Morrowind...and ESO+

Ojustaboo

silvereyes wrote: »

I can kind of sympathize that after 4 months of no new zones or dungeons, and then being told that there will be no more for the next 6 months unless you pay extra, it could feel like a disappointment.

I can also sympathize with anyone that subbed for a longer period of time with the expectation of more DLCs. Instead, you got big base game changes and the Chapters change. However, that's the risk you run when you sub for longer periods to save a few bucks per month. It sucks, but it was your choice.

What I take issue with is when people say that ZOS didn't give them what they said they would. That they pulled a bait-and-switch. They have done nothing of the kind.

Nothing on the marketing materials for ESO+ indicates an upcoming DLC schedule. That Matt Firor made a goal of 4 DLC per year, back in 2015, is not a marketing claim, but a roadmap. Software project roadmaps get delayed and reworked all the time.

Ojustaboo wrote: »

But that doesn't mean I don't have the right to complain that I didn't get what they told me I would be getting.

You have already gotten exactly what they said you would get. Between 6 and 3 months ago, you got SotH, which was already announced when you subbed. You got access to that and all past DLC, the craft bag and other perks, as well as 4,500 crowns.

One Tamriel had already been released as a free update when you subbed 3 months ago, and you knew it wasn't a DLC. And since then, you've had 3 months of access to all past DLC, all other sub perks, as well as 4,500 more crowns.

You've gotten exactly what was advertised.

Hehe we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I've admitted i didn't do my homework properly and was naive, but as I said previously, I justified the sub as I thought I would be getting SOME NEW content that was only available to non subscribers in the store (I already bought all the previous dlc) .

And I made that assumption based on both what I saw ESO say on the quakecon vid, and the fact that all of the subscribers in my guild were under exactly the same impression. I have seen no announcement, received no email saying the terms of ESO+ has changed and from what my fellow guild members who subscribe also thought, it appears they didn't either.

The only thing I've seen from Zos was on a thread today (might be this one can't remember) where someone posted a message from Zos that they posted on twitter, something I don't use.

If a company changes what they are giving people, it shouldn't be in the small print, it shouldn't be replying to someone on Twitter, it should be made obvious to all subscribers.

In England, when a TV company, a phone company, an electric company etc changes what they are offering you for your monthly payments, you get a proper English (not lawyer speak) letter or email explaining this and as the terms have changed, offering us the choice to cancel.

They don't simply not mention it and let us use hindsight to see that with the announcement of 1T etc, it was probably going to be obvious no dlc would be coming.

What's obvious to you, might not be obvious to me, likewise the opposite also applies.

So, to me, no, I didn't get what was advertised at all.

I don't care how in depth they went into 1T etc, they went into depth about housing but were still working on Morrowind at the same time (but only just announced it) , hence could just as easily been working on some sort of dlc (not saying it had to be new content) at the same time as they worked on 1T.

I don't spend my whole life trawling through these forums, I read some patchnotes, and moan on here when I have something to complain about. The rest of the time I'm happily playing

I haven't said they did a bait and switch, I'm simply saying I expected some exclusive ( crown bought for non sub players) dlc at some point and as I have now realised that a year will have passed come Morrowind and we will have got none, well I 100% understand the complaints.

Surely it's better for people to complain and let Zos know why they are unhappy than simply say nothing and just unsub.

jimshrum3b14_ESO

sevomd69 wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

And for those 6 months you got access to all current content as advertised.

I did. I also got access to a crafting bag, xp/gold boost, costume dying, all as advertised. However it was also 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLCs a year and that as an ESO+ subscriber I would have access to them for free. However that never materialised.

Where was it 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLC's a year?... I've only seen a tweet about it, but nothing else..

Where was it 'advertised' that there would be an expansions that ESO+ members would have to pay for?????????

Ojustaboo

sevomd69 wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

And for those 6 months you got access to all current content as advertised.

I did. I also got access to a crafting bag, xp/gold boost, costume dying, all as advertised. However it was also 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLCs a year and that as an ESO+ subscriber I would have access to them for free. However that never materialised.

Where was it 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLC's a year?... I've only seen a tweet about it, but nothing else..

read my post 795, link below

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3753453/#Comment_3753453

sevomd69

jimshrum3b14_ESO wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

And for those 6 months you got access to all current content as advertised.

