Morrowind...and ESO+

gard

bunnytrix wrote: »

It is a blatant cash grab trading on people's love of Morrowind.

"We don't like to call it an expansion."
No sh** Sherlock, you don't like to call it an expansion because it's not an expansion. An expansion implies lots of new zones,dungeons, tons of new content. It's a DLC that your marketing department has decided to call a new "chapter" to be able to charge the price of a full game for it, and to avoid giving it for free to those who pay a subscription.

One zone roughly the size of Wrothgar, a new class and a couple of battlegrounds ? For 40 bucks? Haha no thanks. I'll pay for a real expansion for another game that will give me 100s of hours of play for less than the price of your new "chapter."

People paid 4500 crowns for a really poorly done elk.

cyclonus11 wrote: »

It's an expansion, not DLC.

No, it's a chapter. get with the program!

Spidersick

Linaleah wrote: »

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Myrrah wrote: »

I'll just repeat what i said in the other thread since i'm baffled by this attitude: no other high profile mmo releases expansions for free to subscribers. They release content patches for free but not expansions.

False, as has already been mentioned.

So am not sure why anyone here would expect it to be free for subscribers?

Because that's what they said the model would be when I decided to pay more money for what others chose to get for free.

Spidersick wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

I guess ESO+ is officially for crafting bags for now on.

so 3 new DLC's per year (2 story/1 dungeon based) as well as all the other perks that include, but are not limited to $15 worth of crowns a month.. do not count?

I do love how you conveniently excluded this part

Because we will be regularly introducing Chapters to ESO, we are going to make a small revision to our content delivery cadence, starting this year. We will continue to ship quarterly updates to the game – each with a base patch that has all the balance, quality of life, and bug fixes that you have come to expect. Additionally, we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter

as well as this part

This year will feature four major events:

Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter

along with this part

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription

it was also confirmed that these DLC's are not dependent on ownership of the self contained chapters.

but sure.. lets ignore all that.

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

Thank you for the "love" part. I merely quote another link and responded that ESO+ is merely for the crafting bags now. I did not conveniently excluded anything. I don't care about decoration or housing, so if you think it is worthy, good for you. For me it is worthless.

And before you can be sarcastic to the author of the quote, I want to say that I understood his/her point of view. The highlighted quote has to do with the explanation of "expansion", and the fact that every year we will have to pay for new content. I got that. The subscription will give you some crumbs per year. That is my opinion.

by saying that ESO is only good for crafting bags, you DID in fact exclude all that other stuff it covers. you know... the yearly DLC's etc. and I have to admire how you stick with that line, by calling 3 DLC's plus all the usual perks - crumbs.

but hey.. you don't actualy have to subscribe! you can just buy those crumbs piecemeal if you wanted. the main thing that is different is that once a year we are going to get much larger content update than they originally planned for. larger content updates cost more money - hence separate charges. but.. and there's the best part. its optional! unlike expansion in games where level increases? you don't actualy have to buy it to stay on par! sigh. meh.

Oh, don't worry about giving advice. I know exactly what to do.

When a dungeon or a tiny story line comes (CRUMBS) I will decide if it is worthy of my money or not. I am perfectly happy with my plan. Thank you very much.


EDIT:

And by the way Homestead (one of the 3 DLCs) will be available to everyone, not just ESO+ members.

here's another quote you seem to have missed

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

and deciding whether each individual piece of content is worth the money is exactly the point. all I'm pointing out that your assertion that ESO plus is only good for crafting bag now? is flat out wrong and disingenuous.

I get to decide what is important to me when I spend my money. When I look at cost/benefit TO ME, Crafting Bags is the only reason I would consider ESO Plus now. If you check other treads today, you would see that a lot of people have the same opinion that I have.

Now, you have yours. Decoration is important to you. That might be something that makes ESO Plus valuable for you. Maybe the smaller, individual contents that might come later too.

I can share my opinion, and that doesn't make me "flat out wrong and disingenuous". You can share yours too for all I care.

gard

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

So much wasted effort on calling an expansion something else.

