Morrowind...and ESO+

Ojustaboo

silvereyes wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

What I do not understand is why they didn't add any perks at all for ESO plus for Morrowind.

How do you know they won't? All we have at this point is a bunch of PR material about the expansion, but there has been no communication about what the base game update will entail or what new systems, if any, there will be in June. The CE pack contents seems to indicate there may be pet skins coming, but that's not been confirmed.

With the amount of uproar there's been over this, I would have thought if they did have something for subscribers, even if they didn't want to tell them what it is yet, they would have at least given them a hint that they haven't been forgotten.

silvereyes

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Don't forget many of us remember subbing for months and months with no promised stuff appearing

That's my entire point. Why sub if you were getting no DLC but don't value the other perks?

If it's to support the game, then that reason still exists. If you don't want to support the game because you don't like ZOS changing their business model, why did you sub right after they changed their business model to B2P?

If you sub because you do value the other perks, those other perks aren't going away. In fact, they keep getting stronger.

And the whole "nobody told us 1T wouldn't have DLC too" argument is just silly. When a company releases detailed PR about the next release and there is no mention of DLC, it should raise questions. And the PTS patch notes for 1T were released in August 2016 with the text "We can’t wait to hear what you think of this update, all of which will be free for all players and is approximately 3.81GB in size. Enjoy!"

If you continue to throw money at a subscription without bothering to inform yourself if the terms have changed, even after multiple public announcements, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

Ojustaboo

silvereyes wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Don't forget many of us remember subbing for months and months with no promised stuff appearing

That's my entire point. Why sub if you were getting no DLC but don't value the other perks?

If it's to support the game, then that reason still exists. If you don't want to support the game because you don't like ZOS changing their business model, why did you sub right after they changed their business model to B2P?

If you sub because you do value the other perks, those other perks aren't going away. In fact, they keep getting stronger.

And the whole "nobody told us 1T wouldn't have DLC too" argument is just silly. When a company releases detailed PR about the next release and there is no mention of DLC, it should raise questions. And the PTS patch notes for 1T were released in August 2016 with the text "We can’t wait to hear what you think of this update, all of which will be free for all players and is approximately 3.81GB in size. Enjoy!"

If you continue to throw money at a subscription without bothering to inform yourself if the terms have changed, even after multiple public announcements, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

I only started subbing 6 months ago, and only for the crafting bag (again only justifying it as I also got access to dlc).

To be honest as I've said in other posts, it was only today that I realised I had had nothing for the past 6 months and would be getting nothing for the next 6. As I said, I didn't expect dlc every 3 months regardless of what they said, but I justified my crafting bag by presuming I would get some.

Now its become apparent that when my sub runs out in a few weeks, I would be getting the crafting bag and nothing else (I want), obviously I cancelled. So yes, I realise I was stupid, hence have just cancelled. But that doesn't mean I don't have the right to complain that I didn't get what they told me I would be getting. £100 a year for access to a crafting bag is pretty hard for me personally to justify, and had I subbed for the next 6 months (did it 3 monthly), that is what it would have amounted to.

Sure I've been naive, doesn't make it right though.

gard

MoTeets wrote: »

They should just make EVERYTHING free, put out gigantic expansions oh sorry DLCs, etc!

Then I will guarantee you the flamers would complain about something because they have to.

@MoTeets

No, what they should have done was release the housing update as paid DLC, available through the crown store. Accessible to subscribers while they are subscribed. And do the same for Morrowind. Everyone pays as they go, whether by sub or buying the content outright.

You might say that I've paid for all of my dlc twice so far. Because although I was able to access it because I paid for the sub, I also purchased it in the crown store. So that just in case I ever wanted to unsub, I'd have access to the content.

But here's a math quiz for you, since you seem to be such a bright fellow:
Peter and Jane both play ESO for two years.
During that time there are three gigantic expansions to the game. YUUUGE expansions.
Peter pays a combined 120 dollars for lifetime access to the expansion content.
Jane pays 24 payments of $15 to access the content.

