Top dps class/builds currently in pve?

Alcast

Kinda depends on what bosses.

FOTM setup: MagSorc
Highest ST (on most fights): Stam DK.

The reason why you dont see stam dks is because their AoE on trashfight is inferior compared to magicka setups with Destro Ultis and in general it is more difficult to survive on Stamina toons.

But ye, Magicka Sorcerer is currently highly overperforming compared to other setups. Needs "adjusting"

Stamden

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Really sick and tired of the spreading of misinformation. Mag Sorc significantly outparses all other setups in a raid environment.

Well, I wouldn't say significally...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR3XR4qsNhA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oasQBA65JHE

It's technically 6.7%.

@Dantaria
Ha! Totally didnt realize you posted the same videos that I did. We should do a poll: Which parse is more desirable for the raid? Hint: if you say the sorc parse, you are wrong.

If you want to talk math, mDK is doing approx 10% more single target than the sorc.

mSorcs are perhaps winning for splash damage, but mDKs are ahead for pure single target in a raid setting.

My first statement: tell me again where the misinformation is exactly? @Neighbor

Even if we assume a perfect scenario where Mag DK can outparse a Mag Sorc (perfect rotation from DK, melee-friendly fight, executes aren't important, Sorc is missing a chromosome) then they will maybe end up doing a few thousand DPS single-target. In which case, you would still better off with a Mag Sorc because of the splash/aoe/trash clearing. If single-target was all the mattered, people would still bring stamina setups to trials.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Neighbor wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Really sick and tired of the spreading of misinformation. Mag Sorc significantly outparses all other setups in a raid environment.

Well, I wouldn't say significally...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR3XR4qsNhA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oasQBA65JHE

It's technically 6.7%.

@Dantaria
Ha! Totally didnt realize you posted the same videos that I did. We should do a poll: Which parse is more desirable for the raid? Hint: if you say the sorc parse, you are wrong.

If you want to talk math, mDK is doing approx 10% more single target than the sorc.

mSorcs are perhaps winning for splash damage, but mDKs are ahead for pure single target in a raid setting.

My first statement: tell me again where the misinformation is exactly? @Neighbor

Even if we assume a perfect scenario where Mag DK can outparse a Mag Sorc (perfect rotation from DK, melee-friendly fight, executes aren't important, Sorc is missing a chromosome) then they will maybe end up doing a few thousand DPS single-target. In which case, you would still better off with a Mag Sorc because of the splash/aoe/trash clearing. If single-target was all the mattered, people would still bring stamina setups to trials.

Actually, that is why you need both Sorcs and DKs in trials. You have never heard me say that mSorc is bad, heck I run one more often than not in our raid. I understand why they are flavor of the month. Let me also say this for the millionth time. Ease of rotation and melee/range is not relevant to the discussion of what is best. They are very relevant if the question is what is easiest to pull high DPS, but those are not the same thing. I am making my suggestions based on the fact that you have skilled people playing both.

The point that keeps getting missed, and all I am trying to say is that when you talk about the best DPS class, you need to define what you mean by top. Sorcs are capable of doing the most splash damage and therefore posting the highest number on most trial fights. However, most raid groups actually pushing score care more about the single target competent of a parse, rather than the whole parse itself. Single target is what burns bosses, and that is generally the limiting factor on score. Yes you need to do aoe damage to kill adds, but any magic build will do enough splash damage to take them out. mDK seem to on average do a little better than sorcs from a single target standpoint. That is also what I was trying to illustrate with those videos.

Dantaria

Neighbor wrote: »

In which case, you would still better off with a Mag Sorc because of the splash/aoe/trash clearing. If single-target was all the mattered, people would still bring stamina setups to trials.

No.

Madsorc is where it is now because of one simple reason: insane damage done purely from range.

