Joy's thoughts on Templars in Morrowind: they just aren't fun anymore

Vaoh · May 2017

Very well written. You've touched on basically everything and I can't really add anything here you haven't already said.

As a PS4 player, I have only seen changes since console launch. In this amount of time, I have also seen Templars in particular recieve tons of nerfs that remove their uniqueness. If I mained a Templar I would be very sad over ZOS's incompetance.

CMz · May 2017

I love to see posts like this - and others Joy has contributed on the Morrowind patch changes. It speaks to the broader topic of why we game and why we pick AND stick with our favorite games. Gamers will either adapt or leave when tectonic shifts like those proposed here dramatically alter the landscape of a favored games play. For me it comes down to the enjoyment the game play delivers; and when changes come, to the extent it is a natural evolution of mechanics and does not take that pleasure out of the experience then i simply adapt. In the case of the Morrowind changes, far too much, far too broad, far too fast and - for me - the impact is deeply emotionally draining. The course changes have drained all the early anticipation of seeing my beloved Morrowind come back to life in ESO. Worse, it has drained most all of the daily anticipation of ending a work day or entering a weekend really looking forward to adventuring in Tamriel, battling through Imperial City and throwing new builds and techniques against trials and pledges. These proposals have sucked all the joy out of ESO, all the motivation to get home and log in, and much of the love I have for this game. Now I boot the launcher and just stare at it and all too often, just shut it back down.

As a healer main with 5 magplars; I've just dropped my leveling play for the two newer ones. I've stopped leveling my two new magblades, my baby magsorc, and when i work up marginal enthusiasm to get on at all - it is only to run my hirelings and *** around with leveling skills on two magDK's. The only thing that consistently pulls me back in game are all the friends I've made dating back to beta - and those are rapidly thinning ranks.

ZOS - it's not just about the numbers - it is really about our hearts and the love we have for the Elder Scrolls franchise. You can hear the complaints about this nerf & that buff and everyone's pet class, pet skill, pet cheese BUT you are completely missing the deeper message: You are sucking the joy out of ESO with your heavy hand and deaf ear to the underlying chorus the community is screaming at you. If this were a child in your home, you would be calling 911.

I do plan to buy the patch - but on a single account - and give the release ver a fair trial. But I have also already canceled my pre-orders on 5 of the 7 accounts in our household (yes, a family of gamers). Disappointing - really disappointing - just that.

Hatoreehanzo · May 2017

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

DisgracefulMind · May 2017

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

So nerf builds, not a class. This has always been an issue in ESO. Some builds make some classes way too OP. Think about Bloodspawn with a magDK when it first came out: insanity.

Most Templars will tell you that Reacitve/Malubeth and such are entirely too strong and disgusting and irritating. And I think we all agree Heavy Armor has remained OP for way too long.

But none of these are class issues.

utb99 · May 2017

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Any Class can be unkillable. Stam/Mag DKs, Magplars/Stamplars can face tank like no ones business. Mag Sorcs have wards and can exit a fight easily while Stam Sorc is fast af and can tank like a Templar. Mag NB can shade, cloak away and not die and a Stam NB can roll away, sprint and cloak. Warden will be broken in terms of survivability but that's not just because of the class but because of builds, namely Heavy Armor.

The most cancer Blazing Shield Templars use Heavy Armor and Malubeth. Don't gut the class bc of one specific build, adjust the build itself. In your example you used Reactive. I guarentee if you ran a dps light armor set you'd be far less successful at perma tanking zergs.

Joy_Division · May 2017

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Fuxo · May 2017

Exactly this. Why changing core skills when the real problem is in specific builds and specific gear set.

Hatoreehanzo · May 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

technohic · May 2017

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You are missing the entire point. Regardless of what those builds can or can't do; they pretty much nailed everyone that didn't use that.

Pretty much the only really exceptional things about Templar above other classes now is POTL and Extended ritual. Everything else has been nerfed and homogenized while the class still lacks CC and escape/movement.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · May 2017

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You're describing a small group getting zerged down. It sucks. Fighting a larger group with multiple Templars isn't fun. Fight a group full of pet sorcs is even less so. Nerfing Templars won't help your group if you're getting zerged down.

Blazing spear only stunned one enemy per cast. Luminous disorients 1 enemy per cast. Disorients are worthless for Templars.

Hatoreehanzo · May 2017

technohic wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You are missing the entire point. Regardless of what those builds can or can't do; they pretty much nailed everyone that didn't use that.