... anything else, as long as it isn't "DLC"

Spidersick

gard wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

So much wasted effort on calling an expansion something else.

... anything else, as long as it isn't "DLC"

LOL

old_mufasa

Spidersick wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

Okay... I've been expecting this
But... we were promised 4 DLC (or "major updates") / year ... are we still getting a DLC or a major update in Q2/2017, separate from "Morrowind" and included with ESO+ or purchasable in crowns - or even free, like Homestead ?

Good questions. We'll be getting into this more tomorrow - stay tuned for an article on our website that should give some insight.

So what insight did we get today?

That we are in fact not getting 4 dlc's as a ESO plus member this year? was that the insight?

The link is below.

"This year will feature four major events:

Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter"


http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

DUH.. and before they said that ESO + would get 4 dlc's a year... so we are not getting what they said they we were going to get.. as we are only getting 3...

Spidersick

old_mufasa wrote: »

Spidersick wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

Okay... I've been expecting this
But... we were promised 4 DLC (or "major updates") / year ... are we still getting a DLC or a major update in Q2/2017, separate from "Morrowind" and included with ESO+ or purchasable in crowns - or even free, like Homestead ?

Good questions. We'll be getting into this more tomorrow - stay tuned for an article on our website that should give some insight.

So what insight did we get today?

That we are in fact not getting 4 dlc's as a ESO plus member this year? was that the insight?

The link is below.

"This year will feature four major events:

Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter"


http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

DUH.. and before they said that ESO + would get 4 dlc's a year... so we are not getting what they said they we were going to get.. as we are only getting 3...

I would say 2 DLCs, because Homestead is available to everyone.

letsdothedungeonslow

Anyone who still subs after this bombshell is an incurable masochist

Spidersick

gard wrote: »

No, it's a chapter. get with the program!

Hahaha!!!

Linaleah

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Thought this might help to give people a visual understanding.



The Green ESO+ is where everyone has been and what has been promised.
The Yellow ESO+ is the new, revised version which becomes active on June 6th.
The blues are the present DLC given and the likes of Housing.

The T&C's assure all of the green areas. There is no definition or clarification in the T&C's between different types of content released. It's purely states ALL FUTURE DLC.

MORROWIND IS NOT DLC! We know this. But anything that comes out afterwards IS DLC which by the present terms and conditions entitles all users to access any content added to the "expansion".

As you can see, Morrowind is effectively a paywall - as you can not access the future DLC without it. This IS NOT expressly stated in the T&C's about future expansions or future DLC.

And for those that genuinely think that Bethesda/ZoS will invest time and money to T1 DLC updates that are beyond cosmetic and pointless, is...well...naive.

interesting graphic but this explains your comments very well.

Not sure I'd hang my hat on it all saying DLC wont come to ESO outside of Morrowind but this makes it very clear what some should expect going forward in some ways or parts.

they have already confirmed that all the post morrowind DLC's will be accessible without needing to have morrowind on your account.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3742605/#Comment_3742605

Linaleah

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Myrrah wrote: »

I'll just repeat what i said in the other thread since i'm baffled by this attitude: no other high profile mmo releases expansions for free to subscribers. They release content patches for free but not expansions.

False, as has already been mentioned.

So am not sure why anyone here would expect it to be free for subscribers?

Because that's what they said the model would be when I decided to pay more money for what others chose to get for free.

Spidersick wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

I guess ESO+ is officially for crafting bags for now on.

so 3 new DLC's per year (2 story/1 dungeon based) as well as all the other perks that include, but are not limited to $15 worth of crowns a month.. do not count?

I do love how you conveniently excluded this part

Because we will be regularly introducing Chapters to ESO, we are going to make a small revision to our content delivery cadence, starting this year. We will continue to ship quarterly updates to the game – each with a base patch that has all the balance, quality of life, and bug fixes that you have come to expect. Additionally, we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter

as well as this part

This year will feature four major events:

Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter

along with this part

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription

it was also confirmed that these DLC's are not dependent on ownership of the self contained chapters.

but sure.. lets ignore all that.

