Joy's thoughts on Templars in Morrowind: they just aren't fun anymore

lunalitetempler

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

Disagree, love my templer, even more so now. I think DPS should manage their own resources! No me..

Go play your templar solo in PvP for a while and let me know how you feel about the class after that.

I have on pts thanks! Still love Templer, don't be mad because not everyone agrees. Its just childish.

Minno

@Joy_Division

Good post! My feelings as well.

Ron_Burgundy_79

lunalitetempler wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

Disagree, love my templer, even more so now. I think DPS should manage their own resources! No me..

Go play your templar solo in PvP for a while and let me know how you feel about the class after that.

I have on pts thanks! Still love Templer, don't be mad because not everyone agrees. Its just childish.

Someone disagrees so he or she is childish. Templars are the worst solo PvP class by quite a bit due to the lack of a reliable cc and no mobility buffs. If you enjoyed playing your templar in solo PvP, then you probably don't care much about dying.

Ashtaris

Well considering the major nerf they did to sustain and lack of positive changes for the Nightblade class, and the lack of any positive changes in the 3.0.1 patch notes, I'll probably retire my Nightblade and cancel my Morrowind pre-order. I just can't see any fun playing that character anymore. I also have a Templar healer that I use for many of my dungeon runs and hate to see the fun being stripped from that character as well.

Idinuse

Mush55

This is what you get when players want all classes to be good at every thing, a Loss of uniqueness and diversity

Yirmeyahu

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

Disagree, love my templer, even more so now. I think DPS should manage their own resources! No me..

Go play your templar solo in PvP for a while and let me know how you feel about the class after that.

I have on pts thanks! Still love Templer, don't be mad because not everyone agrees. Its just childish.

Someone disagrees so he or she is childish. Templars are the worst solo PvP class by quite a bit due to the lack of a reliable cc and no mobility buffs. If you enjoyed playing your templar in solo PvP, then you probably don't care much about dying.

I'm pretty sure you're just feeding the (obvious) troll.

NightbladeMechanics

10/10 post Joy. I don't think all of the Templar nerfs were uncalled for, but some of the recent ones have left me scratching my head. I definitely see how the soul of a Templar is degraded with the repentance and shards nerfs.

This eclipse buff is op though.

parkham wrote: »

How do you ensure class uniqueness while also maintaining:

Class power balance
PVE and PVP balance
Replayabilty
ZOS profits

Are you implying a balanced, fun, and profitable game can't have unique classes?

Ron_Burgundy_79

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

10/10 post Joy. I don't think all of the Templar nerfs were uncalled for, but some of the recent ones have left me scratching my head. I definitely see how the soul of a Templar is degraded with the repentance and shards nerfs.

This eclipse buff is op though.

parkham wrote: »

How do you ensure class uniqueness while also maintaining:

Class power balance
PVE and PVP balance
Replayabilty
ZOS profits

Are implying a balanced, fun, and profitable game can't have unique classes?

We understand your pain as a mageblade @NightbladeMechanics but we would appreciate it if you forgot about eclipse

LeifErickson

Templar became unfun when they removed the cc from shards.

NightbladeMechanics

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

10/10 post Joy. I don't think all of the Templar nerfs were uncalled for, but some of the recent ones have left me scratching my head. I definitely see how the soul of a Templar is degraded with the repentance and shards nerfs.

This eclipse buff is op though.

parkham wrote: »

How do you ensure class uniqueness while also maintaining:

Class power balance
PVE and PVP balance
Replayabilty
ZOS profits

Are implying a balanced, fun, and profitable game can't have unique classes?

We understand your pain as a mageblade @NightbladeMechanics but we would appreciate it if you forgot about eclipse

I dun want to get rekt doe.

Um..

Yay 58% uptime on uncounterable reflect unless I become an immov pot chugging potato or slot a 7k magicka cost purge!

Is that enough forced enthusiasm for you, my new magplar overlords?