Noone cares about trash clearing that much. Everything at end-game point clears trash. But magsorc? Magsorc then can stand everywhere on a boss fight. Everywhere. (Well... For as long as it's in range of Elemental Blockade )

People mostly don't bring stamina to competitive trial scene mainly because bow/bow setup s**k and then no matter how godlike your DPS is on target dummy you make only half of it. Stamina has to move constantly, and even that is in best case scenario when stamina can approach boss.

Magsorc? Pfff. We simply don't care Lazily sidestep out of AoE and calmly proceed recking the boss.

Not only magsorcs do great damage. They're also convenient.

Raghul

I think it depends on the setup, when i was testing magsorc on my dummie solo( applying drain myself) i could reach 36k with bsw setup and 41k with necro+pet setup(lightning frontbar). so actually with my pet setup wich does alot of splash damage i can reach 41k purely selfbuffed on single target. Highest i have seen on magdk is 39-40k with someone else applying drain for them. There might be ppl out there who go over that ofcourse. And ofcourse i understand this is not in a trial with full support so things might be different there.

Stamden

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I understand why they are flavor of the month.

Flavor of the month? More like flavor of the year. Mag Sorcs have been top tier ever since like 1.6. I don't know why your acting like this hasn't been common knowledge.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ease of rotation and melee/range is not relevant to the discussion of what is best. They are very relevant if the question is what is easiest to pull high DPS, but those are not the same thing. I am making my suggestions based on the fact that you have skilled people playing both.

Because ease of use is super important. If you take two perfect robots and put them in a lagless environment then yes, maybe, DKs can have comparable DPS to Sorcs. We are talking about humans playing on a laggy server though, in which case simpler = more consistent = better.

And this isn't even taking into consideration the fact that some fights are way more suited for ranged DPS, and once CP gets changed Mag DKs will be gated by magika like no other class is.

Dantaria wrote: »

Not only magsorcs do great damage. They're also convenient.

This. Exactly this. Even if Mag DKs did pull better single target DPS than Mag Sorcs (they don't), it is still not worth putting up all the BS that DKs have to deal with. Make a Sorc and you will have a much more enjoyable experience. And this statement applies to everything, not just DPS parses (Soloing content, VMA, PvP, etc).

ScooberSteve

Msorc are ahead by a huge margin just check out peoples training dummy tests. All single target

IronCrystal

Neighbor wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I understand why they are flavor of the month.

Flavor of the month? More like flavor of the year. Mag Sorcs have been top tier ever since like 1.6. I don't know why your acting like this hasn't been common knowledge.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ease of rotation and melee/range is not relevant to the discussion of what is best. They are very relevant if the question is what is easiest to pull high DPS, but those are not the same thing. I am making my suggestions based on the fact that you have skilled people playing both.

Because ease of use is super important. If you take two perfect robots and put them in a lagless environment then yes, maybe, DKs can have comparable DPS to Sorcs. We are talking about humans playing on a laggy server though, in which case simpler = more consistent = better.

And this isn't even taking into consideration the fact that some fights are way more suited for ranged DPS, and once CP gets changed Mag DKs will be gated by magika like no other class is.

Dantaria wrote: »

Not only magsorcs do great damage. They're also convenient.

This. Exactly this. Even if Mag DKs did pull better single target DPS than Mag Sorcs (they don't), it is still not worth putting up all the BS that DKs have to deal with. Make a Sorc and you will have a much more enjoyable experience. And this statement applies to everything, not just DPS parses (Soloing content, VMA, PvP, etc).

But convenience doesn't get you the highest scores. I haven't seen a single raid that runs 8 sorcs for a very good reason. Ease of use means nothing to top tier raids. They will use what will perform the best. Also, stamina does pull higher single target (stamDK) but has *** survivability (no shields, and dodge rolling doesn't do *** in a trial) so not used very much.

MagDK will pull higher single target than MagSorc in any raid between two people of equivalent skill.

In a raid, you aren't gonna use 8 ranged dps. Almost every group I run with has 3-4 melee dps. Some are magDK some are magplars.

You also have to think about what utility each class brings to a raid.