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

Thank you for the "love" part. I merely quote another link and responded that ESO+ is merely for the crafting bags now. I did not conveniently excluded anything. I don't care about decoration or housing, so if you think it is worthy, good for you. For me it is worthless.

And before you can be sarcastic to the author of the quote, I want to say that I understood his/her point of view. The highlighted quote has to do with the explanation of "expansion", and the fact that every year we will have to pay for new content. I got that. The subscription will give you some crumbs per year. That is my opinion.

by saying that ESO is only good for crafting bags, you DID in fact exclude all that other stuff it covers. you know... the yearly DLC's etc. and I have to admire how you stick with that line, by calling 3 DLC's plus all the usual perks - crumbs.

but hey.. you don't actualy have to subscribe! you can just buy those crumbs piecemeal if you wanted. the main thing that is different is that once a year we are going to get much larger content update than they originally planned for. larger content updates cost more money - hence separate charges. but.. and there's the best part. its optional! unlike expansion in games where level increases? you don't actualy have to buy it to stay on par! sigh. meh.

Oh, don't worry about giving advice. I know exactly what to do.

When a dungeon or a tiny story line comes (CRUMBS) I will decide if it is worthy of my money or not. I am perfectly happy with my plan. Thank you very much.


EDIT:

And by the way Homestead (one of the 3 DLCs) will be available to everyone, not just ESO+ members.

here's another quote you seem to have missed

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

and deciding whether each individual piece of content is worth the money is exactly the point. all I'm pointing out that your assertion that ESO plus is only good for crafting bag now? is flat out wrong and disingenuous.

I get to decide what is important to me when I spend my money. When I look at cost/benefit TO ME, Crafting Bags is the only reason I would consider ESO Plus now. If you check other treads today, you would see that a lot of people have the same opinion that I have.

Now, you have yours. Decoration is important to you. That might be something that makes ESO Plus valuable for you. Maybe the smaller, individual contents that might come later too.

I can share my opinion, and that doesn't make me "flat out wrong and disingenuous". You can share yours too for all I care.

you didn't qualify that its only good for crafting bag - for YOU. you made a flat statement that its all that its good for, period. own up to it.

and like I said. you don't actualy need to subscribe. its the beauty of ESO's subscription model. it IS genuinely optional. you actualy have freedom to decide whether you want to keep subscribing, or not, unlike in some other games where dropping subscription effectively means the game becomes unplayable. depending on your preferences and needs - ESO plus can be a better deal, or just buying DLC's individually can be a better deal. what it doesn't mean is that ESO plus is effectively a flat out worse deal. which is what I'm seeing people state a LOT post announcement.

in any case, I actualy have a theory why they decided to change the cadence of their releases. they liked what they accomplished with Orsinium but they also overextended their resources on it. if they wanted to continue to release larger content releases and be able to actualy afford to do so? they would have to charge for them separately. this is not the first time this has happened in gaming industry. honestly? I'd rather they charge extra and actualy release more content than do what bioware has been doing - repackaging existing content over and over under different labels and calling it new. but its free (ish!) >_>

Spidersick

Linaleah wrote: »

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Myrrah wrote: »

I'll just repeat what i said in the other thread since i'm baffled by this attitude: no other high profile mmo releases expansions for free to subscribers. They release content patches for free but not expansions.

False, as has already been mentioned.

So am not sure why anyone here would expect it to be free for subscribers?

Because that's what they said the model would be when I decided to pay more money for what others chose to get for free.

Spidersick wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

I guess ESO+ is officially for crafting bags for now on.

so 3 new DLC's per year (2 story/1 dungeon based) as well as all the other perks that include, but are not limited to $15 worth of crowns a month.. do not count?

I do love how you conveniently excluded this part

Because we will be regularly introducing Chapters to ESO, we are going to make a small revision to our content delivery cadence, starting this year. We will continue to ship quarterly updates to the game – each with a base patch that has all the balance, quality of life, and bug fixes that you have come to expect. Additionally, we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter

as well as this part

This year will feature four major events:

Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter

along with this part

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription

it was also confirmed that these DLC's are not dependent on ownership of the self contained chapters.

but sure.. lets ignore all that.

