[Video] LeifyEric Dual Wield Magicka Sorc Outnumbered PvP

NightbladeMechanics

gibous wrote: »

Great vid! And thx for the shoutout @LeifErickson - it's been great having your feedback/insight on some of the variables we've been tweaking to push the build even further.

DW is not for everyone, which is part of what makes it so fun. One of the best things in ESO is being an absolute monster in a spec not many others are running.

Red, you and Leif would be absolute monsters naked wielding a shield and no sword.

Malamar1229

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

not everyone wants to spend 3 years in CoA trying to get a staff

Malamar1229

LeifErickson wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

I can only think of 4 players that run DW on mag sorc on NA and that includes me. Maybe 6 players if I count people I have seen play it over 3 patches ago.

I gotta agree with Leif, I dropped DW around October after running it for as long as I can recall. I think all my vids in my sig are DW.

When I see a DW sorc on TF, its usually one of the 4 Leif alludes to.

EdTerra

lol I feel so weak with my melee magblade now

well good job ^^

Taylor_MB

LeifErickson wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Amazing video as always Leif.

I'm concerned no one has mentioned S+B MagSorc in this thread. I've only been playing it for about 3 weeks but I'm really enjoying the max magicka boost, allows me to run 51k in AS with a 12k hardened ward. But it's lack of mention has got me scratching my head that I'm missing something obvious.

I'm running 5necro and 5spinners with a flexible back bar weapon depending how I'm feeling. I would definitely try DW, but don't have the coin to sink into 2 spinners sharpened swords and don't really like any other sets I've seen (VD was alright, 2willpower and 3ancient was decent, both of them would be easy to find DW sharp, but Spinners is way better for me atm).

51k magicka in Azuras? Do you have good sustain with that?

Don't want to hijack your thread for theorycraft for Tay, but stats sheet:

Fully self buffed, all purple gear, some wrong traits.

Weaknesses (shh don't tell anyone)
• No stam - if I get CC'd on cooldown I have to completely avoid dodge rolling and blocking
• Skill slots - in order to double slot and get that magicka I can't slot crushing shock or streak (unless I use overload bar, tried for a little while but was not very smooth with it), so weaker against dark dealing stamsorcs and wing DK's (although that is where the DBoS > Frag Proc comes in handy).
• Low spell crit, but as you know building for crit is AS is even less advisable then it is in TF.

Neutral
• 15.6k HP is actually really fun, everyone targets you cause they think you are squishy and they waste a lot of time on you before switching to a weaker target. I've had someone whisper me saying something like "you are more tanky then a 100k HP DK" which made me blush. Have only ever been ganked off my horse (and not using defensive rune anymore).
• Twilight dependency - when it goes down it's a problem, but that only ever happens in zerg v zerg when it decides to charge and take on everyone by itself. I just have to pay attention to recast before I need it to heal.

Advantages
• 12k damage shield in AS is stupid high.
• Enough damage to consistently blow up standard dps builds with 1 rotation.
• Unbuffed (even without combat medic) twilight heals me for 5k a pop non-crit.
• Double slotted frags so constant procs means I can very quickly switch from shield spamming to offense.

----

So basically the point of all this. Should I just stop being a cheap *** and save for 2x spinners sharpened sword? As @Minalan said, am I losing too much penetration and spell damage by using a shield despite the 1k extra base magicka it gives?

This is something I would usually just test myself, but sharpened spinner swords are not exactly plentiful or cheap.

Biro123

I barely hit 48k with spinners and Necro - but that's with CP... But saying that - its with destro staff - which means only one monster piece - so losing mag there - and not getting undaunted mettle because of it. But going to no-cp, I generally lose around 5k magicka - which is miles from 51k.. Are you sure that's in Azura??

Taylor_MB

Biro123 wrote: »

I barely hit 48k with spinners and Necro - but that's with CP... But saying that - its with destro staff - which means only one monster piece - so losing mag there - and not getting undaunted mettle because of it. But going to no-cp, I generally lose around 5k magicka - which is miles from 51k.. Are you sure that's in Azura??

Yes sir. Screenshot was taken in AS on a random forgotten rock. I am Altmer, so that helps with max magicka, and as you alluded to I'm getting full undaunted mettle bonus.