MagDK brings engulfing flames which increases everyone's fire damage by 10% and chains which are useful in some fights.

MagSorcs bring nice trash clearing AOE and minor vulnerability from lightning damage.

Also, no need to talk about CP changes as we are talking current patch and don't have all the info on the next patch yet. Who knows, DK could get buffed magicka regen.

Dantaria

Neighbor wrote: »

Because ease of use is super important. If you take two perfect robots and put them in a lagless environment then yes, maybe, DKs can have comparable DPS to Sorcs. We are talking about humans playing on a laggy server though, in which case simpler = more consistent = better.

Dantaria wrote: »

Not only magsorcs do great damage. They're also convenient.

This. Exactly this. Even if Mag DKs did pull better single target DPS than Mag Sorcs (they don't), it is still not worth putting up all the BS that DKs have to deal with. Make a Sorc and you will have a much more enjoyable experience. And this statement applies to everything, not just DPS parses (Soloing content, VMA, PvP, etc).

No, simpler != (doesn't equal) better

People are dufferent You (like me, for example) tend to panic and mash buttons and start underperforming in dangerous situation? Yep, take magsorc, it's more forgiving But some people perform better under the pressure. Some like to play dangerously, some like to live dangerously "Better" is subjective here.

+. I'm not pro-gamer, so I can only voice an opinion based on what I see. Magsorc would not outDPS magDK on single if it wasn't for Volatile Familiar. ZoS overdid pets, imo. If it wasn't for Volatile Familiar + Daedric Prey combo... MagDK would be kings as they were before pets overhaul. And they would be "better" in terms of numbers.

So what do you want? Safety or numbers or burst? "Better" is subjective.

Callous2208

I just wish I could still effectively do stuff on my stamplar.

FlyLionel

Callous2208 wrote: »

I just wish I could still effectively do stuff on my stamplar.

Im on a stamina nightblade, S.O.S

Magdk should pull the highest single target dps, they are top dogs in dots etc, but magsorc always been easymode; aint nothing changed. Zos loves them some magsorc.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Neighbor wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I understand why they are flavor of the month.

Flavor of the month? More like flavor of the year. Mag Sorcs have been top tier ever since like 1.6. I don't know why your acting like this hasn't been common knowledge.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ease of rotation and melee/range is not relevant to the discussion of what is best. They are very relevant if the question is what is easiest to pull high DPS, but those are not the same thing. I am making my suggestions based on the fact that you have skilled people playing both.

Because ease of use is super important. If you take two perfect robots and put them in a lagless environment then yes, maybe, DKs can have comparable DPS to Sorcs. We are talking about humans playing on a laggy server though, in which case simpler = more consistent = better.

And this isn't even taking into consideration the fact that some fights are way more suited for ranged DPS, and once CP gets changed Mag DKs will be gated by magika like no other class is.

Dantaria wrote: »

Not only magsorcs do great damage. They're also convenient.

This. Exactly this. Even if Mag DKs did pull better single target DPS than Mag Sorcs (they don't), it is still not worth putting up all the BS that DKs have to deal with. Make a Sorc and you will have a much more enjoyable experience. And this statement applies to everything, not just DPS parses (Soloing content, VMA, PvP, etc).

@Neighbor
End of the day, you and I view the call of the question differently. You keep talking about ease of play. That is meaningless to top tier raid groups where everyone is capable of hitting their rotation. Not to mention, that sorcs in good raids play in the stack like everyone else for most of the fight anyways. We still want our combat prayer and that sort of thing. VMOL 1st Boss? in the stack and spread for curses. 2nd Boss, i am standing right on top of the boss as if I were playing DK. Last boss on regular, right in the stack unless running meteors or back room. Last boss HM, I stand about a foot behind the stack, but only because I have the curse as I am first back team. This notion that sorcs are DPSing from halfway across the room is not the case in any raid capable of pushing scores.