Which of the two accessed the content for free?
Which method of payment earned the game developer more money?

** edited to add YUUGE for scale

Tandor

old_mufasa wrote: »

Look no matter what its a bait and switch for ESO plus... According to them we are only getting 2 paid DLCs this year as housing is free.. with a small perk for + members (double the decoration limit)

What I do not understand is why they didn't add any perks at all for ESO plus for Morrowind. Something that only plus get if they buy Morrowind... like weapon dye's or wardrobe of transmog system for eso plus.. something extra for Morrowind eso plus buyers... The fact they are adding nothing for ESO plus going against their own all DLC to be included (yes its a DLC.. doesn't matter if they want to call it something else) as well as 4 new dlc a year being shrunk to 2 and a perk for 1 they should of seen this and had some perk for eso plus members.

I'm getting to the point now that I'm contemplating dropping ESO plus and just wait for crowns to go on sell and buy all the dlc.. because in the long run ill be saving money anyhow.

While I don't have a problem with what they've done, and have no intention of unsubscribing, I would certainly accept that it would have gone a long way to assuage concerns over the change from "all DLC included" to "paid for expansion plus fewer DLCs " if there had been some sort of ESO Plus-only benefit somewhere in the Morrowind content.

Of course, were that the case, we'd now be discussing the non-subscribers QQ concerns over such a measure instead - ZOS can never please everyone all of the time, a point all developers learn in Lesson One at MMO School, I'm sure !

gard

Ojustaboo wrote: »

I am happy to buy the expansion, however after all this discussion, it's caused me to look hard at my sub, end result I've just cancelled it. Nothing to do with Morrowind being released as such.

I understand that when we sub, we get a whole package, and that package has a value whether we use bits or not, As my guild leader put it, if you sub to Sky TV and don' t watch Sky1, Sky1 still has monetary value.

However, to use the same analogy, if I subbed as all I was interested in is the discovery channels, Sky 1 might well be part of the package, and I might well watch it from time to time as it's there. But if Sky removed the discovery channels, the package would no longer be worth it to me.

With ESO+, I'm not interested in crowns, sure I bought pets, a wedding dress (don't ask) as the crowns were there, but I would never had purchased them to buy these. Gold is too easy for me to make in game anyway so not interested in gold boost. same with XP boost (infact if you look at some of my old posts, I've often requested the option to disable XP as I felt I levelled far too quickly, although 1T cured that problem), if I did want some I can buy roe from traders and make 50%xp pots as often as I like.

That leaves just two things that made it good value and worth it for ME.

The crafting bag is the main thing I subbed for, however I can't justify the yearly cost solely for that, the promise of 4 downloads a year allowed me to justify it in my head.

But looking at it, unless I've made a mistake, last 6 months of 2016 and first 6 months of 2017, I am getting zero dlc. Or to put it another way, any dlc I do get, so do those that don't sub.

So really, I have been complacent paying every 3 months. not paying attention and the ONLY thing it's given me is access to the craft bag.

And now they've changed it so we only get 3 dlc a year (and one paid for expansion), so even if they did deliver what they say, it's a 1/4 less than it used to be.

I've done the sums.

Paying my sub every 3 months is £100 a year. Plus Morrowind expansion £29.99 making £129.99

I buy a 2nd ESO account, even at full price (and can get a lot cheaper) £20.

I log that character in on my 2nd monitor to use as storage as and when I need it.

I buy the Morrowind expansion, £29.99

They release say 2 new dlc in the next year, say 3000 crowns each

So I need to buy 6000 crowns,

5500 crowns are currently £24 and 750 are just under £5

So I've spent £20 on the game, £30 on expansion, £29 on crowns for DLC. Total cost £79

A saving of £50 this year (well more like £60 - 65 as I'm sure I can get ESO for 50 - 75% off somewhere). Not sure if the current price is the normal crown price or if it's discounted, but I will only buy crowns in sales anyway , and of course next year the saving will be £70 as I won't be buying ESO again

@Ojustaboo

If you play on one of the consoles, can't you make as many accounts as you want? For free. Start your own guild of alts.
I think I remember a console player telling me this. I could be wrong though.