Pretty much the only really exceptional things about Templar above other classes now is POTL and Extended ritual. Everything else has been nerfed and homogenized while the class still lacks CC and escape/movement.

How is it that we have recently rolled LA Magplars and still play exceptionally well X'ing groups outnumbered with 5L/1H/1M and SnB? What I am addressing is that the nerf to Maj Mend for Templars & DKs, and blocking to everyone, is going to negate a lot of these builds.

As for movement/escape, Templars and DKs do receive the rough end, but there's always elusive for magicka and bow rolling for stamina.

My concern is that Heavy Armor didn't get addressed. Despite having 300/300 speeds I can't weapon swap on console when 30+ people are fighting around me, which affects everyone. I've addressed emote attack glitching for 1.5yrs and it is still going on. Fear is still broken. Etc, etc, etc.

I know a lot of people are afraid of the coming changes, but I honestly welcome them. Just please fix the broken mechanics.

Hatoreehanzo · May 2017

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You're describing a small group getting zerged down. It sucks. Fighting a larger group with multiple Templars isn't fun. Fight a group full of pet sorcs is even less so. Nerfing Templars won't help your group if you're getting zerged down.

Blazing spear only stunned one enemy per cast. Luminous disorients 1 enemy per cast. Disorients are worthless for Templars.

I'm describing all of Cyro/IC. I embrace zergs because I farm them with a handful of people or peel people away slowly while I am by myself. I am used to be chased half way across the map by multiple people attempting to kill one person.

Tanks in Cyro are no problem right? Simply ignore them. But what happens when you have a tank that can heal the entire group without running out of resources?

For anyone that has PvP'd, you'll know fighting veterans 1v1 is a task and 1vX is even harder of course. These are against competent, seasoned players. Now 1v1 someone with far less skill, easy. 1vX, very doable. Now 1vX an incompetent group with 1+ HA Templars. Personally I have to result to catching someone slipping, line of sighting my targets heals away from his group or using cheese combos such as Ballista + Fear + Combos to nix the healer. You can see it's not only Magplars because HA Stamplars are also a pain this patch as well. I think removing Maj Mend is a direction that we need. However, I don't agree with the repentance nerf.

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

DisgracefulMind · May 2017

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You're describing a small group getting zerged down. It sucks. Fighting a larger group with multiple Templars isn't fun. Fight a group full of pet sorcs is even less so. Nerfing Templars won't help your group if you're getting zerged down.

Blazing spear only stunned one enemy per cast. Luminous disorients 1 enemy per cast. Disorients are worthless for Templars.

I'm describing all of Cyro/IC. I embrace zergs because I farm them with a handful of people or peel people away slowly while I am by myself. I am used to be chased half way across the map by multiple people attempting to kill one person.

Tanks in Cyro are no problem right? Simply ignore them. But what happens when you have a tank that can heal the entire group without running out of resources?

For anyone that has PvP'd, you'll know fighting veterans 1v1 is a task and 1vX is even harder of course. These are against competent, seasoned players. Now 1v1 someone with far less skill, easy. 1vX, very doable. Now 1vX an incompetent group with 1+ HA Templars. Personally I have to result to catching someone slipping, line of sighting my targets heals away from his group or using cheese combos such as Ballista + Fear + Combos to nix the healer. You can see it's not only Magplars because HA Stamplars are also a pain this patch as well. I think removing Maj Mend is a direction that we need. However, I don't agree with the repentance nerf.

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Shards only ever stunned one person per cast, same with the disorient on Luminous.

Disorients are pretty useless for Magplars on a skill that procs our burning light passive. Templar 101.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · May 2017

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You're describing a small group getting zerged down. It sucks. Fighting a larger group with multiple Templars isn't fun. Fight a group full of pet sorcs is even less so. Nerfing Templars won't help your group if you're getting zerged down.

Blazing spear only stunned one enemy per cast. Luminous disorients 1 enemy per cast. Disorients are worthless for Templars.

I'm describing all of Cyro/IC. I embrace zergs because I farm them with a handful of people or peel people away slowly while I am by myself. I am used to be chased half way across the map by multiple people attempting to kill one person.

Tanks in Cyro are no problem right? Simply ignore them. But what happens when you have a tank that can heal the entire group without running out of resources?

