Morrowind...and ESO+

corrosivechains · February 2017

Zimnel wrote: »

To everyone complaining about paying for the expansion, I have an only question:
Did Blizzard gave for free any of their expansions just because "people pays every month to play"? No.

Shoe on the other foot, did Blizzard ever offer "DLCs" which you could pay for independently that were purchasable in their cash shop? No.

Now, since you want to make a comparison, compare this "chapter" to any WoW expansion and then justify it as equivalent. We'll wait.

Elsonso · February 2017

xeNNNNN wrote: »

3) You see this as perfectly fine? The price of the expansion is absurd, it offs almost 3x times less than most major MMO's out there when they release expansions. £20 for upgrade £40 for collectors maybe. But £64 for collectors and £40 for an upgrade? 1 region? Seriously? No thats not "fine" thats a price hike.

I am comparing Morrowind to Orsinium and Far Harbor. Far Harbor was the biggest DLC land that BGS had ever done, added 20 hours, and cost $25. Orsinium is the largest released DLC for ESO, adds 20 hours, and sells for 3000 crowns ($30). Morrowind will add 30 hours and sells for $40, which is equivalent to 5500 crowns (mentioned for comparison purposes).

Of course, Morrowind includes battlegrounds, a trial, and the new class, in addition to the zone. The zone includes housing, and needs to include standard zone features, like delves and public dungeons, side quests, and other stuff that they have not mentioned. They need to mention. Sooner, rather than later.

Based on this, I pre-ordered.

As I have said before, ZOS needs to get this right. Not just in their mind, but in the mind of the players. They might shoot for average, to cut development costs, and use marketing spin to fill the gap. In their mind, this would be getting it right. Marketing hype is a poor filler, for me, and probably many of us.

Gold Coast was nice, but not as good as Hew's Bane, which was not as good as Wrothgar. Vvardenfell needs to be noticeably better than Wrothgar.

MadLarkin · February 2017

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

A valid Point @ZOS_DaryaK

Just out of interest, is there likely to be comments from the powers that be about this "divisive" issue?

Probably not. Remember what they did with Crown Crates? Ignored the majority of the feedback and then when they launched, wrote a blog post entitled "ESO Welcomes Crown Crates."

Edit: The disconnect between ZOS (specifically marketing and PR) and the player base is becoming palpable, and the fact that they'll keep skipping along without addressing any of our concerns (I mean REALLY addressing them) is infuriating.

old_mufasa · February 2017

MadLarkin wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

A valid Point @ZOS_DaryaK

Just out of interest, is there likely to be comments from the powers that be about this "divisive" issue?

Probably not. Remember what they did with Crown Crates? Ignored the majority of the feedback and then when they launched, wrote a blog post entitled "ESO Welcomes Crown Crates."

Edit: The disconnect between ZOS (specifically marketing and PR) and the player base is becoming palpable, and the fact that they'll keep skipping along without addressing any of our concerns (I mean REALLY addressing them) is infuriating.

Ya this is big thing.. they are saying nothing at all about he promised 4 dlc a year for plus and now it will be 10-12 months before we get one of those DLC's vs every 12 weeks... on top of the fact we are only getting 2 this year with no other compensation....

Hell id be happy if they did something like.. buying morrowind with ESO plus adds a wardrobe system... at least then its honoring there advertisement of eso plus.

eserras7b16_ESO · February 2017

This is a bad move from them. It's too expensive to play the game. ESO+ is needed by most people for this infinite crafting bag, then it also offers other benefits. Also, they used our money (subscribers money) that was supposed to go on to crafting the DLC's each 1/4 of a year, and what they did was use most of it (80% i assume) on creating content wich then sold to us for 40USD.

That's what I call scam. They milked from us and they don't really care.

All this content we're seeing released soon in form of this "Chapter" is the content wich should've been going to our hands through bigger DLC's. If they had to bring it all at once for some reason, that would've been fine aswel, but charging for it? Some of us are not idiots, even then i really feel like one after knowing how many money i've spent the last years supporting this kind of company.

Disgusting.

Eldorhaan · February 2017

Zimnel wrote: »

To everyone complaining about paying for the expansion, I have an only question:
Did Blizzard gave for free any of their expansions just because "people pays every month to play"? No.

This makes me laugh each time, but sorry with WOW it was stated at the beginning, all players knows what was involve in it and will have to pay a sub and pay every expansion. It's not the same with ESO+ sub and at the beginning it was not presented as there will be chapter and DLC, it was ALL future content.