Seeing Leif's vid is making me actually think about DW. Deslotting Spinners shield only drops my mag down to 49.6k so with extra pen and spell damage from DW that does seem the way to go. No way I'm affording or farming 2 spinners sharp swords anytime soon though

Lord_Hev

Biro123 wrote: »

I barely hit 48k with spinners and Necro - but that's with CP... But saying that - its with destro staff - which means only one monster piece - so losing mag there - and not getting undaunted mettle because of it. But going to no-cp, I generally lose around 5k magicka - which is miles from 51k.. Are you sure that's in Azura??

My yolo DW spec hits 52k with no CP. 58k with CP. No pets.




Im still DW sorc, been DW since 1.8 I never left.

Can confirm Red's build is legit. Didn't think DW sorc could function with no CP till we team purpled a mini DiG raid a few days ago.

Minalan

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

not everyone wants to spend 3 years in CoA trying to get a staff

Just because YOU can't get one in 200 runs.

Malamar1229 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

I can only think of 4 players that run DW on mag sorc on NA and that includes me. Maybe 6 players if I count people I have seen play it over 3 patches ago.

I gotta agree with Leif, I dropped DW around October after running it for as long as I can recall. I think all my vids in my sig are DW.

When I see a DW sorc on TF, its usually one of the 4 Leif alludes to.

I ran it back in the days when it was. He

Taylor_MB wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Amazing video as always Leif.

I'm concerned no one has mentioned S+B MagSorc in this thread. I've only been playing it for about 3 weeks but I'm really enjoying the max magicka boost, allows me to run 51k in AS with a 12k hardened ward. But it's lack of mention has got me scratching my head that I'm missing something obvious.

I'm running 5necro and 5spinners with a flexible back bar weapon depending how I'm feeling. I would definitely try DW, but don't have the coin to sink into 2 spinners sharpened swords and don't really like any other sets I've seen (VD was alright, 2willpower and 3ancient was decent, both of them would be easy to find DW sharp, but Spinners is way better for me atm).

51k magicka in Azuras? Do you have good sustain with that?

Don't want to hijack your thread for theorycraft for Tay, but stats sheet:

Fully self buffed, all purple gear, some wrong traits.

Weaknesses (shh don't tell anyone)
• No stam - if I get CC'd on cooldown I have to completely avoid dodge rolling and blocking
• Skill slots - in order to double slot and get that magicka I can't slot crushing shock or streak (unless I use overload bar, tried for a little while but was not very smooth with it), so weaker against dark dealing stamsorcs and wing DK's (although that is where the DBoS > Frag Proc comes in handy).
• Low spell crit, but as you know building for crit is AS is even less advisable then it is in TF.

Neutral
• 15.6k HP is actually really fun, everyone targets you cause they think you are squishy and they waste a lot of time on you before switching to a weaker target. I've had someone whisper me saying something like "you are more tanky then a 100k HP DK" which made me blush. Have only ever been ganked off my horse (and not using defensive rune anymore).
• Twilight dependency - when it goes down it's a problem, but that only ever happens in zerg v zerg when it decides to charge and take on everyone by itself. I just have to pay attention to recast before I need it to heal.

Advantages
• 12k damage shield in AS is stupid high.
• Enough damage to consistently blow up standard dps builds with 1 rotation.
• Unbuffed (even without combat medic) twilight heals me for 5k a pop non-crit.
• Double slotted frags so constant procs means I can very quickly switch from shield spamming to offense.

----

So basically the point of all this. Should I just stop being a cheap *** and save for 2x spinners sharpened sword? As @Minalan said, am I losing too much penetration and spell damage by using a shield despite the 1k extra base magicka it gives?

This is something I would usually just test myself, but sharpened spinner swords are not exactly plentiful or cheap.

Grab a pair of sharpened willpower swords, they're cheap and worth 1400 max magicka alone. I think mine was 20K for one, and I got the other for free in the IC trophy room.

Last time I played on AS, I was running something like shadow dancer 3 piece, 4 piece necropotence (because *** pets), willpower swords, and two mismatched max magicka monster pieces. It was amazing fun but the health was bad with witch brew.

I only ran with witch brew for regen, and mage light double slotted. So the build had more utility.

I ended up balancing it using Lich set instead of shadow dancer, and dropping one necropotence piece, because you really need sustain on AS. AS really needs 'special' builds to work.

Taylor_MB

Minalan wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

not everyone wants to spend 3 years in CoA trying to get a staff

Just because YOU can't get one in 200 runs.