Ron_Burgundy_79

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

10/10 post Joy. I don't think all of the Templar nerfs were uncalled for, but some of the recent ones have left me scratching my head. I definitely see how the soul of a Templar is degraded with the repentance and shards nerfs.

This eclipse buff is op though.

parkham wrote: »

How do you ensure class uniqueness while also maintaining:

Class power balance
PVE and PVP balance
Replayabilty
ZOS profits

Are implying a balanced, fun, and profitable game can't have unique classes?

We understand your pain as a mageblade @NightbladeMechanics but we would appreciate it if you forgot about eclipse

I dun want to get rekt doe.

Um..

Yay 58% uptime on uncounterable reflect unless I become an immov pot chugging potato or slot a 7k magicka cost purge!

Is that enough forced enthusiasm for you, my new magplar overlords?

Yeah it's OP. I wish they would just make it the templar form of wings. That would at least give the caster the option to attack someone else rather than no one at all.

PvP magplars would be ecstatic if ZOS would just reimplement the blazing spear cc.

dodgehopper_ESO

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

10/10 post Joy. I don't think all of the Templar nerfs were uncalled for, but some of the recent ones have left me scratching my head. I definitely see how the soul of a Templar is degraded with the repentance and shards nerfs.

This eclipse buff is op though.

parkham wrote: »

How do you ensure class uniqueness while also maintaining:

Class power balance
PVE and PVP balance
Replayabilty
ZOS profits

Are implying a balanced, fun, and profitable game can't have unique classes?

We understand your pain as a mageblade @NightbladeMechanics but we would appreciate it if you forgot about eclipse

I dun want to get rekt doe.

Um..

Yay 58% uptime on uncounterable reflect unless I become an immov pot chugging potato or slot a 7k magicka cost purge!

Is that enough forced enthusiasm for you, my new magplar overlords?

Yeah it's OP. I wish they would just make it the templar form of wings. That would at least give the caster the option to attack someone else rather than no one at all.

PvP magplars would be ecstatic if ZOS would just reimplement the blazing spear cc.

I've been wishing Eclipse were the Templar form of Flappy as well. It would just be a lot simpler for them to balance and cease the annoyance. By the way, I really think they should change the way Reflects work in the game. Reflect should be a percentage chance not 100% and give it a reasonable duration in the 20-30 second range. This would make it useful without it being overpowered. Someone with an overload could hurt themselves, but wouldn't get completely locked out and could make the kill if they have the advantage. I've been suggesting this idea for a long time. I dislike the mechanic of Eclipse for a lot of reasons, and really wish they would just turn it into a flappy move. I also would love if they'd bring back cinders, flame cloak, and blinding flashes (among other things). They could very easily adjust the effects of Cinders/Blinding Flashes if they didn't like the way blinding miss chance worked. On the matter of the Templar Charge its been buggy as long as I recall. I quit using it ages ago because I got tired of getting stuck in hillsides, stairs, rocks, water, etc. I got tired of getting stuck mid animation. Additionally the skill is just a lot slower than lotus fan or surprise attack and far less reliable. That sums up most of the skills in the Templar Toolkit: Unreliable, sloppy, sluggish, and buggy.

NightbladeMechanics

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

10/10 post Joy. I don't think all of the Templar nerfs were uncalled for, but some of the recent ones have left me scratching my head. I definitely see how the soul of a Templar is degraded with the repentance and shards nerfs.

This eclipse buff is op though.

parkham wrote: »

How do you ensure class uniqueness while also maintaining:

Class power balance
PVE and PVP balance
Replayabilty
ZOS profits

Are implying a balanced, fun, and profitable game can't have unique classes?

We understand your pain as a mageblade @NightbladeMechanics but we would appreciate it if you forgot about eclipse

I dun want to get rekt doe.

Um..

Yay 58% uptime on uncounterable reflect unless I become an immov pot chugging potato or slot a 7k magicka cost purge!

Is that enough forced enthusiasm for you, my new magplar overlords?

Yeah it's OP. I wish they would just make it the templar form of wings. That would at least give the caster the option to attack someone else rather than no one at all.

