Joy's thoughts on Templars in Morrowind: they just aren't fun anymore

DHale

Reverb wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Zeuq wrote: »

TL;DR side note who is joy?

Joy is a professional oiler. He has killed me with ground oil (when that was a thing), and postern oil and front door oil and breech oil. Even when I see him in open field I look around to make sure there is no place where he can put down oil. Anytime I die instantly running into a defended keep I says to my guildies in TS Joy is on oil before I even look at my death recap. I am pretty sure he works for Exxon IRL. Oh I forgot tower oil too cannot forget that.

Perfect, this will be the new profession for my Templar when the patch hits: siege monkey. I'll become one of those people who never comes down off the wall. I wouldn't be able to survive down there anymore, and I no longer provide decent heals or buffs, so siege it is.

Wear vicious death it's what the cool siegers wear.

DisgracefulMind

ZoS, yet again, has ignored what Templar mains (specifically Magicka Templars) have been telling them this whole time. We want a CC on shards, not javelin. Javelin, as previously mentioned, ruins the entire Magplar playstyle. It will now push people further out of our range, and that is something that, for a clunky class, is even more hindering. So, what, now we have an even worse CC than Toppling (WHICH BARELY CAUSES CC AS IS BECAUSE IT'S SO SLOW AND CLUNKY), our shards got a "buff", but they don't help much for small-scale PvP. I'm just appalled at this point at how ZoS continues to ignore actual Templar players.

You stole our repent, you removed blinding flashes, took away shard CC, then you put shards on the same cooldown as orbs, stealth removed the new resource restore to the caster from shards, you took away major mending, you continue to ruin toppling charge, you will probably take away purifying light soon, you've nerfed RD and not even in the correct way it should have been done, you've nerfed BoL several times, so what is next? We are a class and spec trapped by channels and the idea that we should be stationary, yet being stationary and channeling are two things that are not always or often possible in PvP. You wonder why Magplar sustain goes down the gutter so quickly if you don't manage it correctly? It's because we are constantly rebuilding our "house" only to have to move out of it almost immediately after. Because ZoS doesn't understand the need to have tools to "stand our ground", like shard CC. If you want Magicka Templars to "build a house" then you have to stop taking away our tools to defend it. What in the actual [insert bad word here] do you see being useful with the Javelin "buff"??? We're supposed to lay out our defense mechanics, only to push someone out of it? So that means you want us to leave our defense, and then spend resources to lay our defense back down, only for the enemy to get out of it again anyways. It's just hilarious that anyone would even think this is a good thing.

I don't get it anymore. I'm tired of trying to. AR50 is soon, and I will probably be shelving my Magplar because, at this point, the class is a mess and ZoS doesn't show any initiative to fix it. Instead they nerf it based off of broken builds like Reactive/Malubeth and refuse to see the real problems. I'm not saying the class can't be strong anymore in the right hands, it will always be played well by players who actually know how to play it, but it's just such a disaster at this point that it just makes me sad.

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Minno

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ZoS, yet again, has ignored what Templar mains (specifically Magicka Templars) have been telling them this whole time. We want a CC on shards, not javelin. Javelin, as previously mentioned, ruins the entire Magplar playstyle. It will now push people further out of our range, and that is something that, for a clunky class, is even more hindering. So, what, now we have an even worse CC than Toppling (WHICH BARELY CAUSES CC AS IS BECAUSE IT'S SO SLOW AND CLUNKY), our shards got a "buff", but they don't help much for small-scale PvP. I'm just appalled at this point at how ZoS continues to ignore actual Templar players.

You stole our repent, you removed blinding flashes, took away shard CC, then you put shards on the same cooldown as orbs, stealth removed the new resource restore to the caster from shards, you took away major mending, you continue to ruin toppling charge, you will probably take away purifying light soon, you've nerfed RD and not even in the correct way it should have been done, you've nerfed BoL several times, so what is next? We are a class and spec trapped by channels and the idea that we should be stationary, yet being stationary and channeling are two things that are not always or often possible in PvP. You wonder why Magplar sustain goes down the gutter so quickly if you don't manage it correctly? It's because we are constantly rebuilding our "house" only to have to move out of it almost immediately after. Because ZoS doesn't understand the need to have tools to "stand our ground", like shard CC. If you want Magicka Templars to "build a house" then you have to stop taking away our tools to defend it. What in the actual [insert bad word here] do you see being useful with the Javelin "buff"??? We're supposed to lay out our defense mechanics, only to push someone out of it? So that means you want us to leave our defense, and then spend resources to lay our defense back down, only for the enemy to get out of it again anyways. It's just hilarious that anyone would even think this is a good thing.

I don't get it anymore. I'm tired of trying to. AR50 is soon, and I will probably be shelving my Magplar because, at this point, the class is a mess and ZoS doesn't show any initiative to fix it. Instead they nerf it based off of broken builds like Reactive/Malubeth and refuse to see the real problems. I'm not saying the class can't be strong anymore in the right hands, it will always be played well by players who actually know how to play it, but it's just such a disaster at this point that it just makes me sad.

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Instead of shelving your main, let's find unique ways to play them . Don't even worry about gold stats, just craft purple gear because our toolkit is messy anyway lol. I made a speedy-dodgy magplar and have been having more fun with that than any of the meta builds.

Also I'm willing to bet the sweeps change was more to convince us not to riot over a nerf. They did it because players couldn't move out of the snare/dmg (like they can't do with wrecking blow) and they dressed up the intent like a hand-me-down ragdoll on Xmas.

DisgracefulMind

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ZoS, yet again, has ignored what Templar mains (specifically Magicka Templars) have been telling them this whole time. We want a CC on shards, not javelin. Javelin, as previously mentioned, ruins the entire Magplar playstyle. It will now push people further out of our range, and that is something that, for a clunky class, is even more hindering. So, what, now we have an even worse CC than Toppling (WHICH BARELY CAUSES CC AS IS BECAUSE IT'S SO SLOW AND CLUNKY), our shards got a "buff", but they don't help much for small-scale PvP. I'm just appalled at this point at how ZoS continues to ignore actual Templar players.

You stole our repent, you removed blinding flashes, took away shard CC, then you put shards on the same cooldown as orbs, stealth removed the new resource restore to the caster from shards, you took away major mending, you continue to ruin toppling charge, you will probably take away purifying light soon, you've nerfed RD and not even in the correct way it should have been done, you've nerfed BoL several times, so what is next? We are a class and spec trapped by channels and the idea that we should be stationary, yet being stationary and channeling are two things that are not always or often possible in PvP. You wonder why Magplar sustain goes down the gutter so quickly if you don't manage it correctly? It's because we are constantly rebuilding our "house" only to have to move out of it almost immediately after. Because ZoS doesn't understand the need to have tools to "stand our ground", like shard CC. If you want Magicka Templars to "build a house" then you have to stop taking away our tools to defend it. What in the actual [insert bad word here] do you see being useful with the Javelin "buff"??? We're supposed to lay out our defense mechanics, only to push someone out of it? So that means you want us to leave our defense, and then spend resources to lay our defense back down, only for the enemy to get out of it again anyways. It's just hilarious that anyone would even think this is a good thing.