Malamar1229 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

I can only think of 4 players that run DW on mag sorc on NA and that includes me. Maybe 6 players if I count people I have seen play it over 3 patches ago.

I gotta agree with Leif, I dropped DW around October after running it for as long as I can recall. I think all my vids in my sig are DW.

When I see a DW sorc on TF, its usually one of the 4 Leif alludes to.

I ran it back in the days when it was. He

Taylor_MB wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Amazing video as always Leif.

I'm concerned no one has mentioned S+B MagSorc in this thread. I've only been playing it for about 3 weeks but I'm really enjoying the max magicka boost, allows me to run 51k in AS with a 12k hardened ward. But it's lack of mention has got me scratching my head that I'm missing something obvious.

I'm running 5necro and 5spinners with a flexible back bar weapon depending how I'm feeling. I would definitely try DW, but don't have the coin to sink into 2 spinners sharpened swords and don't really like any other sets I've seen (VD was alright, 2willpower and 3ancient was decent, both of them would be easy to find DW sharp, but Spinners is way better for me atm).

51k magicka in Azuras? Do you have good sustain with that?

Don't want to hijack your thread for theorycraft for Tay, but stats sheet:

Fully self buffed, all purple gear, some wrong traits.

Weaknesses (shh don't tell anyone)
• No stam - if I get CC'd on cooldown I have to completely avoid dodge rolling and blocking
• Skill slots - in order to double slot and get that magicka I can't slot crushing shock or streak (unless I use overload bar, tried for a little while but was not very smooth with it), so weaker against dark dealing stamsorcs and wing DK's (although that is where the DBoS > Frag Proc comes in handy).
• Low spell crit, but as you know building for crit is AS is even less advisable then it is in TF.

Neutral
• 15.6k HP is actually really fun, everyone targets you cause they think you are squishy and they waste a lot of time on you before switching to a weaker target. I've had someone whisper me saying something like "you are more tanky then a 100k HP DK" which made me blush. Have only ever been ganked off my horse (and not using defensive rune anymore).
• Twilight dependency - when it goes down it's a problem, but that only ever happens in zerg v zerg when it decides to charge and take on everyone by itself. I just have to pay attention to recast before I need it to heal.

Advantages
• 12k damage shield in AS is stupid high.
• Enough damage to consistently blow up standard dps builds with 1 rotation.
• Unbuffed (even without combat medic) twilight heals me for 5k a pop non-crit.
• Double slotted frags so constant procs means I can very quickly switch from shield spamming to offense.

----

So basically the point of all this. Should I just stop being a cheap *** and save for 2x spinners sharpened sword? As @Minalan said, am I losing too much penetration and spell damage by using a shield despite the 1k extra base magicka it gives?

This is something I would usually just test myself, but sharpened spinner swords are not exactly plentiful or cheap.

Grab a pair of sharpened willpower swords, they're cheap and worth 1400 max magicka alone. I think mine was 20K for one, and I got the other for free in the IC trophy room.

Last time I played on AS, I was running something like shadow dancer 3 piece, 4 piece necropotence (because *** pets), willpower swords, and two mismatched max magicka monster pieces. It was amazing fun but the health was bad with witch brew.

I only ran with witch brew for regen, and mage light double slotted. So the build had more utility.

I ended up balancing it using Lich set instead of shadow dancer, and dropping one necropotence piece, because you really need sustain on AS.

That's a really good idea, dropping monster helms for 2x sharpened willpower only loses 0.5 of a magicka set bonus but gives all the DW benefits.

My only reservation is my DW is only level 32, and despite all the time in PvP my S+B is still only level 49, I'm imagining how long it will take to rank up and it's a painful thought, haha.

Minalan

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

not everyone wants to spend 3 years in CoA trying to get a staff

Just because YOU can't get one in 200 runs.

Malamar1229 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

I can only think of 4 players that run DW on mag sorc on NA and that includes me. Maybe 6 players if I count people I have seen play it over 3 patches ago.

I gotta agree with Leif, I dropped DW around October after running it for as long as I can recall. I think all my vids in my sig are DW.

When I see a DW sorc on TF, its usually one of the 4 Leif alludes to.

I ran it back in the days when it was. He

Taylor_MB wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Amazing video as always Leif.

I'm concerned no one has mentioned S+B MagSorc in this thread. I've only been playing it for about 3 weeks but I'm really enjoying the max magicka boost, allows me to run 51k in AS with a 12k hardened ward. But it's lack of mention has got me scratching my head that I'm missing something obvious.