PvP magplars would be ecstatic if ZOS would just reimplement the blazing spear cc.

Yea people would love that. I wish they'd revert the stun nerf on shards and the stam return nerf on repentance.

I don't want templars, dks, and wardens to have a self-buff reflect. What if templar eclipse was made to apply its bubble to an ALLY, but NOT the templar itself, and the bubble reflect 3 projectiles fired at that ally?

lunalitetempler

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

Disagree, love my templer, even more so now. I think DPS should manage their own resources! No me..

Go play your templar solo in PvP for a while and let me know how you feel about the class after that.

I have on pts thanks! Still love Templer, don't be mad because not everyone agrees. Its just childish.

Someone disagrees so he or she is childish. Templars are the worst solo PvP class by quite a bit due to the lack of a reliable cc and no mobility buffs. If you enjoyed playing your templar in solo PvP, then you probably don't care much about dying.

Lol far from!

Majeure

100% agreed with OP,

Templar is getting homogenized so bad right now, hopefully there's some light at the end of the tunnel though. Magplar might be more desired in groups due to reliable spear shard synergy now that everyone has to pop their own, and this makes spears useful to the magicka heavy meta.

Maybe some other changes incoming yet, like replacing that terrible healing ritual with something actually useful.

Minno

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

10/10 post Joy. I don't think all of the Templar nerfs were uncalled for, but some of the recent ones have left me scratching my head. I definitely see how the soul of a Templar is degraded with the repentance and shards nerfs.

This eclipse buff is op though.

parkham wrote: »

How do you ensure class uniqueness while also maintaining:

Class power balance
PVE and PVP balance
Replayabilty
ZOS profits

Are implying a balanced, fun, and profitable game can't have unique classes?

We understand your pain as a mageblade @NightbladeMechanics but we would appreciate it if you forgot about eclipse

I dun want to get rekt doe.

Um..

Yay 58% uptime on uncounterable reflect unless I become an immov pot chugging potato or slot a 7k magicka cost purge!

Is that enough forced enthusiasm for you, my new magplar overlords?

Yeah it's OP. I wish they would just make it the templar form of wings. That would at least give the caster the option to attack someone else rather than no one at all.

PvP magplars would be ecstatic if ZOS would just reimplement the blazing spear cc.

Yea people would love that. I wish they'd revert the stun nerf on shards and the stam return nerf on repentance.

I don't want templars, dks, and wardens to have a self-buff reflect. What if templar eclipse was made to apply its bubble to an ALLY, but NOT the templar itself, and the bubble reflect 3 projectiles fired at that ally?

As long as the dps morph still hits any enemy.

I'm loving the fact that purifing light, jabs, and unstable core allow me to have consistent dps in PvP ignoring dodge/reflects to help offset the fact my main CC ability gets ignored on block, my sustain is trash, and I have to pull my mobility from a stamina source or roll vamp.

Ron_Burgundy_79

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

10/10 post Joy. I don't think all of the Templar nerfs were uncalled for, but some of the recent ones have left me scratching my head. I definitely see how the soul of a Templar is degraded with the repentance and shards nerfs.

This eclipse buff is op though.

parkham wrote: »

How do you ensure class uniqueness while also maintaining:

Class power balance
PVE and PVP balance
Replayabilty
ZOS profits

Are implying a balanced, fun, and profitable game can't have unique classes?

We understand your pain as a mageblade @NightbladeMechanics but we would appreciate it if you forgot about eclipse

I dun want to get rekt doe.

Um..

Yay 58% uptime on uncounterable reflect unless I become an immov pot chugging potato or slot a 7k magicka cost purge!

Is that enough forced enthusiasm for you, my new magplar overlords?

Yeah it's OP. I wish they would just make it the templar form of wings. That would at least give the caster the option to attack someone else rather than no one at all.

PvP magplars would be ecstatic if ZOS would just reimplement the blazing spear cc.

Yea people would love that. I wish they'd revert the stun nerf on shards and the stam return nerf on repentance.