Gargath

Expansion, Chapter, Upgrade, so many diplomatic names, just to avoid the only true: DLC.
One word changes everything and let them grab your money without hesitation.
A big lol for the modern ways of gaining profit and the greed. Because it's a greed.

silvereyes

I can kind of sympathize that after 4 months of no new zones or dungeons, and then being told that there will be no more for the next 6 months unless you pay extra, it could feel like a disappointment.

I can also sympathize with anyone that subbed for a longer period of time with the expectation of more DLCs. Instead, you got big base game changes and the Chapters change. However, that's the risk you run when you sub for longer periods to save a few bucks per month. It sucks, but it was your choice.

What I take issue with is when people say that ZOS didn't give them what they said they would. That they pulled a bait-and-switch. They have done nothing of the kind.

Nothing on the marketing materials for ESO+ indicates an upcoming DLC schedule. That Matt Firor made a goal of 4 DLC per year, back in 2015, is not a marketing claim, but a roadmap. Software project roadmaps get delayed and reworked all the time.

Ojustaboo wrote: »

But that doesn't mean I don't have the right to complain that I didn't get what they told me I would be getting.

You have already gotten exactly what they said you would get. Between 6 and 3 months ago, you got SotH, which was already announced when you subbed. You got access to that and all past DLC, the craft bag and other perks, as well as 4,500 crowns.

One Tamriel had already been released as a free update when you subbed 3 months ago, and you knew it wasn't a DLC. And since then, you've had 3 months of access to all past DLC, all other sub perks, as well as 4,500 more crowns.

You've gotten exactly what was advertised.

Nexus_Emperor

I have thought a lot about it before everything buy the game in Discount 50%
I bought additions in the summer Discount 50%
also i don't care abut ESO Member

FlaviusVoyage

tklawson

It was my understanding that I pay 15+ a month in order to get access to all future content. This seems very ill thought out.

sevomd69

Kronuxx wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

To all those people feeling slighted by ZOS... I would suggest reading the ToS... don't want to read that wall of text well I'll TL;DR it for you... ZOS can change anything anytime they want and they don't have to tell you why or even when they are making aforementioned changes... also YOU the consumer can choose not to play THEIR game whenever you want without telling them why or when you will stop playing...

I see all these QQing people jobbing the system by subbing then unsubbing just to get maximum bang for their buck, why should a company that has to make money to pay their employees and keep a viable product be held to a different standard?

We have every right to say we will quit subbing and to say why we will quit subbing. We are not quitting the game. And now ZoS has a decision to make, too. Accept that they will lose some money. Or make it more appealing for people to subscribe. I'm fine either way. But I will quit subbing for now. And choose to buy or not buy content as it comes out.

How do you know they will lose money? You have charted and documented statistics, perhaps based on a large player base survey to provide enough power to support your claim?

Watch this: Accept that they will make money!

Yeah... I don't get this either... I would think that they make up the lost subs with all the new people coming to play because of Morrowind, and from what it looks like in the polls here, most will not be unsubbing...

sevomd69

esotoon wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

And for those 6 months you got access to all current content as advertised.

I did. I also got access to a crafting bag, xp/gold boost, costume dying, all as advertised. However it was also 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLCs a year and that as an ESO+ subscriber I would have access to them for free. However that never materialised.

Where was it 'advertised' that we would be getting 4 DLC's a year?... I've only seen a tweet about it, but nothing else..

corrosivechains

So, if, as those who are defending this decision by ZoS are saying, if all we are complaining about is not getting the content for free...I must ask...where the hell do I get my free sub and/or free crowns? I was under the impression those had a monetary cost attached to them, but with how often this argument that we all just want something for free crops up, I must have missed where I could get a free sub.