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

Thank you for the "love" part. I merely quote another link and responded that ESO+ is merely for the crafting bags now. I did not conveniently excluded anything. I don't care about decoration or housing, so if you think it is worthy, good for you. For me it is worthless.

And before you can be sarcastic to the author of the quote, I want to say that I understood his/her point of view. The highlighted quote has to do with the explanation of "expansion", and the fact that every year we will have to pay for new content. I got that. The subscription will give you some crumbs per year. That is my opinion.

by saying that ESO is only good for crafting bags, you DID in fact exclude all that other stuff it covers. you know... the yearly DLC's etc. and I have to admire how you stick with that line, by calling 3 DLC's plus all the usual perks - crumbs.

but hey.. you don't actualy have to subscribe! you can just buy those crumbs piecemeal if you wanted. the main thing that is different is that once a year we are going to get much larger content update than they originally planned for. larger content updates cost more money - hence separate charges. but.. and there's the best part. its optional! unlike expansion in games where level increases? you don't actualy have to buy it to stay on par! sigh. meh.

Oh, don't worry about giving advice. I know exactly what to do.

When a dungeon or a tiny story line comes (CRUMBS) I will decide if it is worthy of my money or not. I am perfectly happy with my plan. Thank you very much.


EDIT:

And by the way Homestead (one of the 3 DLCs) will be available to everyone, not just ESO+ members.

here's another quote you seem to have missed

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

and deciding whether each individual piece of content is worth the money is exactly the point. all I'm pointing out that your assertion that ESO plus is only good for crafting bag now? is flat out wrong and disingenuous.

I get to decide what is important to me when I spend my money. When I look at cost/benefit TO ME, Crafting Bags is the only reason I would consider ESO Plus now. If you check other treads today, you would see that a lot of people have the same opinion that I have.

Now, you have yours. Decoration is important to you. That might be something that makes ESO Plus valuable for you. Maybe the smaller, individual contents that might come later too.

I can share my opinion, and that doesn't make me "flat out wrong and disingenuous". You can share yours too for all I care.

you didn't qualify that its only good for crafting bag - for YOU. you made a flat statement that its all that its good for, period. own up to it.

Obviously everyone that post comments over here are expressing their own opinion.

Psychodellix

@azurakin said it best

eso members pay for benefits, not development of content. sub is not equal to sub. in a game in which players are not required to sub, and sub only provides benefits, not access to the game, you are not as a subbed member paying for the future development of the game, you are paying for the benefits of being a higher tier customer of the game. think of it as an aircraft airliner. some people pay x for coach class fares, others pay y for first class fares, first class fares board earlier, get nicer seating, more room, nicer food, ect. both get to enjoy the aircraft and both arrive at the destination at same time, some just pay more for more benefits and comfort.that is what you are paying for as a subbed member. get off your high horse, zos requiring you to pay for the expansion is not a reneg of benefits or ripoff. they are not denying you subbed benefits or access to content you already paid for.

maxjapank

I've been a subscriber since launch. And as others have cancelled their subscriptions, I've been happily paying to support a game I love. I have even bought Crown packs in support of the game, too! But I am mostly a pvp player. So though having access to a new area would be nice, it is not necessary for me to continue doing what I enjoy. And...other than the crafting bag, there is really no reason for me to continue paying a sub. So, I will join with others in cancelling my subscription.

If you want me to remain subscribed and pay more money on top of that for new content, then you need to offer me more.

esotoon

Psychodellix wrote: »

@azurakin said it best

eso members pay for benefits, not development of content. sub is not equal to sub. in a game in which players are not required to sub, and sub only provides benefits, not access to the game, you are not as a subbed member paying for the future development of the game, you are paying for the benefits of being a higher tier customer of the game.

This is very true. But what if they fail to deliver on the stated benefits despite still taking your money?

think of it as an aircraft airliner. some people pay x for coach class fares, others pay y for first class fares, first class fares board earlier, get nicer seating, more room, nicer food, ect. both get to enjoy the aircraft and both arrive at the destination at same time, some just pay more for more benefits and comfort.that is what you are paying for as a subbed member.