I did. I also got access to a crafting bag, xp/gold boost, costume dying, all as advertised. However it was also 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLCs a year and that as an ESO+ subscriber I would have access to them for free. However that never materialised.

Where was it 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLC's a year?... I've only seen a tweet about it, but nothing else..

Where was it 'advertised' that there would be an expansions that ESO+ members would have to pay for?????????

What does that have to do with the question I asked?

aussie500

You pay real money for Morrowind, just like any other game, when they make the DLC for it, ESO+ members would get that for free.

ookami007

"We have a new ally in the Dark Side... ZeniMax."

"I have seen their pre-release on the new "Chapter" my master. They will make an excellent ally."

corrosivechains

aussie500 wrote: »

You pay real money for Morrowind, just like any other game, when they make the DLC for it, ESO+ members would get that for free.

you pay real money for subs. You pay real money for crowns. And if they release DLC for morrowind, any ESO+ member who hasn't purchased it(as has been pointed out as an option by people defending ZoS's decision) they absolutely will not get that DLC, because it's locked behind a "chapter".

TaintedKurse

mb10 wrote: »

lmao why do ESO+ members who pay a few bucks a month think they're entitled to the world?

Get in line and pay the $40 for the expansion

Its because, as long as were talking about ESO+, that's what we are suppose to be paying for. Calling it an "expansion pack" instead of a DLC is just re-branding the same thing. There purposefully being manipulative and misleading by saying "ohh its not DLC, its an expansion." Its additional content. It would be just be absurd. ESO+ subscribers already pay ZOS hundreds of dollars a year. Its because, you shouldn't treat your loyal paying customers like crap just because, you know you can squeeze a few more bucks from them for something they want. This DLC is bringing nothing more than wrothgar. There just hyping it up more because Morrowind is a more popular location. This is the first zone i'm actually excited about exploring and there telling us its going to be locked behind another premium paywall to even have access to it?? Also its going to cost me about as much as the initial retail price of the imperial edition of the game?? Also, its just one zone?? This zone better be a god damn masterpiece for 40-80$. Your doubling the price of your content and basically telling ESO+ players that they really aren't paying for anything that's worthwhile. Everything that has been added to the game since launch are things that have been included in every elder scrolls to date. If you have been paying the sub you essentially got 0 bang for your buck, and now they just want more.

Netherscorn

Eve Online has been providing updates for it's entire lifespan free of charge. Not to mention, you don't have to buy a retail copy before playing; you just subscribe, download, and that's it.

There ARE games and companies that run an honest show. Zeni just aren't one of them AND they really just don't care what people think...which, as an entertainment content provider, is morally indefensible.

sevomd69

Netherscorn wrote: »

Eve Online has been providing updates for it's entire lifespan free of charge. Not to mention, you don't have to buy a retail copy before playing; you just subscribe, download, and that's it.

There ARE games and companies that run an honest show. Zeni just aren't one of them AND they really just don't care what people think...which, as an entertainment content provider, is morally indefensible.

Hyperbole much? "Morally"... sheesh...

Pwnyridah

I'm a subscriber, totally ok with buying an expansion that has lots of new content. ESO plus isn't a burden for me and comes with other benefits I'm willing to pay for.

Frondale

corrosivechains wrote: »

aussie500 wrote: »

You pay real money for Morrowind, just like any other game, when they make the DLC for it, ESO+ members would get that for free.

you pay real money for subs. You pay real money for crowns. And if they release DLC for morrowind, any ESO+ member who hasn't purchased it(as has been pointed out as an option by people defending ZoS's decision) they absolutely will not get that DLC, because it's locked behind a "chapter".

At least it is one I actually own now besides the main game that I bought the gold edition of.

All the other DLC's I do not own as I am being ESO plus.

Tandor

Ojustaboo wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

And for those 6 months you got access to all current content as advertised.

I did. I also got access to a crafting bag, xp/gold boost, costume dying, all as advertised. However it was also 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLCs a year and that as an ESO+ subscriber I would have access to them for free. However that never materialised.

Where was it 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLC's a year?... I've only seen a tweet about it, but nothing else..

read my post 795, link below

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3753453/#Comment_3753453

The trouble is that as always with people claiming they were lied to or that promises were broken, that link demonstrates perfectly how "Expect to see..." becomes "ZOS promised...".

sevomd69

Tandor wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

And for those 6 months you got access to all current content as advertised.