I'm running 5necro and 5spinners with a flexible back bar weapon depending how I'm feeling. I would definitely try DW, but don't have the coin to sink into 2 spinners sharpened swords and don't really like any other sets I've seen (VD was alright, 2willpower and 3ancient was decent, both of them would be easy to find DW sharp, but Spinners is way better for me atm).

51k magicka in Azuras? Do you have good sustain with that?

Don't want to hijack your thread for theorycraft for Tay, but stats sheet:

Fully self buffed, all purple gear, some wrong traits.

Weaknesses (shh don't tell anyone)
• No stam - if I get CC'd on cooldown I have to completely avoid dodge rolling and blocking
• Skill slots - in order to double slot and get that magicka I can't slot crushing shock or streak (unless I use overload bar, tried for a little while but was not very smooth with it), so weaker against dark dealing stamsorcs and wing DK's (although that is where the DBoS > Frag Proc comes in handy).
• Low spell crit, but as you know building for crit is AS is even less advisable then it is in TF.

Neutral
• 15.6k HP is actually really fun, everyone targets you cause they think you are squishy and they waste a lot of time on you before switching to a weaker target. I've had someone whisper me saying something like "you are more tanky then a 100k HP DK" which made me blush. Have only ever been ganked off my horse (and not using defensive rune anymore).
• Twilight dependency - when it goes down it's a problem, but that only ever happens in zerg v zerg when it decides to charge and take on everyone by itself. I just have to pay attention to recast before I need it to heal.

Advantages
• 12k damage shield in AS is stupid high.
• Enough damage to consistently blow up standard dps builds with 1 rotation.
• Unbuffed (even without combat medic) twilight heals me for 5k a pop non-crit.
• Double slotted frags so constant procs means I can very quickly switch from shield spamming to offense.

----

So basically the point of all this. Should I just stop being a cheap *** and save for 2x spinners sharpened sword? As @Minalan said, am I losing too much penetration and spell damage by using a shield despite the 1k extra base magicka it gives?

This is something I would usually just test myself, but sharpened spinner swords are not exactly plentiful or cheap.

Grab a pair of sharpened willpower swords, they're cheap and worth 1400 max magicka alone. I think mine was 20K for one, and I got the other for free in the IC trophy room.

Last time I played on AS, I was running something like shadow dancer 3 piece, 4 piece necropotence (because *** pets), willpower swords, and two mismatched max magicka monster pieces. It was amazing fun but the health was bad with witch brew.

I only ran with witch brew for regen, and mage light double slotted. So the build had more utility.

I ended up balancing it using Lich set instead of shadow dancer, and dropping one necropotence piece, because you really need sustain on AS.

That's a really good idea, dropping monster helms for 2x sharpened willpower only loses 0.5 of a magicka set bonus but gives all the DW benefits.

My only reservation is my DW is only level 32, and despite all the time in PvP my S+B is still only level 49, I'm imagining how long it will take to rank up and it's a painful thought, haha.

Just do the bounties and the rank will hit 50 before you know it.

Losing the monster set is a bad idea because you also lose the undaunted passives. They're the only heavy/medium pieces you can get in [magicka] drop sets.

I'd probably drop spinner set entirely for willpower swords and ancient grace jewelry. Wear mismatched max magicka monster pieces (medium/heavy) and keep four pieces of necropotence. I'd shoot for the best max magicka I could possibly get without using pets or bound aegis (hate those so bad). Since it's AS one monster piece with stam regen (bloodspawn) wouldn't be a bad idea either.

LeifErickson

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

not everyone wants to spend 3 years in CoA trying to get a staff

Just because YOU can't get one in 200 runs.

Malamar1229 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

I can only think of 4 players that run DW on mag sorc on NA and that includes me. Maybe 6 players if I count people I have seen play it over 3 patches ago.

I gotta agree with Leif, I dropped DW around October after running it for as long as I can recall. I think all my vids in my sig are DW.

When I see a DW sorc on TF, its usually one of the 4 Leif alludes to.

I ran it back in the days when it was. He

Taylor_MB wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Amazing video as always Leif.

I'm concerned no one has mentioned S+B MagSorc in this thread. I've only been playing it for about 3 weeks but I'm really enjoying the max magicka boost, allows me to run 51k in AS with a 12k hardened ward. But it's lack of mention has got me scratching my head that I'm missing something obvious.