Also, it's hilarious people keep calling this an expansion. Even ZoS is being careful not to call it an expansion. It's being touted as a chapter. So trying to compare it to traditional MMO expansions is way over the top.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

I have been subbed since 4/4/14. Before 1T. Before B2P. Defended, supported and was loyal to ESO/Zos.
My sub expires in 6 days. For the first time in 3 years, I am debating not renewing. I have purchased all the DLC's also, so I still have it.
I was SO hyped by the Twitch video w/ Rich & Pete. Then they showed the flip side of the coin. From a marketing point of view, it sucked imo.
Also, the "Warden" class walks that FINE line of P2W.
You get a cash locked item, a new class, with unique abilities, skills and a awesome ultimate, that I can take to base game against other players, and they have no way to equal it w/out cash. This is SO much more than the "Imperial"race being cash locked. Just doesn't set right with me. The whole thing doesn't set right in my mind and heart.
And no, this is not a "I'm Entitled" thread.
This is a long time, day 1 subscriber, lover of ESO, loyal Zos supporter and beta player beginning to worry about direction we are going as a business model and as a whole.
Will I re-sub? Probably. Will I pre order the CE Physical edition. Yes. They hooked me. I'm a TES fan completely. But I still don't have to be happy about how they did it and it defiantly takes away the excitement.
My 2 Septims.
Huzzah!

NewBlacksmurf

Linaleah wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Thought this might help to give people a visual understanding.



The Green ESO+ is where everyone has been and what has been promised.
The Yellow ESO+ is the new, revised version which becomes active on June 6th.
The blues are the present DLC given and the likes of Housing.

The T&C's assure all of the green areas. There is no definition or clarification in the T&C's between different types of content released. It's purely states ALL FUTURE DLC.

MORROWIND IS NOT DLC! We know this. But anything that comes out afterwards IS DLC which by the present terms and conditions entitles all users to access any content added to the "expansion".

As you can see, Morrowind is effectively a paywall - as you can not access the future DLC without it. This IS NOT expressly stated in the T&C's about future expansions or future DLC.

And for those that genuinely think that Bethesda/ZoS will invest time and money to T1 DLC updates that are beyond cosmetic and pointless, is...well...naive.

interesting graphic but this explains your comments very well.

Not sure I'd hang my hat on it all saying DLC wont come to ESO outside of Morrowind but this makes it very clear what some should expect going forward in some ways or parts.

they have already confirmed that all the post morrowind DLC's will be accessible without needing to have morrowind on your account.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3742605/#Comment_3742605

@Linaleah

I don't want to confuse anyone. That comment says that you will continue to get access to future dlc with the restrictions of not purchasing Morrowind so if there is Morrowind dlc in that zone, your sub wouldn't get you access

Right?

how. in a world. did you misread that comment?

it says.. and I literally quote right now

If someone choose not to buy the expansion... but they do subscribe....

will they still get access to future DLC's?

with answer to this being yes. so lets look at the question. the person choses not to buy morrowind. but they chose to stay subscribed. they want to know if they will have acess to FUTURE DLC's and the answer is yes. they will. ergo - the conclusion is, you do not need morrowind to have acess to DLC's released afterwards. it seems pretty clear to me that morrowind will be self contained and will not restrict any other content released before or after it. moreover - give precedent - its very likely that whatever new gear sets may come with it? will be wearable by people who do not have the expansion. they just won't be able to acess morrowind chapter specific zones. which means, whatever DLC will come out, even if its located on VVardenfel - you will be able to acess that DLC's area, just not the rest of the VVardenfel. easiest way to restrict that is by adding travel points - like the carts or ships that exist right now and simply don't give you an option to use them unless you have content they lead to unlocked and not having roads that lead out to the mainland.

@Linaleah

It's not that I misread it. It's that I'm not adding assumptions. I completely understand the context it was asked under, however the answer given did not respond to the context.

They technically are asking if they don't have Morrowind but do have ESO Plus, will they be able to access Morrowind dlc.

Gina did not say yes to all dlc nor did she clarify as another user later comments for clarity. More important Morrowind point blant clarified that you can't access Morrowind without buying it and they later suggest that chapters will come out followed by DLC however it was never clarified if the dlc following a chapter is under the chapter or in the mainland.