To use your analogy. Lets say that as part of the benefits of flying first class it is stated that during your flight you will get to see 4 films. You pay for your flight, but they only show two films. At the end of the flight when you get off the plane, they show you a nice 4 DVD collection box that you can buy which includes the 2 films you should have seen on your flight. Would you a) Think, that's great, thank you so much, take my money. Or b) Think, hang on a minute, I've been just been ripped off, and now to add insult to injury you want me to buy this DVD collection box?

gard

vamp_emily wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Merenwen_812 wrote: »

Hoping someone can answer this..
I have ESO+

I want to buy the physical collectors edition (for the statue of course), will I be able to upgrade my current ESO+ with this physical purchase or must I also buy the $40 upgrade on top of the $100 physical copy?

I'm sure someone answered this ( so many posts I haven't read ).

You will not need to pay for the upgrade and physical copy. Unless you have multiple accounts like I do

Sorry I was wrong

After going home and looking at it a little closer, I came to the conclusion that you will have to purchase the upgrade for your existing account. Even if you buy the physical collector's edition.

I was thinking the 5 different editions would be available on the elder scrolls online store, but only the upgrade versions are.

I think you are incorrect. I think you will get a key with the physical edition that can be redeemed using your existing account. That's how the physical eso stuff I have bought worked anyway.

ADarklore

gard wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Merenwen_812 wrote: »

Hoping someone can answer this..
I have ESO+

I want to buy the physical collectors edition (for the statue of course), will I be able to upgrade my current ESO+ with this physical purchase or must I also buy the $40 upgrade on top of the $100 physical copy?

I'm sure someone answered this ( so many posts I haven't read ).

You will not need to pay for the upgrade and physical copy. Unless you have multiple accounts like I do

Sorry I was wrong

After going home and looking at it a little closer, I came to the conclusion that you will have to purchase the upgrade for your existing account. Even if you buy the physical collector's edition.

I was thinking the 5 different editions would be available on the elder scrolls online store, but only the upgrade versions are.

I think you are incorrect. I think you will get a key with the physical edition that can be redeemed using your existing account. That's how the physical eso stuff I have bought worked anyway.

I believe Gina stated in another earlier posting that you would use the key to upgrade your existing account.

ADarklore

esotoon wrote: »

Psychodellix wrote: »

@azurakin said it best

eso members pay for benefits, not development of content. sub is not equal to sub. in a game in which players are not required to sub, and sub only provides benefits, not access to the game, you are not as a subbed member paying for the future development of the game, you are paying for the benefits of being a higher tier customer of the game.

This is very true. But what if they fail to deliver on the stated benefits despite still taking your money?

think of it as an aircraft airliner. some people pay x for coach class fares, others pay y for first class fares, first class fares board earlier, get nicer seating, more room, nicer food, ect. both get to enjoy the aircraft and both arrive at the destination at same time, some just pay more for more benefits and comfort.that is what you are paying for as a subbed member.

To use your analogy. Lets say that as part of the benefits of flying first class it is stated that during your flight you will get to see 4 films. You pay for your flight, but they only show two films. At the end of the flight when you get off the plane, they show you a nice 4 DVD collection box that you can buy which includes the 2 films you should have seen on your flight. Would you a) Think, that's great, thank you so much, take my money. Or b) Think, hang on a minute, I've been just been ripped off, and now to add insult to injury you want me to buy this DVD collection box?

It all depends, did you agree to allow them to make changes at any time for any reason like you did when you agreed to the TOS before you were allowed to play ESO?!?

Tandor

Spidersick wrote: »

Obviously everyone that post comments over here are expressing their own opinion.

Indeed, although some present those comments as if they were indisputable fact.

esotoon

ADarklore wrote: »

It all depends, did you agree to allow them to make changes at any time for any reason like you did when you agreed to the TOS before you were allowed to play ESO?!?

They can make whatever changes they like. However that doesn't make it right or mean the customer has no right to feel aggrieved by it. And in some countries, due to consumer laws, taking money and not providing the promised services for that money is...shall we say, frowned upon. No matter what the T&C's might say.