This is not the same marketting approach and not comparable.

Floyd_Stash · February 2017

I felt like eso was being rather greedy at launch with certain tricks already.
Now i'm just sure of it.

As a gaming customer, longterm customer of Elder scrolls lore and Fallout lore series, ESO now officially marks a dark
place in my heart which i will hope one day to just forget about.

I will not sit by idle and accept that you use the name of my most favorite game and just try to rip money for something that doesn't even get close to the original experiences. You could have made a comeback but instead you had to slam a huge pricecard on it.

Elder scrolls online.. you hurt my feelings.
i say farewell.

Enteum · February 2017

This is all a bit messy. But, I had no problems with paying for expacs through WoW/Blizzard. But, I will say this. Crowns basically is real money. Subs should get to pay for the expac through crowns at least!

probablyafk · February 2017

Zimnel wrote: »

To everyone complaining about paying for the expansion, I have an only question:
Did Blizzard gave for free any of their expansions just because "people pays every month to play"? No.

Eso has at this time one of the best premium subs, and I've been in some games that ask your blood to be in touch with endgame. Go ask any Skyforge player how much did they pay in order to raid. They would laugh at a 40 dollar complain.

Morrowind won't be a Dlc, they said it's a big expansion. It's not like I'm a Zos fanboy or something, it's the fact the complain seems to me out of place or too big compared with what they ask for it. 40 usd is what you pay for two costumes in other games, for a single costume set in other places, for a "pack" containing rng boxes... C'mon XD

This has been posted before a few times but just to point out why your argument is completely factually incorrect:

Morrowind content:

1 new player class
1 new zone
1 new trial
2 new PvP arenas (new mode of PvP play)

Legion content:

1 new player class
5 new zones
2 (+1) new raids
2 new PvP arenas
PvP overhaul (including entire new abilities just for PvP)
Class revamp for all existing classes
10 new dungeons
World Quest chain
New Mythic+ dungeon difficulties for all content
New Story Content Specific Zone
Artifact Weapons for each class (new ways to play)
Class Halls (including massive amounts of quests)
New Transmog system, Profession Revamp, Animations and more ...

Morrowind might still have some surprise content but I'm pretty sure it's not going to catch up to 1/3rd the content that was released in Legion. And the costs are extremely comparable.

probablyafk · February 2017

lordrichter wrote:

As I have said before, ZOS needs to get this right. Not just in their mind, but in the mind of the players. They might shoot for average, to cut development costs, and use marketing spin to fill the gap. In their mind, this would be getting it right. Marketing hype is a poor filler, for me, and probably many of us.

Gold Coast was nice, but not as good as Hew's Bane, which was not as good as Wrothgar. Vvardenfell needs to be noticeably better than Wrothgar.

I agree with this ten times over. A paid for expansion is not a bad idea. In fact, as a subscriber, I think it's great. Money doesn't bother me but the amount of content does.

I hope they're just disorganised and there's an extra trial on top of the one announce, plus 3-4 dungeons coming, and Vvardenfell is huge and amazing (3 times Orsinium would be small but ok if the qualities there) and we get a whole slew of other smaller features and changes that will allow replay value. Without that all these people who are complaining are not going to shut up. They'll keep raging or they'll go away and the games gonna get lonely.

Luciferazazell · February 2017

An even bigger thing to ponder about is why is there even pre orders on digital copies . Pre orders are intended to assure a customer a product on release date lol Is there a limited supply of digital downloads i tell you these companies are something else

Soafee · February 2017

Why is it so difficult for you guys to pay for a game that you enjoy? I've never seen such whining about something like this before. Games have been selling expansion packs since the dawn of gaming and you complain about it yet you play this game probably 20+ hours a week. It's cheaper than going to the movies and you're entertained. Why not support the game?

Marktoneth3 · February 2017

But I will pay for this

Soafee · February 2017

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

lmao why do ESO+ members who pay a few bucks a month think they're entitled to the world?

Get in line and pay the $40 for the expansion

Because they promised that any additional DLC would be for free. Now, you can just rename it "expansion" to get away with charging more.

it's not DLC. It's a whole new expansion. New class, player housing, huge map, new stuff, near gear, new everything. It's a whole new chapter.

Ojustaboo · February 2017

Soafee wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

lmao why do ESO+ members who pay a few bucks a month think they're entitled to the world?