Just trying to prevent assumptions that led to the ESO plus reactions recently.

Spidersick

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Hahaha!

Balad

Spidersick wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Hahaha!

Haha, thought it was funny too.

Korah_Eaglecry

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Expansion, DLC, what is the difference? Both include additional content.

There is no actual difference. People are trying to rationalize bull**** so to stand their ground when it comes to defending ZOS.

BadArgonian

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Curious, where did you see this?

FlaviusVoyage

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Expansion, DLC, what is the difference? Both include additional content.

There is no actual difference. People are trying to rationalize bull**** so to stand their ground when it comes to defending ZOS.

Yea, sounds like it.

FlaviusVoyage

BadArgonian wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Curious, where did you see this?

I found it at Amazon.

ol_BANK_lo

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Am I right in saying, that the ESO+ players will still get everything - just not the collection edition addons like the bear, horse, gear, etc....

£40.00 for the expansion - after 2 years of ESO Plus Membership.

Edit1: YOU CAN NOT BUY THIS EXPANSION WITH CROWNS!!!! ONLY CASH.

Edit2: Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror
You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective (Disclaimer - not a lawyer)

Edit3: @ZOS_GinaBruno Has stated there will be an update for ESO+ Subscribers tomorrow. We shall see.


That's it, I'm done. Have fun folks but I'm certainly not paying for this.

That's why they conveniently call it a "Chapter" and not DLC.

They run this company horribly - don't tell people what's going on, change terms along the way, can't make a game that doesn't kick you out every 17 minutes, make changes that make no sense and makes no one happy. I am not sure what their meetings must be like.

Ojustaboo

Ojustaboo wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Could someone provide a link to where ZOS ever promised 4 pay-gated DLCs per year? I keep hearing that claim made, but all I've ever heard them say is 4 "major updates" per year, which they have done.

Matt Firor said it at Quakecon in 2015

00:20:00

Expect to see a named dlc pack of some kind quarterly.

So every 12 weeks or so you will see something named with the cool concept, content, new systems, things like that.

The way it works is if you are an ESO+ member you get all the dlc content included as part of eso+ for as long as you are a subscriber.

You can of course purchase it from the store if you want to

gard wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

I am happy to buy the expansion, however after all this discussion, it's caused me to look hard at my sub, end result I've just cancelled it. Nothing to do with Morrowind being released as such.

I understand that when we sub, we get a whole package, and that package has a value whether we use bits or not, As my guild leader put it, if you sub to Sky TV and don' t watch Sky1, Sky1 still has monetary value.

However, to use the same analogy, if I subbed as all I was interested in is the discovery channels, Sky 1 might well be part of the package, and I might well watch it from time to time as it's there. But if Sky removed the discovery channels, the package would no longer be worth it to me.

With ESO+, I'm not interested in crowns, sure I bought pets, a wedding dress (don't ask) as the crowns were there, but I would never had purchased them to buy these. Gold is too easy for me to make in game anyway so not interested in gold boost. same with XP boost (infact if you look at some of my old posts, I've often requested the option to disable XP as I felt I levelled far too quickly, although 1T cured that problem), if I did want some I can buy roe from traders and make 50%xp pots as often as I like.

That leaves just two things that made it good value and worth it for ME.

The crafting bag is the main thing I subbed for, however I can't justify the yearly cost solely for that, the promise of 4 downloads a year allowed me to justify it in my head.

But looking at it, unless I've made a mistake, last 6 months of 2016 and first 6 months of 2017, I am getting zero dlc. Or to put it another way, any dlc I do get, so do those that don't sub.

So really, I have been complacent paying every 3 months. not paying attention and the ONLY thing it's given me is access to the craft bag.

And now they've changed it so we only get 3 dlc a year (and one paid for expansion), so even if they did deliver what they say, it's a 1/4 less than it used to be.

I've done the sums.

Paying my sub every 3 months is £100 a year. Plus Morrowind expansion £29.99 making £129.99

I buy a 2nd ESO account, even at full price (and can get a lot cheaper) £20.