I don't get it anymore. I'm tired of trying to. AR50 is soon, and I will probably be shelving my Magplar because, at this point, the class is a mess and ZoS doesn't show any initiative to fix it. Instead they nerf it based off of broken builds like Reactive/Malubeth and refuse to see the real problems. I'm not saying the class can't be strong anymore in the right hands, it will always be played well by players who actually know how to play it, but it's just such a disaster at this point that it just makes me sad.

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Instead of shelving your main, let's find unique ways to play them . Don't even worry about gold stats, just craft purple gear because our toolkit is messy anyway lol. I made a speedy-dodgy magplar and have been having more fun with that than any of the meta builds.

Also I'm willing to bet the sweeps change was more to convince us not to riot over a nerf. They did it because players couldn't move out of the snare/dmg (like they can't do with wrecking blow) and they dressed up the intent like a hand-me-down ragdoll on Xmas.

I'm always interesting in theory crafting new builds, and I run a lot of different and weird stuff on my Magplar, but my desire to do so is really drained for this patch /: We'll see with the patch.

It was definitely due to a mix of all those reasons, but mostly being given major mending. With that out of the window, they should buff our sweep heal. Would allow us to be more offensive and less defensive, anyways.

Minno

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ZoS, yet again, has ignored what Templar mains (specifically Magicka Templars) have been telling them this whole time. We want a CC on shards, not javelin. Javelin, as previously mentioned, ruins the entire Magplar playstyle. It will now push people further out of our range, and that is something that, for a clunky class, is even more hindering. So, what, now we have an even worse CC than Toppling (WHICH BARELY CAUSES CC AS IS BECAUSE IT'S SO SLOW AND CLUNKY), our shards got a "buff", but they don't help much for small-scale PvP. I'm just appalled at this point at how ZoS continues to ignore actual Templar players.

You stole our repent, you removed blinding flashes, took away shard CC, then you put shards on the same cooldown as orbs, stealth removed the new resource restore to the caster from shards, you took away major mending, you continue to ruin toppling charge, you will probably take away purifying light soon, you've nerfed RD and not even in the correct way it should have been done, you've nerfed BoL several times, so what is next? We are a class and spec trapped by channels and the idea that we should be stationary, yet being stationary and channeling are two things that are not always or often possible in PvP. You wonder why Magplar sustain goes down the gutter so quickly if you don't manage it correctly? It's because we are constantly rebuilding our "house" only to have to move out of it almost immediately after. Because ZoS doesn't understand the need to have tools to "stand our ground", like shard CC. If you want Magicka Templars to "build a house" then you have to stop taking away our tools to defend it. What in the actual [insert bad word here] do you see being useful with the Javelin "buff"??? We're supposed to lay out our defense mechanics, only to push someone out of it? So that means you want us to leave our defense, and then spend resources to lay our defense back down, only for the enemy to get out of it again anyways. It's just hilarious that anyone would even think this is a good thing.

I don't get it anymore. I'm tired of trying to. AR50 is soon, and I will probably be shelving my Magplar because, at this point, the class is a mess and ZoS doesn't show any initiative to fix it. Instead they nerf it based off of broken builds like Reactive/Malubeth and refuse to see the real problems. I'm not saying the class can't be strong anymore in the right hands, it will always be played well by players who actually know how to play it, but it's just such a disaster at this point that it just makes me sad.

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Instead of shelving your main, let's find unique ways to play them . Don't even worry about gold stats, just craft purple gear because our toolkit is messy anyway lol. I made a speedy-dodgy magplar and have been having more fun with that than any of the meta builds.

Also I'm willing to bet the sweeps change was more to convince us not to riot over a nerf. They did it because players couldn't move out of the snare/dmg (like they can't do with wrecking blow) and they dressed up the intent like a hand-me-down ragdoll on Xmas.

I'm always interesting in theory crafting new builds, and I run a lot of different and weird stuff on my Magplar, but my desire to do so is really drained for this patch /: We'll see with the patch.

It was definitely due to a mix of all those reasons, but mostly being given major mending. With that out of the window, they should buff our sweep heal. Would allow us to be more offensive and less defensive, anyways.

I would take a break from ESO till the NDA is lifted and everyone else gets to test Morrowind. Afterall it's a game and you should be having fun . Catch up on new games, grab a beer, and enjoy the free time you have!

Then come back, and give it another shot. There's plenty of builds to make that the playerbase keeps shooting down based on a lack of incentive to explore the sets given.

Joy_Division

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ZoS, yet again, has ignored what Templar mains (specifically Magicka Templars) have been telling them this whole time. We want a CC on shards, not javelin. Javelin, as previously mentioned, ruins the entire Magplar playstyle. It will now push people further out of our range, and that is something that, for a clunky class, is even more hindering. So, what, now we have an even worse CC than Toppling (WHICH BARELY CAUSES CC AS IS BECAUSE IT'S SO SLOW AND CLUNKY), our shards got a "buff", but they don't help much for small-scale PvP. I'm just appalled at this point at how ZoS continues to ignore actual Templar players.

You stole our repent, you removed blinding flashes, took away shard CC, then you put shards on the same cooldown as orbs, stealth removed the new resource restore to the caster from shards, you took away major mending, you continue to ruin toppling charge, you will probably take away purifying light soon, you've nerfed RD and not even in the correct way it should have been done, you've nerfed BoL several times, so what is next? We are a class and spec trapped by channels and the idea that we should be stationary, yet being stationary and channeling are two things that are not always or often possible in PvP. You wonder why Magplar sustain goes down the gutter so quickly if you don't manage it correctly? It's because we are constantly rebuilding our "house" only to have to move out of it almost immediately after. Because ZoS doesn't understand the need to have tools to "stand our ground", like shard CC. If you want Magicka Templars to "build a house" then you have to stop taking away our tools to defend it. What in the actual [insert bad word here] do you see being useful with the Javelin "buff"??? We're supposed to lay out our defense mechanics, only to push someone out of it? So that means you want us to leave our defense, and then spend resources to lay our defense back down, only for the enemy to get out of it again anyways. It's just hilarious that anyone would even think this is a good thing.

