started playing this game and took a vote on who should be the tank class and who should be the healers? That's just stupid. Read the information when making a new character for gosh sakes! The game is what it is regardless of what you hear. Ever class should be able to do every role but we're only going to make one class better at certain ones? Sorry, Nightblades. We ran out of roles. What crap.
As for the nightblade, I've been playing since October. Started a nightblade. Meant to be my one and only. But over and over he kept getting hit with a nerf. Even the weekly maintenance's were nerfing them. Just bits and pieces. Here and there. Small changes until they started hitting with heavy ones. Put simply, they are the hardest to learn, play and level. When compared to the other three. And will probably lag behind wardens.
I will admit I was interested in Wrobel's comment about sneaky stuff. Whatever that means. But I think its time we demand nightblades be the best at everything because its pure crap what's been handed down to them. So, will your little game break if they are the best tanks, best healers, best dps? I dare you to show off your combat design skill, Eric. Do it! After all, Rich says most play a nightblade so make the most people happy. Let the others suck it. They enjoy watching it happen so let them experience it.5 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magica Night Blades are going to be very strong this patch, very strong after some play time.
Stamina in gerneral is going to be nice this patch and will find it's place into raid groups soon enough.
This is one of those threads like the Destro Ultinate sucks no one will use it, ZoS does not listen to us, the 2H Ultimate is OP, marked this thread for review in a couple of months.
My opinion is it will be close to dead wrong.Edited by acw37162 on May 19, 2017 8:26PM0 -
br0steen✭✭✭✭Yesssss keep these "nbs are dead rip" threads coming, I'm really excited for the corrections that will be put in because sooo many people complain. Nbs will be the king of everything soon, can't wait
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GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
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That was a detect pot.PS4 NA DC2 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
It is why we wear a costume and carry staves. Just hope no one notices the change once the trial starts...
Now if only people would stop asking me why I am a Khajiit Magika character. I can only lie so well....
That skeleton polymorph...1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
and....rfennell_ESO wrote: »Well, let's see.
(waits on stamina because of stealth)
Critical charge, viper (applied from 12 meters+ away), dawnbreaker->executioner from any fotm super speed 0 stats into regen max damage build (that never runs out of resources).
NM
Let's try again
(waits on stamina because of stealth)
Focused aim, focused aim, heavy attack->poison injection!
*dodge* *dodge* *dodge*
Critical charge, viper (applied from 12 meters+ away), dawnbreaker->executioner from any fotm super speed 0 stats into regen max damage build (that never runs out of resources).
GG
Sorcs shields are gone oh.. wait... he stacked new one and stunned me with Streak and then I died from 20 Haunting Curse explosions....
# Balance2 -
Galwylin✭✭✭✭✭Magica Night Blades are going to be very strong this patch, very strong after some play time.
Stamina in gerneral is going to be nice this patch and will find it's place into raid groups soon enough.
This is one of those threads like the Destro Ultinate sucks no one will use it ehtvfies ZoS not listen to us, the 2H Ultimate is OP, marked this thread for review ina couple of months.
My opinion is it will be close to dead wrong.
Honestly, I'd prefer stamina to be very strong this patch. I hate playing a hedge wizard. But even without this patch, which is offering little improvement to almost amount to none, they aren't now so not sure where you see this.1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »
What's that quote?
1. Your comparison is completely off. Nice try. So, DK is the most effective in tanking, true, but does it mean Templar cannot tank? Before you say things like "But vet trials leaderboard is full of DK tanks so it means only DKs can tank", head to Cyrodiil. See how many Templar tanks out there. Well, Cyrodiil is full of Templar tanks. Or PvP isn't qualified to be "end-game"? You can also see Sorc tanks and NB sap tanks with a lot of success over there. As long as this is true, and as long as DK and Sorc DPS are alive and well, there's no such thing as a tank class, or a DPS class.
2. "No. Not alive and well. DK- yes" oh well, make up your mind. Still waiting for you to prove that DK DPS and Templar DPS don't exist.
3.hypocritical
ˌhɪpəˈkrɪtɪkl/
adjective
"behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case."
Insulting me for being off-topic yet you are doing the same thing. Sound close enough.
4. So you are a professor now. Clearly you also have E-something issue and you have a need to compare the size of your E-thingy with others. I will tell you something, I have no E-thingy issue so you can brag all day so you can brag all day how you are a Professor of ESO, like it means something to the advancement of humanity, I don't care about the size of your thing, full stop. But it's a fact that DK DPS and Templar DPS do exist, alive and well, we are talking about facts, right? So, as long as it is a fact, or you can prove that it's wrong (which you haven't been able to do), your argument is invalid, doesn't matter how fancy your words are put together, it's invalid.
Look, this is a dead end. We are here to repeat the same thing over and over again. This is a total waste of time. I am not going to change your mind. So let me keep this straight, I will not reply further until you can prove that DK DPS and Templar DPS don't exist in end-game. And don't say that they are just "lucky" to have good DPS, it will only embarrass yourself. So, I am waiting, "Professor of ESO".
1. I'll repeat once again - it doesn't matter that everyone can technically pick up a shield and slot a taunt. If DK outperforms templar in tanking by far - that means that yes a templar can't or rather wont' tank. Because why bring a templar tank if I can invite a DK tank? Cyrodiil is irrelevant here, we were talking about pve including dps. The term dps is irrelevant in pvp.
2. DK dps exists. Templar dps? extremely rare. The amount is negligible so you can say they don't exist. It's just like sorc tanks. They exist and can technically tank. But almost no one wants them in a group if they had another option (DK).