For anyone that has PvP'd, you'll know fighting veterans 1v1 is a task and 1vX is even harder of course. These are against competent, seasoned players. Now 1v1 someone with far less skill, easy. 1vX, very doable. Now 1vX an incompetent group with 1+ HA Templars. Personally I have to result to catching someone slipping, line of sighting my targets heals away from his group or using cheese combos such as Ballista + Fear + Combos to nix the healer. You can see it's not only Magplars because HA Stamplars are also a pain this patch as well. I think removing Maj Mend is a direction that we need. However, I don't agree with the repentance nerf.

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Blazing spear stunned one person per cast. Luminous shards disoriented one person per cast. Neither morph would cc multiple opponents per cast regardless of how many were in the small AOE. It's a common misperception made by those with less of an understanding of the templar class.

danno8 · May 2017

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Like the other have said, Shards has never, ever, ever stunned (Blazing) or disoriented (Luminous) more than one person in its AoE.

Ever.

GallantGuardian · May 2017

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You're describing a small group getting zerged down. It sucks. Fighting a larger group with multiple Templars isn't fun. Fight a group full of pet sorcs is even less so. Nerfing Templars won't help your group if you're getting zerged down.

Blazing spear only stunned one enemy per cast. Luminous disorients 1 enemy per cast. Disorients are worthless for Templars.

I'm describing all of Cyro/IC. I embrace zergs because I farm them with a handful of people or peel people away slowly while I am by myself. I am used to be chased half way across the map by multiple people attempting to kill one person.

Tanks in Cyro are no problem right? Simply ignore them. But what happens when you have a tank that can heal the entire group without running out of resources?

For anyone that has PvP'd, you'll know fighting veterans 1v1 is a task and 1vX is even harder of course. These are against competent, seasoned players. Now 1v1 someone with far less skill, easy. 1vX, very doable. Now 1vX an incompetent group with 1+ HA Templars. Personally I have to result to catching someone slipping, line of sighting my targets heals away from his group or using cheese combos such as Ballista + Fear + Combos to nix the healer. You can see it's not only Magplars because HA Stamplars are also a pain this patch as well. I think removing Maj Mend is a direction that we need. However, I don't agree with the repentance nerf.

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Shards only ever stunned one person per cast, same with the disorient on Luminous.

Disorients are pretty useless for Magplars on a skill that procs our burning light passive. Templar 101.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You're describing a small group getting zerged down. It sucks. Fighting a larger group with multiple Templars isn't fun. Fight a group full of pet sorcs is even less so. Nerfing Templars won't help your group if you're getting zerged down.

Blazing spear only stunned one enemy per cast. Luminous disorients 1 enemy per cast. Disorients are worthless for Templars.

I'm describing all of Cyro/IC. I embrace zergs because I farm them with a handful of people or peel people away slowly while I am by myself. I am used to be chased half way across the map by multiple people attempting to kill one person.

Tanks in Cyro are no problem right? Simply ignore them. But what happens when you have a tank that can heal the entire group without running out of resources?

For anyone that has PvP'd, you'll know fighting veterans 1v1 is a task and 1vX is even harder of course. These are against competent, seasoned players. Now 1v1 someone with far less skill, easy. 1vX, very doable. Now 1vX an incompetent group with 1+ HA Templars. Personally I have to result to catching someone slipping, line of sighting my targets heals away from his group or using cheese combos such as Ballista + Fear + Combos to nix the healer. You can see it's not only Magplars because HA Stamplars are also a pain this patch as well. I think removing Maj Mend is a direction that we need. However, I don't agree with the repentance nerf.

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Blazing spear stunned one person per cast. Luminous shards disoriented one person per cast. Neither morph would cc multiple opponents per cast regardless of how many were in the small AOE. It's a common misperception made by those with less of an understanding of the templar class.

danno8 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Like the other have said, Shards has never, ever, ever stunned (Blazing) or disoriented (Luminous) more than one person in its AoE.

Ever.

This is not an argument against you guys but my response to it not stunning more adds is

So what if shards did ? What would
It matter ? Talons immobilizes multiple adds and sorcery has an ability withba morph but also when the immobilize breaks it then stuns multiple adds

So what if tempers had one ability that would immobilize multiple adds at once why don't we ? What is the reasoning behind this why would it make the class op it makes no sense

We don't have a reliable resource restore ability or passive we don't have hard stuns and now we are losing major mending we don't have major sorcery we don't have a reliable gap closer or escape a lot of things all these classes have yet they want to say we are op

This is ridiculous to me

I want a hard multi target immobile ability can an undaunted/fighters guild/ or mage skill do this atleast or maybe add some abilities to the sword and board morphs to do Tanky things ?

I want a pull too can silver leash pull ?