I did. I also got access to a crafting bag, xp/gold boost, costume dying, all as advertised. However it was also 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLCs a year and that as an ESO+ subscriber I would have access to them for free. However that never materialised.

Where was it 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLC's a year?... I've only seen a tweet about it, but nothing else..

read my post 795, link below

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3753453/#Comment_3753453

The trouble is that as always with people claiming they were lied to or that promises were broken, that link demonstrates perfectly how "Expect to see..." becomes "ZOS promised...".

Exactly... they assumed something, and their assumptions were wrong... You know what they say when you assume...

Iselin

Fine. Let's get on with it. Reduce ESO+ cost by 20% and I'm good.

TaintedKurse

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Am I right in saying, that the ESO+ players will still get everything - just not the collection edition addons like the bear, horse, gear, etc....

£40.00 for the expansion - after 2 years of ESO Plus Membership.

Edit1: YOU CAN NOT BUY THIS EXPANSION WITH CROWNS!!!! ONLY CASH.

Edit2: Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror
You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective (Disclaimer - not a lawyer)

Edit3: @ZOS_GinaBruno Has stated there will be an update for ESO+ Subscribers tomorrow. We shall see.


That's it, I'm done. Have fun folks but I'm certainly not paying for this.

I think i'm almost with you. Subscriber since launch, and I just feel betrayed. Its the first zone I've actually wanted to explore since getting the sub and its locked behind another damn paywall. Its crazy! I mean I think ill give it a shot but, if the quality of the quests and the overall zone has not significantly improved I think i'm done. I can't justify that purchase unless i'm getting some serious quality adventure. I feel like there just jacking the hell out of the price because it has Morrowind in the title and they know that true TES fans will pay for it. Also the whole pre-order thing just make me nervous.There like a bad omen for failure, and trying to get people to buy something just because it sounds awesome. Also it saddens me to say that if it doesn't deliver for that price tag I think were going to see a huge drop in players just due to the disappointment it will bring. By doing this there fans expectations are gonna skyrocket.

-Also considering I was promised ALL "Future DLC Content," it seems like ZOS was directly lying to subscribers. Whats next? ESO Gold 50$ a month and your left nut for "ALL Expansion Access"? Just so a year down the line you can start selling us "Additional Content" Instead and just keep living in this fantasy world where synonyms are different things? Its a slippery slope.

Chadak

Step 1: Capitalize on dat sweet Morrowind nostalgia money.

Step 2: Call the DLC an expansion. Recategorization makes us technically off the hook to provide it for free. We're TECHNICALLY not lying! Honest!

Step 3: Profit, because at day's end, almost nobody actually cares because dat sweet Morrowind nostalgia is real and the slobbering masses will, in fact, pay for the privilege of accessing it.

sevomd69

Chadak wrote: »

Step 1: Capitalize on dat sweet Morrowind nostalgia money.

Step 2: Call the DLC an expansion. Recategorization makes us technically off the hook to provide it for free. We're TECHNICALLY not lying! Honest!

Step 3: Profit, because at day's end, almost nobody actually cares because dat sweet Morrowind nostalgia is real and the slobbering masses will, in fact, pay for the privilege of accessing it.

What is your problem about the game making a profit? If NO PROFIT = NO GAME...

Chadak

sevomd69 wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Step 1: Capitalize on dat sweet Morrowind nostalgia money.

Step 2: Call the DLC an expansion. Recategorization makes us technically off the hook to provide it for free. We're TECHNICALLY not lying! Honest!

Step 3: Profit, because at day's end, almost nobody actually cares because dat sweet Morrowind nostalgia is real and the slobbering masses will, in fact, pay for the privilege of accessing it.

What is your problem about the game making a profit? If NO PROFIT = NO GAME...

I have no problem with businesses turning a profit. I have lots of problems with unethical practices.

Is what they're doing with Morrowind unethical? I'd say that it snuggles the line as intimately as possible, with its intentions as plain as ten foot tall flaming letters in a black sky.

Believe it or not, turning a profit does not actually require being shady!

I know. Hard to believe, but its true.

sevomd69

Chadak wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Step 1: Capitalize on dat sweet Morrowind nostalgia money.