I don't get it anymore. I'm tired of trying to. AR50 is soon, and I will probably be shelving my Magplar because, at this point, the class is a mess and ZoS doesn't show any initiative to fix it. Instead they nerf it based off of broken builds like Reactive/Malubeth and refuse to see the real problems. I'm not saying the class can't be strong anymore in the right hands, it will always be played well by players who actually know how to play it, but it's just such a disaster at this point that it just makes me sad.

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Instead of shelving your main, let's find unique ways to play them . Don't even worry about gold stats, just craft purple gear because our toolkit is messy anyway lol. I made a speedy-dodgy magplar and have been having more fun with that than any of the meta builds.

Also I'm willing to bet the sweeps change was more to convince us not to riot over a nerf. They did it because players couldn't move out of the snare/dmg (like they can't do with wrecking blow) and they dressed up the intent like a hand-me-down ragdoll on Xmas.

I'm always interesting in theory crafting new builds, and I run a lot of different and weird stuff on my Magplar, but my desire to do so is really drained for this patch /: We'll see with the patch.

It was definitely due to a mix of all those reasons, but mostly being given major mending. With that out of the window, they should buff our sweep heal. Would allow us to be more offensive and less defensive, anyways.

I would take a break from ESO till the NDA is lifted and everyone else gets to test Morrowind. Afterall it's a game and you should be having fun . Catch up on new games, grab a beer, and enjoy the free time you have!

Then come back, and give it another shot. There's plenty of builds to make that the playerbase keeps shooting down based on a lack of incentive to explore the sets given.

I think this issue is not that we can't make a functional build that will work and "adapt" to the next patch, it's that they are becoming less distinctive with every patch.

• i can Jesus Beam, but undodgeable channels are a dime a dozen now (crushing shock, prevalence of lightning heavy attack, cliff racer).
• They improved Backlash, but is it really all the much different than Curse?
• the bug buff we got was adding three meters to the knock back of Javelin. Exactly what does Javelin do aside from stun? Nothing
• This all aside from the loss of repenting stam for allies, damage reduction nerf for Remembrance, shared cooldown with synergy/orbs.

I didn't make this post theoretically. I've been on the PTS and I've did some BGs and have done vMA thrice (with different builds). I know a templar can be effective next patch. Its that their toolkit is less distinctive and that effectiveness is less and less coming from being a Templar than it is just by wearing gear, and getting flat percent power boosts from the CP system and other generic buffs available to all the other classes.

TazESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

While I can empathize with the frustrations many Templars have articulated on these forums, I'm not sure I agree with the more passion-driven conclusions. Looking at things objectively, do we really want to argue there isn't a point in running templar healers? Or that we somehow have a better grasp of the issue than ZoS did after months and months of internal testing?

I hate to say this, but there is a point in bringing a templar healer: they heal and will be able to do the job effectively once Morrowind drops.

It's obvious ZoS wants to limit resource sustain to a degree that prompts us to reevaluate our (perceived) lazy habits of just building for max damage. If Templars kept their exclusive hold on group resource generation, they would circumvent the entire basis of this goal that ZoS deems important. I don;t mean to be the bearer of bad news, but I highly doubt we are getting Repentance back and Shards on a separate cooldown would make Templars double the group sustainers as those classes that relied on Orbs.

ZoS will never admit this, but I'll tell you straight up: major mending is gone because of CP PvP. I play it every night and I heard Rich Lambert on ESO Live. This was as predictable to me as the sun rising in the East. I do think Wardens will have a very high up-time on Major Mending, but I suspect ZoS's adjustment will be more about scaling that back than restoring it for Templars.

Now reading this, you might think I agree with ZoS's direction. I don't. I hate it. But it is what it is. They are convinced that resource management in the game is trivial and that has damaged the integrity of the combat system. The changes they made in the patch notes are consistent with this goal and ZoS can't just revert it because we Templars are worried about becoming obsolete when nobody has played a Warden on the Live server yet.

If you really want Zos to reevaluate the changes they have made, you are going to have to convince them that ramifications of this patch are going to be detrimental to gameplay or the overall health of the franchise. This is going to be a tough sell. Because as much as people have voiced their displeasure over the patch notes, most of those very same people sympathize with Zos's overall goals. I've been on the PTS. Zos can compare my vMA score on Live (490,000) and my vMA score on PTS (420,000) and that would suggest that their goals are indeed being met since I can still complete the content and still get a decent score. I've have been in the new Trial and in just a few days, the bosses are getting killed with Templars healing. This is going to be a *really* tough sell.

All that being said, I do have a concern that I very much would like to hear ZoS's answer. Because I have seen nothing in the Patch Notes, any developer comment, or anywhere that allays my concerns:

It is clear as day to me and everyone else whose main was a Templar from Launch that what made the class distinctive from the others is gone.

• Puncturing Strikes stunned targets and healed for more. Now no more stun (instead just a snare) and it heals for much less.
• Biting Jabs stunned targets and acted as quasi execute. Now it just snares and gives a generic buff available elsewhere.
• Focused Charge was fast, responsive, and managed to hit opponents without the need for unpurgable auto-snare. Now it’s slow, bugs out, and places a snare on my opponents even if they are using a specific ability that makes them immune.
• Spear Shards stunned an opponent, had a longer relative range to other skills before Battle Spirit, and gave me the conscious ability to provide stamina to my allies. Now it doesn’t stun, I do not have a choice what resource it restores, and every other class can replicate this once unique ability via the Undaunted Skill line. Also, this used to tick twice as fast and thus twice as many Burning Light procs
• Blazing Shield was once a functional defense shield for all templars as it was based off health, an attribute the game’s mechanics used to encourage us to invest in. Now it’s a suboptimal choice for all templars excepting niche builds that stack max health.
• The Balanced Warrior passive used to benefit all templar’s damage. Now it only does so for “stamplars”
• Eclipse use to always reflect just about everything in the game for 7.2 seconds and had no targeting restrictions. Now only one morph only reflects projectiles and it only lasts for 3.5 seconds.
• I use to have a skill called Blinding Flashes that gave melee opponents a unique miss chance debuff. It’s now gone.
• The Restoring Spirit passive used to restore magicka when casting a Dawn’s Wrath ability. Now it’s just a generic small cost reduction (that is subject to diminishing returns).
• The Remembrance ultimate morph used to provide my allies with damage reduction. Now it doesn’t.
• Breath of Life once had an additional heal and no targeting restrictions.
• Restoring Aura once provided allies (and the templar) a bonus to their stam recovery not available anywhere else in the game. Now it debuffs six enemies with a generic debuff that restores magicka to my allies if they attack specific target.
• Repentance once restored health and stamina to the templar and her allies from corpses. Right now it is the last of the mechanics in ESO that once reward successful smaller sized groups overcome disorganized masses. On the PTS, this is gone as it’s just a situational AoE heal and only the templar gains stamina.
• Cleansing ritual used to cleanse debuffs and incoming projectiles. Now, no more projectiles and it’s more expensive.
• Focused Healing passive once gave me a unique 30% healing buff to allies standing in my protective circles. Now this is called Mending and gives a 12% buff if I am standing in my protective circles. If I combine it with the new Sacred Ground Passive, I can get an additional 8%. So in total 10% less.
• Mending once passive gave me a higher chance to critically heal a low health target. This is now gone completely.