I don't want templars, dks, and wardens to have a self-buff reflect. What if templar eclipse was made to apply its bubble to an ALLY, but NOT the templar itself, and the bubble reflect 3 projectiles fired at that ally?

It wouldn't bother me much as I rarely slot it anyways. Honestly eclipse is @Joy_Division 's baby. The blazing spear cc is where my soap box has been located for the past few months.

JavaWho

Joy_Division wrote: »

I want the soul back on my templar. And it pains me you cannot grant that because of the direction you took ESO.

Joy_Division .. your entire quote although most impressive was simply to long to paste again. Great job.

I have been playing the Templar for a very long time, I recall my learning curve and changes very well. Some changes I liked some I did not, yet I was always able to overcome. I do not like and do not feel I can or want to overcome the current changes.

I have supported countless players in my role as a Templar and Raided End Game for myself. Right now the soul in my character is also ripped from all the losses.

ZOS according to today's patch notes is not hearing any of the player base in these written threads but are continuing forth with their business plan.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Finn @ZOS_RichLambert

Ashamray

I can understand your sorrow, yes, Templars lost some nice things, and group gameplay has been damaged.
But we also received renewed Backlash which is strong, we received a beatiful finisher which is strong despite of numerous nerfs, we received BoL in its cool, clever form.
I miss Aedric shield and old old Eclipse. I miss Blinding Flashes but that skill would be completely OP nowadays. I don't miss old Purge coz purging projectiles was a bug definetely.

Purge is the last line of Templar's barricade, hehe. It's a flawless ability that is very strong. When it will be tuned down, only then I'll share your gloomy mood, @Joy_Division

Ron_Burgundy_79

@austinwalter87ub17_ESO Here you go.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

@austinwalter87ub17_ESO Here you go.

Thank you Ron.

And @Joy_Division
I don't entirely see eye to eye with you on a few things. I disagree that there is a reason to run Templar now over the others. Simply because, what's left of what we're good at, isn't fun or unique anymore. Even though we might possess a slight edge over the others in raw healing power. Our function as a unique support has been redistributed to the majority.

This alone kills the incentive to play as a templar, or choose one over the others. The raw healing power isn't even necessary in most content, and our support is gone. Players will be better off running previously less than ideal healer classes for their own unique support they bring on top of what ZOS homogenized.

dodgehopper_ESO

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

10/10 post Joy. I don't think all of the Templar nerfs were uncalled for, but some of the recent ones have left me scratching my head. I definitely see how the soul of a Templar is degraded with the repentance and shards nerfs.

This eclipse buff is op though.

parkham wrote: »

How do you ensure class uniqueness while also maintaining:

Class power balance
PVE and PVP balance
Replayabilty
ZOS profits

Are implying a balanced, fun, and profitable game can't have unique classes?

We understand your pain as a mageblade @NightbladeMechanics but we would appreciate it if you forgot about eclipse

I dun want to get rekt doe.

Um..

Yay 58% uptime on uncounterable reflect unless I become an immov pot chugging potato or slot a 7k magicka cost purge!

Is that enough forced enthusiasm for you, my new magplar overlords?

Yeah it's OP. I wish they would just make it the templar form of wings. That would at least give the caster the option to attack someone else rather than no one at all.

PvP magplars would be ecstatic if ZOS would just reimplement the blazing spear cc.

Yea people would love that. I wish they'd revert the stun nerf on shards and the stam return nerf on repentance.

I don't want templars, dks, and wardens to have a self-buff reflect. What if templar eclipse was made to apply its bubble to an ALLY, but NOT the templar itself, and the bubble reflect 3 projectiles fired at that ally?

It wouldn't bother me much as I rarely slot it anyways. Honestly eclipse is @Joy_Division 's baby. The blazing spear cc is where my soap box has been located for the past few months.

It wouldn't bother me either primarily because I've always been more the Knightly sort of Templar, and less the brown or white robe wearing Monk/Priest type.