Step 2: Call the DLC an expansion. Recategorization makes us technically off the hook to provide it for free. We're TECHNICALLY not lying! Honest!

Step 3: Profit, because at day's end, almost nobody actually cares because dat sweet Morrowind nostalgia is real and the slobbering masses will, in fact, pay for the privilege of accessing it.

What is your problem about the game making a profit? If NO PROFIT = NO GAME...

I have no problem with businesses turning a profit. I have lots of problems with unethical practices.

Is what they're doing with Morrowind unethical? I'd say that it snuggles the line as intimately as possible, with its intentions as plain as ten foot tall flaming letters in a black sky.

Believe it or not, turning a profit does not actually require being shady!

I know. Hard to believe, but its true.

I guess we have to agree to disagree, because I don't consider anything that they are doing "shady" or "unethical"... They have laid out the parameters of playing in their game in their ToS and we agreed to foresaid parameters when we started to play... as well as giving us a 5 month heads up to acclimate to the changes...

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO

MasterSpatula wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

It's an "Expansion Pack." NOT a DLC.

I payed and continue to pay for all future content, as was promised.

I can afford forty bucks, and I can afford it easily. But I've already paid for it. "All future content" was the promise made at the B2P transition.

I have, time and again, defended ZOS on this forum against the accusation of "deceptive business practice." (At least I did before Crown Crates.) More the fool, I, for a contract has been broken, and an unambiguously deceptive business practice is upon us.

[Edit to remove mention of removed content]

Have any of you ever played MMOs before?
Do you not recall the days of EverQuest paying 14.99 a month and then paying for expacs as they were released?

Pfff....millenials

If you love the game much, then start supporting its costs.

Expacs should have a cost.

Expect to see a named dlc pack of some kind quarterly.

So every 12 weeks or so you will see something named with the cool concept, content, new systems, things like that.

The way it works is if you are an ESO+ member you get all the dlc content included as part of eso+ for as long as you are a subscriber.

You can of course purchase it from the store if you want to

Jesus , how old are you , talking like this is some of kind a big deal violation..pathetic

corrosivechains

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

It's an "Expansion Pack." NOT a DLC.

I payed and continue to pay for all future content, as was promised.

I can afford forty bucks, and I can afford it easily. But I've already paid for it. "All future content" was the promise made at the B2P transition.

I have, time and again, defended ZOS on this forum against the accusation of "deceptive business practice." (At least I did before Crown Crates.) More the fool, I, for a contract has been broken, and an unambiguously deceptive business practice is upon us.

[Edit to remove mention of removed content]

Have any of you ever played MMOs before?
Do you not recall the days of EverQuest paying 14.99 a month and then paying for expacs as they were released?

Pfff....millenials

If you love the game much, then start supporting its costs.

Expacs should have a cost.

Too bad this isn't an expac. It's a "chapter"

silvereyes

I don't get where the claims of ESO+ giving access to "all future DLC" keep coming from either. All the published marketing materials are very clear that your sub is just for the duration of your membership, and gives access to only current DLC purchasable in the Crown Store. There's never a guarantee of future content.

Judging from the outcry on the forums here, ZOS probably needed to do more communicating about their roadmap plans earlier than they did. And the current roadmap of no new ESO+ DLC for a year is definitely frustrating.

But the details of what you get with a sub never included "future" DLC of any kind. Paying now does not entitle you to DLC in the future.

It's not shady or underhanded. They are up front about it, and if you don't like it, you can unsubscribe.

From Your Guide to ESO Plus:

So, what do you get as an ESO Plus member? Let’s go over the benefits:

• An allotment of crowns to spend in the new in-game Crown Store based on your membership period (more below)
• Access to all of ESO’s downloadable content (or DLC) game packs for the duration of your membership
• A 10% bonus to XP and gold gain, crafting research, and inspiration

From the ESO Plus store page:

PRODUCT DETAILS
PC/Mac only.

• Access to all DLC Game Packs available in the Crown Store as long as ESO Plus™ membership is current.
• 1500 Crowns per 30 day membership, all Crowns given at time of payment.
• +10% Upgrade to Character Progression.
• Please see "Additional Requirements" tab below and Terms of Service.