It's enough to make a Templar cry.

Now, I'm not claiming the class is nerfed because it's not. It's not so much the power that has been sucked from my class but its soul. Each and every one of those once unique powers that differentiated my class from the others has been taken away because generic, bland, and flat power has been acquired elsewhere in the form of gear, the natural "Power Creep" that accompanies progression games, and especially the Champion System. In effect ZoS has been robbing Peter to pay Paul.

All classes have had to contend with this. Dragonknights more so than us. Sorcerers to a lesser degree. Nightblades I cannot say because I did not play one at launch.

Zos can quantify power so it thinks as long as the classes are roughly equivalent that all is OK. Well ZoS, you can't quantify fun. I'm telling you right now that I do not enjoy that the uniqueness of my class has been torn asunder just to be replaced by the homogenized generic +X% boosts in its stead. What had once made it fun to play a Templar no longer exists.

Here's the thing. I know I have the Healing Ritual spell. I didn’t need to be reminded about it and I most certainly could have done without ZoS dubbing it a “faster healing spammable ability.” It is a terrible spell that is in every way inferior to Healing Springs and in no way fast. What we are going to do is spam Healing Springs just like every other class. We will still use Shards, but it now supports the group just like every other class. I suppose we could use Restoring Aura, but why bother since it provides the same debuff as Elemental Drain and thus its effect is just like every other class. We no longer can reward the success our group with a Repentance stamina refill just like every other class. And please don't tell me it's free; my group has to kill enemies and I actually have to activate the skill with a global cooldown. It is the very last game mechanic in ESO that legitimately rewards one group of players for defeating another. Yes I have Purifying Ritual but everyone has access Purge. Yes I have Breath of Life, but you don’t even need to look to the Warden for other burst heals because there is multi-directional Twilight Matriarch and Steadfast Ward. You can argue that BoL is better, and maybe it is. Who cares? The point here is not that Templars healer can’t do the job or that they are gimped or weaker than other healers. Rather what interesting, compelling, and distinctive function doesa Templar provide a group? That’s gone. Gone the way of the stun from Blazing Spear, the unique CC from Blinding Flashes, the counter-play potential of Eclipse, the viability of Sun Shield, the resource return mechanic of Restoring Spirit, the zerg-fighting potential of Repentance. The Templar body functions, but its soul is no longer there.

And for what? All to reign in that bland generic power that comes from ZoS’s buff system and especially the flat percentage boosts everyone gets from the Champion System. There is so much power beyond our class skill-lines and passives such that ZoS has been forced to strip away our classes in order to maintain some semblance of control. Why do you think every patch update since the Imperial City has been page after page of nerfs? Why do you think ZoS has gone away from its “100% commitment” that PvP and PvE would governed by the same rules? Ask anyone who plays on Azura's Star who has been hit with a siege weapon, inflicted with a resource draining poison, or fought someone with the TrollKing monster set if ESO is "a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently." Remember when we wrote over 80 pages of Templar feedback on the PTS made fun of Eric Wrobel and his Templar "house"? Well, as it turns out Templar Houses were indeed mighty in spite of the nerfs. This is the conundrum the developers must strain their brain on every patch: even when they nerf us, we become relatively stronger.

That’s the problem ZoS. It’s not that Templars are weak, or useless, or over-nerfed, or can’t compete with Wardens. Rather it is clear as day to anyone who has played and cared about a Templar since launch that the essence of what once made the class distinctive and fun is dead. The soulless husks we play now still have more than adequate power to fulfill whatever role is called on them, but there is no compelling game-play reason to use them as the direction you have taken the game has eliminated unique class functions in favor of generic power boosts available to everyone. That’s a terrible change. We are all pretty much the same. It’s boring. I don’t think you ever should have allowed the Champion System to steal the power inherent in our classes. Because you will never ever convince me that some +X major bonus to stamina available to everyone is as awesome, rewarding, stimulating, or fun as the Repentance skill.

I want the soul back on my templar. And it pains me you cannot grant that because of the direction you took ESO.

This. Shout from the rooftops THIS. You have captured my feelings (I have mained a Breton Templar healer since 2014, and also a Dunmer Templar DPS for the last few months) perfectly, with the experience and thoughtfullness to back it up.

Thanks for the great post OP.

DisgracefulMind

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ZoS, yet again, has ignored what Templar mains (specifically Magicka Templars) have been telling them this whole time. We want a CC on shards, not javelin. Javelin, as previously mentioned, ruins the entire Magplar playstyle. It will now push people further out of our range, and that is something that, for a clunky class, is even more hindering. So, what, now we have an even worse CC than Toppling (WHICH BARELY CAUSES CC AS IS BECAUSE IT'S SO SLOW AND CLUNKY), our shards got a "buff", but they don't help much for small-scale PvP. I'm just appalled at this point at how ZoS continues to ignore actual Templar players.

You stole our repent, you removed blinding flashes, took away shard CC, then you put shards on the same cooldown as orbs, stealth removed the new resource restore to the caster from shards, you took away major mending, you continue to ruin toppling charge, you will probably take away purifying light soon, you've nerfed RD and not even in the correct way it should have been done, you've nerfed BoL several times, so what is next? We are a class and spec trapped by channels and the idea that we should be stationary, yet being stationary and channeling are two things that are not always or often possible in PvP. You wonder why Magplar sustain goes down the gutter so quickly if you don't manage it correctly? It's because we are constantly rebuilding our "house" only to have to move out of it almost immediately after. Because ZoS doesn't understand the need to have tools to "stand our ground", like shard CC. If you want Magicka Templars to "build a house" then you have to stop taking away our tools to defend it. What in the actual [insert bad word here] do you see being useful with the Javelin "buff"??? We're supposed to lay out our defense mechanics, only to push someone out of it? So that means you want us to leave our defense, and then spend resources to lay our defense back down, only for the enemy to get out of it again anyways. It's just hilarious that anyone would even think this is a good thing.

I don't get it anymore. I'm tired of trying to. AR50 is soon, and I will probably be shelving my Magplar because, at this point, the class is a mess and ZoS doesn't show any initiative to fix it. Instead they nerf it based off of broken builds like Reactive/Malubeth and refuse to see the real problems. I'm not saying the class can't be strong anymore in the right hands, it will always be played well by players who actually know how to play it, but it's just such a disaster at this point that it just makes me sad.