Get in line and pay the $40 for the expansion

Because they promised that any additional DLC would be for free. Now, you can just rename it "expansion" to get away with charging more.

it's not DLC. It's a whole new expansion. New class, player housing, huge map, new stuff, near gear, new everything. It's a whole new chapter.

Well housing has zero to do with the expansion.

I am looking forward to Morrowind, but it remains to see how huge it turns out to be. 10 hrs more content that Orsinium.

Orsinium had what they called a colossal new zone, new single player challenge (Maelstrom Arena), new quests, new dungeons, new world bosses, new gear.

My point being people would probably be saying exactly the same thing (it's obviously an expansion not dlc) about Orsinium if ZoS had released that as an expansion rather than DLC.

Time will tell if Morrowind is really that huge compared to Orsinium, and if so, then yes it deserves the expansion title, but until we see what we get, we don't know this. And by the time it releases, those that choose to sub to help support the game will have paid for ESO Plus for an entire year and will have got zero dlc that wasn't also available free of charge to non subscribers, hence I do understand their complaints.

Sure they could (like I have done) just decide to stop subbing, but most are passionate about this game, want to continue subbing to support the game, but at the same time want value for money. And many feel a little cheated having to pay for this after a year with no dlc content (again I'm talking about dlc that is for sale in the store to non subscribers).

Many subscribers have no interest in the xp and gold boost, many don't have any interest in the crowns either, for them, they need to justify their support.

If they stopped subbing, they could buy Morrowind, buy all DLC using crowns in crown sales (but they probably have them from their sub anyway) and still be a LOT more financially better off each year than they would if they subbed, hence for this reason (and the year without content) I don't disagree with them complaining that the expansion should be included for them.

I worked out (as I own all the existing DLC) I would be £70+ better off per year by not subbing and buying a yearly expansion and crowns to purchase dlc. Which makes more sense, them to loose £70+ each year, or them to give the expansion to subscribers to keep them happy?

Obviously if most people continue to sub and also buy the expansion it makes more sense for them to go that route, but if more and more people decide the sub isn't worth it, then they could be shooting themselves in the foot. If people weren't passionate, they would just stop subbing and keep quiet, but most want to continue to sub, to continue to support this game, hence are voicing their opinions hoping for a change of heart by Zos.

Eldorhaan · February 2017

Soafee wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

lmao why do ESO+ members who pay a few bucks a month think they're entitled to the world?

Get in line and pay the $40 for the expansion

Because they promised that any additional DLC would be for free. Now, you can just rename it "expansion" to get away with charging more.

it's not DLC. It's a whole new expansion. New class, player housing, huge map, new stuff, near gear, new everything. It's a whole new chapter.

It's like an advert for empty games, there will be A + B + C and... much more, so you know after C there will be nothing more. Stop selling us emptiness, New class (Just One and supposed to be present from the release https://youtu.be/cWaq6Pc8drM?t=109) Player Housing (No it will be release in February and is part of another DLC), Huge map (You have no clue about that, this is really subjective), new Stuff/Gear (Same term, on each DLC they are present too), new everything (see "and much more" comment")

Darkstorne · February 2017

Soafee wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

lmao why do ESO+ members who pay a few bucks a month think they're entitled to the world?

Get in line and pay the $40 for the expansion

Because they promised that any additional DLC would be for free. Now, you can just rename it "expansion" to get away with charging more.

it's not DLC. It's a whole new expansion. New class, player housing, huge map, new stuff, near gear, new everything. It's a whole new chapter.

How brown can someone's nose get? If they'd made this distinction clear when they made the promise of all DLC being free forever for subscribers, and four times a year, specifically stating that it wouldn't cover large expansions which will be unveiled in the future, then you could defend this practice. But to pretend an expansion is completely different to DLC (when by any understanding of the terms they are IDENTICAL until a dev states otherwise, in regards to their own game specifically) just makes you look like a company shill.

I WILL be buying Morrowind. I'll be happy to do so. But ZOS definitely owe subscribers an apology, and more importantly they need to make subscribing appealing again. Between this expansion not being free, the promise of four DLC per year being abandoned, and the devaluation of Crown Coins (most mounts now being found in Crates and the latest to be released on the store costing 4500 Crowns), subscribing is looking like a pretty crappy deal.

Jade1986 · February 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

and how much will that be? still 40 euro? If so that is incredibly expensive for an expansion. No mmo so far has charged that much for an expansion.