Dyride

Bravo Joy, this one cries for Templars.

makreth

Joy_Division wrote: »

• Puncturing Strikes stunned targets and healed for more. Now no more stun (instead just a snare) and it heals for much less.
• Biting Jabs stunned targets and acted as quasi execute. Now it just snares and gives a generic buff available elsewhere.
• Focused Charge was fast, responsive, and managed to hit opponents without the need for unpurgable auto-snare. Now it’s slow, bugs out, and places a snare on my opponents even if they are using a specific ability that makes them immune.
• Spear Shards stunned an opponent, had a longer relative range to other skills before Battle Spirit, and gave me the conscious ability to provide stamina to my allies. Now it doesn’t stun, I do not have a choice what resource it restores, and every other class can replicate this once unique ability via the Undaunted Skill line. Also, this used to tick twice as fast and thus twice as many Burning Light procs
• Blazing Shield was once a functional defense shield for all templars as it was based off health, an attribute the game’s mechanics used to encourage us to invest in. Now it’s a suboptimal choice for all templars excepting niche builds that stack max health.
• The Balanced Warrior passive used to benefit all templar’s damage. Now it only does so for “stamplars”
• Eclipse use to always reflect just about everything in the game for 7.2 seconds and had no targeting restrictions. Now only one morph only reflects projectiles and it only lasts for 3.5 seconds.
• I use to have a skill called Blinding Flashes that gave melee opponents a unique miss chance debuff. It’s now gone.
• The Restoring Spirit passive used to restore magicka when casting a Dawn’s Wrath ability. Now it’s just a generic small cost reduction (that is subject to diminishing returns).
• The Remembrance ultimate morph used to provide my allies with damage reduction. Now it doesn’t.
• Breath of Life once had an additional heal and no targeting restrictions.
• Restoring Aura once provided allies (and the templar) a bonus to their stam recovery not available anywhere else in the game. Now it debuffs six enemies with a generic debuff that restores magicka to my allies if they attack specific target.
• Repentance once restored health and stamina to the templar and her allies from corpses. Right now it is the last of the mechanics in ESO that once reward successful smaller sized groups overcome disorganized masses. On the PTS, this is gone as it’s just a situational AoE heal and only the templar gains stamina.
• Cleansing ritual used to cleanse debuffs and incoming projectiles. Now, no more projectiles and it’s more expensive.
• Focused Healing passive once gave me a unique 30% healing buff to allies standing in my protective circles. Now this is called Mending and gives a 12% buff if I am standing in my protective circles. If I combine it with the new Sacred Ground Passive, I can get an additional 8%. So in total 10% less.
• Mending once passive gave me a higher chance to critically heal a low health target. This is now gone completely.

It's enough to make a Templar cry.

Wow i remember all things and how templar felt unique. Comparing "yesterday" with "today" or even "tomorrow" I really feel sorry for the templar class. It does indeed start to become a generic class. Shame.

Joy_Division

Appreciate the many kind words.

When I look at Templars today, there are only 4 things in the entire class line that I would take over the old Templars:

• Backlash: This actually was terrible at Launch.
• Piercing Javelin: But it's the same skill just with longer range
• Honor the Dead: They fixed the bug that prevented magicka regen
• I guess Dark Flare: it does like 10% extra damage

Speaking in Dark Flare. Why did ZoS decide to make the Cliff Racer spell undodgeable because it "was too obvious" and thus too easy for opponents to do so? Has ZoS ever seen the animation for Dark Flare?!?

I know RD is good, but it's only good when I have the advantage in a fight. When Templars say we'd rather have Blinding Flashes, we actually mean it.

Did some things deserve to be nerfed? Absolutely. But ZoS didn't have to tear the soul out of the class and I still think it's is dumb that every class has had to sacrifice their uniqueness because so much power is invested in the CP system, the generic buffs, lack of soft caps, etc. You know what I say to all those people who think DKs were OP after the whole 4 cost Vampire Bats bug was fixed? I say bring on the old DKs, tell Murder Thumbs to log back into his old account. Now that I actually know how to play this game, give me the Templar listed above and I will wipe the floor with them. I will Blinding Flash, Eclipse, Cleanse Spam, and Blazing Shield their butts such that these so-called “gods” will be coming on these forums begging the devs for buffs. And even if I lose, I think the PvP would be a hell of a lot more interesting.