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Instead of shelving your main, let's find unique ways to play them . Don't even worry about gold stats, just craft purple gear because our toolkit is messy anyway lol. I made a speedy-dodgy magplar and have been having more fun with that than any of the meta builds.

Also I'm willing to bet the sweeps change was more to convince us not to riot over a nerf. They did it because players couldn't move out of the snare/dmg (like they can't do with wrecking blow) and they dressed up the intent like a hand-me-down ragdoll on Xmas.

I'm always interesting in theory crafting new builds, and I run a lot of different and weird stuff on my Magplar, but my desire to do so is really drained for this patch /: We'll see with the patch.

It was definitely due to a mix of all those reasons, but mostly being given major mending. With that out of the window, they should buff our sweep heal. Would allow us to be more offensive and less defensive, anyways.

I would take a break from ESO till the NDA is lifted and everyone else gets to test Morrowind. Afterall it's a game and you should be having fun . Catch up on new games, grab a beer, and enjoy the free time you have!

Then come back, and give it another shot. There's plenty of builds to make that the playerbase keeps shooting down based on a lack of incentive to explore the sets given.

It's not that I don't have fun in ESO. I obviously do if I still play it. I love my friends and community here, and I'm very guild driven. I'm just disappointed in ZoS.

Also, I do play with a lot of different sets. I waste 90% of my gold playing with builds. And I'm cool with that, I enjoy it. I just don't enjoy my group utility being destroyed. I play ESO to be a support player. So having things like repent taken away really are just so disappointing. We'll all recover with the patch, I don't deny it at all. I know I'll adapt, and I know everyone else will. But it's just ZoS not letting wounds close x:

Anyways, we'll all be fine. But it doesn't excuse ZoS from not listening to Templar player feedback.

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ZoS, yet again, has ignored what Templar mains (specifically Magicka Templars) have been telling them this whole time. We want a CC on shards, not javelin. Javelin, as previously mentioned, ruins the entire Magplar playstyle. It will now push people further out of our range, and that is something that, for a clunky class, is even more hindering. So, what, now we have an even worse CC than Toppling (WHICH BARELY CAUSES CC AS IS BECAUSE IT'S SO SLOW AND CLUNKY), our shards got a "buff", but they don't help much for small-scale PvP. I'm just appalled at this point at how ZoS continues to ignore actual Templar players.

You stole our repent, you removed blinding flashes, took away shard CC, then you put shards on the same cooldown as orbs, stealth removed the new resource restore to the caster from shards, you took away major mending, you continue to ruin toppling charge, you will probably take away purifying light soon, you've nerfed RD and not even in the correct way it should have been done, you've nerfed BoL several times, so what is next? We are a class and spec trapped by channels and the idea that we should be stationary, yet being stationary and channeling are two things that are not always or often possible in PvP. You wonder why Magplar sustain goes down the gutter so quickly if you don't manage it correctly? It's because we are constantly rebuilding our "house" only to have to move out of it almost immediately after. Because ZoS doesn't understand the need to have tools to "stand our ground", like shard CC. If you want Magicka Templars to "build a house" then you have to stop taking away our tools to defend it. What in the actual [insert bad word here] do you see being useful with the Javelin "buff"??? We're supposed to lay out our defense mechanics, only to push someone out of it? So that means you want us to leave our defense, and then spend resources to lay our defense back down, only for the enemy to get out of it again anyways. It's just hilarious that anyone would even think this is a good thing.

I don't get it anymore. I'm tired of trying to. AR50 is soon, and I will probably be shelving my Magplar because, at this point, the class is a mess and ZoS doesn't show any initiative to fix it. Instead they nerf it based off of broken builds like Reactive/Malubeth and refuse to see the real problems. I'm not saying the class can't be strong anymore in the right hands, it will always be played well by players who actually know how to play it, but it's just such a disaster at this point that it just makes me sad.

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Instead of shelving your main, let's find unique ways to play them . Don't even worry about gold stats, just craft purple gear because our toolkit is messy anyway lol. I made a speedy-dodgy magplar and have been having more fun with that than any of the meta builds.

Also I'm willing to bet the sweeps change was more to convince us not to riot over a nerf. They did it because players couldn't move out of the snare/dmg (like they can't do with wrecking blow) and they dressed up the intent like a hand-me-down ragdoll on Xmas.

I'm always interesting in theory crafting new builds, and I run a lot of different and weird stuff on my Magplar, but my desire to do so is really drained for this patch /: We'll see with the patch.

It was definitely due to a mix of all those reasons, but mostly being given major mending. With that out of the window, they should buff our sweep heal. Would allow us to be more offensive and less defensive, anyways.

I would take a break from ESO till the NDA is lifted and everyone else gets to test Morrowind. Afterall it's a game and you should be having fun . Catch up on new games, grab a beer, and enjoy the free time you have!

Then come back, and give it another shot. There's plenty of builds to make that the playerbase keeps shooting down based on a lack of incentive to explore the sets given.

I think this issue is not that we can't make a functional build that will work and "adapt" to the next patch, it's that they are becoming less distinctive with every patch.

• i can Jesus Beam, but undodgeable channels are a dime a dozen now (crushing shock, prevalence of lightning heavy attack, cliff racer).
• They improved Backlash, but is it really all the much different than Curse?
• the bug buff we got was adding three meters to the knock back of Javelin. Exactly what does Javelin do aside from stun? Nothing
• This all aside from the loss of repenting stam for allies, damage reduction nerf for Remembrance, shared cooldown with synergy/orbs.

I didn't make this post theoretically. I've been on the PTS and I've did some BGs and have done vMA thrice (with different builds). I know a templar can be effective next patch. Its that their toolkit is less distinctive and that effectiveness is less and less coming from being a Templar than it is just by wearing gear, and getting flat percent power boosts from the CP system and other generic buffs available to all the other classes.

Not disputing you or other posters here, Joy. There is a reason I ignore most of the Templar/staff toolkit in PvP. In fact if it doesn't have an undodgable effect, I pretty much ignore it. I'd rather know my dmg will be hitting my target and trying to add those sources together.

I do have high hopes that Jack Daniel releases his thoughts on Templar hybrids while streaming in the pts. The hybrid Templar has always been the most fun since the class was designed to pull is dps from other sources (which under the current live is said since they scale off the stars instead of a front loaded system).

That's why I made my comment.