Also, sorcs are certainly not flavor of the year. This is a very recent situation from a PVE raid standpoint. If you had done a poll last patch, nobody would be saying sorcs were best. Last patch, Templar was the FOTM by a long shot. Sorc unquestionably got the biggest benefit from the change to the destro skills last patch, and that is what has put them in the spotlight. Additionally, pets got a noticeable buff and curse become much more fluid in the rotation. Last patch sorcs had probably the worst sustain (templar was close) and the choppiest rotation save maybe mageblade. Do you not remember (not that long ago) when people were raging about their sorcs? Half the forum signatures you saw read RIP -"insert random name"- Magic Sorc.

Don't worry, sorcs have a nerf coming. They admittedly overtuned pets a bit (again something nobody ran until this patch). Pets are however not viable in all fights, so running a pet build has it's drawbacks.

peniku8

Magsorc has slightly less single target than stam or mag DK but it's still awesome doing close to 80k dps on the Mage
Especially when your focus are minimages and you can run all over the place if you want to

Zarrakon

I don't think pets are necessarily 'overtuned' (admittedly, I say this as a sorcerer who runs a pet). It does cost 2 slots (3 if you want to keep it alive, since you need ward on the pet for it to live through AOEs in a lot of trials fights), has terrible AI/pathing and occasionally refuses orders on targeting. Also, in some fights, the mechanics destroy it (e.g. the first 2 bosses in vMoL, you have to resummon it at least after every pillar phase/prayer). Pets are strong when they stay alive, but there are downsides to using them.

I think the volatile familiar is in a good place; it's really not as easy to use competitively in trials as you might think.

GwJSVDShark

Neighbor wrote: »

Mag Sorc significantly outparses all other setups in a raid environment. If you cherry pick data and examples, then it will look like DKs can compete. However, DKs have several problems that other classes don't have to deal with:
1. Melee only
2. Massive inconsistencies with DPS (Slow to startup due to all the DoTs, huge DPS trough when Standard isn't up)
3. Constrained by mana worse than every other class (which will be even worse once CP gets changed)

To OP: Just play Mag Sorc

yeap, agreed.

DKs just cannot seem to find good DPs, not ranged and not much good use other than tanks pulling the bosses to them while some one else DPS's and keeps him healed.

While a Mag Sorc can range, has buffs for replenishing magica, and can self heal mid battle, with some skill you can go on for a very long time DPS'sing with range attacks and healing you and your party. Honestly no one does it better. A cool trick is to use your destro staff with Pulsar skill, reduces the enemy health bar immediately, then drop a meteor ultimate which does a ton of damage and knocks them back. Or you can drop a Negate Magic ultimate, which stuns the enemy, and they cannot cast spells, while it hurts them or heals you and yours. mean while you Crystal Shard them to Oblivion. Works wonders for bosses as they just stand there looking dumb while you bombard them from a safe distance. Anyway, these have worked wonders for me. Also the pets can work as mini tanks for you as enemies will go after the pets while you range attack them.

Templars are very good too because of their healing skills, they have DPS big time, and heals big time too. Their best main attack is Puncturing Sweep, which hits real hard, and heals you. You can approach the enemies and light them all up with Purifying Light, which burns them and then they have a pool of light about them which heals you and your friends, so they come at you burning, then as long as they are near they heal you, so you cast a Rune Focus where you stand, which heals you as well, then hit them hard with Puncturing Sweep, so now you're DPSing, and healing you and your buds all at once. Use the destro staff only so that while you're doing this you fill your ultimate, then zap them with Pulsar to lower their health, and use the destro staff ultimate to cook them all around you. Works great in Dolmens and PVP.

I found Nikghtblade only good with surprise attacks and is all stam, with medium armor for buffs. So once your initial surprise attack is done, you're bait for every one else.

Anyway, that's my experience.

GwJSVDShark

Callous2208 wrote: »

I just wish I could still effectively do stuff on my stamplar.

You could go to the Rededication Shrine and exchange all that stam and health for Magika

Then load up your Aedric Spear, Dawn's Wrath and Destro Staff skills, go do a few dolmens and WB and level up real nice.