@NightbladeMechanics Regarding Eclipse, I guess we will just have to wait and see. I highly doubt anybody on the NA server has used this skill more than I have and I'm not buying what Zos is selling.

My main problem with the current incarnation of Eclipse is that it only reflect projectiles. What good does this do against every stamina spec I come across? The vast majority of projectiles I get hit with are Poison Injection and Snipe. Poison Injection is just typically a one-time cast and I'm only sniped by people I can't see in the first place. So what exactly am reflecting and how is this helping me in a fight? Stamplars do love Binding Javelin way too much, but ...they're templars, they can simply purge it. Or ignore it and do what every other stam spec will do to me: spam Wrecking Blow for those 3 seconds, enjoy the free CC immunity, and simply reapply poison injection then. The damage from this skill is low and it's still expensive.

As for magic builds, most DKs I run into do nothing but hold block and talon spam me, which makes Eclipse pointless. My Templar opponents laugh at this skill because they either purge it or know they can simply ignore it by sweeping me and RDing me (and thus getting free CC immunity in the process). This spell used to be fantastic against sorcerers, but now curse, Mage's Fury, crushing shock, and even heavy lighting staff are not reflectable, so like Templars that means they can ignore it and enjoy the CC immunity. Mag NBs are highly vulnerable to this spell because unlike sorcerers, everything they use is a projectile. OK, though isn't this class kind of suffering in PvP right now? Why would I use a niche ability against them?

People worried about this skill are only looking at things from their perspective; how it will effect their build. But their opinion isn't going effect Eclipse will be used.. The one that counts is the Templar since we're the ones who have to weigh the opportunity cost. Since it's pretty much useless against the vast majority of opponents I face and only helpful against what is considered a weak spec ... why would I slot it?

The is what I use on my bars for Cyrodiil.

1. Defensive Posture - this is far better because it lasts 20 seconds, protects me against all spell casters, is very difficult for my opponents to see, stuns the enemy, gives me good passive block bonus.
2. Restoring Focus - not negotiable in the next patch
3. Extended Ritual - not negotiable in any patch.
4. Honor the Dead - Mandatory
5. Vampire Mist - Until Wrobel gives us an alliance war skill that allows magicka player to be mobile, this will always be on my bar. And when that day comes, the hypothetical mobility skill goes on it, not Eclipse.

1. Purifying Light - I don't have a single damage skill yet and this is a good one and can heal me too.
2. Puncturing Sweep - Bread and butter melee skill
3. Radiant Destruction - Never leave home without it
4. Reflective Light - Good Dot, snares, gives me 10% crit.
5. Elemental Drain - Highly efficient skill against every opponent I face.

Every skill I have is more useful against the vast majority of opponents I face so I'm not even going to consider Eclipse until the day comes when Mag NBs become a menace in Cyrodiil. And even then, Harness Magicka is effective Vs. them ... and everyone else. If I had two extra slots to put on my bar, I would use Toppling Charge and either Destructive Reach or Javelin or Dark Flare.

The only consideration I would give Eclipse this patch is to use the Unstable Core morph which reflect nothing. This morph also has the explosion time down to 3.5 seconds and I could use it as a poor man's Curse. It's still pretty expensive and unfortunately can be blocked, but I will fool around with it and see how it goes.

But all of this assumes I'm going to spend enough time on my Templar to care. My DK was AvA rank 24 when Imperial City was released and is only rank 27 now. Once a class ceases to be fun, I do not have problems moving on.

When Morrowind drops, I'm sure we will see a fair number of Templars try this skill. After a few weeks, I suspect they will come to understand just like the previous 3 incarnations, Eclipse is too situational of a defensive spell to count on. Since ESO only allows us ten skills, most will not slot it. Except in a duel against a Mag NB. Hopefully the NB will complain on the forums loud enough to prompt ZoS to once against change Eclipse.