The same people arguing that this all would make templars op are the same saying the nerf to the one thing we did right (healing) was well deserved cause other classes should be able to heal ... why can't other classes tank then?

It's good for everyone but templars it seems and I'm sick of it

technohic · May 2017

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You are missing the entire point. Regardless of what those builds can or can't do; they pretty much nailed everyone that didn't use that.

Pretty much the only really exceptional things about Templar above other classes now is POTL and Extended ritual. Everything else has been nerfed and homogenized while the class still lacks CC and escape/movement.

How is it that we have recently rolled LA Magplars and still play exceptionally well X'ing groups outnumbered with 5L/1H/1M and SnB? What I am addressing is that the nerf to Maj Mend for Templars & DKs, and blocking to everyone, is going to negate a lot of these builds.

As for movement/escape, Templars and DKs do receive the rough end, but there's always elusive for magicka and bow rolling for stamina.

My concern is that Heavy Armor didn't get addressed. Despite having 300/300 speeds I can't weapon swap on console when 30+ people are fighting around me, which affects everyone. I've addressed emote attack glitching for 1.5yrs and it is still going on. Fear is still broken. Etc, etc, etc.

I know a lot of people are afraid of the coming changes, but I honestly welcome them. Just please fix the broken mechanics.

I'm not afraid of it. Magplar just has lost most anything that makes it interesting, I'm not sure what light armor has to do with that. I went back stamplar again because at least there, my javelin had a KD that lasts longer than the KB. I still get extended. And I get what I feel is better movement with back bar bow after roll dodge compared to mist. I do have to worry about my repentance possibly not giving me any stam just like it always had the risk, but now; I won't get it from the nearby Templar either. And they nerfed my Vigor. Its pretty much every stam class that has just a little class flavor added to it.

Magplar though? I guess you still heal on sweeps? Halved and halved again?

Ron_Burgundy_79 · May 2017

technohic wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You are missing the entire point. Regardless of what those builds can or can't do; they pretty much nailed everyone that didn't use that.

Pretty much the only really exceptional things about Templar above other classes now is POTL and Extended ritual. Everything else has been nerfed and homogenized while the class still lacks CC and escape/movement.

How is it that we have recently rolled LA Magplars and still play exceptionally well X'ing groups outnumbered with 5L/1H/1M and SnB? What I am addressing is that the nerf to Maj Mend for Templars & DKs, and blocking to everyone, is going to negate a lot of these builds.

As for movement/escape, Templars and DKs do receive the rough end, but there's always elusive for magicka and bow rolling for stamina.

My concern is that Heavy Armor didn't get addressed. Despite having 300/300 speeds I can't weapon swap on console when 30+ people are fighting around me, which affects everyone. I've addressed emote attack glitching for 1.5yrs and it is still going on. Fear is still broken. Etc, etc, etc.

I know a lot of people are afraid of the coming changes, but I honestly welcome them. Just please fix the broken mechanics.

I'm not afraid of it. Magplar just has lost most anything that makes it interesting, I'm not sure what light armor has to do with that. I went back stamplar again because at least there, my javelin had a KD that lasts longer than the KB. I still get extended. And I get what I feel is better movement with back bar bow after roll dodge compared to mist. I do have to worry about my repentance possibly not giving me any stam just like it always had the risk, but now; I won't get it from the nearby Templar either. And they nerfed my Vigor. Its pretty much every stam class that has just a little class flavor added to it.

Magplar though? I guess you still heal on sweeps? Halved and halved again?

Don't forget that they can't double crit anymore either.

Hymzir · May 2017

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Magplar though? I guess you still heal on sweeps? Halved and halved again?

Don't forget that they can't double crit anymore either.

Also don't forget that the heal on sweeps got nerfed since we have such an easy access to Major Mending and can have it up almost all the time... Except, of course, we no longer have that one either, but still get to keep the nerf to sweeps heals.

So yay us, I guess?

CMz · May 2017

I love to see posts like this - and others Joy has contributed on the Morrowind patch changes. It speaks to the broader topic of why we game and why we pick AND stick with our favorite games. Gamers will either adapt or leave when tectonic shifts like those proposed here dramatically alter the landscape of a favored games play. For me it comes down to the enjoyment the game play delivers; and when changes come, to the extent it is a natural evolution of mechanics and does not take that pleasure out of the experience then i simply adapt. In the case of the Morrowind changes, far too much, far too broad, far too fast and - for me - the impact is deeply emotionally draining. The course changes have drained all the early anticipation of seeing my beloved Morrowind come back to life in ESO. Worse, it has drained most all of the daily anticipation of ending a work day or entering a weekend really looking forward to adventuring in Tamriel, battling through Imperial City and throwing new builds and techniques against trials and pledges. These proposals have sucked all the joy out of ESO, all the motivation to get home and log in, and much of the love I have for this game. Now I boot the launcher and just stare at it and all too often, just shut it back down.