Minno

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ZoS, yet again, has ignored what Templar mains (specifically Magicka Templars) have been telling them this whole time. We want a CC on shards, not javelin. Javelin, as previously mentioned, ruins the entire Magplar playstyle. It will now push people further out of our range, and that is something that, for a clunky class, is even more hindering. So, what, now we have an even worse CC than Toppling (WHICH BARELY CAUSES CC AS IS BECAUSE IT'S SO SLOW AND CLUNKY), our shards got a "buff", but they don't help much for small-scale PvP. I'm just appalled at this point at how ZoS continues to ignore actual Templar players.

You stole our repent, you removed blinding flashes, took away shard CC, then you put shards on the same cooldown as orbs, stealth removed the new resource restore to the caster from shards, you took away major mending, you continue to ruin toppling charge, you will probably take away purifying light soon, you've nerfed RD and not even in the correct way it should have been done, you've nerfed BoL several times, so what is next? We are a class and spec trapped by channels and the idea that we should be stationary, yet being stationary and channeling are two things that are not always or often possible in PvP. You wonder why Magplar sustain goes down the gutter so quickly if you don't manage it correctly? It's because we are constantly rebuilding our "house" only to have to move out of it almost immediately after. Because ZoS doesn't understand the need to have tools to "stand our ground", like shard CC. If you want Magicka Templars to "build a house" then you have to stop taking away our tools to defend it. What in the actual [insert bad word here] do you see being useful with the Javelin "buff"??? We're supposed to lay out our defense mechanics, only to push someone out of it? So that means you want us to leave our defense, and then spend resources to lay our defense back down, only for the enemy to get out of it again anyways. It's just hilarious that anyone would even think this is a good thing.

I don't get it anymore. I'm tired of trying to. AR50 is soon, and I will probably be shelving my Magplar because, at this point, the class is a mess and ZoS doesn't show any initiative to fix it. Instead they nerf it based off of broken builds like Reactive/Malubeth and refuse to see the real problems. I'm not saying the class can't be strong anymore in the right hands, it will always be played well by players who actually know how to play it, but it's just such a disaster at this point that it just makes me sad.

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Instead of shelving your main, let's find unique ways to play them . Don't even worry about gold stats, just craft purple gear because our toolkit is messy anyway lol. I made a speedy-dodgy magplar and have been having more fun with that than any of the meta builds.

Also I'm willing to bet the sweeps change was more to convince us not to riot over a nerf. They did it because players couldn't move out of the snare/dmg (like they can't do with wrecking blow) and they dressed up the intent like a hand-me-down ragdoll on Xmas.

I'm always interesting in theory crafting new builds, and I run a lot of different and weird stuff on my Magplar, but my desire to do so is really drained for this patch /: We'll see with the patch.

It was definitely due to a mix of all those reasons, but mostly being given major mending. With that out of the window, they should buff our sweep heal. Would allow us to be more offensive and less defensive, anyways.

I would take a break from ESO till the NDA is lifted and everyone else gets to test Morrowind. Afterall it's a game and you should be having fun . Catch up on new games, grab a beer, and enjoy the free time you have!

Then come back, and give it another shot. There's plenty of builds to make that the playerbase keeps shooting down based on a lack of incentive to explore the sets given.

It's not that I don't have fun in ESO. I obviously do if I still play it. I love my friends and community here, and I'm very guild driven. I'm just disappointed in ZoS.

Also, I do play with a lot of different sets. I waste 90% of my gold playing with builds. And I'm cool with that, I enjoy it. I just don't enjoy my group utility being destroyed. I play ESO to be a support player. So having things like repent taken away really are just so disappointing. We'll all recover with the patch, I don't deny it at all. I know I'll adapt, and I know everyone else will. But it's just ZoS not letting wounds close x:

Anyways, we'll all be fine. But it doesn't excuse ZoS from not listening to Templar player feedback.

I agree on your last statement. None of it excuses them.

Happy hunting!

SanTii.92

I just want to say that magplars are so incredibly busted on no cp pts right now it's not even funny.

itscompton

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ZoS, yet again, has ignored what Templar mains (specifically Magicka Templars) have been telling them this whole time. We want a CC on shards, not javelin. Javelin, as previously mentioned, ruins the entire Magplar playstyle. It will now push people further out of our range, and that is something that, for a clunky class, is even more hindering. So, what, now we have an even worse CC than Toppling (WHICH BARELY CAUSES CC AS IS BECAUSE IT'S SO SLOW AND CLUNKY), our shards got a "buff", but they don't help much for small-scale PvP. I'm just appalled at this point at how ZoS continues to ignore actual Templar players.

You stole our repent, you removed blinding flashes, took away shard CC, then you put shards on the same cooldown as orbs, stealth removed the new resource restore to the caster from shards, you took away major mending, you continue to ruin toppling charge, you will probably take away purifying light soon, you've nerfed RD and not even in the correct way it should have been done, you've nerfed BoL several times, so what is next? We are a class and spec trapped by channels and the idea that we should be stationary, yet being stationary and channeling are two things that are not always or often possible in PvP. You wonder why Magplar sustain goes down the gutter so quickly if you don't manage it correctly? It's because we are constantly rebuilding our "house" only to have to move out of it almost immediately after. Because ZoS doesn't understand the need to have tools to "stand our ground", like shard CC. If you want Magicka Templars to "build a house" then you have to stop taking away our tools to defend it. What in the actual [insert bad word here] do you see being useful with the Javelin "buff"??? We're supposed to lay out our defense mechanics, only to push someone out of it? So that means you want us to leave our defense, and then spend resources to lay our defense back down, only for the enemy to get out of it again anyways. It's just hilarious that anyone would even think this is a good thing.

I don't get it anymore. I'm tired of trying to. AR50 is soon, and I will probably be shelving my Magplar because, at this point, the class is a mess and ZoS doesn't show any initiative to fix it. Instead they nerf it based off of broken builds like Reactive/Malubeth and refuse to see the real problems. I'm not saying the class can't be strong anymore in the right hands, it will always be played well by players who actually know how to play it, but it's just such a disaster at this point that it just makes me sad.

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Instead of shelving your main, let's find unique ways to play them . Don't even worry about gold stats, just craft purple gear because our toolkit is messy anyway lol. I made a speedy-dodgy magplar and have been having more fun with that than any of the meta builds.

Also I'm willing to bet the sweeps change was more to convince us not to riot over a nerf. They did it because players couldn't move out of the snare/dmg (like they can't do with wrecking blow) and they dressed up the intent like a hand-me-down ragdoll on Xmas.

I'm always interesting in theory crafting new builds, and I run a lot of different and weird stuff on my Magplar, but my desire to do so is really drained for this patch /: We'll see with the patch.

It was definitely due to a mix of all those reasons, but mostly being given major mending. With that out of the window, they should buff our sweep heal. Would allow us to be more offensive and less defensive, anyways.