[snip]

ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS
.... The Elder Scrolls® Online service may be discontinued, and content modified, disabled, suspended or removed, at any time....

esotoon

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

If you love the game much, then start supporting its costs.

Damn, if only us *subscribers* who have an issue with this only paid too support the game, instead of...errrr...paying to support the game?

Expect to see a named dlc pack of some kind quarterly.

We did. It didn't arrive.

Why should we expect the newly revised promise of 3 DLCs a year to now be kept?

sevomd69

esotoon wrote: »

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

If you love the game much, then start supporting its costs.

Damn, if only us *subscribers* who have an issue with this only paid too support the game, instead of...errrr...paying to support the game?

Expect to see a named dlc pack of some kind quarterly.

We did. It didn't arrive.

Why should we expect the newly revised promise of 3 DLCs a year to now be kept?

Well you actually shouldn't expect it... so now its up to you to continue subbing or not subbing or playing or not playing... I for one know that everything in life is fluid and things change... so if I am not comfortable with that possibility I won't be using that service or product...

esotoon

sevomd69 wrote: »

Well you actually shouldn't expect it... so now its up to you to continue subbing or not subbing or playing or not playing... I for one know that everything in life is fluid and things change... so if I am not comfortable with that possibility I won't be using that service or product...

Yes, *now* it is. But anyone subbed before the 31st Jan had no idea of the changes. Bear in mind that people can have a 6 month sub, which the t&cs say you have no right to a refund should you cancel.

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO

esotoon wrote: »

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

If you love the game much, then start supporting its costs.

Damn, if only us *subscribers* who have an issue with this only paid too support the game, instead of...errrr...paying to support the game?

Expect to see a named dlc pack of some kind quarterly.

We did. It didn't arrive.

Why should we expect the newly revised promise of 3 DLCs a year to now be kept?

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm fine with the expansion costing some money over and above the sub.

It is WAY more than just a DLC zone.

sevomd69

esotoon wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Well you actually shouldn't expect it... so now its up to you to continue subbing or not subbing or playing or not playing... I for one know that everything in life is fluid and things change... so if I am not comfortable with that possibility I won't be using that service or product...

Yes, *now* it is. But anyone subbed before the 31st Jan had no idea of the changes. Bear in mind that people can have a 6 month sub, which the t&cs say you have no right to a refund should you cancel.

But they should have had an idea, because ToS says they can change their services whenever they want, so if they had read the ToS they could have weighed the pros and cons of the 6 month sub and they would know that the discount they are getting for the 6 month sub comes with risks clearly stated in the ToS... not anyone else's problem that they failed to read the ToS...

esotoon

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm fine with the expansion costing some money over and above the sub.

Why would that disappoint me? If you are happy that's great!

It is WAY more than just a DLC zone.

It is, however as I wrote elsewhere, now compare it to previous DLCs.

20 hours game play + Gear + Bosses + Dungeons = Orsinium
10 hours game play + Trial = Thieves Guild
New PVP type and maps = IC

So it's the equivalent of 3 DLCs. The only thing we haven't had before is a new class.

Now look at what our Subs have got us access to:

No DLC Q4 2016
No DLC Q1 2017
No DLC Q2 2017

So content wise, when it is released in Q2 2017, it is equivalent what we would have expected to have gotten by that time based on previous DLCs, and the stated 4 DLC a year aim.

Only we didn't get those DLCs. And we are now having to pay extra for the content.

(ETA: This is obviously based on the information we've had so far - it could turn out to be more than this, but as a customer, that's all we have to base our decisions on)

corrosivechains

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

It is WAY more than just a DLC zone.

Please, quantify for us what constitutes as "WAY more". Because from my perspective it's about "on par" with previous DLC's, as already laid out by esotoon. Pretty much the only difference is the addition of a class...that was in beta...that was supposed to be released as a base patch....after they worked out the bugs...

And that seems to be a common trend with ZoS.

Thieves guild was supposed to be a base patch...when they got the bugs worked out with stealing....

And Dark Brotherhood was supposed to be a base patch...when they got the bugs worked out with the justice systems....

Never realized bug fixes constituted "expansions" or "paid DLC"....

But then again I come from a wayward time in multiplayer gaming where everything actually WAS free, but then again you had to use text and your imagination instead of having a company think for you.