I did that to mine as she just could not hold her ground as a Stamplar

IronCrystal

GwJSVDShark wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Mag Sorc significantly outparses all other setups in a raid environment. If you cherry pick data and examples, then it will look like DKs can compete. However, DKs have several problems that other classes don't have to deal with:
1. Melee only
2. Massive inconsistencies with DPS (Slow to startup due to all the DoTs, huge DPS trough when Standard isn't up)
3. Constrained by mana worse than every other class (which will be even worse once CP gets changed)

To OP: Just play Mag Sorc

yeap, agreed.

DKs just cannot seem to find good DPs, not ranged and not much good use other than tanks pulling the bosses to them while some one else DPS's and keeps him healed.

While a Mag Sorc can range, has buffs for replenishing magica, and can self heal mid battle, with some skill you can go on for a very long time DPS'sing with range attacks and healing you and your party. Honestly no one does it better. A cool trick is to use your destro staff with Pulsar skill, reduces the enemy health bar immediately, then drop a meteor ultimate which does a ton of damage and knocks them back. Or you can drop a Negate Magic ultimate, which stuns the enemy, and they cannot cast spells, while it hurts them or heals you and yours. mean while you Crystal Shard them to Oblivion. Works wonders for bosses as they just stand there looking dumb while you bombard them from a safe distance. Anyway, these have worked wonders for me. Also the pets can work as mini tanks for you as enemies will go after the pets while you range attack them.

Templars are very good too because of their healing skills, they have DPS big time, and heals big time too. Their best main attack is Puncturing Sweep, which hits real hard, and heals you. You can approach the enemies and light them all up with Purifying Light, which burns them and then they have a pool of light about them which heals you and your friends, so they come at you burning, then as long as they are near they heal you, so you cast a Rune Focus where you stand, which heals you as well, then hit them hard with Puncturing Sweep, so now you're DPSing, and healing you and your buds all at once. Use the destro staff only so that while you're doing this you fill your ultimate, then zap them with Pulsar to lower their health, and use the destro staff ultimate to cook them all around you. Works great in Dolmens and PVP.

I found Nikghtblade only good with surprise attacks and is all stam, with medium armor for buffs. So once your initial surprise attack is done, you're bait for every one else.

Anyway, that's my experience.

Reading this post, this is not about vet trials lol. You wouldn't do any of that in a vet trial.

GwJSVDShark

IronCrystal wrote: »

Reading this post, this is not about vet trials lol. You wouldn't do any of that in a vet trial.

This is what I do when am in Vet Trials. Normally run about with my templar healing and DPSing as above

Izaki

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Actually magic Sorc is not first. It's in second or maybe even third. mSorcs are perhaps winning for splash damage, but mDKs are ahead for pure single target in a raid setting. If you look at parses of some of the best of the best, you will see slightly higher Total DPS parses out of sorcs on certain fights, but the single target DPS on the boss is higher on DK.

Also, there are still credible people (Alcast for example) claiming they still get the highest parses on templar in a raid setting. They were in first latch patch IMO. Sorc is in the spotlight at the moment, because it is very easy to cheese 35k DPS, which is new ground for a lot of people. At the extreme end of things, they are not in first place for single target.

As for mNBs, I do think they are better than last patch, but they are still in 4th place in the magic race. You can still pull very good numbers with them, but they are like 95% as good as sorc, with 125% of the required effort. I actually think playing mNB is good training for a sorc. Haha

I mean... Pets Sorcs are performing way better than any other class in both single target and AoE... Yeah mDK is great and all... But Daedric Prey + Scamp is just too performant

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Zarrakon wrote: »

I don't think pets are necessarily 'overtuned' (admittedly, I say this as a sorcerer who runs a pet). It does cost 2 slots (3 if you want to keep it alive, since you need ward on the pet for it to live through AOEs in a lot of trials fights), has terrible AI/pathing and occasionally refuses orders on targeting. Also, in some fights, the mechanics destroy it (e.g. the first 2 bosses in vMoL, you have to resummon it at least after every pillar phase/prayer). Pets are strong when they stay alive, but there are downsides to using them.