I log that character in on my 2nd monitor to use as storage as and when I need it.

I buy the Morrowind expansion, £29.99

They release say 2 new dlc in the next year, say 3000 crowns each

So I need to buy 6000 crowns,

5500 crowns are currently £24 and 750 are just under £5

So I've spent £20 on the game, £30 on expansion, £29 on crowns for DLC. Total cost £79

A saving of £50 this year (well more like £60 - 65 as I'm sure I can get ESO for 50 - 75% off somewhere). Not sure if the current price is the normal crown price or if it's discounted, but I will only buy crowns in sales anyway , and of course next year the saving will be £70 as I won't be buying ESO again

@Ojustaboo

If you play on one of the consoles, can't you make as many accounts as you want? For free. Start your own guild of alts.
I think I remember a console player telling me this. I could be wrong though.

Thanks, but I'm a PC player. Not sure how I could log into multiple accounts without having multiple consoles if I was a console player though?

corrosivechains

copy/pasting from what I said in another thread but bears weight in this discussion too:

WoW seems to be the go to for justifying this. You people do realize WoW is setting up a system were WoW tokens, an item which grants you subscription time which you can purchase with in game gold...is being slated to become an item which adds funds to your Blizzard account, which you'll be able to spend on in game services, other Blizzard products, such as new games, expansions, booster packs, new character unlocks for Heroes of the Storm and Overwatch, and anything else they have planned for the future? But yeah keep defending ZoS's decision here like they aren't shooting themselves in the foot with how the market is changing in the opposite direction.

BadArgonian

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

BadArgonian wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Curious, where did you see this?

I found it at Amazon.

Thanks! Very appropriate...

schnooty

I just subscribed to (SWTOR) The Old Republic Online recently, and I can play any of the content with no extra charge. Having a blast with all the new stuff and full voice over content. After work, I'll cancel my subscription to ESO since I haven't played it for the last two months.

Thanks for the good times everyone.

DenMoria

I give up.

DaveMoeDee

sevomd69 wrote: »

Kronuxx wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

To all those people feeling slighted by ZOS... I would suggest reading the ToS... don't want to read that wall of text well I'll TL;DR it for you... ZOS can change anything anytime they want and they don't have to tell you why or even when they are making aforementioned changes... also YOU the consumer can choose not to play THEIR game whenever you want without telling them why or when you will stop playing...

I see all these QQing people jobbing the system by subbing then unsubbing just to get maximum bang for their buck, why should a company that has to make money to pay their employees and keep a viable product be held to a different standard?

We have every right to say we will quit subbing and to say why we will quit subbing. We are not quitting the game. And now ZoS has a decision to make, too. Accept that they will lose some money. Or make it more appealing for people to subscribe. I'm fine either way. But I will quit subbing for now. And choose to buy or not buy content as it comes out.

How do you know they will lose money? You have charted and documented statistics, perhaps based on a large player base survey to provide enough power to support your claim?

Watch this: Accept that they will make money!

Yeah... I don't get this either... I would think that they make up the lost subs with all the new people coming to play because of Morrowind, and from what it looks like in the polls here, most will not be unsubbing...

New people would come to Morrowind regardless. They can still lose money if they permanently lose enough subs.

The real reason they probably won't lose money is that they can now sell one DLC a year for real money. This will bring in a lot of additional revenue. They can spend less resources on the crown store DLC since crowns are very cheap right now (thus the inflation in crown store items and regular crown sales). The ROI will be much higher with the chapters. Plus, a lot of people are addicted to the crafting bag and will give them a pass if instead of 10k crowns worth of DLC a year, there is only 6k.

ForsakenSin

After reading so many threads and looking at so so many arguments , "its DLC" " its not DLC " "it should be free with sub" it should be payable via crowns

As mentioned after reading so so many threads so many arguments people saying they will de sub and leave and both sides have valid points .... i found a simple solution to all of the problems....


" Hey HUNNY !! i know what you can get me for my birthday i want the MORROWIND
Collector's Edition thank you! [/i][/i]