I'm running 5necro and 5spinners with a flexible back bar weapon depending how I'm feeling. I would definitely try DW, but don't have the coin to sink into 2 spinners sharpened swords and don't really like any other sets I've seen (VD was alright, 2willpower and 3ancient was decent, both of them would be easy to find DW sharp, but Spinners is way better for me atm).

51k magicka in Azuras? Do you have good sustain with that?

Don't want to hijack your thread for theorycraft for Tay, but stats sheet:

Fully self buffed, all purple gear, some wrong traits.

Weaknesses (shh don't tell anyone)
• No stam - if I get CC'd on cooldown I have to completely avoid dodge rolling and blocking
• Skill slots - in order to double slot and get that magicka I can't slot crushing shock or streak (unless I use overload bar, tried for a little while but was not very smooth with it), so weaker against dark dealing stamsorcs and wing DK's (although that is where the DBoS > Frag Proc comes in handy).
• Low spell crit, but as you know building for crit is AS is even less advisable then it is in TF.

Neutral
• 15.6k HP is actually really fun, everyone targets you cause they think you are squishy and they waste a lot of time on you before switching to a weaker target. I've had someone whisper me saying something like "you are more tanky then a 100k HP DK" which made me blush. Have only ever been ganked off my horse (and not using defensive rune anymore).
• Twilight dependency - when it goes down it's a problem, but that only ever happens in zerg v zerg when it decides to charge and take on everyone by itself. I just have to pay attention to recast before I need it to heal.

Advantages
• 12k damage shield in AS is stupid high.
• Enough damage to consistently blow up standard dps builds with 1 rotation.
• Unbuffed (even without combat medic) twilight heals me for 5k a pop non-crit.
• Double slotted frags so constant procs means I can very quickly switch from shield spamming to offense.

----

So basically the point of all this. Should I just stop being a cheap *** and save for 2x spinners sharpened sword? As @Minalan said, am I losing too much penetration and spell damage by using a shield despite the 1k extra base magicka it gives?

This is something I would usually just test myself, but sharpened spinner swords are not exactly plentiful or cheap.

Grab a pair of sharpened willpower swords, they're cheap and worth 1400 max magicka alone. I think mine was 20K for one, and I got the other for free in the IC trophy room.

Last time I played on AS, I was running something like shadow dancer 3 piece, 4 piece necropotence (because *** pets), willpower swords, and two mismatched max magicka monster pieces. It was amazing fun but the health was bad with witch brew.

I only ran with witch brew for regen, and mage light double slotted. So the build had more utility.

I ended up balancing it using Lich set instead of shadow dancer, and dropping one necropotence piece, because you really need sustain on AS.

That's a really good idea, dropping monster helms for 2x sharpened willpower only loses 0.5 of a magicka set bonus but gives all the DW benefits.

My only reservation is my DW is only level 32, and despite all the time in PvP my S+B is still only level 49, I'm imagining how long it will take to rank up and it's a painful thought, haha.

What are you usually hitting people for with your curses and frags and stuff?

NightbladeMechanics

@Taylor_MB building crit in pvp in general is not only advisable, but strong, and building crit in Azura's is even more important than building it in CP land because you lose 12% from CP passives. For example, Leif and Reddington and I all switched to the thief and ran Major Prophecy nonstop during no CP week. They traded a damage glyph for regen to change the atronach out for the thief, and their kill potential still noticeably increased.

In order to kill a non-potato, you have to crit them. Hard. Damn this misconception. I'm going to turn that on its head. I've heard it too many times to stand it, and now I'm triggered. Lol

EdTerra wrote: »

lol I feel so weak with my melee magblade now

well good job ^^

My next project after crit theory perhaps!

Ishammael

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Taylor_MB building crit in pvp in general is not only advisable, but strong, and building crit in Azura's is even more important than building it in CP land because you lose 12% from CP passives. For example, Leif and Reddington and I all switched to the thief and ran Major Prophecy nonstop during no CP week. They traded a damage glyph for regen to change the atronach out for the thief, and their kill potential still noticeably increased.

In order to kill a non-potato, you have to crit them. Hard. Damn this misconception. I'm going to turn that on its head. I've heard it too many times to stand it, and now I'm triggered. Lol

EdTerra wrote: »

lol I feel so weak with my melee magblade now

well good job ^^

My next project after crit theory perhaps!