NewBlacksmurf

Linaleah wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Thought this might help to give people a visual understanding.



The Green ESO+ is where everyone has been and what has been promised.
The Yellow ESO+ is the new, revised version which becomes active on June 6th.
The blues are the present DLC given and the likes of Housing.

The T&C's assure all of the green areas. There is no definition or clarification in the T&C's between different types of content released. It's purely states ALL FUTURE DLC.

MORROWIND IS NOT DLC! We know this. But anything that comes out afterwards IS DLC which by the present terms and conditions entitles all users to access any content added to the "expansion".

As you can see, Morrowind is effectively a paywall - as you can not access the future DLC without it. This IS NOT expressly stated in the T&C's about future expansions or future DLC.

And for those that genuinely think that Bethesda/ZoS will invest time and money to T1 DLC updates that are beyond cosmetic and pointless, is...well...naive.

interesting graphic but this explains your comments very well.

Not sure I'd hang my hat on it all saying DLC wont come to ESO outside of Morrowind but this makes it very clear what some should expect going forward in some ways or parts.

they have already confirmed that all the post morrowind DLC's will be accessible without needing to have morrowind on your account.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3742605/#Comment_3742605

@Linaleah

I don't want to confuse anyone. That comment says that you will continue to get access to future dlc with the restrictions of not purchasing Morrowind so if there is Morrowind dlc in that zone, your sub wouldn't get you access

Right?

OutLaw_Nynx

Can someone please help me understand this

I have ESO+ right now. I don't care the expansion isn't included but other DLC's coming out, are they no long covered under ESO+?

esotoon

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Can someone please help me understand this

I have ESO+ right now. I don't care the expansion isn't included but other DLC's coming out, are they no long covered under ESO+?

You will still get "DLC" for free.

They have changed to model to three DLCs a year (which you'll get free as a subscriber), and one "Chapter" which you will have to pay for,

See here for more details:

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

OutLaw_Nynx

Ah okay. I'm probably going go to get flack for this but it doesn't really bother me. If they canceled us getting "DLC"'s with plus I would cancel.


Thanks for explaining

Linaleah

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Thought this might help to give people a visual understanding.



The Green ESO+ is where everyone has been and what has been promised.
The Yellow ESO+ is the new, revised version which becomes active on June 6th.
The blues are the present DLC given and the likes of Housing.

The T&C's assure all of the green areas. There is no definition or clarification in the T&C's between different types of content released. It's purely states ALL FUTURE DLC.

MORROWIND IS NOT DLC! We know this. But anything that comes out afterwards IS DLC which by the present terms and conditions entitles all users to access any content added to the "expansion".

As you can see, Morrowind is effectively a paywall - as you can not access the future DLC without it. This IS NOT expressly stated in the T&C's about future expansions or future DLC.

And for those that genuinely think that Bethesda/ZoS will invest time and money to T1 DLC updates that are beyond cosmetic and pointless, is...well...naive.

interesting graphic but this explains your comments very well.

Not sure I'd hang my hat on it all saying DLC wont come to ESO outside of Morrowind but this makes it very clear what some should expect going forward in some ways or parts.

they have already confirmed that all the post morrowind DLC's will be accessible without needing to have morrowind on your account.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3742605/#Comment_3742605

@Linaleah

I don't want to confuse anyone. That comment says that you will continue to get access to future dlc with the restrictions of not purchasing Morrowind so if there is Morrowind dlc in that zone, your sub wouldn't get you access

Right?

how. in a world. did you misread that comment?

it says.. and I literally quote right now

If someone choose not to buy the expansion... but they do subscribe....

will they still get access to future DLC's?

with answer to this being yes. so lets look at the question. the person choses not to buy morrowind. but they chose to stay subscribed. they want to know if they will have acess to FUTURE DLC's and the answer is yes. they will. ergo - the conclusion is, you do not need morrowind to have acess to DLC's released afterwards. it seems pretty clear to me that morrowind will be self contained and will not restrict any other content released before or after it. moreover - give precedent - its very likely that whatever new gear sets may come with it? will be wearable by people who do not have the expansion. they just won't be able to acess morrowind chapter specific zones. which means, whatever DLC will come out, even if its located on VVardenfel - you will be able to acess that DLC's area, just not the rest of the VVardenfel. easiest way to restrict that is by adding travel points - like the carts or ships that exist right now and simply don't give you an option to use them unless you have content they lead to unlocked and not having roads that lead out to the mainland.