Jade1986 · February 2017

Dutchrebel wrote: »

My opinion is the warden class and BG should be added for free to the vanilla game .so everybody can enjoy that and should have been in the game from the beginning in the first place !.
if this was the case the morrowind map itself would have been a dlc aswell .
Dont use excuses oh you got a trial you got blablabla , remember thief's guild that came with MoL this is accesable with eso+.
So basicly your paying 40$ for some cosmetic *** and a map that probarly is gonne be 50% of the size and the rest of it mountains to fill up the space.
and 30+ hours yeah right .just some casual Mobs wich you can kill in 2 blows Exiting !
So in my eyes Zenimax is milking the cow on the morrowind name .

p.s its funny to see that you can buy the base game for under 10$ so tell me why i should pay 40$ for a "Expansion"
doesnt make any sense

This is exactly my take on it. You can buy the base game for 10 € but the expansion will be 40?! And how much is the "upgrade" going to be for people who already own the Imperial Edition of the game from day one? Is it stil going to be 40? I have never heard of an mmo charging THAT much for an expansion. Not WoW, not SWTOR, not FF14. They are all usually approx 20 € - 25 € tops. This price is just ridiculous. And yeah the warden should be a base game addition, not a pay to own addition.

FlaviusVoyage · February 2017

Soafee wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

lmao why do ESO+ members who pay a few bucks a month think they're entitled to the world?

Get in line and pay the $40 for the expansion

Because they promised that any additional DLC would be for free. Now, you can just rename it "expansion" to get away with charging more.

it's not DLC. It's a whole new expansion. New class, player housing, huge map, new stuff, near gear, new everything. It's a whole new chapter.

Morrowind content:
1 new player class
1 new zone
1 new trial
2 new PvP arenas

Oh wow, that's "new everything", a really whole new chapter. Player housing? It's free for everyone. And guess what: It is not ever part of Morrowind!

Elsonso · February 2017

Luciferazazell wrote: »

An even bigger thing to ponder about is why is there even pre orders on digital copies . Pre orders are intended to assure a customer a product on release date lol Is there a limited supply of digital downloads i tell you these companies are something else

Pre-orders are designed to bring in revenue while the hype is fresh.

Eldorhaan wrote: »

It's like an advert for empty games, there will be A + B + C and... much more, so you know after C there will be nothing more. Stop selling us emptiness, New class (Just One and supposed to be present from the release https://youtu.be/cWaq6Pc8drM?t=109) Player Housing (No it will be release in February and is part of another DLC), Huge map (You have no clue about that, this is really subjective), new Stuff/Gear (Same term, on each DLC they are present too), new everything (see "and much more" comment")

Actually, yes player housing. Morrowind will have housing, unlike the DLC zones.

The map used in TES 3 seemed huge, but was a lot smaller than people realized because of the limited line of sight. As a modder, this was obvious. It would be interesting to know if they scaled UP or DOWN when they moved the map to ESO.

While they have not mentioned it, data mining suggests Delves, possibly public dungeons. The 'and more' is T.B.D., still. It should not be. They need to drop the secrecy and tell us what they are holding for some special PR event in the future.

typo

moiraleafcull · February 2017

Oh...and lets not forget...
If u stop subbing...you still have access to the mats in your crafting bag, you just cant put new ones in.
Really? Logged into an old alt account yesterday and all the mats were dumped into characters pack...along with a pleasant little message saying mats now in pack. Zero...and I mean ZERO reason to believe anything published by this company will actually be what I pay for based on what is described in the offer.

[Deleted User] · February 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

old_mufasa · February 2017

Soafee wrote: »

Why is it so difficult for you guys to pay for a game that you enjoy? I've never seen such whining about something like this before. Games have been selling expansion packs since the dawn of gaming and you complain about it yet you play this game probably 20+ hours a week. It's cheaper than going to the movies and you're entertained. Why not support the game?

What the.... ESO plus are paying up to $180 a year.. how much are you paying a year as a non eso plus member?

We were made promises that we expect to be honored for $180 a year.. we gave the money in advance with the understanding that all DLC and expansions would be honored under the $180 we spend a year to play and support the game.

Compared to people that just buy the dlc from the crown store we have supported the game more then anyone. All we are asking is them honor there agreement with us and stop the bait and switch by relabeling it chapters to get around the agreement they made to us.

I_killed_Vivec · February 2017

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

moiraleafcull wrote: »

Oh...and lets not forget...
If u stop subbing...you still have access to the mats in your crafting bag, you just cant put new ones in.
Really? Logged into an old alt account yesterday and all the mats were dumped into characters pack...along with a pleasant little message saying mats now in pack. Zero...and I mean ZERO reason to believe anything published by this company will actually be what I pay for based on what is described in the offer.