So I"ve started using Flames of Oblivion on my mDK.
It actually legit.

Ishammael

Biro123 wrote: »

I barely hit 48k with spinners and Necro - but that's with CP... But saying that - its with destro staff - which means only one monster piece - so losing mag there - and not getting undaunted mettle because of it. But going to no-cp, I generally lose around 5k magicka - which is miles from 51k.. Are you sure that's in Azura??

Necro + Grace of Ancients + 2pc WIllpower

plus/minus a piece or two.

Inner light, and all those Sorc skills will get you there.

Taylor_MB

Sorry I triggered you Kena, haha. Guess that is another thing I have to take into consideration when I look at improving the build.

LeifErickson wrote: »

What are you usually hitting people for with your curses and frags and stuff?

I can't give reliable numbers cause I have not been paying much attention. Also don't always have Major Sorcery up, using alliance war trash pots with 0 alch skill so not 100% uptime. However, scrolling up through my combat log....

Curse
Crit - 6.5 - 5.7 - 5.2 - 6.8
Non - 4.1 - 4 - 4.2 - 3.8 - 4.8 - 3.9 - 3.5 - 3.1 - 4

DBoS
Crit 6.2 - 6.2
Non 4.2

Frag (proc'd but not empowered, get too bored getting lorebooks)
Crit - 5.1 - 8.2
Non - 5.7 - 6.1 - 6.5 - 6.4 - 4.7

Actually the only people I have in my combat log are Snowman, Star, Jabs, Zane and Memphis - I spent some time feeding their resource farm. So this is a good measure of what damage I'm doing against actually properly gear'd out opponents, probably mostly golded out gear.

(all non-cp)

LeifErickson

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Sorry I triggered you Kena, haha. Guess that is another thing I have to take into consideration when I look at improving the build.

LeifErickson wrote: »

What are you usually hitting people for with your curses and frags and stuff?

I can't give reliable numbers cause I have not been paying much attention. Also don't always have Major Sorcery up, using alliance war trash pots with 0 alch skill so not 100% uptime. However, scrolling up through my combat log....

Curse
Crit - 6.5 - 5.7 - 5.2 - 6.8
Non - 4.1 - 4 - 4.2 - 3.8 - 4.8 - 3.9 - 3.5 - 3.1 - 4

DBoS
Crit 6.2 - 6.2
Non 4.2

Frag (proc'd but not empowered, get too bored getting lorebooks)
Crit - 5.1 - 8.2
Non - 5.7 - 6.1 - 6.5 - 6.4 - 4.7

Actually the only people I have in my combat log are Snowman, Star, Jabs, Zane and Memphis - I spent some time feeding their resource farm. So this is a good measure of what damage I'm doing against actually properly gear'd out opponents, probably mostly golded out gear.

(all non-cp)

I'm pretty sure I hit considerably higher than that in no cp (@gibous can you confirm?), not positive though. And that's with a higher crit chance too. But it's also hard to tell because there are a lot of undergeared players in AS. I think you should consider trying out DW.

Minalan

LeifErickson wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Sorry I triggered you Kena, haha. Guess that is another thing I have to take into consideration when I look at improving the build.

LeifErickson wrote: »

What are you usually hitting people for with your curses and frags and stuff?

I can't give reliable numbers cause I have not been paying much attention. Also don't always have Major Sorcery up, using alliance war trash pots with 0 alch skill so not 100% uptime. However, scrolling up through my combat log....

Curse
Crit - 6.5 - 5.7 - 5.2 - 6.8
Non - 4.1 - 4 - 4.2 - 3.8 - 4.8 - 3.9 - 3.5 - 3.1 - 4

DBoS
Crit 6.2 - 6.2
Non 4.2

Frag (proc'd but not empowered, get too bored getting lorebooks)
Crit - 5.1 - 8.2
Non - 5.7 - 6.1 - 6.5 - 6.4 - 4.7

Actually the only people I have in my combat log are Snowman, Star, Jabs, Zane and Memphis - I spent some time feeding their resource farm. So this is a good measure of what damage I'm doing against actually properly gear'd out opponents, probably mostly golded out gear.

(all non-cp)

I'm pretty sure I hit considerably higher than that in no cp (@gibous can you confirm?), not positive though. And that's with a higher crit chance too. But it's also hard to tell because there are a lot of undergeared players in AS. I think you should consider trying out DW.