I think the volatile familiar is in a good place; it's really not as easy to use competitively in trials as you might think.

I agree with most of that. I would trade a a little less DPS from the pet for better functionality for sure. I have been going back and forth with one in VMOL and it definitley has draw backs. One obvious fix IMO would be to have your pets automatically target anything that you hit with daedric prey. You basically lose 2 globals every time your pet dies, and the first 2 VMOL bosses have mechanics that will one shot your pet.

IronCrystal

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Actually magic Sorc is not first. It's in second or maybe even third. mSorcs are perhaps winning for splash damage, but mDKs are ahead for pure single target in a raid setting. If you look at parses of some of the best of the best, you will see slightly higher Total DPS parses out of sorcs on certain fights, but the single target DPS on the boss is higher on DK.

Also, there are still credible people (Alcast for example) claiming they still get the highest parses on templar in a raid setting. They were in first latch patch IMO. Sorc is in the spotlight at the moment, because it is very easy to cheese 35k DPS, which is new ground for a lot of people. At the extreme end of things, they are not in first place for single target.

As for mNBs, I do think they are better than last patch, but they are still in 4th place in the magic race. You can still pull very good numbers with them, but they are like 95% as good as sorc, with 125% of the required effort. I actually think playing mNB is good training for a sorc. Haha

I mean... Pets Sorcs are performing way better than any other class in both single target and AoE... Yeah mDK is great and all... But Daedric Prey + Scamp is just too performant

I agree that pet sorcs will pull more single target, but using a pet is pretty situational and you definitely don't want all your sorcs in a trial using pets. Most times I've seen groups either not allow pets or not more than one person use the pet.

EDIT: One very recent example of a pet problem was on the Warrior in hm hrc. When the warrior does his Starfall, it attacks all enemies and does splash damage. Well, the pets attract their own starfall and we had someone's pet kill a dps because it stacked perfectly inside of him and he took double the damage.

Izaki

IronCrystal wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Actually magic Sorc is not first. It's in second or maybe even third. mSorcs are perhaps winning for splash damage, but mDKs are ahead for pure single target in a raid setting. If you look at parses of some of the best of the best, you will see slightly higher Total DPS parses out of sorcs on certain fights, but the single target DPS on the boss is higher on DK.

Also, there are still credible people (Alcast for example) claiming they still get the highest parses on templar in a raid setting. They were in first latch patch IMO. Sorc is in the spotlight at the moment, because it is very easy to cheese 35k DPS, which is new ground for a lot of people. At the extreme end of things, they are not in first place for single target.

As for mNBs, I do think they are better than last patch, but they are still in 4th place in the magic race. You can still pull very good numbers with them, but they are like 95% as good as sorc, with 125% of the required effort. I actually think playing mNB is good training for a sorc. Haha

I mean... Pets Sorcs are performing way better than any other class in both single target and AoE... Yeah mDK is great and all... But Daedric Prey + Scamp is just too performant

I agree that pet sorcs will pull more single target, but using a pet is pretty situational and you definitely don't want all your sorcs in a trial using pets. Most times I've seen groups either not allow pets or not more than one person use the pet.

Sure but the only fights where you can't use the pet is the Mage and the Warrior... About the buff stealing, well apparently pets can't be healed at full health, so they can't get SPC, at least from the testing we've done after what @GilGalad has told me. So they will most likely steal the PA buff rather than SPC. And lets face it, PA isn't that much of a DPS boost compared to a pet.

Izaki

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

I don't think pets are necessarily 'overtuned' (admittedly, I say this as a sorcerer who runs a pet). It does cost 2 slots (3 if you want to keep it alive, since you need ward on the pet for it to live through AOEs in a lot of trials fights), has terrible AI/pathing and occasionally refuses orders on targeting. Also, in some fights, the mechanics destroy it (e.g. the first 2 bosses in vMoL, you have to resummon it at least after every pillar phase/prayer). Pets are strong when they stay alive, but there are downsides to using them.