I would take a break from ESO till the NDA is lifted and everyone else gets to test Morrowind. Afterall it's a game and you should be having fun . Catch up on new games, grab a beer, and enjoy the free time you have!

Then come back, and give it another shot. There's plenty of builds to make that the playerbase keeps shooting down based on a lack of incentive to explore the sets given.

I think this issue is not that we can't make a functional build that will work and "adapt" to the next patch, it's that they are becoming less distinctive with every patch.

• i can Jesus Beam, but undodgeable channels are a dime a dozen now (crushing shock, prevalence of lightning heavy attack, cliff racer).
• They improved Backlash, but is it really all the much different than Curse?
• the bug buff we got was adding three meters to the knock back of Javelin. Exactly what does Javelin do aside from stun? Nothing
• This all aside from the loss of repenting stam for allies, damage reduction nerf for Remembrance, shared cooldown with synergy/orbs.

I didn't make this post theoretically. I've been on the PTS and I've did some BGs and have done vMA thrice (with different builds). I know a templar can be effective next patch. Its that their toolkit is less distinctive and that effectiveness is less and less coming from being a Templar than it is just by wearing gear, and getting flat percent power boosts from the CP system and other generic buffs available to all the other classes.

Might as well say it just does nothing since the fully leveled version of the stun on this ability for Magplar is 1.8 seconds even if not broken. And with the knockback that mean sweeps will never get a chance to land a single blow while the target is still stunned.

danno8

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Ah yes, you are correct there. That was exact reason they nerfed the heal from 40% to 35% (or whatever) when they made Major Mending a part of Sacred Ground. (It was an undocumented change too IIRC.)

If you recall way back, Sweeps used to do more damage the lower health the target had. Then they bumped the bonus up to 170% during a PTS and dropped the "low health" bonus. But they then nerfed the bonus down to the current level but never compensated for the "low health" loss, making the skill worse in AoE situations.

usmcjdking

danno8 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Ah yes, you are correct there. That was exact reason they nerfed the heal from 40% to 35% (or whatever) when they made Major Mending a part of Sacred Ground. (It was an undocumented change too IIRC.)

If you recall way back, Sweeps used to do more damage the lower health the target had. Then they bumped the bonus up to 170% during a PTS and dropped the "low health" bonus. But they then nerfed the bonus down to the current level but never compensated for the "low health" loss, making the skill worse in AoE situations.

Biting jabs used to do more critical damage to low health targets.

danno8

usmcjdking wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Ah yes, you are correct there. That was exact reason they nerfed the heal from 40% to 35% (or whatever) when they made Major Mending a part of Sacred Ground. (It was an undocumented change too IIRC.)

If you recall way back, Sweeps used to do more damage the lower health the target had. Then they bumped the bonus up to 170% during a PTS and dropped the "low health" bonus. But they then nerfed the bonus down to the current level but never compensated for the "low health" loss, making the skill worse in AoE situations.

Biting jabs used to do more critical damage to low health targets.

Yah that was it.

They dropped that bonus when they bumped the single target damage to 170% (up from the original 110%). But then they thought it was too strong so they dropped the bonus down to 140%, and when I ran the math it was an overall nerf to the skill. This was all during a PTS cycle.

It's just another example of nerfing "a" because we added "b", but then nerfing "b" again but leaving the nerfed "a". Resulting in an overall nerf.

SorataArisugawa

Dark_Aether wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

Templars definitely got the shaft here to make the Warden more appealing. It's just not the same class anymore.

It's ok! I'm sure if they introduce a necromancer class, they will show the same lack of creativity and Sorcerers will suffer for it.

What will they do? Take our boring rota away? Force us on using destro stuff? Give us chunky DoT's? Make our DPS depending on spacetaking pets with boring gameplay?

But wait... We have all these already... Play a sorc and see, how boring it is. And get back to the templar and enjoy that you have at least some moves...

Narvuntien

Home ground advantage is what templars should be about, fight me in this zone where I have advantage.

Templars have all these area spells, but they now have no way to keep anyone or anything inside of them... sure some movement slows but they are so weak with such strong gap closers and you have to be close to deal damage it doesn't really matter that much.

If I was designing templars this is what I would focus on.

I would make Solar prison and actual prison. Basically creating your own duelling arena that stuns if anyone tries to leave.... then you spear knock back them into the wall.

I am sure if you removed breath of life people would also say you killed templars, but if you instead replaced the idea of them being healers, with the idea of holding a zone down people would still enjoy them instead of actually being breath of life spammers.

Minno

usmcjdking wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Also, since you took away major mending, can we have our sweeps heal buffed back up? Since, you know, you nerfed that because we had major mending in the first place.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Ah yes, you are correct there. That was exact reason they nerfed the heal from 40% to 35% (or whatever) when they made Major Mending a part of Sacred Ground. (It was an undocumented change too IIRC.)

If you recall way back, Sweeps used to do more damage the lower health the target had. Then they bumped the bonus up to 170% during a PTS and dropped the "low health" bonus. But they then nerfed the bonus down to the current level but never compensated for the "low health" loss, making the skill worse in AoE situations.

Biting jabs used to do more critical damage to low health targets.

It would be nice to have magplar do more channels but actually have them do damage to offset the fact we are locked into them instead of being able to AC like other classes.

Minno

Narvuntien wrote: »

Home ground advantage is what templars should be about, fight me in this zone where I have advantage.

Templars have all these area spells, but they now have no way to keep anyone or anything inside of them... sure some movement slows but they are so weak with such strong gap closers and you have to be close to deal damage it doesn't really matter that much.

If I was designing templars this is what I would focus on.

I would make Solar prison and actual prison. Basically creating your own duelling arena that stuns if anyone tries to leave.... then you spear knock back them into the wall.

I am sure if you removed breath of life people would also say you killed templars, but if you instead replaced the idea of them being healers, with the idea of holding a zone down people would still enjoy them instead of actually being breath of life spammers.

I agree. They can spread the heals around so most of the dmg spells offer a heal to them. or have resto tree have a chance to proc a burst heal on dmg (the antithesis of sorcs who have an execute on dmg below a certain percent.)

return the low health execute/critical dmg to jabs/aedric spear line and replace RD with a spell that also (but uniquely meaning not damn talons) locks players in the templars house.

itscompton

Narvuntien wrote: »

Home ground advantage is what templars should be about, fight me in this zone where I have advantage.

Templars have all these area spells, but they now have no way to keep anyone or anything inside of them... sure some movement slows but they are so weak with such strong gap closers and you have to be close to deal damage it doesn't really matter that much.

If I was designing templars this is what I would focus on.

I would make Solar prison and actual prison. Basically creating your own duelling arena that stuns if anyone tries to leave.... then you spear knock back them into the wall.