3. Not close at all. I haven't started, I was just calling you out. You won't stop still, so gotta keep doing that.
4. No, I have no issues and don't compare sizes. You just wrong and I know more than you. I'm nowhere near top players and don't care and have no issues with that. NO, templar dps is not alive and well. What about stam templar, stam sorc, stam dk, any nb? And healer but templar? etc. How can't you grasp it, it's so easy. It doesn't matter that some build exists in question or normal dungeons and delves. You can farm your dolmens and RP with whatever you want. They are NOT alive and well in endgame, and that's the only place where it counts. Because that's where there are requirements and minimums to pass.
see, I'm not the one embarrassing myself. Now you just keep demonstrating how clueless you are, but not only in balance - this time you broke the laws of logic and debates. I am not about to prove a negative claim. Only after you prove that there's no invisible unicorn in the room and no teapot on the orbit. The burden of proof lies on you because you are making an affirmative claim. It's up to you to prove that every class-role combo is alive and well in pve endgame, where alive and well is defined by performance and representation on leaderboards, not by the fact that everyone can wear any weapons and queue in dungeon finder as any role. Say that there are no dps/tank/healer classes sounds as weird as saying that a person who has a resto staff and the bar filled with resto staff skills can be a dps or tank. yeah, technically he can, but his dps will be so low, that who cares?
1. Checkmate. PvP is a part of the end-game, your point is that there are DPS class, tank class in end-game, we were talking about the whole game, not just vet trials, we all know that vet trial's leaderboard is just a small part of the end-game. End-game: PvP, undaunted pledges (dungeons), vet trials, vMA, vet trial's leaderboard. Templar tanks do exist in end-game, alive and well, they are less effective in vet trials but they are more effective in PvP, and both DK and Templar can tank vet trials and PvP.
2. Extremely rare? Templar DDs were all over the place in One Tamriel and before that, while there are fewer of them in Homestead because sorc is OP af right now, Templar DDs still pull good DPS, and if you are going to argue that Templar's DPS is bad, I think Alcast and many great Templar DPS players will have some words with you.
3. And I said I was wrong about that particular part (DK's single target DPS) but then you continued to be off-topic, and told me that i was being off-topic. That's hypocritical.
4. Yes you do, you were bragging about how you are the "professor". See, this is your problem, you always say things like "You just wrong and I know more than you", but you haven't been able to prove me wrong at all. Templar DDs do pull good DPS, on roughly similar level as DK's DPS, it's common knowledge, unless you can prove that their DPS is bad, or are you just gonna say "Templar DPS is bad because I say so"?
The thing is that your logic is completely flawed. You think that if a class slightly outperforms others in a certain role doesn't mean other classes can't fill in that role, and yes we are talking about end-game. The fact that you are comparing Templar DPS to a DD with restro staff means that you know nothing and your logic is completely flawed. Templar DDs pull good DPS, DDs with restro staff don't. You are just embarrassing yourself with all the gibberish.
Templar tanks do exist in end-game. Don't believe? Go to Cyrodiil and try to kill thousands of Templar tanks, they are all over the place. Nightblade tanks do exist in endgame. Don't believe? Gilliamtherogue and KenaPKK will have a word with you. Sorc tanks do exist in endgame. Don't believe? Fengrush will have a word with you. DK DPS do exist in end-game. They are everywhere. Templar DPS do exist in end-game. Don't believe? Alcast will have a word with you. Checkmate. Your logic is flawed, your argument is invalid, want to prove me wrong, easy, what you have to do now is to prove that DK DPS and Templar DPS don't exist in end-game, you haven't been able to do so.
Deltia has Templar tank build for end-game. Gilliamtherogue and KenaPKK have Nightblade tank build for end-game. Fengrush has sorc tank build for end-game. Everyone (Deltia, Alcast, Gilliam etc, all of them) has Sorc/DK/Templar/NB DPS build for endgame. But guess what, all of those don't exist, according to Professor Artic. He knows more than all of these great players combined.Edited by hmsdragonfly on May 17, 2017 5:36PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭My main in stamina nightblade khajiit thief and it likes to do pve a lot. No resource issues, vigor for healing, passives for stealing and a cool armor. No complaints from this one.
No resource issues? Go into the PTS... Also check out the stealth damage nerf while your there.
No pve complaints? You obviously don't do any sort of end game dps like trials or dsa. Most of us do, which is why there are currently 4 threads on the front page of general discussion describing how bad nightblades are.
Why should I care about PTS? I don't play there, I'm not interested. They will nerf the stealth damage? Ok, should I complain? I prefer to adapt, as always.
Do you think all classes should be equally designed for doing the same content, just because you started a class and want it to be versatile in everything? I don't do trials with my Nightblade, yes, because I do real thievery, stealing, killing, assassinations with this one. Things the NB was designed for in my opinion, at least watching abilities and passives, especially for Khajiit.
I won't demand a sorcerer to be a good thief or templar to be great assassin.
But I have 8 characters, can do various content with different characters, and for this I love ESO.
If I know my NB isn't good for trails, I won't complain on forum to make it stronger but will relog to sorcerer or magDK and do trial with a finger in my ***. I did multiple trials or soloed end content but the class and build was my choice. I hate when all classes are equally created and all can do everything with same difficulty.PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."0 -
Rikkof✭✭✭I am sorry, what?
This is clearly a l2p issue, as the NB class IS ONE SHOTING PLAYERS IN PVP, from stealth
The ganked player cnat even react and it is dead, but i will post you videos as proof
NB is the MOST OP atm in pvp with theiur ganking, you just make these threads to derail the focus of the developers from teh elephant in teh room ( nb one shoting in pvp) to avoid nerf bat.2