I think the volatile familiar is in a good place; it's really not as easy to use competitively in trials as you might think.

I agree with most of that. I would trade a a little less DPS from the pet for better functionality for sure. I have been going back and forth with one in VMOL and it definitley has draw backs. One obvious fix IMO would be to have your pets automatically target anything that you hit with daedric prey. You basically lose 2 globals every time your pet dies, and the first 2 VMOL bosses have mechanics that will one shot your pet.

Sure, but losing 2 weaves every Prayer Phase or every Pillar Phase isn't enough to warrant not using a pet. It will largely out do the damage lost resummoning it. Btw, I agree about the clunkiness of pets. Its just that its really hard to justify not using them.

Khaos_Bane

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

I don't think pets are necessarily 'overtuned' (admittedly, I say this as a sorcerer who runs a pet). It does cost 2 slots (3 if you want to keep it alive, since you need ward on the pet for it to live through AOEs in a lot of trials fights), has terrible AI/pathing and occasionally refuses orders on targeting. Also, in some fights, the mechanics destroy it (e.g. the first 2 bosses in vMoL, you have to resummon it at least after every pillar phase/prayer). Pets are strong when they stay alive, but there are downsides to using them.

I think the volatile familiar is in a good place; it's really not as easy to use competitively in trials as you might think.

I agree with most of that. I would trade a a little less DPS from the pet for better functionality for sure. I have been going back and forth with one in VMOL and it definitley has draw backs. One obvious fix IMO would be to have your pets automatically target anything that you hit with daedric prey. You basically lose 2 globals every time your pet dies, and the first 2 VMOL bosses have mechanics that will one shot your pet.

Sure, but losing 2 weaves every Prayer Phase or every Pillar Phase isn't enough to warrant not using a pet. It will largely out do the damage lost resummoning it. Btw, I agree about the clunkiness of pets. Its just that its really hard to justify not using them.

This is why it irritated me they buffed the pet rather than something else. Now I have to run that dumb obnoxious uncontrollable pet. This game fails at pet control completely but they keep pushing the frikkin pets.

DivyathFyr

Alcast wrote: »

Kinda depends on what bosses.

FOTM setup: MagSorc
Highest ST (on most fights): Stam DK.

The reason why you dont see stam dks is because their AoE on trashfight is inferior compared to magicka setups with Destro Ultis and in general it is more difficult to survive on Stamina toons.

But ye, Magicka Sorcerer is currently highly overperforming compared to other setups. Needs "adjusting"

What up alcast fan if youe channel!
Anyway how are magic nightblades dps wise compared to other magicka classes/builds?
Because i enjoy magicka the most i currently main a magic sorc and also have a magic templar i was thinking of trying magicka nightblade but i keep hearing bad things like its the worst magicka class of them all it has the lowest dps and its also the most squishy?
If that is true then i might as well stick to what i got they just look supe coop with the dark/red theme they got going haha

Shadzilla

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Actually magic Sorc is not first. It's in second or maybe even third. mSorcs are perhaps winning for splash damage, but mDKs are ahead for pure single target in a raid setting. If you look at parses of some of the best of the best, you will see slightly higher Total DPS parses out of sorcs on certain fights, but the single target DPS on the boss is higher on DK.

Also, there are still credible people (Alcast for example) claiming they still get the highest parses on templar in a raid setting. They were in first latch patch IMO. Sorc is in the spotlight at the moment, because it is very easy to cheese 35k DPS, which is new ground for a lot of people. At the extreme end of things, they are not in first place for single target.