As a healer main with 5 magplars; I've just dropped my leveling play for the two newer ones. I've stopped leveling my two new magblades, my baby magsorc, and when i work up marginal enthusiasm to get on at all - it is only to run my hirelings and *** around with leveling skills on two magDK's. The only thing that consistently pulls me back in game are all the friends I've made dating back to beta - and those are rapidly thinning ranks.

ZOS - it's not just about the numbers - it is really about our hearts and the love we have for the Elder Scrolls franchise. You can hear the complaints about this nerf & that buff and everyone's pet class, pet skill, pet cheese BUT you are completely missing the deeper message: You are sucking the joy out of ESO with your heavy hand and deaf ear to the underlying chorus the community is screaming at you. If this were a child in your home, you would be calling 911.

I do plan to buy the patch - but on a single account - and give the release ver a fair trial. But I have also already canceled my pre-orders on 5 of the 7 accounts in our household (yes, a family of gamers). Disappointing - really disappointing

danno8 · May 2017

GallantGuardian wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You're describing a small group getting zerged down. It sucks. Fighting a larger group with multiple Templars isn't fun. Fight a group full of pet sorcs is even less so. Nerfing Templars won't help your group if you're getting zerged down.

Blazing spear only stunned one enemy per cast. Luminous disorients 1 enemy per cast. Disorients are worthless for Templars.

I'm describing all of Cyro/IC. I embrace zergs because I farm them with a handful of people or peel people away slowly while I am by myself. I am used to be chased half way across the map by multiple people attempting to kill one person.

Tanks in Cyro are no problem right? Simply ignore them. But what happens when you have a tank that can heal the entire group without running out of resources?

For anyone that has PvP'd, you'll know fighting veterans 1v1 is a task and 1vX is even harder of course. These are against competent, seasoned players. Now 1v1 someone with far less skill, easy. 1vX, very doable. Now 1vX an incompetent group with 1+ HA Templars. Personally I have to result to catching someone slipping, line of sighting my targets heals away from his group or using cheese combos such as Ballista + Fear + Combos to nix the healer. You can see it's not only Magplars because HA Stamplars are also a pain this patch as well. I think removing Maj Mend is a direction that we need. However, I don't agree with the repentance nerf.

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Shards only ever stunned one person per cast, same with the disorient on Luminous.

Disorients are pretty useless for Magplars on a skill that procs our burning light passive. Templar 101.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You're describing a small group getting zerged down. It sucks. Fighting a larger group with multiple Templars isn't fun. Fight a group full of pet sorcs is even less so. Nerfing Templars won't help your group if you're getting zerged down.

Blazing spear only stunned one enemy per cast. Luminous disorients 1 enemy per cast. Disorients are worthless for Templars.

I'm describing all of Cyro/IC. I embrace zergs because I farm them with a handful of people or peel people away slowly while I am by myself. I am used to be chased half way across the map by multiple people attempting to kill one person.

Tanks in Cyro are no problem right? Simply ignore them. But what happens when you have a tank that can heal the entire group without running out of resources?

For anyone that has PvP'd, you'll know fighting veterans 1v1 is a task and 1vX is even harder of course. These are against competent, seasoned players. Now 1v1 someone with far less skill, easy. 1vX, very doable. Now 1vX an incompetent group with 1+ HA Templars. Personally I have to result to catching someone slipping, line of sighting my targets heals away from his group or using cheese combos such as Ballista + Fear + Combos to nix the healer. You can see it's not only Magplars because HA Stamplars are also a pain this patch as well. I think removing Maj Mend is a direction that we need. However, I don't agree with the repentance nerf.

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Blazing spear stunned one person per cast. Luminous shards disoriented one person per cast. Neither morph would cc multiple opponents per cast regardless of how many were in the small AOE. It's a common misperception made by those with less of an understanding of the templar class.

danno8 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Like the other have said, Shards has never, ever, ever stunned (Blazing) or disoriented (Luminous) more than one person in its AoE.

Ever.