If asked for my prediction, I do think after the Eclipse fad quickly runs its course, more and more Templars will experiment with the Unstable Core morph and come to realize it does have strong potential as an offense burst spell, although it is still expensive and resources are going to be an issue.

If I am wrong, feel free to bring this up. Although I have strong opinions, when wrong I will admit it rather than make excuses.

@JavaWho long time no see! Pretty sure most of us - and I suspect a fair number of other players on other classes - are feeling the same way.

@Ashamray has indeed identified the last bastion of Templar uniqueness: Purifying Ritual. It took one on the chin from ZoS this patch now only granting minor mending, but it's still there. Very much akin to people who are over 100 years old: all their friends & contemporaries have long since died, living in a world very different from the one they came of age, the very last link to a historical era that is just memories for everyone else. The day Purifying Ritual is nerfed will be the day that more than the templar's soul died, that will be the day the class is truly dead.

Normally I don't tag developers so I didn't think of it. Thank you Java for thinking this was something they should read.

Carbonised

Here, I thought you might need this:



Sorry, I couldn't help it

On a more serious note, I do agree with your thoughts, and the homogenization of classes leading to less fun and diversity.

And while I don't play a templar, I feel for your losses, especially since my mDK also feels trashed with these new changes and all my class specific nerfs. Playing my mDK doesn't really feel that fun anymore, and it will feel even less fun come Morrowind =/

NightbladeMechanics

Joy_Division wrote: »

Mag NBs are highly vulnerable to this spell because unlike sorcerers, everything they use is a projectile. OK, though isn't this class kind of suffering in PvP right now? Why would I use a niche ability against them?

I read your post, but this is the tldr of the eclipse portion.

First, just because you wouldn't use it does not mean no one else will. And yes, if you ran into me in Battlegrounds, you would use it.

Second, can we allow a skill to be op and lack counterplay if it's only op and lacks counterplay against one suffering class? I'd rather balance eclipse, make it useful in more general situations and therefore competitive for your bar, and not have it be op in any situation, no matter how niche.

I hope you're right and eclipse doesn't catch on. If it does, I'll have to either build around immov pots and ground aoes (objectively weaker builds than my usual play styles), always carry groups with me, or avoid magplars altogether. I won't have a choice. Building around purge isn't an option because it costs too much. The magplar would win the spam battle.

You see, eclipse itself is only the material danger. Just the threat that a templar could be running the ability will impact my judgment when engaging enemies in open world, and templars will inevitably begin slotting it when they know I'm in the area or in their Battlegrounds match.

The PTS eclipse might as well read "when you take lightning damage, you become untargetable for 5 seconds. This effect can occur once every 9 seconds." Three out of the four classes shrug it off, but sorcs lose their minds. Or "target cannot heal allies for 3.5 seconds. Target gains cc immunity when this effect ends." Magplars would be hit disproportionately hard by that. Eclipse just shouldn't exist in its new form.

technohic

I'm sure eclipse will have plenty of use on sorc rerolls. Shards is still reflectable; right? New sorcs will be unable to resist hitting that proc.

Still; since it's projtile only; there are a lot of abilities that ignore reflect now. Matriarch was a good target for free heals at one time but I think they all get set to passive now so no point. I miss predicting someone's burst but it's just too situational now

Lucky28

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I agree 100% with you, Joy. On everything. ZoS has literally torn our class apart. It's quite sad. Once hitting Grand Overlord, I'm most likely going to go even more casual and just retire to a life of raid healing and questing. My small group playstyle is pretty much dead with the Repentance changes. And like Gina so happily pointed out with a winky-face, they don't plan to revert Repentance because it's "free", totally ignoring the fact that you spend tons of resources earning your kill for that "free" stamina.

Idk, ZoS' direction for Morrowind is horrible. I really have no faith.

yeah pretty much haven't had any motivation to play even on live since the PTS came out. i'm rather shocked that Morrowind managed to top gap-closer hell as the worst patch ever.