The curse crits will be about the same.
The frags will go up considerably by virtue of dual wield plus empowered.
You'll lose damage on light attacks and force pulse to make up for it.

loki547

Malamar1229 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

I can only think of 4 players that run DW on mag sorc on NA and that includes me. Maybe 6 players if I count people I have seen play it over 3 patches ago.

I gotta agree with Leif, I dropped DW around October after running it for as long as I can recall. I think all my vids in my sig are DW.

When I see a DW sorc on TF, its usually one of the 4 Leif alludes to.

Ahem. Dual wield sorc here since beginning of 1.6 aka when Kena was level 27 and Leify was just a glimmer in Reddington's eye.

Minalan

loki547 wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

I can only think of 4 players that run DW on mag sorc on NA and that includes me. Maybe 6 players if I count people I have seen play it over 3 patches ago.

I gotta agree with Leif, I dropped DW around October after running it for as long as I can recall. I think all my vids in my sig are DW.

When I see a DW sorc on TF, its usually one of the 4 Leif alludes to.

Ahem. Dual wield sorc here since beginning of 1.6 aka when Kena was level 27 and Leify was just a glimmer in Reddington's eye.

And Wrobel has had an obsession with nerfing dual wield sorcs ever since.

Lexxypwns

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Taylor_MB building crit in pvp in general is not only advisable, but strong, and building crit in Azura's is even more important than building it in CP land because you lose 12% from CP passives. For example, Leif and Reddington and I all switched to the thief and ran Major Prophecy nonstop during no CP week. They traded a damage glyph for regen to change the atronach out for the thief, and their kill potential still noticeably increased.

In order to kill a non-potato, you have to crit them. Hard. Damn this misconception. I'm going to turn that on its head. I've heard it too many times to stand it, and now I'm triggered. Lol

EdTerra wrote: »

lol I feel so weak with my melee magblade now

well good job ^^

My next project after crit theory perhaps!

I've been preaching forever that crit is the way to go, people seem to think impen mitigates more crit damage than it really does and they definitely underestimate the strength of crit heals

Torbschka

Epic Video!

How do u guys Gattung 50k - 58k maxagicka without pet? @Lord_Hev

What about this setup:

Bar 1:
Willpower sword
Shadowdancer sword

Bar 2:
Shadowdancer resto

Body:
Piraten skeleton / max magicka Monster set
Pirate skeleton / max magicka Monster set
Shadowdancer
Shadowdancer
Necro
Necro
Necro

Jewelry:
Willpower
Willpower
Necro

Cant think of any other, which would give me as high magicka without Pets as these setup.

How mich wouls I reach with this with only max magicka food and without bound aegis?

Lord_Hev

Torbschka wrote: »

Epic Video!

How do u guys Gattung 50k - 58k maxagicka without pet? @Lord_Hev

What about this setup:

Bar 1:
Willpower sword
Shadowdancer sword

Bar 2:
Shadowdancer resto

Body:
Piraten skeleton / max magicka Monster set
Pirate skeleton / max magicka Monster set
Shadowdancer
Shadowdancer
Necro
Necro
Necro

Jewelry:
Willpower
Willpower
Necro

Cant think of any other, which would give me as high magicka without Pets as these setup.

How mich wouls I reach with this with only max magicka food and without bound aegis?

Blue food and no bound aegis, you will sit at around 55k with double magic monster sets and the mage stone.

Glory

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Taylor_MB building crit in pvp in general is not only advisable, but strong, and building crit in Azura's is even more important than building it in CP land because you lose 12% from CP passives. For example, Leif and Reddington and I all switched to the thief and ran Major Prophecy nonstop during no CP week. They traded a damage glyph for regen to change the atronach out for the thief, and their kill potential still noticeably increased.

In order to kill a non-potato, you have to crit them. Hard. Damn this misconception. I'm going to turn that on its head. I've heard it too many times to stand it, and now I'm triggered. Lol

Yeah, the only times I really feel threatened in a reasonably fair fight is when something crits me hard (usually frag, DBoS, or Assassin proc). Just because people run impen doesn't meant that criticals are useless, particularly when you're trying to play a burst down style.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Isn't dw sorc kinda pointless now? You're missing out on like 3% single target damage and sorc is 90% single target damage???

No.

Tooltip and actual damage numbers were tested on PTS and live. Even with 8% single target on destro, dual wield numbers are significantly higher than destro (dual wield also lets you have an extra set piece as well). It's why you see pretty much every good mag sorc running dual wield not destro.