Oh if they've changed that then it's a bit sneaky. Must have predicted the cancellations their new approach would lead to and so took action to force people to retain sub. Hmm

Punishing unsubs in that way only encourages me to unsub...

Thank you ZoS, your greed will save me a bundle of money.

Elsonso · February 2017

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

moiraleafcull wrote: »

Oh...and lets not forget...
If u stop subbing...you still have access to the mats in your crafting bag, you just cant put new ones in.
Really? Logged into an old alt account yesterday and all the mats were dumped into characters pack...along with a pleasant little message saying mats now in pack. Zero...and I mean ZERO reason to believe anything published by this company will actually be what I pay for based on what is described in the offer.

Oh if they've changed that then it's a bit sneaky. Must have predicted the cancellations their new approach would lead to and so took action to force people to retain sub. Hmm

Punishing unsubs in that way only encourages me to unsub...

Thank you ZoS, your greed will save me a bundle of money.

One data point might make an Internet Truth, but it might not be accurate. I'm waiting for a round of confirmations from all the people unsubbing this month. I know at least one of them was down to the last days. If they are true to their word, they can add a data point.

[Deleted User] · February 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

I_killed_Vivec · February 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

moiraleafcull wrote: »

Oh...and lets not forget...
If u stop subbing...you still have access to the mats in your crafting bag, you just cant put new ones in.
Really? Logged into an old alt account yesterday and all the mats were dumped into characters pack...along with a pleasant little message saying mats now in pack. Zero...and I mean ZERO reason to believe anything published by this company will actually be what I pay for based on what is described in the offer.

Oh if they've changed that then it's a bit sneaky. Must have predicted the cancellations their new approach would lead to and so took action to force people to retain sub. Hmm

Punishing unsubs in that way only encourages me to unsub...

Thank you ZoS, your greed will save me a bundle of money.

One data point might make an Internet Truth, but it might not be accurate. I'm waiting for a round of confirmations from all the people unsubbing this month. I know at least one of them was down to the last days. If they are true to their word, they can add a data point.

My own sub won't run out for two months, by then we'll know. But I've already taken advantage of the 5500 crowns for the first 4 DLC.

Losing the crafter's bag would be harsh, but I'll have a few months to get used to it...

Probably the most important part of all of this is that even if they bring out a new DLC 3 months after Morrowind (which I doubt) and I resub immediately, ZoS will have traded at least 6 months of my subs for the cost of one expansion... I will be saving money, which means ZoS will be losing it.

Now they might get away with it this year, because so many people will have a deep emotional attachment to Morrowind (I know I do), but will they be able to repeat this in future years?

Once people start unsubbing (even for 6 months a year, say) how many are going to be in a rush to resub? It seems that they are consciously pushing people away from playing every day, to a scenario where they get new DLC, play the game for a week, drop it until the next DLC comes out. And who is going to sub for that?

corrosivechains · February 2017

So, I went and read over the Orsinium Launch Details page: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/10/05/orsinium-launch-details-and-new-video

Anyone else recognizing the writing style? I've seen a lot of accounts crawling out of the woodwork to defend this that still have their _ESO tag, zero stars or 1 star, or very generic names, with very similar writing styles using very similar buzzwords, promising a lot about Morrowind while saying very little.

Soafee wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

lmao why do ESO+ members who pay a few bucks a month think they're entitled to the world?

Get in line and pay the $40 for the expansion

Because they promised that any additional DLC would be for free. Now, you can just rename it "expansion" to get away with charging more.

it's not DLC. It's a whole new expansion. New class, player housing, huge map, new stuff, near gear, new everything. It's a whole new chapter.

This is just the latest example.

FlaviusVoyage · February 2017

moiraleafcull wrote: »

Oh...and lets not forget...
If u stop subbing...you still have access to the mats in your crafting bag, you just cant put new ones in.
Really? Logged into an old alt account yesterday and all the mats were dumped into characters pack...along with a pleasant little message saying mats now in pack. Zero...and I mean ZERO reason to believe anything published by this company will actually be what I pay for based on what is described in the offer.

Look at the language:

"If your ESO Plus membership expires, you will still be able to access your supplies from within the Craft Bag, but you will not be able to add any more materials to it."

That means the Craft Bag should still be there, but you cannot add any items to it.

Not honoring that would be plain wrong!