Elsonso

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Can someone please help me understand this

I have ESO+ right now. I don't care the expansion isn't included but other DLC's coming out, are they no long covered under ESO+?

All DLCs, both before and after Morrowind, are covered by ESO Plus. Only the Chapters (Morrowind) are not.

trbrelinskib14_ESO

This is completely ridiculous.

ESO+ is a way to support this game and in so doing you are in turn given benefits. Those benefits are more value than the $14.99 a month cost for ESO+. You literally get your $14.99 a month in Crown Store Coins with ESO+. That alone covers the cost of ESO+. Then you get the Craft Bag... arguably that alone is worth ESO+. Then you get experience gain on all categories (crafting, character, and trait), Cosmetic options (dyes on costumes), and access to DLC (that's a great money saver as well).

You can try to argue that Expansion and DLC are the same, but they are not period. I have not seen so many negative, critical, entitled and rude people before. You wouldn't be happy with anything it seems. If it's not one thing it's another. I have no idea how you could feel ripped off or betrayed? Do you literally think you should have everything handed to you for free? As stated above, the cost for ESO+ is already less than what you are getting for ESO+...and you want more? Think people... sheesh.

If ZOS was really wanting to be money grabbers, they would really gimp free accounts (reduced storage and in game coin acquisition and make you pay to upgrade those in the Crown Store) like all other free to play games (LOTRO and SWTOR come to mind), but they don't. You can play the game as it was when it was subscription only with no restrictions with a free account. That is pretty darn good. They include a lot of great base game quality of life upgrades in the base game patches as well. ZOS is in no way trying to rip you off. Not even near what I've seen other companies do.

This is like people complaining about Crown Crates... really? They do nothing but give you convenience or cosmetic items. You don't have to buy them to play the game and be successful. And people say ZOS is money grabbing...engage your brain people... Yeah they would be if you had to buy them to be successful in the game... but that is definitely not the case. All the Crown Store stuff is not needed and does not make you more powerful. It's fluff, and people like to buy fluff. If you don't like them, then don't buy them. It's not pay to win.

xeNNNNN

trbrelinskib14_ESO wrote: »

This is completely ridiculous.

ESO+ is a way to support this game and in so doing you are in turn given benefits. Those benefits are more value than the $14.99 a month cost for ESO+. You literally get your $14.99 a month in Crown Store Coins with ESO+. That alone covers the cost of ESO+. Then you get the Craft Bag... arguably that alone is worth ESO+. Then you get experience gain on all categories (crafting, character, and trait), Cosmetic options (dyes on costumes), and access to DLC (that's a great money saver as well).

You can try to argue that Expansion and DLC are the same, but they are not period. I have not seen so many negative, critical, entitled and rude people before. You wouldn't be happy with anything it seems. If it's not one thing it's another. I have no idea how you could feel ripped off or betrayed? Do you literally think you should have everything handed to you for free? As stated above, the cost for ESO+ is already less than what you are getting for ESO+...and you want more? Think people... sheesh.

If ZOS was really wanting to be money grabbers, they would really gimp free accounts (reduced storage and in game coin acquisition and make you pay to upgrade those in the Crown Store) like all other free to play games (LOTRO and SWTOR come to mind), but they don't. You can play the game as it was when it was subscription only with no restrictions with a free account. That is pretty darn good. They include a lot of great base game quality of life upgrades in the base game patches as well. ZOS is in no way trying to rip you off. Not even near what I've seen other companies do.