I am sure if you removed breath of life people would also say you killed templars, but if you instead replaced the idea of them being healers, with the idea of holding a zone down people would still enjoy them instead of actually being breath of life spammers.

BoL spammers huh? Considering Templars have no escapability, no reliable CC and crap damage mitigation outside of running S&B how else do you propose a Templar stay alive when a Stam character gets in their face and unloads 3-4 animation canceled attacks every two seconds? Spam mist until they run out of magic? Because even using elusive mist isn't allowing a Templar to escape anyone since the major expedition buff it gives is basically cancelled out by the fact being misted puts you in sneak mode. Fight them toe to toe? Templars don't have the burst to do it.
If you put someone into BoL spam mode you've basically already won the fight because with no mitigation and no burst the Templar can't ever switch back to offense for long enough to turn the fight.

Narvuntien

itscompton wrote: »

BoL spammers huh? Considering Templars have no escapability, no reliable CC and crap damage mitigation outside of running S&B how else do you propose a Templar stay alive when a Stam character gets in their face and unloads 3-4 animation canceled attacks every two seconds? Spam mist until they run out of magic? Because even using elusive mist isn't allowing a Templar to escape anyone since the major expedition buff it gives is basically cancelled out by the fact being misted puts you in sneak mode. Fight them toe to toe? Templars don't have the burst to do it.
If you put someone into BoL spam mode you've basically already won the fight because with no mitigation and no burst the Templar can't ever switch back to offense for long enough to turn the fight.

It was a half thought out idea at 2 am.

What I am saying is that you give templar those things and remove the focus on healing (I am a BoL spammer) since they are clear they don't want them to be the only healers.

When the stam character does that I'd still probably want to have S&B and heavy armor, that is the nature of PVP, all the other classes don't really have much option when that happens either. I wouldn't really want to be giving Templars too much defense or they would be too much like DKs. Honestly I think I'd prefer major mending stayed.. but perhaps in a more conditional form.

What I would want to do is to have a kind of Push and Pull type of CC, that is really only available on DK chains right now. But templar is now focused on keeping you close. They will still not have burst but now they bring a lot more non heal utility to the table.

Examples:
So rather than the instant CC of Talons I propose a delayed snare one of the area of effect skills. So if you can keep them in the zone the will get snared.

Healing ritual is a useless skill, templar has plenty of better heal skills. How about instead of a heal it is a small AoE chains that pulls mobs towards you. one morph also pulls one from further away and the other allows you to channel on the run. Just like it works as a heal but now it is CC. Suddenly it is a great ability.

Solar Prison, stun on exit of the zone.

Etc.

You don't need to give shards back a stun.. but you have to give templar some CC.... because right now they have only single target CC it might work in PVP but for PVE it is horribly ineffcient and so I just can't do anything other than heal spam when we get hit with a big mob.

usmcjdking

Javelin nerf needs to be reverted. 5m to 8m was not a buff. Javelin now knocks people straight out of a templars killbox and has become completely useless.

Calindel

Every single change they have made to Templars to this date is just proof that Wroebel mains a Mag Sorc and sleeps in Harry Potter pajamas. I still am trying to get my head around increasing the knockback on javelin, WTactualFK........90% of our rotation is sweeps, why would we want to make our target even further away. The time it takes our toppling charge animation to go off, the enemy has already cc breaked and hit block or bashed us. For the love of god Zenimax just stop it already.

DisgracefulMind

Narvuntien wrote: »

Home ground advantage is what templars should be about, fight me in this zone where I have advantage.

Templars have all these area spells, but they now have no way to keep anyone or anything inside of them... sure some movement slows but they are so weak with such strong gap closers and you have to be close to deal damage it doesn't really matter that much.

If I was designing templars this is what I would focus on.

I would make Solar prison and actual prison. Basically creating your own duelling arena that stuns if anyone tries to leave.... then you spear knock back them into the wall.

I am sure if you removed breath of life people would also say you killed templars, but if you instead replaced the idea of them being healers, with the idea of holding a zone down people would still enjoy them instead of actually being breath of life spammers.

Our "house", as Wrobel so eloquently put it.

Just give us back Blazing Spear CC. It allowed us to trap people in our "house" for a brief period of time. It was our CC, our means to stay in our defenses, and allowed us to put pressure. We can still apply pressure, of course, but without a reliable CC? Just lol. Let's put it this way, and I have tested this many times on PTS with the new Javelin knockback: As soon as you Javelin someone you have to now charge them since they are FAR from your Sweeps, the time it takes for you to use your slow gap closer (toppling), they're already up and able to dodge and run far out of your range yet again. This does not give CC options to Magplars lol. And this crap about Eclipse? Okay, cool, Eclipse will be sort of brutal against a caster magblade, but for anything else? The duration for one ends up just giving people free CC immunity, and two the only thing that really can be actually reflected back and CC an enemy is a Crystal Frag...which I don't think any smart sorc would throw out while they have a giant bubble around them....

None of it makes sense. ZoS please Dx

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Feanor

Btw, when was the last time you saw a Nova in PvP?

Joy_Division

Feanor wrote: »

Btw, when was the last time you saw a Nova in PvP?

The recruits and Tyros still occasionally drop them.

Frenkthevile

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Dark_Aether wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

Templars definitely got the shaft here to make the Warden more appealing. It's just not the same class anymore.

It's ok! I'm sure if they introduce a necromancer class, they will show the same lack of creativity and Sorcerers will suffer for it.

What will they do? Take our boring rota away? Force us on using destro stuff? Give us chunky DoT's? Make our DPS depending on spacetaking pets with boring gameplay?

But wait... We have all these already... Play a sorc and see, how boring it is. And get back to the templar and enjoy that you have at least some moves...

Are you kidding???
Sorcs got shield-staking, pets that play PvE for you, many SETS designed only for them to use(pet, lighting, etc.), and wait...best passives in the game and a TELEPORT!
Templars got a shield that scales on health, runes on the ground that make him an immovable obj., sets based on elemental dmg that overall do not mix well because of the ''generic magic dmg'' Templar inflicts, terrible nerfed passives(no major mending and no spellpower on balanced warrior), bugged gap-closer since Day1.

Wing

agree with you on that classes are losing there unique feel and abilities.

power should have been removed from CP and classes should remain unique and powerful (CP may vary person to person, but everyone has a class)

all the unique class aspects are being changed to generic non stacking buffs.

this is really sad.

this is actually the first game I decided to only play 1 character in, because all the rest are going to essentially do the same thing with very small variation / flavor.

Silver_Strider

I'm waiting til ZOS outright loses their collective minds and somehow finds a way to merge the CP system to class skills and creates some abomination system that allows us to dump our CP into our abilities to improve their effectiveness.

BraidasNM

lf blazing spear cc for my house