As for mNBs, I do think they are better than last patch, but they are still in 4th place in the magic race. You can still pull very good numbers with them, but they are like 95% as good as sorc, with 125% of the required effort. I actually think playing mNB is good training for a sorc. Haha

Really sick and tired of the spreading of misinformation. Mag Sorc significantly outparses all other setups in a raid environment. If you cherry pick data and examples, then it will look like DKs can compete. However, DKs have several problems that other classes don't have to deal with:
1. Melee only
2. Massive inconsistencies with DPS (Slow to startup due to all the DoTs, huge DPS trough when Standard isn't up)
3. Constrained by mana worse than every other class (which will be even worse once CP gets changed)

To OP: Just play Mag Sorc

@Neighbor
Your arguments make absolutely no sense. 1. Obviously mDKs play melee, what does that have to do with anything if talking about DPS. Most good groups have 5-6 melee DPS. Melee has historically pulled more DPS. It should as its harder to play. 2. Yes, DKs take a while to get rolling, but we are talking about trial DPS on fights that last several minutes. 3. If you cant sustain any class, you have poor support or a L2P issue. DK sustain is just fine thanks to their battle roar passive. Either way, sustain is not relevant to the conversation. We are talking about damage, and all 4 magic classes are perfectly sustainable in a proper group.

As for DPS, I am not cherry picking anything. Sorcs are certainly the flavor of the month, and they can parse very high, perhaps the highest on boss fights with a ton of adds. Their splash damage is in first place. What I am trying to suggest that in these trial fights, what most competitive groups care about is not the total damage you parse on a fight, but the single target damage you do on a boss. That is what is relevent for burning through certain mechanics and raw score in a trial.

In terms of Single Target DPS, mDKs are ahead of sorc right now. Just as an example (from Yolo's homepage):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR3XR4qsNhA

mDK: 60.7k Total DPS, 49.3K Single Target DPS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oasQBA65JHE

mSorc: 64.5k Total DPS, 44.8k Single Target DPS

I wont claim that one set of parses are definitive, but it illustrates a very valid point. If you think the second parse is more desirable, you are quite mistaken.

Are there any mag dk parses topping 55k single target? I see 55k+ single target from mag sorcs... I mean none of these parses breach 50...

Zarrakon

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Actually magic Sorc is not first. It's in second or maybe even third. mSorcs are perhaps winning for splash damage, but mDKs are ahead for pure single target in a raid setting. If you look at parses of some of the best of the best, you will see slightly higher Total DPS parses out of sorcs on certain fights, but the single target DPS on the boss is higher on DK.

Also, there are still credible people (Alcast for example) claiming they still get the highest parses on templar in a raid setting. They were in first latch patch IMO. Sorc is in the spotlight at the moment, because it is very easy to cheese 35k DPS, which is new ground for a lot of people. At the extreme end of things, they are not in first place for single target.

As for mNBs, I do think they are better than last patch, but they are still in 4th place in the magic race. You can still pull very good numbers with them, but they are like 95% as good as sorc, with 125% of the required effort. I actually think playing mNB is good training for a sorc. Haha

I mean... Pets Sorcs are performing way better than any other class in both single target and AoE... Yeah mDK is great and all... But Daedric Prey + Scamp is just too performant

I agree that pet sorcs will pull more single target, but using a pet is pretty situational and you definitely don't want all your sorcs in a trial using pets. Most times I've seen groups either not allow pets or not more than one person use the pet.

Sure but the only fights where you can't use the pet is the Mage and the Warrior... About the buff stealing, well apparently pets can't be healed at full health, so they can't get SPC, at least from the testing we've done after what @GilGalad has told me. So they will most likely steal the PA buff rather than SPC. And lets face it, PA isn't that much of a DPS boost compared to a pet.

I've used pets (several times) just fine on the mage and the warrior. You can't use the pet on the Serpent in hard mode because world shaper kills it every time. You can't use it against Ra-Kotu or the Lightning Storm Atronach without slotting ward, and you have to be really on top of controlling it to use it against the twins (I often have it stick to the wrong twin, and I have to be careful not to use the pulse until the adds have spawned to not give them CC immunity).

valkaneer2b14_ESO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xag3H9YHT9s&t=196s