This is not an argument against you guys but my response to it not stunning more adds is

So what if shards did ? What would
It matter ? Talons immobilizes multiple adds and sorcery has an ability withba morph but also when the immobilize breaks it then stuns multiple adds

So what if tempers had one ability that would immobilize multiple adds at once why don't we ? What is the reasoning behind this why would it make the class op it makes no sense

We don't have a reliable resource restore ability or passive we don't have hard stuns and now we are losing major mending we don't have major sorcery we don't have a reliable gap closer or escape a lot of things all these classes have yet they want to say we are op

This is ridiculous to me

I want a hard multi target immobile ability can an undaunted/fighters guild/ or mage skill do this atleast or maybe add some abilities to the sword and board morphs to do Tanky things ?

I want a pull too can silver leash pull ?

The same people arguing that this all would make templars op are the same saying the nerf to the one thing we did right (healing) was well deserved cause other classes should be able to heal ... why can't other classes tank then?

It's good for everyone but templars it seems and I'm sick of it

If they gave Blazing or Luminous an AoE immobilise, I would cry tears of joy. They can remove the snare from Sacred Ground if they wish.

I would still prefer a functional Disorient for blocking opponents, but I would take it.

Soris · May 2017

Need shards stun back

Hatoreehanzo · May 2017

GallantGuardian wrote: »

This is not an argument against you guys but my response to it not stunning more adds is

So what if shards did ? What would
It matter ? Talons immobilizes multiple adds and sorcery has an ability withba morph but also when the immobilize breaks it then stuns multiple adds

So what if tempers had one ability that would immobilize multiple adds at once why don't we ? What is the reasoning behind this why would it make the class op it makes no sense

We don't have a reliable resource restore ability or passive we don't have hard stuns and now we are losing major mending we don't have major sorcery we don't have a reliable gap closer or escape a lot of things all these classes have yet they want to say we are op

This is ridiculous to me

I want a hard multi target immobile ability can an undaunted/fighters guild/ or mage skill do this atleast or maybe add some abilities to the sword and board morphs to do Tanky things ?

I want a pull too can silver leash pull ?

The same people arguing that this all would make templars op are the same saying the nerf to the one thing we did right (healing) was well deserved cause other classes should be able to heal ... why can't other classes tank then?

It's good for everyone but templars it seems and I'm sick of it

You understand ritual snares anyone in it right? It's pretty nasty if used in the right environment. Talons need a revamp. I'll agree with that.

Others are getting hit on resource restore abilities. Look at DKs and NBs.

NBs don't have a major sorcery class skill either. Use entropy like most do, even those with it the class option. Gap closing issues are a mechanic problem. Just like how anyone running a 2H is still feeling it. You're not alone.

It sounds like you should just run a DK if you want an AOE immobilize and pull. That's what makes them unique. In addition, there are plenty of other classes that can tank in their own unique way. I used to tank all vet dungeons in HM as a heal/tank Templar and run with three DPS. Show me a DK that can do that. NB sap tanks are also cool.

Again, I'm excited with this update. I mainly PVP nowadays so I think it will hit that the hardest. PVE has been a mundane joke with the ease you can blast through things and ignore mechanics so maybe it will make it interesting again. In any case there's always post update to adjust. Give them some breathing room and don't fret. Everyone is getting hit with this update. Well... except maybe Sorcs, less the frag decrease.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · May 2017

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

This is not an argument against you guys but my response to it not stunning more adds is

So what if shards did ? What would
It matter ? Talons immobilizes multiple adds and sorcery has an ability withba morph but also when the immobilize breaks it then stuns multiple adds

So what if tempers had one ability that would immobilize multiple adds at once why don't we ? What is the reasoning behind this why would it make the class op it makes no sense

We don't have a reliable resource restore ability or passive we don't have hard stuns and now we are losing major mending we don't have major sorcery we don't have a reliable gap closer or escape a lot of things all these classes have yet they want to say we are op

This is ridiculous to me

I want a hard multi target immobile ability can an undaunted/fighters guild/ or mage skill do this atleast or maybe add some abilities to the sword and board morphs to do Tanky things ?

I want a pull too can silver leash pull ?

The same people arguing that this all would make templars op are the same saying the nerf to the one thing we did right (healing) was well deserved cause other classes should be able to heal ... why can't other classes tank then?

It's good for everyone but templars it seems and I'm sick of it

You understand ritual snares anyone in it right? It's pretty nasty if used in the right environment. Talons need a revamp. I'll agree with that.

Others are getting hit on resource restore abilities. Look at DKs and NBs.

NBs don't have a major sorcery class skill either. Use entropy like most do, even those with it the class option. Gap closing issues are a mechanic problem. Just like how anyone running a 2H is still feeling it. You're not alone.