This is like people complaining about Crown Crates... really? They do nothing but give you convenience or cosmetic items. You don't have to buy them to play the game and be successful. And people say ZOS is money grabbing...engage your brain people... Yeah they would be if you had to buy them to be successful in the game... but that is definitely not the case. All the Crown Store stuff is not needed and does not make you more powerful. It's fluff, and people like to buy fluff. If you don't like them, then don't buy them. It's not pay to win.

Another person who missed the point of why people are angry.

While there maybe some people who want something for free a large amount of people who are angry about it are not angry because they didn't get something for free (which btw regardless of value getting expansion access while using ESO+ is still paying for them and on top of that its temporary assuming your membership runs out), people are angry because things were changed on them literally overnight if nobody had pointed it out they would of gotten away with stealth editing the ESO+ conditions and while they are legally allowed to do so, the way they did essentially threw community good will out the window and it felt like a knife in the pack because people were promised all future content access.

These people have a right to be angry and furious about how this has been handled.
These people have a right to feel betrayed.
These people have a right to feel lied to.

They said nothing about expansions (not mentioning something doesnt automatically exclude it from something).
They promised the player base all future content. Promise broken.
They promised four quatre DLC releases, 2 that no longer count towards ESO+ as homestead is base game and Morrowind is an "expansion". Like it or not they still broke that promise. 1 permanently removed.

Are you getting it yet? its not that it costs money or something is devalued or overvalued its the brazen way in which they did it and then shoved it in our faces after being so loyal to the game, no heads up, no update months back that they would be changing their business model nope, they just dropped it on people. Sorry but thats a *** move and dont try to say it isn't because you know it is. I appreciate your opposing view to this but its mired in high road sentiment which is just mind numbing to read.

You're judging all these people on the basis that they're being whiny unappreciative children, which they are not. Yes you didn't say that directly, but just read what you've said back and think about the tone because its there.

I guarantee you if they had actually said ANYTHING about this a month or so before hand people would not have reacted as aggressively as they have since the announcement.

You ever heard of the saying "hearing what you want to hear" or in this case "reading what you want to read"? after reading what you've posted you are definitely reading what you want to read and not actually reading what is being said.

There are trolls here as well people who will say anything to stoke the fire, be mindful of what you read provided you take everyone's view into account instead of spouting such judgemental crap with that attitude.

Sinthrax

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Sketchy business practice at best with some clever wording there to screw all the people they think they have over a barrel with their craft bag.

Can't use crowns and have to pay for it. Yeah, so loyal customers who have been getting plus for month after month with nothing but garbage in the store to spend those crowns on get slapped in the face.

*sigh*

So glad I deleted my game. Clearly was the right choice to get out from under this bus.

You didn't delete it. No one believes you. You know how many times I heard that before. lol...deleted it. Ya right.

BuggeX

40€ its ok for that Kind of add on, well even 100 would be ok, if zos jsut doesnt sux at balancing classes and sets, they refuse to hotfix broken stuff as Vipern/tramor procs the past 3 mounths, they refused to hotfix other borken skills such as eos or years ago the battswarm dk, so why should someone waste aigan mony to buy mostly a broken unfinished Content cuz zos is to lazy to do ***.

why would a pvp Player buy such a *** and go bgs to see ther is just a single class / playstyle aviable since zos sux

Mic1007

To be fairly honest, I was expecting this. Their previous model wasn't exactly profitable for ZOS (which is clearly shown by the fact that they added those cursed Clown Crates).

I see the expansion as worth buying. So I pre-ordered it. And yes, I am and will continue to be an ESO+ Subscriber. The crafting bag and costume dyeing - along with the 1500 Crowns - are worth it to me to stay subscribed.

Should they have announced a change in DLC Policy before announcing Morrowind? Sure. But they've shown that they like changing things on the fly (again referencing the sudden announcement of the Clown Crates through PTS Patch Notes of all places).

If you feel betrayed, I understand. Lack of information on policy changes has always been a problem with ZOS. Personally, as long as the content they release is fun for me, I'll bite. For example, Homestead will probably completely pass me by. It was fun on the PTS, but the grindiness of the system is not something I am interested in.

Morrowind, just based on its description, seems worth it to me.