Except for running bsw + lich as dualwiels offers no advantage at all over that setup. Tested by me

Megaservers are 100% different in that regard. Literally nobody runs DW on EU.

I can only think of 4 players that run DW on mag sorc on NA and that includes me. Maybe 6 players if I count people I have seen play it over 3 patches ago.

I gotta agree with Leif, I dropped DW around October after running it for as long as I can recall. I think all my vids in my sig are DW.

When I see a DW sorc on TF, its usually one of the 4 Leif alludes to.

Ahem. Dual wield sorc here since beginning of 1.6 aka when Kena was level 27 and Leify was just a glimmer in Reddington's eye.

[snip]

lol

[Edit for removed post]

gibous

LeifErickson wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Sorry I triggered you Kena, haha. Guess that is another thing I have to take into consideration when I look at improving the build.

LeifErickson wrote: »

What are you usually hitting people for with your curses and frags and stuff?

I can't give reliable numbers cause I have not been paying much attention. Also don't always have Major Sorcery up, using alliance war trash pots with 0 alch skill so not 100% uptime. However, scrolling up through my combat log....

Curse
Crit - 6.5 - 5.7 - 5.2 - 6.8
Non - 4.1 - 4 - 4.2 - 3.8 - 4.8 - 3.9 - 3.5 - 3.1 - 4

DBoS
Crit 6.2 - 6.2
Non 4.2

Frag (proc'd but not empowered, get too bored getting lorebooks)
Crit - 5.1 - 8.2
Non - 5.7 - 6.1 - 6.5 - 6.4 - 4.7

Actually the only people I have in my combat log are Snowman, Star, Jabs, Zane and Memphis - I spent some time feeding their resource farm. So this is a good measure of what damage I'm doing against actually properly gear'd out opponents, probably mostly golded out gear.

(all non-cp)

I'm pretty sure I hit considerably higher than that in no cp (@gibous can you confirm?), not positive though. And that's with a higher crit chance too. But it's also hard to tell because there are a lot of undergeared players in AS. I think you should consider trying out DW.

@LeifErickson - I didn't closely monitor numbers, but I think we were a bit above the damage indicated by Tay. The highest frag I had on no cp was 14.5k. Average high range of about 9-10k crits, but those were empowered procs. I remember seeing 7k curses so that seems on par, but dawnbreaker was hitting really hard, higher than 6.2k for sure. More than raw dmg though I think our success in no cp came from the fact we still had 50% crit whereas most others were down to 20-30%.

LeifErickson

EdTerra wrote: »

lol I feel so weak with my melee magblade now

well good job ^^

Melee mageblade non bomber is probably the worst "viable" (lol I couldn't think of a better word) spec in the game right now.

Minalan

LeifErickson wrote: »

EdTerra wrote: »

lol I feel so weak with my melee magblade now

well good job ^^

Melee mageblade non bomber is probably the worst "viable" (lol I couldn't think of a better word) spec in the game right now.

Not even sap tanks, or is that technically a bomb build because of the AOE?

arkansas_ESO

Minalan wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

EdTerra wrote: »

lol I feel so weak with my melee magblade now

well good job ^^

Melee mageblade non bomber is probably the worst "viable" (lol I couldn't think of a better word) spec in the game right now.

Not even sap tanks, or is that technically a bomb build because of the AOE?

When people think "melee mageblade" they think of the pre-Dark Brotherhood builds that were melee-range casters with high burst and high mobility. Something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjFtf-klt98

I wouldn't say sap tanks are melee mageblades or bomb builds, they're in a category of their own

ssewallb14_ESO

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

EdTerra wrote: »

lol I feel so weak with my melee magblade now

well good job ^^

Melee mageblade non bomber is probably the worst "viable" (lol I couldn't think of a better word) spec in the game right now.

Not even sap tanks, or is that technically a bomb build because of the AOE?

When people think "melee mageblade" they think of the pre-Dark Brotherhood builds that were melee-range casters with high burst and high mobility. Something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjFtf-klt98

I wouldn't say sap tanks are melee mageblades or bomb builds, they're in a category of their own

ZoS more or less deleted this playstyle.

NightSquirrel

Once you have a sharpened Maelstrom destro staff dual wield sorc becomes a "thing you used to do." That's just my opinion though.