It sounds like you should just run a DK if you want an AOE immobilize and pull. That's what makes them unique. In addition, there are plenty of other classes that can tank in their own unique way. I used to tank all vet dungeons in HM as a heal/tank Templar and run with three DPS. Show me a DK that can do that. NB sap tanks are also cool.

Again, I'm excited with this update. I mainly PVP nowadays so I think it will hit that the hardest. PVE has been a mundane joke with the ease you can blast through things and ignore mechanics so maybe it will make it interesting again. In any case there's always post update to adjust. Give them some breathing room and don't fret. Everyone is getting hit with this update. Well... except maybe Sorcs, less the frag decrease.

Sap essences provides major sorcery.

Minno · May 2017

ofSunhold wrote: »

Templar crowd control options:

1. Make an opponent jump back if they don't block
2. Mildly inconvenience a caster, but give him a little present after. (One morph is technically a hidden cc "STD". Play safe templars)
3. Slow motion hurdle move with chance to proc loading screen.

What more could you ask for really.

My change to your list (mildly comedic).

danno8 wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You're describing a small group getting zerged down. It sucks. Fighting a larger group with multiple Templars isn't fun. Fight a group full of pet sorcs is even less so. Nerfing Templars won't help your group if you're getting zerged down.

Blazing spear only stunned one enemy per cast. Luminous disorients 1 enemy per cast. Disorients are worthless for Templars.

I'm describing all of Cyro/IC. I embrace zergs because I farm them with a handful of people or peel people away slowly while I am by myself. I am used to be chased half way across the map by multiple people attempting to kill one person.

Tanks in Cyro are no problem right? Simply ignore them. But what happens when you have a tank that can heal the entire group without running out of resources?

For anyone that has PvP'd, you'll know fighting veterans 1v1 is a task and 1vX is even harder of course. These are against competent, seasoned players. Now 1v1 someone with far less skill, easy. 1vX, very doable. Now 1vX an incompetent group with 1+ HA Templars. Personally I have to result to catching someone slipping, line of sighting my targets heals away from his group or using cheese combos such as Ballista + Fear + Combos to nix the healer. You can see it's not only Magplars because HA Stamplars are also a pain this patch as well. I think removing Maj Mend is a direction that we need. However, I don't agree with the repentance nerf.

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Shards only ever stunned one person per cast, same with the disorient on Luminous.

Disorients are pretty useless for Magplars on a skill that procs our burning light passive. Templar 101.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.

Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.

I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.

Yes. All the time. My Templar is AvA rank 40. My sorcerer is AvA rank 42. I don't just play Templars I fight against them all the time.

The sorts of builds you describe do nothing except not die. At least a perma blocking DK can talon, Fossilize and make a nuisance of herself even if they can't kill anything. A high health Blazing Shield Templar is only threatening vs. people who melee them; as opponents they are easily avoided and vulnerable because they have poor resource management. When I see a Reactive-Malubeth combination, I simply ignore it.

I don't need to watch your Twitch because I see this every night I play.

To your point, I do agree having a build that strong defensively does not make for compelling gameplay, but this is not a Templar issue. These builds exist because heavy armor is too strong, light armor is too weak, overall damage in PvP is so high that good protection is almost a prerequisite to compete.

The Templar framework and its class abilities were generally stronger in 1.6 than it is now and that is what you desire to go back to

Put Reactive/Alteration and Malubeth or BP on a Mag Sorc or Mag NB and they will not perform nearly as good. Magplar or DK and they're damn near immortal. Running high defense might not be a threat, but it becomes a threat within these builds when there are 1,2,3+ of them in a group that are complimented by high dps. I either run solo or small 4 man groups in pvp and fighting a group with these setups is daunting. 3 tanky Magplars with unlimited resources all spamming jesus beam in hopes their dps bursts you into execute is the trend. It becomes worse when there are LethArrow spammers sitting back with them. Shards was OP, the one stun is much more level now. I just don't see how these fixes are going to "kill the class" now. I understand each and everyone has their own qualms with their classes, but as it stands right now, people are not punished for running some cookie cutter build and spamming one button. It reduces the skill curve dramatically.

You might be able to ignore a single person, but when they're in groups with people who do damage it makes it a chore to have someone almost killed, healed to full, turn and focus the healer, but they're near unkillable - especially with additional ones.

I don't know about you, but I welcome the update. I think it's going to draw a clear line between skill levels that are currently muddled by this garbage.

You're describing a small group getting zerged down. It sucks. Fighting a larger group with multiple Templars isn't fun. Fight a group full of pet sorcs is even less so. Nerfing Templars won't help your group if you're getting zerged down.

Blazing spear only stunned one enemy per cast. Luminous disorients 1 enemy per cast. Disorients are worthless for Templars.

I'm describing all of Cyro/IC. I embrace zergs because I farm them with a handful of people or peel people away slowly while I am by myself. I am used to be chased half way across the map by multiple people attempting to kill one person.

Tanks in Cyro are no problem right? Simply ignore them. But what happens when you have a tank that can heal the entire group without running out of resources?

For anyone that has PvP'd, you'll know fighting veterans 1v1 is a task and 1vX is even harder of course. These are against competent, seasoned players. Now 1v1 someone with far less skill, easy. 1vX, very doable. Now 1vX an incompetent group with 1+ HA Templars. Personally I have to result to catching someone slipping, line of sighting my targets heals away from his group or using cheese combos such as Ballista + Fear + Combos to nix the healer. You can see it's not only Magplars because HA Stamplars are also a pain this patch as well. I think removing Maj Mend is a direction that we need. However, I don't agree with the repentance nerf.

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Blazing spear stunned one person per cast. Luminous shards disoriented one person per cast. Neither morph would cc multiple opponents per cast regardless of how many were in the small AOE. It's a common misperception made by those with less of an understanding of the templar class.

danno8 wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Shards used to stun anyone (multiple) in its range btw and disorients are useless maybe for Templars, but not for group synergy with other classes.

Like the other have said, Shards has never, ever, ever stunned (Blazing) or disoriented (Luminous) more than one person in its AoE.

Ever.

This is not an argument against you guys but my response to it not stunning more adds is

So what if shards did ? What would
It matter ? Talons immobilizes multiple adds and sorcery has an ability withba morph but also when the immobilize breaks it then stuns multiple adds

So what if tempers had one ability that would immobilize multiple adds at once why don't we ? What is the reasoning behind this why would it make the class op it makes no sense

We don't have a reliable resource restore ability or passive we don't have hard stuns and now we are losing major mending we don't have major sorcery we don't have a reliable gap closer or escape a lot of things all these classes have yet they want to say we are op

This is ridiculous to me

I want a hard multi target immobile ability can an undaunted/fighters guild/ or mage skill do this atleast or maybe add some abilities to the sword and board morphs to do Tanky things ?

I want a pull too can silver leash pull ?

The same people arguing that this all would make templars op are the same saying the nerf to the one thing we did right (healing) was well deserved cause other classes should be able to heal ... why can't other classes tank then?

It's good for everyone but templars it seems and I'm sick of it

If they gave Blazing or Luminous an AoE immobilise, I would cry tears of joy. They can remove the snare from Sacred Ground if they wish.

I would still prefer a functional Disorient for blocking opponents, but I would take it.

They could also make it so that if all enemies hit with the shard, they get a chance to miss their attacks.

This way there's a clear reason you are getting that debuff (a flying bright Sun-Times spear), and a clear way to avoid it (flying time/don't run into red circle).

GallantGuardian · May 2017

So did eso live mention templars ?

ofSunhold · May 2017

@GallantGuardian wrote: »

So did eso live mention templars ?

Nova is going to get a little faster cast time and synergy time.

~ 22 minutes in

booksmcread · May 2017

They think Templars are fine.

GallantGuardian · May 2017

ofSunhold wrote: »

@GallantGuardian wrote: »

So did eso live mention templars ?

Nova is going to get a little faster cast time and synergy time.

~ 22 minutes in

http://www.twitch.tv/videos/142370288

Meh that's not bad but nothing about shards ?

Anyway thank you

ofSunhold · May 2017

GallantGuardian wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

@GallantGuardian wrote: »

So did eso live mention templars ?

Nova is going to get a little faster cast time and synergy time.

~ 22 minutes in

http://www.twitch.tv/videos/142370288

Meh that's not bad but nothing about shards ?

Anyway thank you

Welcome.

Nova is pretty clunky, I'm interested to see if a speed change makes hitting the synergy less fiddly/more possible. It's a nice synergy, but people have trouble getting to it sometimes. That would be a good change.

Nothing else, although they then segued into promises of changes to class skills in the next update. What was interesting was the statement that templar DPS on the PTS is in a good place - and so, templars are fine.

Suggesting they either aren't hearing or don't understand what people are trying to tell them here, which is a great shame.